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can u give me details about VAAPAD sabre techinque used by Windu.

What's there to know?

Either way, you can't learn it, and furthermore, if you do learn it, everybody will know your weakness after Episode III, seeing as Mace gets his arse kicked with this "vaapad" technique of his.

Read Shatterpoint by Matt Stover...

It shows Mace as the badass he is, and it tells about Vaapad.

Shatterpoint is a great novel and I highly recommend it.

Vaapad is the 7th form of lightsabre combat. Mace Windu invented it himself. It is a highly aggresive style, so few Jedi learn it as it goes very close to the dark side.

It was named after a highly dangerous tentacled predator of planet Sarapin.

indeed

i agree

this really belongs in EU fellas

look jp its a big thing now wat wit the mace sidious

look jp its a big thing now wat wit the mace v sidious

stop the spam

in a star wars insider magazine it said that maul used the 7th form also

shatterpoint is a great book
...that and hard contact and shadowhunter

i know this technique. I use it only when necessary, but i will NOT teach you it

Sora Bulq also uses Vaapad. And he trained Quinlan once in Vaapad.

borrrrinnng

Discussion of this is rather EU.

NoMeN: That was really cool!

If Mace and Sidious do fight in Ep III, 'Sid' is going to get trashed.

Sora Bulq knew Vaapad, but he wasn't a master.

I have a question: What form does Sidious use?

I think he switches forms as he goes, mixes it up a lot, and will definately be eye candy

That's what this issue of Insider hints at, which I happened upon at the supermarket. Old Palpy's gonna give Mace a run for his money. So methinks he's a Form VI master? That is, the generalized style that is a little of everything, but considered ridiculous to actually master?

That'd be interesting since form 6 seems to be the worst of them all. Either way, he'll be on crack

Form six is considered the worst, though, because it's so generalized, and often hastily implemented by the new age of diplomatic Jedi, as is most often the case in the time of AOTC and ROTS. I imagine if one could master that form (Which would be an immense undertaking) one could be very versatile and perhaps outright invincible in saber combat.

Maul mastered Mace's self-created form of combat? I had heard he was a practitioner, but I didn't think he mastered it.

Also, Mace is the only Master, and you can't say Maul would be better this time jackstain, because Mace invented the style.
I mean, (although he didn't invent it) Mace would suck with a staff saber against Maul

they said mace was the only master, coz everyone else either cant do it properly, or give in to the darkness. mace doesnt.

Indeed. It's simply amazing that he can fight like that and not give into the darkness.

It's the philosophy behind the style, really. I would imagine one couldn't use Vaapad true to its form if one doesn't resist the dark side. So using that, you could argue he is the only worthwhile practitioner of the style.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Also, Mace is the only Master, and you can't say Maul would be better this time jackstain, because Mace invented the style.
I mean, (although he didn't invent it) Mace would suck with a staff saber against Maul

i never said he was better at it......although it's not hard to be better than someone, even if they did invent the certain thing in question. He has the advantage though, because he trained harder and with a staff.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Also, Mace is the only Master, and you can't say Maul would be better this time jackstain, because Mace invented the style.
I mean, (although he didn't invent it) Mace would suck with a staff saber against Maul

also.....to master something, doesn't necessarily mean to be the best....it just means you have got it down, you're great at it, you've "mastered" it.

I might be wrong here but didn't Mace invent Vaapad between Ep1 and Ep2, and Maul was clearly dead at that time. So it would be impossible for him to have mastered the form.

No he did not. Read Star Wars Insider magazine, issue 62 in the seven deadly forms of lightsaber combat part, and there's a picture of Maul fighting obi/quigon which clearly states that they are using form 4 and he is using form 7.

Yes, I know that Maul used Form 7, Vaapad, though, isn't Form 7 in itself, it's more of an addition to the form. I can't remember where, but I read somewhere that Mace invented Vaapad to complete the form, because Form 7 was incomplete. So you could say that Form 7 consist of two forms, one complete, and one incomplete. I could be wrong though, It was awhile ago.

Nah, Vaapad and form seven are exactly the same...It never says anything about it being incomplete. Read Shatterpoint, if you haven't already. Mace used it, Depa Billaba used it, Darth Maul used it.

