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Wouldn't he like them for being sadistic and murderous? Wouldn't that prove to him that God is wrong in some way?

Haha, excellent!

I think the Christian perspective on this is that its God that punishes them to Hell, but i can see your logic perfectly. If Devil is evil then by proxy he would want to reward the people who are murderous and terrible for going against God's law.

However -

If Devil is personification of evil then he will want everyone to suffer, not just god - he fights for souls of whoever really.

If he is evil then he wants all and everyone to sufer under his...terrible...wrath...or whatever.

I think we got a thread like that already

LB hit the nail on the head.

Ok what? Satan doesnt punish people because he has a problem with evil. Its the only people God allow satan have. Satan hates all mankind and wants to bring everyone he can down with him. He did it with the angels and he damn sure wants to do it with man too. As far as I can imagine, he is aware of what God wants to do with mankind. Possibly even jealous.

Ok, thank you for your opinions.

Man is made in the image of God..Satan hates God and all His creations, especially man, being his image.

So if Man and all His creations are made in the image of God, and if God created "everything", logically Satan must hate himself...

All of his creation isnt in his image, just man is. As to whether or not Satan hates himself, who knows it would be ultimately irrelevant though.

I bet he does hate himself. He probably doesn't even realize it though.

Well....maybe..

So are you saying God is a coporal being or a spiritual one? If God is a "man", then all man, and only man, is created in His image. If He's spiritual, then all souls are a reflection of his being.

Hmm. Especially considering on the surface Angels have always been portrayed as appearing near human.

But also, Satan appears to often be in the business of luring souls away from God, and as fishermen seem to say, you catch fish using the right kind of bait. So God says "Live a Good life, and have paradise in Heaven" - while Satan would say "Live a bad life and be in terrible pain for all eternity"

One would imagine he would have a better time offering something worth being damned for all eternity for.

He is a metaphyiscal being, obviously not a man. You are incorrectly interpreting what it is to be made in his image and drawing your own conclusion based on that.

Some people said that bats were created by Satan...he tried to copy God's sparrows but created bats...thats why he cursed them to live only at nights and sleep in day.

^ Where did you hear that?? bats..I don't think satan can create.

God can't be a literal flesh and blood man. God is a presence, a spiritual unfathomable entity. By being in His image would have to be in spirit of some kind...maybe having thoughts, or maybe being in existence it's self.

Since in the beginning all God looked at man and said "it was very good", maybe, it was the presents of all things good that He instilled in man plus free will.. according to scripture.

was anyone really present to witness this god say that?

Yea...my neighbor..he said "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge." and "Science with out religion is lamb. Religion with out science is blind."

Watch the movie Dogma.

Yeah, real theologically accurate there. *Snorts.*

Actually, Satan has no real power, aside from influencing us. He cannot punish us after we die, nor can he directly attack us right now. He has to have God's permission to cause harm to us.

That is excellent!!!

He's not waiting for us in Hell to punish us, and he doesn't have a pitch fork either.

But if he did, he would probably try to sodomize us with it.

you speaking of experience here?

As in, have I experienced this?

as in was the question unclear?

Originally posted by finti
as in was the question unclear?
Yes, it was, actually. Seeing as how the phrase in English would be, "You speaking from experience?" rather than "of experience", I am unsure of what you are saying.

well it seems you really got it covered so...................

Originally posted by finti
well it seems you really got it covered so...................
*Scratches his head.*

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yea...my neighbor..he said "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge." and "Science with out religion is lamb. Religion with out science is blind."

i do believe imagination is more powerful than knowledge.

We wouldn't have any knowledge without first having an imagination first to wonder about something...So, imaginations is first and knowledge is second..

If there is a Hell, I certainly don't think we burn or we're tortured by demons or anything.

I think it's a cold, dark, depressing place. More or less a desert at night. In Hell, you wonder the place for all enternity, alone and miserable. Running over in your mind why you're all alone and why you're there.

It makes sense to have a place that gives you psychological fear, which is a lot more painful then physical fear.

Originally posted by dragonpisces272
i do believe imagination is more powerful than knowledge.

THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST BRILLIANT THING ANYBODY'S EVER SAID!

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wouldn't he like them for being sadistic and murderous? Wouldn't that prove to him that God is wrong in some way?

Where do you get this from? He does not punish evil humans, he does not punish when people kill themselves, if he destroys is that because he wanted it so, and as he is born in Chaos, what you expect from it?
But the answer on this lies in your own doomed soul...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Man is made in the image of God..Satan hates God and all His creations, especially man, being his image. You got it.

