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Gladiator vs Magento (with new powers)

Magneto owns Gladiator with his OLD powers, lol.

what if he attacks at light speed?

Ah, the speed attack. I suppose anything is possible. But given that Gladiator isn't prone to just charging at someone at lightspeed in the beginning of a fight, I usually disregard that. Either way, he'll likely kill himself charging like that at a forcefield. If he survives that, Gladiator will be like, "Huh? Impossible!". While doubting himself, a blackhole opens and sucks Gladiator in, dumping him into the nearest (or farthest) sun.

I look at it this way - if people can use the insta-speed blitz, then I can use the auto-shield to counter it. Magneto always has his shields up, which is more true than Gladiator running around speed blitzing everybody which, like, NEVER happens.

he doesn't do that doesn't mean he can't do it.

like when we say Galactus vs MU earth we all know Galactus can blow the planet up , and yet people claim that FF4 can beat him because he was trying to eat the planet.

in a vs match they can use what their powers allows them do to.

Magneto can very well win , but so can Gladiator using his powers.

Fair enough. Gladiator uses his speed blitz, Magneto has an auto-shield. Gladiator runs into the shield, loses confidence, dies.

or gladiator Grabs the moon and throws it at magneto. lol

lol...but then Magneto opens a black hole and it sucks in the moon...with Gladiator along with it.

Gladiator really is stilla class above magneto, even despite magneto's newest accomplishments.

black hole can't suck gladiator he moves faster than light.

and a blackhole sucks even light ,

i have seen superman escape a blackhole.

and when gladator is throwing the moon , by the time mags thinks about doing anything he will be dead.

magneto can win , but there are too many things Gladator can do to counter.

- Light speed you can't do anything to someone who moves faster than you can think.
- Blackhole : Gladiator is not your average dumb ass , he can easily avoid that.

etc.

So now Gladiator can grab and moon and throw it at Magneto faster than Magneto can think??? Uh...how about no.

Gladiator's speedblitz will only help him in the first moment of the fight. He won't be able to penetrate Mags forcefields. By the team Magneto's thoughts catch up with him, he'll just take over Gladiator's mind. And we all know that Gladiator is susceptible to mind control.

Originally posted by demigawd
So now Gladiator can grab and moon and throw it at Magneto faster than Magneto can think??? Uh...how about no.

Gladiator's speedblitz will only help him in the first moment of the fight. He won't be able to penetrate Mags forcefields. By the team Magneto's thoughts catch up with him, he'll just take over Gladiator's mind. And we all know that Gladiator is susceptible to mind control.

well mebee i was getting over my self there.

but gladiator can and shown he can travel surfer fast.

he battled Surfer , Thor and was doing good.

what makes you think the shield will be able to hold Gladiator? Some one who can rip stars (haha oh my) .

and magneto doesn't have his shield on always if he did he will be drained of energy.

Gladiator would eventually win.

Why would Magneto be drained of energy for always having his shield on? He always goes into fights with his shield up - that's why Cyclops and his light speed optic blasts always get deflected. Gladiator, even moving at light speed, would be going about as fast as Cyke's optic blasts. Magneto blocked that, he'd block Gladiator.

Gladiator's problem is that he's inconsistent. You can name a good showing against Surfer (but he loss), I can name a bad showing against Cannonball. You can name a good showing against Thor, I can name a bad showing against Gambit. He's easy to manipulate and take advantage of. If he just speed blitzed everybody, the FF would have been toast, Thor would have been toast, everybody would have been toast. He doesn't. My guess is because he thinks at normal speed. Magneto could easily use that to his advantage with his mind control powers.

I am going for Mag here, but demigawd ,Scott's blast is certainly not lightspeed.

Scott's blast is light. Therefore it's lightspeed. He technically should never miss, but that's comics for you. Ditto with laser guns.

Actully Cyclops blast should be at lightspeed. But still I think Gladiator would eventulaly win against Magento.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Actully Cyclops blast should be at lightspeed. But still I think Gladiator would eventulaly win against Magento.

Gladiator can exceed lightspeed. Heck if we're using logic the way demigawd is, Gladiator's speed and strength would break Magneto's force field with less than a punch or two.

Think about it, Flash can knock people like Wonder Woman just because he's moving at such a high speed that he's able to generate the power to do so. And Flash strength is normal is it not? Gladiator has operated at 100X speed of light and his strength is Class 100. Now logic dictates that Gladiator would generate a punch that would kill Wonder Woman if Flash can send WW flying with his punch.

Gladiator would rip right through Magneto's force field kill him.

Sorry but cyclops blasts arent light energy they do not travel at lightspeed and thats a fact. His blasts are pure force. His body metabolises solar energy and the result is his force beams. Its always been made clear that his blasts are pure force so where any of you got the lightspeed thing from is beyond me

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Sorry but cyclops blasts arent light energy they do not travel at lightspeed and thats a fact. His blasts are pure force. His body metabolises solar energy and the result is his force beams. Its always been made clear that his blasts are pure force so where any of you got the lightspeed thing from is beyond me

And considering people have dodge his blast before, hairy Logan for instance.

ok what exactly are magnetos new powers?

Magneto has gone beyond mere magnetism and is on the verge of Surfer-like molecular manipulation (hush fanboys, I'm not saying he could take Surfer). He can generate black holes, apparently has power over various different fields of energy (i think electrical and possibly others) and generally just got a power boost.

Speed blitz into auto shield...I'll agree with demi there. And while Gladiator might be able to move the moon, he's not going to chuck it at Mags like it's a baseball.

Magneto is wicked powerful in his new form. If Gladiator can't make it a quick fight, he'd lose....I'd give it to Mags 7/10 times (new Mags mind you...old one would get whupped every time).

-DM

Originally posted by Beyonder
Gladiator can exceed lightspeed. Heck if we're using logic the way demigawd is, Gladiator's speed and strength would break Magneto's force field with less than a punch or two.

Think about it, Flash can knock people like Wonder Woman just because he's moving at such a high speed that he's able to generate the power to do so. And Flash strength is normal is it not? Gladiator has operated at 100X speed of light and his strength is Class 100. Now logic dictates that Gladiator would generate a punch that would kill Wonder Woman if Flash can send WW flying with his punch.

Gladiator would rip right through Magneto's force field kill him.

Good attempt at demilogic, but you forgot the part where you explain how Gladiator's momentum and strength would break Magneto's forcefield with less than a punch or two.

