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wholl win?
i think kuja coz of his ultima spell

Hmm this actually looks bad for Sephiroth. Trance Kuja had enough power to blow up Terra, whereas Sephy needed Meteor. However there are more proofs of what Seph was capable of before Aeriths prayer took effect in the promised land. I hate to say this but I think Seph may be outclassed in power here. The win goes to Kuja but if Seph used the black Materia I call it a draw.

Please no more of these vs. threads!

They're kind of dumb...

But anyways Trance Kuja would win..

why?

Because first off he can fly...if we're talking about the regular human Sephiroth "the one without wings" he can't fly and would be screwed because trance Kuja has an extremely large amount of power. However, if Sephiroth could hold out until Kuja's trance was over...the whole thing could be turned around...

i agree kuja has seph beat but in if it were all the forms of seph then i say seph would have won....

I like VS threads.. I think they are fun...theres always one in the crowd though that doesn't like them....

I agree advent, VS threads make for good debate. But on the subject Kuja has to much raw power for Seph to handle. Sephiroth needed the black materia to cause extreme damage to a planet. Kuja just use his Trance Limit. Oh and Aska, play FFVII again and you'll see human Sephiroth was far more powerful than his monster forms. Normal Sephy held back Holy, the planets ultimate weapon, Reverse and Seraph Sephiroth couldn't beat a small group of fighters.

So obscure... rolleyes4

What's obscure?

you have a good point...

Who does?...I'm confused

nvm.....but if you think about it seph is only human.....kuja was like some mystical magican monkey dude....any way seph is cooler...but Kuja was hotter..in my opinion...

Was Kuja a girl or a guy? It was kinda confusing.

a guy...(I Think..)

...Erm..a...erm...guy?

yeah... a guy.....he said that he was zidane's bro didnt he?

I don't know. He had a VERY effeminate outfit. He was wearing a thong for god's sake!

So? He might just like thongs.

FF7 Sephiroth flew after he killed Aerith.



I think Sephiroth is part Cetra, so he's not completely human. He is stronger than the soldiers who were pumped with Jenova cells during the experiment. Kuja looked like a female belly dancer and I had to take a cold shower once I found out it was a guy.

I'm not sure what "trance" Kuja is referring to, but forms beyond his first incarnation should most likely handle a standard Sephiroth.

That wasn't the real Sephiroth radioboy. He was still trapped in a large materia crystal at the Northen Continent. The thing that killed Aerith was either one of the clones Sephiroth and Jenova controlled or an astral projection. Also Seph is 100% Human. he's stronger because he had more Mako and J cells fused to him than any other. Jenova just tricked him into thinking he was Cetra.

seph would str8 win he would just use supa nova and BAM!! hes dead
or he could just confuse kuja or somthing oh and kuja was a man lord ryugen seph was still cetra coz any1 who has the cells is a cetra

Special spells like Meteor took time, but with Trance Kuja, a wave of his hand he emitted a beam that easily took down Terra in moments.

Originally posted by patey
seph would str8 win he would just use supa nova and BAM!! hes dead
or he could just confuse kuja or somthing oh and kuja was a man lord ryugen seph was still cetra coz any1 who has the cells is a cetra

No patey Geneticly Sephiroth is a human. If you were correct everyone in SOLDIER would be Cetra, they aren't. If you were correct the Sephiroth clones would be Cetra, They're not. If you were correct Cloud would be Cetra, he isn't. All of them are enhanced humans with the cells of Jenova. (Who isn't a Cetra anyway) And Mako energy. Aerith is the last Cetra period. Also Supernova couldn't kill Cloud, it ain't killing Kuja.

First of all Kuja is a legend his power is grand......unfortunately yes he does wear some outlandish stuff but still he is very powerful. Even when he wasnt tranced he had enough power to survive bahamut with only a scratch. So obviously Kuja would pawn Sephiroth

But wait a minute if we r talkin about sephiroth he has some power i must admit....i mean cmon he was damn hard to beat in kingdom hearts. But in the end he was quite weak cus it was only a 1 on 1.....

Oh btw ppl i am a serious ff9 fan so any questions about the game just ask

I'm not really a big FFIX fan, I found it a bit dull, but unfortunatly Kuja will take the match I think we all know that now.

How could u find it dull? It has a great story behind it and the last boss actually provides a challenge.....did u ever fight Ozma cus if u did than u wouldnt think the game was dull...

Oh and having never played ff7 i dont really know much about sephiroth...but i know kuja could kick his butt any day!

7 is better than 9. 4 and 5 still rule though. And 4+5=9... So that makes Kuja... A gay robot. Done. (Red vs Blue RULES)

sephiroth would sooo win. off all the ff bosses i fought he was the most difficult. i only beat him the other day.

That could just be the difficulty of the game though. As far as I have heard (never actually played FF9, heard it was pretty terrible, sorry fourwinters), Kuja has much larger showings of power than Sephiroth.

Trance Kuja was easy to beat. Sepiroth I barely defeated him the first time around.

Ultimecia (FF8) whould beat both of them.

Ultimecia sucks monkey balls!! Zeromus would blast her away.

well its been a while sinse i hav checked this thing and yeah i hav finally played and killed sephiroth...yes hes a tough one but if u think about it u dont have moves like knights of the round in 9 or omni slash so u cant take kuja down in 2 moves!!!! but i suppose hes a bit weak i mean all u need to do is be above lv 70, have auto haste and regen on and u can own him. BUT KUJA IS STILL COOL....

Originally posted by patey
seph would str8 win he would just use supa nova and BAM!! hes dead
or he could just confuse kuja or somthing oh and kuja was a man lord ryugen seph was still cetra coz any1 who has the cells is a cetra

wrong kuja would counter supernova with holy. i think kuja would win becuase of the massive spells he can cast and sephiroth's dark spells wont protect him becuase like i said he'd counter it with holy and after a certain amount of dmg inflicted to kuja he will get more then one turn to attack and seeing sephiroth's power probally cast auotomne,sendral, mega auotomne and especially holy. and when (if) sephiroth beats him well if he makes it through kuja witch is possable but he'll be near death kuja will use what he has left in power to cast ultimia wich would lead to a draw cause that would finish him off but i still think kuja cause of his spells and the double cast.

Originally posted by fourwinters
well its been a while sinse i hav checked this thing and yeah i hav finally played and killed sephiroth...yes hes a tough one but if u think about it u dont have moves like knights of the round in 9 or omni slash so u cant take kuja down in 2 moves!!!! but i suppose hes a bit weak i mean all u need to do is be above lv 70, have auto haste and regen on and u can own him. BUT KUJA IS STILL COOL....

kewl killing seph can be tough depending on lv. the very last fight with sephiroth is very easy though. if he gets first hit then cloud will instanally counter and kill seph (after u beat him its funny to see that he struggles to slash u once more but doesnt have the energy)

Originally posted by Dizzle
That could just be the difficulty of the game though. As far as I have heard (never actually played FF9, heard it was pretty terrible, sorry fourwinters), Kuja has much larger showings of power than Sephiroth.

about the terrable story it wasnt bad story but most people critisize it cause of the cheebie graphics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Kuja.JPG

No offense to anyone but...this is the most feminine looking man I've ever seen in my life. I mean...just look at him from the waist down!

But seriously, Kuja would win this fight. He easily has more power than Sephiroth does, not to mention is a very powerful sorcerer. There is much more about Kuja that I don't know, but I can find out more information about him on the web.

I have to be one of the biggest sephiroth fans in the world but i have to disagree.

sephiroth:

1. sephiroth is a demi god.

2. sephiroth does have good power.

3. sephiroth's mother (J.E.N.O.V.A) was a centra (basically a god) and had amazing power.

Kuja:
not anything special but a weapon orgainizer but has the power of the god.

Kuja would win

Kuja:

1. power of a god


thats it kuja would win against sephiroth.

You know you could've put all that into one post.