And when we say Man is in God's image, we mean that man is created based on God's Avatar (as in online picture)

Originally posted by frodo34x

And when we say Man is in God's image, we mean that man is created based on God's Avatar (as in online picture)

Lol!

You are absolutely right! He has to have permission from Our Lord to do everything! And he does know the last page of The Bible! He is probably just so full of himself, he beleives he has a chance to change it! He is pretty stupid! After all, it was his vanity that caused him and his hst of Angels to be kicked out of Heaven to begin with. As for Angels resembling man, yhey probably do spiritually, but according to The bible, they have something extra we do not! I do nt know what, but will research further! Have a nice, SUNNY day!

Because he likes to see people in pain and suffering.JM

Originally posted by vicki horvath
You are absolutely right! He has to have permission from Our Lord to do everything! And he does know the last page of The Bible! He is probably just so full of himself, he beleives he has a chance to change it! He is pretty stupid! After all, it was his vanity that caused him and his hst of Angels to be kicked out of Heaven to begin with. As for Angels resembling man, yhey probably do spiritually, but according to The bible, they have something extra we do not! I do nt know what, but will research further! Have a nice, SUNNY day!
Um...Philosophicus?

^ Are getting paranoid??

wings????????? ...........band on the run, band on the run

Originally posted by BlackC@t
If there is a Hell, I certainly don't think we burn or we're tortured by demons or anything.

I think it's a cold, dark, depressing place. More or less a desert at night. In Hell, you wonder the place for all enternity, alone and miserable. Running over in your mind why you're all alone and why you're there.

It makes sense to have a place that gives you psychological fear, which is a lot more painful then physical fear. I imagine it kinda like a dark prison cell, where you live in complete lonliness.

I would probably take endless torturing rather then place where you are alone too.

You could get used to pain in few hundred years...their "back of painful tricks" would finally be empty.

Where does Satan get his demons? (Do you believe that he does have those?)

I don't think I could get used to pain...cry

But to be alone would be the end of my sanity...

I don't think there is a hell anymore...I think that is a creation of man..As for demons...I think that is also a creation of man...Though I did grow up in a Pentecostal church where demons were talked about all the time...They were here, in your house, in your van, in you bad friend, they were just everywhere..It really made a person paranoid..It really freaks you out...Gee I remember my step-mom telling her pastor that I had a demon, and they put a prayer cloth under my bed and hung one in my closet....how disturbing..And I thought she had one...
fear

If you would be tortured for an millenia, you could get used to it.

Theological question: If a masochist kills someone and goes in Hell, wouldn't that be reward to him?

(If they torture people in hell)

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/27980

^ maybe after a millennium it would feel good...Makes you feel alive..But wouldn't the torturer get tired and have to take a break??

I don't think demons get tired.

Where have you read this??? I think it would become a bore after zillions of years to torture someone, don't you think,,then it would be hell for the demons.

Men do bad things, even orrible things.And God creates men like he is.
So how can God be good if he creates a being capable of doing acts like kill or beat down his similar?
I don't believe in God or even the Devil/Satana/Call him like you prefere, but I like to imagine they are just two capricious brothers that use their powers to annoy each other.

Lol, me too.

I said in another room that I'm not ignorant enough to believe that Satan will pin some medal on me because of my deliberate rejection of God and my own Luciferian beliefs(very mild than my youth I might add). Satan hates everybodyand everthing except his own rise to power. If I go to hell I'm sure Satan will stab me in the back but in this life I have now I can do what I wish. The only reason I admire Him is because of a common interest. He wants to be God. So do I. We both hate God. Being a human is a stale existence compared to what could God could have made us if he wasn't so greedy with his power. Anyone who says they don't care about those things I belive is speaking out of fear of wrath from God.
God does't do crap. He doesn't need too. Our own fear defeats ourselves. He's a silent nail biter. If God wants you to go to heaven and live in eternal bliss for eternity, hell with it. Sounds like free drinks to me. But if sends you to hell because you couldn't find the right religion, which today is seriously a needle in a haystack then fugg that guy. I rather spend eternity in hell than live with a picky hypochondriac who wouldn't even make his most devoted followers Gods like him. I'd rather burn than be God's fluffer boy.
God killed the party for us all. What an assclown. sadangel

It's strange how we have so much knowledge about the so called things of God but at the end of the day we are still clueless!
How can we believe anything when there is a plauseable argument for everything.
We are at the mercy of time. Time is our only security. After that....Who knows?

