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cosmic power vs mystic power vs telepathic power vs physical powers
all gods in their own way, all very different. i think in this one supes might actually be the first to go. what do you all think?

I think that the order you have is the order of dominance -- except Superman might beat Prof. X (Silver Surfer beats Dr. Strange beats Professor X or Superman).

Silver Surfer's power cosmic is on an intergalactic scale. Dr. Strange is the best sorceror on earth, but there are other sorcerors elsewhere in the universe. The herald of Galactus is more unique and powerful, plus he has defeated powerful magical beings like Mephisto. He is the most powerful in the group of 4. He also has immensely powerful will and an alien mind, so he is not an easy target for psionics.

I think that Dr. Strange's skills are more varied than Prof. X's. He should be able to find a charm against psionics and use some interdimensional power to take out X or Superman.

I am not sure how Superman fares vs. psionics. If he is fairly suseptible maybe Prof. X can beat him, but I think that on sheer power he might be able to take it. This one really depends on the set up.

Professor X would be the first to go down.

Then the next person kissing dirt would either be Superman or Dr Strange (will explain later).

And the winner would be the Silver Surfer or Dr Strange.

Now, how come the good doctor is appearing twice?
Well, it depends on what course of action he takes. If he decides to stay in the battle and fight directly he will go down. He may be the master of magic and sorcery, but even he cannot evade a super-dense Kryptonian body hurtling toward him at 99.9% the speed of light!
He would also not be able to evade the power cosmic if he decided to go mano-a-mano with the Herald or the Alien.

However, if he transcends dimensions into either a past era or an alternate time-line he could be able to bring his biggest guns into play (and yes, I know that both the Surfer and the Kryptonian have both travelled time, and that are both able to penetrate dimensional barriers. But it would take precious time to do so, time that the doctor would put into good use).

Now, the good doctor will not be playing nurse while he is in this safe place. He will be opening the Greater Book of the Vishanti, and calling for aid from the other-dimensional beings (the Vishanti).
With their aid the sorcerer supreme just became able to literally erase both the Surfer and Mr Big S. He would be virtually unstoppable with the assistance of the Vishanti (Dr Fate could stop him, but even that is arguable since although Fate has access to greater power than the Vishanti through the use of the Helm of Nabu and the Lords of Order, who operate at a far higher frequency that the Vishanti could ever dream of, Fate is not as adept in magic as Strange is).

Anyways, if Strange decides to step into an alternate time-line (which he can ...easily) and use the relative safety to call upon the Vishanti, he can win.

IF he decides to use more mundane magicks against Superman (who although vulnerable to magics would still be a significant risk when moving at his top speed), or against the Silver Surfer (whose power cosmic would be a really HUGE problem) then the Dr would lose.

Conclusion: The winner is the Silver Surfer if Dr. Strange acts the fool, and the winner is Dr. Strange if he decides to show the alien, the herald and the dweeb exactly what he is capable of.

The one thing that is for certain is that the dweeb (i mean Xavier) and Superman(normal supes) would not win, and that Xavier would be the first to fall. Xavier would even probably be taken out by all three at the same time. No one likes having someone in their head. He would thus be hexed into multiple dimensions, a split second after his head was blown apart by the power cosmic, a picosecond after a super-dense hyper-velocity alien from krypton power-flew through his torso!

Silver Surfer

Originally posted by spetznaz
Professor X would be the first to go down.

Then the next person kissing dirt would either be Superman or Dr Strange (will explain later).

And the winner would be the Silver Surfer or Dr Strange.

Now, how come the good doctor is appearing twice?
Well, it depends on what course of action he takes. If he decides to stay in the battle and fight directly he will go down. He may be the master of magic and sorcery, but even he cannot evade a super-dense Kryptonian body hurtling toward him at 99.9% the speed of light!
He would also not be able to evade the power cosmic if he decided to go mano-a-mano with the Herald or the Alien.

However, if he transcends dimensions into either a past era or an alternate time-line he could be able to bring his biggest guns into play (and yes, I know that both the Surfer and the Kryptonian have both travelled time, and that are both able to penetrate dimensional barriers. But it would take precious time to do so, time that the doctor would put into good use).

Now, the good doctor will not be playing nurse while he is in this safe place. He will be opening the Greater Book of the Vishanti, and calling for aid from the other-dimensional beings (the Vishanti).
With their aid the sorcerer supreme just became able to literally erase both the Surfer and Mr Big S. He would be virtually unstoppable with the assistance of the Vishanti (Dr Fate could stop him, but even that is arguable since although Fate has access to greater power than the Vishanti through the use of the Helm of Nabu and the Lords of Order, who operate at a far higher frequency that the Vishanti could ever dream of, Fate is not as adept in magic as Strange is).

