darth vader

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Tormentor_2004
When Vader puts on his suit, doesnt he get weaker? The suit makes him slower, doesnt it? Even I can move in his costume not that i have. How can he defeat Jedi Masters with the suit on?

Mist
not really a suit as much as part of him....look at rotj when he gets his hand cut off....his arm IS part of the suit. really....the only part of a suit is his helmet....

LanİeWindu™
This thread should be called...

Wardrobe Malfunction? laughing out loud

Mist
laughing

vader's nipple slip

LanİeWindu™
laughing

Darth Subjekt
I think alot of what we saw in the prequels is due in part to the immobility of David Prowse, not suited Vader. im sure the suit doesnt help, but i think it was more David.

Mist
does he have a mechanical nipple? laughing

Mist
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I think alot of what we saw in the prequels is due in part to the immobility of David Prowse, not suited Vader. im sure the suit doesnt help, but i think it was more David.

yeah, from a behind the scenes view, theres not a lot you can do with all that plastic on....

but from the 'real' star wars point of view, he would be pretty mobile.

robakin
lucas does say in the commentary vader is weaker than anakin, which is why palps wants luke as he will become what anakin should of.

macgeek2005
Have you ever noticed how big Vaders helmet is? That's why in Episode I he had to choose an actor with a bobblehead like Jake Loyd (w/e). Have you noticed how extremely large anakins head is in episode I. and then in episode VI, you see him next to luke, and his helmet is like twice the size of lukes head. Makes Sense.

Lord Banshee
Lol! A waterhead happy

Red Superfly
I don't really like the fact that Lucas backpeddled on Vader, saying he was less powerful than Anakin. I just thought that was a weak excuse to make up for the fact the special effects and choerography got better as the Star Wars saga continued, and the fact Prowse wasn't the most athletic of actors, and technology improved.

Also, the type of sword fighting in ANH was based off of simple two handed duelling sword fights. Only by ESB did they bother with other types and speed it up a bit.

I mean, Lucas keeps saying the ANH fight was between a cripple and an old man, and thats why they appear slow. That's so lame. He's basically backtracking on his films and saying those two characters are, well, crap. For someone to make excuses over the lack of special effects or funding, which is detrimental to the story and the characters shows how little Lucas cares about characterisation over visuals. It just bugs me a little that he can't stick his guns and has to basically re-write a story based on the technology.

Cripple my ass.

Besides, I always though Vader was so cool because he DIDN'T do backflips. He just stood there, ominously, like an immovable object. I don't think he would have been half as cool if he did backflips and kung fu action poses. I love it when he fights Luke with one hand on Bespin, just so powerful and bad ass.
We will never really know if he was actually "crippled" you see, because there's no Jedi to actually compare him to. Luke doesn't count. He was in training, and suddenly beat Vader through Vaders complacence and surprise. I mean, maybe the fact Vader doesn't move a lot is BECAUSE he's brimming over with the force, he doesn't need to move much. It's open to interpretation but that's my take on it.

I mean, he deflects Hans laser fire with the force (it is the force, it doesn't hit his hand) in ESB- even Mace Windu needed his saber for that.

Darth Subjekt
AMEN BROTHER!!! Its like how they say, I don't move unless provoked....well, no one provoked him that much. If someone pisses you off and you can kill them from another part of the ship, why the hell would you walk all the over to where they are just to get in a fist fight or chop him down with a lightsaber? Nah F that, you get him an ya screen and yoke his bittch ass out. Im with you man, its crap that he's taking this direction, just cause DP was a big uncoordinated...."thing" who couldnt move well.

robakin
like your view on it red this makes a lot of sense.

mephistodesigns
he said in some interview, i think on star wars.com, somewhere around when he explained the clones in OT being from different sources, or maybe in that Empire of Dreams documentary, he said that he sees Anakin being like twenty percent (number he obviously pulled out of nowhere to make a point) MORE powerful than the Emperor, but then, because of the fight and the injuries sustained, he lost a lot of natural tissue and thus, midichlorians, which weakened his connection to the force and so his power then is about twenty percent LESS than the Emperor, which is why he needed Luke's help to take the Empreror on.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Red Superfly
I don't really like the fact that Lucas backpeddled on Vader, saying he was less powerful than Anakin. I just thought that was a weak excuse to make up for the fact the special effects and choerography got better as the Star Wars saga continued, and the fact Prowse wasn't the most athletic of actors, and technology improved.