Originally posted by clickclick
Ok what? Satan doesnt punish people because he has a problem with evil. Its the only people God allow satan have. Satan hates all mankind and wants to bring everyone he can down with him. He did it with the angels and he damn sure wants to do it with man too. As far as I can imagine, he is aware of what God wants to do with mankind. Possibly even jealous. Satan may be an ass-hole. But he's our kind of ass-hole. Hail Satan! Drink Pepsi! pepsi

Originally posted by debbiejo
^ Where did you hear that?? bats..I don't think satan can create.

God can't be a literal flesh and blood man. God is a presence, a spiritual unfathomable entity. By being in His image would have to be in spirit of some kind...maybe having thoughts, or maybe being in existence it's self.

Since in the beginning all God looked at man and said "it was very good", maybe, it was the presents of all things good that He instilled in man plus free will.. according to scripture. I agree. Fright Night was just a movie man...just a movie...

" Your so cool Brewster! Ahahahah!"vampire

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wouldn't he like them for being sadistic and murderous? Wouldn't that prove to him that God is wrong in some way?

Umm......satan doesn't punish sinners...misery loves company. Unlike popular belief may say, Satan suffers in hell as well, it's a place of punishment. Now..If i'm correct, earth was given to satan..either way, it's a simple misunderstanding anyone could make, so no fault there.



Since god's power is eternal, if you're ment to suffer for eternity, you will, you'll never get used to it. In fact, it'll probably just get worse, and just when you think it couldn't be any more painful, it will get that way. There are other methods of torture other than physical pain, leading us to our next topic. If they like pain, than they will be denied it probably...or given a pain too large to handle proving too much of a "good" thing, can be a bad thing.

thats how I interpretered it as well during christianity classes(christianity is mandatory in Norwegian schools for all except those of a different religion/sets of beliefs that dont wanna take part in those classes) back in the school days

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wouldn't he like them for being sadistic and murderous? Wouldn't that prove to him that God is wrong in some way?

Satan hates mankind. He does not like people who do evil anymore than he likes people who do good. He only "tolerates" those he can control because he cannot love--he does not have that in him, he only hates. He hates all life except his own. He hates GOD, and everything HE has created. You want an example of his mindset, take for example murderers, thiefs, liars, rapists, racists, abusers. That is how Satan thinks--he is the author of that mindset--it started with him. He does not love anybody but himself, and he will do whatever is in his best interest, not anyone else's.

Satan knows his destiny and is full of hate and lies. He will do anything to screw up your life. He takes pleasure in destroying lives. He seeks to destroy and kill. He doesn't try to treat people nice who are like him because he has such a great hatred for God. He wants to take as many with him as he can. He's like the person who has gone mad and destroys everyone in his way.

Originally posted by elroar
Satan knows his destiny and is full of hate and lies. He will do anything to screw up your life. He takes pleasure in destroying lives. He seeks to destroy and kill. He doesn't try to treat people nice who are like him because he has such a great hatred for God. He wants to take as many with him as he can. He's like the person who has gone mad and destroys everyone in his way.

So true.

Is he in hell waiting for us now?...Or is he here tempting us?...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Is he in hell waiting for us now?...Or is he here tempting us?...

He's right here on earth, projecting his thoughts and attitude into our minds

Originally posted by KPrince
He's right here on earth, projecting his thoughts and attitude into our minds no no no

hysterical

Satan is not real.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Haha, excellent!

I think the Christian perspective on this is that its God that punishes them to Hell, but i can see your logic perfectly. If Devil is evil then by proxy he would want to reward the people who are murderous and terrible for going against God's law.

However -

If Devil is personification of evil then he will want everyone to suffer, not just god - he fights for souls of whoever really.

If he is evil then he wants all and everyone to sufer under his...terrible...wrath...or whatever.

GOD: a deity who demands to be worshipped, threatens us with eternal damnation, tells us how we should live our lives and has had multiple wars carried out in his name due to slight differences in belief structures

then his enemy

SATAN: doesn't tell us how to live, doesn't have smear campaigns going against his "opposition", doesn't try to subvert your free will in any way, shape, or form and has never had a war or mass genecide carried out in his name.... doesn't even stoop to his opponents tactics of fear mongering

think of them as politicians. if you knew one was constantly slinging mud at the other and demanding your worship/loyalty.... and that the other left you alone to make your own choice, didn't degrade the "opponent" in any way, had no propaganda and didn't threaten you with fear tactics

which would you say was the better person?

interesting.... no?

