X-team VS. JLA and the JSA

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Sentry
Can the combined might of the JLA and JSA take on Xmen/Xforce/Xfactor/Excalibur?

Here is the X roster:

Cyclops
Jean Grey
Emma Frost
Colossus
Rogue
Beast
Forge
Storm
Warpath
Northstar
Cable
Polaris
Magma
Iceman
Gambit
Wolverine
Captain Britain(with Excalibur and Amulet of right)
Meggan
Archangel
Banshee
Nightcrawler
Professor X
Havok
Bishop
Random
Shadowcat
Dazzler
Cannonball
Sunfire
Strong Guy
Shatterstar
Psylocke
Chamber
Jubilee
Longshot
Marrow

VS.

Current JLA & JSA(NOT PRE-CRISIS):

Superman
Flash
Batman
Wonder Woman
Firestorm
Aqua man
Green Lantern(Kyle)
Steel
Martian Manhunter
Shazam
Powergirl
Sentinel
Obsidian
Jakeem Thunder
Star Spangled Kid
Black Canary
Hawkman
Hawkgirl
Mr. Terrific
Faith(Telepath, not Dr. Fayt)

Scenario: JLA and The JSA have been commissioned by the government to hunt and capture down mutants. Batman learns that the Charles Xavier Institute is really a school for mutants. He does his research on the five founding members of the Xmen, Professor x, and few xmen members, Colossus, Kitty Pryde(Shadowcat), and Nightcrawler.
He gathers members of the JLA and the JSA as back up and storm the place, deep into the mansion via Superman digging an underground tunnel, they pop out in the hangar bypassing most of the institute's security. As soon as they hit the hangar, little do they know, they stormed the place during a mutant gathering, a reunion of sorts of Xavier's current and former students. There Professor X is giving a speech on how the war with humans can be avoided to his xmen and the other mutants Charles has helped along the way. The battle starts in the hanger.

Why are the rosters so lopsided, is because even though it's post crisis, the JLA and JSA are uber powerful. Base line DC heroes are a bit more powerful than their marvel counterparts which are steeped in a little more realism. Well other than that, let the battle begin.

DarkCrawler
Jakeem's Thunderbolt genie can do anything what you say to it, he just has to say it clearly.

Superman and Flash can take out the telepaths before they react.

And Firestorm can change the rest to pretty balloons.

DC strong guys probably beat the Marvel ones.

And almost all the members of DC are more experienced then Marvel ones.

(Faith is also telekinetic and it is Fate, not Fayt)

illadelph12
laughing

X-Men are screwed

unless...

Nightcrawler teleports Charles to Cerebro and he brain f*cks all of the human members of the JLA. I know Flash and Supes are fast, but if they are in the hangar, getting to Cerebro would take a little time considering they'd be fighting in a room full of telepaths, optic blasts, lightning, lava and plasma blasts, so they might not even know where they were going or that they had left. That could drop at least half of the JLA team and give the X Legion a shot, but they'd still have Supes, MM, and the Hawk people (Man/Girl) to deal with. They have enough psionic firepower to pull something out due to Longshot's probability/luck powers. If he can effect Manhunter and/or Supes into having a brain fart that makes them vulnerable (like Supes biomatrix short circuits and reduces him to Clark Kent or Manhunter phases himself into a wall by accident and incapacitates himself).

Luck is basically all the X-Men have, but considering they have a teammate that controls luck, it could be enough, but I highly doubt it.

I'd have to take the JLA, but the X-Men do have a homecourt advantage and a lot of psionic firepower, so it's not completely onesided. They could work something out.

illadelph12
And where's Magneto?

DarkCrawler
Please, give Flash a knife and he takes out all the X-Men before they can blink. (Literally) Getting to Cerebro would take like haf a second to him. On ther other hand, can't Northstar move potentially 99% of lightspeed?

stormfront13
if xavier gets to cerebro then I think the x-men might win. this fight would be good though considering that flash wouldn't know where to go it mihgt take him a few seconds to get to xavier but like ill said nightcrawler said nightcrawler can port him to creebro. flash prolly won't know how to get into creebro.

DarkCrawler
He could just hit the doors open with his infinite mass punch...

And go around the mansion in second.

And kill them before they have chance to teleport.

stormfront13
all nihgtcrawler has do is think about it and it happens- flash doesn't know where he is going so by the time he can even get to them they are gone. it would take flash a long time to get through the cerebro doors.

K3VIL
Even if he can, Flash can stole the speed from other object, stopping them.

ZephroCarnelian
Flash and Supes tip the balance - if Bats has told them who the powerful Psykers are, then they can be taken out in a nanosecond.

It'd be a fun rumble to watch, but I think the DC powerhouses can face down anything that the XMen throw at them - remember Gladiator? It took Phoenix to smack him down when the XMen first met him.

illadelph12
Well, when you consider that Supes drills through the ground into the hangar to begin this confrontation, that does give the X team a moment to react because they will see/hear the JLA coming. Sentry specified that Batman knew of Charles, the original X team (Beast, Cyclops, Angel, Iceman, Jean), Colossus, Kitty, and Nightcrawler. The rest of the mutants in the room and their abilities are a mystery to the JLA, and he didn't specify that the JLA knew the layout of the Mansion or the lower levels, only that it was a school for mutants. Once Supes bursts through the ground, Kurt and Charles would be gone (protecting Charles is always a top priority), and every mutant in the room is going to go postal. Who's to say Magma wouldn't just fill the hole Supes just created with lava before the slower JLA members could exit, the JLA don't even know she's there or what she could do. That would leave Flash, Supes, and MM against a bunch of pissed of mutants with a wide array of attacks and a teammate that controls probabilities. I'd take the JLA, but it's not 100%. Not even 60%.

DarkCrawler
Supes can drill through the ground before the sound that comes from it reaches the X-Men's ears.

Alpha Centauri
"all nihgtcrawler has do is think about it and it happens- flash doesn't know where he is going so by the time he can even get to them they are gone. it would take flash a long time to get through the cerebro doors."

No, I don't care if you like the X-Men as if they were family, they aren't going to win this fight. Stop polishing them.