Also, the type of sword fighting in ANH was based off of simple two handed duelling sword fights. Only by ESB did they bother with other types and speed it up a bit.

I mean, Lucas keeps saying the ANH fight was between a cripple and an old man, and thats why they appear slow. That's so lame. He's basically backtracking on his films and saying those two characters are, well, crap. For someone to make excuses over the lack of special effects or funding, which is detrimental to the story and the characters shows how little Lucas cares about characterisation over visuals. It just bugs me a little that he can't stick his guns and has to basically re-write a story based on the technology.

Cripple my ass.

Besides, I always though Vader was so cool because he DIDN'T do backflips. He just stood there, ominously, like an immovable object. I don't think he would have been half as cool if he did backflips and kung fu action poses. I love it when he fights Luke with one hand on Bespin, just so powerful and bad ass.
We will never really know if he was actually "crippled" you see, because there's no Jedi to actually compare him to. Luke doesn't count. He was in training, and suddenly beat Vader through Vaders complacence and surprise. I mean, maybe the fact Vader doesn't move a lot is BECAUSE he's brimming over with the force, he doesn't need to move much. It's open to interpretation but that's my take on it.

I mean, he deflects Hans laser fire with the force (it is the force, it doesn't hit his hand) in ESB- even Mace Windu needed his saber for that.

I totally agree. I really wish they'd (instead of all these stupid changes to the OT) actually go in and insert digital fighters (like they basically do for Dooku and Palpatine) into the Obi-wan Vader fight in ANH so that they at least make the fight look as good as ESB or ROTJ. Not a ridiculous amount but C'MON!! After we watch the 13 minute duel between these two heavy hitters, all we see them do in ANH is fight like a couple 4 year olds with their mommy's broom sticks? that's weak! Vader HATES Obi-wan, I want to see him at least TRY to kick his ass! not just slap each other gently a couple times.

((The_Anomaly))
i agree digital remakes of the OT are in order for sure, the PT fights are so much better that it seems very inconsistant.

Sith Master X
Well, you would think that getting horribly burnt, then turning half maching would make you a bit more weaker than you previously were. erm

That's just my take on it.

Velcro_Boy
i agree with Red. why cant they just admit that the choriography and stunts werent as good in the old days. instead he makes the excuse that Luke wasnt trained as good as jedi in the PT. i guess that makes sense but still.

Dart Saber
Originally posted by Mist
does he have a mechanical nipple? laughing

Yeah, and how does Vader take a bath?
I bet he stinks too much.
Perhaps he and Palps are bathing together eek!

((The_Anomaly))
........

i have no comment for that......thats just........huh

Red Superfly
I'm with you guys on the digital remakes of the OT, but to be honest - Lucas should have never made it this way in the first place.

Instead of making his Original Trilogy look inferior, he should have tried to make the PT as close and as consistent to the OT as possible. Instead, the PT has superpowerred Jedi who do things that seem like yet another vehicle for Lucas to peddle his CGI with.

The OT is his basis, and any good artist knows that consistency is key. Lucas overlooked consistency in favour of visual splendour. How ironic he was the one to coin the phrase "weak minded fool".

I mean, Lucas has made the excuse that the PT is when the Jedi are in their heyday - so thats why they are almost like superheroes. I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on this one.

And who thought that "upgrading" the Jedi repertoire for the PT was a good idea anyway? It defies all logic to do that. Lucas wrote the rules in ANH, bent them for ESB and ROTJ, and then threw them out of the window with the PT.

The Original Trilogy is arguably, and most widely acknowledged as the greatest series of movies ever made. It didn't need superpowerred Jedi. So why does it now? Since when would any true Star Wars fan consider visual effects and "Uber Jedi" to be paramount? It only adds to the inconsistency.

I say leave the OT as it is. That's how it has always been.

It should be the PT's visuals and Jedi Superheroes that should be cut and taken down a peg or two.

