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I have noticed that many people go out of their way to insult christians and to throw mud on the christian faith. One person i saw on a post made a suggestion that christians have some of their right taken away. Why would people be so set against someones elses belief? Why is it such a obsession to some people to debunk christianity?
Jesus told his people that they would be ridiculed on account of him. It seems to me when people go out of their way to insult and take jabs at christians they are only making christs predictions accurate and thus it comes to a christians mind jesus spoke of this i will pray and remain strong in the faith. If anything people that sneer and blast christians just give christians more of a reason to pray and become closer to their god and to walk even stronger in their faith. Maybe in some cases the people that do this to christians are actually doing gods will to his followers stronger in their faith.

Maybe but then you'll find Christians that go out of their way to have a go at people who arent Christians. I dont think you can be attacked for believing it - what you believe is up to you but no religion is perfect and i guess people just like to point that out to reaffirm why they dont believe in it. But yeah I agree some people do go over the top.

It is really sad that people do this.Christians are the only reglion people are not afraid to spit all over.If it was jewish or Musim then it is different.
Stupid people are so closed mined these days.JM

people are prepared to spit all over judaism and islam - they just dont do it on this board cos theres no jews/muslims that react. well none that ive seen. would make a boring thread if noone reacted.

What JackieMalfoy and you just said offends me somewhat, dear sir/madam.
Nobody does those sort of things to Jewish or Muslim people online here because:
1) Both Religions and peoples have suffered greatly over the last many centuries, (mostly at the hands of Christians <or amongst themselves&gt, and most self-respecting people show both of the groups the proper respect that they both diserve.
And,
2) People don't want to get banned from the boards.

I daresay it's high-time that we start on the Christians.

What a joke!!! First of all not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is one. Also, there are extremes on all sides. But all and all Christian
bashing is always going on. Try this, watch TV for a week. Write down
1. Muslim 2. Buddha, 3. Christian 4. etc. and see for your self which ones get more bashes. Now on Monday turn in your reports. Or you'll get a detention.

You can blame people like that woman who was on "Wife Swap" last night for the type of negative publicity Christians often get.

You know I love that show, and I missed it last night. Was watching Heart and Souls...So funny. Maybe they'll replay the wife swap show.

"and most self-respecting people show both of the groups the proper respect that they both diserve."

what do you think of people in the christian faith, arc, do they deserve respect?

some yes, some no

First, "there are extremes on all sides" is an equivocally untrue statement.

Second, the assertion that all religions should be criticized equally is ridiculous because not all religions deserve the same degree of criticism.

There has never been an act of violence performed in the name of Buddhism. However, many acts of violence have been performed in the name of Christianity; from the Crusades, to the Spanish inquisition, to the Salem witch trials, to murdering abortion doctors, the list goes on.

Does Buddhism deserve the same amount of bad press as Christianity? Is it fair to compare the two? Your whole argument is ridiculous.

I have a healthy hate for Xians in general. They are the root, stem and apple of the majority of the evil in this world.

Like I said "Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian IS ONE."

Although I do find some of your posts both entertaining or insightful, I have to admit that the use of your word Xian for Christian is annoying. It is not a real word (except when used in context of the city of Xian) nor is it a recognised substitute for Christian (as Xmas is for Christmas). I don't know if you created this word and are now trying to make it hip or fashionable, but whatever your reason, it is not working.

It is not for a love of Christianity that this bothers me, it's just out of respect for basic communication and language skills.

Xian - A city of central China southwest of Beijing. The capital (221-206 B.C.) of the Qin dynasty, it is a major commercial center and the capital of Shaanxi province. Population: 2,872,539.

There are on the order of 1,500 denominations, para-church organizations, and other groups in the U.S. who consider themselves to be Christian. Added to this are thousands of independent Christian congregations which are not affiliated with a denomination.

One could assemble a random group of adults and ask each individual to sort the 1,000 groups into two piles: those which are "truly" Christian, and those that are not.

In some cases, an individual will select their own faith group as the only truly Christian denomination, and define all of the other 999 as sub-Christian, quasi-Christian, or non-Christian. Other individuals might say that all 1,000 denominations are Christian. Most likely, a given individual will select most of the 1,000 groups as Christian, and reject the others.