Also, I don't see where it says Sephiroth is a demi-god. He had a plan that would've made him become one but it failed. He would've achieved his goal if it wasn't for the cast of Final Fantasy 7 who stopped him.

I've been told before that I'll get owned if I were to debate here. So I'm putting that theory to the test, hopefully you guys can put up a better debate then the guy who told me to come here. So here it goes.

Sephiroth would win, he's got several, several ways to win. For one, he's shown just as much skill in Advent Children as Kuja showed in Final Fantasy 9. This is supported by the fact that he completely outmatched Cloud in every aspect. You can check the Ultimania Omega Strategy guide for confirmation on that.

I've seen a lot of people saying that Sephiroth had to use Meteor to destroy a planet whereas Kuja did it with an Ultima Spell. I say big whoop. Sephiroth never wanted to destroy gaia, his plan was to damage it enough to create an influx of energy so that he may absorb it and become a God. If he wanted to destroy the planet he more then could have, once again I'm supported by Advent Children. In the movie he said that he wished to "sail the cosmos using this planet as a vessel, as my mother did before me"

Looking back into FF7, Jenova came from the sky on what appeared to be a meteorite, however she actually destroyed the planet she was on and used it as a ship. Sephiroth is more then capable of doing the same.

Sephiroth is also shown to be able to control the body of anything that has Jenova Cells in it, Cloud and Kadaj are two very good examples. Cloud has a minimal amount of J-Cells whereas Kadaj is full of them. Seph easily controlled both of them. He even fully took control of Kadaj's body, going so far as morphing his appearance. (an ability that Jenova itself is shown to have when she took the forms of the dead Cetra and disguised herself as Sephiroth at the beginning of the game)

He was shown in Advent Children to be able to summon forth the corrupted (Negative) lifestream, this lifestream is the planet's energy that has been defiled with Geostigma, which is caused when the body rejects Jenova Cells. The lifestream itself is deadly, proven in the On the Way to a Smile: Case of Denzel story where thousands of people in Midgar were killed on contact. But it holds an even more sinister purpose, it can spread J-Cells. It infects anybody close to it with J-Cells, eventually causing geostigma in the body.

But the important thing is that he can use the Negative Life Stream to infect Kuja with J-Cells, as much as he wants, and then from there he can control Kuja and turn him a Sephiroth Clone or even better he could take full control over Kuja and take over his body like he did Kadaj in Advent Children.

Either way, Sephiroth wins.

So, come on people. I was told that I would get owned here, prove that guy right.

Well if it ain't good ol' Cid, haha.

Originally posted by Xenogears
Well if it ain't good ol' Cid, haha.

You told me that I'd get owned here right? Time to put that to the test. You were hardly a worthy opponent on Codec, so let's see what these guys have.

No, I have not, but after reading that long worthless post of your's I've come to know who you are, and the way you speak is awfully familiar.

Originally posted by Xenogears
No, I have not, but after reading that long worthless post of your's I've come to know who you are, and the way you speak is awfully familiar.

You're Darkness right?

Lol, the guy you persistently argue with the entire time on codec?

Originally posted by Xenogears
Lol, the guy you persistently argue with the entire time on codec?

Yeah, if you're not him then who are you then? I came here to prove a point to him, and that's what I plan on doing.

Originally posted by Chaotic
I've been told before that I'll get owned if I were to debate here. So I'm putting that theory to the test, hopefully you guys can put up a better debate then the guy who told me to come here. So here it goes.

Welcome to KMC. cheers

Originally posted by Chaotic

Sephiroth would win, he's got several, several ways to win. For one, he's shown just as much skill in Advent Children as Kuja showed in Final Fantasy 9. This is supported by the fact that he completely outmatched Cloud in every aspect. You can check the Ultimania Omega Strategy guide for confirmation on that.

Sephiroth is very skilled. I agree. In fact in FF7 he is the most skilled character, and that characteristic has been adressed and reconfirmed in every FF7 media. However the fact that Sephiroth is skilled does not automatically give him the win against Kuja, specially when you have stated both are near the same skill level.

Originally posted by Chaotic

I've seen a lot of people saying that Sephiroth had to use Meteor to destroy a planet whereas Kuja did it with an Ultima Spell. I say big whoop. Sephiroth never wanted to destroy gaia, his plan was to damage it enough to create an influx of energy so that he may absorb it and become a God. If he wanted to destroy the planet he more then could have, once again I'm supported by Advent Children. In the movie he said that he wished to "sail the cosmos using this planet as a vessel, as my mother did before me"

It is true that Sephiroth never showed the desire to destroy the planet, but that does not rule out the fact he has yet to prove he can actually pull it off. Besides if he did have the power to destroy/hurt the planet; why did he not just mess the planet up first hand instead of searching for meteor? Specially when he knew Aerith's holy could significantly halt his quest.

Originally posted by Chaotic

Looking back into FF7, Jenova came from the sky on what appeared to be a meteorite, however she actually destroyed the planet she was on and used it as a ship. Sephiroth is more then capable of doing the same.

I do not really know if she actually used a destroyed planet as a ship--although in all probabilty she did. Sephiroth has never shown to be capable of destroying a planet. If Jenova managed to pull it off is irrelevant because we're not discussing Jenova here. Once again: he might be able to do it, but he has failed to prove he can. Something Kuja did with relative ease in his trance state.

Originally posted by Chaotic

Sephiroth is also shown to be able to control the body of anything that has Jenova Cells in it, Cloud and Kadaj are two very good examples. Cloud has a minimal amount of J-Cells whereas Kadaj is full of them. Seph easily controlled both of them. He even fully took control of Kadaj's body, going so far as morphing his appearance. (an ability that Jenova itself is shown to have when she took the forms of the dead Cetra and disguised herself as Sephiroth at the beginning of the game)

And how does that equate to him beating Kuja? This is Sephiroth vs. Kuja. Not Sephiroth + mind controlled Cloud & Kadaj vs. Kuja. Even if Sephiroth was able to use these 2 as meatshields they will not be able to stand up to Kuja. They would be as much of a nuissance to Kuja as a fly is to human beings.

Originally posted by Chaotic

He was shown in Advent Children to be able to summon forth the corrupted (Negative) lifestream, this lifestream is the planet's energy that has been defiled with Geostigma, which is caused when the body rejects Jenova Cells. The lifestream itself is deadly, proven in the On the Way to a Smile: Case of Denzel story where thousands of people in Midgar were killed on contact. But it holds an even more sinister purpose, it can spread J-Cells. It infects anybody close to it with J-Cells, eventually causing geostigma in the body.

I know all about the negative lifestream. However it doesn't really compare to Kuja's raw power as shown when Trance Kuja destroyed Terra. Sephiroth would be able to destroy all life in the planet with the negative lifestream, but the planet itself would not be destroyed. What I'm trying to point out is that compared to Trance Kuja's feat the negative lifestream is lackluster. It would be like killing someone by injecting him with a deadly virus(n-lifestream) and killing someone by punching him until he explodes(terra). Although both ways are legit IMO. On a side note I doubt the N-lifestream would affect Kuja considering he is not human, nor is he from the same planet.

Originally posted by Chaotic

But the important thing is that he can use the Negative Life Stream to infect Kuja with J-Cells, as much as he wants, and then from there he can control Kuja and turn him a Sephiroth Clone or even better he could take full control over Kuja and take over his body like he did Kadaj in Advent Children.

I doubt the N-lifestream would affect Kuja considering he is not human, nor is he from the same planet. Also Kuja is strong willed. Even if he did actually manage to get J-cells inside him he would not be able to control him. Sephiroth could not control Cloud after Cloud came to his senses before the end of the 2nd FF7 disc.

Originally posted by Chaotic

Either way, Sephiroth wins.

The problem with your ways for Sephiroth winning is that they assume Trance Kuja is just standing there while Sephiroth does all the magic. When Kuja is not stupid, he is actually a genius, and he would not give Sephiroth that opportunity. Sephiroth has yet to prove he can survive Trance Kuja's planet busting capabilities as well.

