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I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?

I dont know... i had a parent die out of no where to (not in a nation wide event like yours of course) and it makes it hard to believe too

Sweetie, I am so sorry for your loss! As for your statement of wanting to believe in God, there is not really anyone who can answer that. I used to want to believe in him, and I mean the God the Catholics follow. But my heart was never comfortable with it, it didn't seem right to me. I found my faith (and Goddess) in Wiccanism.
Sometimes, it can take awhile, and sometimes the answer never comes. Just know that whether or not there is a Heaven or Hell, you're dad will always be with you! I will light a candle for you tonight!

Raven, your text colour is very hard to read against the black background.

most colors are hard to read on black background.
White is the best, red is really anoying on the eyes the rest is no good

ya'll got a black backround?

Yeah, I'm with clickclick! My background is white!

You could believe in whatever you wanted to believe in.. you just chose not to

So god is just a choice inside your mind then? You've just disproven god's existence!

That's what I believe!

Isnt believing something a choice inside your mind? I guess he/she just disproved everything.......

WOW.

that simple after all these years it was that simple

Let's say for a minute I don't believe in my God (the christian one), I would still believe in a higher power and probably go to a faith with a monotheistic way of worship. Because I do not doubt there is a "Higher Power" I just choose to worship it as God.

Even if you don't believe in god you may still have a feeling that god does exist and that he is with you and that your father (bless his soul)is with him right now in heaven.
JM

i believe in God and everything but how do we know that God and Jesus and heaven are all real?....the only clue as to this being somewhat factual are the Bible..but couldn't some guy have just sat down and deciced that he wanted people to remember him forever so created everything....a couple friends and i once spent like a whole week coming up with diferent theories and opinions on all this....really makes you think..

I'm am sorry for your loss but there are all types of signs out there you just have to believe in your heart that HE is there. just like the wind you cant see it, but you can feel the effects of it being here. thats the way it is with GOD you cant see but through HIS works and miracles you know HE is there. i lost my grandfather a couple of years ago and it was hard to deal with his death but HE gave me a comfort that i know HE is there for me. i suggest you sit down one night and talk to GOD, ask him to give you a sign that HE is there for you. it may take a while but he will show you in some way that He is there for you.

oh really, what miracles and please prove it too , faithful belief wont do as proof

Then just believe!! You must have Faith in God. Faith is believing when you don't see. Jesus Loves everyone and he died on the cross for everyone, we just all have the choice to chose him or not.

I also lost my mom, and it's very hard at times, some days are worse than others. We don't always understand everything, and things don't always go are way or the way we think they shld go, but that doesn't mean that God is not here, that doesn't mean he's not hearing us. Its just like if you had a kid, and you gave your kid everything they always wanted, what kid of person do you thk he/she would turn out to me? Most likely a spoiled rotton bratt, that no one likes to be around, cuz they always whinn if things don't go their way. God can't give us everything we want for the exact same reason. We would take him for granted and use him and thats wrng. Everything we go thru in life we get stronger, or weaker depends on how we handle the situation. GOD Is always there to help us thru it, but the problme is we always try to do it on are own.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I guess there's no chance I'LL be saved....

THAT would be up to you, i guess.

You cant believe in something that isnt there.

well religious people do

so you want a miracle. the one that stands out the most to me is, i had cut my wrist on piece of glass i cut one of the main arteries in my wrist. if it had been half a centimetre over i wouldn't be on this forum right now. you my think its just a coincidence but i think god spared me because he has something better in store for me

and half a centimeter below it wouldnt be of any concern at all, but then you probably considered it as a stigmata

A word on miracles in general:

Even if we grant that a "miraculous" event is indeed exceptional enough to warrant an exceptional explanation, it cannot be assumed that this supports theism. We could, for example, postulate that the event was caused by the incredible powers of human minds rather than the incredible powers of a god' s mind. This explanation is no less credible and in fact has the advantage that we know that humans minds exist, whereas the existence of a god' s mind is questionable.

If someone is going to advance one supernatural, paranormal or unusual explanation for an exceptional event, they have to be willing to consider every other supernatural, paranormal or unusual explanation. The question which thus faces the believer is: how can one possibly compare all these different explanations? How on earth can one reasonably support the idea that something occurred because of a god rather than human telepathy or ghosts?

Every religion seems to make claims of miraculous events. If one religion' s claims are right and that religion' s god exists, what is the explanation for all the other miracles in other religions? It seems unlikely that the Christian God was causing miraculous healings in the name of ancient Greek gods at one time.

oh god (no pun intended)

i've had friends use this example to try and get me to believe in god plenty of times.

"i was shot in my arm right here *shows scar* and if it was half a centimeter deeper i would have to get my arm amputated. now how do you explain that? it's a miracle!"

no..it's not. for every time someone gets "so close" to having a deadly issue, there's 10 more people that aren't so lucky as to miss it. and why is that? because god has something less in store for them?

if you can't tell already, i'm an atheist.

you can believe what you want to its your choice i cant make you see the truth. as for me my decision is with god. those people who "weren't so lucky" as you put it, there was a reason that happened maybe god had given them several chances or maybe it was their time.

going back to reiterate on my first post. my grandfather had a minor surgery. the night he was released he suffered from a major stroke the whole right side of his body was paralyzed. you may be thinking this is not good, but it is. i believe that it was his chosen time to go. maybe he had been dealing with some issues and it was a time to get him right. all I'm saying is that there is a reason that every thing happens

I started researching about the creation of the universe and the complexities of DNA. Which lead me to become Deist - "The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation."

The big bang and evolution are very comparable to a computer program. God wrote the code and then let the program run. Of course this would have to be the most advanced program ever with unbelievable error handling.

I just think the array and creation of the universe and the evolution of life on earth is so unbelievably complex that a super-intelligence must have been involved.

I dont believe in an after life but I can easily assume that anything intelligent enough to create the entire universe can easily transport a persons "soul" to someplace other than this universe.