((The_Anomaly))
you have to remember that lucas diddent have the budget to do expensive fight scenes in the OT...he did the best he could, espicially in ANH, i mean he made that outta like nothing. but i am for redoing the OT fights with a bit of CG, not a complete overhall but like add some new stuff so that the fights dont look completly retarted

Dart Saber
No, really, now i'm serious.
How does vader take a bath, i always wondered that?
He still has human parts that stink if you don't take care of them, torso, parts of arms, and parts of legs...

mephistodesigns
I don't think all the fights in the OT need work, just Obi-wan vs Vader in ANH. Not just for us, but for future generations who see them in order and watch this bad ass slug fest in ROTS, only to get to ANH with expectations of a rematch, and then see them barely hitting each other. And audiences then will just look and say, well sure, maybe Vader's less powerful than before, but what's Obi's excuse. We just watched Dooku and Palpatine whoop ass in the PT, so why shouldn't Obi be a bit faster? They don't need to take away the shots that are there, he just needs to add a couple new ones with two or three good moves, use the existing footage to bridge these moves, and the fight will look better.

The fight in ESB should NOT be touched, because, and I think this is clear now in its current form, that Vader is toying with Luke because he wants to turn him. That one handed fighting makes it obvious. That fight is almost more of a spiritual one than a literal one. And once Vader's good and pissed, he does whoop the crap outta Luke. So we know he could kill him easily if he wanted to. So no edits there.

And ROTJ, the fights fine, just a little short, only thing they should add, is Vader's saber flying into his grasp after he throws it at Luke, its implied, he walks down those stairs sans saber, reaches the bottom and you can hear it ignite. But thats minor and doesn't NEED to be done. As for Luke's rushing of Vader at the end, his moves imply an immense amount of anger and rash thinking, as they should, his friends have been threatened. So no edits need be in ROTJ either.

They just need the big Anakin/Kenobi re-match to look more emotional. It was fine when we didn't know how deep their wounds ran, but now that we do, I want to see the hate, the fire, I want Vader to want some pay back. His dialogue is so bad ass, why not his moves? It would be cool if it was implied through their actions a little more that Obi-wan just isn't walking away from this BEFORE he literally can't. It would be more gut wrentching to watch honestly. Its just too sterile right now. I know this may seem like nit picking to some, but Lucas opened the door for editing with his SE and now with the PT, he's created a need for FURTHER edits.

mephistodesigns
Red Superfly--- I SO TOTALLY agree! Let me just say, I've done my share of rationalizing and defending the prequels for others, the clean to dirty universe makes sense to me. The ships becoming more industrial, that all works for me. But the over all consistency is VERY hard to defend because of the very things you pointed out. The Jedi being acrobatic is ok, the jedi being able to move anything with the force is ok, but they really could have toned down the fights a little more, made them look like they were draining to the characters a bit more, Yoda sighs at the end of his fight, even little things like that would show that the fight is hard. I realize that these fights are more "fight hard and fast or die" but they still could have looked more like the OT fights if they'd just been shot a bit differently.

lil bitchiness

LanİeWindu™
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well I think its rather fashinable...but he so has to get rid of the cheesy front buttons, thats SO OT!

I concur, what was he thinking? It's like Darth Vader wanted to go retro, but completely failed and ended up in fashion hell. diva

Jedi Styles
People are looking at this the entirely wrong way....


You have incredible fight scenese in Episodes 1, 2 and 3.... Think of it... In episode 4, 5 and 6... There are only 3 Jedis.. and shit two of them die and one is trying to train still????? Think... Remember that Obi-Wan in 4 was trying to buy time so the others can get away and he sacraficed himself... Man, we didn't need a suber duel for that... Did we?

Also remember, Lucas didnt' have the technology nor the resources back in the 70's and 80's as he does now. This guy took over 30 years to make over a BILLION dollars... So who cares how me made the movie... He's doing something to continue the legacy of Star Wars...

As far as the Light Saber battes between the OT and PT???? I just say Differnt times.... So who really cares, let's really enjoy the movies for what they are and how the story all comes together.. That's all I care about.

mephistodesigns
well...no offense...but duh. that's why we (some of us) beleive NOW they should go in and spruce up the fight in ANH. I mean think about it, Vader HATES Kenobi after what happened in III. Their rematch needs a bit more fire in it, more emotion, more anger. YES Kenobi is stalling, but that's all the MORE reason he needs to be furiously fighting for his life as long as he needs to. In its current form, there's no danger, its looks too controled.

