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I'm a christian, but not by choice. My family isn't religious, but my grandparents are. I really don't like my religion, christians don't believe in ghosts or psychic abilities, they think it's the Devil. That really upsets me because I'm a very spiritual person.

I've given up on different denominations. All feel the other is wrong. So I read the scriptures and do studies and find things out for myself.

I guess many in the Christian community are superstitious. If something cannot be explained, then it of the devil. Ha I was even accused by my parents of be possessed, ha ha ha...Pointing their fingers at people possessed, possessed.

There are many things that can't be explained...I try to have an open mind about such things....You can't say that just because it's not explainable that it's evil...

Just my opinion.

I do....but probably not in the same way. Anyhow, the one thing that really upset me was when my youth group tried to feed me the bullshit that "all secular music is evil". I, quite literally, was like, "WTF." I don't even really listen to music and I was pissed .

it is always your choice, so if you wanna denounce your christian way then do it

If you are a non-practicing Christian, are you really a Christian at all?

you can believe without practise your religion, pray go to church/mosques/temples etc.....

the way I see it that one are a christian if one believe in jesus as described in the gospels, but that is just my take on it

Well being that I don't know what is true and that I don't understand being jewish upsets me.Also the fact that I am draged to a four hour temple service with my dad on saturdays is pretty upseting too.JM

Religons through that are againt abortion and gays are part of what they believe in.So it has to be mixed up in that sort of thing that is what Christens believe in anyway.JM

I hate the Elder Gods, that part of my religon I don't like, They betrayed their Parents, and they will pay for that... I ****IN HATE THEM!

I dont believe everything that my religion tells me to believe cos most of it was made up by some randomers who started the Church. I believe in the basics but mostly I belive what I want whilst trying to live my life to the best way possible

Religion doesn't upset me. People that corrupt religion or bash religion do. But to each his/her own. If you get your jollies outta picking on religion suit yourself. In the mean time I'll go do something constructive or something fun.

Ever read that scripture in the bible that talks about lying signs and wonders? That's what ghosts are - They are demons in disguise. They can disguise themselves as a family member, a friend... anything. But, there is no such things as ghosts. The bible says "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". You go directly to judgement.

The bible speaks out against sooth-sayers and psychics - they get their power from Satan. So, yes, it is of the devil.
Although, Satan has no power to see the future and he cannot be in more than one place, his demons can. He sends them out to opress and/or possess people and so psychics tap into those demons that are either opressing the person or possessing a person and that's how they can tell things from your past.... they use that to gain your trust - then they "predict" your future... Which they really aren't, they are speaking things over you. The only reason that things come to pass with psychics is because he/she has the person believing her - The bible says that the power of life and death is in the tongue. The bible says that you can believe a lie and be sent to Hell for it......................

Here's the whole truth...
When Adam messed up - God could have cleaned house and started over.
But, God loves us... He made us and provided us with free will - He wants us to choose him.
God is perfect, God can't stand sin and we are sinners but, He loves us despite our sin. Although God wants to be with us, the punishment for sin is eternal separation from Him (which is Hell). But, God doesn't want it to be that way... so, He made a way for us to be with Him. He sent His only Son to take the punishment for our sins... Jesus led a sinless life - He was perfect. He took a severe beating in which He was beaten with a "Cat of 9 tails" (it's 9 whips that are tied together that has glass and rocks in it - it took chunks of skin with each strike), His beard was ripped off of his face, they put a crown of thorns of his head, The bible says that He beaten so badly that He was hardly recognizable. People spat in His face on the way to the cross... Then He was laid on the cross - they put 5 inch nails in His hands and in His feet.... Then, in His immense pain... People mocked Him and said "Look, isn't this Jesus? The miracle worker? Let Him save Himself and prove that He's the Son of God".... and Jesus could have but, instead He said "Father, forgive them. They know not what they do". Jesus died on that cross for us - He took the punishment for our mistakes... and He didn't have to. But, He did it because He loves us and wants us to choose him. God made it so simple for us to be with Him - all that's required of us is to ask Jesus to come into our lives and to forgive us for the mistakes we've made.
Now you have a decision - will you accept God's mercy and love or are you going to turn it down?

