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Juggernaut


vs.



Wonderwomen

Originally posted by the Darkone
Juggernaut


vs.



Wonderwomen

since when is a superhero plural

How many Wonderwomen? Let's keep it fair.

this has been done b4 hasnt it?

jugs has been made a fool in the crossover.

I think he has beat WW.

not easy but he will get the job done.

This ones been done before juggernaut wins

Infact WW won this battle quite easily she pulled his helmut off then KO-ed him.

How would Juggernaut win. She's too fast. He can't land a single hit. She would be like white on rice on him. The likes of Captain America and the original Angel had no problem dodging him so....

WW wins...eventually.

Jugs is unstoppable...Wonder Woman though can match speed and strengh with the best of 'em..the way i see it...she has the advantage of flight...she'll pick up Jugs fly him over to the deepest spot in the ocean..drops the sucker...and makes it home just in time for tea and biscuits...

"How would Juggernaut win. She's too fast. He can't land a single hit"

On the other hand, if this is a juggernaut well written like classic Marvel, her punches arent going to do alot. With his force field on, even Thor couldnt hurt him.

And Wonder Woman both in strenght and powers is sligthy below him.

Classic Juggernaut either pulls a win or a stalemate. He wont lose.

Originally posted by RogerRamjet
Jugs is unstoppable...Wonder Woman though can match speed and strengh with the best of 'em..the way i see it...she has the advantage of flight...she'll pick up Jugs fly him over to the deepest spot in the ocean..drops the sucker...and makes it home just in time for tea and biscuits...

Unstoppable...yet got his ass handed to him by five mutant teenagers.

The above scenario is plausible enough.

Originally posted by olympian
"How would Juggernaut win. She's too fast. He can't land a single hit"

On the other hand, if this is a juggernaut well written like classic Marvel, her punches arent going to do alot. With his force field on, even Thor couldnt hurt him.

And Wonder Woman both in strenght and powers is sligthy below him.

Classic Juggernaut either pulls a win or a stalemate. He wont lose.

Sorry for double post:

This is one of the few battles where Diana's skills and powers are rendered rather ineffective. She can knock him all she wants. It wouldn't do much except cause massive worldwide property damage. Thus she only has three options:

1) Use the Godwave
2) Hog-tie Juggernaut with the lasso
3) Knock off his helmet and have the Invisible Plane mind**** him.

HOWEVER Diana isn't gonna "lose" here folks. He may land a blow or two. But that's it. He's WAYYYYY to slow for Wondie. So the odds of Juggernaut knocking out Diana is nil.

This either ends in a draw (if Diana cannot somehow immobolize him or knock him out thus ending the battle since Juggs wouldn't be able to land a hand on her) or a win for Diana.

Five mutant teenagers and theyr teacher who happens to be the most powerful telepath in the world.

Originally posted by olympian
Five mutant teenagers and theyr teacher who happens to be the most powerful telepath in the world.

A CRIPPLED teacher and Five teenagers. For god's sake all he had to do was WALK through them.

If they can win, so can WW.

"1) Use the Godwave
2) Hog-tie Juggernaut with the lasso
3) Knock off his helmet and have the Invisible Plane mind**** him."

While using the Godwave might work, remember that a Godblast didnt do anything to him. Something to take into consideration.

The lasso its another thing that would probably work.

The last one i dont agree at all. Juggernaut doesnt get weaker or less durable without his helmet. Just vulnerable to tp attacks. The force field however will still be on if he desires. It doesnt depend on the helmet.

The only time Thor went at him and punched Jugs, was the one time the writter made him " forget about the force field ". Even with that, he wasent beaten. We are assuming both characters are written at theyr best.

Diana can summon the Godwave without being sure it will work. Or she can play safe and use the lasso. In those conditions she can take it.

Either way, if she plays physical, even she is alot faster, wont do any good.
- - -

"A CRIPPLED teacher and Five teenagers. For god's sake all he had to do was WALK through them."

A teacher that, crippled or not has the right powerset to deal with the opponent.

In Wonder Woman`s case, even she takes the helmet off, what is she going to do? She doesnt have the power to eliminate the threat. Xavier does.

Originally posted by olympian

While using the Godwave might work, remember that a Godblast didnt do anything to him. Something to take into consideration

Unfortunately for Juggernaut the Godblast focuses Thor's godly essences into a blast.

