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Tyrant vs Superman Prime

Tyrant at birth, galaxy distroyer Tyrant

Damn, this is tough. 15,000 years of sunlight absorbtion verses a biomechanical cosmic being built to harness the biospheric energy of all the planets in the universe and enhanced by infusion of the Power Cosmic.

The catch here is that if Prime gets to use his weapons (Sword of Heaven, GL Ring) which aren't his base powers, then Tyrant should be allowed to use his weapons, which includes a World Ship and hundreds of thousands of attack droids powerful enough to take Gladiator, Morg and Ganymede down, as well.

Hmm...

Prime stands at the universal gate, guarding the DCU from outside threats. He is far beyond the tyrants power level and Far far far beyond the tyrants ability level

Not under his own power. He couldn't even stop Solaris, a living sun, without use of the GL Ring. How is he so vastly superior to a being that can harness the biospheric power of every planet in the universe and enhance it with the Power Cosmic?

"Prime stands at the universal gate, guarding the DCU from outside threats. He is far beyond the tyrants power level and Far far far beyond the tyrants ability level"

what illadelph12 said tyrant can at birth was able to distroy galaxies , and superman prime is just that a living sun.

i do not much know about his sword.

i give this to Tyrant.

Originally posted by eleveninches
Prime stands at the universal gate, guarding the DCU from outside threats. He is far beyond the tyrants power level and Far far far beyond the tyrants ability level

DCU has a gate? And Superman is defending it from outside threats? So Prime is now fighting beings from other universes? Or does DCU mean the entire DC Multiverse, if so then he's fighting threats outside of the DC Multiverse?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Not under his own power. He couldn't even stop Solaris, a living sun, without use of the GL Ring. How is he so vastly superior to a being that can harness the biospheric power of every planet in the universe and enhance it with the Power Cosmic?
who said he needed the ring, he used it yes but its not stated he could not have done it without the ring. He does have fifth dimensional powers( i think) he created lois and new krypton.

It was his descendents that created New Krypton, as well as went back in time and rescued the Kryptonians before the planet exploded, and did a whole bunch of other things in preparation for Prime's return from his sleep in the Sun in the 853rd century, not Prime himself.

The Future JLA also switched places with the Past JLA so that they could greet Kal El when he woke up. The GL ring was the only way to defeat Solaris.

The story goes that Solaris, Starman, and Vandal Savage in the future used a virus infected Hourman (the virus was Solaris's code) to go back in time and help in the creation of Solaris in the 20th century (Batman M and Superman M deduced that the only way to cure the virus was to create a sentient sun, creating Solaris in the 20th century, and there by making Solaris a tempral paradox because he actually aided in creating himself) *, then place a piece of kryptonite (the Kryptonite ring Batman kept) on Mars for Solaris to retrieve in the future when Prime awoke so he could use it to kill him.

Somehow, Starman came to his senses, destroyed the " Knight Fragment Ring" and defeats Solaris by sacrificing himelf, as well as letting Manhunter, Huntress, and Resurrection Man in on Solaris's plan. They then came up with their own plan to place the GL Ring on Mars in place of the kryptonite because Solaris of the future had never come in contact with one and would be vulnerable to it just as his past incarnation was. Fast forward a few hundred centuries, Vandal Savage retrieves the 'kryptonite' and Solaris launches the 'green rock' he finds on the surface of Mars (under the assumption it is kryptonite), into the sun where Prime (Kal El) is sleeping, not knowing it's actually the Ring of the Green Lantern.
Kyle Rayner, now in the 853rd Century as part of the Prime celebrations, uses his ring to retrieve the Lois DNA sample in Solaris's core, and then starts a supernova in Solaris afterwards with his ring. Solaris was surviving Kyle and Supeman M's attack (the 20th Century Supes was attacking with his force vision to contain the supernova within Solaris so it wouldn't destroy the solar system) until Supes Prime, recognizing the GL ring, emerges from the Sun, and uses it to help Kyle and Superman M slay Solaris (the 20th century JLA members were also in the Future as part of the celebration to greet Prime).

The dna sample Kyle retrieved was then brought to the 5th Dimension Superman named Lzyxm Ltpkz and he resurrected Lois, not Prime.

Kal El under his own power, and other members of the Superman Dynasty, were unable to destroy Solaris alone. It took multiple Supermen from different dimensions to reprogram Solaris back in the 300th century, and it still killed them all, and then to destroy Solaris, it took 2 GL rings and Superman M's force vision. If a sentient sun can do all that, what is the first spawn of Galactus, harnessing the biospheric power of every planet in the universe, and infused with the power cosmic, going to do.

He's gonna kick Prime's ass like Gog would.

Originally posted by Hegemon875
who said he needed the ring, he used it yes but its not stated he could not have done it without the ring. He does have fifth dimensional powers( i think) he created lois and new krypton.

Aside from what illadelph12, Prime doesn't even have 5th Dimensional powers. How can he have 5th Imp powers when it was his descendant that married a 5th Dimensional Imp thus gave way to a line of Supermen with 5th Imp blood?

HAHAHAHAHA....I love reading the DC fans reasoning...at this point its the most bias stuff since Wolverine 8888...Next thingu know superman prime will be able to beat the Beyonder...

AS usual DC people r saying that their idol should win becuae they have great quantitative power...against a Marvel character with very vast and dynamic power.