Anyways, if Strange decides to step into an alternate time-line (which he can ...easily) and use the relative safety to call upon the Vishanti, he can win.

IF he decides to use more mundane magicks against Superman (who although vulnerable to magics would still be a significant risk when moving at his top speed), or against the Silver Surfer (whose power cosmic would be a really HUGE problem) then the Dr would lose.

Conclusion: The winner is the Silver Surfer if Dr. Strange acts the fool, and the winner is Dr. Strange if he decides to show the alien, the herald and the dweeb exactly what he is capable of.

The one thing that is for certain is that the dweeb (i mean Xavier) and Superman(normal supes) would not win, and that Xavier would be the first to fall. Xavier would even probably be taken out by all three at the same time. No one likes having someone in their head. He would thus be hexed into multiple dimensions, a split second after his head was blown apart by the power cosmic, a picosecond after a super-dense hyper-velocity alien from krypton power-flew through his torso!

wow.

If only Silver Surfer wasn't SUCH a pacifist.

That'd be funny.

-AC

I think Professor X could take this as his telepathy has more range (in that he has more ways to use it) and a lot more skill than Strange. Surfer contrary to popular belief has weak telepathy which is really only used to communicate and learn languages. Professor X's mind can just about take them down.


Superman is a bit of a non factor because he is against all his weaknesses: Telepathy (he may be strongwilled but he can still be controlled by Xavier), magic (often thought of as in the same league as kryptonite in terms of Supeterminating, and a high octane energy manipulator who would be able to draw out the solar energy from Superman. Although Superman's speed is an asset, he has to accelerate over time to get to near light speed or really exert himself (if he immediately charges then he is vulnerable to everyone else)

Martian Manhunter said that if Superman doesn't want anyone in his mind, no one is in. So Xavier will never control Superman.

"Martian Manhunter said that if Superman doesn't want anyone in his mind, no one is in. So Xavier will never control Superman."" very funny if Xavier want to control him there is nothing sups can do.

Riiiiight.

Prof. X won't even get chance to mentally attack Superman anyway. Superman is faster than thought.

am not talking about speed. What is blocking X from controling superman .
Of course superman can fry his ass , but if he had a change he can crontrol him.
i was reply to the statement made by The Flash .

Flash why not?? LMAO people make me laugh

Silver surfer will own all by the way here

If Martian Manhunter(more powerful than Xavier will ever be) said that if no one is going inside Superman's mind, no one is! I'd find some examples, but I'm too lazy. Why don't you find some info on Superman first then get back to me.

lol i been reading superman comic for a while now

there is nowhere in his ability that say his resistent to mental control.

Ya he might fight back

and there is difference between MM , prof X.

show me where he block someone powerful mental

in one of his cartoon i saw his being brainwash

Xavier means nothing.
Martian Manhunter means nothing.
Superman means nothing.
Dr. Strange means nothing.

Silver, Surfer.

lol i hope everyone agree that sufer will beat all of them.

what's stopping X from getting into the mind of SS. he looks the most intimidating because supes and strange look like men. and that doesnt even matter because he'll know right away of his power. is ss invulnerable to psionic blasts?

The Silver Surfer has an extraordinary amount of control over the power cosmic. I have not seen him do so, but I think he could create a shield to protect himself from a psionic blast. I mean, I remember one time he could have cured the Hulk of gamma radiation if he wanted to. He has travelled in time. He can do amazing things.

At the very minimum he could just use raw power in the blink of an eye and get rid of Prof. X before significant psionic damage was done. Especially since I think he has a very resilient alien mind.

i guess what the x vs ss arguement comes down to is whether psionic blasts are physical or not. we know magic isnt physical, thats why strange is still a contender and he is more powerful than mephisto (no?). and superman's only advantage is his speed and strength which are both closley matched my ss (even though it's hard to say) and he is very vulnerable to strange.
so
are psionic blasts or any other kind of mental attack considered physical matter which ss has the power to alter/control?
what can x do to strange?
and can strange beat ss?

I think it woud be close, but would come down to strange v SS.

Superman would be defeated by stranges magic .
X is a cripple, so cant fight, and would be killed by supes before he could think to use his powers.

Strange eventually beats SS (ss has greater technical power, but his power is useless against the subtaties of stranges magic)

Well, it's not like Strange is the first magic user Superman's encountered. Supes can hit both Strange and Xavier before they even consider raising a finger. It comes down to Supes and Surfer, in my opinion.