There is no possibility of reaching a common definition which would identify which groups are "truly" Christian, so for the purposes of this discussion, any individual who devoutly regards himself as Christian is Christian.

What I mean adam Poe, is that the title "Christian" does not make you one. It's your actions. There are extreme "Christians" tht to me don't much show that they are one. The crusades, for one, was barbaric in the name of God. Also the Inquisition, and many many other things. There are also extremists in other groups as well.

To be a Christian is just trying to follow Christs example. THAT'S IT.

Who are you to say those people were not true Christians? They were so devout in their belief in Christianity that they were willing to kill in the name of it. Surely, they would consider themselves Christians.

Because to be a Christian is to be Christ like, and some of the things that I've read they did, were torturous, and evil on both the Muslim and Christian sides. Though their motives were good, if indeed they were.

I don't think it's right to boil people alive, for instance, and that's some of the things they did.

That does not change the fact they are Christians.

Someone that forgives those that trespass' against them, someone that trys to help the needy, someone that does not condone violence and someone that trys to make the world a better place as christ taught. You have a "healthy" hatred for them ou?
by the way what nationality are you?
because anyone here who is germen i have news for you. Germen Nazis burned people in ovens. Now should we judge a germen man today for the crimes committed by germens in the past? Should you have a healthy hatred for germens??
Anyone here American? because i will tell you one thing if you are you personaly ( according to Low Hoo) are responsible for slavery. I think everyone should have a healthy hatred for americans as well don't you Low hoo?
Hey guys lets not forget to include anyone who has middle eastern decent ok? You should according to Low hoo have a great hatred for them because there have been middle eastern people that have killed women, for if they wish ,no reason and it is lawfull. How many people have been killed by terroeists?? yea i think you should hate them too don't you Low hoo?
So lets see so far you should have a healthy hatred towards americans germens anyone with middle eastern decent and christians. I am sure we can all hate the whole world if we try hard enough guys.
I wonder if its possible there are good americans? Maybe good germens???? maybe good middle easterners? now wait Low hoo, wrap your brain around this one, is it possible christians have done good things inn the world and there are many that are good people????

My post made people angry....

moviejunkie> MEh, I give Christians the respect they deserve - when they give it out.
An example:
I know some Christians, who happen to be friends of mine, who follow the Holy Bible, (King James Version, I believe), mostly skimmingly. Yet they are the most "Christian" Christians I know!
What I mean by this is, they seem to me to be the perfect epiphany of what Christianity should be: They completely and utterly accept other people, no matter what their religion or beliefs into their hearts.
I think I'm not getting my point across here, (I'm not good a explaining myself when talking about Religion). Oh well.

no arc, we agree with eachother more than you think. You have a healthy respect for a christian that is loving of others correct?? Well they are merley following what jesus laid out for them. Christians are taught by jesus from scripture to be like that, not to be throwing stones at everyone and anybody. You can have your own ideas of right and wrong and not be hatefull and judging.
I respect you allot for saying that, you can see the dif between someone who is using his religeon as an excuse to be hatefull to others and someone that is actually following a path of peace love and respect.
What bothers me is when people lump all christians into one group. I have seen it so many times in these threads i can't even count how many times. For instance hoo said that he has a healthy hatred for christians is genral , implying he hates all of them. So your friends that are christians are hated by hoo just by assosiation of being a christian.
that is wrong and dangerous and if that sort of thought gets strong enough and reaches enough people something terrible may happen in the future to peacefull loving christians. Look at nazi germeny. They were under the thought all jews were evil. This sort of attitude that all of one type of person should be hated (healthy hatred if your hoo) resulted in thousands and thousands of innocent people being buthered.

Wow....I actually agree with that post, (or most of it)!
scared
Oh no, I'm growing soft-hearted!

its ok i suppose if we agree......sssooommmtttiiimmmeeessss

but just don't make a habit out of it ok arc

jk

*Adds moviekunkie23 to "People I Sometimes Don't Mind..." list*

I really don't care what you think about the word. It's easily understood and if you don't like it, don't use it. Prescriptivism is never a honorable trait. Language changes over time, so move with the flow and don't try to plug a dam with a sponge.

To back this up, I've got my good friend, Chaucer here to offer us this: "In forme of speeche is chaunge."

