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What is being? Can anyone ever define being/existence as such? What would be the difference between existence as such and non-existence as such - I am not refering to the existence of individual entities, but to existence/being proper, or all that is.

Maybe another question, can anyone tell me what it means to exist as an individual human being? Why is there being, rather than nothingness - again refering to being in an 'absolute' cosmological sense.

I believe god made us all for a reason and has a special plan for each of us.What it is I am not sure.That is the only reason I think of why we exist.JM

the reason we exist, is for us to experience life... merely that.. although some of us die young... I don't know about that...

Some say that it is out of coincidence that we exist... maybe it is...

Being is to be aware, while also having the ability to have an impact on our surroundings

So do you believe that god made us because he has perfect plans for us or not?JM

None of you have answered the question - I'm asking for a definition of being - how in the ultimate sense can we define being? What is being and what is nothingness? And how can you, satsujin, say that being is to be aware....plants are not aware, yet they still have being.

Being is a physical state of existence. Awareness is the self acknowledgement of one's one being and one's effect on their environment and the effect of that environment on them.

I just woke up, but it sounds o.k. to me. However, I have a feeling Philo's gonna try to pound this one into the dust.

Your description of awareness seems fine, but the question here is about being as such - You say that it's a physical state of existence, but I'm not pondering what the state of being is, rather existence as such, or being as such.

So, the question remains, what is existence/being as such?

Existence or being "as such" is merely a presence that occupies a space in time. When you cease to occupy a space in time, then you cease to be or cease to exist.

Consciousness

Generally, people only define an object' s existence by its relation to other objects and actions it undertakes.

VEry impressive!!! thumbup

To have consciousness and thought would be invisible and not really in relation to other objects and the actions it undertakes.

To "be" would be thought or thinking on some level of continuousness. It is invisible

I also like what you said KharmaDog.

No, still none of you have answered the question. All of you seem to be misunderstanding: I'm NOT refering to the existence or consciousness of a being(human, plant, animal, or any other entity for that matter) - I'm talking about BEING AS SUCH - ALL THAT IS, as in the universe/cosmos or infinity/eternity - the eternity of being - the greatness of existence as the container for all individual beings - the infinite continuum as such! What is being- not the being of an individual, but pure being.

Also, being cannot be equated to thought or thinking, then one is implying that only aware beings(humans) exist, but what about plants which cannot think - don't they have being as well?

Kharmadog, you describe being with 'presence', while the question is about being/presence - I want to know what exactly is presence in itself.

I'm also not talking about relations between objects/entities, as that refers to individual beings, I am talking about mere being - the one 'object' of being - the eternal continuum of existence which contains all other individual beings.

How much clearer do I have to make it. Why is there being rather than nothingness - Being on a cosmological scale(the one infinity of existence) - not the existence of individual entities.

the way i see it..
existence is a a term which defines a concept based on our ability to experience sense of self. that ability allows us to wonder about the existence of all the things our self interracts with.
a plant, as you said, exists..but it does not question it's existance...it can't...we do it for her.
as for reason...what makes you think there is a reason?
and if there is...we probably learn it late in life. if we find any happiness at all

I never refered to reason. Still what exactly is that sense of self as such- define that. What is being in its purest, abstract form?

Well, I was reading a book for my philosophy class the other day, and read something regaurding "being", some ideas from a philosopher (I don't remember which one). His thought was, he knows he exists because of his conciousness, which makes sense.

Still, what is Being? No one seems to be able to define mere being.
Consciousness...what about plants - don't they exist then!?

not to them, they don't. they exist from our point of view.
and in the absence of a proper definition for being....i see no other choice then to call it a corelative concept....it being defined based on the opposition with another concept....nothingness.

Everything has an importance of oneself.. plants supply other animals and humans with food, and the cycle continues... There is a meaning of life of humans... WILL.. you achieve what you want by will.. everyone have an ambition... PEOPLE LIVE THEIR LIVE TO FUFILL EACH OF THEIR AMBITIONS.... that is the meaning of existence... for humans...