Additionally, if Gladiator went faster than light towards Magneto, he'd go back in time and Magneto wouldn't be there yet, lol.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Sorry but cyclops blasts arent light energy they do not travel at lightspeed and thats a fact. His blasts are pure force. His body metabolises solar energy and the result is his force beams. Its always been made clear that his blasts are pure force so where any of you got the lightspeed thing from is beyond me

Looked it up....seems you're right. Nothing really described it as being anything more than pure force that does so and so with gravitons. So I guess we really don't know how fast it is.

Either way, Magneto has his shield up at all times, to a speed blitz won't automatically take him down. Gladiator, thinking Magneto is just a man, will hit into him, Magneto won't fall, then Gladiator will go into the same crisis he did against Cannonball, making him vulnerable. Then Magneto will take over his mind and tell him to go fly into the sun. Gladiator will do so happily...

The Cannonball thing was a fluke.

My rule of thumb for evaluating a character is if you take away his lowest showing, you have to take away his highest too. And every low showing you want to expunge, you have to take away a high one too.

Originally posted by demigawd
Looked it up....seems you're right. Nothing really described it as being anything more than pure force that does so and so with gravitons. So I guess we really don't know how fast it is.

Either way, Magneto has his shield up at all times, to a speed blitz won't automatically take him down. Gladiator, thinking Magneto is just a man, will hit into him, Magneto won't fall, then Gladiator will go into the same crisis he did against Cannonball, making him vulnerable. Then Magneto will take over his mind and tell him to go fly into the sun. Gladiator will do so happily...

Is that why Superman and Flash went back in time whenever they hit speeds faster than light? Both Gladiator and Surfer has hit speeds exceed lightspeed and never did they travel back in time.

Oh man, your over doing his shield. Kallark hitting speeds faster than light and ramming with Class 100 level strength would knock Magneto and his shield down.

Please, he wasn't even their to kill Cannonball. Kallark toyed with him the whole time, most of the fight Cannonball was getting handed by Gladiator looking for laughs. But since this is an arena battle, Gladiator ain't joking, so Magneto isn't pulling off any sh!t like Cannonball did.

Erik would get rapped by Gladiator. And if you know so much about Magneto, why would you saying something like Gladiator would think that Magneto is just a man? Please, they've run into each other enough. Eric the Red even gave Magnus his youth back, you think the leader of the Imperial Guard wouldn't know something like that?

Originally posted by Beyonder
Gladiator can exceed lightspeed. Heck if we're using logic the way demigawd is, Gladiator's speed and strength would break Magneto's force field with less than a punch or two.

Think about it, Flash can knock people like Wonder Woman just because he's moving at such a high speed that he's able to generate the power to do so. And Flash strength is normal is it not? Gladiator has operated at 100X speed of light and his strength is Class 100. Now logic dictates that Gladiator would generate a punch that would kill Wonder Woman if Flash can send WW flying with his punch.

Gladiator would rip right through Magneto's force field kill him.

I agree, Gladiator, even if he woudln't use lightspeed he could go tghouh Magento shield and ha the pwoer to easily go throuh Magneto shiedl.

And I am disgisdted by Marvel Universe, always makein gup new thigns, they haven't had ever in mind to make MAgneto even immortal or enw powers till now, it is just disgusting.

It seems like all magneto got was a slight boost in his powers cause he already had minor control over gravity, electricity and the electromagnetic spectrum.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Is that why Superman and Flash went back in time whenever they hit speeds faster than light? Both Gladiator and Surfer has hit speeds exceed lightspeed and never did they travel back in time.


Superman cannot go faster than light. He can only achieve a high percentage of lightspeed.

Flash only goes faster than light when he uses speedforce. One of the properties of speedforce is, in fact, that you arrive before you left. Remember, the principal of speedforce is that you beat instantaneous teleportation - the only way that can be achieved is if you arrive before you left. So yeah, that principle stills applies.

And Gladiator or Surfer have never attacked at lightspeed. They've flown at lightspeed, but they don't fight at lightspeed. The reason why, I surmise, is because they don't think at lightspeed. Otherwise they'd be unhittable by people like Hulk, who does not move at lightspeed. If Gladiator still thinks at normal speed, then he's not at any extra advantage against Magneto. Magneto's shields will already be up.



I've named three instances where Magneto's shields have held up against extreme force. Name some instances where Kellogg has broken through forcefields by ramming it at FTL speeds.



What a way to exaggerate. What part of, "I suggest, terran, that you lose the jacket, because it's going to be a lot hotter where you're going...the SUN!" followed by, "Impossible! That was my most powerful blow! No man could survive that!" gave you the impression that a)Gladiator was fooling around and b) Gladiator wasn't trying to kill Cannonball?



Because Gladiator is arrogant. I'm sure he knows who Magneto is, but figures that he's nothing by comparison. Gladiator has an "all or nothing" personality. Either you're nothing compared to him or he has a terrible inferiority complex.

Originally posted by demigawd
Superman cannot go faster than light. He can only achieve a high percentage of lightspeed.

Flash only goes faster than light when he uses speedforce. One of the properties of speedforce is, in fact, that you arrive before you left. Remember, the principal of speedforce is that you beat instantaneous teleportation - the only way that can be achieved is if you arrive before you left. So yeah, that principle stills applies.

Flash always uses the speedforce. That's how he's the Flash.



Thor and the FF four were using Reed's device to amp themselves 100X the speed of light. Gladiator shows up and battles Thor at 100X the speed of light. Reed even pointed out that Gladiator was operating at 100X the speed of light. Gladiator can do this.



Just because you named three instances that doesn't mean this shows Gladiator can't. Gladiator's used his lightspeed to ramming Ego numerous times - hit and round tactic. If your going to bring up Magneto's high feats, well Kallark has smashed a planet to pieces.



Way to not used logic demigawd. Gladiator was there to ask the X-Men to assist the Shi'Ar Empire. If he killed Cannonball, you think the X-Men would help him? You think Empress Lilandra would be pleased?

As for what he said, it's a figure of speech. USE YOUR LOGIC DEMIGAWD, USE YOU LOGIC...IF YOU HAVE ANY.



