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Justice League's Team- The Flash(Wally) and Martian Manhunter

Fantastic Four's Team- Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Girl, Human Torch, Thing, Dr. Doom, and The Hulk.

Rules-

Each team will have complete knowledge about the opposing team's powers and abilities.

Everybody will be fighting to win by any means necessary. They have been informed that they are fighting for the universe and that anybody they kill will be revived.

The battlefield is a featureless environment which only has a ground made out of unknown material.

Everybody will only be allowed to use weapons that they usually and consistently carry on them. In other words, Dr. Doom has his advanced suit and any technology that it carries. Everybody else will have nothing, but their powers.

Everybody was allowed to move at the exact same time with the intent to do whatever they can to bring their team to victory.

In order for a team to be defeated, all of their members must be either killed, knocked out, forced into submission, or completely immobilized.

Who wins?

ok....wow...Id have to say that those two alone could take this..The flash would take EVERYONE by just vibrating through them and making them explode....except maybe Doom since he probly has some freakin devices in his armour to do something...but then MM would just turn his brain off.....

Kinda ended the fight by saying how both teams have complete knowledge of each other. Richards and Doom both together with knowledge of the JLA Team could easily conjure up protection.

Then you have the other 3 of the F4, plus Hulk.

-AC

Originally posted by Blair Wind
ok....wow...Id have to say that those two alone could take this..The flash would take EVERYONE by just vibrating through them and making them explode....except maybe Doom since he probly has some freakin devices in his armour to do something...but then MM would just turn his brain off.....

I guess I could go with that.

how long do the teams get knowledge of the others prior to the fight?

And did this forum ever come to a consensus about Flash exploding people??...because I've never seen it (and really don't believe it at this point), and maybe I missed it on a thread somewhere but I haven't seen an issue number either.

If he can't, then Flash and MM lose. MM can't telepathize Hulk and Doom (not sure if Sue's shields would do anything there) and a continuous sonic clap from the Hulk would keep Flash at a safe distance (if he knows it's coming and doesn't run right into it, he might be able to stay away but couldn't come close...and Sue could have a shield around everyone else to guard against the clap.)

And if they have prior knowledge of their opponents then Reed and Doom won't let their team be vulnerable to a Flash-attack before the fighting even starts.

-DM

sigh...

Flash cannot make people explode. I've proved this before.

Currently, Johnny Storm is a herald. He'd kick Flash and MM's ass.

More like the Fantastic Six, huh?

I was pretty torn, until you said that both teams get a full understanding of their oppositions abilities. Doom and Richards are not people who would take that lightly. However, if they're not allowed to bring anything new into battle (gadgets or whatever), they're somewhat limited in terms of what they can do to stop someone who can move at near lightspeed. But so much depends on how quickly Flash could take out those two, Sue (before she gets her field up?), and then how well he and MM could work in tandem to bring down Hulk, who's probably the next biggest threat.

Personally, I think this comes down to how fast Sue can put up a force field vs. how Fast Flash can reach her and defeat her.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
sigh...

Flash cannot make people explode. I've proved this before.

Currently, Johnny Storm is a herald. He'd kick Flash and MM's ass.

Good.

I thought maybe the plague that began with stupid X-Men power upgrades was spreading to DC.

-DM

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
sigh...

Flash cannot make people explode. I've proved this before.


You did? Really? Wow, when?

Did you hear? Johnny Storm is a herald! That means he has the power cosmic! He would kick Flash's ass!

Originally posted by nigel45
You did? Really? Wow, when?
Flash&Supes vs Hulk&Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Flash&Supes vs Hulk&Juggernaut.

Ah, now I see. Since you arrived at the opinion that he cannot, it is an instant fact.

Exactly.

J/K. If somone has a power, they will demonstrate it at least once. Flash has never caused anyone to explode.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Exactly.

J/K. If somone has a power, they will demonstrate it at least once. Flash has never caused anyone to explode.

Don't get me wrong, that's good reasoning and all, but that doesn't make it true. Vibrating through something and causing it to explode would not be a power separate from the ones Flash already has, just a different way of using them, an ability. You're right, to my knowledge, Flash has never used this ability. There are possible answers as to why he may HAVE this ability without ever USING it, but they don't mean a whole lot. What I'm really trying to say is, I don't think this is a question with an easy answer. For all we know, this is an ability Flash has always "had", and next month he's going to demonstrate it. I realize you have a differing opinion, but to me, it doesn't seem much of a stretch to say that Flash is capable of something like this. Maybe it's because I'm a "fanboy", as hard as I try not to be. But honestly, I think it mostly comes from reading that Top Ten Superheroes issue of Wizard when I was 11 years old (before I even knew about Flash) and hearing them say that he could vibrate through people. Either way, I'll concede. Flash has not demonstrated this ability, so we should not assume he has it.