The Godwave is the primodial creation for ALL GODs and even the multiverse itself

No contest.

Originally posted by olympian
The lasso its another thing that would probably work.

It would work. Juggernaut is incredibly dim. He's such a boasting ass he would LET it wrap around him just to boost his own ego.

Originally posted by olympian
The last one i dont agree at all. Juggernaut doesnt get weaker or less durable without his helmet. Just vulnerable to tp attacks. The force field however will still be on if he desires. It doesnt depend on the helmet.

The Invisible Plane beat MM in telepathic combat. So......

True removing the helmet wouldn't hurt make him weaker...however it will make him more vulnerable to telepathic attacks. And when WW summons the Invisible Plane Juggs is gonna get a hell of headache.

And don't say WW cannot knock of the helmet. It has happened so many times by lesser characters.


Originally posted by olympian
The only time Thor went at him and punched Jugs, was the one time the writter made him " forget about the force field ". Even with that, he wasent beaten. We are assuming both characters are written at theyr best

In my opinion Thor was not written at his best since despite his vastly superior reflexes and faster than lightspeed flight speed Juggs was still manhandling him.

Diana at her best would evade every single attack and strategize a win.


Originally posted by olympian
Diana can summon the Godwave without being sure it will work.

Godblast is NOT equal to Godwave. Not even close. The Godblast channels Thor's magical essences. The Godwave is the primodial creation-jumpstarting power.


Originally posted by olympian
Or she can play safe and use the lasso. In those conditions she can take it.

Yep.

Originally posted by olympian
Either way, if she plays physical, even she is alot faster, wont do any good.

Agreed. After hours of knocking Juggs all over the place Diana will use other methods...which would guarantee her a win.

Originally posted by olympian
And of course a stalemate its always a possibility. Magic attacks or not.

If somehow or someway NOTHING works... it's a stalemate. Diana has tried everything. And Juggs simply cannot land a hit against a near-lightspeed opponent with flight.

Originally posted by olympian



In Wonder Woman`s case, even she takes the helmet off, what is she going to do? She doesnt have the power to eliminate the threat. Xavier does.

You seem to have forgotten that the Invisible Plane ALSO has telepathy. Telepathy that has bested MM and Superman in twain.

"Unfortunately for Juggernaut the Godblast focuses Thor's godly essences into a blast.

The Godwave is the primodial creation for ALL GODs and even the multiverse itself

No contest."

I let the possibility open because frankly i dont remember much about the Godwave. Can you provide a good example of how it looks like and the damage for me to check out.

" It would work. Juggernaut is incredibly dim. He's such a boasting ass he would LET it wrap around him just to boost his own ego. "

That depends on the writter. Ill just say if the lasso is written as good as it should be it can work.

"The Invisible Plane beat MM in telepathic combat. So......

True removing the helmet wouldn't hurt make him weaker...however it will make him more vulnerable to telepathic attacks. And when WW summons the Invisible Plane Juggs is gonna get a hell of headache"

Dont agree with this part. In my opinion Classic Juggernaut, its simply the high level brick with the best durability. At least in the way he was shown and written more than once. If he takes a full godblast without any kind of post injury or without showing any kind of strees out of it, a plane wont do any damage, headaches included. About the MM tp defeat, what issue was that in.

"In my opinion Thor was not written at his best since despite his vastly superior reflexes and faster than lightspeed flight speed Juggs was still manhandling him.

Diana at her best would evade every single attack and strategize a win."

When your facing someone who at this level was virtually never physically hurt, it doesnt matter much if you are faster. His durability will soak it all. The other chance would be if he would get tired. And he doesnt at this level.

Btw Draco. You have anything about " War of the Gods " ? The whole premise seems interesting, even i know most of it was badly executed. I heard Hercules was stated to have held the earth like Atlas did, is that true?

About the invisible plane attacking Juggernaut, i thought you mentioned a physical attack. I need to see more of this tp ability to make a more correct statement.

Originally posted by olympian


I let the possibility open because frankly i dont remember much about the Godwave. Can you provide a good example of how it looks like and the damage for me to check out.

It's not really a blast or anything like that. It's actually closer to the Phoenix Force. Actually it's exactly the same as the 1980 retcon Phoenix Force.