But the other fights with Luke, we've already said its because he's in training and Vader is toying with him. No complaints there.

Mist
im with jedi styles on this one.....

vader IS trying to kick obis ass....but obi is just holding him off. you cant expect an old man and a machine to start flipping and backflipping and dancing all over the place.

we get all the saber duels we want in the PT. the OT makes more sense with the fighting since theres no jedi and no proper training anymore. its not like vader can practise his sword fighting since hes had no one to fight against for years. same as obi.

remaking it would make it look WORSE, not better. obi doesnt NEED to face off vader in another massive duel coz he knows this is it, hes gonna be one with the force.

personally, i find vader much more of an opposing character because he DOESNT fight like PT jedi. he can just wave his hand and kill stuff.

my thoughts......concluded.

mephistodesigns
I can't expect an old man to start flipping huh? I seem to remember Dooku, who was older than Ben Kenobi, flipping into the fight with Yoda, jumping over lightsaber blades. Then Yoda does his flips even though he normally walks with a cain. Then Palpatine LEAPS OVER A FREAKIN' DESK!!!! Why yousa thinkin' old men can't flip? And I agree Mist, Obi and Vader don't need ANOTHER 13 minutes, but the fight does need to look better than what I used to do in my backyard in my younger days!!! Its just gonna look REALLY bad. We know all the rationalizations, but the films need to be realtively self explanatory for future generations (like most films). Instead he's created this TERRIBLE inconsistency, one says old men can fight like they're 20, the other says oh, no now they can't. It just looks bad. And I don't really want Vader flipping, or Obi-wan for that matter, they just need smoother, more powerful looking strikes with their sabers. right now they look like they're moving 2 miles per hour with those strikes. i want them to crackle, lock sabers, almost hit each other. Not stay a careful distance away because they don't want to put out an eye. Sorry, it just looks like crap. And since he insists on changing things for consistency's sake, he needs to fix this, cuz right now, its DAMN inconsistent.

Mist
email supershadow, tell him your thoughts and he'll pass them on to the right people stick out tongue

dooku and yoda - thats why he shouldnt have done it. sure, it looks cool, but then 20yrs down the track, yoda can hardly put his blanket on properly, let alone bust out some moves.

i need to watch them fight again in ANH, coz i havent watched for ages...

Imaginary
I was watching ANH last night, and I agree, it needs to be more consistent.

Mist
you and your pirated copy!

you are not worthy!

mephistodesigns
oh see, that's why. Go watch them in order and you'll just feel empty when you watch the ANH fight. They stay an obviously safe distance away from each other, they don't really try to hurt one another. It kinda looks like when boxers get to that stage where they look like they're hugging, but barely still hitting each other. I get that Obi's just toying with him, thats fine, but Vader can't look like he's playing along because he has to look like he really wants to kill him. Now I'm not jsut saying this because of the PT either, I can't believe they ever let that fight in as it was filmed. The ESB and ROTJ duels look WAAAAAY better, and I think they still hold up to the PT. But ANH, wow. Its just a weak fight. They need to leave the current shots intact, CGI a hooded Obi-wan (they already have some) and a Vader and put some extra hits in between so it at least looks like Vader is trying. The only hit where it looks like he's trying is when he "kills" him (which I'm still not clear on whether he did or not). Just a couple shots, nothing to nuts, to make it look like its a FIGHT. Even Lucas, who wrote it, who understands the emotion better than anyone supposedly, should grasp that Vader wants some payback, he's still one powerful mofo, even if he can't flip, he can still fence like Dooku but better, so have him stand their menacingly, but have him swing with purpose while he does it.

Mist
get hayden to fight a bit while he has the suit. and get ewan to be obiwan (not for close up facial shots though of coursewink )

oh well.....we can all still look forward to ep 7,8 and 9........big grin

mephistodesigns
that's my idea exactly!! big grin

and oh god, don't get me started....you read that other bunch of posts of mine in the spielbug thread didn't you? laughing out loud

Mist
yeah laughing

mephistodesigns
laughing It just gets on my nerves when misinterpretations get pushed out as facts you know? Like when a mate starts singing some song, busts out the wrong lyric, but is like, "No man, i'm sure that's what I heard". And they just can't stop singing it that way. Man... y'know? laughing out loud

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
that's my idea exactly!! big grin

and oh god, don't get me started....you read that other bunch of posts of mine in the spielbug thread didn't you? laughing out loud

Jeez, look how I spelled Speilberg!!!! laughing

Imaginary
Originally posted by Mist
you and your pirated copy!

you are not worthy!