Very understandable. I applaud and agree with your reasoning.

The very second Flash makes someone explode in a comic, we will know that he is capable of doing so. Until then, it should not be considered as one of his abilities.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Very understandable. I applaud and agree with your reasoning.

The very second Flash makes someone explode in a comic, we will know that he is capable of doing so. Until then, it should not be considered as one of his abilities.

Yep.

Originally posted by Scoobless
how long do the teams get knowledge of the others prior to the fight?

The enemy's info was released only moments before the starting bell. Also, no preparation or action could be taken from either team before the starting bell. I hope that answers your question.

I did my best with the rules to make it a battle with absolutely no prep and no outside interference. I gave everybody info on their enemies, because I didn't want somebody to argue that one of the teams would lose due to them underestimating their opponents. I increased everybody's blood lust to the maximum to ensure that nobody would argue that one of the teams would lose due to them holding back and their refusal to kill.

I realize that I may have confused you, or did not answer your question completely. If you have any more problems, let me know.

Wow! Nige, Cosmic - that was some of the most grown up communication I've ever seen on this forum lol! Good example of behaviour guys.

J'onnz and Flash are awesome heroes, but they're out matched in this.

The Fantastic Four are the best super-team ever created - they compliment eachother really well, rather than just being a motley. I think the Teen Titans come a good second to these guys when it comes to working together.

Then you add the deviousness and tech of Dr Doom and the powerhouse of the Hulk and you've pretty much got all the bases covered!

Yeah you have two genius level heroes with knowledge of their enemies. you have two bricks with the thing and the hulk to act as human shields plus the human torch to fly around and shoot flames and the invisible woman to create force fields.

Maybe if the DC team had like one more person like maybe wonder woman it would be closer.

In short Marvel eats Dc.

3 superhuman geniuses. Bruce Banner is just as smart as Vic or Reed.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Wow! Nige, Cosmic - that was some of the most grown up communication I've ever seen on this forum lol! Good example of behaviour guys.

J'onnz and Flash are awesome heroes, but they're out matched in this.

The Fantastic Four are the best super-team ever created - they compliment eachother really well, rather than just being a motley. I think the Teen Titans come a good second to these guys when it comes to working together.

Then you add the deviousness and tech of Dr Doom and the powerhouse of the Hulk and you've pretty much got all the bases covered!

I would like to second Zephro's comment on Cosmic and Nigel's debating skills. That was very impressive. Way to keep things very civil guys. Too bad I can't seem to mimic their talents.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
The enemy's info was released only moments before the starting bell. Also, no preparation or action could be taken from either team before the starting bell. I hope that answers your question.

if they get info on the other team just before the start then Flash will take out Torch before he flames on and she does anything, MM will take out Reed and Doom with telepathic attacks.... then Flash would take out Thing...... at this point MM could try the telepathy on the Hulk..... but that wouldn't be smart as the Hulk has multiple personalities and which ever emerges will target Manhunter for the attack and rip him apart

that'd leave Flash and Hulk........ i can't see either beating the other

i can't find a suitable field to vote in.... lol

Originally posted by Scoobless
if they get info on the other team just before the start then Flash will take out Torch before he flames on and she does anything, MM will take out Reed and Doom with telepathic attacks.... then Flash would take out Thing...... at this point MM could try the telepathy on the Hulk..... but that wouldn't be smart as the Hulk has multiple personalities and which ever emerges will target Manhunter for the attack and rip him apart

that'd leave Flash and Hulk........ i can't see either beating the other

i can't find a suitable field to vote in.... lol

I should have put an option for a draw, for people that think this will turn into a standstill. My mistake.

Scoobles, Martian Manhunter's speed and strength is usually compared to Superman. Flash can deliver infinity punches. How can the hulk last any amount of time with MM and Flash unmercifully beating him down at super speed?

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
I should have put an option for a draw, for people that think this will turn into a standstill. My mistake.

Scoobles, Martian Manhunter's speed and strength is usually compared to Superman. Flash can deliver infinity punches. How can the hulk last any amount of time with MM and Flash unmercifully beating him down at super speed?

"Beating down the hulk" ? You know when you make him angry he gets stronger right?