Superman Prime is merely quantitatively more powerful...with some weapons that make him qualitatively better too...However, Tyrant in his original state transcends basically any comic book character who manifests in a physical state, including prime. Tyrant would have dominion over prime simply because prime is "alive" in my opinion...Tyrant was originally more like a force of nature...Also, one should consider their intelligence...Tyrants intelligence also transcends any physical beingsIs prime more intelligent than Odin? someone let me know

Originally posted by kgkg
"Prime stands at the universal gate, guarding the DCU from outside threats. He is far beyond the tyrants power level and Far far far beyond the tyrants ability level"

what illadelph12 said tyrant can at birth was able to distroy galaxies , and superman prime is just that a living sun.




Being a living sun is just ONE of prime's lesser abilities. Just because he IS a living sun does not mean that he has no other abilities. For example, Tyrant has sight, but that doesn't mean that his abilities are limited to that.
Prime's powers and abilities go far beyond his role as the super-sun.
He has journied through more dimentions than even the 853rd centuary people can imagine. He has abilites from the very edge of the universe and reality. He can manipulate space and time at his whim. He probably could have defeated solaris earlier, but was busy elsewhere, and was only woken up by the last GL ring.
He stands at the universal gate that seperates the DCU from things outside of creation (he allowed atom 1million into the DCU when his universe was destroyed).

Originally posted by eleveninches

Being a living sun is just ONE of prime's lesser abilities. Just because he IS a living sun does not mean that he has no other abilities. For example, Tyrant has sight, but that doesn't mean that his abilities are limited to that.
Prime's powers and abilities go far beyond his role as the super-sun.
He has journied through more dimentions than even the 853rd centuary people can imagine. He has abilites from the very edge of the universe and reality. He can manipulate space and time at his whim. He probably could have defeated solaris earlier, but was busy elsewhere, and was only woken up by the last GL ring.
He stands at the universal gate that seperates the DCU from things outside of creation (he allowed atom 1million into the DCU when his universe was destroyed).

???Sounds like he's playing Dr. Strange's role. As for traveling around the universe, Tyrant, Galactus, Thanos, Celestials, Genis, Silver Surfer, Dr. Strange, etc. do all that.

Prime can't alter reality under his own power, his heavenly sword supposedly can. Like I said in my first post, Prime's base powers vs. Tyrant's base powers, Tyrant would murder Prime. If you arm Prime with a GL Ring and the Sword of Heaven, which are not Kal El's base powers, then you'd have to allow Tyrant his weapons: a World Ship and hundreds of thousands of attack droids individually powerful enough to take out Gladiator; to be fair.

If they were both unarmed, Tyrant would kill Prime.

If they get to use their weapons, Tyrant, his World Ship, and his army of super powered droids would kill Prime.

"Prime's powers and abilities go far beyond his role as the super-sun.
He has journied through more dimentions than even the 853rd centuary people can imagine. He has abilites from the very edge of the universe and reality. He can manipulate space and time at his whim. He probably could have defeated solaris earlier, but was busy elsewhere, and was only woken up by the last GL ring.
He stands at the universal gate that seperates the DCU from things outside of creation (he allowed atom 1million into the DCU when his universe was destroyed)."




Yo, I'm not snappin on you 11", but you sound like a damn Folger's Coffee commercial with that explanation.

"Prime's powers and abilities go far beyond his role as the super-sun.
He has journied through more dimentions than even the 853rd centuary people can imagine."

"He stands at the universal gate that seperates the DCU from things outside of creation "

So damn dramatic.

"The rich fragrant aroma of choice Columbian coffee beans is a ballet to the senses. The aromatic sensation is breathtaking."

lol

I still think prime takes it.

IM RIGHT. YOU'RE WRONG.


SO THERE !!!!

Originally posted by illadelph12
"Prime's powers and abilities go far beyond his role as the super-sun.
He has journied through more dimentions than even the 853rd centuary people can imagine. He has abilites from the very edge of the universe and reality. He can manipulate space and time at his whim. He probably could have defeated solaris earlier, but was busy elsewhere, and was only woken up by the last GL ring.
He stands at the universal gate that seperates the DCU from things outside of creation (he allowed atom 1million into the DCU when his universe was destroyed)."




Yo, I'm not snappin on you 11", but you sound like a damn Folger's Coffee commercial with that explanation.

"Prime's powers and abilities go far beyond his role as the super-sun.
He has journied through more dimentions than even the 853rd centuary people can imagine."

"He stands at the universal gate that seperates the DCU from things outside of creation "

So damn dramatic.

"The rich fragrant aroma of choice Columbian coffee beans is a ballet to the senses. The aromatic sensation is breathtaking."

LMAO!!! That's this board's problem...too many sarcastic people on here. I blame AC and VV Doom for being bad influences...the damn brit...

Nah, my minds been corrupted by years of watching Richard Pryor and Sanford & Son reruns.

yea that was good

anyway, back on subject...i dont think some people understand how elevated Tyrant is...someone compared living sun to Tyrant's being able to see...which is ironic, since Tyrant at his base probably can't "see" in the same respect as a being like us and prime...its like how Johnny Storm figured out why Galactus needed a herald with invisibilty powers to find the hidden planets...Galacted is so far transcended he can't use such rudimentary senses as "sight".

But yea, regardless of Prime's knowledge from other dimensions and time, i dont think he is as elevated a being as Tyrant...who was basically a force of nature at his conception.

Isn't Tyrant close to Galactus' level of power. Galactus defeated Tyrant initially but Tyrant spent centuries (eons?) collecting power. In the Tyrant comic they choose not to fight because it was too even. So my question is could Superman Prime beat Galactus (I know nothing of DC). If not he probably could not beat Tyrant.

Prime couldn't beat Galactus.

Silver Surfer would still defeat Prime. Even with 15,000 years of solar power absorption, he's still just a living battery, and he can still be shorted out like an electrical device by an EMP, or flat out drained. Any competent energy manipulator with hyper light speed capabilities could do it. I'd even say Binary could take Prime considering he still has the same weakness. He'd have to rely more on the GL ring and Sword of Heaven than his own base powers, and the GL Ring can be shorted out as well.