Once when Diana channeled the Godwave she managed to teleport the Earth to another dimension. When she channeled the Godwave she was in touch with every living being in the multiverse. Also the Godwave is used by the Presence itself since Chronos desired it. And destroyed half of heaven for it.

However she cannot use this for long since it would drive her mad. And a mad Godwave wielding Diana wouldn't be fun

" It would work. Juggernaut is incredibly dim. He's such a boasting ass he would LET it wrap around him just to boost his own ego. "

Originally posted by olympian
That depends on the writter. Ill just say if the lasso is written as good as it should be it can work.

Come on. Juggs has a HUGE ego. He sees a bikini-wielding woman wielding a shiny rope he'll let wrap around him without resistence. He's AlWAYS been an ass.

"The Invisible Plane beat MM in telepathic combat. So......

True removing the helmet wouldn't hurt make him weaker...however it will make him more vulnerable to telepathic attacks. And when WW summons the Invisible Plane Juggs is gonna get a hell of headache"

Originally posted by olympian
Dont agree with this part. In my opinion Classic Juggernaut, its simply the high level brick with the best durability. At least in the way he was shown and written more than once. If he takes a full godblast without any kind of post injury or without showing any kind of strees out of it, a plane wont do any damage, headaches included. About the MM tp defeat, what issue was that in.

You don't understand. The IP has uber-telepathy. Which Juggs is incredibly vulnerable to. And Juggs cannot do anything about since the IP is virtually undetectable.



Originally posted by olympian
Btw Draco. You have anything about " War of the Gods " ? The whole premise seems interesting, even i know most of it was badly executed. I heard Hercules was stated to have held the earth like Atlas did, is that true?

The avatar/real god thing was kinda badly executed.

Everything Hercules did in greek myth DC Hercules did as well. Except for the whole poisoned shirt killing him.

So yes DC Hercules has lifted the Earth for a brief time. Which suggests Diana can do better.

THIS WAS JUST DONE A FEW DAYS AGO!

Originally posted by olympian
About the invisible plane attacking Juggernaut, i thought you mentioned a physical attack. I need to see more of this tp ability to make a more correct statement.

It happened recently when the IP suddenly became aware. Apparently it wasn't technology but really an alien. It was destroying Gateway City and the JLA was called in. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were all submerged in a fantasy world. Martian Manhunter was unsuccessfully trying to telepathically freeing them. IP unfortunately countered every move.

And yes a physical attack by the IP would be completely fruitless. It's more of a mesh between Invisible Woman's forcefields and Green Lantern's ring.

And people it's pronunced WONDER WOMAN.

Not Wonderwomen.

"You don't understand. The IP has uber-telepathy. Which Juggs is incredibly vulnerable to. And Juggs cannot do anything about since the IP is virtually undetectable."

Thats where my doubts wer. So let me rephrase. If she engages in a physical match, i see Juggernaut taking the edge. Hes physically above her overall, with the exception for speed.

Using her arsenal, she gets the clear edge, the same way Thor would. Since they have the possibility of not only one, but more long range attacks.

" Come on. Juggs has a HUGE ego. He sees a bikini-wielding woman wielding a shiny rope he'll let wrap around him without resistence. He's AlWAYS been an ass. "

I wasent talking about his personality. More like the portrail of the lasso. Juggernaut is also godlike in powerset, and powered by a high level godlike being.

About him being an ass and having a ego that humbles everyone else. I wouldnt disagree. He`s even more than Herakles in that regard, and thats telling something.

"So yes DC Hercules has lifted the Earth for a brief time. Which suggests Diana can do better."

But it was it stated in DC continuity or you mean purely the myth feat ?

I seem to recall he did lifted/held Paradise Island after Atlas in that series. Again. Wonder Woman # 58 if im not wrong.

About her being stronger. My opinion is different. But that shouldnt be a surprise.

Originally posted by olympian

Thats where my doubts wer. So let me rephrase. If she engages in a physical match, i see Juggernaut taking the possible edge. Hes physically above her overall, with the exception for speed.

He's MUCH more durable. And his strength is on par with hers. That I'll agree with.

Originally posted by olympian
If she uses her arsenal, then she gets the edge, the same way Thor would. Since they have the possibility of not only one, but more long range attacks.

That's precisely what I am arguing.