Good on you WindDancer, I wholeheartedly agree with you....
*Ignores redheadgurl89*

If God is omniscient, He would have known that Adam was going to eat from the tree of knowledge before He ever created Adam.

Likewise, if God is truly perfect, He would not have created Adam flawed in such a way that he would make such a foolish decision as eating the forbidden fruit.

Moreover, had God been a better designer, there would be no need for Hell or for Jesus to be sacrificed for the sins of mankind.

Sure doesn't look as though you're ignoring me. Because if you were truly ignoring me you wouldn't have made reference to me.

But, I really don't care - you can "ignore" me all you want... I knew what I was setting myself up for when I posted it. I don't care what people think about me... I'm not some "Holier than thou" type - I'm far from perfect. I just said what I believe and I think that what I believe is not offensive.

That's where free will comes in. Would you rather be a puppet?
We all have choices to make..

I'm not perfect myself. far from it....but I do try.
And you?

Stop it, stop it! STOP IT! crybaby

I'm not mad at you, but when I read things like that, it really upsets me.

After my experiences, I believe in ghosts 100%. They're not demons, barely any of them are evil. A lot of them are nice, caring, protective people! they have emotions like us, a lot of ghosts in haunted houses protect the people that live there! That is not evil, it seems like a really nice thing to do actually.

And psychic powers, I don't believe it's the Devil trying to get through, I think that's rubbish. Everyone was born with psychic powers! It's our birth-right! If God makes us the way we are, why does he make us psychic if he hates it?

Jesus choose his path, I've choosen mine. I'm not going to Hell simply because I believe in something others think is *******evil*******. I don't believe in Hell, I believe in life after death, but not Hell.

So God sends us to Hell simply because of our sins? What a mean thing to do! I'd never do that to anybody!
If I were God, I'd let almost everyone into Heaven.

You may not know why I am saying this, but thank you

You're absoulutely right. God everything about us, and he's going to punish because He made us that way?

That's like telling someone to go out and buy milk or something, then when they do, you yell at them for doing it.

Adam chose to learn the knowledge of good and evil when he ate of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God created man with the choice to obey or disobey Him and when man chose to disobey he gained the knowledge of evil although he had only known the goodness of God. You have the right to believe what you want but you can also believe a lie and be damned for it. You can live your life not wanting to believe in or obey God but that doesn't mean that there is no God and that one day you will have to give an account to Him for your choices in life. Jesus (Yeshua) took your punishment on the cross so that you wouldn't have to suffer the consequences of your choice not to obey God (sin) - He did it to re-establish relationship with fallen mankind. There is one catch - you have to believe that He died in your place. If you don't accept what He did for you then why should He let you into His house (heaven) . You reject what He offers (salvation) because you wanna do your own thing and have it your way but that doesn't mean that there is no God - it means you choose to reject Him.

God will not send you to hell.......He will not make you to burn
forever.

I need to know mor about what you are doing?

I am actually very grateful to Jesus for taking my sins. Cheers brotha'!

But to me, it just seems like God's a bully who acts like the toughest kid in the playground. Instead of pushing me around and telling me how to live my life, why doesn't he say something encouraging like 'Wow, BlackC@t, that's really cool that you're a spiritual person, it's also cool that you have interests and stuff!' Instead of saying "That stuff's bad, now do what I say!"

Adam and Eve existed in a world without evil, and had no knowledge of the difference between right and wrong. God may have warned Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge but without knowing the difference between right and wrong, they could not know that disobeying God was wrong, let alone what wrong was. It certainly does not seem fair to punish them because God is a poor supervisor. That is equivocal to leaving a three year old alone in a room with a knife and telling him not to play with, and then getting upset when he cuts himself.

Not entirely correct. A ) Adam and Eve were definetly warned not to eat from that tree. B ) It is incorrect to say that they didnt know the difference between right and wrong. What they didnt know of was EVIL not right or wrong.

As to the punishment, it was given for the disobedience. God hates sin and man seperated himself from God by doing so. So God shows them the result of that. Despite this though, man was still given a chance at salvation if they so choose.

God is simply nature itself and has no concern or awareness of the existence of human beings.

In your estimation, ok. I disagree though.

There are a lot of things I hate, but you don't see me crying about it and damning people to Hell.

Hate is also an awfully strong word...