Oh please, this is an arena fight. They go all out at each other. If your going to bring up arrogance, Magneto ain't? You think Magneto's going to kill Gladiator right off the bat? He'll be too busy boasting about how even the leader of the Imperial Guard should fear the Master Of Magnetism.

the new magneto would obliterate gladiator

Originally posted by Beyonder
Flash always uses the speedforce. That's how he's the Flash.


Flash does not always use the speedforce. In fact, not all Flashes are even able to use the speedforce at all. Speedforce is a special skill.



That storyline doesn't jive with continuity. Thor has fought and beaten Gladiator without using any superspeed devices or any superspeed at all. Hulk doesn't fight at 100 times the speed of light - he nailed Gladiator but good. Colossus gave as good as he got for awhile against Gladiator (and this was Gladiator as written by his creator) and Colossus doesn't move at 100 times the speed of light. The amount of evidence that's against that is overwhelming. So much so that I'd disregard that fight.



Thor has the same power - and Magneto blocked him just fine. Multiple times. And this before THREE power ups. Unless you're saying that Gladiator is SO much more powerful than Thor that he can do AFTER three power ups what Thor could not BEFORE three power ups, then it's safe to conclude that Gladiator is not going to take down Magneto's shields, at least not before Magneto takes over Gladiator's mind.

Let's take this to the next level - Gladiator's power is psionic in nature. He's actually a tactile telekinetic. Magneto's power interferes with psionics. If Gladiator came in contact with Magneto's shield, it would interrupt his power and vastly decrease his speed, power and durability.



My logic is just fine. You may want to re-examine yours, however. Gladiator has no idea what Cannonball's powers are - and yet he hit Cannonball with an iron beam. If not for Cannonball's powers, HE WOULD HAVE DIED. that's hardly the work of a man just trying to hold Cannonball off, don't you think? Gladiator came into the fight not wanting to hurt Cannonball, but after getting punked and countered, Gladiator got pissed off and started using lethal tactics that Cannonball was smart enough to counter. Would the X-men and Lilandra have been pissed? Yeah...but when you're getting punked like that and you're proud and mighty, logic goes out the window.



FIGURE OF SPEECH?!? He was SHOCKED Cannonball was ALIVE! What are you smoking??? If he wasn't trying to kill him, he wouldn't have been so shocked that his confidence dropped like a brick.



Magneto doesn't need to kill Gladiator to put him down. He just calmly de-activates Gladiator's powers and then tells him to go home...or go punch himself until he's knocked out.

Originally posted by demigawd

And Gladiator or Surfer have never attacked at lightspeed. They've flown at lightspeed, but they don't fight at lightspeed.

not treu Surfer has fought beyond light speed.

and no you don't go back in time. ( surfer has taveled much faster than light many times without opening portal)

When has he fought faster than light?

You can travel faster than light to a destination...you just arrive in the past relative to when you left. For example - if you leave at 3pm and you travel at, say, twice the speed of light for half an hour, you arrive at your destination at 3:10, not 3:30, even though you traveled for a half an hour. You've essentially gone back in time, even though time has indeed passed. Does that make sense?

Yes in reality that's how it works according to Einstein theory that this is comic lol.

As you approach light speed, time is slow for the rest, and if you go beyond, you should go back in time.

Just a theory and comic don't seem to follow that logic.

i don't remember there were some issue.

there was one i remember is when he was fighting some Rune's Henchman

Somebody call magnetos momma cause hes about to whip somebody!

Originally posted by kgkg
Yes in reality that's how it works according to Einstein theory that this is comic lol.

As you approach light speed, time is slow for the rest, and if you go beyond, you should go back in time.

Just a theory and comic don't seem to follow that logic.

i don't remember there were some issue.

there was one i remember is when he was fighting some Rune's Henchman

See, I wish people would stop with the whole, "I don't remember, some issue with some guy somewhere". If people remember that little about an issue....suddenly they remember that Surfer was fighting at lightspeed? Or Gladiator?

I will find it if you don't beileve me LMAO.

But you don't follow your own logic:

Someone who can travel beyond light speed can't fight at light speed that just doesn't make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? You can fly at light speed, but that doesn't mean you have the reaction time or thinking ability to fight at that speed. Storm, for example, can fly at mach three, correct? She doesn't have superhuman reaction time or combat speed....that's just her flying velocity.

how does storm fly? wind?

Iron also does the same , but he uses external source.

why whouldn't Gladiator able to fight at light speed.

he already did in once while fight with THor.

and you don't think at those speed flying throw space they will be hitting ; astroid , stars , blackholes. so they need to think pretty fast

and silversurfer once was going threw an astroid blet(astroid field)without hitting any.

Thats cause he is the surfer lolol

When you're flying at lightspeed, your body converts to energy, so you don't have to avoid objects in the way. I know it sounds like I'm talking real world stuff again, but it was actually brought to my attention in the pages of Flash.

It just seems incredibly inconsistent to me that Gladiator can fight at lightspeed, but getting whipped by characters who don't move near that speed. There are so many more instances where he hasn't moved at lightspeed than he has that I have to disregard the case of him fighting at 100x the speed of light. He's never shown that kind of speed before or since.

But that's how they explain Flash being able to travel all over the place without running into walls and stuff. Some kind of light molecule phase or somesuch. I figure the same thing must happen with every light speeder. I dunno...the whole lightspeed thing is too vague and inconsistent for me, lol.

Either way, Gladiator would have to penetrate Magneto's shields. But just the process of attempting to do so would screw up his psionic abilities - he'd immediately slow down and get weaker. Then, Magneto would take him out.

Flash is DC.

We are talking about marvel.

Bugs bunny never dies i wonder why????

How whould it scew his psionic abilites?

Originally posted by demigawd
Flash does not always use the speedforce. In fact, not all Flashes are even able to use the speedforce at all. Speedforce is a special skill.

He doesn't? The speedforce gives him his power. Otherwise he's not the Flash.



Yeah, doesn't jive with continuity. You mean like how Magneto screws with the iron in someone's blood? Or how he can mind control people? Or how Magneto opens up a wormhole and you use it as a reason that Magneto can create a blackhole to suck up his opponent? How many times has he done each of this tactics? ...Cccccuz the argument doesn't seem to jive with continuity.

Superman gets tagged as well and he can move and think as fast or faster than light. Thor has the god blast - how many times have we seen him use it? Namor can produce electric shocks from his body, does he often use it?



Thor can smash a planet to pieces in three blows? Has Thor moved asteroids under his on strength?