-AC

DarkCrawler
Yeah. If nanosecond is a long time.

illadelph12
"Supes can drill through the ground before the sound that comes from it reaches the X-Men's ears."

That would be the case if Wolverine wasn't in the room. He has heightened bestial senses. He'd sense the tremors the way a dog or cat senses an earthquake or tsunami before it hits. Not to mention their scents.

Draco69
This isn't even a fight. Flash or Jakeem Thunder could take them all.

illadelph12
And where's Magneto?

kgkg
JLA will cream them .

Superman will take 50% of those funks by himself.

Cosmic Cube
No Phoenix? No Nathan Summers? No Racheal Summers? No Juggernaut? The X-Men are screwed.

The biggest factors on the X-Men team are:

Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Psylocke Nate Grey, and Professor X are some of the strongest telepaths on earth. All of these guys against Martian Manhunter is quite a mismatcth. No pun intended. Chamber's telekinetic blasts are strong enough to shatter steel, and he's a great telepath as well. He's one more telepathic threat.

Strong Guy can take any punches given by Superman, The Flash, Wonder Woman, or anyone else, and add it to his own strength. Though he apparently has his limits, attacking him physically would be a mistake.

Bishop can absorb any form of energy, (such as kinetic energy, heat energy, or psionic energy) without harm to himself. He can drain the kinetic energy from a punch, or even a bullet upon contact with his skin. He can only do this while conscious, and if he is aware of the attack. He has no known limits to the amount of energy he can absorb; he once absorbed a blast of Onslaught's energy that would have annihilated the X-Men.

Nightcrawler can teleport instantaneously. Nightcrawler has been seen to knock out a group of foes within a fraction of a second. Nightcrawler has also displayed the ability to teleport all or part of an object, (once for instance, he removed Deadpool's head.) He could kill several of the JLA members in less than a second, (if he so desired,) by removing their heads or other vital organs. Since his teleportaion is instantaneous, speed is not a problem for him. However, reflex speed is quite an obstacle, as he cannot react faster than The Flash, or Superman.

While in flight, Cannonball is virtually invincible; he's blasted through mountains unscathed. He also has the ability to redirect kinetic energy directed at him with equal amplitude.

Iceman is one of the most durable X-Men, he can transform his body inot pure ice, and reform his body from scattered water molecules.
Polaris's magnetic abilities rival Magneto's, she once reversed the magnetic polarity of the Earth while fighting Kraoka.

According to some, (though I cannot attest to this claim,) Colossus has exceeded his 100 ton weight limit, and is nearly indestuctable. Go figure, I though his max was 100 tons with Superhuman durability.

The Non-factors:

Beast
Wolverine
Forge (without preptime, what's his use?)
Jubilee
Cyclops
Storm
Northstar
Gambit
Wolverine
Archangel
Havok
Shadowcat
Dazzler
Sunfire
Strong Guy
Jubilee
Longshot
Marrow


The X-Team's best chance of beating the JLA is through telepathy. They'd have to attack before Thunder or Firestorm have a chance to attack. A few punches from Flash won't be enough to defeat Cable, one of the X-Men's most durable telepaths, and he could take out Flash telepathically. The best strategy for the X-Men to use would be telepathic attack. But really, though the JLA lack numbers, theY outgun the X-Team with powerhouses such as Firestorm, Obsidian, Green Lanturn, and Thunder. Without any cosmic powers such as the Phoenix Force at their disposal, this is a victory (though not an easy one) for the JLA.

demigawd
I think the X-men are a very psi-heavy team. That's where all their power comes from. Their biggest weakness is durability. Most of them are just humans with great offensive powers. But they can get tired, they can be knocked out with very little force. In other words, they have no room for error. The JLA, on the other hand, have MULTIPLE members who are invulnerable. They can take A LOT of punishment. So not only will the X-men have to outgun the JLA, they'll have to outdefend them, too.

While I can see reasonable scenarios where the X-men win, JLA takes 7/10.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He could just hit the doors open with his infinite mass punch...

And go around the mansion in second.

And kill them before they have chance to teleport.

Can someone describe the infinity mass punch? As in, how it works, how he uses it without being hurt, all that. Preferably with a link.

EDIT: Yeah, I think this fight is pretty lopsided in terms of power, but I'll probably put together something just to keep people debating.

illadelph12
The infinite mass punch is basically a light speed punch, but based on the theory that when matter moves at light speed it's mass increases infinitely until it 'explodes' (essentially, reverting, or accelerating , into energy).

Anyway, Flash wouldn't move that fast due to the fact many of his teammates need to breathe and moving at that speed would diplace all of the air in the area, as well as suck the oxygen from their lungs.

Khellendros
Originally posted by illadelph12
The infinite mass punch is basically a light speed punch, but based on the theory that when matter moves at light speed it's mass increases infinitely until it 'explodes' (essentially, reverting, or accelerating , into energy).

Anyway, Flash wouldn't move that fast due to the fact many of his teammates need to breathe and moving at that speed would diplace all of the air in the area, as well as suck the oxygen from their lungs.

Aaaaah okay. But why doesn't the explosion hurt him?

That's true. In an enclosed space, he is severely restricted or his own winds will injure his team mates.

illadelph12
His speed force aura protects him from it. Anyone close by is severely f*cked though. laughing

Khellendros
Okay, this is what I came up with.

Contrary to what the JL/SA believes, The X-teams knew they were coming when Meggan detected the surface thoughts of their attackers without intruding in their minds and aleritng the telepaths. What the justice teams happen upon is a very convincing danger room-style simulation with the telepaths on the other side of the mansion creating projecting perfect mental signatures for all the false versions of the X team and Cable, no longer hindered with the techno virus, reinforcing the walls with a telekinetic force field.

The battle between the hard light and robotic xmen and the justice teams goes about as expected while the X teams go down the the heavily shielded lower levels. Just as the justice teams realize they are trapped, the X jets newly installed ati-matter reactors erupt, destroying everything above ground and killing everyone but the Flash, Superman, Shazam, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter and Power girl. The second Flash stops running from the explosion, Cable ruptures every blood vessel in his body simultaneously. Next, MM is attacked by all of the present X-telepaths, using cerebro super charged by Storm's lightning to amplify their powers a hundred fold. They undo all the work he did suppressing his weakness to fire and convince him his skin is on fire. MM flies off in terror, losing control over his own body.

