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Hello folks, Ahnold here. I'm sorry to have to start a new thread about this, but I really wanted to know what you guys think; am I the only one that has major concerns about T4?

Say what you will about T3, but there's no denying that there was a distinctive and refreshing element of familiarity to it - Arnold as the T-850, the fight to avert Judgement Day, the terminator that comes back in time to eliminate John Connor, etc. etc; at least if you were to compare it to T2, it definitely ticks most of the same boxes in terms of the basic plot.

As I already said in my T3 review {to read THAT masterpiece {} go here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f55/t307306.html}, the ending of T3 pretty much ensured that the same basic format cannot be used again {and to be honest, I'm all for that - IMHO, the Terminator franchise could use a new direction}; however, I pretty much assumed that the plot would deal with the early days of the war post-T3, and with humanity's ultimate triumph over the machines. But now, I gather that this is not to be so ...

According to the latest rumours, T4 will apparantly be set a number of years after the events of T3, and won't feature either Clare Danes as Kathryn Brewster, or even Nick Stahl as John Connor. Worse still, Arnold might not even be making a cameo after all, due to Mario Kassar and Andrew Vajna's reluctance to film within California; hell, they're even suggesting such far-out ideas as Michael Biehn returning to the franchise as John Connor {say what?} and Ralf Moeller taking over the title role as the main Terminator! Will Terminator fans really be able to enjoy a film that is so far removed from what they know and love?

Then there's also the question of just who's directing the film: will it be Mostow {who at least now has a familiarity with the franchise, and might not mess up T4 if, as the plot suggests, this won't be a re-hash of Cameron's work}, or new man Kurt Wimmer? Questions, questions, questions - and frustratingly no answers.

Forgive my complaining {and the rather overlong post}, but after three months of being away, there's a lot that I wanna get off my chest!

Do other people agree with me?

T2 is the best, nothing can beat it...T3 I thought shouldn't have been made the way it was, and although it wasn't HORRIBLE...it could've been A LOT better. T4 I do fear for, because I see how they're screwing things up, by not even referring to him as the T800 (or T850 as they wanna say now) but calling him a T-101, now that that happened, everyone who isn't a fan calls him a T-101, when in fact he's a T800/T850 CSM-101...and I really fear for it because of the lack of Arnold. I basically, despite T2 being my favorite movie for 13 years now...i have no hopes for T4 being a good addition to the series.

The general verdict is that there isn't much expected of T4. The cast has been dumped (and as for bring back Beihn as Conner, who thought up THAT crackpot of an idea!).

Being optomistic, there is still potential for success, the storylines are there, it just requires a bit of intelligence behind the deal.

yes i expressed what ahnold exactly said in numerous threads. its a shame i fear for t4, as i did for t3, probably more. but the only thing i like so far about t4 is that kyle reese will be the center-line of the story. i dont think its very certain yet but its still a unique idea. lets see what happens

How's THAT for confusing: Kyle Reese as a central character, with Michael Biehn playing John Connor. Geez, who thinks up this stuff?

If they get Biehn to play Connor, that will be a good thing without a doubt. That settles my rest about the John Connor role being screwed up even more by Stahl. Now as for Claire Danes' role, that role might be horrible enough to be doomed by anybody who takes the reigns. Cinematography should be fantastic, but I'm worried about plot and direction. I'm also worried about the lack of Arnold. He made those movies, I don't care who says otherwise. A Terminator movie without Arnold will have an underdog status going into the film. Please tell me Mostow isn't directing it.

I'll admit that Biehn has shown that he can play the role of the "hardened resistance fighter" very well, so in that sense he'd be ideal for the part of John Connor. But IF Kyle Reese does indeed have a large role in T4 {and I'd be very surprised if he didn't}, then don't you think it'd be a tad confusing to have Biehn playing Connor, and someone ELSE playing Reese?

Personally, I don't think that Nick Stahl was so bad in the part; sure, his interpretation of John Connor was very different to that of Edward Furlong, but surely that's the point - he's SUPPOSED to be more distant and haunted than the 10 year old Connor {or 13 year old, if you believe T3 } since he now has the weight of the world on his shoulders. But I guess that if John Connor is meant to be much older in this film then it makes sense to hire an older actor, rather than putting Stahl in prosthetics for the entire film {his make up for the future scenes of T3 was alright, but not fantastic}. And I don't see why people think that Clare Danes was so terrible either; if nothing else, I found it quite interesting to learn about the future Mrs. Connor.

But I wholeheartedly agree with you that not having Arnold in this film just seems, well, wrong; the franchise practically revolves around the man, so how can they get rid of him? Even a cameo just isn't enough, IMHO. I too fear for the direction that this film seems to be taking ...

Oh, and as for who's directing the film, rumours suggest that it'll either be Mostow, or some new guy called Kurt Wimmer. I just hope that whoever gets the job doesn't mess it up. Make us proud, oh nameless director!

it wont be mostow, he has run away

Mostow reminds me of the famous shrink in the Terminator trilogy, Silberman.

And casting Beihn as Conner is indeed senseless, despite an improvement from Stahl.

Mostow reminds you of Dr. Silberman, vvv? I'm intrigued - in what way?

Oh, and alic? I'm afraid that we don't know for certain that Mostow has fled the franchise. According to recent reports, he STILL has T4 booked into his schedule. IMDB still lists him as the director ...