Originally posted by olympian
But it was it stated in DC continuity or you mean purely the myth feat ?

It was stated in DC continuity. EVERYTHING that happened in myth happened in DC continuity. Except AFTER the Golden Girdle trial. He swayed there and that.



Originally posted by olympian
I seem to recall he did lifted/held Paradise Island after Atlas in that series. Again. Wonder Woman # 58 if im not wrong.

Actually the poor guy was forced to support the entire island for three thousand years as punishment for the raping of the Amazons.

Originally posted by olympian
About her being stronger. My opinion is different. But that shouldnt be a surprise.

I don't see how it should be. True she doesn't have many strength feats because she's not a man who has to show his strength and machoness daily but the gods specifically stated and granted her the "strength of Gaea GREATER than that of Hercules"

"He's MUCH more durable. And his strength is on par with hers. That I'll agree with. "

yup.

"That's precisely what I am arguing"

I have to as well, knowing more about the Ip. Good call.

"Actually the poor guy was forced to support the entire island for three thousand years as punishment for the raping of the Amazons"

Yes, then he held it without being in rock formation in Wonder Woman # 14. I count as a second time since it was all falling apart and he was show to save Hypollita before helding the weigth once more. In War of the Gods, i know that Atlas was helding it too. Wonder Woman # 58, im sure its that one. Atlas disappears, Hercules says something in the lines of " Not again, Atlas! " and helds it in his place.

"I don't see how it should be. True she doesn't have many strength feats because she's not a man who has to show his strength and machoness daily but the gods specifically stated and granted her the "strength of Gaea GREATER than that of Hercules"

Its not because one is a man and another is a woman. Sure Hercules stick its alot more related with strenght. But Wonder Woman is cleary a high level brick. I just consider her very sligthy below Hercules in raw strenght. Hercules both in the myths, and comics has better feats, plenetary included. That being said while there is a line by Wonder Woman about her having strenght higher than Herakles itself, lets not forget Herk has already denied that claim, saying he was stronger in response.

Both have claims to fame. Post crisis they never fougth. If you go by the earth feat you already have a comparation. Wonder Woman with help could barely keep earth in orbit. (in the Obsidian saga iirc). And Herk lifted it.

The plane isn't allowed in this fight, just the two fighters.

I'd put Jug at least 40% stronger than WW, plus he isn't as slow as you'd think.

Of course people can dodge his attacks, but normal humans have dodged WW's. Hell, there's this slightly meta human guy who gave WW a decent run for her money, made her bleed with one 2ton punch.

WW only wins this because Jug is dumb, it really has nothing to do with her abilities or skill.
Otherwise, he'd curbstomp her.

Agreed. Juggernaut its a pure streeth bully in regards to figthing. He doesnt have the necessary skills.

Originally posted by long pig
The plane isn't allowed in this fight, just the two fighters.

The threadstarter didn't say so. The plane is kept in a hidden compartment in her costume.

Originally posted by long pig
I'd put Jug at least 40% stronger than WW, plus he isn't as slow as you'd think.

That's a tremedous overstatement.

The second phrase is a tremendous understatement. The guy is very slow. Captain America had no trouble dodging his blows. As did Spider-man


Originally posted by long pig
Of course people can dodge his attacks, but normal humans have dodged WW's. Hell, there's this slightly meta human guy who gave WW a decent run for her money, made her bleed with one 2ton punch.

Come on, longpig. Enough. Seriously. You and I know that fight was crap. As is Namor vs. Wolverine. Or Spider-Man vs. Thor. The fight is simply not credible. You're using that fight as a compromise for your lack of knowledge of Wonder Woman

The fight is SvFL. Period.

Originally posted by long pig
WW only wins this because Jug is dumb, it really has nothing to do with her abilities or skill.
Otherwise, he'd curbstomp her.

Actually it has do with her SPEED. And FLIGHT. And MAGIC.

I dont agree with Jugs being 40% stronger. Raw strenght he never proved to be stronger than Thor at regular versions. Rougly the same perhaps. Stronger, no.

I dont consider Thor being that stronger than Wonder Woman as well.

About magic. It plays both ways. They are both magical beings.