Before the explosion, Forge, linked with the other telepaths, discovered the knowledge of kryptonite and it's deadly effects on Superman from Batman. Beast reveals that he has been experimenting with a very similar form of radiation for its uses in cancer treatment. Forge and Beast sneak off to an underground lab while Cable fuses every entrance shut and Polaris lines every outer wall with a thin layer of the adamantium the badly injured Wolverine has willingly sacrificed.

With the justice teams' telepaths gone, the Professor and his fellow telepaths pit the remaining powerhouses against each other until Forge and Beast can finish working. Ten minutes later, Forge is teleported to the surface to find that Green Lantern was teamed up on by the other three and killed, but not before badly injuring Power girl. Already protected by a powerful forcefield generator, Forge blasts Superman with a gun that fires the equivalent radiation load of ten pounds of kryptonite with each shot. Superman dies rather quickly, still befuddled by the telepaths. Captain Marvel shakes off the mental control just in time to have his spine severed by two micro-thin flakes of adamantium saved by Polaris.

Rouge is teleported to the surface in time to steal the dying Power Girl's abilities and the rest of her life force, and the Xmen begin preparing to relocate to a new location, since this place is just too well known.

stormfront13
i like kell's idea a lot

Khellendros
Originally posted by stormfront13
i like kell's idea a lot

Me too big grin Though I'm coming up with other ones... this thread is really getting my creative juices flowing.

stormfront13
lol ur first one could definitley happen

illadelph12
Nice...

stormfront13
i think x-men can win- with all the telepaths then will definitley know they are coming

Sentry
That was good.

stormfront13
well i think no one could have said it better than kell

illadelph12
That's what I'm thinking too. With Supes drilling through the ground to bypass the Mansion's security, you'd have to take into account the fact that the X team have 7 telepaths, a man with super senses, and a woman that can sense things on the electro-magnetic spectrum. Polaris might be able to sense Hal's ring because of the energy sig it gives off. The JLA is better suited for physical confrontations. The Xmen are more strategy based given their limitations.

stormfront13
yeah ill is also right and what kell said about storm making cerebro stronger was brilliant

Kento
stick out tongue Hey Batman's snuck past White Martians before. He know a telepath is in there.. just Charles he knows about. He'd just have to mass produce the one thing he had during the second time the White Martians appear, and the telepaths would never know he came. *nods nods* However....that would not work well for the JLA since MM usually keeps them all in contact with telepathy.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Kento
stick out tongue Hey Batman's snuck past White Martians before. He know a telepath is in there.. just Charles he knows about. He'd just have to mass produce the one thing he had during the second time the White Martians appear, and the telepaths would never know he came. *nods nods* However....that would not work well for the JLA since MM usually keeps them all in contact with telepathy.
Yes, but you've got the most powerful telepath on Earth, working with several other very strong telepaths, all of whom are having their power multiplied. Even machines (I assume it was a device and not some magical thing) designed to block telepathy can be overpowered.

Kento
big grin Yea but it was basically meant to be a joke. But seriously I think the DCU win this.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Kento
big grin Yea but it was basically meant to be a joke. But seriously I think the DCU win this.
Why exactly? My scenario is pretty plausible I think, and it leaves room for a lot of different tactics as well.

Alpha Centauri
Why do we bring this idea on.

Stop scripting the fights, yeah?

How about we take what we know of each teams strengths and weaknesses and just go by that. There's no need for punch by punch commentary because that will get nowhere. It just comes down to what you believe.

-AC

Khellendros
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why do we bring this idea on.

Stop scripting the fights, yeah?


I do it because I like it. Like I said, it gets the creative juices flowing.

eleveninches
JLA/JSA are more than a match for all x-men EVER

kgkg
i agree

Mainstream
sadly...I agree too....but I love the xmen.

kgkg
X-men are buch of weak hero . I love the X-men too , but you can't deny facts . Superman , MM , flash can take X-men member out so fast it's not funny.

demigawd
that's why we give them power ups! So that the X-men can eventually be able to beat all these teams on boards everywhere!

ZephroCarnelian
The X-Men rock! But they were created for a different purpose, for a different audience. They're more gritty and realistic, focussed less on sheer power and more on character development.

Facts is facts, and the JLA are unbe-smegging-lievably powerful.... the X-Team simply can't win this, not without somem MAJOR coincedences. Such as Beast discovering K-Nite, lol!

Fantastically told story though, Khell! Top notch. smile

illadelph12
laughing

Not to be a dick, but couldn't Gambit go "New Sun" and blow the JLA up on sight?

Still gotta say the JLA logically though.

Mainstream
in theory the JLA should beat the Xmen...in theory unless like illadelph12 mention...remy go new son on them...and if god like Cable and dark Phoenix joined the fray..the JLA would really have to hustle to get a victory....if Remy, Nathan and Jean "powered up" I do believe this could "even the playing feild"..so to speak.

demigawd
Yeah, I'm sure we could take the core seven JLA and ASSEMBLE a team of X-men to take them out - IF we could choose versions of the X-men (New Son Gambit, Shaman Nate, God Cable, Magneto, Phoenix Jean, Phoenix Rachael, God Iceman, Onslaught Xavier, etc.).

In fact, I'd say that's a more interesting challenge...

Mainstream
the supreme Xmen could take them...it'd come down to one factor...Batman and his plan...I know batman lacks powers but often when strenght won't be enough to get a victory Superman and the JLA look to batman for a plan. Batman is the glue that holds the JLA together..but it have to be one hell of plan to take down the "supreme Xmen". Gambit, Nate, Cable, Magneto, P Jean, P Racheal, God Iceman, Onslaught Xavier, and what the hell throw in Mr. Sinster and Apoc...that should give the uncanny one more than enough mutant juice to beat the JLA and the JSA.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Khellendros
Aaaaah okay. But why doesn't the explosion hurt him?