For Plants, it'll be to supply other mammals with food... that is their role in earth...

As for other mammals, that I will leave you to think that for yourself...

Well o.k., the question you want answered finally makes sense to me (I think). The question was kinda lost in there, but let's see if I have it now.

What is being on a cosmological scale, presense, universal existence, in a word and in the most simple way possible, I think I would have to say "being" is time.

KharmaDog: "I think I would have to say "being" is time."

What is time? We are looking for a description, not an equation with another questionable concept such as time. Even if you do equate being with time, then what is time? where does it come from? why is there time rather than its absence?

You are the closest to the meaning of universal being. It is true that plants, or any other entities for that matter only exist for us as self-conscious beings. And I too accept that there is no real, proper definition for being, it is indeed something impossible to define as it is the most absolute sphere of awareness we are delving into when we talk about 'being as such'. We can also say that nothingness does not exist - there's only being...we cannot talk about nothingness when we have 'being' and only know being ourselves. Nothingness canot be 'touched' from the condition of being.

what are you talking about....
time is a concept ...perceived only by us. to any other animal..the closest refference to time is the order they carry out certain activities...or the slight sense of duration (long/short) on them.
and there come humans..putting all that in one word.....and then starting to question it's existence.....this is farther than i'm willing to question..just for the sake of philosophy

Philo - do you believe that you have the absolute "correct" answer to this question?

well if nothingness existed, it would seize to be nothing, would it not
then again...when we talk about these two notions like this...i feel like actually trying to reach the logical solution in a dilemma like: if god is allpowerful, can he build a wall over which he cannot jump?

it's simply a contradiction of concepts..it is either one, or the other.
lucky for us as a species that we can comprehend the limits of our conceptual definitions,at least ...too bad we probably won't get past them

No, of-course not. We can never really now what being is in its infinite sense. Also look at my previous post:
"You (DEXX) are the closest to the meaning of universal being. It is true that plants, or any other entities for that matter only exist for us as self-conscious beings. And I too accept that there is no real, proper definition for being, it is indeed something impossible to define as it is the most absolute sphere of awareness we are delving into when we talk about 'being as such'. We can also say that nothingness does not exist - there's only being...we cannot talk about nothingness when we have 'being' and only know being ourselves. Nothingness canot be 'touched' from the condition of being."

Being is truely unfathomable.

Well, I can only say that the mind is a curse in being both usefull and useless at the same time...

Thinking......All things being??...All things share one thing, some kind of energy. Are you asking for what purpose??

I'm not refering to purpose - being is without absolute purpose - it merly is....

What is the energy you're speaking of? Everyone always speaks of this 'energy' - what energy? Define that.

The energy that's been measured coming from all living things. Science has taken pictures of it, and are now studing it. It's also been detected coming from, stars, etc.. Like an electricity kind of thing.

it IS electricity.
you are able to move due to electrical impulses sent throughout your body. there are tiny bitsy parts in your cells called mitocondries...whic release energy in every living thing. (there's actually a theory in birth of life based on them)
but if you are reffering to energy as in cosmic energy...the one that binds us all into balance.....there are theories...but it's got nothing to do with science i'm affraid, debbiejo

The electricity you are talking about. People sometimes call it auras, and where called nuts. I didn't believe my self, but since science has confirmed it, I believe it. So, now I keep an open mind on all subjects.

Is that the energy you're talking about?

i wasn't talking about any energy..i was trying to fill you in on what energy there is through your body. auras have nothing to do with it....that's paranormal mubo jumbo....and science in turn has nothing to do with it, let alone confirm it.

Science HAS comfirmed bio-electric fields..Yes they have. Some people just call them auras. I do know where you are coming from now
what youre talking about. I do know about that too.

that is NOT true....ofcourse science talks about bio-electric fields....i've mentiond mitocondries earlier. but auras imply that they are all radically different. and bio-electric fields are more or less the same, at individuals of same species....the difference being in health and/or development factors.

what you know of auras has NOTHING to do with science. those people that reffer to them as auras are not scientists

What I'm trying to say is that all living things have a bio-electric field.

well...if you want your try to be successful leave auras out of it.
yes...all living things have a bio-electric field. that's more or less proof that they're alive in the first place.
though we're way off topic here

I know, we did off the topic

Ultimate question: Why?