Originally posted by finti
and half a centimeter below it wouldnt be of any concern at all, but then you probably considered it as a stigmata

you realize you a very rude person pissed

as for you KD, I am sure you believe in God. Its just your uncertainty holding you back. don't let that get to you. The Devil likes to trick people make them feel down and low about things. He knows the pain you felt when you lost your dad so he will use it against you. Take what has happened and turn toward God. He loves you, he loves all his children (people) thats why he gave us life, and only he can take it. It was your dads time to go and be with God. I know it hurts and seems like God has turned his back on you, but he hasn't. He never will. Like the foot prints in the sand poem says something like this (I dont remember it word for word) "It was then my child, when you only saw one set of foot prints in the sand that I was carrying you". God will never leave you, you can only leave him. Our strength is in God and Jesus Christ. When I lost my grandma I was so sad and a bit angry at God for taking her the way he did. But I never lost my faith in him. Sometimes we cant see why he does what he does or how it can help us, but that is when we must look at from heavens eyes, see it from his point of view.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
you realize you a very rude person pissed

as for you KD, I am sure you believe in God. Its just your uncertainty holding you back. don't let that get to you. The Devil likes to trick people make them feel down and low about things. He knows the pain you felt when you lost your dad so he will use it against you. Take what has happened and turn toward God. He loves you, he loves all his children (people) thats why he gave us life, and only he can take it. It was your dads time to go and be with God. I know it hurts and seems like God has turned his back on you, but he hasn't. He never will. Like the foot prints in the sand poem says something like this (I dont remember it word for word) "It was then my child, when you only saw one set of foot prints in the sand that I was carrying you". God will never leave you, you can only leave him. Our strength is in God and Jesus Christ. When I lost my grandma I was so sad and a bit angry at God for taking her the way he did. But I never lost my faith in him. Sometimes we cant see why he does what he does or how it can help us, but that is when we must look at from heavens eyes, see it from his point of view.

Stop and think for a minute....give this some real thought...Why do many people who used to believe in god stop?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Stop and think for a minute....give this some real thought...Why do many people who used to believe in god stop?

Because, They think and feel God has turned their back on them or harmed them in some way. Jesus Christ and God would never do that. God sent his only son to die on the cross for our sins! Jesus died for us. do you really think God and Jesus would turn their backs on us in our darkest hour? the answer is No. I don't need to think about your question I know the answer already. People are too taken by their pain to stop and realize God, would never hurt them.

Originally posted by Raven Guardia
Because, They think and feel God has turned their back on them or harmed them in some way. People are too taken by their pain to stop and realize God, would never hurt them.

You feel everyone thinks that?...If so, you're generalizing..

Originally posted by debbiejo
You feel everyone thinks that?...If so, you're generalizing..

I never said all people think that. But the reason most people turn from God is because they feel like he is punishing them, or making their lives worse. God wouldn't do that.

Originally posted by RavenNightstar
Sweetie, I am so sorry for your loss! As for your statement of wanting to believe in God, there is not really anyone who can answer that. I used to want to believe in him, and I mean the God the Catholics follow. But my heart was never comfortable with it, it didn't seem right to me. I found my faith (and Goddess) in Wiccanism.
Sometimes, it can take awhile, and sometimes the answer never comes. Just know that whether or not there is a Heaven or Hell, you're dad will always be with you! I will light a candle for you tonight! That's pretty close to what the catholics believe.

Originally posted by finti
well religious people do How do you know he isn't there? You can't see the wind but it's there.

indirectly you can see the wind, until this god doesnt show up when asked for this god aint there

Originally posted by markie
How do you know he isn't there? You can't see the wind but it's there.

I believe there is something there....there's something in everything...Just not the same as you....No personal something....but still quite cool....I think it like me too..

Originally posted by finti
indirectly you can see the wind, until this god doesnt show up when asked for this god aint there

I really feel sorry for. What ever caused you to feel this way?

god is there and he shows himself to us in many ways all you have to do is seek him out and he will reviele himself to you i no he rvieled himself to me

Originally posted by KidRock
I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?

Believing in god means a positive out-look on life. God means we are important. Here's the low-down of positivity:

Christian God:
You are important, yours and everyones soul has purpose.
You didn't come from apes, you are a brilliant being.
Your soul lives on once you are dead and doesn't dissappear forever.
We are unique, there is no life better than us in space.

Atheism:
....... Any ideas on it being positive?

Atheism(negatives):
We come from apes(that isn't a good thing).
We aren't important, just luck.
There could be many other more intelligent lifeforms out there ready to come and destroy us all.
What's the point in a soul?

Christian God(negatives):
I personally can't think any up....

Originally posted by SlipknoT
You cant believe in something that isnt there.

You can't believe in Oxygen....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Stop and think for a minute....give this some real thought...Why do many people who used to believe in god stop?

Why do people who used to be atheists stop?

Originally posted by gp christ loves
god is there and he shows himself to us in many ways all you have to do is seek him out and he will reviele himself to you i no he rvieled himself to me I never said I didn't believe in something...Something though that is bigger than the thousands of religions.....What kind of god would only choice a few and let the rest to burn for eternity.....It's something bigger than a book, and yes Jesus did try to tell somethings on how to live, so did others.

always the fear equation: fear = control
the God Program puts its followers in a state of fear about upsetting God and missing out on the ticket to paradise. Then it gives them rules to follow to keep God sweet and save them from the place where the fires burn. Dean Hamer, an American molecular geneticist, concluded after comparing more than 2,000 DNA samples that a person's capacity to believe in God is linked to brain chemicals. He explained his theory in The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes. The God Program will be more powerful in some people than others because the realisation that religion is nonsense rewrites the DNA software and dilutes the influence of the men in frocks on others in the same genetic line. It also works the
other way, too, of course.

heaven's the answer for those in places where they don't know about god, if they lived a good life WITHOUT believing because they don't know they will be let through the big gold gates.

Originally posted by Deano
always the fear equation: fear = control
the God Program puts its followers in a state of fear about upsetting God and missing out on the ticket to paradise. Then it gives them rules to follow to keep God sweet and save them from the place where the fires burn. Dean Hamer, an American molecular geneticist, concluded after comparing more than 2,000 DNA samples that a person's capacity to believe in God is linked to brain chemicals. He explained his theory in The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes. The God Program will be more powerful in some people than others because the realisation that religion is nonsense rewrites the DNA software and dilutes the influence of the men in frocks on others in the same genetic line. It also works the
other way, too, of course.

And why do you follow rules altogether? Because there will be a punishment. Atleast christianity gives us morale, I bet if the all the leaders of the world let people do wrong you'd be the first to steal and then murder.

i woudnt murder or steal unless i had to

if there is a god up there, i think he would be appalled at all the religions that has seen his children become mindless slaves

it is called using your head to think and look behind stuff, and dont feel sorry for me, dont need some fundementalist feeling sorry for me, the one you ought to feel sorry for is your kind

Originally posted by finti
it is called using your head to think and look behind stuff, and dont feel sorry for me, dont need some fundementalist feeling sorry for me, the one you ought to feel sorry for is your kind

Why should I feel sorry for my kind? We have God and Jesus Christ in our hearts. Why Should I feel sorry, we have faith in such a great power. you have faith in nothing.

yet your kind aint able to follow the way set
Just because I dont have faith in your god doesnt mean I dont have a faith, faith aint a copyright for christians or any other religious groups

Originally posted by KidRock
I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?