It can also work the other way around and bust his powers. Or Gladiator would slam into Magneto fast enough for that to take effect. Magneto would be dead after a speed blitz, so much for it affecting Kallark in a good or bad way.



He doesn't know Cannonball? How the hell does he not know Cannonball and his power. You act as if Gladiator clueless. Try this, if Gladiator didn't know what Cannonball's powers are, why the hell would he hit him with an iron beam?

Would he kill someone over his pride being hurt? Please, you don't know Gladiator at all. He puts his honor before his pride. He puts Lilandra and the Empire before his own self. This sh!t you've been crapping is nonsense. He's not a murderer, nor would he kill an ally over something like pride.



???Because Gladiator is a cold blooded murderer. You don't know sh!t about Kallark. Not only that, you seem to think he'd kill a kid. :laughs: Ever heard of crappy writing? Well here it is. Leader of the Imperial Guard actually trying to kill a kid who's also an ally of his Empire.



How? Where do you get these ideas? Why didn't he deactivate Doom, Thor, or the X-Men and tell them to go home?

magneto is cool and everything and his shields are durable but i dont think is shield can stand up to planet shattering blows

on a side note, the cannon ball thing Gladiator didnt show up to fight, its just that CB was basically doing his best johnny storm impression, rushing into a fight like some dumb ass. kallark was just annoyed at first and after his patience was tried thats when he got serious...so i would say that after that point he was intent on killing him

also if glad could do the phase thru solid objects at light speed thing like flash, that would be a awesome cuz if you know, for a while impulse was the only flash who could do it without making the molecules of the object explode, its only been recently with the aid of the speed force that wally can do it now, so since marvel has no such thing as a speed force if he(glad) were to do that he would explode magneto's molecules or at the very least that of his shiled

Gladiator doesn't need lightspeed to go throug Magento shield. Gladiator can be stopped if he is flying at lightspeed, but not by Magneto.

Well, they just don't bother explaining FTL in Marvel, mainly because there's not much emphasis on speed there. I don't think it's been explained one way or another. But I guess that's beside the point.

Bugs Bunny???

Magnetic fields interfere with psionic power. It's how Magneto was able to block Xavier, Phoenix and Psylocke from detecting him at the same time. It was also how he was able to fight back against Phoenix (he, by the way, had a MUCH better showing against Phoenix than Gladiator). he interrupted Nate Grey's psionic field (they weren't fighting - it was a misunderstanding, but Nate couldn't contain his energies). His ability to disrupt psionic patterns is well-established. Since Gladiator's power is psionic, it's a bad match up.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He doesn't? The speedforce gives him his power. Otherwise he's not the Flash.


I'll chalk this one up to you not knowing anything about the Flash. The speedforce gives him his power, but each Flash is able to only tap into a certain amount of the speedforce. That is why some are faster than others. He can only exceed the speed of light by tapping into it at extreme levels, which in the past has threatened to kill him. And once he does so, he beats instant travel...by arriving in the past.



Done on no less than a dozen occasions.


Six occasions



New power - there's no track record established for it since it's only two months old.



I see what you tried to do there. Fine attempt, but it didn't quite work out in your favor.



That's the thing - what makes Flash unique is that he thinks at superspeed, which makes him always able to fight at superspeed. Superman can't unless he's completely focused, and that explains why sometimes he can speedblitz and other times he's ambushed. It's been said that Quicksilver is a grumpy bastard because the entire world moves in slow motion to him - his thoughts and actions are completely tied. He does everything at superspeed. Not so for Superman, or Gladiator. That's why they get nailed. Their thinking and reaction times aren't lightspeed.



Offhand, five times. Someone even more familiar with Thor can probably think of even more times.



So you're trying to say that Gladiator is in a strength class beyond Thor?? That he hits harder with his bare hands than Thor does with Mjolnir? heh...heheh....hehehehehehahahahaahhaa!




I disagree. I don't believe for a second that Gladiator can generate more force in the one second it will take Magneto to knock him out than Thor was able to generate for a solid minute of pounding or Galactus was able to generate with a full blast. You're giving Gladiator WAY more credit than you ought to.



He's not clueless...they've just never met. He knows that Cannonball is a member of the team, but he has no idea what Cannonball can and cannot take. He tried to kill Cannonball...you're being delusional to think otherwise.



Um...because he was trying to kill Cannonball.



Uh huh, and I'm sure he was just trying to tickle Cannonball with that massive punch, huh? Please...if Cannonball didnt' come up with that brilliant strategy, he would have been DEAD. Do you deny that? When Cannonball didnt die, Gladiator was SHOCKED. Do you deny that? Did Gladiator say that was his most powerful blow? Or will you deny that? Would Gladiator hit a boy as hard as he can if he weren't trying to kill him?

End of story.



Oh, so we move from justifying the issue by saying it was never Gladiator's intention to kill Cannonball to calling it crappy writing? Is that your subtle way of conceding the point?





He never had a full battle with Doom. The last time he fought Thor, he handled him just fine, and he always handles the X-men. His good, conflicted side gets the best of him. He never loses from being overpowered by his enemies.

You know, magnetism effects all things. This is how molecules are held together. Stars are held together through different levels of magnetism. Now, I'm not gonna argue that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby knew what they were creating when the came up with th eidea of Magneto. But a character that can control, manipulate and create magnetic fields is a pretty powerful character. If you consider that magnetism holds a star together and when a star collapses it creates a black hole, then you've got to admit there is little Gladiator could do to keep his ass from being handed to him by Magneto. If he travels at light speed, and black hole is capable of swallowing matter, even light, then the argument is over.

So, to keep referring to Magnetos advancements in power as "new powers" is a little off the mark. He's always had the ability to do these things, given the very nature of his power, maybe he just didn't know how to until now. That's why mutants have to learn to use their powers.

Can someone tell me which issue of the comic he displayed this black hole ability?

Excalibur #7 or 8. He created a wormhole to instantly move from Genosha to NYC. A wormhole is simply a blackhole and whitehole tied together.

And you're right...they're not powers that he was given, just powers that they learned. They're new abilities to him, but not the result of some enhancement. They actually explain all of that in the current issue of Excalibur and why he is now displaying powers are a greater level than ever.

Originally posted by demigawd
Done on no less than a dozen occasions.

When?




Really? Issues please.



Will see.



I didn't fell anything.



? Again, Gladiator speed blitzed Ego and fought Thor at 100X speed of light.