Not pirated, taped stick out tongue

mephistodesigns
Now that's old skool!!!!

Mist
not worthy not worthy not worthy!!

*runs away crying*

Forcewielder
The reason why the ANH fight looks pathetic compared to the other duels is because by that time, Obi-wan is out of shape and hasn't trained for 20 years, unlike both Dooku and Yoda. He can't perfect his skills without triggering a disturbance in the Force which would alert both Vader and the Emperor of his presence.

As for Vader, both his arms and his lower torso are now cybernetic and it's impossible for him to be as agile as he was when his organic body was intact without worring about detaching what's left of it from his robotic limbs which is why both Vader and Obi-wan fight the way they do.

Batman316
that plus is Yoda is cgi as is most of the Dooku fighting

atheist
As for Vader, both his arms and his lower torso are now cybernetic and it's impossible for him to be as agile as he was when his organic body was intact without worring about detaching what's left of it from his robotic limbs which is why both Vader and Obi-wan fight the way they do.

Forcewielder this doesnt make any sense. Lucas is going to have Grievous doing all kinds of crazy, fast paced stuff and he is a robot. There is no reason why Vader couldnt fight flashy or fast.

What it really boils down to is that Lucas didnt have the technology available for it when the OT was made. Now that the PT looks very polished and the fights are good he is trying to convince everyone that Vader is crap compared to Anakin. Actually if you watch the OT without the PT you would get the impression that Vader is better than Anakin. Obi - Wan beat Anakin because eventhough Anakin joined the darkside and got new powers he was still a young jedi knight and inexperienced compared to kenobi. Anakin wasnt the mega powerful chosen one crap that he is now. So when Vader says in ANH that when I left you I was but the learner and now I am the master he really means it. At this point Vader is a Jedi Master and Kenobi doesnt stand a chance.

mephistodesigns
Weak dude. Its still totally weak. Yoda and the others could move when there was no physical explanation BECAUSE they used the FORCE to assist them in their moves, like when Luke does a front flip in ESB and a back flip onto that catwalk in ROTJ. Vader doesn't have to do flips, but he does need to move a bit faster than he currently does, you know why? another inconsistancy: General Grievous has established that droid parts fight as fast if not faster than organic parts. And that thing about Obi-wan not training is just ridiculous. Maybe his moves wouldn't be as clean as they once were, but they'd certainly be more adept than they currently appear. Firstly because he has the force, secondly because of muscle memory, after a life time of fighting, his muscles would still be able to move through old moves because of muscle memory. So basically, no amount of rationalization will ever excuse that terrible fight. Vader fights better in ESB and ROTJ and he's only toying with Luke. Like in ESB, when he comes down at Luke in that hallway and proceeds to beat him to the floor. His moves look stiff, as they should, but he's still pretty damn fast. So if he's just toying with Luke, why doesn't he fight HARDER against Obi-wan? He ain't toyin' with him, he wants REVENGE!!!!

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by atheist
So when Vader says in ANH that when I left you I was but the learner and now I am the master he really means it. At this point Vader is a Jedi Master and Kenobi doesnt stand a chance.

EXACTLY! Doesn't that sound like: "ready for some payback BEEETOCH?!" I want to feel that S#$%!!!! I want a REAL fight, no BS rationalizing. Vader can fight, ala Greivous, Obi's old but still spent 33 years with the Jedi in training/actual combat. He's still gonna be one bad mother. I agree, it shouldn't be all Yoda vs Dooku, but it should still be a real fight!

astrofan428
I dont like Lucas using a weak Vader excuse as a way to explain the poor fighting in the OT. But I do like it as an excuse as to why he cant overthrow his master.

DenKi
God, the fighting in 4,5 and 6 Sucks sooo bad, its slow and it looks like took 5 mins to go over it all...