Prime could put a collar around galactus, and make him his b!tch.

No, probably not.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Prime couldn't beat Galactus.

Silver Surfer would still defeat Prime. Even with 15,000 years of solar power absorption, he's still just a living battery, and he can still be shorted out like an electrical device by an EMP, or flat out drained. Any competent energy manipulator with hyper light speed capabilities could do it. I'd even say Binary could take Prime considering he still has the same weakness. He'd have to rely more on the GL ring and Sword of Heaven than his own base powers, and the GL Ring can be shorted out as well.

I completely agree old chum

LOL

SS beating prime.

This thread is getting siilly

It's perfectly logical 11". Superman Prime (Kal El)'s base powers are absorbing solar/light/cosmic energy to feed his biomatrix. Sitting in the sun for 15,000 years doesn't change that fact. Suns have existed for millions of years and a character like Phoenix consumed all of its energy in moments. You really think a man that absorbs solar power is somehow immune to that? Silver Surfer could drain or short out Prime, and he can match Prime's speed. You can charge an electric car for a million years and have a million years of power reserves stored up and an EMP would still short out it's operation and render it useless.

A fist fight may be a different story, but Surfer could take Prime easily using his cosmic powers. Surfer's cosmic awareness allows him to know the source of Kal El's powers, and he has the means to either short or drain Prime's biomatrix and his GL Ring. He'd better not fight Surfer in space either, Surfer could just short him out and leave him for dead.

so basically no matter how strong Supes P gets Sliver Surfer should still be able to suck his solar energy...seems logical....and cosmic power is kinda like magic and wouldn't Supes P still be weak against magic..or has he "out grown" this weakness?

i don't think he has well it doesn't really matter power cosmic is not magic.


logically his he can do it.

But if we start using all of surfers power then he will be unbeatle

like him travelling 100's of light years in seconds lol so unrealistic to use such speed during battle but think if he did.

Lol flash will be seen proven going at full speed.

Originally posted by illadelph12
A fist fight may be a different story, but Surfer could take Prime easily using his cosmic powers. Surfer's cosmic awareness allows him to know the source of Kal El's powers, and he has the means to either short or drain Prime's biomatrix and his GL Ring. He'd better not fight Surfer in space either, Surfer could just short him out and leave him for dead.
The ONLY thing SS can do, is try to absorb Superman Primes energy, but it's not like he can do that in half a second, it takes some time (maybe not much, but still it takes time) to absorb such a gigantic amount of solar energy. And Superman Prime, who is truly superior to SS in every other way, isn't just going to stand there.

It wouldn't take much time to short it out though. Like my example of the electric car with 1,000,000 years of energy reserves being exposed to an EMP. If the power source was active when the EMP goes off it will still go dead, reserves or not. The same with Supes biomatrix. It has been disrupted before and he's lost his powers before, and it's only an energy field when you really think about it. It would only take Surfer a moment to either short Prime's powers out or alter the frequency/energy signature of his biomatrix and make it toxic to Prime, and Surfer is just as fast as Prime, if not faster.

It's actually very simple.

And how is absorbing 15,000 years of solar energy harder than absorbing a million+ year old sun/star like Phoenix did?

The Innate powers of prime are beyond physical comprehention

nice
______________
http://69.93.183.37/2311/1/upload/p668709.gif

primes sword can alter reality
did u everyone forget about that
simple: prime turns tyrant into a turkey sandwich

"The Innate powers of prime are beyond physical comprehention"

Those dramatic answers are hilarious.

Man, I'm not snappin on you, but do you have a script or something 11"?

Prime's innate powers may be "beyond physical comprehension", but I doubt they're beyond "cosmic awareness". Superman's powers, even Superman Prime's powers, are still from external sources, unlike a character like Martian Manhunter whose abilities are genetic. A character able to control, manipulate, or cut off the external stimuli that creates the reaction, as well as counteract the reaction, that fuels Superman and his various incarnations powers, like Silver Surfer, would stomp Superman.

Originally posted by illadelph12
It's perfectly logical 11". Superman Prime (Kal El)'s base powers are absorbing solar/light/cosmic energy to feed his biomatrix. Sitting in the sun for 15,000 years doesn't change that fact. Suns have existed for millions of years and a character like Phoenix consumed all of its energy in moments. You really think a man that absorbs solar power is somehow immune to that? Silver Surfer could drain or short out Prime, and he can match Prime's speed. You can charge an electric car for a million years and have a million years of power reserves stored up and an EMP would still short out it's operation and render it useless.

A fist fight may be a different story, but Surfer could take Prime easily using his cosmic powers. Surfer's cosmic awareness allows him to know the source of Kal El's powers, and he has the means to either short or drain Prime's biomatrix and his GL Ring. He'd better not fight Surfer in space either, Surfer could just short him out and leave him for dead.

And people say DC is overpowered.

Originally posted by illadelph12
"The Innate powers of prime are beyond physical comprehention"

Those dramatic answers are hilarious.

Man, I'm not snappin on you, but do you have a script or something 11"?

Prime's innate powers may be "beyond physical comprehension", but I doubt they're beyond "cosmic awareness". Superman's powers, even Superman Prime's powers, are still from external sources, unlike a character like Martian Manhunter whose abilities are genetic. A character able to control, manipulate, or cut off the external stimuli that creates the reaction, as well as counteract the reaction, that fuels Superman and his various incarnations powers, like Silver Surfer, would stomp Superman.

Just for the record supermans powers do actually stem from his genetics.