Originally posted by Chaotic

So, come on people. I was told that I would get owned here, prove that guy right.

All in due time.

Kuja was a homo. But seriously, how the f*ck did the party beat him!?

Well these points have pretty much been refuted before on another site. Why he constantly uses them in his arguments is beyond me. Oh, and he has officially stated that he's an FF7 fanboy

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Kuja was a homo. But seriously, how the f*ck did the party beat him!?

Originally posted by Xenogears
Well these points have pretty much been refuted before on another site. Why he constantly uses them in his arguments is beyond me. Oh, and he has officially stated that he's an FF7 fanboy

Nothing wrong with being a fanboy unless you thread that thin line between good and evil...and then trip and fall to darkness...

Seriously, how the f*ck did Zidane, Garnet, gay eyelash Steiner, fatass Quina, emo midget Vivi, Eiko, and Amarant beat Trance Kuja!?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Seriously, how the f*ck did Zidane, Garnet, gay eyelash Steiner, fatass Quina, emo midget Vivi, Eiko, and Amarant beat Trance Kuja!?

Well Kuja wasn't acting like his normal self. I'm pretty sure that Zidane who Garland mentions is almost stronger if not stronger (don't remember) then normal Kuja so by logic Trance Zidane > Trance Kuja.

Yeah. Garland stated Zidane was more powerful.

So then where are his world busting powers? Oh and I'm not sure that's true he said sumthin like Zidane will replace Kuja cause Kuja doesn't have long to live because he was made to have a set life span.

Zidane isn't trying to destroy the planet like Kuja. I'll have to go get the script to confirm this or something.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
So then where are his world busting powers? Oh and I'm not sure that's true he said sumthin like Zidane will replace Kuja cause Kuja doesn't have long to live because he was made to have a set life span.

First and foremost he did not want to destroy it. Secondly Zidane didn't even know he was a Gnome until 3/4 the game. It's also possible he never reached his full potential until he fought the final boss. I do remember Zidane being called more powerful than Kuja, but it's also true Kuja was going to get replaced by Zidane. That is why a jelous Kuja abandoned Zidane in Gaia.

I don't remember Zidane being called more powerful, does anyone have some proof via link?

I'll look for it later.

Listen to me boy you find it NOW!

==Before fighting Kuja and Garland==
Zidane: You mean you won't need Kuja's soul once I grow stronger than
him?

Garland: Precisely... Soon, that time will come.

==After defeating Kuja==
Kuja: Yes! This is the power I've longed for!!! The mighty power of
souls! They assault any threat that tries to destroy them!

Zidane: Wh-What do you mean...?

Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be
enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops.

==A little further after Kuja kills Garland==
Garland's Spirit: There's a limit on your life... You'll be dead soon...
Even as I die, you'll have died without ever leaving your mark on the
world...

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Listen to me boy you find it NOW!

Originally posted by ESB -1138
==Before fighting Kuja and Garland==
Zidane: You mean you won't need Kuja's soul once I grow stronger than
him?

Garland: Precisely... Soon, that time will come.

==After defeating Kuja==
Kuja: Yes! This is the power I've longed for!!! The mighty power of
souls! They assault any threat that tries to destroy them!

Zidane: Wh-What do you mean...?

Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be
enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops.

==A little further after Kuja kills Garland==
Garland's Spirit: There's a limit on your life... You'll be dead soon...
Even as I die, you'll have died without ever leaving your mark on the
world... Thank you.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's over.
Well done team cheers

Originally posted by Xenogears
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's over.
Well done team cheers kisses

I said no kisses!

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Sephiroth is very skilled. I agree. In fact in FF7 he is the most skilled character, and that characteristic has been adressed and reconfirmed in every FF7 media. However the fact that Sephiroth is skilled does not automatically give him the win against Kuja, specially when you have stated both are near the same skill level.

Allow me to correct you, I said he's shown just as much skill in Advent Children as Kuja showed in Final Fantasy 9. Which is true, and you don't seem to disagree... although after this you probably will. What Sephiroth showed in Advent Children was nowhere near his full potential. Once again, my statement is backed up by official literature from the creators of the game.



That and more can be found in the Translations of the Ultimania Omega Strategy Guide.

*apparently I can't post a link so you'll have type "Ultimania Omega FAQ" into google and go to the first result to see the source material.*

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
It is true that Sephiroth never showed the desire to destroy the planet, but that does not rule out the fact he has yet to prove he can actually pull it off. Besides if he did have the power to destroy/hurt the planet; why did he not just mess the planet up first hand instead of searching for meteor? Specially when he knew Aerith's holy could significantly halt his quest.

His plan was to reenact his "mother's" plan completely, which of course uses the Black Materia. Besides that, Meteor itself could have had something to do with how the plan unfolds. Remember, he has to be at the center of the wound on the planet in order to gain all of the energy. Maybe since he summoned Meteor it wouldn't harm him when it hit whereas anything else would have.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I do not really know if she actually used a destroyed planet as a ship--although in all probabilty she did. Sephiroth has never shown to be capable of destroying a planet. If Jenova managed to pull it off is irrelevant because we're not discussing Jenova here. Once again: he might be able to do it, but he has failed to prove he can. Something Kuja did with relative ease in his trance state.

I don't think his dialog in Advent Children was meant to be false. The way I see it, if he says he'll do something he's capable of it. The exact words of what he said is as follows.

Originally Said by Sephiroth
The last thoughts of Geostigma's dead... those remnants will join the lifestream and circle the planet; choking it; corroding it. What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as a vessel. Just as Mother did long ago. then one day we'll find a new planet and on it's soil we'll create a shining future.

What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as a vessel. Just as Mother did long ago.

If you ask me, that sounds like pretty definitive that both Sephiroth and Jenova are capable of doing it, unless you say that Sephiroth was lying. Which there is no proof to such a claim, nor will their ever be.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
And how does that equate to him beating Kuja? This is Sephiroth vs. Kuja. Not Sephiroth + mind controlled Cloud & Kadaj vs. Kuja. Even if Sephiroth was able to use these 2 as meatshields they will not be able to stand up to Kuja. They would be as much of a nuissance to Kuja as a fly is to human beings.

Well, that was all part of what I had continued below, of course when you break it apart it has no relevance to the topic at at, but combined with what I had said after it, it goes along perfectly in showing how much control he has over his "clones".

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I know all about the negative lifestream. However it doesn't really compare to Kuja's raw power as shown when Trance Kuja destroyed Terra. Sephiroth would be able to destroy all life in the planet with the negative lifestream, but the planet itself would not be destroyed. What I'm trying to point out is that compared to Trance Kuja's feat the negative lifestream is lackluster. It would be like killing someone by injecting him with a deadly virus(n-lifestream) and killing someone by punching him until he explodes(terra). Although both ways are legit IMO. On a side note I doubt the N-lifestream would affect Kuja considering he is not human, nor is he from the same planet.

Controlling the lifestream is controlling life itself. Since it is of course the "blood of the planet". The lifestream is composed of all those who's souls returned to the planet. So controlling it should be a feat indeed. I don't see Kuja controlling the souls of the dead.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I doubt the N-lifestream would affect Kuja considering he is not human, nor is he from the same planet. Also Kuja is strong willed. Even if he did actually manage to get J-cells inside him he would not be able to control him. Sephiroth could not control Cloud after Cloud came to his senses before the end of the 2nd FF7 disc.

Just because you're not from the same place doesn't mean that you can't be affected by their problems. Take for example the Native Americans in the US, when Europeans came and brought their sickness and diseases it still affected the Natives, in fact since they had never been exposed to such a thing before it hit them much harder. The same principal applies here, Kuja, although not human, is still made of the same stuff. He can get sick just like any normal human, it might take more effort but he can succumb to it. As far as Kuja controlling the J-Cells, it might be possible. But it's unlikely that he'd have more control then Sephiroth, who controlled Jenova itself. He has more control over the cells then the being from which those cells came from does. I doubt Kuja could accomplish that, since he wasn't born with them.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
The problem with your ways for Sephiroth winning is that they assume Trance Kuja is just standing there while Sephiroth does all the magic. When Kuja is not stupid, he is actually a genius, and he would not give Sephiroth that opportunity. Sephiroth has yet to prove he can survive Trance Kuja's planet busting capabilities as well.