Okay both team have prep time so they know to watch out for the other's tricks like the flash trying to run over everybody. The marvel team has 3 genius level people ... Bruce banner (smart) Mr. Fantastic (smarter) and Doctor doom (smartest). With prep time they could think up a great plan.

ok why is it that people go and say that the flash is physically overrated on these boards then go and underrate him intelectually?? i mean he is by no way a geniuse but he can calculate things at lightning speed.... even if doom is smarter then the flash the flash could come up with literally a thousand tatical possibilities while Doom has thought of only one.... and i just know that somebody is gonna say well that one is the one thats gonna make them victorios but common....he would have to test it and come up with variable decisions as to what might happen if the flash did this or if MM did that, while the flash could do the same thing....just waay faster....and they also have the advantage in that they can communicate through MMs telepathy....id say the last person on there team would be hulk and well....flash's infinity punch is pretty hard and MM is no slouch...i still think these two could take it....

THIS is an example of what a maxed out Flash could do...

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/attachments/050408143304/DFvsA03.jpg


The FF go down. Hard.

Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
"Beating down the hulk" ? You know when you make him angry he gets stronger right?

Okay both team have prep time so they know to watch out for the other's tricks like the flash trying to run over everybody. The marvel team has 3 genius level people ... Bruce banner (smart) Mr. Fantastic (smarter) and Doctor doom (smartest). With prep time they could think up a great plan.

This is a no prep fight. They are only allowed equipment that they always carry on them. Also, both teams got to move at the exact time. I gave them knowledge of each other to avoid anybody arguing that one of the teams would lose because they underestimated the other team and took it easy on them.

As for your question, Yes, I know that Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder. I think almost everybody knows that. He has had that ability for most of his career, if not all of it.

So I ask, how is the hulk supposed to deal with MM unleashing punches at super speed and Flash delivering numerous infinity punches?

That question goes to anyone.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
This is a no prep fight. They are only allowed equipment that they always carry on them. Also, both teams got to move at the exact time. I gave them knowledge of each other to avoid anybody arguing that one of the teams would lose because they underestimated the other team and took it easy on them.

As for your question, Yes, I know that Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder. I think almost everybody knows that. He has had that ability for most of his career, if not all of it.

So I ask, how is the hulk supposed to deal with MM unleashing punches at super speed and Flash delivering numerous infinity punches?

That question goes to anyone.

I guess nobody is going to answer my question.

(takes pity on the man and decides to answer) .....i dont think he can....see the hulk is a big physical person and he has enhanced duriblity, and a healing factor, buuuuuuuut i think that with a speed of light flury of HARD (common things at that speed HAVE to hurt) punches flash could take Hulk down....side note: i know flash can "give" people speed, but is that only with those using the speed force? cuz if its not couldnt he give it to MM and then its two speedsters, with one that has super strengh and other powers

Can't Flash get something that cuts Hulk, decapitate Hulk and burn the wound before he can regenerate?

Meh, I have probably been reading too much Herkules.

But would it be possible?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Very understandable. I applaud and agree with your reasoning.

The very second Flash makes someone explode in a comic, we will know that he is capable of doing so. Until then, it should not be considered as one of his abilities.

Not to start a heated debate over this, but recently I was reading an older (mid nineties perhaps) issue of the JLA in which Flash's body was taken over by these parasitic face aliens. Long story short, they were controlling him and Batman had to try and free him. Flash mentions to Batman that he could "stick his hand into his skull, making it explode like a watermelon", or something to that affect. Of course he didn't actually DO this to Batman, so this does not prove a whole lot, but I think it shows a certain amount of evidence to this end. But yes, I still feel that we should not consider it a capability at this point.

Oh and I'm at school right now, so when I get home I'll try to get you all the issue number I'm reffering to.

M'kay.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Can't Flash get something that cuts Hulk, decapitate Hulk and burn the wound before he can regenerate?

Meh, I have probably been reading too much Herkules.

But would it be possible?

The F4 + DOOM+ HULK is way too much for TJL. As far as intelligence ratings it goes #1 Reed #2 DOOM #3 Banner. Reed and DOOM work together to come up with a device that slows down time (very fesible for those two.) And the Flash is now nothing but a guy in a cool red suit. Just a thought. The rest of the Jonnie,Ben,Sue,HULK would eliminate MM and WW relitively quickly even if she was present too. IMO

Originally posted by Tony Stark
The F4 + DOOM+ HULK is way too much for TJL. As far as intelligence ratings it goes #1 Reed #2 DOOM #3 Banner. Reed and DOOM work together to come up with a device that slows down time (very fesible for those two.) And the Flash is now nothing but a guy in a cool red suit. Just a thought. The rest of the Jonnie,Ben,Sue,HULK would eliminate MM and WW relitively quickly even if she was present too. IMO

'Cept they don't get any prep time or anything to build with.

