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if superman controlled the pheonix force, the source, odin force, the power cosmic, and the enigma force. as well as having the HOTU and infinity gauntlet would he be able to beat the Living Tribunal?

i don't know if he could beat the living tribunal but i do know he would be pretty damn powerful and look REALLY COOL

Most of that power is redundant. If he has the Infinity Gauntlet with all the gems, he's basically all powerful anyway. All those other powers won't give him any abilities he wouldn't otherwise have with the IG.

So it basically comes down to IG vs. LT, which I believe has been done before by Thanos.

how is the pheonix force and odin force redundant? they are totally different! as is the enigma force, power cosmic, and the source! the HOTU has diferent powers than the Infinity gauntlet. and even if they all were the same it would be the Infinity gauntlet times 6

i think that superman with all of these would give him a run for his money

Because the Infinity Gauntlet gives you infinite power.

What's infinity times two? Times six? Times 100? It's still infinity. So adding more power to infinite power is meaningless...it's infinite.

That's like when people on this board talk about degrees of invincibility. Doesn't make sense.

obviously it's not infinate if thanos with the IG lost to LT

ok back to the point, could he take on the big LT with these?

Good point demigawd,

Who knows, goku. Infinity is Infinity. It would probably be a stalemate. Unless Superman retains the whole Kryptonite weakness. Then LT wins.

Living Tribunal asks Superman just what in the hell he's doing with all these powers he isn't suppose to have, then takes them away with a wave of his hand.

Even with all that power (even doubled), he or anyone is still no match for the cosmic entity that keeps order throughout the multiverse.

And demigawd was right, you don't need things like the Odinforce or Phoenix Force when you have the IG or HOTU, because you can pretty much do whatever you want without the other powers to slow you down, until Living Tribunal decides that you're not worthy of such power, and does something like making the IG useless with all the gems together, which he's already done anyways.

yes, but once you have that much power how could LT just wave his hand and make your powers disappear? i mean you would be at his level or a little above or below.

Nah, because LT's power, like the Spectre's, comes from "God" himself. It overrides all other forces that are simply his creation. When LT makes a ruling, it's basically divine power that enforces it. Even the Gauntlet pales before it, and adding those other powers is useless because they all also are created from "God", who empowered LT to just...deactivate them. So Supes loses the way Thanos would if LT ruled against him.

remember when glactus was killed ........ it proves that a cosmic identity can be defeated!!!! he had to be brought back because the universe would collapse with out him, but my point is that a person like galactus or LT can be killed. even though the universe would fall apart soon after.

You can't compare Galactus to LT. They're both "cosmic" but they're on entirely different levels of power. LT doesn't "fight" in the traditional sense. He judges, and his judgment is all powerful because it's essentially divine power. That's totally different from Galactus.

i know, my point is that a cosmic being can be destroyed!

maybe superman couldn't beat LT with these things, but he would most definately be able to defeat anyone else.

A cosmic being can only be destroyed by something more powerful. My point is that the only thing more powerful than LT is TOAA (God). The Infinity Gauntlet and all those other things only exist at the pleasure of TOAA. So yes, with a wave of the hand...poof, gone.

Yeah, he's be able to beat anyone else. Hmm, how about a thread on Superman w/ Infinity Gauntlet (or Aunt May w/ Infinity Gauntlet) vs. Spectre. I think I've seen Spectre be hurt before, so maybe that would be a fight.

if superman had this stuff he would be able to be spectre EASILY

he could probably take on superman prime and 1,000,000 at the same time with that much power

The Heart of the Universe is the strongest force mentioned above...not the Inifinity Guantlet.

Living Tribunal and Superman wouldn't fight it out...it would be a matter of wills.

Superman with the Heart of the Universe would eliminate the Living Tribunal. Thanos with HotU successfully eliminated everything...Living Tribunal was powerless to do anything about it. Superman would be the same way.

Unfamiliar with the HOTU. Anybody have any info on that?

I highly recommend you pick up Marvel Universe: The End.

An ancient Pharaoh gets abducted as a youth by aliens with seemingly unimaginable power. Hundreds of years later this Pharaoh comes back to earth now possessing this unimaginable power.

He offers all of the worlds leaders an opportunity to live if they are willing to unquestionably follow him. I don't exactly remember but I think he was trying to do something similar to what Cable was doing in the Cable/Deadpool series. Only through violence.

Superheroes stood up to him, and fell. Somehow, someway Thanos and a crew like the Defenders find the Pharaohs spaceship and board it. Thanos and the group reach the part of the station that has the HotU and they find out it's a machine...not an artifact.

Thanos jumps into it and doesn't just become all powerful....he becomes one with the universe. He doesn't just sense the plants, animals, and various forms of matter....he is one with them.

He decides to wipe out all of existence (kind of like how he killed 1/2 the universe in IG) Then he realizes that he is left with nothingness. In a last ditch effort Thanos undoes all that he did and everything the Pharaoh did in order to restore peace to the universe.

It's a great series. A bunch of cosmic beings get toasted in it.

Yeah "The End" was great! I still read it every now and then...and I agree that with the HOTU, Supes wouldn't need any of those other power-ups, including the IG. LT would get smoked!