J-Unit
how does vader Pee? Damn...Hard It Is

Darth_Duffy
Originally posted by DenKi
God, the fighting in 4,5 and 6 Sucks sooo bad, its slow and it looks like took 5 mins to go over it all...

it was the 70's for cryin out loud

SithSpy
forget all this stuff about Darth Vader, how powerful do you think Darth Tater is?

mephistodesigns
don't under estimate the dark spud of the force!!! laughing

SithSpy
LMAO

Darth_Nefarus
Okay, robo Vader doesn't necessarily have the power or agility of Anakin, but think about it.

If Grievous can move at Jedi speed without the force, it's possible that Vader (with the force) could have mechanical limbs like Grievous' They would make him physically stronger, and he could react at almost the same speed.

Now he doesn't twirl around much, and get into the dance of the fight like the other Jedi do, because he's mastered himself to the point where he moves only when he must.

Also, he's much physically stronger and tougher due to the mechanical enhancements. Luke clearly hits him with a saber in ESB, and it doesn't break through, it just pisses Vader off.

And yes, Vader seemed slow in the OT because that suit is bulky and Lucas didn't have the money or resources to make the much superior fights of the PT.

SithSpy
bottom line is we will never really know, b/c we dont see him in action untill ANH and by then he is so intune with the force he doesn't need to move fast, thats one main point of a REAL fight is to inflict as much damage excerting the least amount of energy..he fights Luke with one hand most of the time in ESB

Forcewielder
Originally posted by atheist
Forcewielder this doesnt make any sense. Lucas is going to have Grievous doing all kinds of crazy, fast paced stuff and he is a robot. There is no reason why Vader couldnt fight flashy or fast.

Grievous isn't 50% man/50% machine like Vader is, he's mostly a machine with a brain and spinal columm(like Kane the Robo-monster from Robocop 2) which is why he can perform the crazy, fast paced stuff while Vader cannot.

mephistodesigns
laughing jesus, how can you say that with a straight face??? rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud

Red Superfly
This rationalising BS is awful.

Also Denki, the fights may look primitive in this day and age, but at least they look like they are fighting, rather than dancing.

I have given my reasons, and I think I'm right. Trying to work the story around the dated technology is, especially years after it has been accepted, sloppy, no matter how you look at it.

If Lucas just attempted to make the PT consistent with the OT, we wouldn't even have this problem.

How the hell Lucas thought he'd get away with backflipping, spinning, dancing, super-jumping almost flying Jedi in the PT is beyond me. Consistency is key, and Lucas threw that out of the window in favour of having flashier fights teetering on Matrix-like stupidity.

Just because he has the means to accomplish what he WANTS, doesn't mean he SHOULD.

Lucas could do with taking some his own medicine.

johnzie34
i love star wars
if i could be any star wars character, i would be Luke Skywalker
LUKE SKYWaLKEr, I AM YOUR FATHER (Thats Darth Vader, anakin)


ii wish star wars wasnt in a glaaxy far far away but on earth that would be COOL.


Star wars is cool i just wanted to say so, if you disagree post. ill kill you, cause star wars rocks. f you guys who hate star wars


ps
star trek sucks

SithSpy
Well that was way outta left field for this thread but Welcolme to the boards nonetheless, have fun!

yo_yoda
Originally posted by Red Superfly
This rationalising BS is awful.

Also Denki, the fights may look primitive in this day and age, but at least they look like they are fighting, rather than dancing.

I have given my reasons, and I think I'm right. Trying to work the story around the dated technology is, especially years after it has been accepted, sloppy, no matter how you look at it.

If Lucas just attempted to make the PT consistent with the OT, we wouldn't even have this problem.

How the hell Lucas thought he'd get away with backflipping, spinning, dancing, super-jumping almost flying Jedi in the PT is beyond me. Consistency is key, and Lucas threw that out of the window in favour of having flashier fights teetering on Matrix-like stupidity.

Just because he has the means to accomplish what he WANTS, doesn't mean he SHOULD.