if Sue can get a shield up before Flash reaches her then i'll go with the FF team

Originally posted by demigawd
THIS is an example of what a maxed out Flash could do...

etc

etc



was it wally in those pics? his costume looks different

Originally posted by Blair Wind
(takes pity on the man and decides to answer) .....i dont think he can....see the hulk is a big physical person and he has enhanced duriblity, and a healing factor, buuuuuuuut i think that with a speed of light flury of HARD (common things at that speed HAVE to hurt) punches flash could take Hulk down....side note: i know flash can "give" people speed, but is that only with those using the speed force? cuz if its not couldnt he give it to MM and then its two speedsters, with one that has super strengh and other powers

I appreciate your pity.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
The F4 + DOOM+ HULK is way too much for TJL. As far as intelligence ratings it goes #1 Reed #2 DOOM #3 Banner. Reed and DOOM work together to come up with a device that slows down time (very fesible for those two.) And the Flash is now nothing but a guy in a cool red suit. Just a thought. The rest of the Jonnie,Ben,Sue,HULK would eliminate MM and WW relitively quickly even if she was present too. IMO

They only have usual equipment in this fight and each team take actions at the exact same time.

I don't think Flash or MM are going to let them cook up some device.

Originally posted by Scoobless
if Sue can get a shield up before Flash reaches her then i'll go with the FF team

There's no way Sue can get a shield up in time. I believe she thinks as fast as normal person. If she does think faster than a normal person, she still wouldn't be able to think fast enough to make a difference.

Um the last time Doom and Reed worked together they took on a Celestial. Doom and Reed leading the rest of the FF and the Hulk r pretty unstoppable. Saying the Flash is going to make people explode and overpower the whole Marvel team at once is ridiculous. Here's my take...Doom knowing what Flash and MM r capable of uses sorcery to immediately negate and protect the team from Flash...Then Reed and Doom engineer a bio-weapon against MM that eliminates his shapeshifter cohesion, eliminating most of his versatility. The FF r also regularly protected by psionics...just look at the time they played around with X-Man...in addition to the fact that IW can protect the whole team from telepathy as well. Doom's mind is so determined that Prof X couldnt enter his mind...no reason to believe MM would do any better. Hulk has also demonstrated resistance to telepathy. Now IW makes the retinas of both MM and flash invisible...uh-oh, now their blind and worthless...Thing and Hulk easily murder the Flash...the Human Torch roasts MM with nova flame and he dies too.

-the end

If they know there is going to be a fight, Sue protects the team with a field before the fight begins...saying Flash would go into the fight with that strategy would be as likely as Sue putting Flash and MM in aforcefield before they even enter the fight scene, and launch them into the Sun.

Is it just me or is nobody gettin the fact that they dont get prep time??????!! they get like 2 second prep time....does that sound ok? i mean its like this....here Mr. Doom here is a list of the flashes powers...then boom....fight!! and i already stated how intellectually The flash and MM could win...through the speed of his mind, not the actual knowledge....

The flash is pretty smart actually... he's figured out things in the absence of Batman before, and MM is a tactical genius.

All in all, this is a good match up. Would the Human Torch render MM powerless though since he is surrounded in flame or could MM telepathically turn off all their powers... (like he did with the rest of the white martians on earth?)

That I believe is what would determine the outcome of this fight.

*Side Note* Flashes Mass punch is real. He used it against a martian posing as a super speedster in the JLA series.

Originally posted by Wynndar
If they know there is going to be a fight, Sue protects the team with a field before the fight begins...saying Flash would go into the fight with that strategy would be as likely as Sue putting Flash and MM in aforcefield before they even enter the fight scene, and launch them into the Sun.

If I remember correctly, Martians can become intangible and invisible as well? That would render the field useless.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Um the last time Doom and Reed worked together they took on a Celestial. Doom and Reed leading the rest of the FF and the Hulk r pretty unstoppable. Saying the Flash is going to make people explode and overpower the whole Marvel team at once is ridiculous. Here's my take...Doom knowing what Flash and MM r capable of uses sorcery to immediately negate and protect the team from Flash...Then Reed and Doom engineer a bio-weapon against MM that eliminates his shapeshifter cohesion, eliminating most of his versatility. The FF r also regularly protected by psionics...just look at the time they played around with X-Man...in addition to the fact that IW can protect the whole team from telepathy as well. Doom's mind is so determined that Prof X couldnt enter his mind...no reason to believe MM would do any better. Hulk has also demonstrated resistance to telepathy. Now IW makes the retinas of both MM and flash invisible...uh-oh, now their blind and worthless...Thing and Hulk easily murder the Flash...the Human Torch roasts MM with nova flame and he dies too.