If this is a first time meeting or a no prep fight. And I am sure it is. You have to give it to xavier. Maybe even strange. because xavier telepathy is alway on, and strange is paranoid. The other two aren't as vulnerable so they would never worry about an invalid and a strangely dressed human. Everyone who has read marvel and follows the x-men knows that if xavier really wants to mess with your mind he can and he will. He stopped an alien invasion force. He birthed on of the most powerful beings in marvel. Legion and Onslaught. because he has scruples doesn't make him weak. Yeah supes, silver and strange can resist the elaborate stuff, butt he doesn't have to be elaborate. He can tell strange that there is no fight and no danger go home and take a bath, and direct him to the nearest active volcano. He can tell the surfer he must save zenn-la and his people from his former master Galactus. Galactus would of course hand the surfer his head. And he can tell superman that he is holding green kryptonite in his hand. Gorilla Grodd did this same thing to superman when the JLA was offering him membership. Batman chewed him out for rushing in against a powerful telepath and putting everybody at risk. I suppose now he can probably resist telepathy. They are always giving him new powers. But I have seen him mind control to many times to believe this.

Oh and about that moving faster than thought. unless they have completely erased the laws of physics in dc. Everyone has to accelerate we all (unless we are certain particles that are constantly moving like photons and electrons) start out at 0 mps. Since the brain consist of nuerons that act as a bridge for electrical impulses (thus no need for acceleration), that moving faster than thought really ain't true.

NEVER ever try to bring logic into comic book super heroes again.

yeah what were thinking ebonyblade? but seriously in comics, and handful of heros are known to travel "faster than the speed of thought," but since telepaths are the best thinkers, im assuming they also have faster thought than most people. so i'm still undecided.
it appears everyone else is too. normally in a 4-way match up its narrowed down to 2 but no once can even do that, so. . .

did surfer and strange ever bumb heads? i know they worked together in the defenders but did they ever actually fight?

'did surfer and strange ever bumb heads? i know they worked together in the defenders but did they ever actually fight?"

i don't know if they fougth but it seem to me that he knows that surfer is a greater force than himself.

He said to surfer to keep a eye on thanos and stop him if he does something fishy. He said that his the only one with the power to do so.

that's show how he feels about surfer , and reconizes his power are even beyond his own.

well i think thats because surfer's power is on a cosmic level. he is definately one of the most cosmically powerful beings in the universe. i think he meant a sorcerer, even if it is sorcerer supreme, doesnt even know where to begin to take on a cosmic demi-god. the only thing is that there arent very many superpowerful mystical characters in comics. when you climb the levels of characters in terms of power, it gets more and more space-like and cosmic. strange is the most powerful mystical characters i can think of and he's no match for characters like thanos or darksied. by comparison ss has taken out more powerful dudes but it think that's because there arent any opponants on that level that strange would know how to deal with. if they created a wizard as powerful as thanos then strange would have a much better rep.

does telepathy give X any form of defence against physical force or is it just offensive to nontelepathst?

Wow, some people really think Xavier has a chance? I wish we could place bets on these threads.

technically he can just shut down everyone's mind at the first second

Surfer if he wants to kill them he will do so very fast .

His faster that Flash , Dr.Strange , and X will be knocked out before they knew what hit them.

Then superman is nothing to the silver surfer.

he's faser than the flash???

Surfer is way faster than Flash, at least over long distances.

i still think that as soon as X knows that these guys exist he can shut down their minds

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
i still think that as soon as X knows that these guys exist he can shut down their minds

Maybe, if when the battle starts Supes, Strange, and Surfer just stand there staring at eachother like idiots for a couple seconds. Xavier doesn't just put down powerhouses like these three as easy as he breathes. If Superman doesn't take him out, Surfer will. And I'm not sure but Surfer doesn't seem like the type to be affected by telepathy in the first place.

Xavier won't shut down Dr. Strange's mind. He has the Eye of Agamotto and the Ruby of Dominion. Both make him a super powerful telepath, and allow him to control almost anyone. Dr. Strange has a great chance of winning.

This is the probability hierarchy of a character winning:

1. Silver Surfer
2. Dr. Strange & Superman
3. Xavier

here is how i put it
1. Silver Surfer
2. Superman
3. Dr. Strange
4. Xavier

surfer can move to fast for Dr.S , and Xavier to react , and Superman well his no match for SS

i do agree surfer over supes in most cases but its unfair to say its no match. supes rivals him pretty well in terms of speed and strength. its just that, well, surfer can control matter and thats pretty intence. but in a completely physical fight its close with surfer on top.
and i did not know strange could control people. . . doesnt that mean he can control supes?