That's true. In an enclosed space, he is severely restricted or his own winds will injure his team mates.

Flash can modify his Speed force aura so that it doesn't create any winds or sonic booms...

DarkCrawler
Oh, wait, here is another solution.

Superman lifts the X-Mansion and throws it into space. There.

Jamaican
"Oh, wait, here is another solution.

Superman lifts the X-Mansion and throws it into space. There."

lol. That's awesome...

"Yeah, I'm sure we could take the core seven JLA and ASSEMBLE a team of X-men to take them out - IF we could choose versions of the X-men (New Son Gambit, Shaman Nate, God Cable, Magneto, Phoenix Jean, Phoenix Rachael, God Iceman, Onslaught Xavier, etc.).
In fact, I'd say that's a more interesting challenge..."

From what I've heard about some of these 'powered up' xmen, wouldnt they destroy the JLA, or anyone for that matter.

The JLA wins this.

Hey, while we're adding/choosing different versions, why not get the JLA from the future (DC 1M) plus Sups Prime in there...

Sentry
Originally posted by Jamaican
"Oh, wait, here is another solution.

Superman lifts the X-Mansion and throws it into space. There."

lol. That's awesome...

"Yeah, I'm sure we could take the core seven JLA and ASSEMBLE a team of X-men to take them out - IF we could choose versions of the X-men (New Son Gambit, Shaman Nate, God Cable, Magneto, Phoenix Jean, Phoenix Rachael, God Iceman, Onslaught Xavier, etc.).
In fact, I'd say that's a more interesting challenge..."

From what I've heard about some of these 'powered up' xmen, wouldnt they destroy the JLA, or anyone for that matter.

The JLA wins this.

Hey, while we're adding/choosing different versions, why not get the JLA from the future (DC 1M) plus Sups Prime in there...

No one is adding characters to my thread. Keep an open mind. Their already quite a few obstacles in the way of the JLA. Since the X-team have bunch of psychics/telepath's they could very well see the JLA coming. This battle could be a lot closer than most of you think. So no supes 1 million, no prime, no Dark Phoenix, No New Sun(Theoretically Gambit is New Sun, and whose powers he could max out if he knew it was life and death), No Magneto, and no future JLA.

Strength wise, the JLA are true winners. while the X-team dominate the board in telepath's, telekinetics, and psionics.

illadelph12
Wait a minute, I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here. The scenario was already laid out.

Sentry already established that Supes drills through the ground into the hangar, he doesn't toss the mansion.

He already established that Batman only knows about Charles, Colossus, Kitty, Kurt, and the original X men (Ice, Cyc, Beast, Angel, Jean), and that Bat's is under the assumption that the institute is a school for mutants.

Batman doesn't know that the lower levels are the base of operations for the X-men, he thinks it's a boarding school for mutants.

Batman doesn't know Jean has/had access to the Phoenix force.

Batman doesn't know of X-Force, X Factor, or Excalibur.

Batman doesn't know of Gambit's alternate self coming and showing him his full potential as New Son.

Batman doesn't know of how powerful Cable has become, or that he, and all of the other X telepaths are even going to be there or what they are capable of.

Batman doesn't know Longshot can alter probabilities and have the JLA at a disadvantage from the start.

And that's all in current Marvel continuity, not future timelines.

The JLA are coming into the confrontation assuming to only have to deal with the original X men, Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, and Colossus. They'd be caught off guard.

DarkCrawler
We have also forgot that the X-Men doesn't know about the attack in the mansion, and therefore are unable to react when Superman drills through the ground with lightning speed.

Sentry
Originally posted by Sentry
Can the combined might of the JLA and JSA take on Xmen/Xforce/Xfactor/Excalibur?

Here is the X roster:

Cyclops
Jean Grey
Emma Frost
Colossus
Rogue
Beast
Forge
Storm
Warpath
Northstar
Cable
Polaris
Magma
Iceman
Gambit
Wolverine
Captain Britain(with Excalibur and Amulet of right)
Meggan
Archangel
Banshee
Nightcrawler
Professor X
Havok
Bishop
Random
Shadowcat
Dazzler
Cannonball
Sunfire
Strong Guy
Shatterstar
Psylocke
Chamber
Jubilee
Longshot
Marrow

VS.

Current JLA & JSA(NOT PRE-CRISIS):

Superman
Flash
Batman
Wonder Woman
Firestorm
Aqua man
Green Lantern(Kyle)
Steel
Martian Manhunter
Shazam
Powergirl
Sentinel
Obsidian
Jakeem Thunder
Star Spangled Kid
Black Canary
Hawkman
Hawkgirl
Mr. Terrific
Faith(Telepath, not Dr. Fayt)

Scenario: JLA and The JSA have been commissioned by the government to hunt and capture down mutants. Batman learns that the Charles Xavier Institute is really a school for mutants. He does his research on the five founding members of the Xmen, Professor x, and few xmen members, Colossus, Kitty Pryde(Shadowcat), and Nightcrawler.
He gathers members of the JLA and the JSA as back up and storm the place, deep into the mansion via Superman digging an underground tunnel, they pop out in the hangar bypassing most of the institute's security. As soon as they hit the hangar, little do they know, they stormed the place during a mutant gathering, a reunion of sorts of Xavier's current and former students. There Professor X is giving a speech on how the war with humans can be avoided to his xmen and the other mutants Charles has helped along the way. The battle starts in the hanger.

Why are the rosters so lopsided, is because even though it's post crisis, the JLA and JSA are uber powerful. Base line DC heroes are a bit more powerful than their marvel counterparts which are steeped in a little more realism. Well other than that, let the battle begin.



In my original post there, I never said that the X-team didn't know about the attack. They are psychic, and could have very well forseen their coming disaster. Then again you could be right, they didn't know they were coming. This fight is a lot a closer than people think, and it seems their are more people who agree with me on this.

Jamaican
"Hey, while we're adding/choosing different versions, why not get the JLA from the future (DC 1M) plus Sups Prime in there..."

That was sarcasm.

"Batman learns that the Charles Xavier Institute is really a school for mutants. He does his research on the five founding members of the Xmen, Professor x, and few xmen members, Colossus, Kitty Pryde(Shadowcat), and Nightcrawler."