As for the relativity of 'Xian' as a city, it is a rather moot point. You are translating a Chinese word using the English alphabet. There are many different systems of doing this such as Wade-Gilles, who would refer to the same city as 'Hsian'.

Now back to the topic...

Xians have always been the most fervant imperialists not restricted to the alligence of a single country - although the US is currently baring the flag.

'German,' 'American,' and 'Middle-easterner' are nationalities.

'Nazi,' 'slave trader,' and 'terrorist' are ideological groups.

Guess which category 'Christian' belongs to?

Youre picking, (your nose?) just kidding


youre picking, they are still groups.

as for your comment debb is correct in saying they are all Germens,Americans,Middle-easterners, islamics, jews, christians, africans, asians, ect ect ect ect, and all of these people have bad seeds but you can't lump them all into one group of saying they are ALL evil unless you want to sound like Hitler refering to jews. According to the Nazis it was the jews that were the source of everyones misery, according to hoo it seems like it must be christians. Pick your own specific group it all boils down to Hitler style hatred.

One does not choose his nationality, e.g. German, American, Middle-eastern.

One does choose to be a part of a member of an ideological group, e.g. Nazi, slave trader, terrorist.

Entire nationalities are not inherently bad but entire ideological groups certaily can be.

I don't criticize other beliefs, even if they don't believe as I do. Many of my friends believe differently then me. I just tell them what I think and they tell me what they think.

There are groups and subgroups, all kinds of groups. You can't lump any group together and call them all good or all bad.

I can safely lump Nazis, slave traders, and terrorists together as all bad.

It's the way the media displays Christians. Often negatively.

The media would not be able to portray Christians negatively if they only did positive things.

Not true...The media portrays gays as all good, when some are doing negative things, Huh?

great expectation, everyone within a group to be perfect and never do anything wrong, are we forgeting christians are human

Brain washing.....say something often enough and people will believe it.
Adam. You can't group everyone together. What group(s) do you belong to?
Should I criticize it? Should I lump you into one?

yes poe for the sake of discussion please state your race, religeon and political orientation. Lets see if your ethnicity beliefs and politics are blameless.

In actuality, homosexuals are often demonized in the media, particularly by talk radio. But, by all means, please list all the negative things gays do that go unreported by the media.





I never stated that Christians must never make mistakes. What I did state is that one cannot be made out to be bad if he is not bad, or if you prefer, one cannot be made out to be bad if he only does good works.





It should be fairly obvious that my race is human, and considering that an entire ethnicity or nationality cannot be inherently bad, that information is irrelevant. My religion is Buddhist and my political party is Libertarian. Good luck with you witch hunt.

"I never stated that Christians must never make mistakes. What I did state is that one cannot be made out to be bad if he is not bad, or if you prefer, one cannot be made out to be bad if he only does good works. "

there is no group on the face of earth that only does good works. There are plenty of gay people that do bad things, so do you group the entire gay population as "bad". because your saying one cannot be made out to be bad if he only does good works. So when a gay person does something wrong you can make out that gay people are bad?

"It should be fairly obvious that my race is human, and considering that an entire ethnicity or nationality cannot be inherently bad....."

actually Poe you have said the hum dinger of them all....you are human. The race you belong to is responsible for countless murder, rape molestation, stealing, war, hatred, intolerance and outright evil.
If you wish to lump a christian into a group of people you unfavor based upon bad decisions made from other christians you must also lump yourself into a category that has committed a infinite amount of more suffering, being human of course.

So, should I judge you as an individual??

First, there are groups that only do good works; from Buddhist monks to humanitarian organizations.

Second, for your analogy to be logically equivalent, all homosexuals would have to share a common ideology; they do not.





Did you forget that whether or not a group is bad is a determination of behavior and ideology and not an inherent characteristic?

i thought a person chooses to do right and wrong
as a chrsitian you are taught to do good
you are taught to feed the hungry
you are taught to love thy neigbor
you are taught not to kill
you are taught not to steal
you are taught to pray for your enemies
you are taught to be the great you must first serve
you are taught that love is very important
you are taught to forgive
you are taught to give to society

these are christian priciples taught by jesus. If you follow them as a christian your behavior will produce good things.