You should only believe something if you truly feel its true or could be true. Not what other people say, not what other people think.

Good luck with finding your religion. There are plenty of them about. I would suggest Buddhism and Hinduism.

Religon should be about perfecting oneself and not having to pay homage to something thats a higher power. This persons dad was murderd by relgious fanatics (Which is what alquaed is). This is the proof that we have ourselves and nothin else. Look to ourselves and well be fine. Stop with the god worship!

MY DAD?!?! Hes alive an well i meant the person who started the thread!

Originally posted by Deano
i woudnt murder or steal unless i had to

if there is a god up there, i think he would be appalled at all the religions that has seen his children become mindless slaves

Well then, that answers the question.

Christians don't have serious standards, we try to be good and there it is, we aren't mindless slaves, we do say "NO" every now and again.

Originally posted by finti
it is called using your head to think and look behind stuff, and dont feel sorry for me, dont need some fundementalist feeling sorry for me, the one you ought to feel sorry for is your kind

Try looking beyond science, what do you find? Something science cannot prove, as this greater presence to too great for material science.

Originally posted by Imagawa666
Religon should be about perfecting oneself and not having to pay homage to something thats a higher power. This persons dad was murderd by relgious fanatics (Which is what alquaed is). This is the proof that we have ourselves and nothin else. Look to ourselves and well be fine. Stop with the god worship!

Ok, so THAT's why you don't believe in god, because you blame ALL religions for ones mistakes. Maybe we should blame atheists for atheist murderers thinking there is no reason to life?

(sorry about the multi-posts )

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Try looking beyond science, what do you find? Something science cannot prove, as this greater presence to too great for material science.

Quantum theories are proving something, but not the Bible stuff...NO..It's much bigger than that.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Quantum theories are proving something, but not the Bible stuff...NO..It's much bigger than that.

Quantum theories? Guess what, god is one of those Quantum theories he's just not explained in the same way.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Quantum theories? Guess what, god is one of those Quantum theories he's just not explained in the same way. Much bigger than what you've been taught...

well if you look beyond science you dont get that great gaping black hole as you do if you do the same with religion

Originally posted by finti
well if you look beyond science you dont get that great gaping black hole as you do if you do the same with religion

Great Gaping Black holes are beyond science too

all things are in truth beyond science no scientist can proof where anything truly came from or how anything truly works

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Great Gaping Black holes are beyond science too

Yeah thats true... but who knows what future discovers will bring to science.

I think that there are things that are beyond science, and scientists know that... there is even a theorem which says that logic cannot answer all the questions.

guess they just have to have faith in it then and then anything goes

(((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))) Rest assured there is a Heaven waiting those who turn to faith in Jesus from sin. God has proven Himself real to me more than once in my life.

If you pray sincerely from your heart and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus with all your heart and are sincerely sorry for your sins (for all have sinned), then He will save you and you will know without a doubt that He is real.

Originally posted by HairyPooper
(((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))) Rest assured there is a Heaven waiting those who turn to faith in Jesus from sin. God has proven Himself real to me more than once in my life.

If you pray sincerely from your heart and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus with all your heart and are sincerely sorry for your sins (for all have sinned), then He will save you and you will know without a doubt that He is real. And those that have never heard? Where do they go?

I was reading some of the messages that some of you have written, and it made me nearly want to cry. I have been a follower of my Savior, Jesus Christ, for as long as I remember. Honestly, I can't imagine life without Him. I have faced problems throughout my life that most people can't imagine. If it weren't for Him, I would not have made it through. He gives me hope and the strength I need to go on. He has forgiven me for the many sins I have committed, and loves me as if they had never occured. He truly is my everything. Everytime I look at the creation of nature around me, I see His fingerprints. Every sunset, every wave of the ocean, every snow covered tree, every animal, every rocky mountain, every cavern and ravine, every detail of the human body... everything is so detailed and magnificent. Who other than God could have created such masterpieces. I can't imagine looking at any of those things without seeing God and knowing that He exists. I can only pray that each of You will come to know God as I know Him. He is not only my Savior, King, and Redeemer. He is honestly my BEST FRIEND. Without Him my life has no meaning. If any of you have any questions I would be glad to offer my answer. Or, you could check out Lee Strobel (a former atheist) and his books, "Case for Christ" and "Case for Faith."

Originally posted by debbiejo
And those that have never heard? Where do they go?

Down the hall and to the right.
They go to hell.

Christians seem to have an easy time sending people to ever lasting torment and pain. They don't sound very enlightened to me.

Originally posted by HairyPooper
(((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))) Rest assured there is a Heaven waiting those who turn to faith in Jesus from sin. God has proven Himself real to me more than once in my life.

If you pray sincerely from your heart and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus with all your heart and are sincerely sorry for your sins (for all have sinned), then He will save you and you will know without a doubt that He is real.


and what of those that have never sinned. {yes there are people who have never wronged any1 else or hurt or wanted/intended to hurt any1 else}

btw, jesus was not god. {if god even exists which is not probable, hell its impossible}

all that rant was crap, good people suffer n bad people prevail, many good suffering people pray and get nuthing, only a faith that god is ENLIGHTENING them, nuthin else. they put their hopes in a heaven which does not exist because they will never get anything in the real world. its all crap, saving isnt worth anything. its not true.

Originally posted by HairyPooper
(((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))) Rest assured there is a Heaven waiting those who turn to faith in Jesus from sin. God has proven Himself real to me more than once in my life.

If you pray sincerely from your heart and call on the Name of the Lord Jesus with all your heart and are sincerely sorry for your sins (for all have sinned), then He will save you and you will know without a doubt that He is real.

I almost wish he hadn't been banned so I could ask him if JK had Harry Potter seek Jesus in the last book would Harry be saved. Or if JK had Dumbledore fight Jesus who would win.What with Dumbledore being in heaven now

Actually it's a lie. I'm happy he was removed. I feel so evil.

Originally posted by KidRock
I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?

My condolences for your loss.
Many years ago my family went through a number of tragedies (deaths, diseases, etc), and a spiritual outlook helped because it provided a tremendous source of comfort and healing. As for those who say, you're fooling yourself or believing in a fiction, I look at it this way: You might as well believe cuz if you're wrong, you'll never know it (for that matter if the atheists are right, they will never know it, either). But in the meantime, you get practical, real-world benefits.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Down the hall and to the right.
They go to hell.