I know this is YOUR thread and YOUR story, but don't you think it would be very unlike Bruce to not get the blueprints, find any available openings/exits, rooms. Also I think he would do his homework on more than just the 5 founding members (plus the others you mentioned). I think he would find out exactly who at least lives/practices there at the mansion? Especially those more dangerous and well known mutants such as Cable, Gambit etc.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Jamaican
I know this is YOUR thread and YOUR story, but don't you think it would be very unlike Bruce to not get the blueprints, find any available openings/exits, rooms. Also I think he would do his homework on more than just the 5 founding members (plus the others you mentioned). I think he would find out exactly who at least lives/practices there at the mansion? Especially those more dangerous and well known mutants such as Cable, Gambit etc.
Actually, if the world has gotten so hostile that the government is hiring other superhumans like the JLA to round up mutants, then Xavier would just hack into computers and minds and wipe all public knowledge and records of the mansion from existance. Even if he could find blueprints on the school, there's no way Xavier would have filed plans and blueprints for the underground levels with the city or something. He would have jsut ahd the crewes construct it and then wiped their minds.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Khellendros
Actually, if the world has gotten so hostile that the government is hiring other superhumans like the JLA to round up mutants, then Xavier would just hack into computers and minds and wipe all public knowledge and records of the mansion from existance. Even if he could find blueprints on the school, there's no way Xavier would have filed plans and blueprints for the underground levels with the city or something. He would have jsut ahd the crewes construct it and then wiped their minds.
Are you saying that he can hack in Batcave? What the f**k?

Khellendros
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Are you saying that he can hack in Batcave? What the f**k?
No, I;m saying he would have removed the information long before the government even hired the JLA.

DarkCrawler
What if Batman hacks in Cerebro, Phalanx did it before.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
What if Batman hacks in Cerebro, Phalanx did it before.

O_o Phalanx are walking super advanced machines. Batman is one guy with a big computer. The mansion technology is augmented with Shiar technology, no way can any human hacker get into it.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Khellendros
O_o Phalanx are walking super advanced machines. Batman is one guy with a big computer. The mansion technology is augmented with Shiar technology, no way can any human hacker get into it.

Ok...how about this, MM shields their thoughts with his own telepathy.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ok...how about this, MM shields their thoughts with his own telepathy.
Why would he? He only knows about the Professor, and knows he can repell him if he senses Xavier probing their minds. Meggan is the ace in the hole, because she can sense intentions and surface thoughts without being intrusive, so there's nothing for MM to sense.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Oh, wait, here is another solution.

Superman lifts the X-Mansion and throws it into space. There.
O_o Uhh, okay, but the first post said the JLA is supposed to be CAPTURING them, which means they have to at least try and take them alive. That also kills all of those arguments that involve Flash murdering everyone in a picosecond. Add this fact to my story, you get the picture that the JLA have all kinds of constraints, whereas the Xmen only have to survive and escape by any means necessary.

Originally posted by eleveninches
JLA/JSA are more than a match for all x-men EVER
Ahh ahh ahh, let us not be hasty with our words. You forget strategy. If strategy made no difference in a fight, Batman would have died long ago. The Xmen are no strangers to being suprise attacked, they survive by being able to react instantly to an enemy and winning.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Facts is facts, and the JLA are unbe-smegging-lievably powerful.... the X-Team simply can't win this, not without somem MAJOR coincedences. Such as Beast discovering K-Nite, lol!
>_>
I didn't say he disovered Kryptonite, just a radiation that was surprisingly similar!
<_<

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
We have also forgot that the X-Men doesn't know about the attack in the mansion, and therefore are unable to react when Superman drills through the ground with lightning speed.
Yeah... drilling a tunnel is actually a very delicate thing. He goes in too fast, he risking collapsing the hangar on their heads and the tunnel on his team mates. Not a good idea.

BTW, I love your sig. Is that actually taken out of an old comic or was it altered?

DarkCrawler
Oh, it's altered.

K3VIL
JSA and JLA are far more powerful than the X-Team.
Also they've got the Jakeem Thunderbolt, that is a genie.You ask him leave the mutants powerless and turn them into 5years old childs, he can do that.You say use your nuclear breath against them, he can do that.Give me Dr. Manhattan powers, he can do that.

Khellendros
Originally posted by K3VIL
JSA and JLA are far more powerful than the X-Team.
Also they've got the Jakeem Thunderbolt, that is a genie.You ask him leave the mutants powerless and turn them into 5years old childs, he can do that.You say use your nuclear breath against them, he can do that.Give me Dr. Manhattan powers, he can do that.
If he removes their powers, they aren't mutants anymore and there's no reason to arrest them. If they get turned into minors, the government will get shit about sending super powered goons to harass a building full of little kids. laughing Jakeem's best bet is to go in and fight normally.

doctorstrongbad
Can somebody give us a listing of the Jsa's powers. I know the X-teams and Jla's powers.

crazyspinz
wheres cable and nate? they would come to something like this, THEN KICK TOTAL ASS

yay xmen, boo DC

Khellendros
Originally posted by crazyspinz
wheres cable and nate? they would come to something like this, THEN KICK TOTAL ASS

yay xmen, boo DC
Cable was on the list, but Nate Grey is dead currently. I assume everyone on the list is at current situations with current powers.

demigawd
if it's current, then Cable is no longer uber. In fact, I think he just recovered from being vegetative.

Khellendros
Originally posted by demigawd
if it's current, then Cable is no longer uber. In fact, I think he just recovered from being vegetative.
Well then I dunno. Guess the threadmaker will have to answer that.