Dr. Strange was the only one to defeat Galactus therefore he can easily defeat the Silver Surfer. I don't think any of you who post these messages is aware of the power of this dimensions sorerer supreme. He could have easily also have defeated the beyonder by just opening up a portal to anther dimension or universe and imprison them there. As for cosmic power vs magic. I admit that the surfer looks cool in his surf board but there is no way he can defeat Dr. Strange. Cosmic powers? Dr. Strange would just conjure up a mystical shield. Strange does not even use a lot of black magic but when he does he can open up the gates of hell and let all demons loose. Do you forget he has the eye of agamotto and has the power of astral projection. Strange can even use power cosmic powers if he so so desires. He is a sorerere supreme. He can do anthing. He will probably turn the surfer into a white bunny.

http://www.silver-surfer.us/Top10list/Top10List.htm

this list isn't too bad

As long as it isn't Pre-Crisis Supes, he IS vulnerable to telepathy. So there goes Supes.

Someone mentioned Strange being wicked paranoid. Agreed...he'd have at least a decent enough telepathic block spell up (prep time or not) so that he could react...uh-oh to Xavier. But Surfer's the wild card. He could take Supes heads-up, it depends on what Strange does, and we don't know if Xavier could shut his mind down.

So in this scenario, pulling together what I've read on this thread and what I know myself, I'll say that the only one who couldn't win is Supes. The other three could all win, but of them I'd favor Surfer as 1, Strange 2nd, and X 3rd....not definitive, but since we don't know enough about them, and it depends on what Strange does, it's the best I can think of.

-DM

The battle depends on how it starts. For example, if a referee says, "Get ready. Fight!" then Proffessor X wins. He wins simply by reading their minds to see who plans on attacking him. He can disable or control multiple beings at once. He can make the others fight against themselves until there is one left. Then he can stop the last one's bodily functions or have him kill themselves. Now if Doctor Strange has the head start he wins. This is obvious so I won't go into details. Now if superman has the head start then he can only kill Dr. Strange and Professor X instantly (using speed of attack). But he may win or lose to Silver Surfer depending on their level of invulnerability to each other's powers. If Silver Surfer has the head start then again it is him and Superman.

strange's amulets and talismans protect him from telepathic assault or coersion

its not a matter of who gets a head start, its which can withstand the force of 3 other powers simultaneously attacking him while simultaneously attacking the other 3. i dont believe its a mattter of speed because strange's magic is constantly flowing and x's powers are at the speed of thought, and well supes and surfer, nuff said. i still cant decide.

First of all mm is not more powerful in tele anything than prof x.
Secondly, superman can be controlled or eliminated by prof x.
Third, sufer could take out superman quickly.
Fourth, dr. strange may not be the coolest looking, but he is hella powerful and he would eventually win if surfer doesn't take him out.
Superman can't just zoom into lightspeed it has to be built up. That is a law of physics. That is not possible. In all possibility it would take him between 2-5 seconds to build up to lightspeed. He would already have gotten attacked and rendered useless by then by teleblasts from prof x.
So how the hell is he faster than thought. Lightspeed is faster than thought, he has to build up to lightspeed, he can't just"poof, I'm at lightspeed I'm faster than thought,I'm superman." Please, get your knowledge up, man.

MM is more powerful telepath then Xavier.

More skilled, at least.

Originally posted by jplatinum
So how the hell is he faster than thought. Lightspeed is faster than thought, he has to build up to lightspeed, he can't just"poof, I'm at lightspeed I'm faster than thought,I'm superman." Please, get your knowledge up, man.
that issue has already been discussed. superman defies the laws of physics, obviously, and if it says in an official dc comic that he can fly the speed of thought when he wants than he can. read all the posts in the thread before posting.

^^^bump^^^

Originally posted by jplatinum
First of all mm is not more powerful in tele anything than prof x.
Secondly, superman can be controlled or eliminated by prof x.
Third, sufer could take out superman quickly.
Fourth, dr. strange may not be the coolest looking, but he is hella powerful and he would eventually win if surfer doesn't take him out.
Superman can't just zoom into lightspeed it has to be built up. That is a law of physics. That is not possible. In all possibility it would take him between 2-5 seconds to build up to lightspeed. He would already have gotten attacked and rendered useless by then by teleblasts from prof x.
So how the hell is he faster than thought. Lightspeed is faster than thought, he has to build up to lightspeed, he can't just"poof, I'm at lightspeed I'm faster than thought,I'm superman." Please, get your knowledge up, man.