Well, you might be right and I might be wrong, but I still know that I've read somewhere that Mace invented Vaapad after Ep1. So there's noway in hell that Maul was a practitioner of Vaapad.

If not a completion of form 7, Vaapad is at least an extension of the form.

BTW, I have read Shatterpoint, but that was awhile ago so I can't remember if Stover mention Maul in it.

It is in shatterpoint that vaapad is form 7. its not an extension, its the exact same thing, he just gave it a name....trust me, you dont sound too sure about ur facts, and trust me, i am.

That's because I'm not, I just have this memory of reading somewhere that Mace created Vaapad AFTER Ep1 to go with the darker times the GFFA was facing, after the revelation of the sith presence and all. But since I can't remember where I read it, I really can't be stating it as proof though. So if you have proof of the contrary, I would like to see that, 'cause I would hate to be misinformed.

Well, I doubt that Maul had to train harder than Mace in regards to his own style, assuming the zabrak used it (Which I think he may have). And if someone masters something, it's like second nature. A master of Form X will defeat a practitioner of Form X,Y, or Z simply because they have perfected it. And while a dual-bladed lightsaber is certainly a very effective weapon in the right hands, I don't think it beats true mastery with a single saber. For one thing, balancing and manipulating the staff is a lot more difficult than simply using a blade. And you can only attack with one end at a time, assuming you hope to recover in time to defend yourself. It's a rather awkward weapon to use, really, and one more likely to hack off a limb than a regular lightsaber. And while I won't say that Maul is an amazing fighter, Mace is a master in the Force and a master with the lightsaber. He wins, easily. Now... was that the topic of the thread originally? I've forgotten.

im not sayin he trained in the form harder, he trained OVERALL harder.

That might or might not be true. I mean, I think Mace was perhaps the best lightsaber fighter in the order, though I have no idea what rigorous forms Maul may have had to learn as a Sith.

fair enough.

Seems so. This one needs some outside facts to push it in one direction or the other. What book was it you said had Maul's beginnings in it?

well his beginnings are in star wars episode one journal....of darth maul. its his journal through episode one and gives flashbacks and such, but its about 95 pages or so, and its not the biggest, but a good one. darth maul :shadow hunter on the other hand, is amazing. a whole novel, about darth maul, what more could u want. then there are some comics, but i got em all and ur better off readin the two books. i dont take anything away from the journal, its amazing. read it, but read shadow hunter also.

Gotcha. Yeah, I read a couple of comics, but they didn't seem to be too much more than illustrated storylines from books. Not my style, really.

yea....theyre kinda poo, but the two books will make u wanna crap urself.....they make u like darth maul so much more. shadow hunter is by far the best book ive ever read. journal is cool cuz its kinda like behind the scenes of episode one, and tells u about his training, like when he fights darth sidious. ive read each of em like 7321093874890312749034293827409812734987 times, shadow hunter, what a cool name.

Not like this is the most incredible piece of evidence as far as SW criteria goes, but I notice that Form VII isn't called Vaapad in KOTOR II. It's called Juyo something... or other. Anyways, it would make sense of form VII existed to some extent over the years, and may have been reinvented or found by Mace, who later on named it Vaapad.

point is.....theyre all the same thing, whether one or two or a thousand people have mastered it doesnt matter. it existed, people used it, end of discussion in my book.

what's in a name...it's an interesting style of fighting...that's enough for me

Vaapad is actually and offshoot of the seventh form of lightsaber conbat. True form seven was made thousands of years earlier.

chilled monkey~ ???????WHAT? they DO duel, and palps does get his ass kicked but then anakin steps in and mace gets the shock of his life

vaapad is an awesome form. i like how mace has his wide swings.....perfectly timed against an attack.....and then that last swing to take off jangos head......perfect....

does anyone have a link to descriptions of all 7 forms of saber combat?

starwarsfreak34: Cool! Thank you.

Search for it on Wilkipedia. It'll give you an in-0depth description.