Lucas could do with taking some his own medicine.




i thought vader's fighting style was different than how he fought in the PT, but i thought it was due to his age being old in the OT.
i aslo noticed that lukes fighting style looked to unorthadox; it looked like anyone can pick up a lightsaber and wave it around the way luke did in the OT fighting scenes, but i realized that luke learned the way of the jedi late in his age for trainning. Normally, a swordsman would have a fighting style that looks graceful like the jedis in the PT; i think it looked that way because of the sabertrainning being tought at an early age rather than lukes trainning which was done at an older age. if what i think is true, then that is the reason GL did the PT fighting scenes different than the OT fighting scenes.

vader519
The reason Lucas has these fast paced fights is befre he is showing us the glory days of the jedi. When Luke learned to fight, nobody taught him to duel. He did it by his self. I like the flashy fights because theya re fast paced and amazing.

yo_yoda
Originally posted by vader519
The reason Lucas has these fast paced fights is befre he is showing us the glory days of the jedi. When Luke learned to fight, nobody taught him to duel. He did it by his self. I like the flashy fights because theya re fast paced and amazing.




well put... i agree... i thought the same thing too. big grin

SithSpy
very true....very true

Red Superfly
Originally posted by johnzie34
i love star wars
if i could be any star wars character, i would be Luke Skywalker
LUKE SKYWaLKEr, I AM YOUR FATHER (Thats Darth Vader, anakin)


ii wish star wars wasnt in a glaaxy far far away but on earth that would be COOL.


Star wars is cool i just wanted to say so, if you disagree post. ill kill you, cause star wars rocks. f you guys who hate star wars


ps
star trek sucks

Oh, dear GOD.

SithSpy
i wasnt gonna say it red......

Red Superfly
I'm not sure it's even human. Could be someones dog bashing random keys. Could be an alien lifeform trying to communicate.

Could be an Ewok, it is using a very primitive form of dialect........

SithSpy
i agree, maybe it shall make me a god and I can rule the universe YEAH!!

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by vader519
The reason Lucas has these fast paced fights is befre he is showing us the glory days of the jedi. When Luke learned to fight, nobody taught him to duel. He did it by his self. I like the flashy fights because theya re fast paced and amazing.

Nobody's really knocking that explanation. Luke is inexperienced, he's had a couple month's of training. 'Course hes gonna be unskilled. I agree with Superfly, its too bad he created this situation in the first place, but now that he has, he has to update Obi and Vader's fight, because old or not, they KNOW how to fight. And Dooku moved a bit so they can too, no flipping though, just at least look like you're fighting. But the Luke/Vader fights don't NEED rationalizing, Luke's inexperienced, and Vader isn't TRYING to kill him, he's trying to TURN him. ANH is the only one that needs an update since it, unfortunately, as Super has pointed out, just doesn't make sense anymore, and no rationalizing THAT one fight can excuse "sloppy" film making. (good term there Super, that sums it up perfectly).

Red Superfly
Why thankyou.

To be fair, I can accept some rationalising.

Ep IV: Vader is easily walking circles around Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan knows this, as does Vader "Your powers are weak old man". Obi-Wan gives up before we even see a fight actually start. There was never any need for Lucas to come up with "its between a cripple and an old man", the on screen explanation was enough.

Ep. V: Vader is again, toying with his opponent. He doesn't need to do anything special.

Ep VI: Luke gets to Vader as much as Vader gets to Luke. When Vader is surprised by Luke and attacked, he has trouble fighting back. It shows how confused Vader is - and to be honest, Vader wanted Luke to beat the crap out of him anyway, so either explanation will do here

I mean, there's no need to UPDATE any of them. The story makes it clear about what is going on. The charm about the original trilogy is that the opponents never face off just for the hell of it, and theres a damn good reason for them to pull out their sabers and start a duel.

I was merely suggesting Lucas recognised or at least acknowledged his original films, instead of making lame excuses after he breaks the inconsistency. If he was smart, he would realise there was no need to make any excuses at all. But he doesn't care about consistency, and this is proof. He wants whatever reason he can lay his hands on to have his new Jedi flipping and twirling in flashy CGI, looking absolutely out of key with the Star Wars that was established over twenty years ago.

mephistodesigns
Still, you wouldn't want the fight in ANH to at least look a little intense? It doesn't have any tension as it currently stands, not like we need, especially now that we KNOW their back grounds. Vader does want to toy with Kenobi, show off a bit before he kills him, but we need to see it, we need some angry moves to go with the angry dialogue, not this pansy barely hitting with enough force (the physical property, not the other one) to move an empty carton of milk.

Mist
Originally posted by johnzie34

LUKE SKYWaLKEr, I AM YOUR FATHER (Thats Darth Vader, anakin)


wtf was that post about?

he doesnt say skywalker, so stick out tongue shows how much you love your star wars.