I am a Christian... but not a Catholic, not a Baptist, not even a Mormon, not a Jehovah's witness, not a Pentecostal, not a member of any Protestant denominations...

I am a Christian... and I don't have anything to be upset of regarding my religion and our church.

Originally posted by BlackC@
Are there things about your religion that upset you?

Nope.

I'm a Christian and I'd definitely say that there are things in my religion that bother me. However it's all brought on by people, rather than the religion itself. There's just a sense of overall intolerance from many Christians out there. Whether it's bashing people for their sexual orientation or trying to force feed people religion, it's just pathetic. Half of these churches are more concerned with their church then they are their religion. For instance, there's a church near where I live, these people spend hundreds of thousands on sound systems and tv screens, and their self promoting projects like their own movie about their church and their newest thing is a trading card game. They could actually be helping out the community if they put any amount of that money into it. So yeah, that's what grinds my gears.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Nope.

Not even the bigotry?

Originally posted by MRasheed
Nope.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Not even the bigotry?

lol There's no bigotry in Islam, except against disbelievers who attack believers.

There's bigotry among the people though, who hold onto stuff that God condemned because of their own personal, cultural, tribal issues, but that has nothing to do with Islam.

Originally posted by MRasheed
lol There's no bigotry in Islam, except against disbelievers who attack believers.

You don't think that condemning all those who disagree with you as infinitely evil counts as bigotry?

Originally posted by MRasheed
lol There's no bigotry in Islam, except against disbelievers who attack believers.

There's bigotry among the people though, who hold onto stuff that God condemned because of their own personal, cultural, tribal issues, but that has nothing to do with Islam.

Actually, there is bigotry. The religion excuse it, but it's still there.

Like how it takes two women to equal one man in legal matters, as Allah made the man excel the woman. Or how Muslim women must marry Muslim men.

I'm no adept at Islam, but there's more. Just because something is accepted, doesn't mean it's not bigotry.

That's false, actually. Bigotry means intolerance. "Unreasonable" does not define "bigotry"

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Like how it takes two women to equal one man in legal matters, as Allah made the man excel the woman.

That's not bigotry, that's a fundamental difference in how men and women record information and events giving men and advantage in matters such as legality/contract law and giving women the advantage in counseling and relationships.

In other words, it's the One who made us showing us insight in how the two sexes are different when it comes to certain things.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Or how Muslim women must marry Muslim men.

Again that is not bigotry. Pagan men during the time period would torture their women and make them give up their belief in the One God... especially significant during those times of war. I have many female family members and friends who take up vices like smoking weed, drinking, etc. for no other reason than because their men pushed them into it. This is not a bigoted passage but one built on a solid understanding of the male/female dynamic.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
That's false, actually. Bigotry means intolerance. "Unreasonable" does not define "bigotry"

'False' based on what? I didn't make it up, it's a dictionary definition. Do you write your own dictionary? It'll be hard to have a discussion like that.

Originally posted by MRasheed
That's not bigotry, that's a fundamental difference in how men and women record information and events giving men and advantage in matters such as legality/contract law and giving women the advantage in counseling and relationships.

In other words, it's the One who made us showing us insight in how the two sexes are different when it comes to certain things.

It's putting one gender below the other. No matter what Allah has said, that's not a balanced society. It's excused, as Allah made the man excel the woman, and that he made the man take care of the woman, but it's still there.

As for the latter example, albeit unfamiliar with it, the same apply. It's putting the woman above the man. They aren't equal, and not being equal makes not being of equal worth. Which is objective bigotry.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Again that is not bigotry. Pagan men during the time period would torture their women and make them give up their belief in the One God... especially significant during those times of war. I have many female family members and friends who take up vices like smoking weed, drinking, etc. for no other reason than because their men pushed them into it. This is not a bigoted passage but one built on a solid understanding of the male/female dynamic.

Men can marry any people of the book, but women only Muslim men. You can excuse it however you want, but that doesn't remove the bigotry.
Additionally, what does smoking weed, drinking and more have to do with what we're talking about?

Originally posted by MRasheed
'False' based on what? I didn't make it up, it's a dictionary definition. Do you write your own dictionary? It'll be hard to have a discussion like that.