Originally posted by olympian
Its not because one is a man and another is a woman. Sure Hercules stick its alot more related with strenght. But Wonder Woman is cleary a high level brick. I just consider her very sligthy below Hercules in raw strenght. Hercules both in the myths, and comics has better feats, plenetary included. That being said while there is a line by Wonder Woman about her having strenght higher than Herakles itself, lets not forget Herk has already denied that claim, saying he was stronger in response.

True Herc has much more strength feats. But I believe it's because of what his character is. "Let's see what Herc can lift next!".

And I think Hercules denied WW being stronger than him because he's a sexist bastard. Zeus himself said WW is stronger than his son. And Hercules obviously wasn't gonna let that slide.

Maybe we'll see a clear indicator in the future

Originally posted by olympian
Both have claims to fame. Post crisis they never fougth. If you go by the earth feat you already have a comparation. Wonder Woman with help could barely keep earth in orbit. (in the Obsidian saga iirc). And Herk lifted it.

The Obsidian Saga was a credible claim. However Hercules never had to deal with massive magics and the gravitational pull of the sun pulling the Earth to the Sun.

"And I think Hercules denied WW being stronger than him because he's a sexist bastard. Zeus himself said WW is stronger than his son. And Hercules obviously wasn't gonna let that slide.

Maybe we'll see a clear indicator in the future"

Both stated it on panel. He asked her two times in wotg to come down and prove it. Since they never fought post crisis and Herk has better feats than she does ill side with him. Until something else at DC about it shows and defines it for good. Mind you that the difference would never be huge. Overall she - is - more powerfull. Physically speaking, -speed aside- she never showed to be. And he has.

A nitpick. Didnt Herakles defeat Son of Vulcan in a physical match in that series?

"The Obsidian Saga was a credible claim. However Hercules never had to deal with massive magics and the gravitational pull of the sun pulling the Earth to the Sun."

Just the presumely physical forces or magical to keep it from crumbling i suposse. She was however helped by two other powerhouses while Herk did it by itself. Werent the other heroes on earth, like Manitu helping either? I see this as an indication of an edge where pure raw strenght its concerned.

Originally posted by olympian
"And I think Hercules denied WW being stronger than him because he's a sexist bastard. Zeus himself said WW is stronger than his son. And Hercules obviously wasn't gonna let that slide.

Maybe we'll see a clear indicator in the future"

Originally posted by olympian
Both stated it on panel. He asked her two times in wotg to come down and prove it. Since they never fought post crisis and Herk has better feats than she does ill side with him. Until something else at DC about it shows and defines it for good. Mind you that the difference would never be huge. Overall she - is - more powerful. Physically speaking, speed aside she never showed to be. And he has.

Thus we cannot really tell. Maybe Jonah is really Hercules in disguise. Hell he's done it before.



Originally posted by olympian
Just the presumely physical forces or magical to keep it from crumbling i suposse. She was however helped by two other powerhouses while Herk did it by itself. I see this as an indication of an edge of pure raw strenght.

Not really. The magics were moving the earth towards the sun. And the gravitational pull of the sun was supplementing it. They had to deal the the mass of the Earth as well as the magics and gravity making the process ten times harder.

Same with the moon feat in the TT/JLA arc.

Herc held the Earth while it was practically docile. WW and her teammates had to deal with a moving Earth that was supplemented by gravity and magic. Is it easy to hold a still truck or 200 mph truck?

I'm SOOO happy to meet a KMC member who is also knowledgable of WW.

Olympian, god in heaven, EVERYONE on this forum was completely and utterly ignorant of WW before I arrived.

Some people believed that Spider-Man was stronger than her and that she could only reach 500 mph. I educated them. Harshly.

That's not completely true...

... I was knowledgable about WW.

Or at least I thought I was.

Originally posted by dawsey28
That's not completely true...

... I was knowledgable about WW.

Or at least I thought I was.

You are very knowledgeable about DC in general. Unlike the massive influx of Marvelites here.

I meant back last year. Jesus Christ. They knew damn near ZERO about her.

Some actually thought she couldn't fly.

Ok. Cool Draco.

I wasn't here last year so that does make sense.

"Thus we cannot really tell. Maybe Jonah is really Hercules in disguise. Hell he's done it before."

Lets see. I didnt saw any indication yet of Rucka wanting to use him. Would be cool tho.