Actually, in his natural environment Prime is genetically equal to a regular human. It's the exposure to an alien external stimuli (yellow sunlight) that gives Superman his powers. Martian Manhunter, in any environment, would still be a telepathic shapeshifting humanoid regardless of external stimuli because of his genetic makeup. That's what I meant.

Superman's powers aren't a product of his normal, natural environment, it's a result of placing him in an alien environment that altered his physiological capabilities. And Surfer can cut off or reverse that reaction or remove and shut off the stimuli.

you guys do realize it's tyrant vs S prime

lol

and Tyrant is much much much stonger than SS

For the record, Superman is probably more physically powerful than Surfer. Surfer simply has the means and ability to exploit every weakness Superman has except for his weakness to magic. I'm not saying Surfer is stronger than Superman, he's just more "powerful".
If it were a boxing match my money would be on Supes all the way. All powers at play, and considering Superman's powers and basis of his powers, it's not really fair, Surfer would kill him.

With Tyrant, it wouldn't matter if it were a boxing match or all powers at play, he'd just crush Supes.

The thing with Superman Prime is his space time control which is very tricky (and ill-thought out considering that his original powers were strength, beams and flight and he was still using solar energy as prime). Technically Prime could hide in the timestream and slowly destroy Tyrant......... Well maybe not, Prime could survive but he definitely couldn't win, not with all the chicken in Kentucky.

Originally posted by eleveninches
LOL

SS beating prime.

This thread is getting siilly

Agreed. Surfer can absorb Prime but not in a snap of the finger. It's going to take a while. And Prime isn't standing around like an idiot.

Surfer isn't Phoenix, nor is he Galactus. There's a limit to him, in this case his speed to absorb. Phoenix absorbing the sun or Prime is vastly different from Surfer doing so. Oh he can do it, but not at the rate Phoenix can.

Prime would pound him to death.

However, Tyrant will pound Prime to death. The rule says Tyrant when was first created. That Tyrant is Galactus' size and much more powerful than the Tyrant that beat down, Beta Ray Bill, Surfer, Jack Of Heart, Gladiator, Terrax, etc.

Jck of Hearts is powerful??????????

Originally posted by Pepito
Jck of Hearts is powerful??????????

Yes.

Jack of Hearts is one of the most powerful humans IMO

"Surfer can absorb Prime but not in a snap of the finger. It's going to take a while. And Prime isn't standing around like an idiot.

Surfer isn't Phoenix, nor is he Galactus. There's a limit to him, in this case his speed to absorb. Phoenix absorbing the sun or Prime is vastly different from Surfer doing so. Oh he can do it, but not at the rate Phoenix can.

Prime would pound him to death. "

I don't think so.

Surfer could drain and evade him at the same time, and he can also drain Prime from behind a cosmic powered forcefield. It's not like Surfer has to be sitting perfectly still or extremely close to his target to use his powers, and he definitely doesn't have to use only one of his abilities at a time. Also, he could just emit a blast that alters the frequency/energy signature of Prime's biomatrix energy field and make it toxic to him, or he could emit an energy field that momentarily renders Primes powers inoperative (like an EMP attuned to Prime's energy signature), then blast him to atoms in his mortal state with a blast of the power cosmic.

Surfer could kill Prime, so long as he doesn't try to slug it out with him, but when does Surfer ever try to slug it out? He has the means, powers, speed, and other abilities to do it.

Originally posted by illadelph12

Surfer could kill Prime, so long as he doesn't try to slug it out with him, but when does Surfer ever try to slug it out? He has the means, powers, speed, and other abilities to do it.

He's not fighting Thor here. Prime is vastly beyond normal Superman level. Him punching Surfer, even w/ a power cosmic protecting Surfer, would put Norrin down. There's a limit to Surfer's shield, Prime would break it and take out Surfer.

Tyrant, Thanos, Terrax, Morg, and Thor hurt Surfer before. Surfer's ain't holding up against Prime. Nor would he easily absorb Prime. Prime is to Superman as Rune Thor is to Thor as War Hulk is to Hulk as Trion Juggernaut is to Juggernaut. There's a difference, Surfer isn't matching Prime's power.

Superman Prime should be below Surfer since he only partially absorbed some solar energy over a short time (cosmically speaking). It was quite a lot of energy compared to normal Supes but nothing that great. the only thing changing was Superman being closer to the sun (his body has a fixed rate) so he shoudln't have really got new powers and defifnitely not the space time control powers since he had no connection to these sort of powers originally and his body should have remained at the same rate of absorption (keeping his powers at the same level)



HOWEVER the writers decided how powerful they wnated to make Prime and so he can beat Surfer because although he uses solar energy his level of power means that Surfer cannot manipulate his energy any more than he can manipulate Galactus's enrgy stores

I said energy way too much

yea some of it doesnt really make sense...absorbing a sun over thousands of years is nothing compared to absorbing an entire sun in a few moments

Yeah but DC and Marvel operate on different rules, youre saying hes too powerful for what he did but youre comparing it to the Marvel Universe, in DC it could be different.

well...a sun is a sun...absorbing a fraction of a sun will always be less then a an entire sun...unless suns r more powerful in DC?

anyone said that SS is far faster than SMP?
his cosmic awareness could have him take off after some K-nite (if that works on prime)
SS is faster than light so yea...whatever SMP throws...SS can dodge and continue absorbing his power.

Prime is not ONLY a sun. Saying that he's ONLY a sun is like saying tyrant is ONLY a mortal

Originally posted by Wynndar
well...a sun is a sun...absorbing a fraction of a sun will always be less then a an entire sun...unless suns r more powerful in DC?


