Molecule Man V's Living Tribunal

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Scoobless
During the Secret wars Molecule Man learned he could control all molecules and not just, as he had previously believed, inorganic
The Tribunal is considered the mack daddy of the MU but Galactus and Beyonder powered Doom told MM he was second in power only to himself

so who's it gonna be?

manjaro
you have got to be shittin me dude

USAgent
I think it be a closer match if it were Molecule man vs the Tribunal's hangnail (of couse the Hangnail would win in about .000001 seconds)

long pig
seriously...what are all MM's powers? plus this is retarded.. heh

The Flash
LT.

Mider
I hate LT fan boys the Living Tribunal pussed out of a fight with korvac he litarally RAN like a wimp and when he confronted the beyonder he just backed down (beyonder from secret wars) if we are discussing the molecular man from secret wars then the LT would have his ass handed to him oh and Korvac at full power and the time twisters can kick his ass too.

KillAll
you do realize that beyonder from secret wars was simply an illusionist??? lol, mider doesnt know much about the heirarchy of marvel, i'd disregard his posts dealing with anything over toad levels of power. cause he doesnt know much wink

leonheartmm
mider do u realize that u just compared molecule man to korvac and THE BEYONDER!!!!!!!!{preretconed}, tribunal might not be on beyonder power level but he can easily blow molecule man a new one.

Zahit
Living Tribunal is the closest thing to God the Marvel Universe has.
He watches over multiple universes. The freakin' multiverse. He can
obliterate anything to safeguard the universe/multiverse.
The only character in the history of comics that can beat
Living Tribunal is God.

Mider
Killall doesnt know much about comics he thinks that Adam Warlock and Death were spared by Thanos with THOTU he also belives that one celestial is more powerful then Galactus. He also doesnt read much about the Beyonder in secret wars and he doesnt do much research on anything since entitites that exist outside of the mulitiverse can at least get away from the LT and other entities do have sufficient power to defeat the LT such as the time twisters who can distroy the entire time line from the end of time to the very beginning. That means they would distroy the LT before he was even born they have the ability to age anyone into dust or make them younger to the point of not existing.

K3VIL
The Living Tribunal is only under TOAA the entity that is the owner of the entire Marvel Universe and other multiverses.The Living Tribunal can simply wipe out of existence MM or transform him into a rabbit, then teleport him into a supernova, resurecct him and kill him again just for the fun.

Beyonder
How nice that you've read his bio...but it still doesn't make it so.

LT says he serves a power that dwarfs Warlock w/ the IG. True, but it doesn't make he second in the MU. 'Cause for LT to rule that the gems not work in unison, he needed Warlock to relinquish the IG in the first place. If LT could've done it with asking Warlock, he would've, yet he didn't. He asked instead. Sure if they struggled over it, LT would eventually come out on top - but it would still be a struggle. And this is all stated in Infinity Watch #1. LT ain't second; it hasn't proven that he is; and bios prove squat.

LT wins; he's not more powerful than the originally intended Beyonder.

K Von Doom
If it's the Molecule Man from Secret Wars, he'd get squashed I think. He needed Doom's reassurance and even during the end of the series it didn't look as though he was that confident using his powers...

Of course, the LT could also lose if he choses to make the sun go nova in order to kill the Molecule Man.

KillAll
they were... he could have dispatched both of them also. they acknowledged this, why cant you????? lol...




1 celestial IS more powerful than galactus...




none of them exist outside the multi-verse of marvel comics. or else they wouldnt be IN marvel comics. only LT exists outside the multi-verse, because he watchs over it.




they can destroy time, in one universe. not all. if there are such characters... just like eternity -could- kill 1 universe. but he couldnt travel from universe to universe killing other universes.





lol, no...



can you show me these characters, and that they have power to work on all realities consecutively???? that they can travel from universe to universe and have power in each and every one of them???? lol, i seriously doubt you can wink

KillAll
how does it not make him second???? lol... LT snapped his fingers and haulted the power of the infinity gauntlet. if you are talking about the dialogue when adam warlock said that it was an assertion that LT had yet to prove.... well LT did prove it. he can control time space.... and everything that the infintiy gauntlet can, but he can do so between all universes...... not just in 1 universe.




he could have done it. he could have stopped the entire infinity gauntlet saga from even happening, but he said it was of natural order for it to exist. therefor he did NOT interfere. but he COULD have.




the struggle would last long enough for LT to think adam warlock to not have the infintiy gauntlet. then the "struggle" would be over.