I didn't say you made it up. I meant that whoever wrote that doesn't properly elaborate the meaning of bigotry. Bigotry doesn't mean unreasonable, it really doesn't.
I can hate religion because it's the prime cause of death across history. It's not unreasonable hate, because it's true and I value life highly. That doesn't mean it ain't bigotry.

I feel that the world would be better of without religion, and I feel a certain intolerance towards religious extremists. That's bigotry, even though it's rather reasonable (To me).

My point is, bigotry does not mean unreasonable. I don't know what dictionairy you have, but not Oxford, Merriam-Webster or American Heritage Dictionary define it as unreasonable.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
It's putting one gender below the other. No matter what Allah has said, that's not a balanced society. It's excused, as Allah made the man excel the woman, and that he made the man take care of the woman, but it's still there.

It's not upholding over the other, not at all. It's two fundamentally different beings... one weak in some areas but strong in others, and the other strong in some areas but weak in others... who alternate the uses of each of their strengths depending on the situation. That is by no means bigoted, but the normal functioning of healthy teamwork in action. I'm strong where you are weak, while you're strong where I'm weak, thus enabling us to get more done as the pair we were created to be than we would do alone.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
As for the latter example, albeit unfamiliar with it, the same apply. It's putting the woman above the man. They aren't equal, and not being equal makes not being of equal worth.

Just because they are different doesn't mean they aren't equal, Super Marie 64. The only thing God judges us by is the measure of righteousness versus sinfulness. All He did in this case was, as our Creator, instruct us in the best way to use our strengths in certain circumstances to minimize drama in our affairs.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Men can marry any people of the book, but women only Muslim men. You can excuse it however you want, but that doesn't remove the bigotry.

It's not bigotry, it's common sense in light of how people treat each other in those circumstances.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Additionally, what does smoking weed, drinking and more have to do with what we're talking about?

It was an analogy.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
I didn't say you made it up. I meant that whoever wrote that doesn't properly elaborate the meaning of bigotry. Bigotry doesn't mean unreasonable, it really doesn't. My point is, bigotry does not mean unreasonable. I don't know what dictionairy you have, but not Oxford, Merriam-Webster or American Heritage Dictionary define it as unreasonable.

Those must be your sacred texts. What does your alternate definition say?

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
I can hate religion because it's the prime cause of death across history.

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
I feel that the world would be better of without religion...

I feel the world would be better off without atheism, paganism and sins of the flesh.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
...and I feel a certain intolerance towards religious extremists.

Makes sense.

Originally posted by MRasheed
That is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard.

I'd answer the rest, but decided to focus on this.

Is it really? I'm not talking about some stupid one-sided "religion kills" argument. Hitler alone was the cause of death for millions of Jews. Then there's the Christian crusade, the Spanish people and native America, and general bigotry towards religious people, bigotry by religious people and the list goes on.

Granted, politics has killed a great deal of people as well, but many political powers are segregated by religion. I'm not saying religion kills, but death happens because of it.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
I'd answer the rest, but decided to focus on this.

Is it really? I'm not talking about some stupid one-sided "religion kills" argument. Hitler alone was the cause of death for millions of Jews. Then there's the Christian crusade, the Spanish people and native America, and general bigotry towards religious people, bigotry by religious people and the list goes on.

Granted, politics has killed a great deal of people as well, but many political powers are segregated by religion. I'm not saying religion kills, but death happens because of it.

Mao Tse-Tung and Stalin killed quite a few people: mostly not about religion, either.

So did the Muslim conquest of India, and the Christian crusade.

So many has died for one of the following reasons: Because of religion, for religion, in the crossfire of religion.
Granted, the same can be said about politics through history, but I'm no fan of that either.

No I like everything about being a Catholic

Not so much the religion it'self, but some of the people in it. A lot of "mormons" are religious snobs. If you don't believe what they do, or if you are not perfect in the faith, you are instantly on their bad list. And in the lds church, it is really common for 19 year old men to go on a mission, and if you don't then you are considered (by many, not the church it'self) to be a menus to society, and many girls just write you off as a possibility to date...really obnoxious. Those are the two things that bug me the most about us Mormons.

That's horrible.

What I used to hate was when a pastor would pray in front of a congregation and divulge private information about somebody who wasn't present and who had confided in the pastor.
I felt that was a form of gossip, which everyone did. I hated the gossip.