Yes, but during the time that Mostow was suppose direct T4 he took up another film which is scheduled to be shot around the same time that T4 was suppose to be filmed. Thus it seems that Kurt Wimmer will direct T4 instead.

all fact taken, i now think mostow should not direct. because i know that the storyline he wanted, the producers dont want that. because he signed nick stahl and claire danes for both t4 and t5, so that he could set up an elaborate storyline, which really could have made sense. but seeing that the producers have listed a different storyline, i simply dont want him to screw up any more.

But I thought that no one knew when T4 is going to be filmed?

Mostow ran off on the project, and I couldn't help but me reminded of Silberman running off as soon as he saw Arnie in T3, which by the way was one of the truly hilarious moments.

^ yes i believe that is the true humor of a terminator movie. i think t3 had humor which was irrelevant to the storyline.

Some of it may have been irrelevant humour {like Silberman running off}, but it was still funny nevertheless!

And vvv - I understand now. That's quite an apt analogy, actually .

In truth, though, we don't know for certain that Mostow is out ...

Originally posted by Ahnold
Some of it may have been irrelevant humour {like Silberman running off}, but it was still funny nevertheless!

In truth, though, we don't know for certain that Mostow is out ...

It was funny, but it was still misplaced in a film like this just like it was in Blade 3.


Oh and I'm pretty sure Mostow is out for sure....

Good humor in T3:
"Your levity is good...it relieves tension...and the fear of death."

Bad humor in T3:
Scanning the woman's clothes and saying it doesn't match...unnecessary.

Good humor in T3:
Arnold talking into the guy's hand.

Bad humor in T3:
No example here, just anything with Kate Brewster lol.

I thought that the scanning of the woman's clothes was pretty funny actually ...

And c'mon - Kate Brewster wasn't THAT bad ...

Originally posted by NoFate007
Good humor in T3:
"Your levity is good...it relieves tension...and the fear of death."

Bad humor in T3:
Scanning the woman's clothes and saying it doesn't match...unnecessary.

Good humor in T3:
Arnold talking into the guy's hand.

Bad humor in T3:
No example here, just anything with Kate Brewster lol.



True,

I'm not sure how they can have Kyle Reese and Michael Beihn at all now.

Think about it - how could it happen?

Beihn is too old to play Kyle. The only way to have Kyle is for someone younger to play him. There is no such thing as "older" Kyle.

Having Beihn play John Conner - now THAT would be rediculous.

I hope T4 is never made.

Originally posted by Ahnold
I thought that the scanning of the woman's clothes was pretty funny actually ...

And c'mon - Kate Brewster wasn't THAT bad ...

Scanning was funny, yes...but it didn't serve a real purpose. It didn't show anything new about the character or anything, and it wasn't done tastefully like the other jokes. Talk to the hand reminds me of the jokes in T2...whereas the scanning reminds me of a joke in like, Starship Troopers or something.

As for Brewster...I thought she was a completely unnecessary character, and although Danes may be good in other things and may look cuter too...I thought she was HORRIBLE in it, and looked uglier than sin in a few shots, especially while screaming. I think the movie could've been better if it had been, instead of Kate and John meeting up, John could have already been with someone, and they could be on the run with the terminator together, both trying to get knocked off...and she wouldn't be this skeptical screaming lunatic the whole movie. I especially hate how she's like that the whole time, until she gets to the safety bunker, then she suddenly understands everything? Great job script writers.

kate brewster is a terrible character, only reason why it was made was to show that john connor gets killed in the future but his spouse sends a terminator back. a lot of un-necessary reasons, thats why i am saying if they make t4 the amount of plotholes will be so much that it will become more of a laughing stock. but then again, i would love to see how t4 turns out

I also couldn't stand Kate, particularly when they tried to line her character parallel to Sarah Conner, and utter insult !!

Sigh ... I'll never convince you guys of the merits of T3 ...

I know, I know ... "what merits?" ...

I'll give ya full marks for persistance Ahnold.

Originally posted by Ahnold
Sigh ... I'll never convince you guys of the merits of T3 ...

I know, I know ... "what merits?" ...

Kate Brewster is no Sarah Connor, but I still liked the character ...

Well when you look at her character was necessary, John needed a wife and her eventual involvment would also be crucial in a T4.

Still though, a wife with more persona and substance would be nice.

I completely agree with that, perhaps we can finally get to see that in T4 since Danes won't be there to ruin the character again.

Or maybe it will be even worse....

Worse than Danes?

the character kate brewster will be there. judging from the t3 games that i have played, her character is pretty mature and pretty bad-as$.in the future that is

My point exactly, and if we are lucky they will cast a very good and well casted actress for the role of Kate.

What I thought was even worse than Claire Danes' character was the fact that the T-850 stated that Kate would be important to the resistance and eventually their "children" would play a major role too.

Excuse me, but when there's a war going on and you've got killer cyborgs after you, who has got time for nookie, let alone giving birth to children??? A man in John's position has no time to side track himself from the Human Resistance battle plans:

John Conner: "Terribly sorry chaps but the wife is wearing that special lingerie again tonight. Can we continue this meeting about how we're going to attack SkyNet tomorrow?"

The Terminator in T3 said Kate Brewster was important and eventually Conners' kids would be important to the resistance. Yet in T1 and T2 we're led to believe that it's John, and only John, who is/can be our saviour.

This is one of the plotholes that will have to be covered in the fourth film, which is why I think they shouldn't bother making one.

I don't think the whole T4 thing is a good idea. Yet I do think the guy who was in the first one that was John's dad should have played John Conner in P3. What the hell is the guy doing today anyways? Nothing most likley. I doubt he was busy.robot

It would come off wierd if they casted the same guy.

And Michael Beihn just does the occasional role these days.