ANswer1: Why Not?
Answer2: Because.

There is only one being and that is thinking.

maybe you should consider doing it then

tHE MORE WE THINK THE LESS WE DO, THE MORE WE DO THE LESS WE THINK.

doing much of the latter lately huh?

So, you're quite actionless then?

i can do both simultaneously

I can walk and chew gum simultaneously

If you can't have some kind of thought or consciousness, then you cannot "Be"

I think therefore I am.....

there is no true definition of existance, existance and non existance are two extremes in our mind but they exist only as abstractions in our minds and nothing more, there is NO existance or non existance they dont.........exist.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
there is no true definition of existance, existance and non existance are two extremes in our mind but they exist only as abstractions in our minds and nothing more, there is NO existance or non existance they dont.........exist.

I've had days where I feel quite abstract, to the point of parallel.

HI Philosophicus I came across your question and thought I may be able to help by suggesting a book by Martin Heidegger called Being and Time. I studied a little of Heidegger in college for philosophy but I found his writings difficult to read. I think perhaps there might be something in there to give an understanding. Unfortunately it has been awhile since read the book and I know I wouldn't be able to give justice to his viewpoints. If you find it helpful please fill me in and perhaps you can help me understand it better as well. Good luck.

words can explain so much, but words are nowhere near enough to explain such concepts, youd have to have telepathy i guess, to convey ur point of view to the next person. i think i can define being, but not in words, its not possible.

'Being' in its most abstract and purest form really seems to be a concept not truly owned by any human being. I think that being is an action of self-escape (explained here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f75/t366823.html ), but as to what it is in itself, I don't know.

Im really sick of this question...imagine a baby was just born...then it instantly dies for some unknown and tragic reason, what was its purpose? To live and die 2 seconds later? It had no greater purpose, just to live 2 seconds and die. Same with us, we have no purpose, we just do what we do, we lived longer than the 2 second old baby and I suppose it could logically be called a "fuller" life but it is all relative and it matters not. I think people who believe our moral choices define us, give us purpose, and even determine what kind of "afterlife" we have are borderline retarded. Yes that was blunt but sometimes humans simply amaze me with the amount of stupidity they display.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Im really sick of this question...imagine a baby was just born...then it instantly dies for some unknown and tragic reason, what was its purpose? To live and die 2 seconds later? It had no greater purpose, just to live 2 seconds and die. Same with us, we have no purpose, we just do what we do, we lived longer than the 2 second old baby and I suppose it could logically be called a "fuller" life but it is all relative and it matters not. I think people who believe our moral choices define us, give us purpose, and even determine what kind of "afterlife" we have are borderline retarded. Yes that was blunt but sometimes humans simply amaze me with the amount of stupidity they display.

My friend, with all due respect, it is you who is displaying stupidity (in my opinion). The baby may not have had a purpose at first glance, but look at the effect on the mother! God may be punishing her for some misdeed, or he may even be punishing the doctor who delivered it because he may end up feeling guilty. Or, it could even lead to the mother realizing a fundamental fact of life, or it could spurr her to live life to the fullest. You never know. Please consider all possible outcomes before you start calling people borderline retarded.

But don't worry, I am amazed sometimes at people's stupidity as well.

*cough*yours*cough*

lol j/k

Originally posted by occultus
My friend, with all due respect, it is you who is displaying stupidity (in my opinion). The baby may not have had a purpose at first glance, but look at the effect on the mother! God may be punishing her for some misdeed, or he may even be punishing the doctor who delivered it because he may end up feeling guilty. Or, it could even lead to the mother realizing a fundamental fact of life, or it could spurr her to live life to the fullest. You never know. Please consider all possible outcomes before you start calling people borderline retarded.

