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I remember many, many years ago, around the time of the Special Editions being released, my friend was talking about how Darth Vader got his suit, and he said that he fell into a volcano. Well, turns out that's probably right. I remember he also said that there were books beforehand, and that all of it had been laid out before. Frankly, I don't believe him, since these were made directly to movies. Quite a few people say that they're based on books, but I don't hear anything else about them besides that fact. Can anyone please clarify this "book" theory? And also... if there aren't books, how did everyone know the volcano story so long ago? Was it referenced in EU somewhere, and Lucas liked the idea? All help appreciated.

The 'books' can be anything from The Journal of the Whills to the ROTJ novelization. The idea of Anakin falling into a volcano/lava has been around for a long time.....

I think I remember reading about it in Starlog magazine in the late 70's.

Yeah, I speciffically remember it in the Return of the Jedi novelization. Ben goes into more depth in his explanation of how Anakin became Vader than he does in the film.

...yes a long long time. Oh from before you were born.

I think it first appeared in the ROTJ novelisation. Or let's say I'm sure it appeared there, so the Anakin-volcano-thingee exist at least from 1983. At least.

EDIT: I see old Obi-One here was too late. Oh well, I'll just take another puff
from my free-form tarnished chrome water pipe and reflect on the recent events.

The Journal of the Whills

Cool, thanks. Alright, that answers one question. Now, the books that they were talking about, were supposedly Episodes 1-9. They think that they're right, and claim that they exist. Where did that come from?

only episodes 1 - 6.....early drafts of the script that got out of hand and became thousands of pages long....sometimes referred to as "the journal of the whills"....never really "books" as such.....

When were these made? Well, when was it completed?

They had claimed to have read about "Episode VIII" but "forgot" where they saw it... I don't believe them but they're so persistant.

nah, is bollocks....

No, definitely not written in any direct form like that, Jkozzy, but as people say, the lava idea has appeared all over the place, it being GL's original rationale of how it happened, as he once told Mark Hamil whilst shooting Star Wars (before the distinct identities of Vader/Anakin were certainn his head, of course). Because GL said it, lots of others included it in their works.

Of course, several equally apparently certain things- Owen Lars being Obi-Wan's brother, for example, which also appeared in the novels- have been since blown out of the water. But this original idea of George's has stayed the course.

THe last one... but at least one.

Lucas always had that idea, (at least after he'd finally finished revising the first script).
In one of the Star Wars Insider Magazines, (issue #50, I think), he said something to the affect of "I always had the idea that Ben sent him into a volcano, or something". I remember that, but not from which issue it was from. Maybe it came from issue #45. I don't know. But I know he said that somewhere......

The lava-planet idea returned again in the form of "Had Abbadon", the precursor to Coruscant, in one of the early scripts to RotJ.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/injuries.html

has this info:


Origin of the injuries.
Little is known about the origin of Lord Vader's infirmities. What seems certain is that they result from grave injuries suffered during his career as Jedi Knight and Sith Lord, between the Battles of Geonosis and Yavin. The damage was inflicted in at least two separate incidents, beginning with the loss of 3/4 of his right arm in combat with Count Dooku. According to chronological information given by George Lucas in official interviews, Vader was only aged in his mid forties when he died aboard the Death Star II; his health problems do not result from old age.

In an interview in Starlog in 1980, Mark Hamill recounts a background sketch which he had been told:

"I remember very early on asking who my parents were and being told that my father and Obi Wan met Vader on the edge of a volcano and they had a duel. My father and Darth Vader fell into the crater and my father was instantly killed. Vader crawled out horribly scarred, and at that point the Emperor landed and Obi Wan ran into the forest, never to be seen again."
This quote is not canonical, but it probably includes some elements of what Lucas considered to be the genuine history at that time. In STAR WARS: The Annotated Screenplays, Lucas reveals that he did hold a lava theory "at one point" but he gives no indication whether it is in the present version of the saga. The story may have changed since then, or important details may have been deliberately distorted or kept from Hamill. At least one major change has been made: Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are now identified as the same man. (The second draft of The Empire Strikes Back screenplay tells an alternative story, indicating that Vader fell into a nuclear reactor shaft rather than lava. In this case, his infirmities may have something to do with mutation, radiation sickness and extensive cancer.) The Emperor's supposed involvement is interesting, as is the implication that Vader emerged from the lava under his own strength.

Three years later, aspects of the tale of the molten pit resurfaced in a more official form. In the novelisation of Return of the Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi told Luke Skywalker:

" We fought ... your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever --- he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anakin Skywalker. Irredeemably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will ... "
Later, when Vader lay dying he recalled those painful events:

These were memories he wanted none of, not now. Memories of molten lava, crawling up his back ... no.
This boy had pulled him from that pit --- here, now, with this act. This boy was good.

Yeah in the ROTS Novel Obi said: I found him at the edge of a volcano I tried to talk to him but he was far to consumed by the dark side we fought and he fell into a molten pit of lava i tried to pull him out but he was out my reach i had no choice but to leave him for death

ROTS novel?

Years ago i stumbled onto a site called The Emperors Lair or something, i cant find it anymore, but they had basically a short paragraph on what each of the prequels were going to be about. (This was about a year before TPM came out, mind you). The TPM stuff was accurate, then for Ep2 they said it was going to involve the wedding of Anakin and Padme and the clone wars, and for episode 3 the fall of Anakin. They mentioned the lava and volcano after the Duel.

You could probably figure all that for yourself, but at the time it was like 'yeah im sure THATS gonna happen'. I dont have the OT novels so i dont know about it being in there. This site was the only place i found out about the lava incident.

I'm going to have to dig my old Bantha Tracks out - I'm sure there was an interview with GL in there around the time of ESB pre-production wher he refers to the duel between Vader and Obi wan which results in Vader falling into a "volcano".

Obviously the details have changed drastically and characters have changed roles, vanished completely and been replaced by others as work on the prequels finally got under way.
But, IMO, the basic idea has always been there.

*Obi was responsible for Ani's injuries (in as much as Ani would not have been injured if he had not been fighting his former master).
*A volcano (lava environment) was the setting.

It was just kind of common knowledge in the 80s, wasn't it?.
I remember quite vividly a picture of Vader on the letters page of the Marvel UK comics around the time of ROTJ, with the caption "Vader: Did he fall or was he pushed?" accompanying a letter about the rumour that Obi killed Vader by pushing him in a volcano.

Like I said - I'm sure it all stemmed from a GL interview in Bantha Tracks...

you know what would be hilarious, and really stupid of Lucas? if he didn't do it. It was that... Obi wan did something really weird, like do force lightning on vader? in some random location, and anikin escaped from the volcano/lava pit unscathed.

And the point is?

This is a great thread Jkozzy i also had a question involving Palps, since there was all this discussion in the past as to whether they were the same person or no, i wondered how i knew from the start of ep 1 that they were one and the same, like i said i have no clue how i new this but i do remember KNOWING as soon as we saw then senator palpatine that he was Darth Sidious, Is the name sidious ever mentioned in the OT? or was i just going off the Senator Palpatine/Emperor Palpatine connection?