Thats exaclty what Im saying, suns could be considered more powerful in DC than Marvel, it makes sense if you compare phoenix and prime.

I guess we are going to keep going back and forth on this.

Prime is nowhere near as powerful as Galactus. His reality warping abilities come from the Sword of Heaven, not his base powers generated by his biomatrix. The source of his powers is still the same: he absorbs solar/light/cosmic energy to fuel his biomatrix, mainly solar power from a yellow sun. That hasn't changed. He still has the same weakness when facing a character like Silver Surfer, Binary, Phoenix, Molecule Man, Galactus, or any other energy manipulating character, so long as that character is fast enough to pull off the attack.

Since his powers are still a reaction to an external stimuli, which these type of characters can manipulate/remove, Prime, even though physically stronger, would still be defeated by them.

"Prime is vastly beyond normal Superman level. Him punching Surfer, even w/ a power cosmic protecting Surfer, would put Norrin down. There's a limit to Surfer's shield, Prime would break it and take out Surfer.

Tyrant, Thanos, Terrax, Morg, and Thor hurt Surfer before. Surfer's ain't holding up against Prime. Nor would he easily absorb Prime."

The main reason behind Surfer's defeats to these characters (save Tyrant who is just plain out superior, and partially Thanos for the same reason) is Silver Surfer's pacifist character traits in the comics, not his powers. Surfer is portrayed as reluctant to go all out with his full destructive capabilities. That's not a factor here in the versus forum. Also, for Prime to break through Surfer's field, Surfer would have to be dumb enough to sit still and let Prime pound away at his field to weaken it. That also is not a factor here in the versus forum. Since characters are expected to go all out, Surfer should be expected to utilize his maximum speed and other abilities to evade and attack Prime just as Prime would be expected to.

Absorbing and storing solar power for a few hundred centuries as Prime did is different from being the embodiment of the power cosmic as Galactus is. Surfer may not be able to sap Galactus's power reserves, but that is because he only was granted a miniscule fraction of that power by Galactus, but the power cosmic, which is a binding universal energy, even with the fraction Surfer has, is inherrently superior to Prime's energy, since it grants Surfer control over energy and matter, and allows Surfer to exploit Prime's weaknesses. Surfer doesn't have to outright drain Prime, all he would need to do to defeat him is momentarily short out Prime's biomatrix to make him vulnerable which Surfer is very capable of doing given he can manipulate energy. Surfer has many options in defeating Prime, and he's one of the few characters with the speed needed to pull it off.

Silver Surfer is above Superman Prime. He doesn't have to go find a piece of Kryptonite, he could alter his power cosmic blast's frequency to that of Kryptonite. Or he could grab a normal rock, turn it into Kryptonite, and chuck it down Superman Prime's throat. Norrin doesn't need to fist fight with Superman Prime, he's faster, and he's got the Power Cosmic at his disposal. He almost never fist fights. Why go blow for blow now?

There's not really enough info on Prime to justify all these Prime VS threads.

We don't know for sure whether Prime is just a supercharged Supesor whether he's an entirely different being.

Plus, with his weapons - the Sword of Truth or whatever - we don't know the extent of their abilities.

Personally, I take the view that Prime is the Ultimate version of DCs Ultimate Superhero. I believe that he's evolved beyond his original weaknesses (KNite/Magic) and his physical powers are unlimited. I believe that his sword will perform any task that he sets his will to, just like his GL Ring and that his will is practically unlimited.

But like I said, we don't know any of this for sure, n thus I'd never expect to win any argument using the above.

So, you think Prime'll beat Spectre?

All I could find on a sword linked to Superman is the Sword of Superman that granted Superman the role of Spectre until the sword eventually left him. Sword sword sword. I don't know if it's the same sword Prime had or if Prime even had a sword.

Double post

Like I said - no one knows Prime's full power. He's Supes at his maximum potential. But against something of a different dimension/plane of existence like Spectre, I don't think he could win. Physical power doesn't count in a battle like that.

"Personally, I take the view that Prime is the Ultimate version of DCs Ultimate Superhero. I believe that he's evolved beyond his original weaknesses (KNite/Magic) and his physical powers are unlimited. I believe that his sword will perform any task that he sets his will to, just like his GL Ring and that his will is practically unlimited. "

Well, there's kinda proof that he hasn't evolved beyond his weaknesses. In the future Solaris plots to kill Prime with kryptonite, and sets a plan in motion to get the last fragment of kryptonite (Batman's K Ring from the 20th century) to kill Prime. It gets thwarted and he winds up with Kyle Rayner's GL Ring, then he and Kyle (who was in the future) use their rings along with the 20th Century Superman's force vision to defeat Solaris.

Prime is still Kal EL, just older and more powerful (well, stronger), but still with the same weaknesses to magic and kryptonite. His descendents are immune to magic due to mixing with 5th Imp genes.

Ditto. His full power is unknown. He only appeared for like 10 minutes.

Just cos Solaris tried to throw KNite into the sun doesn't mean Supes would still be hurt by it, lol. And don't say that Solaris wouldn't have tried using KNite if it wouldn't work - if he was that clever he wouldn't have mistook a GL ring for K lol.

Well, considering Solaris had never seen either kryptonite or a GL ring because neither existed in the 853rd century, it makes sense.

What most people seem to think and what is fact are far from one another, who-kid. Why don't you guys try coming up with some concrete evidence that Superman Prime is not vulnerable to Kryptonite instead of, "Well, I don''t think he is." Why wouldn't he be? He's still Superman.