What kind of a lame god would kill a baby to achieve some other goal? A punitive god!? If god created all things, then he's responsible for it, and if he knew what a person was going to be like before even having created it, then how can he punish it!?

No this is stupidity in its essence. God is greater than this ridiculous theory about him which you have.

Originally posted by occultus
My friend, with all due respect, it is you who is displaying stupidity (in my opinion). The baby may not have had a purpose at first glance, but look at the effect on the mother! God may be punishing her for some misdeed, or he may even be punishing the doctor who delivered it because he may end up feeling guilty. Or, it could even lead to the mother realizing a fundamental fact of life, or it could spurr her to live life to the fullest. You never know. Please consider all possible outcomes before you start calling people borderline retarded.

Honestly...


"My friend" If god killed a mothers baby to teach the mother a lesson, god is a bastard...Your probably a christian and Im sorry If I offended you with my attack on the intelligence of religous people, it really isnt my place to do so but still to think there is a land of eternal paradise waiting for you after you die is *IMHO* close minded.

Yes, that's what many Churches teach....we all must learn from our tragedies....so sad really.....because it doesn't really help anyone...Not really....cause some never can find out what the lesson was supposed to be....Maybe they start blaming themselves...maybe they feel they need to be more religious, maybe they need too become missionaries (I knew a family like that one)...Maybe the baby would of turned out to be a murderer....maybe, maybe, maybe..... .There was no purpose for the baby dieing...no lesson in it...no lesson for the mother...We are born into a solid form and we die just like other solid forms...But the essence/energy cannot be destroyed...That is the bigger picture...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, that's what many Churches teach....we all must learn from our tragedies....so sad really.....because it doesn't really help anyone...Not really....cause some never can find out what the lesson was supposed to be....Maybe they start blaming themselves...maybe they feel they need to be more religious, maybe they need too become missionaries (I knew a family like that one)...Maybe the baby would of turned out to be a murderer....maybe, maybe, maybe..... .There was no purpose for the baby dieing...no lesson in it...no lesson for the mother...We are born into a solid form and we die just like other solid forms...But the essence/energy cannot be destroyed...That is the bigger picture...

Well thats nice to know





But seriously you refer to buddhism yes? It definately makes more sense than christiananity... Well moving on although it is true energy is never destroyed I doubt your identity is retained within the energy itself... It could be possible though since we dont fully understand these things yet and it certainly is nice to wonder about.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Well thats nice to know





But seriously you refer to buddhism yes? It definately makes more sense than Christianity... Well moving on although it is true energy is never destroyed I doubt your identity is retained within the energy itself... It could be possible though since we dont fully understand these things yet and it certainly is nice to wonder about.

Well I do think buddhism makes more since than Christianity, but still don't agree with all of it.....I do feel that many things taught in the Metaphysics and quantum physics fields hold true....especially when you read about non-locality and the protons or is it neutrons...(can't remember right now,) I think that are in pairs can communicate from long distances...and if you alter one proton, the other will also adjust it's self....They're communicating some how.

photons, photons...that's what I was trying to remember..... ^^

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well I do think buddhism makes more since than Christianity, but still don't agree with all of it.....I do feel that many things taught in the Metaphysics and quantum physics fields hold true....especially when you read about non-locality and the protons or is it neutrons...(can't remember right now,) I think that are in pairs can communicate from long distances...and if you alter one proton, the other will also adjust it's self....They're communicating some how.

Yes I think I recall reading something about that, but anyway thats exactly what Im saying, we dont fully understand the properties of matter and energy yet...what buddism refers to as "essence" could have an actual scientific backing once further breakthroughs in the field are made.

you are still not answering Philo's question. Do you know what 'being' is ?

Hey Philo, the question that you have raised is challenging but at the same time it is interesting. I believe that you are a great thinker and will not be contented with answers we provide. Therefore, the question that you have raised is unanswerable.

Originally posted by tax
Hey Philo, the question that you have raised is challenging but at the same time it is interesting. I believe that you are a great thinker and will not be contented with answers we provide. Therefore, the question that you have raised is unanswerable.