-the end

Both Flash and MM can make it to Doom before he gets a chance to...

1. use sorcery to conjure up something to negate Flash.
2. have Reed help him engineer a bio-weapon.
3. go into a kitchen and whip up some scrambled eggs.

Originally posted by Wynndar
If they know there is going to be a fight, Sue protects the team with a field before the fight begins...saying Flash would go into the fight with that strategy would be as likely as Sue putting Flash and MM in aforcefield before they even enter the fight scene, and launch them into the Sun.

Sue can't protect the team before the fight begins. Both teams start the fight at the same time.

Flash cant get to them if they know his powers...and saying Flash would blitz the whole team is like saying IW would place an invisible bubble in his brain...they dont need prep time to beat two morons like Flash and MM...in the Rising Storm story arc...Richards improvised a device in moments that switched Sue and Johnny's powers...he didnt build the device at the baxter building, but on the turff of their present opponents. He was using someone else's tech...and oh, that tech was also invisible, he had to firgure out what it was by using his body to displace all the air in the room...with Doom's help....they are easily smart enough to trash Flash and MM...like i said, last time they teamed up they took on a celestial.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
There's no way Sue can get a shield up in time. I believe she thinks as fast as normal person. If she does think faster than a normal person, she still wouldn't be able to think fast enough to make a difference.

depends on how the fight starts.... if she gets any time at all she'll have a field up...... evein if they start at the same time it's a matter of Flash reaching her before she can think...... it'd be close..... (if he even goes after her first)

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
If I remember correctly, Martians can become intangible and invisible as well? That would render the field useless.

a lot of force fields prevent phased beings passing through

Originally posted by Wynndar
Flash cant get to them if they know his powers...and saying Flash would blitz the whole team is like saying IW would place an invisible bubble in his brain...they dont need prep time to beat two morons like Flash and MM

Haha. Sure they are.

Manhunter is a genius (albeit probably not on par with Doom or Reed) and Flash aint too shabby himself. They're smart enough at least to know how to fight.

Let's assume that since Flash is, well, the Flash, he speed blitzes this team. That means that the FF team has, oh I'll be generous, one second to react. Do you really think Doom or anyone else for that matter could pull off ANYTHING, let alone some advanced sorcery to protect everyone?

Flash speed blitzes because that's what he does. IW does not put bubbles in people's brains like it's her only power. They are not the same thing at all.

If Sue puts up a field, I agree that neither Flash or MM are going to get through it. But I have a hard time imagining that she can react as quickly as the Flash can.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Flash cant get to them if they know his powers...and saying Flash would blitz the whole team is like saying IW would place an invisible bubble in his brain...they dont need prep time to beat two morons like Flash and MM...in the Rising Storm story arc...Richards improvised a device in moments that switched Sue and Johnny's powers...he didnt build the device at the baxter building, but on the turff of their present opponents. He was using someone else's tech...and oh, that tech was also invisible, he had to firgure out what it was by using his body to displace all the air in the room...with Doom's help....they are easily smart enough to trash Flash and MM...like i said, last time they teamed up they took on a celestial.

Flash blitzing the team is not the same as IW putting a bubble in his brain. IW thinks grossly slower than Flash moves.

Richards will not have moments to improvise a device in this fight.

Originally posted by Scoobless
depends on how the fight starts.... if she gets any time at all she'll have a field up...... evein if they start at the same time it's a matter of Flash reaching her before she can think...... it'd be close..... (if he even goes after her first)

Flash is fast enough to deliver a blow to each member of her team before she blinks. Her thought process is almost frozen in time compared to him.

Wally West is one of the Flashes that has power over the Speed Force... If he uses that... its over for the entire FF. One time the Flash hit someone while he was in the Speed Force and killed them in one punch. Martian Manhunter is able to turn invisible and has telepathic powers as well as super strength... flight... projectile beams from his eyes... invulnerable... shape shift... etc.

Flash is one of the only people that actually does speed blitz. He prob wouldnt have that easy of a time against the Hulk but he can vibrate through him.

Also you have to look at it like if this is the Professor Hulk or Savage Hulk? If its Savage then he is prob not the best team player and would not understand any type of list given to him explaining the JLA's powers. MM could just shape shift into Betty and tell Hulk that the FF hurt her (him).

These two are pretty powerful and the only way the FF Team has a chance is if HT is able to be considered as a Herald. If not then JLA wins.

I think whoever made this match seriously doesn't like DC lol!

I still reckon that the Marvel team have the upper hand here by a long way.

But never, ever discount the Flash.

He will always do something new with the speed force that u'd never thought possible.