Superman Prime still needs sunlight to stay alive, doesn't he? Tyrant and Surfer both have cosmic awareness and energy absorption power. The simple fact that he is Superman Prime does not mean he can beat everyone.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Why don't you guys try coming up with some concrete evidence that Superman Prime is not vulnerable to Kryptonite instead of, "Well, I don''t think he is." Why wouldn't he be? He's still Superman.
Does it matter ? He can turn whatever Kryptonite Tyrant or Surfer use on him, in an onion.

Never said that. I even don't like Superman Prime, too powerful.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
What most people seem to think and what is fact are far from one another, who-kid. Why don't you guys try coming up with some concrete evidence that Superman Prime is not vulnerable to Kryptonite instead of, "Well, I don''t think he is." Why wouldn't he be? He's still Superman.

Superman Prime still needs sunlight to stay alive, doesn't he? Tyrant and Surfer both have cosmic awareness and energy absorption power. The simple fact that he is Superman Prime does not mean he can beat everyone.

its a fact kryp hurts him and no he doesnt need sun light no stay alive, just to be powerful.

Originally posted by Draco69
Ditto. His full power is unknown. He only appeared for like 10 minutes.

well that depends on how long you took to read it

why whould tyrant need Kryp i do beileve surfer is outmatched , his only way for victory is to such his energy (well who knows if he can do it or not)

but tyrant is another question, this guy can distroy Galaxies so am sure he can take him down.

How many issues has tyrant appeared in???
I can think of 4 issues that showed prime, and many more that refer to him

Originally posted by illadelph12


I guess we are going to keep going back and forth on this.

Prime is nowhere near as powerful as Galactus. His reality warping abilities come from the Sword of Heaven, not his base powers generated by his biomatrix. The source of his powers is still the same: he absorbs solar/light/cosmic energy to fuel his biomatrix, mainly solar power from a yellow sun. That hasn't changed. He still has the same weakness when facing a character like Silver Surfer, Binary, Phoenix, Molecule Man, Galactus, or any other energy manipulating character, so long as that character is fast enough to pull off the attack.

Since his powers are still a reaction to an external stimuli, which these type of characters can manipulate/remove, Prime, even though physically stronger, would still be defeated by them.

Hmmm, so Silver Surfer can absorb Prime like that. Your really upping Surfer's absorbing speed.



Pacifist? Surfer went all out at Tyrant and all he got was knocked out. He warned Thanos not to anger him; Thanos did and he gave Thanos a full does of his Power Cosmic; Thanos only smirked at his blast. Odin punked Surfer in one blast.

Warrior Madness Thor kicked his ass as well. Surfer was coming to BRB's rescue, but WM Thor kicked his ass. WM Thor is below Prime. Your giving Surfer to much credit. He's not always a pacifist, even when he's pissed, he's gotten his ass kicked at times.



Um, that's Super Sun that he spent 15,000 years in. Regular Superman gets powered up with a mere sundip from a regular sun. 15,000 years of living in a Super Sun boost should drastically up his level.

Obviously his body absorbs sunlight at a quick rate, his quick trip to the sun empowered him vastly in Our Worlds At War. 15,000 years in the Super Sun absorbing energy puts him beyond his regular levels.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Like I said - no one knows Prime's full power. He's Supes at his maximum potential. But against something of a different dimension/plane of existence like Spectre, I don't think he could win. Physical power doesn't count in a battle like that.

I dont agree hes supes at max, if he spent 16000 years in the sun would he not be more powerful? Superman has no limit to how powerful he can become.

Force field? Has he ever created one? And yes, he was stupid enough to stand around so Thanos can physically punked him the f#ck out. And where was his force field when WM Thor was pounding him with Mljornir? You'd think while he was trying to reason with Thor, he'd atleast put up a force field. Of all the appearances I've seen of him, he's never created a force field. Prime's going to pound Surfer down.

Also WM Thor and Thanos are about equal in physical power. Both are about 3X or maybe 4X regular Thor or Superman's level. Spending thousands of years in a Super Sun would put Prime way above 3X or 4X regular Thor or Superman's level.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
What most people seem to think and what is fact are far from one another, who-kid. Why don't you guys try coming up with some concrete evidence that Superman Prime is not vulnerable to Kryptonite instead of, "Well, I don''t think he is." Why wouldn't he be? He's still Superman.

Superman Prime still needs sunlight to stay alive, doesn't he? Tyrant and Surfer both have cosmic awareness and energy absorption power. The simple fact that he is Superman Prime does not mean he can beat everyone.

Well he's probably not immune to it but he is getting stronger against Kryptonite, and its not an instant kill anymore. And he survived by having liquid K put into him...So by then it would still effect him but even less so.

Why does Superman get so many toys, while Surfer gets none. Heck, at one time, Surfer had the Infinity Gauntlet, but he doesn't use it in every thread. This should simply be Superman Prime, no extra toys, versus Silver Surfer.

Well, for one, no one has said that Surfer is a physical match for Superman Prime, nor is he a physical match for Thanos (obviously.) Surfer is much faster than Superman; he transcends lightspeed. Surfer may not be able to absorb Superman Prime's energy stores momentarily,Regardless of how fast Surfer can drain the energy, he doesn't have to physically contact Superman to drain his energy. He can evade Superman, drain his energy, and attack Superman all at once. Superman would gradually grow weaker and weaker, until Surfer can blast him away with the Power Cosmic.

Thanos had absolutely no weaknesses for Surfer to exploit. Superman Prime has several.