Well, that's how I used to think about things in a spiral of unanswerable questioning. Philosophicus/Philo was me (no literally - I was banned so I go under the name Wonderer now), but now I have become a Buddhist, so I think more sensibly:
To contemplate ideas about the ultimate, absolute, essence of the universe, God, nature, etc., is senseless, fruitless and bad for one's mental as well as physical health, as it creates confusion, frustration, intellectual conflicts, and ultimately, no real answers. We must simply accept the fact that we, as mere human beings, being very small parts of the whole of the universe, cannot know the essence of the truth of existence.However, we must accept the fact that some things are hidden from our knowledge and then strive to be in synchronisation with the vibration and rhythm of this mystic law of the universe. One can only make peace with the great unknown of the universe if one accepts the mystery of the Universe's essence like a flower of which the seed producing mechanism is hidden and broken when probed.
Originally posted by Wonderer
The universe meant for us to simply vibrate in its rhythm, to simply accept its beautiful mystery, not to disrupt the natural flow with senseless intellectual deconstructions.
As you can see, Buddhism (Thanks again to Shakyamunison who introduced it to me, and who I see as my teacher on Buddhism) makes me think differently about things; I think and feel more sensible and peaceful now.

You found your happy place...

Originally posted by debbiejo
You found your happy place...

Yes!

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Yes I think I recall reading something about that, but anyway thats exactly what Im saying, we dont fully understand the properties of matter and energy yet...what buddism refers to as "essence" could have an actual scientific backing once further breakthroughs in the field are made.

Sure can, and so does other beliefs...

Please people, no fruitless scientific probing here! Whatever Science 'teaches' us, we can never know the real meaning of (because we are part of everything and not the 'creators' of it.

The universe meant for us to simply vibrate in its rhythm, to simply accept its beautiful mystery, not to disrupt the natural flow with senseless intellectual deconstructions.

is it sales on flowers here or???

Originally posted by Philosophicus
What is being? Can anyone ever define being/existence as such? What would be the difference between existence as such and non-existence as such - I am not refering to the existence of individual entities, but to existence/being proper, or all that is.

You would have no being if there was nothing there to have give it, nothing happens for no reason.

If there isn't a great, powerful invisible being there is NO BEING ATALL.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
You would have no being if there was nothing there to have give it, nothing happens for no reason.

If there isn't a great, powerful invisible being there is NO BEING ATALL.

How do you know this?

You are assuming that there was a beginning. What if the universe was and is like the biblical god? No beginning and no end.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you know this?

You are assuming that there was a beginning. What if the universe was and is like the biblical god? No beginning and no end.

Exactly. The universe does not have a beginning or an end, everything is eternal and infinite. All is one solid continuity...If you say that everything started somewhere, then what was before that? Obviously something must have been before everything started, and that regression makes things eternal and infinite.

Maybe the universe does not have a beginning or an end, but time does... time is just a part of the universe, and maybe the universe could still exist without a time.

Time only exists in the mind, so Time's limits or origination and end also exists only in the mind. That's it! If there were no humans in the universe, then time would not exist!

Originally posted by Philosophicus
Your description of awareness seems fine, but the question here is about being as such - You say that it's a physical state of existence, but I'm not pondering what the state of being is, rather existence as such, or being as such.

So, the question remains, what is existence/being as such?

I liked one physicist's response to this question, Why is there Something instead of Nothing? He said, Because Nothing is unstable.

But then one can still ask, Why is "nothing" unstable?

My guess is, this is a question beyond what the human intellect can know, that the Ultimate Reality is Mystery, and to even ask "Why is the Ultimate Reality Mystery" would seem to merely prove that point.

This is the kind of question that gets answered when you're on acid. Too bad you can't remember the answer when you return to reality.

Originally posted by Kosta
This is the kind of question that gets answered when you're on acid. Too bad you can't remember the answer when you return to reality.

So, by the logic above, the question of what reality is, gets answered when you are not in reality!?

Drugs will not get you inner happiness and bliss.

Correct...they will lead you down the wrong trail....drugs that is....messes up your preceptions.