Originally posted by Scoobless
GOD: a deity who demands to be worshipped, threatens us with eternal damnation, tells us how we should live our lives and has had multiple wars carried out in his name due to slight differences in belief structures

then his enemy

SATAN: doesn't tell us how to live, doesn't have smear campaigns going against his "opposition", doesn't try to subvert your free will in any way, shape, or form and has never had a war or mass genecide carried out in his name.... doesn't even stoop to his opponents tactics of fear mongering

think of them as politicians. if you knew one was constantly slinging mud at the other and demanding your worship/loyalty.... and that the other left you alone to make your own choice, didn't degrade the "opponent" in any way, had no propaganda and didn't threaten you with fear tactics

which would you say was the better person?

interesting.... no?



God does not need.
God is not limited.
God is every thing, good and evil.
The Christian god is limited.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
God does not need.
God is not limited.
God is every thing, good and evil.
The Christian god is limited.

if he does not need then why does he ask us to do .... anything?

why even allow people to become aware of him in the first place?

Originally posted by Scoobless
if he does not need then why does he ask us to do .... anything?

why even allow people to become aware of him in the first place?

God is not a he. God does not talk. God does not do. However, because we are part of God, we need, we talk, we do.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
God is not a he. God does not talk. God does not do. However, because we are part of God, we need, we talk, we do.

i use "he" as it's quicker to type...

if he does not talk, need or do... where did the idea of "god" come from?... men (people)?

an idea created by someone, agreed on by others... and after a few thousand years... believed in by billions

Originally posted by Scoobless
i use "he" as it's quicker to type...

if he does not talk, need or do... where did the idea of "god" come from?... men (people)?

an idea created by someone, agreed on by others... and after a few thousand years... believed in by billions

God does not need man.

I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing you. I am sorry.

My belief in God is a choice I have made. I am a Buddhist, and Buddhism does not deal with the idea of God but I know many Buddhists how believe in God (not a Christian god).

It works like this. Life and non-life are the same. It is our perception that make the difference. You can say that all things are dead, or you can say that all things are alive. I believe that all things are alive, and this life is God. We are like the cells in your body. They are alive, but altogether make up you.

i'm just debating the concept of "God" as opposed to your actual belief therein ... or lack thereof

God is a concept created by people as a means to control through fear (in some religions anyway)

Originally posted by Scoobless
i'm just debating the concept of "God" as opposed to your actual belief therein ... or lack thereof

God is a concept created by people as a means to control through fear (in some religions anyway)

Yes, I agree. But that take all the fun out of it, doesn't it?

I just wanted to let you know that there is another way of looking at it.

This is because the men who wrote the bible didnt fully think these things out, so then you get all sorts of logical fallicies and paradoxes that they probably couldnt even comprehend at the time.

there are a vast multitude of ways of "looking at it"

i'm comfortable in my lack of religion of the organised variety for the moment

i prefer the freedom to alter my views when i feel the need to

I alter my views also as I learn or experience new information...As for the devil...there is no such thing...It's a scape goat...It's a way to not blame god for the destructiveness in man and the world, with out the devil people would have to blame god...and who would do that?...So enter the scape goat......Now if you believe in multiple gods, then that scape goat would have another name...People just cannot accept the fact that a god would allow evil...they say NO WAY, but infact if there is no place where god is not, then it would mean that god is everywhere and in everybody and in evil.

First of all the devil does'nt care about anybody all he likes to do is hurt people and get them away from god.He knows his time is limited and when person goes to hell there not with all their friends they are seperated so if you think satan could care about anyone he would rather kill someone because he does'nt care about anyone.

Originally posted by darktim1
First of all the devil does'nt care about anybody all he likes to do is hurt people and get them away from god.He knows his time is limited and when person goes to hell there not with all their friends they are seperated so if you think satan could care about anyone he would rather kill someone because he does'nt care about anyone.

How do you know this. Please show proof.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you know this. Please show proof.

you know better than to ask for proof in a religion forum.... just ask him why he believes that and what (if anything) he's basing it on

Originally posted by Scoobless
you know better than to ask for proof in a religion forum.... just ask him why he believes that and what (if anything) he's basing it on



I always go for the gusto.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wouldn't he like them for being sadistic and murderous? Wouldn't that prove to him that God is wrong in some way?