Christians seem to have an easy time sending people to ever lasting torment and pain. They don't sound very enlightened to me.

As a Christian, I long for all people to come to know Christ as I know Him and to never have to suffer one moment in their life. In a fallen world, it is not possible to live a life without suffering. But, amidst the pain and torment, Christ can give you hope, the hope you need to make it through each day and the hope of a glorious future. Whatever past experience you have with so-called "Christians", don't judge us all according to the same measure. Many people claim to know Christ, and really don't know Him at all. If someone truly knows Christ, you will know it by their actions, which will never consist of sending anyone to everlasting torment and pain. They will sincerely care about you, not just getting you "saved," but they will care about your well-being and every aspect of your life, because you are God's child. He created you, He cares about you. As a Christian, I am called to follow in the footsteps of Christ, to be like Him in all ways. That means, that I too care about YOU. I want what is best for you. There is no doubt in my mind that knowing Jesus as your Savior and Friend is the best for you that life could possibly offer.

so if you gonna follow this dude all along ,you are to choose the where to nail you for the crusifixtion or nailing to a tree structure....................... cant wait too hit the first nail

Originally posted by finti
so if you gonna follow this dude all along ,you are to choose the where to nail you for the crusifixtion or nailing to a tree structure....................... cant wait too hit the first nail

1 John 2:2 says, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." Christ, who was sinless, took on the sins of the world. He died for us, so that we will not have to die. I don't have to be crucified, that is why Christ was crucified, for me and for you. He would rather die for me than live without me. He died for me, and for every person that has ever lived. All they have to do is hear the Truth, believe and ask to receive. For those who never get that opportunity, I believe God loves us enough to judge the heart.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
1 John 2:2 says, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." Christ, who was sinless, took on the sins of the world. He died for us, so that we will not have to die. I don't have to be crucified, that is why Christ was crucified, for me and for you. He would rather die for me than live without me. He died for me, and for every person that has ever lived. All they have to do is hear the Truth, believe and ask to receive. For those who never get that opportunity, I believe God loves us enough to judge the heart.

You are so lost. The bible makes it clear, if you are not saved, you will go to hell.

no one died for me.....I dont live in a fantasy world where you take the cowards way out, blaming all your sins on someone that allegedly died so that you could f*uck up... My mistakes are my mistakes and noone elses............ and If I do something wrong all I can do is appology directly to the ones I did wrong, not to a thing

Originally posted by finti
no one died for me.....I dont live in a fantasy world where you take the cowards way out, blaming all your sins on someone that allegedly died so that you could f*uck up... My mistakes are my mistakes and noone elses............ and If I do something wrong all I can do is appology directly to the ones I did wrong, not to a thing

clapping

Self responsibility is the hard way, but the right way.

Originally posted by finti
no one died for me.....I dont live in a fantasy world where you take the cowards way out, blaming all your sins on someone that allegedly died so that you could f*uck up... My mistakes are my mistakes and noone elses............ and If I do something wrong all I can do is appology directly to the ones I did wrong, not to a thing

I'm not really posting on the topic, just pointing something out:

Nowhere in Christianity does it say that you blame your sins on anyone else.

In fact, you are responsible for your own choices. And, you must pay for them.

A person who kills, is not caught, becomes Christian, and is found out many years later will still go to prison.

He would deserve to. He is not delivered/absolved from the consequences of his sin, just forgiven for it.

Jesus doesn't take any of the blame for your sins Finti,.... just your need to suffer for them after you die.


smartass

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm not really posting on the topic, just pointing something out:

Nowhere in Christianity does it say that you blame your sins on anyone else.

In fact, you are responsible for your own choices. And, you must pay for them.

A person who kills, is not caught, becomes Christian, and is found out many years later will still go to prison.

He would deserve to. He is not delivered/absolved from the consequences of his sin, just forgiven for it.

Jesus doesn't take any of the blame for your sins Finti,.... just your need to suffer for them after you die.


smartass

Yes, but the concept of the sin of the father is visited on the son is prevalent in Christianity. For example, because Adam sinned, we are all born into sin.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, but the concept of the sin of the father is visited on the son is prevalent in Christianity. For example, because Adam sinned, we are all born into sin.

True, Shaky....

My point was that Finti calls Christians cowards, thinking that his way of dealing with people head on is more honorable.

A big part of Christianity (those who are practicing it the right way, anyhow) is accountability.

Case in point, as you know, I made alot of mistakes in my life.

I still had to reconcile with the people that I wronged, and seek their forgiveness. Some people I stole from I had to make restitution to.

I prayed, and I believe that I was forgiven by God, but I don't for a second believe that I can just go around and screw up because "Jesus already died for it."

I don't think that there are no consequences to my sinning....

When the body dies, the conscious part of you does not, beliefs will be replaced with knowledge. Believe what you want or need to, just make the beliefs good ones.

I dreamt of finding my father and my brother (they are both dead). Where we were I don't know, but they were so surprised to see me there that we all started laughing.

KidRock, Time heals. You don't get over it, you get used to it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are so lost. The bible makes it clear, if you are not saved, you will go to hell.

I only wish that you would take a moment to look into Christianity. Don't be so quick to form opinions without really looking into it. I don't know where you found that, because I can't think of a verse in the Bible that says people have to be saved by Jesus to go to heaven when they have never even heard the name of Jesus. 1 Samuel 16:7 says, "The LORD looks at the heart." He judges them by a different measure, He sees what we cannot see, He sees the heart.

I do believe that it is completely different for people, such as you, that have heard the Truth and refused to accept it. If you don't accept Jesus as your Savior when He has been revealed to you and shown to you by His people, then I do believe you will end up in hell. It isn't a laughing matter or something to take lightly. Jesus died for you for a reason, that you might have life everlasting. The Father doesn't want any to perish. He wants you to accept His gift... His free gift. Why risk it?

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I only wish that you would take a moment to look into Christianity. Don't be so quick to form opinions without really looking into it. I don't know where you found that, because I can't think of a verse in the Bible that says people have to be saved by Jesus to go to heaven when they have never even heard the name of Jesus. 1 Samuel 16:7 says, "The LORD looks at the heart." He judges them by a different measure, He sees what we cannot see, He sees the heart.