And this is all stated in Infinity Watch #1. LT ain't second; it hasn't proven that he is; and bios prove squat.





the original beyonder, is the same beyonder after the fact. it was mere illusions wink LT dwarfs them all in power.

Empath
A building block is a connective structure. Since as the tribunal himself stated, he is in service to a master, he falls under some of the power of the molecual man.
So does his boss. The servent is no greater than the master.
Personally me and mine don't have a master, thank God.
Anyhow, if you don't understand the ser. master thing,don't worry. Just think of it as a master's bluff thing.
Therefore, further, the molecual man may well be immune to most of what they can throw at him. The impossible may occur and he would feel some real pain and be stuck with it, but the cost to trib. and oaia would be way to great.

Beyonder
And yet he couldn't snap his fingers and remove the Gauntlet from Warlock. He had to reason with Warlock. He didn't ask Warlock to stop when Warlock was attacking Eternity, he snapped his fingers and restored order. But that only proved that he can interfere with an attack, it doesn't mean LT could've snapped his fingers and Warlock would lose the Gauntlet in an instant.

I'm not arguing that LT isn't stronger than the IG, but it wasn't like his mere wish could've taken the IG out of Warlock's hand. He needed Warlock's approval to no fight back for him to take the Gauntlet.

Now if LT wanted to take it by force, it wouldn't be just a mere thought but a struggle for the Gauntlet, one that LT would EVENTUALLY win - it'd still be a struggle no less. One that would result in the destruction of the universe ask LT himself stated to Warlock.



He could've interfered and fought Thanos for the IG, but it wouldn't be just with a thought and Thanos would lose the Gauntlet.



And what evidence do you have of such? If he could've done such a feat, then why reason with Warlock instead of just thinking of Warlock not having the IG. What's with the statement of "a struggle that would no doubt end the universe" from LT?

Warlock can do almost anything LT could do. LT just has more power behind him, but this doesn't mean LT can just do anything with a mere whim to an IG weilder.



LT says he SERVES a power that dwarfs Warlock's own, not that he IS a power that dwarfs Warlock's own. He's more powerful than the IG, but dwarfing would be a bit much.



Original Beyonder meaning as he was ORIGINALLY INTENDED in SW I & II. In those, he was the supreme being; LT had nothing on him.

What you speak of about ILLUSIONS and such happened way after SW I & II and was the RECKON of the Beyonder character. That reckon was done cause Marvel didn't want a God-like being in it's universe.

Thus: ILLUSION = RECKON
ORIGINAL = BEFORE RECKON

K3VIL
One Celestial is not more powerful than Galactus, Galactus at full power, with his body not hungry for energy, is unstoppable, no physical force can defeat him.In terms of power, he's only under Eternity, Infinity, Lord Chaos, Master Order and the most powerful of all them, the Living Tribunal.

BobbyD
LT.

Empath
again take note that the entire creation of the Universe didnt disturbe the beyonder but owen reeses assumption of power was enough to bring awareness to him.
you guys always tend to overestimate the power and underestimate the character. if Reese wanted to he could wipe out every molecuel in the universe, including his own and still exist

KillAll
a single celestial has shown to be able to do what galactus couldnt do, with the simplest of gestures... a single celestial is above galactus in overall power. marvel has outright said this. please click below.


link : http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing/Celestial_note1.txt

KillAll
if LT can snap his fingers, and hault the attacks of the infinity gauntlet, i'm pretty sure that he could hault it altogether.




he didnt NEED approval. he doesnt always interfere. its not how LT works. he can shut down entire universes (which all contain infinity gauntlets). i'm sure that puts him leaps and bounds above the gauntlets power. you should agree...






yes, LT could simply shut it down... which is the destruction of a universe. if it threatens the multiverse.





eternity nearly beat thanos with the gauntlet, and they were all seeking LT's help. eternity included. to stop thanos from usurping eternity from his spot in the heirarchy of mainstream reality.





whats your proof that he couldnt?? LT is almost the supreme being. the gauntlet to me is only slightly more powerful than eternity. nothing more, nothing less. it only gave the user powers of eternity, on a slightly larger scale. which is why the wearer could take the spot of eternity once he was defeated...




so the infinity gauntlet can shut down entire universe (more than one)???? if a single universe gains/loses too much power and threatens the entire multiverse??? i doubt it.... the gauntlet gives the wielder power over 1 universe, not all.




to each his own i guess...