Well, Sephiroth survived Super Nova without a scratch, which not only destroyed planets but also the sun as well. So a planet destroying attack shouldn't be much of a problem. Then after the planet is destroyed he's just simply absorb all that "boundless energy" and be "reborn as a God, to rule over every soul"

Originally posted by Chaotic
Allow me to correct you, I said he's shown just as much skill in Advent Children as Kuja showed in Final Fantasy 9. Which is true, and you don't seem to disagree... although after this you probably will. What Sephiroth showed in Advent Children was nowhere near his full potential. Once again, my statement is backed up by official literature from the creators of the game.



That and more can be found in the Translations of the Ultimania Omega Strategy Guide.

*apparently I can't post a link so you'll have type "Ultimania Omega FAQ" into google and go to the first result to see the source material.*



His plan was to reenact his "mother's" plan completely, which of course uses the Black Materia. Besides that, Meteor itself could have had something to do with how the plan unfolds. Remember, he has to be at the center of the wound on the planet in order to gain all of the energy. Maybe since he summoned Meteor it wouldn't harm him when it hit whereas anything else would have.



I don't think his dialog in Advent Children was meant to be false. The way I see it, if he says he'll do something he's capable of it. The exact words of what he said is as follows.

Originally Said by Sephiroth
The last thoughts of Geostigma's dead... those remnants will join the lifestream and circle the planet; choking it; corroding it. What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as a vessel. Just as Mother did long ago. then one day we'll find a new planet and on it's soil we'll create a shining future.

What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as a vessel. Just as Mother did long ago.

If you ask me, that sounds like pretty definitive that both Sephiroth and Jenova are capable of doing it, unless you say that Sephiroth was lying. Which there is no proof to such a claim, nor will their ever be.



Well, that was all part of what I had continued below, of course when you break it apart it has no relevance to the topic at at, but combined with what I had said after it, it goes along perfectly in showing how much control he has over his "clones".



Controlling the lifestream is controlling life itself. Since it is of course the "blood of the planet". The lifestream is composed of all those who's souls returned to the planet. So controlling it should be a feat indeed. I don't see Kuja controlling the souls of the dead.



Just because you're not from the same place doesn't mean that you can't be affected by their problems. Take for example the Native Americans in the US, when Europeans came and brought their sickness and diseases it still affected the Natives, in fact since they had never been exposed to such a thing before it hit them much harder. The same principal applies here, Kuja, although not human, is still made of the same stuff. He can get sick just like any normal human, it might take more effort but he can succumb to it. As far as Kuja controlling the J-Cells, it might be possible. But it's unlikely that he'd have more control then Sephiroth, who controlled Jenova itself. He has more control over the cells then the being from which those cells came from does. I doubt Kuja could accomplish that, since he wasn't born with them.



Well, Sephiroth survived Super Nova without a scratch, which not only destroyed planets but also the sun as well. So a planet destroying attack shouldn't be much of a problem. Then after the planet is destroyed he's just simply absorb all that "boundless energy" and be "reborn as a God, to rule over every soul" You actually make some good points. As far as Super Nova goes however, I'm pretty sure that's just an illusionary attack.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You actually make some good points. As far as Super Nova goes however, I'm pretty sure that's just an illusionary attack.

That's a theory that the fans came up with, officially it's not an illusion because we've never been told by anything official. And since you can't use a theory as fact, no matter how popular, it's not an illusion but a real attack.

Now of course, if anybody has any official documentation of it being called a theory, please feel free to post it. However, I'm sure you'll find it hard to find anything at all.

Oh and thanks for the compliment.

Originally posted by Chaotic
That's a theory that the fans came up with, officially it's not an illusion because we've never been told by anything official. And since you can't use a theory as fact, no matter how popular, it's not an illusion but a real attack.

Now of course, if anybody has any official documentation of it being called a theory, please feel free to post it. However, I'm sure you'll find it hard to find anything at all.

Oh and thanks for the compliment. So Cloud and company survived a Star shattering meteor? Right....

Originally posted by Chaotic
Allow me to correct you, I said he's shown just as much skill in Advent Children as Kuja showed in Final Fantasy 9. Which is true, and you don't seem to disagree... although after this you probably will. What Sephiroth showed in Advent Children was nowhere near his full potential. Once again, my statement is backed up by official literature from the creators of the game.

I agree that Advent Children Sephiroth is his weakest incarnation. However Sephiroth manipulating the n-lifestream is not really that impressive considering his relation to Jenova. The only skill he showed was with the Masamune, and he is going to need more than that to top Kuja. What Sephiroth showed in AC was no where what he showed in the game. All this talk about full potential is irrelevant because he has not reached it yet.


Originally posted by Chaotic

That and more can be found in the Translations of the Ultimania Omega Strategy Guide.

*apparently I can't post a link so you'll have type "Ultimania Omega FAQ" into google and go to the first result to see the source material.*

You can post links.

Originally posted by Chaotic

His plan was to reenact his "mother's" plan completely, which of course uses the Black Materia. Besides that, Meteor itself could have had something to do with how the plan unfolds. Remember, he has to be at the center of the wound on the planet in order to gain all of the energy. Maybe since he summoned Meteor it wouldn't harm him when it hit whereas anything else would have.

There is no proof Meteor had something to do with how the plan unfolds. Sephiroth had to be in the center of the planet because that is where the energy was going to gather to begin the cycle again. Sephiroth was going to interrupt this cycle in order to attaind godhood. In gameplay if a character casts an offensive/status spell on someone that has reflect the spell is redirected at the caster and it can affect him. That leads me to believe Sephiroth would not be immune to meteor. And even if he became immune because he casted Meteor it would not aid him in a durability debate because it is not part of his physical stats.



Originally posted by Chaotic

I don't think his dialog in Advent Children was meant to be false. The way I see it, if he says he'll do something he's capable of it. The exact words of what he said is as follows.

Characters can say a lot of stuff. It does not mean they can actually do them. In a debate actual proof is of importance. Kuja has his proof; where is Sephiroth's? Speculation won't cut it.

Originally posted by Chaotic


Originally Said by Sephiroth
The last thoughts of Geostigma's dead... those remnants will join the lifestream and circle the planet; choking it; corroding it. What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as a vessel. Just as Mother did long ago. then one day we'll find a new planet and on it's soil we'll create a shining future.

What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as a vessel. Just as Mother did long ago.

If you ask me, that sounds like pretty definitive that both Sephiroth and Jenova are capable of doing it, unless you say that Sephiroth was lying. Which there is no proof to such a claim, nor will their ever be.

And? He did not do it. Sephiroth has been wrong before. He is not omniscient. He was wrong about being a Cetra for starters. BTW I did not claim Jenova couldn't do it; I just made the observation that if she did it the feat belongs to her and not Sephiroth.


Originally posted by Chaotic


Well, that was all part of what I had continued below, of course when you break it apart it has no relevance to the topic at at, but combined with what I had said after it, it goes along perfectly in showing how much control he has over his "clones".

Easy. I got your point across. However I told you that Sephiroth corrupting Kuja with Jenova and then controlling him the same way he did Kadaj is really far-stretched.


Originally posted by Chaotic


Controlling the lifestream is controlling life itself. Since it is of course the "blood of the planet". The lifestream is composed of all those who's souls returned to the planet. So controlling it should be a feat indeed. I don't see Kuja controlling the souls of the dead.

He did not control life itself. He controlled the Jenova cells aka the negative-lifestream that was infecting the lifestream. Never did Sephiroth show control over the lifestream. Newsflash: If Sephiroth actually controlled the lifestream he would have prevented it from helping Holy stop Meteor.