Beyonder, as I keep having to remind people on here, in the versus forum, any character in combat is to be considered to do everything in their capability to secure a victory unless otherwise specified by the thread originator. The fact that Surfer is portrayed to have lapses in combat tactics, has a pacifist nature, and does not use the full destructive capabilities he posesses are not a factor here. Here, Surfer would use all of his abilities, which include matter and energy manipulation, cosmic energy blasts and hyperlight speed flight, in full against any opponent, meaning unlike in the comic books, he has a bloodthirsty, psychopathic, masochistic killer instinct here, and he'd do everything within his power to kill and humiliate Kal El.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Beyonder, as I keep having to remind people on here, in the versus forum, any character in combat is to be considered to do everything in their capability to secure a victory unless otherwise specified by the thread originator. The fact that Surfer is portrayed to have lapses in combat tactics, has a pacifist nature, and does not use the full destructive capabilities he posesses are not a factor here. Here, Surfer would use all of his abilities, which include matter and energy manipulation, cosmic energy blasts and hyperlight speed flight, in full against any opponent, meaning unlike in the comic books, he has a bloodthirsty, psychopathic, masochistic killer instinct here, and he'd do everything within his power to kill and humiliate Kal El.

Okay, but when did he ever create a force field around himself. And even when he goes all out, Prime can easily take Surfer's cosmic blast. Thanos and Tyrant have done this. Odin shrugged it off as well. Absorbing 15,000 years of sunlight in a Super Sun puts his durability equal to or above Thanos, Tyrant, maybe Odin. Surfer is going to do to Prime as much as he's done to Thanos, Tyrant, or Odin - which is nothing.

As for absorbing, Surfer isn't going to have time to absorb 15 thousands of sunlight stored in Prime. He'd get his face pounded. Sure Surfer might posses a variety of powers, but he's still below Prime in power. Thanos' can't do all the neat tricks Surfer can, but that doesn't mean Thanos can't kick his ass.

As for bloodthrust, so Prime is going for bloodlust but Surfer is? If both went into that mode, Surfer would get punked. Regular Supes can already move at the speed of light, so guess what Prime can move at? Prime would still knock Surfer out.

Here's how I see it:

Prime Vs. Thanos - Prime
Prime Vs. Tyrant - Prime slightly
Prime w/ GL ring & Sword Vs. Tyrant (original version) - Tyrant
Prime Vs. Odin - Odin wins. He's not as fast as Prime, but his vast magic can seriously hurt Prime. Furthermore, Odin has more raw power and more tricks than Surfer.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Beyonder, as I keep having to remind people on here, in the versus forum, any character in combat is to be considered to do everything in their capability to secure a victory unless otherwise specified by the thread originator. The fact that Surfer is portrayed to have lapses in combat tactics, has a pacifist nature, and does not use the full destructive capabilities he posesses are not a factor here. Here, Surfer would use all of his abilities, which include matter and energy manipulation, cosmic energy blasts and hyperlight speed flight, in full against any opponent, meaning unlike in the comic books, he has a bloodthirsty, psychopathic, masochistic killer instinct here, and he'd do everything within his power to kill and humiliate Kal El.

Off topic (from another topic actually, where I had to be reminded of the same thing), but I agree that Apocalypse would crush regular Superman...occasionally the fanboy in me escapes past my logic.

-DM :-)

P.S. provided Kal doesn't have his goodies (Sword/Ring) I'll take Tyrant...but I'd take Prime over Surfer...SS might run, but if he stood to try and absorb/fight, Supes would crush him.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Regular Supes can already move at the speed of light, so guess what Prime can move at? Prime would still knock Surfer out.


Sence when can normal superman move at light speed ??

And silver surfer can go far beyond that speed , he once went from one side of the galaxy to the other end in seconds.

speed wise i don't think anyone is faster than him.

but he does lack the power to do harm to Superman prime , but i i guess he can suck his energy slowly after all he is a living Sun , that just what i think SS can do.

And ya SS can create Force field also

Originally posted by Beyonder
Okay, but when did he ever create a force field around himself. And even when he goes all out, Prime can easily take Surfer's cosmic blast. Thanos and Tyrant have done this. Odin shrugged it off as well. Absorbing 15,000 years of sunlight in a Super Sun puts his durability equal to or above Thanos, Tyrant, maybe Odin. Surfer is going to do to Prime as much as he's done to Thanos, Tyrant, or Odin - which is nothing.

As for absorbing, Surfer isn't going to have time to absorb 15 thousands of sunlight stored in Prime. He'd get his face pounded. Sure Surfer might posses a variety of powers, but he's still below Prime in power. Thanos' can't do all the neat tricks Surfer can, but that doesn't mean Thanos can't kick his ass.

As for bloodthrust, so Prime is going for bloodlust but Surfer is? If both went into that mode, Surfer would get punked. Regular Supes can already move at the speed of light, so guess what Prime can move at? Prime would still knock Surfer out.

Here's how I see it:

Prime Vs. Thanos - Prime
Prime Vs. Tyrant - Prime slightly
Prime w/ GL ring & Sword Vs. Tyrant (original version) - Tyrant
Prime Vs. Odin - Odin wins. He's not as fast as Prime, but his vast magic can seriously hurt Prime. Furthermore, Odin has more raw power and more tricks than Surfer.


Okay...i know DC science is all messed up and doesnt rely on anything rational...but if Superman absorbed a sun's energy for thousands of years...wouldnt he have only absorbed a tiny fraction of a sun's energy, considering a sun burns for over a billion years? so going against any incarnation of Tyrant, Odin, or even Thanos with a fraction of a sun's power would be an utter joke...Just thought i would point out the flaw in DC reasoning...but oh well...Tyrant and Odin still stomp Prime...in any of their forms...He is still a mortal consiousness...Odin and Tyrant transcend the physical world in terms of power and intelligence...while prime is only quantitatively more powerful than the regular superman.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Okay...i know DC science is all messed up and doesnt rely on anything rational...but if Superman absorbed a sun's energy for thousands of years...wouldnt he have only absorbed a tiny fraction of a sun's energy, considering a sun burns for over a billion years? so going against any incarnation of Tyrant, Odin, or even Thanos with a fraction of a sun's power would be an utter joke...Just thought i would point out the flaw in DC reasoning...but oh well...Tyrant and Odin still stomp Prime...in any of their forms...He is still a mortal consiousness...Odin and Tyrant transcend the physical world in terms of power and intelligence...while prime is only quantitatively more powerful than the regular superman.