LT had nothing on him... lol. it doesnt matter how he was "ORIGINALLY INTENDED" because he technically never existed in that state of power. LT has more power than any celestial, i doubt you could argue that. but a single celestial has more power than the beyonder. so weather you like it or not, beyonder isnt that powerful. deal with it.





its RETCON. and it means that the "original" beyonder, is what he was after the retcon... all the time. what he did in secret wars were nothing more than mere illusions. therefor he isnt allmight, or even remotely close to it.

K Von Doom
I wouldn't say Eternity nearly beat Thanos. The Titan didn't look at all tired after that battle, he looked happy. =)

USAgent
Not to get too much off topic, (and yes, I agree that the Beyonder's powers are illusion based), But what does that mean for Venom and Carnage and all the other carnage clones?

I mean Carnage came from Venom, and Venom is Spidey's black alien suit, and Spidey got that suit from one of Beyonder's costume making machines (at least he thought thats what it was) on that planet Beyonder made up. So does that mean that Venom is still a illusion?

Not being a big Spidey fan, I dont know if that got cleared up some where.

Oh, and after reading the Infinity Gauntlet again (one of my favorite reads) it clearly shows that the Tribunal can negate the power of the Gauntlet with just a thought. And Eternity is begging him to do so

Scoobless
ok ..... if the beyonder really was just an illusionist, that would mean the secret wars were all fake and happened in peoples heads (including galactus i assume) so if that's all true where did spider-man's black symbiote costume (venom) really come from?????????????????

Scoobless
guess i should have read the last post before i added my own....... oh well at least i doubled the chances that someone else will see it and attempt to answer

Lord S
First of all LT takes this "fight"...LT needn't even lift his pinky finger.

As for the Celestial vs. Galactus debate, it's widely accepted that even the WEAKEST of the Celestials is equal to, or more powerful than Galactus...but they respect him anyhow because of his place in the Marvel hierarchy.

IRTMU-Dragon
Living Tribunal could snap his fingers and molecule man's powers would be play-doh.

Beyonder
True. Furthermore, Hulk got his leg broken by Utron as well. And when they came back, Colossus was still in love with that girl he met on Beyonder's world. Utron was brought back to life again. And if it was an illusion, where was the Thing when the FF came back without him?

Illusion? I guess the Galactus, the Celestials, Eternity, Death, Mephisto, and even LT imagined it. If LT could just snapped his fingers, then why didn't he do so in SW II and stopped Beyonder?

Furthermore, if he was just an illusionist, I guess Kurse is an illusion of Beyonder as well. You know Kurse don't you? The resurrected Algrim The Strong that was made by the Beyonder to beat Thor (which he did...and Beta Ray Bill as well). The Kurse that is part of Thor's rogue gallery? I guess those punches Kurse lade on Thor and BRB was just an illusion?

Fieldy69
Numinous could kill galactus

BobbyD
LT serves, governs, wields, and judges the MOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST powerful of powers, except One. That one is not named Beyonder.................'nough said.

Beyonder
Yet he couldn't do a thing to Beyonder during SW II. All he did was tried to give Beyonder a talking. laughing

So what if LT serves TOAA. Him serving TOAA has nothing to do with anyone else's powers.

KillAll
the things that beyonder did (his feats) such as beating up the entire celestial host. that was not really the celestials, because beyonder cant even beat 1 of them. the illusions were the actual beings. if galactus would have shown up really, he wouldnt have been repulsed ( i think thats the word used). if the beyonder really fought the celestials he would have been KILLED. those were the illusions. not the actual events that took place with the heroes.





the beyonder does have SOME power. but, its not anywhere near what he was "originally -THOUGHT" to be. he might be able to augment kurse, or a few other people even. but hes not anywhere near the top of the totum pole.






again you fail to realize wink a single celestial would have eaten the beyonder. a single celestial is below eternity. eternity is below LT. you do the math. the extreme beings that showed up during the SW were the illusions. they were beyonder showing off HIS own power. which was creating illusions of beating these higher powered beings.

Scoobless
ok illusions........... i still want a decent explanation about venom and other secret wars story line leftovers

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