AND THANKS FOR RUINING THE SURPRISE!















stick out tongue

Red Superfly
Although I think it would be a good idea, to do up the Kenobi-Vader fight, I'd still be a bit annoyed at Lucas for making it come to that.

Lucas would have made the Trilogy so inconsistent that he would have to go back and re-re-edit the OT yet again. How many more fans would he piss off doing that? Not only that, but he'd be messing with a risky scene. Very dodgy.

Ever heard of the phrase "polishing a diamond into dust"? Somehow I don't think Lucas has.

And for me personally, if Lucas has to re-edit ANH's duel, it will be simply telling everyone he has slightly failed at creating a trilogy that compliments the originals. I mean his plan is to have them all as one saga 1-6. It just doesn't fit. Instead of complimenting the originals, they are re-writing them. I hope it doesn't come to re-editting the OT, what a shame that would be. I don't think any good film has deserved to be re-editted, cut and chewed up, especially a film as widely appreciated as Star Wars.

Lucas could have so easily avoided this mistake if he didn't screw around with visual effects and characters like a kid in a sweet shop.

All he had to do was look at the originals, and what looked at what worked for them. Maybe even (shock!) ask the odd fan, rather than the slobbering fanboys and base a major character (Jango Fett for instance) on nothing more than media lust and hype.

It's a sad state of affairs when looking at chopping up the originals is the only way the saga could work. It could have been avoided so easily.

Mist
blah, just leave it how it is.

you want a good story, watch OT.
you want good action, watch PT.

Red Superfly
Yep exactly.

I still watch the PT, don't get me wrong, it has it's moments where you can see the old Star Wars flame, if only fleetingly, before it gets smothered with CGI or one of Jar Jars "hilarious" antics.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Mist
wtf was that post about?

he doesnt say skywalker, so stick out tongue shows how much you love your star wars.


he doesn't say Luke either, he says "No, I am your father". Shows how much you BOTH know star wars! wink laughing its the answer to the statement, "he told me enough, he told me you killed him".

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Red Superfly
Ever heard of the phrase "polishing a diamond into dust"? Somehow I don't think Lucas has.


Wow, that was good! I actually like a lot of the new effects, that doesn't bother me, its a different story, its okay if it looks a bit different. But certain things, things that run into the OT, like jedi rules for example, definietly should have been more closely linked to the OT.

Mist
i havent watched my dvd for a long long time.....and just for that, im gonna watch it now to check laughing

Mist
sh!t, he does too laughing

hey, at least i dont claim to be like an uber fan and then get it wrong wink

mephistodesigns
roll eyes (sarcastic)



wink laughing

mephistodesigns
the only reason i even bothered to point that out is because of my fiancee's friggin' family. They're always asking me retarded questions about star wars and how much I spend on toys, you know, the normal crap we nerds have to suffer from the muggle population. And they always say "Luke, I am your father!" and finally, the other day at the birthday party they threw for me (which they've only started doing because my future brother in law's new wife has the same b-day as me, and they like her roll eyes (sarcastic) ). So I finally went "All right! Look! Its not "LUKE", its "NO I am your father" because he's responding to a false statement Luke makes! He never says Luke in that line!" And they're all, 'Oh, well I only saw the first one. What do they call it now? It was just plain Star Wars when I saw it.' And I just rolled my eyes and quitely cursed them in my head. big grin So that's how my birthday went...and yes, I would like some cheese with thiis whine Mist, why do you ask? wink stick out tongue

Mist
laughing

i thought he said luke in that line, but its the line before it or something.....hell i cant remember and i watched it like a few hours ago....whatever.

bah! who gives anyway...anyone who argues over stupid lines from a movie needs to get out more......(i know i dowink )

mephistodesigns
Those are not STUPID LINES!!! Those lines mean something to some of us. They've changed our lives! My god man, have you no sense at all?









wink laughing

mephistodesigns
but to clarify, he does say "Luke" earlier, he says "Luke, you do not yet realise your importance...." geek

jango fatt
BTW ya can shoot Dart vader in many places where he doesn't get hurt.

mephistodesigns
WTF?! wacko whistle

jango fatt
Time-out, man!

mephistodesigns
what did that other post even mean?

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