" Not really. The magics were moving the earth towards the sun. And the gravitational pull of the sun was supplementing it. They had to deal the the mass of the Earth as well as the magics and gravity making the process ten times harder. "

And didnt they had magical help with Manitu Raven? What about Flash lending cinetic energy to deal with the gravity iirc.

"Herc held the Earth while it was practically docile. WW and her teammates had to deal with a moving Earth that was supplemented by gravity and magic. Is it easy to hold a still truck or 200 mph truck?"

There are forces to overcome both ways. Wonder Woman had all kinds of help. Both magical and strenghtwise to act against the forces. He didnt. In the end who succeeded most? They wer stating to be losing it rigth after the first moments. It was kyle that bail them out that day.

Talking about planets going out of orbit. Herk and Thor at Marvel, in an armwrestle generated enought pressure to do it. And he was shown in a flasback helding the earth for Atlas as well.

"Olympian, god in heaven, EVERYONE on this forum was completely and utterly ignorant of WW before I arrived.

Some people believed that Spider-Man was stronger than her and that she could only reach 500 mph. I educated them. Harshly"

Your kidding right? Spider Man? People actually bought that crap?

Aquaman by himself its -alot- stronger than him, let alone Wonder Woman.

edit.

Correction: Flash was absorsing the cinetic energy more specifically. From what the story tells they wer providing counter force for the water earth had lost. They tried, eventually failed and Kyle showed up.

Off topic now, Draco. Has Poseidon been overtrow off his realm yet? After Zeus for Athena and Hades for Ares.

Well, I must say I didn't know she kept a airplane in her underwear.......

So, it's a good bet to say there isn't any tred left on her tires huh?

Well the plane isent in full shape when he sleeps there. Its like the Dragonball capsules.

You take something off your pocket that doesnt look remotly to a car and ship and then you see it.

Its kinda like that. That shows she never lost an episode.

Originally posted by olympian


Off topic now, Draco. Has Poseidon been overtrow off his realm yet? After Zeus for Athena and Hades for Ares.

No not yet. The OMAC Project is the main consensus now. Maybe in two issues or so.

Ten bucks Aquaman gets the throne.

"No not yet. The OMAC Project is the main consensus now. Maybe in two issues or so.

Ten bucks Aquaman gets the throne."

Oh i dont know. Arent they replacing the elder brothers with other Olympians? Somehow i see Aphrodite taking the realm if Poseidon is overtrow.

Rucka has been stating and writting this new trinity as the most powerful currently at DC. Athena - Ares - Aphrodite. Since in real myth and im sure Rucka is aware, the godess was "born" from the sea, i see it as the next logical step.

If anything i see Aquaman maybe stepping in to be Poseidon`s champion. Tho he and the gods never went along that well.

Very good analysis. Though I fear for the oceans and those who dwell in it in the hands of that bimbo.

i hate even looking at this but this proves who would win.

in JLA vs AVENGERS #2 book WW gets a hold of hercules and i hated it when i saw that part. didnt make sense at all. anyone know a book where WW gets her butt kicked by a marvel charactor. and if they can post that image that would be great.

Yeah stom, but is was pis also Its in the marvel vs dc collection

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Yeah stom, but is was pis also Its in the marvel vs dc collection should be the other way around. storm getting her butt kicked my WW and hecules or juggy knocking out WW

Yeah I know, its retarded

do you know another one to ?

I remember they met again in access 4

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I remember they met again in access 4 storm vs ww ?

I don't have all of the JLA/Avengers but I thinks thats basically it

Originally posted by diabloman
storm vs ww ?
yup. It was like a draw in that one

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I don't have all of the JLA/Avengers but I thinks thats basically it i have all 4 books just got through surfing the pages and i only see in book #2 WW fighting somone and thats hercules. he knocks her ass down pretty hard id like to scan that and make it a poster its funny. but she gets back up and grabs a hold of him and he cant move which sucked.

They met in the book where the justice league meets the X-men. It was briefly though.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
They met in the book where the justice league meets the X-men. It was briefly though. i havent seen that one

I don't have a scanner but follow this link

http://www.mycomicshop.com/megastore/search?pcat=Comics%2DAll&til=2526

i have # 1 its funny as hell. looks like #2 is boring judging by the cover

Yeah, I never bothered to pick up number 2.

get jla vs avengers #2 thats the best crossover ive seen. theres many fights in that one

thanks