THANK YOU

i didn't understand why they were saying supes would get smoked!!! i mean with the HOTU and the ifinity gauntlet he could do it...... but with the source odin force etc. IT WOULD BE A FAIRLY EASY "FIGHT"

I guess a lot of people accept that LT is the top dog in the MU (which I do as well), and haven't red "The End", and are not aware of exactly what the "Heart" is.

LT

the HOTU is the source of power for TOAA why are you people even depating this if he had all these powers he would kick the LT's ass in one second.

HOTH > LT. Superman wins.

not only does he win...... he mutilates LT and steals his shoes

Yeah, I'd never heard of the Heart before. Man, those zany cats at Marvel, always coming up with some new artifact of uberness for Thanos or Doom to get their hands on...

yup

I dont know were you guys get this crap about the LT having so much power i mean what comics did you read were he just waved his hands and did this or snap his fingers and did that he couldnt even beat Korvac and Korvac was only as power as one universe and even then he wasnt as powerful as every single living thing in the universe. His judgement is all powerful? Korvac withstood his judgement and it doesnt matter if it was in a What if comic for you LT fan boys you should know there is only one LT and thus it couldnt have been an LT from THAT reality Korvac gained the powers of every living being on earth, the grandmaster, the stranger, gardener, the in-betweener, the shaper of worlds its there in pen and ink yet you guys still go on about how LT is so powerful when he cant even handle a few guys who are on the same level as the elders of the universe. LT would show up and wave his hand at superman prime and then superman prime would take his arm break it off and smack the shit out of LT while the normal superman with the heart of the universe and IG and all those other things would wipe the LT out of existance and all of you guys would cry rivers and rivers of tears cause the pussy LT is dead. The Living Tribunal is over powered but he in reality has no real power on the level everyone says he is eternity calls him a peer not even a supirior. DEATH TO THE LIVING TRIBUNAL

lol.

oookaaaaay.

The issue with korvac your refering is a "What-If", and therefore isn't cannon in the marvel universe but the appearance of Living Tribunal himself IS cannon. Think of it as that the story never really took place but the Living Tribunal that appears in the story is the same Living Tribunal that appears in the regular Marvel Universe.

Any reference to Living Tribunal being weak was just for the sake of pushing the story foward in the "What-If".

Secondly, Korvac did not withstand a direct judgement from the Living Tribunal.

In the issue however:
Living Tribunal caused the sun to go supernova but Korvac shielded earth and himself from the explosion. He never really employed a direct judgement on Korvac like he did on the infinity gems. LT then just decided to cut his losses and cut off any access to that universe. The universe was more trouble that it was worth to Living Tribunal.

Additional Note: That issue was written in 1982 well before MANY cosmic characters were written into play.

Also in reference to the heart of the universe, Living Tribunal, Eternity, and Infinity were able to resist it's power initially longer than any other being in the entire multiverse. Even if Thanos had the "ultimate power" it should be considered a FEAT that Living Tribunal was able to resist its power at all.

so the Living Tribunal just dreamed it all? cut his losses? i thought he was supposed to protect the universes he just pussed out and left and Korvac didnt exactly look like that judgement affected him in the least. Living Tribunal i guess the LT is the greatest entity in Marvel it just seems stupid to me for people to say he is most powerful in DC too witch some of them do DC entities would hand the LT his ass

Living Tribunal monitors an endless amount of alternate universes. Why should he waste his time on a single universe when he can just seal off that particular universe from the multiverse and be done with it?

She has a point.

Cannot understand how can you make threads with beings like LT, Eternity, Infinity, Entropy, Michale, Lucifer, Spectre, and the powerful In-Betweener
They are beings that can warp reality at their pleasure or just wipe out you with a cosmic blast and being unaffected by your attacks.
It's a battle of who blinks the eye first and wipe out the other from exsistence wins.

well there are different level of entities in both universe like ladder steps. yes they are all uber powerful but one is stonger than the other , more authority , etc

But to the superheros(mortals) it doesn't matter which of these entity they are facing, they will parish within seconds.

but here is what proving in COmics LT is currently supreme entity of all other cosmic beings in marvel (expect TOAA)

and The presense , Or Specter are highest in DC

I guess people like to agree point which are very hard to debate who are more powerful since most of these have infinate power and people argue in circle saying this guy has more power than infinte etc.

The simple fact you'd have to give someone the power of the Supreme God itself as the only means to beat a character kind of speaks volumes in itself...

Oh, and I sense some Stan-ism in this thread.

Someone with sufficient power can't just be blinked out of existence. Thanos with the IG couldn't do it to a cosmic being like Galactus. If the Starbrand were involved, the LT would be quite alarmed as he doesn't have authority over it.

ok.....fist of all kgkg TOAA is a CELESTIAL!!!! NOT GOD!!!!!!! thanks. and also i highly doubt LT coud just blink supe prime out of existence once he is that powerful. i think prime wins and then either takes on the role of LT before the universe disappears or the universe ends shortly after LT is "dead"

Yes we know that TOAA is a Celestial...but when LT refers to his master, he is not referring to that Celestial...he is referring to God.