"Did you forget that whether or not a group is bad is a determination of behavior and ideology and not an inherent characteristic?"

so if a christian follows the ideology and the urged behavior from jesus' teachings will the group do good or bad things Poe?

Besides Adam, I don't really think you're a Buddist. I know a little about their philosophy, and your conversations don't confirm their teachings.
You must be a bad Buddist.

It depends on the totality of his actions and the whole of his ideology. Does praying for one's enemy justify trying to take away his rights? Is his idea of giving to society, ruling all other according to his belief? Is love only important when it is between to members of the opposite-sex?





Do not presume to know that which you do not.

Oh man that was hard hitting !!!!!!!!!!
be nice debb !!!!! Its hard to live up to religeos standards!!!

I agree. I'm glad all Buddists arn't bad. That would be judging a whole group of people.

"It is unsuitable to have intercourse in an inappropriate orifice..." this is a part of the Dakini teachings of buddism

this is a buddist teaching. Now when you are in gay sex are you not using what they term as a inappropraite orifice?? so i ask you does buddism say love is olny for those of the opposite sex? If you believe in it and your buddist then do you agree with the buddist teachings??

"Does praying for one's enemy justify trying to take away his rights? Is his idea of giving to society, ruling all other according to his belief?"
you asked

please state where jesus tried to take peoples rights away. If anything he scolded the pharisees for holding the people down and giving them burdens they coudn't handle. Jesus taught for people to live in peace together and to respect eachother. You can view your beliefs and be respecting. Jesus doesn't condone taking rights i don't know where you get that from.
Jesus said he came to serve, and told his disiples to serve the people that were around them. Jesus did not tell his diciples to conquer by the sword and have global domination or something to that sort.

your point ealier was a persons idealogy determins wether they do right or wrong, well if follow jesus' ideology you are doing good things such as all the things i stated he teaches. Do you understand my point Poe???

To clarify, a dakini is a female supernatural being whose purpose is to help those in pursuit of spiritual advancement overcome obstacles. This concept and its related teachings are exclusive to Tibetan Buddhism which I do not follow. I practice modern Buddhism which is a philosophy of ethical behavior, not a religion.





I did not state that Jesus advocated taking away the rights of others. I was illustrating that one can pray for his enemy and still try to do him harm. The point is that whether one is good or bad is a determination of the sum of his actions, not just some of his actions.

by endorsing praying and loving your enemy i doubt christ meant to do them harm. Do you love and pray for someone you are trying to harm? If you TRULY love and pray for someone would you not treat them with love and kindness? If you follow jesus by his sum and not some( as you say) of what his teachings were you will show your enemy love and treat them with love.

very communistic

so did Gandhi

that away you get run over

then the christian church really misunderstood and the christian faith was built by sinners

I think many in the christian church misunderstood His message, but yes the faith was built by sinners...That's what I meant when I said that not everybody who says their a christian is one. You have to really be
trying to follow Jesus example as Moviejunkie said earlier.

"In truth there was only one Christian ever, and he died on the cross." Nietzsche

There was only one PERFECT Christian and He died on the cross.

Who is Nietzche ?

a bore

quote:
If anything he scolded the pharisees for holding the people down and giving them burdens they coudn't handle.
very communistic

how is that a form of communism for a religeos leader to speak against legalism.


quote:
Jesus taught for people to live in peace together and to respect eachother.
so did Gandhi

yea who here is attacking buddism?

quote:
were you will show your enemy love and treat them with love.
that away you get run over

the vikings didn't have a problem with fighting and killing their enemies but i don't see their culture alive and well

quote:
Jesus did not tell his diciples to conquer by the sword and have global domination or something to that sort
then the christian church really misunderstood and the christian faith was built by sinners

Actually everyone is a sinner finti. Every single walk of life people have done terrible things including vikings and every other type of people. Christians are human, you will see evil in christians. But what is important is there is a message out there that speaks against it and even if a group of people ignore it the message is still there and the message is to do good things.
I don't know why you have put a higher standard on christians than everyone else though, but now that I think about it maybe it is appropraite considering what high standards christians are taught.