No. The argument is he rarely uses this attack - but it doesn't mean he can't.



When has Thor destroyed a planet? Thor's main power ain't his strength.



? Kinda like you giving Magneto way more credit than he deserves?



Yes. Because he was their to kill Cannonball.




Um...if he didn't know Cannonball's powers, why'd he knock Cannonball around in the first place? He could've killed Cannonball in the first blow - JUST before Cannonball hurt Kallark's pride.

Funny how you assume Kallark is a murderer. How he'd just murder an ally despite meaning it go against his Highess and Empire's wishes.



Yeah, a badly written. Maybe they outta write one with Thor fighting a member of New Mutants, toying with him first and ending up trying to kill the kid (probably) Jubilee.

Gladiator is such a murder. uke:



Why are you rolling your eyes? Is the fact that Gladiator not a murderer giving you a headache? What's the matter you can compute that fact into logic?

I say it again, WHY THE HELL WOULD HE BE STUPID & FOOLISHLY KILL A KID? A KID WHO'S ALSO PART OF THE X-MEN - ALLY TO THE SHI'AR EMPIRE.

Not bad writting? Gah, obviously that doesn't compute. Maybe you outta find that warranty for your brain. Looks like you got a lemon.



Nah, Doom just punked him with some gas. Thor? The one that doesn't have super speed or moves asteroid on his own?

Originally posted by Beyonder
When?


Most recently in Magneto Dark Seduction, when he manhandled the Avengers that way.

Previously he did it to the Avengers AGAIN when the flung Quicksilver for miles and knocked Cap back with his own shield

Previously when he encountered Nate Grey while he was timelost - he grabbed him by the iron in his blood and overloaded his powers.

Previously in four different issues during the Fatal Attractions saga (so that's FOUR times) - including the opening sequence when he blocked Jean and Xavier's telepathy and locked up X-men, X-Factor, X-Force and several others at the same time by their iron

I'm not going to go back and give an exaustive list. Needless to say, I think I've made my point.



Mind Control:

Most recently, in the previous Excalibur, when he forced the teleporter to jump

Previously - Odekirk the Forger during Kelly's run

Previously - undid Beast's brainwashing by Doom and used him to build the counter-insurgency against Doom when he conquered Earth

Previously - The Avengers (has a habit of punking them) when he was forcing Scarlet Witch to dance (a little creepy, actually), and made the rest of the Avengers do silly things by controlling the electrical impulses in their brains. He lost because Vision did some weird partial solidification trick on someone's mind, which hid himself from Magneto until he ambushed him.

Previously - Mind controlled Warren's parents and used them to set a trap to kidnap the X-men

Happy?

Now...in exchange, tell me all the times when Kellogg did lightspeed fighting. You mentioned his fight against Ego - did it say lightspeed? Ego is slow.

The 100x the speed of light thing sounds like a one-off to me. That's why I don't consider it valid. Of course, if you can come up with as many cases as I did with those two examples above, then I'll concede the point that Kellogg can fight at lightspeed.



And the difference is, Magneto frequently uses the iron in the blood attack - it's part of who he is. The speed blitz is something I very rarely see Gladiator do. It shows me that because he's just a guy with psionic powers that he'd have to access them in order to do his feats. That means his thinking speed is normal - he couldn't speed blitz Magneto like that in the beginning because their thinking speeds are identical. Gladiator and Magneto think to attack at the same time - Magneto's shields are up and he's sending a command to Gladiator's brain. By the time Gladiator starts pounding on Mags shields, it will have been too late - Gladiator might get a couple of shots in on the shields, but he'll already be mental toast.



Thor was able to break Celestial armor. He lifted the Midgard Serpent!!! That's plenty strong. His main power ain't his strength, that's true...because he's multi-dimensional. Didn't stop Magneto from handling him in their rematch.



See citations above. I'm giving him exactly the credit he deserves.



Now we're on the same page!





Because he tried to kill him! LOL



Remember - Gladiator didn't do that to Cannonball right off the bat. He tried to restrain him at first, but Cannonball kept fighting back. He's the exact order of the fight:

Gladiator grabs Cannonball and says, "I'm looking for the X-men", but not trying to hurt him.

Cannonball breaks free flies around Gladiator and sends him flying from the back, TAKING GLADIATOR BY SURPRISE (so much for superspeed).

Gladiator, once he gets his bearings, stops Cannonball in mid-air. Not trying to hurt him or anything. He then tells Cannonball to surrender before he hurts himself

Cannonball then grabs Gladiator and shifts momentum, sending them flying in the rubble below. Again, Gladiator is TOO SLOW to react.

It wasn't until he said, "I shall suffer this affront no further!" that he started physically attacking Cannonball, knowing full well that Cannonball could die from it. Was it a poor decision? Yes, but how often do we make regretful decisions out of rage in our lives? Pretty often.



Frankly, Gladiator doesn't have much respect for the X-men. I'm reading this issue now and he refers to them as "mongrels". Surely killing one mongrel wouldn't mean much. Furthermore, it's not like he asked for the X-men's help...he basically teleported them without even waiting for an answer. That shows disdain, not respect.

Either way, arguing the mechanics of it is pointless. It all comes down to this:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/attachments/050112151351/Cball%20vs%20Glads6.jpg

GLADIATOR IS SHOCKED CANNONBALL IS ALIVE.

I don't understand what more there is to be said about this fight.



So you've gone from trying to explain how I completely misread the issue to now calling it crap? Well, I call Gladiator fighting Thor at 100x the speed of light when neither of them have ever done anything like that before crap.



There's no point in arguing any of this further - I showed above that Gladiator was clearly trying to kill Cannonball - look at his reaction. Further arguments are irrelevant.



Uh huh, I'll look into it. In the meantime, try taking some reading classes. Then re-read the issue.

blackhole, fight over, gladiator loses

Dammit! Here's the link:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/attachments/050112151351/Cball%20vs%20Glads6.jpg

You'll have to right-click download it to see it.

wow hahahahhaahahah. cannonball taking gladiators most powerful shot, and he stands there like cannonballs juggernaut hahahah

gladiator stinks

Originally posted by demigawd

Now...in exchange, tell me all the times when Kellogg did lightspeed fighting. You mentioned his fight against Ego - did it say lightspeed? Ego is slow.