For example - they get warned by Flash, who's travelled back from the future, that Sue is about to use a bubble to explode MM's head.

Flash now knows to destroy Sue with one High Velocity Punch before she can react.

Still leaves the Hulk to deal with....

Y'know, Jason8200's scenario for taking down Hulk seems pretty reasonable to me, except for the fact that MM probably doesn't know who she is.

I don't know Zephro, I think there are some believable ways for Flash to take this, without even using the powers that no one is sure he has.

Originally posted by Jason8200
Wally West is one of the Flashes that has power over the Speed Force... If he uses that... its over for the entire FF. One time the Flash hit someone while he was in the Speed Force and killed them in one punch. Martian Manhunter is able to turn invisible and has telepathic powers as well as super strength... flight... projectile beams from his eyes... invulnerable... shape shift... etc.

Flash is one of the only people that actually does speed blitz. He prob wouldnt have that easy of a time against the Hulk but he can vibrate through him.

Also you have to look at it like if this is the Professor Hulk or Savage Hulk? If its Savage then he is prob not the best team player and would not understand any type of list given to him explaining the JLA's powers. MM could just shape shift into Betty and tell Hulk that the FF hurt her (him).

These two are pretty powerful and the only way the FF Team has a chance is if HT is able to be considered as a Herald. If not then JLA wins.

Jason8200, its not really fair to use the idea of Flash vibrating through Hulk, because Flash has been shown not to be able to vibrate through certain things. He may able to vibrate through him, but lets not use that theory just to keep things simple.

Besides, taking Flash's vibrating ability away wouldn't matter too much. Flash could knock Hulk out with a barrage of infinity punches.

As for your Hulk question, the Hulk I had in mind for the fight was savage Hulk. But, if anybody thinks Professor Hulk would make a difference, they can still tell us the different outcomes.

Bump

In my opinion Hulk and Thing could take those 2, theres no need for Doom and the rest of the FF. Ben is a very smart strategist and since both he and the Hulk have proven to be resistant against most of Onslaught's telepathy i dont see MM's being a problem. And the Flash would go down in one flick from either of these guys, and then it would just be MM vs Hulk and Thing in a brawl in which MM has absolutely no chance.

Are you guys serious?

Flash can kill all 6 of these guys in less than a second.

I'm not even being biased or anything here, cuz I'd much rather see Marvel win, but they just don't stand a chance against Flash.

Even with Doom and Richard's prep time. I don't believe for one second that they could think of anyway at all to protect themselves from his onslaught.

As soon as the light turns green, the six will be dead before the green light even reaches their pupils.

someone like Doom HAS to have psi-defence gear in his armour (Iron Man does) plus Doom has fairly intense magical powers to back up his tech..... i think he'd be the toughest guy for the DC team to beat.... in fact i don't think they would beat him at all with the other 5 people backing him up

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Are you guys serious?

Flash can kill all 6 of these guys in less than a second.

rules state that they're told each others powers immediately prior to the fight... so Flash will run full speed into an impenetrable invisible force field and take himself out of the fight

Originally posted by Scoobless
rules state that they're told each others powers immediately prior to the fight... so Flash will run full speed into an impenetrable invisible force field and take himself out of the fight

Scoobles, in the rules, I state that everybody is allowed to move at the exact same time. So, they may have knowledge about each other moments before the fight; however, they can not do anything about it until the fight bell rings. This is a no prep fight.

If a bell rings before they start to fight Flash takes them out in a nanosecond.

Martian Manhunter just watches.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Are you guys serious?

Flash can kill all 6 of these guys in less than a second.

I'm not even being biased or anything here, cuz I'd much rather see Marvel win, but they just don't stand a chance against Flash.

Even with Doom and Richard's prep time. I don't believe for one second that they could think of anyway at all to protect themselves from his onslaught.

As soon as the light turns green, the six will be dead before the green light even reaches their pupils.

I concur.

Originally posted by armandovalles
In my opinion Hulk and Thing could take those 2, theres no need for Doom and the rest of the FF. Ben is a very smart strategist and since both he and the Hulk have proven to be resistant against most of Onslaught's telepathy i dont see MM's being a problem. And the Flash would go down in one flick from either of these guys, and then it would just be MM vs Hulk and Thing in a brawl in which MM has absolutely no chance.

I am not really sure how to respond to this.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
Scoobles, in the rules, I state that everybody is allowed to move at the exact same time. So, they may have knowledge about each other moments before the fight; however, they can not do anything about it until the fight bell rings. This is a no prep fight.

ok .... but how about their normal prep?... by that i mean that Doom pretty much always has his force field on... so it wouldn't be considered additional fight prep

Originally posted by Scoobless
ok .... but how about their normal prep?... by that i mean that Doom pretty much always has his force field on... so it wouldn't be considered additional fight prep

Good question. Yea, I'll allow anything that the characters always have on them.