On a side note Kuja used tech to manipulate souls.


Originally posted by Chaotic

Just because you're not from the same place doesn't mean that you can't be affected by their problems. Take for example the Native Americans in the US, when Europeans came and brought their sickness and diseases it still affected the Natives, in fact since they had never been exposed to such a thing before it hit them much harder. The same principal applies here, Kuja, although not human, is still made of the same stuff. He can get sick just like any normal human, it might take more effort but he can succumb to it. As far as Kuja controlling the J-Cells, it might be possible. But it's unlikely that he'd have more control then Sephiroth, who controlled Jenova itself. He has more control over the cells then the being from which those cells came from does. I doubt Kuja could accomplish that, since he wasn't born with them.

No. If Kuja is not human you cannot make the claim he is made of the same stuff. For starters Queen Brahme being human(a really ugly one at that) along with the rest of her army were decimated by Bahamut's attack. Kuja was unphased by it when Bahamut used the same attack on him.

Sephiroth's control over the J-cells was not enough to keep Cloud in-check throughout the entire FF7 quest. It will not work on Kuja.

Originally posted by Chaotic

Well, Sephiroth survived Super Nova without a scratch, which not only destroyed planets but also the sun as well. So a planet destroying attack shouldn't be much of a problem. Then after the planet is destroyed he's just simply absorb all that "boundless energy" and be "reborn as a God, to rule over every soul"

I am sure you are aware making the claim Sephiroth survived a Super Nova and try to make it sound believable is out of bounds, right? Cloud & co. survived the same attack!? But wait...Sephiroth was badly injured from a sword wound, and so was Cloud in actual canon cutscenes and yet they can survive Super Novas? You are better off leaving the Super Nova out of the discussion.

Originally posted by Chaotic
That's a theory that the fans came up with, officially it's not an illusion because we've never been told by anything official. And since you can't use a theory as fact, no matter how popular, it's not an illusion but a real attack.

Now of course, if anybody has any official documentation of it being called a theory, please feel free to post it. However, I'm sure you'll find it hard to find anything at all.

Oh and thanks for the compliment.

Nice way of bending stuff left and right. But Sephiroth and Cloud's party surviving Super Novas is too far fetched and even the most insane FF7 fan would admit it.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Nice way of bending stuff left and right. But Sephiroth and Cloud's party surviving Super Novas is too far fetched and even the most insane FF7 fan would admit it. Agreed. He made some decent points but Supernova is either noncanon or an illusionary move.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
I agree that Advent Children Sephiroth is his weakest incarnation. However Sephiroth manipulating the n-lifestream is not really that impressive considering his relation to Jenova. The only skill he showed was with the Masamune, and he is going to need more than that to top Kuja. What Sephiroth showed in AC was no where what he showed in the game. All this talk about full potential is irrelevant because he has not reached it yet.

His incarnation in Advent Children was his strongest yet, he has all the abilities from the game plus many more. And the talk of full potential is relevant because he's never shown more power then what he did in Advent Children. Which is much below his maximum.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
IYou can post links.

It says I have to be more well known.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
IThere is no proof Meteor had something to do with how the plan unfolds. Sephiroth had to be in the center of the planet because that is where the energy was going to gather to begin the cycle again. Sephiroth was going to interrupt this cycle in order to attaind godhood. In gameplay if a character casts an offensive/status spell on someone that has reflect the spell is redirected at the caster and it can affect him. That leads me to believe Sephiroth would not be immune to meteor. And even if he became immune because he casted Meteor it would not aid him in a durability debate because it is not part of his physical stats.

Even so, that doesn't change the fact that he was preforming Jenova's plan down to the exacts, which is why he summoned Meteor instead of taking a quicker route.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
ICharacters can say a lot of stuff. It does not mean they can actually do them. In a debate actual proof is of importance. Kuja has his proof; where is Sephiroth's? Speculation won't cut it.

That's exactly my point, speculation won't cut it. It seems that we're both at a standstill. The movie says he can yet he didn't, so I assume he can. You speculate that he can't, who's right? Speculation won't cut it, meaning the closest drop to evidence we have is what he said. Since he didn't do it or even attempt it for that matter, you have to use the best evidence you can. Which is what is said.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
IAnd? He did not do it. Sephiroth has been wrong before. He is not omniscient. He was wrong about being a Cetra for starters. BTW I did not claim Jenova couldn't do it; I just made the observation that if she did it the feat belongs to her and not Sephiroth.

He didn't do it because he never had the chance to do so. He fought Cloud, who got lucky, and was defeated. He might have been wrong about being a Cetra, but he only knew what he read. He saw that his Mother was Jenova and that Gast had Jenova classified as an Ancient. He was wrong, but only because he was lead to believe so by reports. I would think that he'd know what he was capable of. Especially since he's shown to have every other ability that Jenova has.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
IEasy. I got your point across. However I told you that Sephiroth corrupting Kuja with Jenova and then controlling him the same way he did Kadaj is really far-stretched.

I don't see how it is honestly.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
IHe did not control life itself. He controlled the Jenova cells aka the negative-lifestream that was infecting the lifestream. Never did Sephiroth show control over the lifestream. Newsflash: If Sephiroth actually controlled the lifestream he would have prevented it from helping Holy stop Meteor.

On a side note Kuja used tech to manipulate souls.

Well, if you don't want to count that as controlling the lifestream then I've got another for you. In the SE published story "The Maiden Who Travels the Planet" he does indeed control the lifestream, not negative LS either, the pure stuff. He used it to suck President Shinra's concisenesses away during the events of Final Fantasy VII. Once again, I can't post links, so you'll have to look it up yourself.


Originally posted by Superboy Prime
INo. If Kuja is not human you cannot make the claim he is made of the same stuff. For starters Queen Brahme being human(a really ugly one at that) along with the rest of her army were decimated by Bahamut's attack. Kuja was unphased by it when Bahamut used the same attack on him.

Sephiroth's control over the J-cells was not enough to keep Cloud in-check throughout the entire FF7 quest. It will not work on Kuja.

What do you mean I can't make the claim he's made of the same stuff? EVERYTHING is made of the same material, right now to their atoms. He has to be comprised of cells, just like every other living creature. And an attack from a Dragon isn't the same thing as a Disease, you can't say it is. Also, after Sephiroth received the Black Materia from Cloud he had no use to even TRY to control him anymore. As I recall, he never even tried, so making the assumption that he can't is absurd, especially when he can still manipulate his other clones.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
II am sure you are aware making the claim Sephiroth survived a Super Nova and try to make it sound believable is out of bounds, right? Cloud & co. survived the same attack!? But wait...Sephiroth was badly injured from a sword wound, and so was Cloud in actual canon cutscenes and yet they can survive Super Novas? You are better off leaving the Super Nova out of the discussion.

Okay, then let's say Super Nova IS an illusion, that doesn't decrease the power of the attack, in fact it only makes him that much stronger. Instead of creating a fireball that destroys worlds he's now capable of diving into ANYBODIES mind and creating an illusion. What would stop him from putting Kuja into an illusion then cutting him down where he stands without any resistance whatsoever? Nothing, his will is obviously at least as strong as Kuja's own. Defying your creator, willing yourself a body from nothing both seem about the same to me.

Originally posted by Chaotic
Allow me to correct you, I said he's shown just as much skill in Advent Children as Kuja showed in Final Fantasy 9. Which is true, and you don't seem to disagree... although after this you probably will. What Sephiroth showed in Advent Children was nowhere near his full potential. Once again, my statement is backed up by official literature from the creators of the game. That and more can be found in the Translations of the Ultimania Omega Strategy Guide.Sephiroth having equal or more skill than Kuja is a LARGE opinion on your behalf. If by chance he is more skilled than Kuja, that alone wouldn't give Sephiroth the victory against him.
Originally posted by Chaotic
His plan was to reenact his "mother's" plan completely, which of course uses the Black Materia. Besides that, Meteor itself could have had something to do with how the plan unfolds. Remember, he has to be at the center of the wound on the planet in order to gain all of the energy. Maybe since he summoned Meteor it wouldn't harm him when it hit whereas anything else would have.And this has to do with being able to destroy a planet, how? Injuring a planet to consume its energy and nuking one are two totally different things, not to mention the time it takes a person to cast Meteor with the Black Materia is time-consuming. Kuja destroyed Terra within a few seconds.