We submitted to the chrisitan faith since the Vikings didnt enforce their beliefs upon others it kind of died out. If they had enforced it though the situation in Europe might have been a bit different cause then the chrisitans would have two fronts to fight, Vikings from the North and the advancing muslims form southeast

Im not, i dont set my moral code by the phony bible so I dont have to beg forgiveness all the time since those code is impossible to follow, so the church came up with pray for forgiveness for your sins and you will be forgiven and your place in heaven is secure. What a load of crap, the chrisitans have always altered the bible to their benefit.

christians did that themselves, they set that standard they think they have over non christians.

oh and Gandhi wasnt a buddhist he was a hindu

as of this alive and well stuff, the culture is kept alive through the music, poetry(the tradition of how to tell them) trade routes that stll are used, words of the Norse(language of the Vikings) that are used in Everyday English language(sky, egg, cake, skin, leg, window, husband, fellow, skill, anger, flat, odd, ugly, get, give, take, raise, call, die,they, their, them) ship building and navigation.

in the way of breaking down the hierarchy, the all is equal part

No, their really was only one Christian and he died on the cross - think about that. You can only really be a Chriatian when you are exactly as perfect as Jesus was - Jesus was a perfectly normal human being - if he could do it, so can anyone else who wants to be a christian, but people who call themselves Christians today are just too lazy.

Friedrich Nietzsche was a German philosopher - the most influential modern philosopher. He also said "God is dead!". He also said that he can never believe in a god who wants to be praised all the time. And he said that their cannot be a God, because if there was one we would not be able to believe we are not god.

By saying "God is dead", he meant that people killed God - they do not need a god in their lives anymore - people have achieved enlightenment throught science, rational thinking and technology.

So Neitzche is where you get your philosophy? Curious?

In reference to the original post: Some of us try to debunk Christianity because we like to try to get people to wake up and see that there is a lot wrong with the religion. Although I personally don't discriminate, I do the same for all religions.

The most overrated philosopher ever. A total nutcase that lost his mind and end up in a mental institution because of his ideas. Master and slave is what he preach BAH! The guy was a bitter old anti-religion philosopher.

Nietzsche was the most infuential modern philosopher. He did not end up in a mental institution because of his ideas, but because of Syphilus - Syphilus infects the brain and causes insanity - he was only insane in the last ten years of his life, YOU IGNORAMOUS! Dom your research before you insult a great mind. There's no place here for f*cking ignorance! How did you become a moderator - it's a shame!

people is allowed to a personal opinion, not everyone consider philosophers as great minds

Well, windancer's opinion and insult is completely unsubstantiated - he based it on innacurate information about Nietzsche's insanity. That is unforgivable!

insult? it aint an insult its an opinion of a man long gone.

Nietzsche did not end up in a mental institution because of his ideas, but because of Syphilus - Syphilus infects the brain and causes insanity - he was only insane in the last ten years of his life.

It's indeed an insult to someone whose ideas still live on when Windancer said the following: (Look at the above to see that his opinions are completely void of any reason, as he based it on lack of information or ignorance of it.)
"The most overrated philosopher ever. A total nutcase that lost his mind and end up in a mental institution because of his ideas. Master and slave is what he preach BAH! The guy was a bitter old anti-religion philosopher. "

it aint an insult at all FN was a very controversial writer that someone "inults" Friedrich is just a thing you have to accept .In the 10 last years of his life he was a nutcase, and that Windancer said he was overrated is a personal opinion which he is entitled too.

He was insane for the last ten years of his life, BUT before that he produced great ideas. If Winddancer can't see that, he's no philosopher or intellectual.

depends on the person who views them

it is all a matter of opinion whether FN`s ideas were great or not

His ideas must've been great to have influenced so many acclaimed intellectuals.

Ultimately it does come down to opinion, but those of the opinion that Nietzsche's ideas were not great, simply have senseless opinions and no real intellectual cares about those people's insignificant opinions who ignores someone like Nietzsche.

Philo follows the religion of Nietzschism.

Personally I don't care for half of his musings. I guess that ceases to make me an intellectual eh philo. I think I can deal with that.

Isn't it interesting that one man can be criticized for his ideas....and be really defended, but if some try to defend another man, we are criticized.
A man that influenced many people. He called called names by you both. Jesus. I'm allowed to have opinions about great men too.