Originally posted by Scoobless
ok .... but how about their normal prep?... by that i mean that Doom pretty much always has his force field on... so it wouldn't be considered additional fight prep

I don't think that really matters.

One, Flash could just vibrate and slip right inside said forcefield, then kill Doom.

Two, he could still pull off a high speed punch, sending Doom flying out of the stratosphere. Forcefield or not, Doom goes down to Flash.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I don't think that really matters.

One, Flash could just vibrate and slip right inside said forcefield, then kill Doom.

Two, he could still pull off a high speed punch, sending Doom flying out of the stratosphere. Forcefield or not, Doom goes down to Flash.

I concur.

Did you guys read JLA #3?

Flash does the Infinity mass punch on Zum sending him into the atmostsphere at escape velocity which is 7 miles per second.

Zum wasnt standing still either Flash ran up behind him and smacked him. Zum is no slouch in the speed department either.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Did you guys read JLA #3?

Flash does the Infinity mass punch on Zum sending him into the atmostsphere at escape velocity which is 7 miles per second.

Zum wasnt standing still either Flash ran up behind him and smacked him. Zum is no slouch in the speed department either.

Hey, snoopdogg, do you have a guess on how many times he could hit Zum with an IMP, before Zum blinks?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I don't think that really matters.

One, Flash could just vibrate and slip right inside said forcefield, then kill Doom.

Two, he could still pull off a high speed punch, sending Doom flying out of the stratosphere. Forcefield or not, Doom goes down to Flash.

not if he doesn't know about the force field, if he hits it it gives Sue time to use her own fields and also make her entire team invisible

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
Hey, snoopdogg, do you have a guess on how many times he could hit Zum with an IMP, before Zum blinks? I wouldnt know what to guess but I imagine it would be alot.

Originally posted by Scoobless
not if he doesn't know about the force field, if he hits it it gives Sue time to use her own fields and also make her entire team invisible

Rules-

Each team will have complete knowledge about the opposing team's powers and abilities.

Flash knows about the forcefield. And Sue's abilities. Pure and simple.

Concerning Wally's vibration and explosion:
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/wally.html
"He used to be able to vibrate through solid objects, but now doing so causes them to explode."

Continued:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flash
"West can vibrate through objects; in the past, West would cause whatever he vibrated through to explode, but has recently shown this to be a controlled ability as he can pass through objects without any ensuing explosion"

The reason why Wally doesn't do something like this is to people is what he even mentioned in the last Flash comic. He doesn't want to kill.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
Justice League's Team- The Flash(Wally) and Martian Manhunter

Fantastic Four's Team- Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Girl, Human Torch, Thing, Dr. Doom, and The Hulk.

Rules-

Each team will have complete knowledge about the opposing team's powers and abilities.

Everybody will be fighting to win by any means necessary. They have been informed that they are fighting for the universe and that anybody they kill will be revived.

The battlefield is a featureless environment which only has a ground made out of unknown material.

Everybody will only be allowed to use weapons that they usually and consistently carry on them. In other words, Dr. Doom has his advanced suit and any technology that it carries. Everybody else will have nothing, but their powers.

Everybody was allowed to move at the exact same time with the intent to do whatever they can to bring their team to victory.

In order for a team to be defeated, all of their members must be either killed, knocked out, forced into submission, or completely immobilized.

Who wins?

Justice league hands down...

But the fight isnt tht fair...2 on what 6...? id say bring on hawk Girl!

Originally posted by Enslaved
Justice league hands down...

But the fight isnt tht fair...2 on what 6...? id say bring on hawk Girl!

No way. Hawk Girl would be overkill on the Justice League's side. I mean, Flash is quite enough, but with HG, that'd just be way too much. They wouldn't even try fighting her.

Why wouldnt they fight her...I mean Sue Richards against Hawk girl is a fair fight..

Originally posted by Enslaved
Why wouldnt they fight her...I mean Sue Richards against Hawk girl is a fair fight..

Heh, I was supporting you actually.

I'm saying that I believe Hawk Girl to be very hardcore and an amazing fighter. She could definitely rock the Thing (no pun intended). Invisible Woman is a different story, however. She's become FAR too powerful over the years.

yes but im sure tht if wally and Shayera worked together they cud take them down easily..

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Rules-

Each team will have complete knowledge about the opposing team's powers and abilities.