DarkCrawler
Supes drills through the ground with superspeed and GL makes an shield so he won't kill the other members. Supes comes in and disables half of the team. He beats all mentioned the list but notices that there is more members. Rest of the team come in. Jakeem Thunder orders Yzlzk (or something) to freeze all the mutants. JSA and JLA win.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Supes drills through the ground with superspeed and GL makes an shield so he won't kill the other members. Supes comes in and disables half of the team. He beats all mentioned the list but notices that there is more members. Rest of the team come in. Jakeem Thunder orders Yzlzk (or something) to freeze all the mutants. JSA and JLA win.
Yeah, except in that scenario GL didn't shield the hangar too, so Superman drops in there, killing just about all of the mutants. Superman wouldn't DO that, especially if he was asked just to go in and capture them. Besides, Meggan could sense them coming before Superman even began drilling.

paeng
In Marvel vs DC tm
Storm beats Wonder Woman
Wolverine beats Lobo without Adamantium
those 2 DC chars can Go toe to toe w/Superman and beat him I've seen it on comics and the Animated Series. Now Imagine what Wolverine will do w/his Adamantium back.

Besides X-teams have many telepath that can take them down in an instant. And Flash is not that hard to catch, in the JLA Animated series he got knock down by GL w/only one punch without using the ring.

All that I mention is true if you are reading and watching JLA comics and tv series you will know what I'm saying.

DarkCrawler
DC VS Marvel is not counted. It was fan-voted.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Khellendros
Yeah, except in that scenario GL didn't shield the hangar too

Ok, GL shields the hangar.

paeng
Even if GL is strong but he is no match for the X-teams telepath. And if Any of you who are thinking that Flash can kill anyone w/ a knife you're wrong because if he is really that good then he should be the leader of the Justice League. If that's what you're saying then Prof.X,Jean Grey and Cable and all the Telepath of the X-Teams just blow all the JLA and JSA heads off.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by paeng
Even if GL is strong but he is no match for the X-teams telepath.

If Storm can resist against telepaths with strong will...then GL sure can.



"he should be the leader of the Justice League" What kind of crap is that? roll eyes (sarcastic) Flash can kill all the members with normal human durablity before they can blink.

ragesRemorse
I think it comes down to Superman, Gl and the x-teams psychics. for everyhting that can be said about one team here, another can be said about the other. there is to much on the plate here to give a fair estimated answer.

paeng
Flash can't kill them in an instant because the X-Teams are very well trained mutants.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by paeng
Flash can't kill them in an instant because the X-Teams are very well trained mutants.

Tell me, how can that help against a man who can move faster then you can think?

paeng
Flash isn't fighting just normal robbers. Their super powered mutants. Okay then why did flash gets controlled by the Ape guy I don't know the name of this but he is a telepath as well.

ragesRemorse
Hey The x-men have quicksilver. Not as fast as the flash, but in the same area. It doesnt matter how fast flash can run if he cant see. I know flash is formidable chracter, but against all the abilities from all the listed mutants, there are just to many abilities that weaken his own.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Hey The x-men have quicksilver. Not as fast as the flash, but in the same area.

Not nearly as fast as Flash. He somewhere around 300 mph.



Because Gorilla Grodd gets to control him through schemes and suprise attacks. In all out fights, there is is hardly time for schemes. Gorilla Grodd is also more intelligent then any of the members of the X-Men.

juggernaut74
Where is Dr. Fate?

paeng
To DarkCrawler, The X-Teams telepath did'nt have to be too intelligent just to control Flash they will simply control him like Gorilla Grodd do. And besides there are many Intelligent X-men members like Prof.X, Beast, Forge. And remember Forge can make gadgets that can neutralize his enemies.

lawman
Martian Manhunter would read charles Xavier and realise he was no threat and tell all the Jla JSA, because they trust him they would stop and then go after whatever goverment wants innocent people locked up!

In a fight however i'd go for the JLA

What about Villains, i'd love to see
Doomsday Vs Juggernaut and the Hulk!

paeng
I'd go for the X-men. But I agree with you about Doomsday Vs Juggernaut and the Hulk.

paeng
And I suggest to you lawman that you play Mugen because it's fun they have Flash, Lobo, Superman, GL, Wonder Woman, X-men and tons of characters to play with.

stormfront13
i'd say x-men- like someone said the telapaths will know they are coming and MM is no match for all those telepaths- and darkcrawler storm can resist one telepath at a time not like five of the most powerful. and the x-men have telepaths so they will get info from batman by eading his mind- if xavier makes superman think he is surrounded by kryptonight then won't he like freak out or something leaving him to a few x-men- well anyway imo x-men win.

paeng
Yes I agree with you the X-men have many Telepath's that can take the JLA down Prof.X can control Superman and that leaves the JLA helpless, And Jean(Phoenix) and the other X-men can take care of the rest.

stormfront13
yeah i mean w/ the x-mens telepaths they can take control over the more powerful people on the JLA and JSA

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by paeng
To DarkCrawler, The X-Teams telepath did'nt have to be too intelligent just to control Flash they will simply control him like Gorilla Grodd do. And besides there are many Intelligent X-men members like Prof.X, Beast, Forge. And remember Forge can make gadgets that can neutralize his enemies.

You don't understand, Flash will kill them before that. He moves faster then thought. So does Superman. And Martian Manhunter is more skilled telepath then any of them.

stormfront13
mm can't take all f them- and flash won't do that the rules sctritly sat they they are not killing them just capturing them. and they attack will be known, the telapaths will sence them

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
mm can't take all f them- and flash won't do that the rules sctritly sat they they are not killing them just capturing them. and they attack will be known, the telapaths will sence them

OK, Flash will knock them out.

Goverment: "You need to attack the X-Men and capture them."

Flash: "Ok."

Thirty seconds later: "Im done. What's next?"

And MM knows about Xavier, so he will shield them all from telepathic intrusion.

stormfront13
mm is a match for xavier but is he a match for phoenix, emma, xavier, and cable?? they will know about it. and they wil be able to mknd wipe flash before he can do that - while he's on his way.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
mm is a match for xavier but is he a match for phoenix, emma, xavier, and cable?? they will know about it. and they wil be able to mknd wipe flash before he can do that - while he's on his way.