No, the devil hates everyone. Just because they are like him doesn't mean he has to like them.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
No, the devil hates everyone. Just because they are like him doesn't mean he has to like them.

Again, how do you know that? Please show proof.

Originally posted by Scoobless
you know better than to ask for proof in a religion forum.... just ask him why he believes that and what (if anything) he's basing it on



Is asking for proof in a religion forum like searching for positive ideas in a anti-religion forum? Because I don't think it is....

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Again, how do you know that? Please show proof.

That ancient book that dates back thousands of years. Forgotten already?

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
That ancient book that dates back thousands of years. Forgotten already?

I would like you to give me scripture. I bet you haven't read that book.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I would like you to give me scripture. I bet you haven't read that book.

Do you think i have a good enough memory to memorise a book so big? I am only 14 u know, lol, it'd take more than 14 years for someone with a memory like mine to memorise it.

It talks of him in genesis and Revelations, that is all I remember.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Do you think i have a good enough memory to memorise a book so big? I am only 14 u know, lol, it'd take more than 14 years for someone with a memory like mine to memorise it.

It talks of him in genesis and Revelations, that is all I remember.

Take your time and post the answer later. That means; take some time and look up Satan in the bible (do you have one of those books that tell you were every word in the bible is located? It's a good thing to have.), and see if you can tell what Satan is like. I think that a lot of Christians do not read the bible and therefore say things that they might be wrong about. The crime that Satan did was arrogance not hate.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Take your time and post the answer later. That means; take some time and look up Satan in the bible (do you have one of those books that tell you were every word in the bible is located? It's a good thing to have.), and see if you can tell what Satan is like. I think that a lot of Christians do not read the bible and therefore say things that they might be wrong about. The crime that Satan did was arrogance not hate.
Lucifer became jealous of gods power, now for an angel it is a serious offence on it's own, and it's only the beginning. Then he tries to trick Adam and Eve into eating from the tree just because of his jealousy and anger towards god.
Because Lucifer was being so bad after god had given him so much, he was cast down to the depths, he was cursed with anger and jealousy so ofcourse he'd end up being worse if he started being bad. Let's remember it's an evil fallen angel we're talking about here, not a human.
In the end he was cursed with hatred, greed and no forgiveness.

If you hated someone alot, wouldn't you hate something they owned also? If you hated someone so much you'd smash their car etc
That is why he hates humans, everyone, because god made us.

Satan just means being tempted....not a real person

Originally posted by debbiejo
Satan just means being tempted....not a real person

He is temptation, he tempts humans to disobey god so he can watch god get upset about it, it's a spiritual thing.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
He is temptation, he tempts humans to disobey god so he can watch god get upset about it, it's a spiritual thing.

god made Satan knowing that he would fall, therefore god made Satan to fall. Satan was doing gods work, it was part of god's plan. How is that not correct?

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
He is temptation, he tempts humans to disobey god so he can watch god get upset about it, it's a spiritual thing. If your god is that powersful, then why does he put up with it.....Kinda makes them on the same level don't you think?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
god made Satan knowing that he would fall, therefore god made Satan to fall. Satan was doing gods work, it was part of god's plan. How is that not correct?
Gods plan depends on when you're gonna die and then you're going to heaven but that's the bit you can alter.

God didn't make Satan fall, Satan made himself fall, if he hadn't been so jealous then he would have never been cast out. It's like right now you can do something to change the future.

Originally posted by debbiejo
If your god is that powersful, then why does he put up with it.....Kinda makes them on the same level don't you think?

So what's he going to do to the devil? He isn't going to wipe him from existance as that would be quite evil and he knows it, he is going to take down the devil fair and square.

but if you strike someone back when they are doing something wrong then that means you are on the same level as them

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Gods plan depends on when you're gonna die and then you're going to heaven but that's the bit you can alter.

God didn't make Satan fall, Satan made himself fall, if he hadn't been so jealous then he would have never been cast out. It's like right now you can do something to change the future.

Lets say, I know that you can't resist candy. Then I go around the house and put candy every were and tell you not to take the candy. Would that be fair? No. god knows everything, he knows this from the beginning to the end of time. god knew that Satan would fall before god created Satan, so, Satan's falling was part of god's plan.

Satan was never given free will, only humans were given free will.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you know this. Please show proof.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44

Originally posted by debbiejo
no no no

hysterical

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Revelation 12:7
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Revelation 12:8
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. II Corinthians 4:4
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:9

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do you know this. Please show proof.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Revelation 12:12

I wonder if everything i write down will be regarded as absolute fact 2000 years from now?