Form I
Millennia before the Clone Wars, advanced technology replaced metal swords with energy-beam lightsabers. In this transition the first Form was born. Jedi Masters created Form I from ancient sword-fighting traditions, since the principles of blade combat remained much the same. The basics of attack, parry, body target zones, and the practice drills called velocities are all here.
Form II
The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen.
Today Form II is an archaism studied by almost no one in the Jedi Order, because it is not relevant to current tactical situations, in which Jedi enemies rarely fight with lightsabers. Even with the resurgence of the Sith, confrontation of an enemy with a lightsaber is an exceedingly rare prospect for a Jedi, so they continue to focus on more practical Forms. Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique

Form III
The third great lightsaber discipline was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. As these weapons spread widely into the hands of evil-doers, Jedi had to develop unique means of defending themselves. Form III thus arose from "laserblast" deflection training. Over the centuries it has transcended this origin to become a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target area compared to the relatively open style of some of the other Forms.
Obi-Wan Kenobi takes up a dedication to Form III after the death of Qui-Gon Jinn (who favored Form IV), since it was apparent to Kenobi that Jinn's defense was insufficient against the Sith techniques of Darth Maul. True Form III masters are considered invincible. Even in his elder years, Kenobi remains a formidable Form III practitioner.

Form IV
Form IV is the most acrobatic Form, heavily emphasizing Jedi abilities to run, jump, and spin in phenomenal ways by using the Force. Masters of Form IV incorporate all of the ways in which the Force helps them go beyond what is physically possible. Their lightsaber combat is astonishing to watch, filled with elaborate moves in the center of which a Jedi may be all but a blur. Yoda, with his deep emphasis on the Force in all things, is a Form IV master. Form IV was also the chosen discipline of Qui-Gon Jinn and the early choice of his apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Form V
During an era when Jedi were called upon to more actively maintain the peace in the galaxy, Form V arose alongside Form IV to address a need for greater power among the Jedi. Jedi Masters who felt that Form III could be too passive developed Form V. A Form III master might be undefeatable, but neither could he necessarily overcome his enemy. Form V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves. This Form exploits the ability of the lightsaber to block a blaster bolt and turns this defensive move into an offensive attack by deflecting the bolt deliberately towards an opponent. A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an enemy characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "peace through superior firepower." To some Jedi Knights, Form V represents a worthy discipline prepared for any threat; to others Form V seems to foster an inappropriate focus on dominating others

Form VI
In the time of Palpatine's Chancellorship, Form VI is the current standard in Jedi lightsaber training. This Form balances the emphases of other Forms with overall moderation, in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power. It is considered the "diplomat's Form" because it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation. In practice, Form VI is a combination of Forms I, III, IV, and V. Young Jedi spend their first few years studying Form I and then a year or two with each additional Form before completing their training. By comparison, a Form VI master will spend at least ten years studying only that Form after completing the basic Form I training. Form VI well suits the modern Jedi's role in the galaxy, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between star systems. However, full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficiently demanding.

Form VII
Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate descipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Form VII is still under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art.

The 6th form is used by Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Indeed. It's simply amazing that he can fight like that and not give into the darkness.
Mace has already darkness in him. He created Vapaad to channel and compensate it.
Like Yoda uses his technique and combat form to compensate his weakness: his size and little range.

No it isn't!!! The sevnth form's name is Juyo. Vaapad is a variation of Juyo invented by Mace Windu to make it more cmplete and correct some of its flaws. Juyo was an incomplete form for centuries, Mace perfected it with his new variation: Vaapad.

Vaapad is the fighting style Luke resorted to when Vader made him snap in RotJ, isn't it?

nope.. Luke never knew Vaapad, he was a practitioner of Form V, Djem So, and Mace Windu wasn't the best duelist in the order, the only two who could ever out-duel Windu were Yoda and Dooku, although I wouldn't call Dooku an overall good saberist as he's style is based around 1 on 1 fighting, and therefore useless against a blaster. Luke didn't know Juyo or Vaapad, he just gave in to the dark side to defeat Vader, simular to when Obi-Wan gave in to he's anger to defeat Darth Maul in EPI, if he didn't, Maul would of PWNED him like he did Qui-Gon...