I do believe that it is completely different for people, such as you, that have heard the Truth and refused to accept it. If you don't accept Jesus as your Savior when He has been revealed to you and shown to you by His people, then I do believe you will end up in hell. It isn't a laughing matter or something to take lightly. Jesus died for you for a reason, that you might have life everlasting. The Father doesn't want any to perish. He wants you to accept His gift... His free gift. Why risk it?

I was being sarcastic.

I know a great deal about Christianity, and did not reject it, I embraced it. The more I learned, the more I realized what people were telling me was not in the bible. That was over 20 years ago. I have learned the truth that is in the bible and it is not Christianity. Christianity is a Roman invention. There is no hell outside of this life you live. We all live in heaven, life after life, or in hell, the choice is yours. I feel sorry for you, for you are a slave to a childish, man made god. If you stop looking outside of yourself, you will have the strength to realize your enlightenment. Yes, you and every one else are the children of God, and enlightenment is your nature. We are all asleep, all we need do is wake up.

Originally posted by SlipknoT
You cant believe in something that isnt there.

Then what have I been talking to????

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then what have I been talking to????

I wish I knew.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was being sarcastic.

I know a great deal about Christianity, and did not reject it, I embraced it. The more I learned, the more I realized what people were telling me was not in the bible. That was over 20 years ago. I have learned the truth that is in the bible and it is not Christianity. Christianity is a Roman invention. There is no hell outside of this life you live. We all live in heaven, life after life, or in hell, the choice is yours. I feel sorry for you, for you are a slave to a childish, man made god. If you stop looking outside of yourself, you will have the strength to realize your enlightenment. Yes, you and every one else are the children of God, and enlightenment is your nature. We are all asleep, all we need do is wake up.

agreed. all religions were created near enough during the same time.

have you read ''infinite love is the only truth everything else is illusion''?

i can send it u if u want it

Originally posted by Deano
agreed. all religions were created near enough during the same time.

have you read ''infinite love is the only truth everything else is illusion''?

i can send it u if u want it

Sure, go for it. You have told me about it before.

I've read simular stuff..

Originally posted by KidRock
I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?

Bad things happen. Seriously, just because there is a God doesn't mean your life is going to be perfect but it will be so much better with his help and strength.

Originally posted by Punker69
Bad things happen. Seriously, just because there is a God doesn't mean your life is going to be perfect but it will be so much better with his help and strength.

So, you are still saying that with out something outside of yourself, you are week.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, you, my friend, are rare. I know that there are many people like you, but those who use forgiveness as a white wash to allow then to do as they wish, are like sand on the beach. It is hard to see the shells among the rocks.





Why thankya, thankya Shaky.

It's true.... I'm a member of a dying breed.

Originally posted by Punker69
Bad things happen. Seriously, just because there is a God doesn't mean your life is going to be perfect but it will be so much better with his help and strength. It's the same either way. It's just the out look you have.

Just wanted you to know that I totally agree with that statement, and thought it deserved quoting.

Originally posted by Punker69
Bad things happen. Seriously, just because there is a God doesn't mean your life is going to be perfect but it will be so much better with his help and strength.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I was being sarcastic.

I know a great deal about Christianity, and did not reject it, I embraced it. The more I learned, the more I realized what people were telling me was not in the bible. That was over 20 years ago. I have learned the truth that is in the bible and it is not Christianity. Christianity is a Roman invention. There is no hell outside of this life you live. We all live in heaven, life after life, or in hell, the choice is yours. I feel sorry for you, for you are a slave to a childish, man made god. If you stop looking outside of yourself, you will have the strength to realize your enlightenment. Yes, you and every one else are the children of God, and enlightenment is your nature. We are all asleep, all we need do is wake up.

Where do you come up with this kind of stuff, really? I really would like to know. How is Christianity a Roman invention? How can you believe the Bible, and disregard the parts that speak of hell? How am I a slave to a man-made god? I serve the God that made men... the ONE TRUE GOD that happened to make you. I'm not a slave to him. I serve Him because I love Him, and because He loved me enough to send His Son to die for the sins that enslaved me. In Him, I am free, free from sin and being enslaved to that lifestyle. Being created in the image of God, I do believe that we have more good qualities in us than many people ever realize they have, but I don't understand your whole "enlightenment" argument. And, I'd also like to know how you know that I'm "asleep" and what that could possibly mean. I really am curious about different beliefs. I want to know what other people believe and why they choose not to believe the Truth. I recently took a Worldview class, and it opened my eyes a lot. I didn't realize how many people out there don't believe in God. It actually scared me, and now I want to know more. So, please answer these questions, and let me know if you have any for me. Thanks.

Originally posted by Punker69
Bad things happen. Seriously, just because there is a God doesn't mean your life is going to be perfect but it will be so much better with his help and strength.

I could not agree more. By believing, you give yourself a tremendous source of healing, of comfort in times of loss and suffering ("Footprints," anyone?), as well as having a larger perspective from which to understand life, than if you limited yourself to purely empirical knowledge.

I'll say it again: You might as well believe, because if you're wrong you'll never know it (and if the atheists are right, they will never know it). It's a win-win situation, as long as you are realistic and don't expect your life to be like a hollywood movie.

Believe. You have nothing to lose.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
Where do you come up with this kind of stuff, really? I really would like to know. How is Christianity a Roman invention? How can you believe the Bible, and disregard the parts that speak of hell? How am I a slave to a man-made god? I serve the God that made men... the ONE TRUE GOD that happened to make you. I'm not a slave to him. I serve Him because I love Him, and because He loved me enough to send His Son to die for the sins that enslaved me. In Him, I am free, free from sin and being enslaved to that lifestyle. Being created in the image of God, I do believe that we have more good qualities in us than many people ever realize they have, but I don't understand your whole "enlightenment" argument. And, I'd also like to know how you know that I'm "asleep" and what that could possibly mean. I really am curious about different beliefs. I want to know what other people believe and why they choose not to believe the Truth. I recently took a Worldview class, and it opened my eyes a lot. I didn't realize how many people out there don't believe in God. It actually scared me, and now I want to know more. So, please answer these questions, and let me know if you have any for me. Thanks.

In order for you to understand, you would have to start with an understanding of how different religions in the world relate and what the commonality is. I would suggest stating with this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385418868/002-3888051-1565618?v=glance&n=283155

But you have already closed the door with this statement "I want to know what other people believe and why they choose not to believe the Truth." So, as long as you choose not to look, you will never see.

You guy's are forgetting two important questions

1. If GOD is real then which religion is the "True God" part of?

2.What perspective of God is correct, Monotheism,Polytheism,or Pantheism?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
You guy's are forgetting two important questions

1. If GOD is real then which religion is the "True God" part of?

2.What perspective of God is correct, Monotheism,Polytheism,or Pantheism?