Why are you assuming the distance of the characters? I am a math/physics major. There is no flaw to what I wrote. I simply assumed they were in close vicinty to each other to start. And besides, no one or thing can reach the speed of light (If you want to be true to science). This is impossible. Lastly, who said that Superman had to travel at the speed of light? Bullet speed is faster than the speed of thought. That is why we humans cannot see or react to it. Superman has plenty of times darted like the Flash across a room seemingly at an instant.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
its not a matter of who gets a head start, its which can withstand the force of 3 other powers simultaneously attacking him while simultaneously attacking the other 3. i dont believe its a mattter of speed because strange's magic is constantly flowing and x's powers are at the speed of thought, and well supes and surfer, nuff said. i still cant decide.

It is a matter of who gets a head start. This is common sense.
It also heavily depends on who decides to attack who first. Strange's magic is constantly flowing is nonsense. He has to think and move to cast whatever spell he wants. And in many cases he has to chant the words. This is also common sense. If I were superman i would go after xavier with a heat beam and then strange. This is because surfer is the only one who cannot instantly defeat me. If I were surfer I would follow the superman strategy. If I were xavier i would go after all at the same time. If I were strange i would erect a force field or teleport to another place (which ever is faster). In all cases. xavier would lose, since he cannot control all in time enough before someone shoots a beam at him. Strange would lose as well for similar reasons (he has to think to cast a spell). Thus it is between surfer and superman if they were smart enough to do the above strategies.

dr strange NO CONTEST, please people, stop this bullshit about surfer movin faster than thought, thats complete fanboy BULLSHIT

1) SS
2) SM
3) PX
4) DS

The first two are simply too fast and PX telepathy is surely faster than a spell.

If PX and DS would be there in their astral forms, it'd be a completely different scenario though!

1) PX; could not be physically harmed and is THE master of the astral plane
2) DS; same as with PX and has awful magic at his hands
3) SS; power cosmic...nuff said
4) SM; could do nothing to PX and DS and is just not as mighty as SS

Originally posted by wannabe
1) SS
2) SM
3) PX
4) DS

The first two are simply too fast and PX telepathy is surely faster than a spell.

If PX and DS would be there in their astral forms, it'd be a completely different scenario though!

1) PX; could not be physically harmed and is THE master of the astral plane
2) DS; same as with PX and has awful magic at his hands
3) SS; power cosmic...nuff said
4) SM; could do nothing to PX and DS and is just not as mighty as SS Superman can move astrally too. Torqasm Vo. In fact, on the astral, he may be even more powerful than physical Superman in comparison.
People seem to forget that Superman has vast mental and telekinetic powers.

this just shows how STUPID people can be,

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman can move astrally too. Torqasm Vo. In fact, on the astral, he may be even more powerful than physical Superman in comparison.
People seem to forget that Superman has vast mental and telekinetic powers. does he??? Then i'm not up to date with my knowledge about Supes. Sounds like a power and versatility overkill to me.
Nonetheless PX has taken on Dark Phoenix, Ego and Galactus and is certainly more used to the possibilities of the astral plane than Supes. Same counts for DS!

Originally posted by h1a8
It is a matter of who gets a head start. This is common sense.
It also heavily depends on who decides to attack who first. Strange's magic is constantly flowing is nonsense. He has to think and move to cast whatever spell he wants. And in many cases he has to chant the words. This is also common sense. If I were superman i would go after xavier with a heat beam and then strange. This is because surfer is the only one who cannot instantly defeat me. If I were surfer I would follow the superman strategy. If I were xavier i would go after all at the same time. If I were strange i would erect a force field or teleport to another place (which ever is faster). In all cases. xavier would lose, since he cannot control all in time enough before someone shoots a beam at him. Strange would lose as well for similar reasons (he has to think to cast a spell). Thus it is between surfer and superman if they were smart enough to do the above strategies.

thanks for bring this back btw

but what i meant by his magic constantly flowing is that he always has some sort of defence up. thats why when he get punched out by the hulk or telepathically attack by a telepath, unexpecantly, he doesnt die. i have never seen a herald blast him with the power cosmic so i dont know if they have the same affect or not. heat vision would not do much to strange. you're selling him a little short.

yes X will probably loose because of the speed factor, which is disapointing because he is so powerful.

Strange also can fly faster than light.

Strange CAN'T DIE, his body can, but his spirit can't, if superman were to kill Strange's body, Strange's Astral form would pop right out and be ready to keep fighting.

How many times do I have to bring that up? If his body dies, he still can fight at 98% normal power via spirit form.

Strange wins this. And Prof X doesn't own a damned thing.