"Dogs are just cats in disguise!" Book of Scoob, chapter #1, page #1 line #1

Originally posted by Scoobless
I wonder if everything i write down will be regarded as absolute fact 2000 years from now?

"Dogs are just cats in disguise!" Book of Scoob, chapter #1, page #1 line #1

A philosophe can argue your point Scoobless, "Dogs have four legs and fur. Cats have four legs and fur. Therefore, Dogs and Cats are the same."

Originally posted by KPrince
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Revelation 12:12 Revelations is a "vision" book, all in symbols....visions are always in symbols...you can't take it literally...Besides you can't be of Satan, "your father" as you quoted if god is omnipresent...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Revelations is a "vision" book, all in symbols....visions are always in symbols...you can't take it literally...Besides you can't be of Satan, "your father" as you quoted if god is omnipresent...

We are separated from God because of our sins. Only through repentence can we reconcile with Him.
As for the scripture that quotes "your father" Jesus was referring to the Pharisees.

Doesn't the scripture say we are all born in sin.........our father would also be the devil...but the devil is fictional....no such person exists...

Besides why would a god so powerful punish billions upon billions all through history for Adam and Eve?....Adam and eve didn't even know what sin was...it would be like me punishing a 3 year old who didn't comprehend....and not only that 3 year old but all the billions of off spring that came from him.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Doesn't the scripture say we are all born in sin.........our father would also be the devil...but the devil is fictional....no such person exists...

Besides why would a god so powerful punish billions upon billions all through history for Adam and Eve?....Adam and eve didn't even know what sin was...it would be like me punishing a 3 year old who didn't comprehend....and not only that 3 year old but all the billions of off spring that came from him.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:16-17

Adam and Eve knew what they were doing, God warned them before hand.

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Genesis 3:1-4

Eve knew what she could and could not do, she listened to Satan instead of God.

Is this your Jesus?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

you must scroll down....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Is this your Jesus?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

you must scroll down....

No.

Originally posted by KPrince
No.

How about this...Is this your Jesus?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm

You must scroll down....

Please keep in mind how old these religions are compared to 33 AD...

Who copied who?

Originally posted by debbiejo
How about this...Is this your Jesus?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm

You must scroll down....

Please keep in mind how old these religions are compared to 33 AD...

Who copied who?

I noticed this from the chart on the site you gave me: Celebrated on DEC-25. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.

December 25 is believed to be Jesus' date of birth. It is not, however. No where in the Bible is Jesus' birth date mentioned.
But this statement by the person who made that site confirms my beliefs even more! I now understand how December 25 came about, thank you!

Sure thing

It's a good site...look into it...there is much info in there..

The Roman Catholic church had to bring together the Jews, gentiles, pagans under one umbrella and stole many myths that are thousands of years older than the NT and some OT writings....The Jews and pagans new the truths about what the Roman Catholic church was doing and then were persecuted by the church...all gnostic and other writings were then burned....The Roman Catholic church then took the position of gods voice on earth to man (Popes), and then the protestants followed...But the stories of Jesus are as old as dirt...myths taken from older religions....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Sure thing

It's a good site...look into it...there is much info in there..

The Roman Catholic church had to bring together the Jews, gentiles, pagans under one umbrella and stole many myths that are thousands of years older than the NT and some OT writings....The Jews and pagans new the truths about what the Roman Catholic church was doing and then were persecuted by the church...all gnostic and other writings were then burned....The Roman Catholic church then took the position of gods voice on earth to man (Popes), and then the protestants followed...But the stories of Jesus are as old as dirt...myths taken from older religions....

It is true what the Catholic church did. However, I'll have to find some information of records from ancient Rome which prove that Jesus existed. There are some...I'll just have to find them.

Originally posted by KPrince
It is true what the Catholic church did. However, I'll have to find some information of records from ancient Rome which prove that Jesus existed. There are some...I'll just have to find them.

I think there could of been a person named Jesus, and I have the Roman Catholic church records in a book.

I better hit the hay...yawn

Originally posted by debbiejo
I think there could of been a person named Jesus, and I have the Roman Catholic church records in a book.

I better hit the hay...yawn

Alright then, have a good night's sleep debbijo. I'll talk to you soon.

Well, it's morning now....and I do have to say you do know your scriptures well...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, it's morning now....and I do have to say you do know your scriptures well...


yes, his programming is almost complete

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, it's morning now....and I do have to say you do know your scriptures well...