Jesus merely taught people the common sense of everyday moral behaviour - he taught it to people who didn't have common sense. Someone with common sense and who can think for himself doesn't need Jesus to tell him what is good and what is bad - it's prety obvious to a human of basic intelligence.

at Storm for being so ignorant of intellectual matters.

You' re too funny. Ignorant must be one of your favorite words.

IGNORANCE IS AN BOTHERSOME FLY TO INTELLECTUALS.

No that would be "idiot" he throws that one around alot too along with unoriginal.

how would you know

I love it when people try to act intellectual onbehalf on so called intellectual writers.

The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

- Daniel J. Boorstin -

Jesus stated more than just a moral life to immoral people, He claimed to be able to take away sins, if one believed in the shedding of his blood.

immoral, who knows how moral jesus and his diciples acted toward each other. Moral from the views of a christian perspective that is

Refrain from calling people ignorant. I dont want to warn you again. Your insults are getting tiresome, so stop it.

Oh No! I have insulted a great mind! that! He was a nutcase and died a nutcase. End of story and get over it will ya. Nietzsche was nothing more than atheist that took everything serious in life! Thats why he died bitter and lonely and looney.

How did I became a moderator? Ask Raz! He gave me the spot!

I like some stuff Nietzsche said, although he was a hard misogynist.

He changed the way we view language theory today - before it was thought that 'picture-word' theory was true. When he came along he challenged the idea - what picture do we have in out heads when we say ''truth''? Its subjective.

Loony or not loony, he is regarded, and always will be regarded as one of the great philosophers of our time.

Don't get me wrong I'm only saying Nietzche was looney tunes, but he was far far away from being an idiot. During his sanity years he was indeed a great thinker. Besides he said some naughty things about Plato and Socrates in his writings. So basically I'm only doing Plato and Socrates a little bit of justice. I have respect for him, but I just don't take him too serious.

How original to quote from someone else to back you up! At least I took the trouble to construct my own dictum: IGNORANCE IS A BOTHERSOME FLY TO INTELLECTUALS.

Well, illusion of knowledge? tell that to your self. I don't claim to have knowledge...knowledge is in any case not indicative of intelligence - intelligence is the ability to think logical and rational and creative on a superior level.

Anyway, if one is ignorant, one surely will not discover anything, not even one's own ignorance!

lil bitchiness, stop being so f*cking bitchy! I am allowed to call people ignorant if they are - what the hell is your problem - jealous of me?

Oh and Windancer, stop blowing wind out of your ass!

great call coming from one who drags in the likes of Einstein in his replies

That's it! I don't care if you call me names or insult my posts. But that attitude towards lil bitchiness isn't acceptable! Take some days off the board.

You know, i was meant to read tons about him, and i never did I blagged my way through it.

But you're right. Thats great thinkers for you

Thank you!

catwoman

You came up to my expectations, very predictable reply.

You also probably took the trouble to construct your own dictum when you quoted Nietzsche.

Bye.

What the f*ck is insulting about calling someone ignorant!? Windancer and lil bitchiness, the two of you are childish in being affected by me calling people ignorant. This forum seems to me to be flooded by total f*ucking no-brainers, no philosophers. Well, screw all of you moderators acting like police men!

Hello and bye again Philosophicus.

That has just earn you a permanent ban.

edit

edit

I am going to continue on banning your ass till you stop this nonsense.

Philo, aka mind aka poet aka teop. You are a sad individual worthy of much pity.

Aka Chain Smoker if I' m not mistaking.

Sorry, I forgot that one.

wasn't mind a sock too?

your mind maybe

Already mentioned mind, looks like we can add "worm" to the list as well now. This guy needs psychiatric help.

crap my bad Kharma

Everyone please let's ignore the troll and keep this on topic. Let's just keep it cool with no bashing and continue with the discussion. If there is any more disruptions please make reports. And don't feed the troll anymore. Thank you.

Can we please just stop........??

To think or not

To think or not -
That is the burning question that haunts all desperate minds.
And through the spheres of our temporal fantasies,
We will long suspended in such infinity as a dreaming thought - that far off,
Misty breathing of our soft, thin flight of truth
Will stretch in a single flux of lightest, soaring being!

Feeding a troll only makes him more hungry.

This thread's lost its purpose, we can all thank this guys socks for that.


Closing.