Flash can run around the world seven times in a second. They have little time to mindwipe him.

stormfront13
superman will be drilling a tunnel under the house. normal people will be able to feel it espicially magma and the telepaths will sence it. whats to stop them from mind-wiping everyone when they find out why they are there

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
superman will be drilling a tunnel under the house. normal people will be able to feel it espicially magma and the telepaths will sence it. whats to stop them from mind-wiping everyone when they find out why they are there

Bacause MM has shielded them from telepathy. Superman can drill through the ground in a second, while the Jakeem Thunder just tells his genie to freeze all the mutants so they can't move.

stormfront13
mm can't stand up to xavier, phoenix, emma, and cable- and they will know they are coming so it doesn't mater how long it takes to get through-= the telepaths will know why they are there and will be able to mind-wipe most of them before they start digging

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
mm can't stand up to xavier, phoenix, emma, and cable- and they will know they are coming so it doesn't mater how long it takes to get through-= the telepaths will know why they are there and will be able to mind-wipe most of them before they start digging

What if Supes starts digging in instant? And like I said, MM will shield them from telepathy. The X-Men dont have no reason to except intruders, so why would they go around looking with telepathy for them?

stormfront13
well frist of all meggan can sense people and surface thought even if they are shielded and i'm sure magme could bring magma up to make it harder to make a tunnel

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
well frist of all meggan can sense people and surface thought even if they are shielded and i'm sure magme could bring magma up to make it harder to make a tunnel

Meggan: "There is something...ARGH!"

*Meggan and half of X-Men are knocked out by Superman who drilled through the ground in half a second*

Magma doesn't have time to bring magma.

stormfront13
she can sense surface thought up to miles and miles away- shielded or not that doesn't apply to her she can still snece them and the xavier institute has its own weapons and defenses when someone it doesn't recognize approaches. the telepaths will know magma will do her stuff the telepaths can mnd-wipe the stronger ones and beat the rest.

eleveninches
I dont know why you're still debating it.
Regular (current teams) will have the DC team winning.
Having all members at max potential or having the full roster for each team would also mean that the DC team wins

BootlegBoys420
A Little Late Here... But... If Batman Did Research... Thats It... Fight Over... Hed Know About The Telepaths And The Whole JLA/JSA Would Be Outfitted To Stop The Mental Attacks... If You Read Any JLA Books With Batman In It You Know He Would... Without Their Telepaths... X Men Are Done...

stormfront13
sthe creater of this thread said he only knows about xavier and the original x-men

BootlegBoys420
OK... Still No Telepaths... Anti Telepathic Helmets... Whatever The Bat Can Think Of... And The Bat Can Think Of Alot... Same Conclusion...

Jason8200
Ok well incase you all have not read the DC/Marvel Crossover Access... Batman almost single handedly took down the entire X Men by himself... with Jean Grey there. I am pretty sure that Superman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Batman, and the Flash could take them all out by themselves.

Quicksilver can only go the Speed of Sound... noway can he hang with Flash especially sine Flash can use the Speed Force. So Flash is faster than anyone has.

Green Lanterns ring can keep people from using telepathy as long as his will is stronger than the telepath.

Then people were talking about bringing in Gambits ultra form or other mutants ultra form but if you did the same with the JLA and JSA... it would be game set for the X Men. Green Lantern to Parrallax (destroyed and recreated the Universe), Superman to Superman Prime (800 centuries in the Sun, last GL ring, Sword of Heaven), Flash has full controll over the Speed Force.... That would not even be fair. It would be a slaughter... but I would buy the comic books to see that.

BootlegBoys420
For Some Reason... Batman Is Not Given His Due On This Forum... Every Forum That Includes Batman Hands Him Off As Some Two Bit Vigilante... The Man Can Take Anyone If He Puts His Mind To It... Just Give Him 1 Day... 1 DAY!!!!!!!!!

stormfront13
but he isn't gettint time so the x-men have a big advantage bats knows about the original therefore he will have a plan for them but will be suprised when there is sp many more powerful people

paeng
To Jason8200 if you want to bring the DC vs Marvel, remember that Wolvie beat the hell out of Lobo w/out the adamantium and Storm beats Wonder Woman. And remember that Lobo once defeated Superman. And now that Wolvie's adamantium is back we don't know what he will do to the entire JLA. ANd the DC universe lose to the Marvel Universe.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by BootlegBoys420
For Some Reason... Batman Is Not Given His Due On This Forum... Every Forum That Includes Batman Hands Him Off As Some Two Bit Vigilante... The Man Can Take Anyone If He Puts His Mind To It... Just Give Him 1 Day... 1 DAY!!!!!!!!!

True batman is often overlooked, but his abilities and intelligence is matched when compared to certain members from x-men, x-force and factor.

The best bet for JL is to focus there strategy around Superman, and martian manhunter. MM is the only character from JL that can be asset in the psychic department. Although, i dont really see the telepaths being all that big of an advantage for the x-men. Jl will know this is their main weakness and work around that. Working around that is the incredibly hard part though.

For the mere fact of the X-team having so many more people on there side, is why i say they win. Even if you do have Superman, the odds are a little one sided in numbers.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
she can sense surface thought up to miles and miles away- shielded or not that doesn't apply to her she can still snece them and the xavier institute has its own weapons and defenses when someone it doesn't recognize approaches. the telepaths will know magma will do her stuff the telepaths can mnd-wipe the stronger ones and beat the rest.

Like I said. It will take Superman one second to go through the ground. They just simply don't have time to mindwipe anything. And Jakeem Thunders Genie can just freeze them. Or make all the members immune to telepathy.

paeng
Like I said before the X-men are not normal robbers, They are highly trained from hand to hand combat since their childhood and they have Super Powers. And Jean(Phoenix) can destroy them all combine that with Prof.X and Cable. And don't forget Longshot who have the power to bring the luck to the X-men side.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by paeng
Like I said before the X-men are not normal robbers, They are highly trained from hand to hand combat since their childhood and they have Super Powers. And Jean(Phoenix) can destroy them all combine that with Prof.X and Cable.

Xorn killed Jean, JLA or JSA have 10 members who are better then him. Superman or Flash can easily handle Prof X or Cable in a blink of a eye. You realize that Flash could eliminate our planet's entire population in 48 minutes?

stormfront13
the x-men will know they are coming therefor getting xavier to cerebro w/ cerebro he can beat mm and most likely get through gl shield.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
the x-men will know they are coming therefor getting xavier to cerebro w/ cerebro he can beat mm and most likely get through gl shield.