Thanks!

Originally posted by Scoobless
yes, his programming is almost complete




I'll take that as a compliment

Getting back to the topic of Satan. Lucifer is Latin for 'Light Bearer' and a Roman deity associated with the planet Venus, which was known as Lucifer in Roman astrology before Venus, daughter of Jupiter, was promoted from Goddess of vegetation to Goddess of love and beauty with the planet renamed in her honor. He was called the 'Light Bearer' because Venus was the morning star, rose in the sky heralding the dawn. Lucifer is the son of Astraeus and father of Ceyx, Daedalion and the Hesperides. As a deity he came to personify the quest for light, variants of his name used for several Goddesses of 'light' including Artemis, Aurora and Hecate. He was by no means an evil force, history reveals Lucifer the antithesis of darkness and evil. The Hebrews never associated him with Satan, nor did the early Christians, the name had a positive connotation, was generally interpreted as meaning 'illumination' it was a popular name with the female equivalent Lucinda (Lucy) and synonymous with a person who searched for knowledge.

Lucifer was adopted by the ancient Hebrews and retooled Shahar God of the dawn, Jerusalem means 'House of Shalem' and has ties to the worship of Venus the 'Bringer of Light'. In the Christian context it was cleric Origenes Adamantius of the early Greek Church who first claimed Lucifer was the Devil, a concept championed by Augustine of Canterbury in 7th century England based on mistranslation. Lucifer was equated with Satan by St. Jerome in his Vulgate which claimed he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempted Adam & Eve to transgress. He erroneously translated 'Heylel', which means Venus in Hebrew, into Lucifer and an allusion to Satan when it wasn't. One of the reasons he equated Lucifer with Satan was politics, his hatred of an orthodox movement started in the 4th century by the Bishop of Cagliari, Lucifer Calaritanus, who founded a group called the Luciferians. By equating Lucifer with Satan he ensured that his heretical views on Christ's divinity and relationship with Jahova, etc, would be thought Satanic and not resuscitated.

http://www.castleofspirits.com/origindevils.html

Originally posted by Scoobless
yes, his programming is almost complete




Just as mine was...

It's always good to know you're source. ..and then broaden it..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Lucifer was adopted by the ancient Hebrews and retooled Shahar God of the dawn, Jerusalem means 'House of Shalem' and has ties to the worship of Venus the 'Bringer of Light'. In the Christian context it was cleric Origenes Adamantius of the early Greek Church who first claimed Lucifer was the Devil, a concept championed by Augustine of Canterbury in 7th century England based on mistranslation. Lucifer was equated with Satan by St. Jerome in his Vulgate which claimed he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempted Adam & Eve to transgress. He erroneously translated 'Heylel', which means Venus in Hebrew, into Lucifer and an allusion to Satan when it wasn't. One of the reasons he equated Lucifer with Satan was politics, his hatred of an orthodox movement started in the 4th century by the Bishop of Cagliari, Lucifer Calaritanus, who founded a group called the Luciferians. By equating Lucifer with Satan he ensured that his heretical views on Christ's divinity and relationship with Jahova, etc, would be thought Satanic and not resuscitated.

http://www.castleofspirits.com/origindevils.html

"There is no scriptural source designating Lucifer as Satan..." I got this from that site you showed me, interesting the person would say that.

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." Isaiah 14:12-15

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." Ezekiel 28:12-17

Then there is Revelation, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation12:7-9

Originally posted by KPrince
There is an older version of this Isaiah passage...I'll look it up and post it tomorrow....This Isaiah passage was copied from it...

Those scriptures by Isaiah are backed up by Ezekiel 28 and Revelations 12.

Here it is.................
Both Shaher and Shalem were born of the Great Mother Asherah in her world womb aspect as Helel, "the Pit"...Canaanite myth said Shaher converted the superior glory of the sun god and tried to upsurp his throne, but was defeated and cast down from heaven like a lighting bolt. Pagan scriptures of the 7th century BC included a dirge for the fallen Morning Star":

How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel's son Shaher? Though didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to heaven, above the circumpolar stars I will raise my throne, and I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the north; I will mount on the back of a cloud, I will be like unto Elyon the most high...

Centuries later, a Jewish scribe copied this Canaanite scripture into the Bible and pretended it was written by Isaiah.