The 100x the speed of light thing sounds like a one-off to me. That's why I don't consider it valid. Of course, if you can come up with as many cases as I did with those two examples above, then I'll concede the point that Kellogg can fight at lightspeed.

He speed blitz Ego at lightspeed while a band of Shi'Ar shipped attacked Ego - but Gladiator was more successful. He didn't win but he didn't lose. Ego couldn't do a thing to him, Surfer shows up and demands Gladiator leave Ego alone. They fight; they stalemated; both left with a mutual argument; Galactus was pissed; he was hoping for the Gladiator and the Shi'Ar to weaken Ego so as Galactus would come in at the last minute, destroy them, and consume a weakenned Ego.

Reed used a device to amp up the FF and Thor's speed to 100X lightspeed to counter an effect that had slowed the Shi'Ar Empire to a crawl. Gladiator detected them and engaged Thor in battle. Thor only operated at 100X lightspeed do to Reed's device; Gladiator did it under his own power. And we both know Reed can come up with a lot of crazy devices.

He fought Wonder Man and kicked his butt easily. Masterson Thor (who was afraid to face Kallark at first) slams into Gladiator from behind. Kallark knocks that punk and sends him flying like a tennis, then moved right behind Masterson and pounds him in the back again. Gladiator demonated until Masterson used Mjlnornir to pull Avenger's member Living Lightning out of the sky and hit Gladiator by suprise, the Masterson hammered away (litterally) at a weakenned Gladiator. He won, but not without outside interference. Even then, they were afraid since him seemed like he was about to wake up. Masterson opens up a stargate in space, threw Kallark into it before he awoke.

In Across All Worlds, a future Gladiator is sent back to battle the real Thor again. Grabs a part of a building and throws it at Thor who smashes it, only to have Gladiator rush him at lightspeed and kick Mjlnornir out of Thor's hand and all the way out into some harbor. Thor reverts back into Jake. Kallark nearly kills him but Tarene shows up to stop Kallark. A disguised Enchantress drove a nearly dead Jake to find his hammer - if she was there he would've been dead. Kallark scuffles with Tarene, then decides to take her out, throws a water tower on her and hits super cold breath to freeze her and all the waters. Goes off to find Thor, Tarene later breaks free. Enchantress helps Jake get to his hammer, but then Gladiator slams right into him. They both had a rematch and some things happen in between (rescues airplane); Thor wins out in the end, Tarene attacks Gladiator in final time. Odin shows up, Gladiator's an his knees begging Odin that his son will soon commit great attrocities in the future - Odin acknowledges this and sends Gladiator back to the future.



Showed you.



Don't you mean Thor's hammer + Odin's power? Wasn't like he did it on his own.




Poorer than him killing Cannonball? 'Cause his mission was to "find the X-Men" because "he NEEDED them to go IN HIS STEAD" to "SAVE the EMPIRE."

Then he tells Cannonball: "To send a youth into such danger would be a lack of HONOR."

And what's the next issue titled? "Six Against the Galaxy." He was their to find the X-Men - not to kill Cannonball.



He doesn't, but does that mean he'd kill a kid? Logic demigawd, logic. Please get some if you don't have 'em already.



So? You think that's not crappy writting? Gladiator ain't a cold blooded murderer. Do you even know who Gladiator is? In that same issue Gladiator says: "To send a youth into such danger would be a lack of HONOR."




I did. Now go get yourself some logic.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He speed blitz Ego at lightspeed while a band of Shi'Ar shipped attacked Ego - but Gladiator was more successful. He didn't win but he didn't lose. Ego couldn't do a thing to him, Surfer shows up and demands Gladiator leave Ego alone. They fight; they stalemated; both left with a mutual argument; Galactus was pissed; he was hoping for the Gladiator and the Shi'Ar to weaken Ego so as Galactus would come in at the last minute, destroy them, and consume a weakenned Ego.

Reed used a device to amp up the FF and Thor's speed to 100X lightspeed to counter an effect that had slowed the Shi'Ar Empire to a crawl. Gladiator detected them and engaged Thor in battle. Thor only operated at 100X lightspeed do to Reed's device; Gladiator did it under his own power. And we both know Reed can come up with a lot of crazy devices.

He fought Wonder Man and kicked his butt easily. Masterson Thor (who was afraid to face Kallark at first) slams into Gladiator from behind. Kallark knocks that punk and sends him flying like a tennis, then moved right behind Masterson and pounds him in the back again. Gladiator demonated until Masterson used Mjlnornir to pull Avenger's member Living Lightning out of the sky and hit Gladiator by suprise, the Masterson hammered away (litterally) at a weakenned Gladiator. He won, but not without outside interference. Even then, they were afraid since him seemed like he was about to wake up. Masterson opens up a stargate in space, threw Kallark into it before he awoke.

In Across All Worlds, a future Gladiator is sent back to battle the real Thor again. Grabs a part of a building and throws it at Thor who smashes it, only to have Gladiator rush him at lightspeed and kick Mjlnornir out of Thor's hand and all the way out into some harbor. Thor reverts back into Jake. Kallark nearly kills him but Tarene shows up to stop Kallark. A disguised Enchantress drove a nearly dead Jake to find his hammer - if she was there he would've been dead. Kallark scuffles with Tarene, then decides to take her out, throws a water tower on her and hits super cold breath to freeze her and all the waters. Goes off to find Thor, Tarene later breaks free. Enchantress helps Jake get to his hammer, but then Gladiator slams right into him. They both had a rematch and some things happen in between (rescues airplane); Thor wins out in the end, Tarene attacks Gladiator in final time. Odin shows up, Gladiator's an his knees begging Odin that his son will soon commit great attrocities in the future - Odin acknowledges this and sends Gladiator back to the future.


Good research, I commend you. It definitely shows he has superspeed, but 1)"Lightspeed" or greater was only specifically mentioned in that one storyline and 2)It's all been the result of flying at superspeed, rather than combat at that speed. He flies someplace really fast and takes an action. It's similar to what he did against Cannonball, so it's consistent. But that doesn't shown heightened reaction time, or the ability to react before someone could think - that's why, even with his superspeed, Masterson was able to get the drop on Gladiator, as was Tarene and Cannonball and numerous other non-speedsters. If your reaction time was that fast, you'd sense them in the process of touching you and could instantly shift your momentum to avoid it. It would be impossible for someone to ever get the drop on you....but it's happened to Gladiator.