Well, the sun gives off energy over billions of years. Every second, solar energy is leaving the sun; however, more energy is created. Would you not agree that solar radiation is like normal radiation and is always immiting energy? Think about it, energy of the sun in one instance is not the same as energy that sun produces over 15,000. It's like the goose that lays the golden; if you kill it and take whatever is left inside the goose's stomach, that amount of golden egg is miniscule compared to the amount of eggs the goose can produce over a life time.

Secondly, Superman only needs the sunlight from thousands of miles away to power himself. You put him inside the Super Sun's core - for over 15,000 years, or 180,000 months, or 780,000 weeks, or 5,475,000 days, or 8,760,000 hours - he's gonna come out beyond his normal self.

Thirdly, normal Superman doesn't have that much solar energy in him does he? And yet he's on Thor's level. IT'S NOT THE SOLAR ENERGY, it's that his body reacts differently when exposed to yellow sunlight, giving him uncanny powers. If you think of it in terms of Prime just being the energy of 15,000 years of sunlight, your looking down the wrong road. Superman has always been an alien from Krypton, who gained super powers with his exposure to yellow sunlight, powers that put him on Thor, GL, MM's levels.

Thanos Vs. Superman - isn't Thanos vs. a small fraction of solar energy; it's Thanos Vs. Superman, who's = < Thor
Thanos Vs. Prime - isn't Thanos Vs. 15,000 years of solar energy; it's Thanos Vs. Prime, who's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Superman or Thor

Don't think of Prime's powers as nothing but a small fraction of the sun. Because an even smaller fraction of energy from a SMALLER SUN gave Clark the power to become Superman. Would you regard normal Superman as nothing but a speck of energy from a yellow sun? If that's the case, Lobo, Orion, GL, Doomsday wouldn't get a knocked about by Supes punches.

YELLOW SUNLIGHT = calalyst for Kryptonians; a.k.a. their spinach.

Superman in Kingdom Come which is only like 30 years in the future is already immune to the effects of Kryptonite. So even if they tried to use it against him, it would not work.

Tyrant gets weaker with every planet that is destroyed so 850 centuries into the future no telling how many planets have been destroyed. It was a checks and balance that Galactus gave himself and Tyrant. So Prime would kick the hell out of Tyrant in the 853rd century... but it would be close earlier in the past.

Originally posted by eleveninches


I still think prime takes it.

IM RIGHT. YOU'RE WRONG.


SO THERE !!!!

Denial... Sigh... Tyrant takes this.

Since it's become a prime vs SS thread, I'll say this.
Modern day Supes has already shown to have become partially immune to Kryptonite...I highly doubt that it will affect him as Prime.
A quick dip in the sun, powered him up immensely. 15,000 years would put him on ridiculous levels of power.
Surfer drained the Hulk...Hulk does not have a bio matrix. Its debateable whether Surfer can even drain modern supes...let alone prime..even if he could... I believe it would be like when Rogue tried to drain Magneto and Magneto shrugged it off like nothing...
The issue that I have says Prime gained powers from the very edge of time and space far beyond any metahuman ever...every and that he would share them with his ancestors as long as they remained loyal.

A pretty impressive resume'..considering there are some powerful metahumans/mutants around...

Originally posted by Jason8200
Superman in Kingdom Come which is only like 30 years in the future is already immune to the effects of Kryptonite. So even if they tried to use it against him, it would not work.

Tyrant gets weaker with every planet that is destroyed so 850 centuries into the future no telling how many planets have been destroyed. It was a checks and balance that Galactus gave himself and Tyrant. So Prime would kick the hell out of Tyrant in the 853rd century... but it would be close earlier in the past.

Yeah, and that Superman aged. Prime didn't - both are different.

Every planet destroyed? Isn't it every planet Galactus destroyed?

Secondly, this is the Original Tyrant - BEFORE GALACTUS placed that on him. So even if Galactus destroyed all those planets in the DC universe for 15,000 years or what ever, Tyrant wouldn't be effected.

Tyrant kills Prime.

No it is every planet destroyed. Not just the ones Galactus destroyed. He draws his strength from the life force of planets. So therefore if there are fewer planets... he has less strength.

Galactus placed that restriction on him from the very beginning. Not after Tyrant grew power crazy. Galactus made that restriction so he would always have an advantage over him.

Ok well even now in Superman comics it says he is building an immunity to kryptonite.

But if it is the Tyrant from back in the day... Tyrant would win. Current Tyrant would lose to Prime.

Originally posted by Jason8200
No it is every planet destroyed. Not just the ones Galactus destroyed. He draws his strength from the life force of planets. So therefore if there are fewer planets... he has less strength.

Galactus placed that restriction on him from the very beginning. Not after Tyrant grew power crazy. Galactus made that restriction so he would always have an advantage over him.

Ok well even now in Superman comics it says he is building an immunity to kryptonite.

But if it is the Tyrant from back in the day... Tyrant would win. Current Tyrant would lose to Prime.

Yeah, but Tyrant was still match for Galactus. Their fights still destroyed galaxies. As for every planet destroyed, how does planet in DC effect a ruling by Galactus who's part of the MU? Galactus is an essential to the Marvel Universe; he's not an essential or part of the DC universe.