Remember the Roman Catholic church edited much scripture for control of the masses....in other texts to make Jesus a deity...and Revelations is only symbolic.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Here it is.................
Both Shaher and Shalem were born of the Great Mother Asherah in her world womb aspect as Helel, "the Pit"...Canaanite myth said Shaher converted the superior glory of the sun god and tried to upsurp his throne, but was defeated and cast down from heaven like a lighting bolt. Pagan scriptures of the 7th century BC included a dirge for the fallen Morning Star":

How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel's son Shaher? Though didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to heaven, above the circumpolar stars I will raise my throne, and I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the north; I will mount on the back of a cloud, I will be like unto Elyon the most high...

Centuries later, a Jewish scribe copied this Canaanite scripture into the Bible and pretended it was written by Isaiah.

Remember the Roman Catholic church edited much scripture for control of the masses....in other texts to make Jesus a deity...and Revelations is only symbolic.

Don't the Catholics have their own Bible?

Yes, they have extra book in their Bibles....

I don't use the Catholic Bible, I'm not even Catholic.

...

Sorry, had to edit my posts, I posted in the wrong thread.

I have to go now, but if you want, we can continue this next time debbiejo, until then, bye

Originally posted by KPrince
I don't use the Catholic Bible, I'm not even Catholic.

Well see ya later, but I'm not posting from a Catholic Bible...I'm just using the KJV and also the gnostic texts that were not included in the cannon of scripture along with historical information.

Ill Answer that Question and it does make sence.

He doesnt Punish, although he does Kill for pleasure and the inflicting of Pain and depravity...

if you are interested to know the answer to everything that makes sence,

go and download the little book promised by Christ him self.

http : / / www . jahtruth . co. uk / twh . pdf

its TELLS YOU WHAT HAPPEND. just space 1 back and there you go.

Originally posted by debbiejo
That is excellent!!!

He's not waiting for us in Hell to punish us, and he doesn't have a pitch fork either. He'll stick you with his horns.

Originally posted by markie
He'll stick you with his horns. But they're pretend horns........Satan is not real....There are the same characters in all other mythologies....

Originally posted by debbiejo
But they're pretend horns.... I know But they are sharp and he has 7 heads so that means he has 7 sets of horns. Serioussly I believe in a devil just not thee kind of deviil that is normally thought of.

Originally posted by markie
I know But they are sharp and he has 7 heads so that means he has 7 sets of horns. Serioussly I believe in a devil just not thee kind of deviil that is normally thought of.

How is the devil you believe ? Does he have one less horn !?

Originally posted by markie
I know But they are sharp and he has 7 heads so that means he has 7 sets of horns. Serioussly I believe in a devil just not thee kind of deviil that is normally thought of. What do you believe the devil to be?

If Satan is bad, why does he punish people who are evil?
They're big on irony in Hell.
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040224

For satan to HAVE to punish anyone would be a punishment for himself...because he HAS to do it.....Why would he want to?...Wouldn't he get tired after a bizillion years or so?....If sure would be hell on him..

What we call good and evil are the same entity, only perceptions of what we create and placing labels on it....

Originally posted by debbiejo
What we call good and evil are the same entity, only perceptions of what we create and placing labels on it....

come again???

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
come again??? Everything is connected and has polarized properties....I don't believe there are single beings like god and satan....We are all connected to each other also...We attract what we dwell on.....If you dwell on negatives, then that is what is pulled towards you...same with positives....There is nobody pulling the "Strings" but us....We are part of the creative process....WE do the creating...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Everything is connected and has polarized properties....I don't believe there are single beings like god and satan....We are all connected to each other also...We attract what we dwell on.....If you dwell on negatives, then that is what is pulled towards you...same with positives....There is nobody pulling the "Strings" but us....We are part of the creative process....WE do the creating...

Okay, gotcha.

bangin

Sorry for the confusion...

My church believes that satan could not recive a body because of his evil, so he wants to lead us into unhappiness by sin, so we are miserable like him. hows that for an answer?

and i agree somewhat with debbiejo, we are unhappy mostly becuase we brought it on ourselves with sin. By doing good, we can be happy, even if we run into hardships, and by doing bad, we bring bad into our lives.

If you look in the book of Job in the Bible, you'll see that God afflicted Job by request of Satan. Therefore, I think that Satan more or less punishes those who are faithful and committed to God. Just look it up.

So people with the most sorrows are in for a gleeful surprise?....BTW Satan is only a myth as all mythologies have an evil character in them...

The person that made this thread is satan.

Will you quit calling people satan.....OMGOSH

Originally posted by debbiejo
Will you quit calling people satan.....OMGOSH

Well you never know