Also, if you read anything outside the faith, then people looked down on you.

i was a catholic as a child and from time to time i went to various churches from christian ones to mormon church.

my problem was that they talk trash about other religions without knowing a damn thing about it and would tell ppl not to read it b/c that is against god not even for curiosity and expanding knowledge.

basically wanting ignorance of the religion and demonizing it without allowing you to verify or learn what the other has to say.

Originally posted by King Castle
i was a catholic as a child and from time to time i went to various churches from christian ones to mormon church.

my problem was that they talk trash about other religions without knowing a damn thing about it and would tell ppl not to read it b/c that is against god not even for curiosity and expanding knowledge.

basically wanting ignorance of the religion and demonizing it without allowing you to verify or learn what the other has to say. Yeah, I do notice that too, I have learned that you need to be humble about things like this, don't act like you know something because you heard it from someone, I have been called out before on something, and it was not pretty. But most of that is not the specific religion, it is the person. That is something that really irritates me about a LOT of people, they use an experience they had with a specific person to ridicule a specific group, which is ridiculous.

Originally posted by menokokoro
Not so much the religion it'self, but some of the people in it. A lot of "mormons" are religious snobs. Such snobbery is not unique to Mormons.

Originally posted by Mindship
Such snobbery is not unique to Mormons. I don't doubt it, I live in Utah, in a part where the LDS church is the most prevalent even in Utah. So I don't have a lot of contact with other religions.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Is it really?

It is to me.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
I'm not talking about some stupid one-sided "religion kills" argument. Hitler alone was the cause of death for millions of Jews.

So? What did that have to do with the religion Hitler followed? Hitler did this on his own without any blessing from the tenants of Christianity.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Then there's the Christian crusade...

The motivation of the crusades was greed, not piety. That's why everyone is ashamed of it.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
...the Spanish people and native America...

Greed.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
...and general bigotry towards religious people, bigotry by religious people and the list goes on...

Humans are bigoted no matter what they believe. It's definitely not a religious problem, it's a human problem.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
Granted, politics has killed a great deal of people as well...

See?

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
...but many political powers are segregated by religion.

Segregation is evil? In what context? All contexts? Explain.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
I'm not saying religion kills, but death happens because of it.

Death happens when it is time for people to die.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
So did the Muslim conquest of India, and the Christian crusade.

If the Muslims killed anyone in India unprovoked, then they did not have the blessing of Islam to do so... it was done by the individuals who made that choice, not the religion. The same is true of the crusades... nothing in the Christian faith told them to do those things. It was purely a matter of greed.

Originally posted by Super Marie 64
So many has died for one of the following reasons: Because of religion, for religion, in the crossfire of religion.
Granted, the same can be said about politics through history, but I'm no fan of that either.


Some people have died in order to defend themselves and their Faith from attack... that's the closest you can get to an accurate "people have died because of religion." That's the only mass killing the Abrahamic religions actually condone, defense to protect yourself. All others are done by the egos of men, not the religions they claimed to follow.

Originally posted by menokokoro
Not so much the religion it'self, but some of the people in it. A lot of "mormons" are religious snobs. If you don't believe what they do, or if you are not perfect in the faith, you are instantly on their bad list. And in the lds church, it is really common for 19 year old men to go on a mission, and if you don't then you are considered (by many, not the church it'self) to be a menus to society, and many girls just write you off as a possibility to date...really obnoxious. Those are the two things that bug me the most about us Mormons.

Indeed: most of the Mormon missionaries I met at the MTC said that they were going on their mission because that had no hopes of marrying any gals back home if they weren't an RM. It's not supported by the church, but it's still a "social" aspect of our people that we have to deal with.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Indeed: most of the Mormon missionaries I met at the MTC said that they were going on their mission because that had no hopes of marrying any gals back home if they weren't an RM. It's not supported by the church, but it's still a "social" aspect of our people that we have to deal with. It is all good though, there are a lot of people who are actually understanding.

All of you are Mormons?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Mao Tse-Tung and Stalin killed quite a few people: mostly not about religion, either.
Well, sort of. In most communist circles communism itself becomes dogmatic and takes the functional role of a religion.

Originally posted by Mindship
Such snobbery is not unique to Mormons.

taken into the fact that a person needed to be able to read and most poor people didnt know how to. I would guess the book was written for the rich