Answers:

1. All
2. None.

So all religions are correct yet there concepts are wrong WTH?!

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
So all religions are correct yet there concepts are wrong WTH?!

Have you ever read the story of the 6 blinds men and the elephant?

Yes, I doubt that a god that askes for animal sacrifices is the same as one who askes for peace?!

Originally posted by KidRock
I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?
KidRock, I just don't get you. Half--no, three-quarters of your posts--are easily classifiable as "ignant redneck" stuff and then you post stuff like this. Serious stuff.

It is not comprehensible.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Have you ever read the story of the 6 blinds men and the elephant? Yes, yes, yes....and I felt the trunk.......God is like this long and protruding out....and I felt the leg, very strong...stompint unto everything.....strong, and I felt the side...oh so wide..no one could ever feel beyond this wall..............we can not know what it is that we do know.....All the blind men thought they knew what god was or thought the higher power was...but it was only there perception of it............just like us.

The Human race are the blind men........trying to figure out what god is..

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Yes, I doubt that a god that askes for animal sacrifices is the same as one who askes for peace?!

Really? You don't believe in the god of the old testament?

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Yes, I doubt that a god that askes for animal sacrifices is the same as one who askes for peace?!

Life and death are part of the mystic law. Religion is something that humans do.

KidRock, you are free to believe in God or not. Thus, I wanted to say one thing people just feel a hunger to believe in something or someone. If you do not wanna believe in God, believe in something that holds in this world that is when you find the peace in you. By the way, I am sorry for your father.

P.S: I am not a priest nor a religion man.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

But you have already closed the door with this statement "I want to know what other people believe and why they choose not to believe the Truth." So, as long as you choose not to look, you will never see.

There is One Way, One Truth, and One Life: Jesus Christ. That is the only door. I opened it 13 years ago, and I never intend to close it, or to search for any other doors to open. No other door is worth opening, for no other door is the Way, Truth or Life. I am only searching for answers as to why some people never even open that door. Understanding why people believe what they do is the first step in helping them believe what they should. I feel like learning more will prepare me better to help them along in the process. It is funny that you used the "door" metaphor, because it happens to be a Biblical metaphor. Matthew 7:7 says, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." I challenge you to diligently do those things. Ask, seek, and knock. There is only One Truth to find, and I guarantee if you truly search you will find Him. Also, Revelation 3:20 says, "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." Listen for His voice.

You mentioned, also, that I choose not to look. The truth is, I have looked, and God showed me the truth. I see His fingerprints in everything good in the world. I see His light shining through the darkness. I see joy in the faces of orphans and slaves to the land (in the Dominican Republic and Haiti, specifically), a joy that can only come from Jesus. I see beauty and forgiveness where others see pain and hatred. Believe me, I have seen. I long for others to see as the Lord has allowed me to see. I challenge you to open your eyes to God, He is all around you. Look for Him. See Him. I do, and I am still looking for I want to see Him more and more, every single day.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
There is One Way, One Truth, and One Life: Jesus Christ. That is the only door. I opened it 13 years ago, and I never intend to close it, or to search for any other doors to open. No other door is worth opening, for no other door is the Way, Truth or Life. I am only searching for answers as to why some people never even open that door. Understanding why people believe what they do is the first step in helping them believe what they should. I feel like learning more will prepare me better to help them along in the process. It is funny that you used the "door" metaphor, because it happens to be a Biblical metaphor. Matthew 7:7 says, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." I challenge you to diligently do those things. Ask, seek, and knock. There is only One Truth to find, and I guarantee if you truly search you will find Him. Also, Revelation 3:20 says, "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." Listen for His voice.

You mentioned, also, that I choose not to look. The truth is, I have looked, and God showed me the truth. I see His fingerprints in everything good in the world. I see His light shining through the darkness. I see joy in the faces of orphans and slaves to the land (in the Dominican Republic and Haiti, specifically), a joy that can only come from Jesus. I see beauty and forgiveness where others see pain and hatred. Believe me, I have seen. I long for others to see as the Lord has allowed me to see. I challenge you to open your eyes to God, He is all around you. Look for Him. See Him. I do, and I am still looking for I want to see Him more and more, every single day.

I know a great deal about Christianity and I know God as much as you do. I like what I read, your faith is strong and that strength brings me great happiness. Faith does not require proof. I will tell you a secret; faith is the covenant. I cannot help you on the path you have chosen. I wish you great happiness.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Really? You don't believe in the god of the old testament?

The YHWH was a god of peace?!

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
The YHWH was a god of peace?!

What does YHWH stand for, You Hairy Wild Hero?

No, really...

It's a tetra gram for Yahweh the name of the GOD in the old testament another translation is Jehovah.

Original Hebrew didn't have vowels.......and YHWH...was not a god of peace....It was a vengeful god.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Original Hebrew didn't have vowels.......and YHWH...was not a god of peace....It was a vengeful god.

That's what I said, And y is sometimes a vowel.

YHWH....was a mean mean god......

Hell yeah... but that's the GOD in the bible and that's the reason I'm no longer catholic.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Hell yeah... but that's the GOD in the bible and that's the reason I'm no longer catholic. Yep, and is different from what a real god would be. And that is why I am no longer a Christian.

But what is the "True God" I'm a pantheist but I also believe in Lesser dieties or beings with supernatural powers as lame as that sounds, My theory is that YHWH is one of those lesser material gods at least that what gnostic christians believed too bad for them they were wiped out.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
But what is the "True God" I'm a pantheist but I also believe in Lesser dieties or beings with supernatural powers as lame as that sounds, My theory is that YHWH is one of those lesser material gods at least that what gnostic christians believed too bad for them they were wiped out. I hear ya with the gnostics...they had some interesting beliefs...some good ones too.

For me a real god wouldn't care if you believed or not, it would be beyond human emotion for neediness.

I have myself had trouble understanding the ways of God, as written in the Old Testament. I firmly believe that God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, and always. So, the Old Testament YHWH is the same as the New Testament Father. God is God. It helped me to realize that God is not mean or vengeful... He is Just. He hates sin. It hurts Him. His definition of justice is far beyond our understanding of the word. His ways are beyond our ways. There are somethings about God that aren't meant to be understood. That is why He is God, and we are humans. When we die and meet Him, everything will make sense, for we will finally see as He sees.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I have myself had trouble understanding the ways of God, as written in the Old Testament. I firmly believe that God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, and always. So, the Old Testament YHWH is the same as the New Testament Father. God is God. It helped me to realize that God is not mean or vengeful... He is Just. He hates sin. It hurts Him. His definition of justice is far beyond our understanding of the word. His ways are beyond our ways. There are somethings about God that aren't meant to be understood. That is why He is God, and we are humans. When we die and meet Him, everything will make sense, for we will finally see as He sees.