So to bring this topic that went way off course full circle - Gladiator's superspeed doesn't mean he can take action before Magneto can think - Gladiator's thinking and reaction times aren't shown to match his focused bursts of speed.

Your entire argument is predicated on the notion that Gladiator would put down Magneto before Magneto can think. Your own examples show otherwise. Your secondary argument is that Gladiator can penetrate Magneto's shields in one hit. Magneto's history has proven otherwise. Magneto's shields will certainly last the .5 seconds it would take to counter attack Gladiator and put him down permanently. Because the insta-blitz option is off the table, Magneto ultimately has far more weapons at his command, including two Gladiator is unusually vulnerable to - radiation and mind-control.



Indeed. Always nice to debate someone with a good command of facts and evidence. You talk a little trash, but not AC level, so it's all good.



Actually, that got retconned. It was originally Odin's power, but several years later, it was changed to a regular Thor godblast.



All of these quotes are all well and good. But the bottom line here is that Gladiator is SHOCKED that Cannonball is alive. Gladiator wouldn't be SHOCKED that Cannonball is alive if he wasn't trying to kill him, yes or no? Why, you ask?

Because it's logical.

Originally posted by Beyonder


I don't get it. If Gladiator can beat anyone, then why does he need X-Men to help them? For that matter, why has the Shi'ar ever needed anyone else if Gladiator is all that?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I don't get it. If Gladiator can beat anyone, then why does he need X-Men to help them? For that matter, why has the Shi'ar ever needed anyone else if Gladiator is all that?

I don't have the other issues that followed this. However, it's a comic book and it's a X-title as well. Crazy things happen when it should: Wolverine taking out Exodus or even standing up to Hulk, Spiderman beating Firelord.

There might be a good reason for this; the next issue deals with the Empire over runned by the Phalanx. My guess is that the Phalanx have trouble asymulating mutants; hence, the X-Men are more suited to fight the Phalanx. Just a guess.

Originally posted by demigawd
Ah, the speed attack. I suppose anything is possible. But given that Gladiator isn't prone to just charging at someone at lightspeed in the beginning of a fight, I usually disregard that. Either way, he'll likely kill himself charging like that at a forcefield. If he survives that, Gladiator will be like, "Huh? Impossible!". While doubting himself, a blackhole opens and sucks Gladiator in, dumping him into the nearest (or farthest) sun.

A black hole doesn't have an "exit". It is an immensely small, incredibly dense compression of an enormous amount of matter that has collapsed upon itself, creating an irresistible gravitational pull.

Gladiator would be killed when his body is ripped apart as he is being pulled into the black hole, becoming a part of it. No getting "dumped" anywhere.

Correct. I meant to say "wormhole". A wormhole is a black hole with a white hole as an exit.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
A black hole doesn't have an "exit". It is an immensely small, incredibly dense compression of an enormous amount of matter that has collapsed upon itself, creating an irresistible gravitational pull.

Gladiator would be killed when his body is ripped apart as he is being pulled into the black hole, becoming a part of it. No getting "dumped" anywhere.

well a blackhole should suck Magneto also no??

that's it's not blackhole , it;s black shit.

and Gladiator can escape a blackhole.

gladiator cant escape a blackhole nothing can. sides magneto is the one creating a blackhole,im sure he is more then able to control it.

Originally posted by savagerampage
gladiator cant escape a blackhole nothing can. sides magneto is the one creating a blackhole,im sure he is more then able to control it.

Just your assumption. If anyone's going to be sucked in, it's Magneto. Gladiator's still faster and stronger than Magneto.



Oh please, aren't you the one who tried to argue that Magneto's fast enough to react to lightspeed since he's able to block Cyclops' optic beam (the optic beam being lightspeed).

Gladiator speedblitz Ego; he pounded Masterson and flew behind him and slugged him again. Masterson was getting his ass kicked. The only time he got a dropped on Kallark was when Gladiator was standing talking down to him - Masterson used Mjlnornir to pull Avenger's Living Lightning to hit Gladiator. How could he react to something that's behind him? Are you saying Gladiator had eyes in the back of his head and saw LL? Masteron beat Gladiator down only after LL had stunned him.



It doesn't take much to slam into Magneto at lightspeed. Who needs to fight Magneto at lightspeed at all when all you need is to slam you above Class 100 strength self at lightspeed at Magneto. And all that requires is velocity + lightspeed flight, which Kallark can easily do. He did that against Ego, hitting the planet numerous times.



? Yeah, speedsters have been tag before. That doesn't mean they don't have lightspeed reaction. Quick Silver complains about how the world moves at such a slow pace for it; how it bores him because of so. He's fricken fast and has done things that require reactions just as fast. Flash and Superman can do the same sh!t. Furthermore, they can operate at normal levels. Superman, Flash, Quick Silver, and Gladiator have done things and reacted at lightspeed before. I don't see what you trying to argue cause they've all been tagged.




? It doesn't take much for him to slam into Magneto and break Magnus force field.



What? That Gladiator has fought at superspeed?



Proven? From what? Did Thor hit Magneto with Class 100 at lightspeed? Thor ain't even as fast as Quick Silver. So Thor's hit ain't on Gladiator's level. When Thor smashes a planet with his hammer or fist - then come back and talk to me.



When has Gladiator been vulnerable to mind-control? Radiation? How's Magneto going to do that? Now your just making things up. You don't even know if Magneto can even mind control an alien. And speedblitz isn't off the table. Where you got this idea I can only speculate it come from the same place you got your other nutty ideas.




When was that? And Thor's godblast doesn't prove he has the strength to smash a planet. And when Thor pulls out a godblast on Magneto and Erik's shields hold - then you'd have an argument.



...because we all know Gladiator is a killer. That was crapping writing right there. In the same issue, moments later he held Cannonball back because he didn't want Sam wondering into such danger.

"gladiator cant escape a blackhole nothing can"

In the galactus the devourer limited series the silver surfer escaped a black hole.

Also cyclops optic blasts dont travel at lightspeed. They are beams of pure force and travel at nowhere near lightspeed. Those facts hav always been made quite clear in the comics

Yes, but it never said anything about this happening at lightspeed. Just that he did it really fast. We have no idea how fast that is...Masterson is just a human, ANYTHING could be too fast for him. And none of this shows Gladiator's ability to act before someone can think. It also shows that Gladiator's own reaction ability is questionable. Cannonball blasted away and behind him before Gladiator could react. He did it AGAIN, when he shifted momentum, driving Gladiator to the ground. Gambit outmaneuvered Gladiator, slipping between his legs and throwing his cape over his head. This isn't the work of someone with superhuman reaction time.