Originally posted by Chaotic
I don't think his dialog in Advent Children was meant to be false. The way I see it, if he says he'll do something he's capable of it. The exact words of what he said is as follows.Where's the confirmation that Jenova destroyed a planet that's as large as the world of Terra. That meteor Jenova was riding was nowhere near the size of Terra, or Earth. Secondly, the way Sephiroth can "destroy" a planet, or corrupting it rather, is by using the lifestream against it, and as your beloved Sephiroth states, "The last thoughts of Geostigma's dead... those remnants will join the lifestream and circle the planet; choking it; corroding it." That's not really going to assist Sephiroth here, considering this is not Gaia they're fighting on, nor has Sephiroth ever used the lifestream against his opponents before. What he can do with it in battle is a mere pigment of your imagination.

Originally posted by Chaotic
If you ask me, that sounds like pretty definitive that both Sephiroth and Jenova are capable of doing it, unless you say that Sephiroth was lying. Which there is no proof to such a claim, nor will their ever be.Yeah, capable of sailing the cosmos with a planet. Big whoop there.

Originally posted by Chaotic
Well, that was all part of what I had continued below, of course when you break it apart it has no relevance to the topic at at, but combined with what I had said after it, it goes along perfectly in showing how much control he has over his "clones". Controlling the lifestream is controlling life itself. Since it is of course the "blood of the planet". The lifestream is composed of all those who's souls returned to the planet. So controlling it should be a feat indeed. I don't see Kuja controlling the souls of the dead.All that needs to said in response to this is: Nuking an entire planet > Anything Sephiroth has shown to do.

Originally posted by Chaotic
Just because you're not from the same place doesn't mean that you can't be affected by their problems. Take for example the Native Americans in the US, when Europeans came and brought their sickness and diseases it still affected the Natives, in fact since they had never been exposed to such a thing before it hit them much harder. The same principal applies here, Kuja, although not human, is still made of the same stuff. He can get sick just like any normal human, it might take more effort but he can succumb to it. As far as Kuja controlling the J-Cells, it might be possible. But it's unlikely that he'd have more control then Sephiroth, who controlled Jenova itself. He has more control over the cells then the being from which those cells came from does. I doubt Kuja could accomplish that, since he wasn't born with them.Wow...what complete and utter bullshit...lmfao

Your comparison of humans getting infected with diseases and Trance Kuja becoming infected with Jenova cells is ridiculous and laughable. What makes you think using the negative lifestream against a being of Kuja's caliber would be effective? No scratch that, what makes you think Sephiroth would be able to infect Kuja with J-cells in the first place?

Originally posted by Chaotic
Well, Sephiroth survived Super Nova without a scratch, which not only destroyed planets but also the sun as well. So a planet destroying attack shouldn't be much of a problem. Then after the planet is destroyed he's just simply absorb all that "boundless energy" and be "reborn as a God, to rule over every soul" Now here is where I laugh at the biggest and most utter piece of nonsense you've put down here. You sure do know how to contradict yourself saying Sephiroth has enough durability to endure planet-destroying assaults, yet at other times you state that it is only an illusionary attack by said character, where he manipulates the person into seeing the animation, because when another fanboy is debating you, you don't want them to lose control and throw tantrum. Fact of the matter is, it's in fact an illusionary attack, as far as most people are concerned. In addition, if Sephiroth can get raped by an omnislash from his boyfriend Cloud Strife, it proves that he can't endure attacks of the like and assaults far worse than that, such as say...Kuja's planet-destroying Ultima.

Edit: And your theory of Sephiroth becoming a god right after Kuja blasts him with a planet-destroying assault is beyond hilarious.

Farewell and have a nice day.

He's right about the Kuja destroying Terra, only the surface was destroyed and it wasn't like one giant beam of death, it was several blasts.

Originally posted by Chaotic
His incarnation in Advent Children was his strongest yet, he has all the abilities from the game plus many more. And the talk of full potential is relevant because he's never shown more power then what he did in Advent Children. Which is much below his maximum.

And yet with all of Sephiroth's never before seen power he still relies on his masamune in a fight. Honestly as far as the movie goes Sephiroth does not impress me. Not in the very least.


Originally posted by Chaotic
It says I have to be more well known.


Aye. Forgot about those restrictions.



Originally posted by Chaotic
Even so, that doesn't change the fact that he was preforming Jenova's plan down to the exacts, which is why he summoned Meteor instead of taking a quicker route.

Jenova used meteor as well during her ancient war days? Jenova you pussy. If she actually used meteor too I am led to believe her "planet busting" abilities are not as concrete as you think they are.

Originally posted by Chaotic
That's exactly my point, speculation won't cut it. It seems that we're both at a standstill. The movie says he can yet he didn't, so I assume he can. You speculate that he can't, who's right? Speculation won't cut it, meaning the closest drop to evidence we have is what he said. Since he didn't do it or even attempt it for that matter, you have to use the best evidence you can. Which is what is said.

I don't take Sephiroth's word for granted.

Originally posted by Chaotic
He didn't do it because he never had the chance to do so. He fought Cloud, who got lucky, and was defeated. He might have been wrong about being a Cetra, but he only knew what he read. He saw that his Mother was Jenova and that Gast had Jenova classified as an Ancient. He was wrong, but only because he was lead to believe so by reports. I would think that he'd know what he was capable of. Especially since he's shown to have every other ability that Jenova has.

Cloud did not get lucky. Sephiroth committed the same mistake he always does: he underestimated Cloud. For all of Sephiroth's intellect he still repeats the same mistake over and over again. You also need to remember Sephiroth is not 100% Jenova. Let me clear myself up: what he has is the remains of Jenova aka--a head/neck/whatever it was.


Originally posted by Chaotic
I don't see how it is honestly.

Fine by me.


Originally posted by Chaotic
Well, if you don't want to count that as controlling the lifestream then I've got another for you. In the SE published story "The Maiden Who Travels the Planet" he does indeed control the lifestream, not negative LS either, the pure stuff. He used it to suck President Shinra's concisenesses away during the events of Final Fantasy VII. Once again, I can't post links, so you'll have to look it up yourself.

That still does not prove he will be able to corrupt Kuja with n-lifestream. His control over the lifestream is not as outstanding as you're making us believe. Why didn't he stop the lifestream when it helped holy? Exactly. Besides Sephiroth was able to suck Shinra's consciousness away because Shinra had already joined the lifestream. The same case cannot be applied to Kuja.


Originally posted by Chaotic
What do you mean I can't make the claim he's made of the same stuff? EVERYTHING is made of the same material, right now to their atoms. He has to be comprised of cells, just like every other living creature. And an attack from a Dragon isn't the same thing as a Disease, you can't say it is. Also, after Sephiroth received the Black Materia from Cloud he had no use to even TRY to control him anymore. As I recall, he never even tried, so making the assumption that he can't is absurd, especially when he can still manipulate his other clones.

How exactly do you know he never tried? He even lost the fight inside Cloud's mind at the end of FF7.

Sephiroth infecting and controlling Kuja is too far fetched because Kuja is too powerful. He has never shown the ability to manipulate someone on Kuja's level. Not to mention Cloud, and the rest of the SHM had issues that could be easily exploited. In essence the SHM were kids.


Originally posted by Chaotic
Okay, then let's say Super Nova IS an illusion, that doesn't decrease the power of the attack, in fact it only makes him that much stronger. Instead of creating a fireball that destroys worlds he's now capable of diving into ANYBODIES mind and creating an illusion. What would stop him from putting Kuja into an illusion then cutting him down where he stands without any resistance whatsoever? Nothing, his will is obviously at least as strong as Kuja's own. Defying your creator, willing yourself a body from nothing both seem about the same to me.