Flash knows about the forcefield. And Sue's abilities. Pure and simple.

Yes, so who to attack really? The Hulk whose increases his strength and achieve strength beyond Class 100 with his anger?

Human Torch who can go nova and take out MM?

Sue who can turn invisible and create force bubbles and force fields?

Doom who has a force field and project energy blast?

Funny how Flash know who to take out first huh when there's so many choices to chose from.

He just vibrates through Doom's shield like that?

Thing and Hulk proctect Torch and Sue (also it never states where everyone is standing. Thing and Hulk could be or not be standing in the front of their team)

Doom, Sue, and Torch take to the air, the FF might just take this.

It goes two ways; Torch knows of MM's fire weak and will come straight after him. MM is going to have his hands full. If Doom decides to light up the ground, MM might be in serious trouble.

Sue turns her entire team invisible and Flash is going to be in a lot of trouble.

Invisible Hulk and Thing Vs. Flash - you tell me how that's going to end up? Also with Doom bombarding energy beams down on Flash, of course he doesn't do this near Hulk and Thing of course.

During the battle, Sue can layout invisible spikes on the ground. Flash running into one of those spikes or Hulk and Thing = SPLAT!!!

JLA wins if they can knock out Torch & Sue off the bat. 7-9/10.

If they don't, FF wins 9-10.

Even Flash and MM can't handle the number and variety of abilities on the FF's side.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Yes, so who to attack really? The Hulk whose increases his strength and achieve strength beyond Class 100 with his anger?

Human Torch who can go nova and take out MM?

Sue who can turn invisible and create force bubbles and force fields?

Doom who has a force field and project energy blast?

Funny how Flash know who to take out first huh when there's so many choices to chose from.

He just vibrates through Doom's shield like that?

Thing and Hulk proctect Torch and Sue (also it never states where everyone is standing. Thing and Hulk could be or not be standing in the front of their team)

Doom, Sue, and Torch take to the air, the FF might just take this.

It goes two ways; Torch knows of MM's fire weak and will come straight after him. MM is going to have his hands full. If Doom decides to light up the ground, MM might be in serious trouble.

Sue turns her entire team invisible and Flash is going to be in a lot of trouble.

Invisible Hulk and Thing Vs. Flash - you tell me how that's going to end up? Also with Doom bombarding energy beams down on Flash, of course he doesn't do this near Hulk and Thing of course.

During the battle, Sue can layout invisible spikes on the ground. Flash running into one of those spikes or Hulk and Thing = SPLAT!!!

JLA wins if they can knock out Torch & Sue off the bat. 7-9/10.

If they don't, FF wins 9-10.

Even Flash and MM can't handle the number and variety of abilities on the FF's side.

Dude, believe me. I'd love to go along with what you said there. I usually always support Marvel in crossover battles...but there's nothing they can do here.

Do you honestly have any idea just how fast Flash is? I'll give you a hint. He could kill all of them before the first one actually dies. I know that sounds confusing, but think about it for a minute. NOT ONE OF THEM can react fast enough to do anything about Flash. Flash alone can easily win this fight. I don't care how much they know about him.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Dude, believe me. I'd love to go along with what you said there. I usually always support Marvel in crossover battles...but there's nothing they can do here.

Do you honestly have any idea just how fast Flash is? I'll give you a hint. He could kill all of them before the first one actually dies. I know that sounds confusing, but think about it for a minute. NOT ONE OF THEM can react fast enough to do anything about Flash. Flash alone can easily win this fight. I don't care how much they know about him.

Yes, Flash could kill Hulk, Thing, and Doom at ooooonce. I didn't believe it.

cheap as it is, only if we're being super cheap, because it would be before they react.
Damn flash is a god on this forum.

any new ideas? i think the flash would do too much damage before anyone else could even react and mm has super speed not as fast as wally but still really fast and wouldnt be too far behind to clean up anyone still standing.

Originally posted by doctorstrongbad
"Beating down the hulk" ? You know when you make him angry he gets stronger right?

Okay both team have prep time so they know to watch out for the other's tricks like the flash trying to run over everybody. The marvel team has 3 genius level people ... Bruce banner (smart) Mr. Fantastic (smarter) and Doctor doom (smartest). With prep time they could think up a great plan.

They can't prep against the Speedforce...they couldn't even complete a coherent thought before Flash would be all over them.

Meh. Either Flash or MM could solo. I know people are going to disagree with MM solo'ing, and its because he is underrated. Replace him with Superman and you'd all say he'd win.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/12.jpg?t=1250070735



As for Flash taking this? Its not even really a question.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/evucity.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/profzomgem2.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/profzomgem3.jpg