How can God hurt?
How can God hate?
How can God be a he?

Any god that can be hurt, or hate or is a he, is a man made god. Think it though again. We can never understand God. That means the bible can not give you an understanding of God. Anything we think we understand about God is incorrect.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How can God hurt?
How can God hate?
How can God be a he?

Any god that can be hurt, or hate or is a he, is a man made god. Think it though again. We can never understand God. That means the bible can not give you an understanding of God. Anything we think we understand about God is incorrect.

In an imperfect, fallen world, we cannot understand or fully know a perfect and sinless God. It is only through revelation that we can know Him at all... He reveals bits and pieces of who He is to us. It is enough for me. I don't doubt Him at all. I doubt myself and my ability to understand God who is so perfect and magnificent and majestic and who would loved me enough to send His Son to die for me. I never doubt Him. He is not man-made. We are God-made. Don't you get it? He made us, not the other way around. We were made in His image. I understand enough about God to never doubt Him and to always try to live for Him. I know that when the time comes, He will reveal more to me. He reveals what He knows we can handle. The more we can understand, the more He reveals. The more we seek, the more we find. I'm seeking Him everyday, wanting to know more about Him. And, everyday, He shows me more. God is so amazing it takes more than a lifetime to truly know and understand. He is indescribable in human words, unfathomable in the human mind's capacity. He is God. Perfect, holy, and every good word in any dictionary or language ever written wouldn't do Him justice or describe Him properly.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
In an imperfect, fallen world, we cannot understand or fully know a perfect and sinless God. It is only through revelation that we can know Him at all... He reveals bits and pieces of who He is to us. It is enough for me. I don't doubt Him at all. I doubt myself and my ability to understand God who is so perfect and magnificent and majestic and who would loved me enough to send His Son to die for me. I never doubt Him. He is not man-made. We are God-made. Don't you get it? He made us, not the other way around. We were made in His image. I understand enough about God to never doubt Him and to always try to live for Him. I know that when the time comes, He will reveal more to me. He reveals what He knows we can handle. The more we can understand, the more He reveals. The more we seek, the more we find. I'm seeking Him everyday, wanting to know more about Him. And, everyday, He shows me more. God is so amazing it takes more than a lifetime to truly know and understand. He is indescribable in human words, unfathomable in the human mind's capacity. He is God. Perfect, holy, and every good word in any dictionary or language ever written wouldn't do Him justice or describe Him properly.

Stop! go back and read what I wrote again and again until you see what I wrote. You continue to act like you understand God.

I did not say that God was man made I said "Any god that can be hurt, or hate or is a he, is a man made god." You keep saying "he" so, to me, that means you are talking about a man made god.

I think all you are doing is repeating what you have heard. Have you ever thought about it with your own thoughts?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Stop! go back and read what I wrote again and again until you see what I wrote. You continue to act like you understand God.

I did not say that God was man made I said "Any god that can be hurt, or hate or is a he, is a man made god." You keep saying "he" so, to me, that means you are talking about a man made god.

I think all you are doing is repeating what you have heard. Have you ever thought about it with your own thoughts?

First of all, God is our Father. I don't know about you, but I've never known a father who wasn't also a "He." We were created in His image, so it makes sense for us to call Him using a term such as "He." I've also said that human words can't perfectly describe Him... He is one of those words. It doesn't describe God in His fullness, that is why I at least try to always capitalize it, so it at least stands out among ordinary human pronouns.

Until you know more about me, don't tell me all I'm doing is repeating what I've heard. I've traveled to other countries and seen the fingerprints of God there just as much as I see them here. God is everywhere. I've searched for Him. I don't just listen to other people and automatically believe what they say. I've studied it. I've read books written by aetheists who have come to know God by simply trying to disprove Him. I am in a Bible College, as we speak, learning the truths and depths of the Bible that most people overlook. I listen to preachers and professors and theologians, but I allow God to reveal to me what is truth, and which of those people don't know His Word or Ways at all, thus teaching what is false and speaking lies. I spend time alone with God, time spent in prayer and listening for His gentle voice and observing His creation. It's not something to take lightly. I am not the kind of person to just believe anyone. I have my own thoughts and opinions, probably more than most any people do. But, I try to form my opinions and thoughts to those of Christ, becoming more like Him.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
First of all, God is our Father. I don't know about you, but I've never known a father who wasn't also a "He." We were created in His image, so it makes sense for us to call Him using a term such as "He." . God is not a he or a she. It has no sex. Just as in scripture it is called Elohim. Meaning no gender.

And what about God? Is God exclusively male? The answer is obvious. God is spirit; God has no physical body. God is omnipresent, meaning that there is no place, no time, and no concept from which God is absent. God is simultaneously on the other side of the Universe, 30 billion light-years away, and God is inside all the atoms of your body. God is inside the protons and electrons, the quarks, the strings of which you are composed. God is inside neutrinos. God suffuses the Universe even more thoroughly than water suffuses a goldfish bowl. Because God has no physical body, God has no penis and no uterus. You may refer to God as male (Lord, how can you stop?), but to refer to God as female is exactly as valid.

Originally posted by debbiejo
God is not a he or a she. It has no sex. Just as in scripture it is called Elohim. Meaning no gender.

And what about God? Is God exclusively male? The answer is obvious. God is spirit; God has no physical body. God is omnipresent, meaning that there is no place, no time, and no concept from which God is absent. God is simultaneously on the other side of the Universe, 30 billion light-years away, and God is inside all the atoms of your body. God is inside the protons and electrons, the quarks, the strings of which you are composed. God is inside neutrinos. God suffuses the Universe even more thoroughly than water suffuses a goldfish bowl. Because God has no physical body, God has no penis and no uterus. You may refer to God as male (Lord, how can you stop?), but to refer to God as female is exactly as valid.