Thank God for having different colors and opinions.

Like I told you earlier the main flaw of your argument is that Kuja will just be standing there while Sephiroth attempts to infect him with Jenova Cells, manipulate him and try to cast an illusion on him.

Sephiroth cannonically has yet to prove he can survive Trance Kuja's Terra busting attack.

He has shown he is weak to swords...2 times in canon cutscenes.

Sephiroth is only more skilled than Kuja in martial skill, what he can do with his body. In terms of magical skill Kuja easily has the upper hand. I personally think that Seph would beat normal Kuja, but would lose to Trance. T.Kuja has more power than Seph and even though the Terra feat is sometimes overhyped, in that he didn't destroy the whole planet in one gigantic blast, he scorched the surface with many small ones and correct me if I am mistaken but Terra is a fairly small planet, it is legit and more than Seph has been shown capable of. I'll tell you this right now tho, Omega Weapon in DoC would f*ck Trance Kuja up!

Well, I think I proved my point.

Superboy Prime, it's been nice debating with you. You win, I've lost interest and my entire point of coming here was to show that I wouldn't be "completely pwned like a n00b" and I think I proved that statement to be false. You've got to be a saint to put up with my ramblings without resorting to flaming.

Xenogears, learn to work on your people skills homie, calling me a jackass? What the hell did I do to you? A bit short tempered are we? Piece of advice get laid dude, it'll do wonders for ya.

Violent2Dope, you seem like a cool fella, nice sig BTW, Ganondorf is the bomb. FYI though, Omega Weapon was nothing, I doubt it could **** Kuja up because it got ****ed up by Chaos.

If you guys ever wander over to MovieCodec Forums, look me up. I'm Cid there.

Omega Weapon was gonna kill all life on the planet to transport it to another world or some such bullshit. That's way above Kuja's Terra feat. Oh and Xeno, why do you hate this guy? He doesn't seem that bad.

Originally posted by Chaotic
Well, I think I proved my point.

Superboy Prime, it's been nice debating with you. You win, I've lost interest and my entire point of coming here was to show that I wouldn't be "completely pwned like a n00b" and I think I proved that statement to be false. You've got to be a saint to put up with my ramblings without resorting to flaming.

Xenogears, learn to work on your people skills homie, calling me a jackass? What the hell did I do to you? A bit short tempered are we? Piece of advice get laid dude, it'll do wonders for ya.

Violent2Dope, you seem like a cool fella, nice sig BTW, Ganondorf is the bomb. FYI though, Omega Weapon was nothing, I doubt it could **** Kuja up because it got ****ed up by Chaos.

If you guys ever wander over to MovieCodec Forums, look me up. I'm Cid there. How ironic considering you hand out insults to people over at codec.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Omega Weapon was gonna kill all life on the planet to transport it to another world or some such bullshit. That's way above Kuja's Terra feat. Oh and Xeno, why do you hate this guy? He doesn't seem that bad. Correction: I do not hate him.

Oh well you kinda seem to dislike him.

Originally posted by Xenogears
How ironic considering you hand out insults to people over at codec.

Only when they insult me first. Or if they're just some stupid newbie who's only there to be an ass.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Omega Weapon was gonna kill all life on the planet to transport it to another world or some such bullshit. That's way above Kuja's Terra feat. Oh and Xeno, why do you hate this guy? He doesn't seem that bad.

Yeah, but Omega was just a tool in the end, something to be used in part of a grander plan.

Originally posted by Chaotic
Yeah, but Omega was just a tool in the end, something to be used in part of a grander plan. Either way he was still stronger than Kuja.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Either way he was still stronger than Kuja.

Not really, saying that he's stronger then Kuja is saying Chaos is stronger, which is saying that Cloud is stronger, which means Sephiroth is stronger.

As much as I love FF7 and Hate FF9 even I know that Cloud and Vincent are no match for Kujie.

Originally posted by Chaotic
Not really, saying that he's stronger then Kuja is saying Chaos is stronger, which is saying that Cloud is stronger, which means Sephiroth is stronger.

As much as I love FF7 and Hate FF9 even I know that Cloud and Vincent are no match for Kujie. Vincent didn't fight Omega head on he fought it's mind or sumthin. Only after being weakened was Chaos able to kill Omega's body. Oh, and Chaos IS stronger than Cloud.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Vincent didn't fight Omega head on he fought it's mind or sumthin. Only after being weakened was Chaos able to kill Omega's body. Oh, and Chaos IS stronger than Cloud.

There is no evidence to support Chaos being stronger then Cloud. He probably isn't, if he was then Vinny would have had no problem dispatching Sephiroth on his own in the center of the earth. But he didn't, it took everybody.

And he fought Omega Weiss inside of it, which is probably a lot stronger then the actual weapon itself. The Weapons are pushovers, all of them. Cloud and his group took down Ultimate Weapon and Shinra took down Sapphire and Diamond. If you treat the Ruby and Emerald as cannon since they finally made it into the Japanese game, Cloud and company beat them as well. Even thought it's not cannon, The Turks killed Jade Weapon as well.

Weapon isn't a powerful monster.

Originally posted by Chaotic
There is no evidence to support Chaos being stronger then Cloud. He probably isn't, if he was then Vinny would have had no problem dispatching Sephiroth on his own in the center of the earth. But he didn't, it took everybody.

And he fought Omega Weiss inside of it, which is probably a lot stronger then the actual weapon itself. The Weapons are pushovers, all of them. Cloud and his group took down Ultimate Weapon and Shinra took down Sapphire and Diamond. If you treat the Ruby and Emerald as cannon since they finally made it into the Japanese game, Cloud and company beat them as well. Even thought it's not cannon, The Turks killed Jade Weapon as well.

Weapon isn't a powerful monster. Bullshit. What has Cloud done to put him above Chaos? Remember in FF7 Vincent wasn't able to use Chaos to it's fullest. Watch the cutscene at the end of DoC when Chaos is flying towards Omega and destroys him and then tell me Cloud is stronger than Chaos. One of the weapons was destroyed ny the Junon beam and Ultima Weapon is the weakest wep. And the weapons gameplay wise were stronger than Sephiroth.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Bullshit. What has Cloud done to put him above Chaos? Remember in FF7 Vincent wasn't able to use Chaos to it's fullest. Watch the cutscene at the end of DoC when Chaos is flying towards Omega and destroys him and then tell me Cloud is stronger than Chaos. One of the weapons was destroyed ny the Junon beam and Ultima Weapon is the weakest wep. And the weapons gameplay wise were stronger than Sephiroth.

He could still transform though... Also... you miss the point entirely. But I'm not explaining again. I'm not sticking around this forum.

Originally posted by Chaotic
He could still transform though... Also... you miss the point entirely. But I'm not explaining again. I'm not sticking around this forum. Miss what point? That the weapons are weak? Cause that's bullshit.

Uh...Cloud is nowhere near Chaos's level. Can Cloud quake the Earth with his power? Definitely not. Can he travel as fast as Chaos? Definitely not. Can he take assaults from weapons as if they were nothing at all? Definitely not.

What's even funnier is that he's stated Chaos would own DT Dante, and saying that Cloud is more powerful than Chaos means he would own DT Dante even worse, which is a load of shit seeing as Cloud wouldn't stand a bit of a chance against Dante, let alone Dante with his Devil form triggered.

Originally posted by Xenogears
Uh...Cloud is nowhere near Chaos's level. Can Cloud quake the Earth with his power? Definitely not. Can he travel as fast as Chaos? Definitely not. Can he take assaults from weapons as if they were nothing at all? Definitely not.

What's even funnier is that he's stated Chaos would own DT Dante, and saying that Cloud is more powerful than Chaos means he would own DT Dante even worse, which is a load of shit seeing as Cloud wouldn't stand a bit of a chance against Dante, let alone Dante with his Devil form triggered. That's true Cloud would die a pathetic death against Dante, but IDK Chaos could at least put up a fight. Oh, and can you believe that he said the Weapons were weak monsters!?