Jakeem.Thunder.Can.Freeze.All.The.Mutants.

Draco69
Ditto. Not to mention the Flash would take 75% of the team out all by his lonesome. The JLA/JSA is too much for the little mutants.

Sentry
Originally posted by Draco69
Ditto. Not to mention the Flash would take 75% of the team out all by his lonesome. The JLA/JSA is too much for the little mutants.

The Flash will probably trip on a rock or a crevice fall and knock himself out. He's taken falls like that before. laughing

Draco69
And Jean Grey will destroy the X-Men as Dark Phoenix after she discovers Emma Frost and Cyclops on a sex swing. wink

stormfront13
if jakeem could do that then why even bother coming to stop the x-men. i'm not saying that he can't do that but then why even have the entire jla there to back him up.besides the x-men will know of theior coming and be ready for anything. xavier will go to cerebro and once he sences them coming he will most likely stop him??

jrodslam
Les not forget that Flash moves faster than people think. If MM's gives him a mental block against all other psionics, hes in and out the mansion before anyone even knew he was there. Once there is a mental block on the more pwerfull JL members, theres nothing much the X-Men can do. IMO ofcourse.

Kento
Batman only knows about the original few, he doesn't know if they are all there, Sends Flash in to see if they are all there, searches the house, and grounds in seconds, he doesn't know about anything underground where the mutant are (I'm assuming) and sees nobody, tells Bats, they don't attack cause nobody is there.

doctorstrongbad
I would like to get some profiles on JSA. Does one them really have a genie?

Draco69
Yes. Jakeem Thunder. He can do anything with it as long as he tells it to.

doctorstrongbad
Originally posted by Draco69
Yes. Jakeem Thunder. He can do anything with it as long as he tells it to.

Okay so why hasn't this guy taken over the Dc universe by now? Is he a good guy or a bad guy? I know almost nothing about the JSA. Any thing you can tell me would be appreciated. smile

Superherovandal
he's a super-hero thats why hes a part of the JSA duh blink

doctorstrongbad
Originally posted by Superherovandal
he's a super-hero thats why hes a part of the JSA duh blink

Oh okay so the JSA are good guys. I guess that makes sense. Wow having a genie must really be awesome.

Draco69
The kid is a bit of a turd. So the genie does inappropiate things for him.

Superherovandal
Jakeem Williams was born in Keystone City's Union District, the son of young, unmarried parents. Still in school, his mother gave Jakeem to her older sister Lashawn to raise. Jakeem's parents promptly went their separate ways and moved out of Keystone. They haven't spoken to their son since.

Jakeem grew up without much support. He did poorly in school (often on purpose), and alienated his aunt and fellow students with his rude behavior and foul language. Everyone thought he needed an attitude adjustment. What Jakeem really needed was a friend.

When Jakeem asked Jay Garrick (a.k.a. the original Flash) for his autograph, Jay inadvertently handed him an item that would change the boy's life forever - a pink-ink pen. Jay had received the pen from an aging Johnny Thunder who, whether conscious of it or not (due to the onset of Alzheimer's), was actually passing on his legacy. Johnny Thunder had commanded a fifth-dimensional genie called the Thunderbolt since the early 1940s, as a member of the Justice Society of America. That Thunderbolt was now trapped in the ink of the pen, and he was looking for a new partner. Someone who truly needed him.

When the Earth was under attack by another fifth-dimensional sprite, Jakeem learned the secret of the pen, and helped save the world by merging the two sprites together into one Thunderbolt entity. Whenever Jakeem clicks the pen, the Thunderbolt is summoned. The sprite is capable of almost anything given the right command, but can be frustratingly precise in interpreting orders.

Now Jakeem's best friend, the Thunderbolt has taken to him quite quickly. Jakeem now serves as a part-time member of the JSA.

doctorstrongbad
Originally posted by Superherovandal
Jakeem Williams was born in Keystone City's Union District, the son of young, unmarried parents. Still in school, his mother gave Jakeem to her older sister Lashawn to raise. Jakeem's parents promptly went their separate ways and moved out of Keystone. They haven't spoken to their son since.

Jakeem grew up without much support. He did poorly in school (often on purpose), and alienated his aunt and fellow students with his rude behavior and foul language. Everyone thought he needed an attitude adjustment. What Jakeem really needed was a friend.

When Jakeem asked Jay Garrick (a.k.a. the original Flash) for his autograph, Jay inadvertently handed him an item that would change the boy's life forever - a pink-ink pen. Jay had received the pen from an aging Johnny Thunder who, whether conscious of it or not (due to the onset of Alzheimer's), was actually passing on his legacy. Johnny Thunder had commanded a fifth-dimensional genie called the Thunderbolt since the early 1940s, as a member of the Justice Society of America. That Thunderbolt was now trapped in the ink of the pen, and he was looking for a new partner. Someone who truly needed him.

When the Earth was under attack by another fifth-dimensional sprite, Jakeem learned the secret of the pen, and helped save the world by merging the two sprites together into one Thunderbolt entity. Whenever Jakeem clicks the pen, the Thunderbolt is summoned. The sprite is capable of almost anything given the right command, but can be frustratingly precise in interpreting orders.

Now Jakeem's best friend, the Thunderbolt has taken to him quite quickly. Jakeem now serves as a part-time member of the JSA.

Thanks for the background Superherovandal. Okay so the character is weak but the genie is strong. That makes more sense to me. smile

Cosmic Cube
lol. He said "turd."

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by stormfront13
i'm not saying that he can't do that but then why even have the entire jla there to back him up.besides the x-men will know of theior coming and be ready for anything. xavier will go to cerebro and once he sences them coming he will most likely stop him??

Batman probably knows about the Cerebro, because he knows about Xavier. So Superman drills through the ground (In a second) and destroys Cerebro and half of the members and because of his willpower (That is three times that of Storm) and MM mental blocks, he disables half of the X-Men in fifteen seconds. The JLA and JSA play card who can beat the rest.

Superman: "Uh, Batman there is more people then we expected."

Batman: "Oh yeah. Disable them too."

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