So my original point still stands.

It makes sense, actually - Gladiator's powers are psionic. Without them, he has none of these powers. He *activates* superspeed psionically, just as strength, flight, invulnerability, etc are all functions of conscious effort. In the time it would take for Gladiator to psionically tell himself to speedblitz Magneto, Magneto would tell Gladiator to punch himself to death instead.



Tsk, tsk...I thought you might be aware of the six human senses, since they cover it in science schoolbooks - Sight, smell, taste, hearing, touch and orientation. Perhaps you only read the older editions that defined five senses. Pay attention to the last one...it's the one that allows you to feel when somebody is approaching behind you. It's orientation. If Gladiator had superhuman reaction time, he would have used his sense of orientation to see that someone was closing in behind him and he would have gotten out of the way.



There's another point to this - flying at lightspeed towards an opponent on a set battlefield won't make much of a difference anyway. The difference in speed between light, sound, and 1000MPH over a distance of mere meters is negligible. Quicksilver, Flash, Surfer and Gladiator would run one mile at basically the same time. In close quarters, lightspeed isn't all that useful. If Magneto could react to Quicksilver and Northstar, there's no reason he couldn't react to Gladiator in the same space.

Additionally, the velocity and momentum generated from running at lightspeed in close quarters is also meaningless. Gladiator won't get any additional pop from a lightspeed attack unless he starts from hundreds of miles away. And I don't buy for a second your ridiculous little notion that Gladiator could do more damage to Magneto's shield in half a second than Thor could do after pounding over and over or GALACTUS was able to do with a blast. Remember, since Magneto's shield has never been broken, we don't know the upper limit of its tolerance. He was able to restrain the HULK indefinitely with a forcefield. It took the combined efforts of Hulk, Strange, Namor and Xavier to disable it...and that was only because Magneto was miles away doing something else and wasn't maintaining it. I seriously doubt Gladiator could do better than people like that in half a second. And remember, half a second is all Gladiator would have before Magneto just shuts down his mind or radiates him.



No, that Gladiator has been out-reacted by people without superspeed.



In JIM, Thor was able, with one blow, to smash a planet to its core, exposing the core and causing volcanoes to ignite. That's AT LEAST on the same level of Gladiator hitting Ego. Did Gladiator smash Ego to his core in one blow? Nope. And Ego is small, by planetary standards. So yes, their strength is comparable, and most would agree that Thor is stronger.

Didn't help him against Magneto, though.



?????
See, I'm sorry, I guess I was arguing under the assumption that you read anything with Gladiator in it. My mistake. If you had, you'd know that Gladiator gets mind-controlled like a punk...OFTEN. He's been mind-controlled by Skrulls, mind-controlled by Xavier, mind-controlled by Cassandra Nova, etc.. He's PRONE to it.



um...the man controls electromagnetic energy. electromagnetic energy includes all energy across that spectrum - including several types of radiation. That was how he was able to put down the Hulk and how he was able to break out of a plastic prison - he melted it with microwaves. He created X-rays to create an on-the-fly MRI of Shola.



Examples above say otherwise.



He's a humanoid who's been mind-controlled several times in the past. Absolutely no reason why he couldn't.




So you alternate between explaining away how I misread the issue and calling it crappy writing, huh? Well, let's clear up the first...I didn't misread the issue or misinterpret anything. Gladiator CLEARLY tried to kill Cannonball and failed. The quote, "Impossible! That was my most powerful blow. And yet...you live?" MUST put any doubt about that to rest. As for the second - you can selectively dismiss showings you don't like as crappy writing if you want to. You do that with Gladiator trying to kill Cannonball and getting punked for his efforts, and I'll do that with Gladiator fighting at 100 times the speed of light. See how that works? Nice and simple...

if magneto can create a blackhole im sure he can control it, much like xorn.

Originally posted by demigawd
Yes, but it never said anything about this happening at lightspeed. Just that he did it really fast. We have no idea how fast that is...Masterson is just a human, ANYTHING could be too fast for him. And none of this shows Gladiator's ability to act before someone can think. It also shows that Gladiator's own reaction ability is questionable.

And Magneto is a human? Masterson had Thor's powers.



? Based on what? Both think, Gladiator would slam into him before Magneto can even try something like that, not saying that Magnus would be able to.



Yeah, and how many times have you seen Superman aware of his surroundings and react to it? That still does mean he can operate at lightspeed. Flash, Quick Silver, and Gladiator all the same. Orientation? Bwahahaha, maybe you should to that to the writters 'cause they obviously had the "old edition." Otherwise, why would speedster get tagged? Especially beings with super sense like Superman, Gladiator, Hyperion, Supreme, etc. should have this. Yet, how many have detect people with this sixth sense you bring up? They detected people - but with their other super sense. So guess what? They don't have orientation as a sense - the writters don't take that into account.

Surfer has Cosmic Awareness, he's been tagged before. What's your point? It doesn't mean any of them can't operate at super speed level.



?Neither Hulk nor Namor is as strong as Gladiator. Just cause his shield has never been broke - it doesn't mean it can't. Why are you assuming Gladiator's strength is just on Hulk or Thor's level?



So has every other speedster. Doesn't mean they can't operate at superspeed level?





Um, that's nice. Now give me an issue number.

Ego is small? Where'd you get that? He did smash Ego to pieces, he smashed a small planet to pieces.



Um, that's nice. Now how's about when? Skrulls? What did the Skrull's use? The Skrull has an entire Empire; there tech is as advance as anybody. Xavier and Cassandra Nova, so Magneto is a telepath now is he? Or can control on the level or Xavier or Cassandra.



Hahahahaha, electromagnetism. So now Magneto can create radiation? And the specific kind of radiation that Gladiator is weak too? And probably in less the time it takes for Gladiator to move at lightspeed or the blast from Cyclyops visor.



Nope, just the part where he tried to kill Cannonball. Magneto is more of a cold blooded murderer than Gladiator. His mission wasn't to kill Cannonball and wasn't even trying his best, but all of a sudden he gets pissed and tries to kill Cannonball?

I guess that's not fast at all.

Didn't they fight before? Gladiator killed somebody and Magento got made or something like that. What happened?