I didn't mean Chaos defeating Dante was funny, I meant that saying Chaos would defeat Dante, and at the same time saying Chaos doesn't match Cloud is ridiculous. Chaos has what it takes to defeat Dante, in my opinion.

The weapons are anything but weak. Sure the FF7 cast may have taken some of them down, though that doesn't make them weaklings. Chances are they probably aimed for their weak spots and used materia to their advantage. Hell, the FFX cast was able to defeat Seymour Flux as well as the Final Aeon, does that make them weak villains? Of course not, especially considering the things these villains can do.

Originally posted by Xenogears
I didn't mean Chaos defeating Dante was funny, I meant that saying Chaos would defeat Dante, and at the same time saying Chaos doesn't match Cloud is ridiculous. Chaos has what it takes to defeat Dante, in my opinion.

The weapons are anything but weak. Sure the FF7 cast may have taken some of them down, though that doesn't make them weaklings. Chances are they probably aimed for their weak spots and used materia to their advantage. Hell, the FFX cast was able to defeat Seymour Flux as well as the Final Aeon, does that make them weak villains? Of course not, especially considering the things these villains can do. Damn straight. Omega had the power to kill all life on the planet, how the hell is that weak?

Originally posted by Chaotic
Well, I think I proved my point.

Superboy Prime, it's been nice debating with you. You win, I've lost interest and my entire point of coming here was to show that I wouldn't be "completely pwned like a n00b" and I think I proved that statement to be false. You've got to be a saint to put up with my ramblings without resorting to flaming.

No problem-a. You should hang here every once in a while. FF fans are needed. Usually this place is filled with SF threads and it can get a little boring.

Yeah, I'm kinda gettin tired of all the Capcom 2D fighter threads. It's starting to piss me off.

Yeah...

ermm

Kuja destroyed a planet. Said multiple times.

One quote implies he blew it up.

I've heard this crap about Terra being in the core of Gaia but that contradicts the entire game and the source (the FFIX UOG) has never been offered.

Kuja is P.I.M.P.

Damn straight.

Not everyone can threaten the universe and cause mass terror while wearing a thong.

Besides, i find it odd that people so often bring that up...and I ask: why are you looking? It's not like he bent over with his ass in the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj5wvQ8YK9o

He purposefully let Bahamut hit him dead on and then laughed at it.

I think his design is unique. Being a narsicist and all...while also being a master strategist and well...blowing up planets. What's there not to love about the guy?

Yeah. I love that Bahamut feat. The fact it was Regular Kuja makes it so much cooler. I remember posting a few kuja vids in a Shin Gouki vs Trance Kuja thread. Poor noobs had to get owned the Gnome way.

Both Akuma and Kuja are more badass and stronger than Sephiroth, though.

Kuja is a pussy homo.

nQUXOfwNJvM

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
hysterical You fail, just like Kuja, the thong wearing queer.

sniper

Nah, the only thong-wearing queers in existence are Urien and Gill.

MeboxSuperboy Prime

V2D spam_laser SBP

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Me doingit Superboy Prime

in_love

yucky

kisses

Originally posted by Mr_Famous
wholl win?
i think kuja coz of his ultima spell

Of course Kuja wins. Kuja destroyed an entire planet and Sephiroth hasn't even proved he can come close to doing that.

Trance Kuja pwns!

FFVII Seph would lose, AC Seph would win

Originally posted by Terryc250
FFVII Seph would lose, AC Seph would win

FFVII Seph would lose, AC Seph would lose. Trance Kuja is superior to any form of Sephiroth.

Trance Kuja was stated to be strongest ff series bad guy thus far i believe by squareenix/soft

The order to my knowledge was:
Trance Kuja
Time Compressed Ultimacia
Sephiroth fully merged with Jenova
Kefka
Sin

^ that be a very cool fact, Hannibal. If it's true and you could find it, it be awesome.

That list can't be official, as Sephiroth and Jenova have never merged. Also, I'd say Ulitmecia showed more power than tranced Kuja. It also leaves exdeath out, and he has shown some immense power, beyond that of Sin or Kefka.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
That list can't be official, as Sephiroth and Jenova have never merged. Also, I'd say Ulitmecia showed more power than tranced Kuja. It also leaves exdeath out, and he has shown some immense power, beyond that of Sin or Kefka.

Thats just from memory (They refer to Safer as Jenova merged i guess)

will attempt to look it up, i remember seein it a lil bit back on AC.net i think

SE has never referred to Safer as a merger of Sephiroth and Jenova. It was probably a fan posting his personal opinions on the matter, as SE wouldn't leave out a power house like exdeath or put Ultimecia beneath Kuja.

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
Trance Kuja was stated to be strongest ff series bad guy thus far i believe by squareenix/soft

The order to my knowledge was:
Trance Kuja
Time Compressed Ultimacia
Sephiroth fully merged with Jenova
Kefka
Sin

I remember seeing a list like this before. Don't remember if that was the order but Kuja was number 1.

Where has it been stated that Kuja just instantly blew up a planet?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Where has it been stated that Kuja just instantly blew up a planet?

Nowhere.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Where has it been stated that Kuja just instantly blew up a planet?

Mikoto: You haven't got a chance. You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a
world by himself... You don't even have a million in one chance of
defeating him... You'll all die.

The word "destroyed" =/= the word(s) "blew-up"

So no, it wasn't stated anywhere he blew-up a planet.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Mikoto: You haven't got a chance. You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a
world by himself... You don't even have a million in one chance of
defeating him... You'll all die.

Doesnt say instantly anywhere there.. for all we know it took him months too destroy it..million in one chance? Seeing as though they did defeat him, that whole quote is probably just exaggeration.

Kuja didn't instantly bust the planet, the fact that he had to fire several blasts proves that. He only destroyed the surface based on what was shown.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Doesnt say instantly anywhere there.. for all we know it took him months too destroy it..million in one chance? Seeing as though they did defeat him, that whole quote is probably just exaggeration.

Kuja didn't destroy Terra with one single blast but multi-attacks oh and Kuja actually defeated the group so that statement is correct.

I seem to recall Kuja is also the only ff villian that has actually killed the main team... is that correct?

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
I seem to recall Kuja is also the only ff villian that has actually killed the main team... is that correct?

Hmm...well Zeromus (FF4) and the Cloud of Darkness (FF3) defeated the main team but the were fully restored right before the final battle. Thanks to the Tower of Prayers (FF4) and Dorga and Unni (FF3). If it wasn't for that the teams would have failed.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Kuja didn't destroy Terra with one single blast but multi-attacks oh and Kuja actually defeated the group so that statement is correct.

so then why is the team alive at the end .. and kuja dead.. ?

Originally posted by Terryc250
so then why is the team alive at the end .. and kuja dead.. ?

Is that why Kuja saved the team after fighting Necron? And why Garland kept mentioning Kuja's time was nearing an end since Disc 3?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Hmm...well Zeromus (FF4) and the Cloud of Darkness (FF3) defeated the main team but the were fully restored right before the final battle. Thanks to the Tower of Prayers (FF4) and Dorga and Unni (FF3). If it wasn't for that the teams would have failed.

Same thing for Beatrix in FFIX and Ultimecia/Edea in FFVIII.

Many FF villains defeated the heroes.

ESB's best category is attacking.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Is that why Kuja saved the team after fighting Necron? And why Garland kept mentioning Kuja's time was nearing an end since Disc 3?
Huh? Kuja gets defeated by the main heroes of FFIX, hes dead in the end of the game, and the heroes arent.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Huh? Kuja gets defeated by the main heroes of FFIX, hes dead in the end of the game, and the heroes arent. You've never played the game have you?

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
You've never played the game have you?

It's clear he didn't.

So, Kuja destroyed a planet.

He takes it.