So, my question to you is: is it better to call God "It" than "He"? God is the Father, how can you take Elohim out of the Biblical text and not Abba Father? You can't pick and choose. God is beyond gender, yes, but He is the Father, at the same time. I know God is everywhere, I won't argue you on that. I firmly believe that. He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, etc. I also believe that human language isn't suffice when it comes to naming God. That is why the early believers called Him YHWH. His name is too mighty to speak. That is why they left out the vowels. He is beyond understanding. The only things that I can understand at all are through His revelation: Bible, Events, Nature, Jesus, Intuition... those are His ways of revealing things to us. Why does it offend you so much that I best describe God by using the term "He" or "Father" or "Lord" or even "God." I will gladly refer to Him as YHWH if that would better suit you. It is more proper, that is for sure, but it isn't my native language. It makes more sense for me to use the terms that God has revealed to me to use than an ancient name that the Hebrews used. But if it offends you so terribly, God is YHWH, and I don't have a problem with calling YHWH YHWH.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
So, my question to you is: is it better to call God "It" than "He"? God is the Father, how can you take Elohim out of the Biblical text and not Abba Father? You can't pick and choose. God is beyond gender, yes, but He is the Father, at the same time. I know God is everywhere, I won't argue you on that. I firmly believe that. He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, etc. I also believe that human language isn't suffice when it comes to naming God. That is why the early believers called Him YHWH. His name is too mighty to speak. That is why they left out the vowels. He is beyond understanding. The only things that I can understand at all are through His revelation: Bible, Events, Nature, Jesus, Intuition... those are His ways of revealing things to us. Why does it offend you so much that I best describe God by using the term "He" or "Father" or "Lord" or even "God." I will gladly refer to Him as YHWH if that would better suit you. It is more proper, that is for sure, but it isn't my native language. It makes more sense for me to use the terms that God has revealed to me to use than an ancient name that the Hebrews used. But if it offends you so terribly, God is YHWH, and I don't have a problem with calling YHWH YHWH. You can call god father or mother because it really doesn't matter. So why not just call it god. AS far as Jesus is concerned he referred to god as father for familiarity for us. In the OT the holy spirit was referred to as feminine. The spirit of God Ruach Elohim (Genesis 1:2) is a feminine noun. So is the Shekhinah -- the Presence of God. Does that mean the Spirit of God and the Presence of God are female?

Originally posted by KidRock
I wanna belive in god but for some reason I just cant.. My dad died on 9/11 and I guess I just wanna think that somehow there is a heaven and a place up there and a god, but when I just think of all the facts and everything its just hard imagining there being a heaven, what makes you all belive that there is a heaven and a god?

The bible is a history book, just like the ones in school. You have never personally seen any proof of god, but probably never seen any personal proof of Isaac Newton.
To be honest I ignore facts because sometimes, as many people don't notice, there is no such thing as facts if the creator of the universe is in control.
To believe in god is to believe that your life REALLY matters, instead of being some random glitch in the universe.
That is why I believe in god and heaven. I'd rather believe in god and believe that I will be in heaven than know/believe that i am just an evolved monkey.

Originally posted by MicahLynn
I have myself had trouble understanding the ways of God, as written in the Old Testament. I firmly believe that God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, and always. So, the Old Testament YHWH is the same as the New Testament Father. God is God. It helped me to realize that God is not mean or vengeful... He is Just. He hates sin. It hurts Him. His definition of justice is far beyond our understanding of the word. His ways are beyond our ways. There are somethings about God that aren't meant to be understood. That is why He is God, and we are humans. When we die and meet Him, everything will make sense, for we will finally see as He sees.

Just He killed a man for ejaculating on the ground, And had rules enforcing slavery what GOD are you talking about

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Just He killed a man for ejaculating on the ground, And had rules enforcing slavery what GOD are you talking about

Are you sure it was slavery, or was it DISCIPLINE?!

Without discipline the world would be in total chaos!

Originally posted by Mr Brightside
Are you sure it was slavery, or was it DISCIPLINE?!

Without discipline the world would be in total chaos!


Exodus 21:2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 21:3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 21:4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

It's slavery...

Originally posted by MicahLynn
So, my question to you is: is it better to call God "It" than "He"? God is the Father, how can you take Elohim out of the Biblical text and not Abba Father? You can't pick and choose. God is beyond gender, yes, but He is the Father, at the same time. I know God is everywhere, I won't argue you on that. I firmly believe that. He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, etc. I also believe that human language isn't suffice when it comes to naming God. That is why the early believers called Him YHWH. His name is too mighty to speak. That is why they left out the vowels. He is beyond understanding. The only things that I can understand at all are through His revelation: Bible, Events, Nature, Jesus, Intuition... those are His ways of revealing things to us. Why does it offend you so much that I best describe God by using the term "He" or "Father" or "Lord" or even "God." I will gladly refer to Him as YHWH if that would better suit you. It is more proper, that is for sure, but it isn't my native language. It makes more sense for me to use the terms that God has revealed to me to use than an ancient name that the Hebrews used. But if it offends you so terribly, God is YHWH, and I don't have a problem with calling YHWH YHWH.

Like someone else said, God is a spirit, so He's not female nor is He male. We, as humans distinguish a difference between "Father" meaning a male, and "Mother" meaning female. But it really doesn't matter. God can be a mother, father, brother, sister, healer, whatever you need Him to be. Jesus referred to God as "Father" like in the Lord's prayer, which to me, was Jesus introducing a new way of praying to God.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Exodus 21:2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 21:3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 21:4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21:21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

It's slavery...
You've proven a good point
To be a faithful slave would probably ensure you a place in heaven, because you were a servant So maybe that kind of evens it out.

Paul in Scripture said we are slaves to Christ!........Though would mean "Under him", though Jesus never said we were under him...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Paul in Scripture said we are slaves to Christ!........Though would mean "Under him", though Jesus never said we were under him...
That is right, yet wrong. You can be a slave and not be beneath anyone, like Jesus was himself, he was a servant but was the son of god himself. Yes, we are slaves to christ, yes Jesus is a slave to us.

That is what The Bible is about, 2 things:
1. The Creator/The stories related to him.
2. Keeping each other happy by looking after and treating each other nicely, no matter how bad the other person is.

good thing I was liberated from this christian slavery then

Originally posted by Mr Brightside
That is right, yet wrong. You can be a slave and not be beneath anyone, like Jesus was himself, he was a servant but was the son of god himself. Yes, we are slaves to christ, yes Jesus is a slave to us.
.
No, it wouldn't be called a slave, it would be called an equal.

Originally posted by debbiejo
No, it wouldn't be called a slave, it would be called an equal.
Yes, but no, because some people who are equal are not treated like it by others! So they say it like that so they understood! in other words, we are a servant to each other as we should treat each other as though the other person is more important than yourself, even though he/she will treat you the same.

Is this a paradox????....Yes, but no??

How do you mean paradox?