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these guys
http://jburri2999.tripod.com/CostumeSpideyBagleyTall.gifhttp://www.samruby.com/Heroes/ScarletSpider/ScarletLong.gif
against these guys
http://www.tegneserieguiden.net/usa/daredevil/daredevil.jpghttp://www.diamondcomics.com/news/2000/03_20_00/wolverine_shi1.jpghttp://total-fun.tripod.com/TFBattles/batman.jpghttp://total-fun.tripod.com/TFBattles/captainamerica.jpg

inspired by Matches Malones thread....... thumbsup

whadaya think?......... no prep time, fighting in New York city center, they all have their regular weapons and abilities

all are fighting to their full potential (of their normal abilities.... no Captain Universe or any other BS)

whistling

Spiderman and his clone can take cap,daredevil and batman with ease. Wolverine would be the only problem but they can take him down. Spiderman by himself can take our those three and give wolverine a great fight. He gets his clone to help him. The Spider men take this fight.

well i thought in that other thread "spidey v's cap/wolvy/dd" that Spidey would win but a lot of argument went on....... i'm just seeing what people think now that it's 4 V 2 instead of 3 V 1

Scoobles, I appreciate the tribute to my thread.

Batman doesn't bring much to the table in a non-prep fight. Much like the good Captain and Daredevil, he is just somebody that Spiderman can knock out with one hit. Also, you gave Spiderman a clone partner. I am voting on the pair to have a easy victory.

No way! They will have no chance of surviving.

Yeah, Bats no prep isn't as much of a factor as Peter's clone. And it's in New York. Peter blindfolds himself to make the fight more of a challenge. They still win.

-DM

ummmm. batman just bested friggin amazo (no prep time) if that ain't bringing much to the table I don't know what is. Adding batman to this fight gives the trio team an entirely new level. using the best of his abilities batman should be able to use knockout gas on 1 of the spideys with ease then it's a 4 on 1. good luck parker.

Originally posted by jinzin
ummmm. batman just bested friggin amazo (no prep time) if that ain't bringing much to the table I don't know what is. Adding batman to this fight gives the trio team an entirely new level. using the best of his abilities batman should be able to use knockout gas on 1 of the spideys with ease then it's a 4 on 1. good luck parker.

Both spider man have spider sense and would avoid any gas, batarangs or other "toys" that batman has. Don't forget team spider can both shoot webbing which would stop everybody. They are strong enough to brake out. lol

This is a stupid thread. DareDevil vs. Spider-man alone is better. Batman vs. Spider-man is better. Togethe Batman and DareDevil would be an even enough fight for the fagot and clone warrior.

exactly, then you add in wolvie and cap.....this is gonna get ugly. Batman, even without prep time has access to his vehicles, it's like even IF by some god given miracle team spidey was able to hold their own, then it would turn into a 6 on two. The batpobile and the bat jet and the quadra team vs. the spidey's. and how is spidey's spider sense going to help him avoid gas that explodes around him? the best he can do is run away. Adding 2 tacticians to this fight against the spidey's like cap and bats and well this will be just sad.

woah, i think if there's no prep time, then its a given that there are is also no extra help, including vehicles. one spidey could take wolverine, while the other takes out bats, cap, and dd... this really isnt that great of a fight.

Originally posted by Cosmo Kramer
This is a stupid thread. DareDevil vs. Spider-man alone is better. Batman vs. Spider-man is better. Togethe Batman and DareDevil would be an even enough fight for the fagot and clone warrior.

Hey, Cosmo, aren't you a Daredevil fanboy?

A yes or no will be sufficient.

how does no prep time stop batman from using his homeing device to get his car and jet on the battlefeild? it doesn't, spidey has a hard enough time fighting anyone one of these guys alon, all together with batman's resources and cap's leadership, the spideys' are toast.

any of you guys remember Scarlet's paralysis stingers and impact webbing?...... one hit from either of those would take out any of these guys (except the stingers wouldn't take out Wolverine)

EDIT: um, the dardevil pic doesn't seem to be coming up anymore...... can you see it?

I say it could go either way.
They have to get hit by the stingers first.
Daredevil is prettys agile and fast, but he can be hit more easliy.
Cap has more experience and is way smarter than that and fights defensively so he is gonna be tough,plus he is still capcble of rendering spiderman or clone unconscious with a barrage of hard punches in the right spot. Wolverine will not be effected by any thing other than brute physical force so they will have their hands full tagging him upside the head. If he gets a good swipe or two, its lights out permantly for both of them. Meanwhile Cap is still in this fight too. So spiderman and friend will have to go all out and might still lose.

Maybe a draw, it could go either way.
I try to never be one sided on versu issues cause the under dog can sometimes still win.


eace:

Originally posted by jplatinum
Cap has more experience and is way smarter than that and fights defensively so he is gonna be tough,plus he is still capcble of rendering spiderman or clone unconscious with a barrage of hard punches in the right spot.

i don't think Cap can manage a "barrage of hard punches" to someone much faster than he is and who has a danger sense...... he may be able to get a couple landed.... probably glancing blows, but wouldn't be able to land multiple shots in a row

Originally posted by jplatinum
Wolverine will not be effected by any thing other than brute physical force so they will have their hands full tagging him upside the head.

not true, wolverine can be incapacitated without too much difficulty through the use of webbing

i think cap and wolverine could take them alone so with the brains and strategy of batman and the extra help and senses of daredevil, the spiders are gonna get squashed

Originally posted by armandovalles
i think cap and wolverine could take them alone

i could not possibly agree with you less......... i could try........ but i don't think it'd be possible to lessen the amount that i agree with you

Same here. The two Spider-Men together : that's a very dangerous combination.

If they want, they can knock down the Hulk.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Same here.

i agree with the fact that you agreed with me

One Spidey is easily Bat's, Cap's, DD's, and Wolvies physical superior.

Add his clone and the fight becomes two blurs K.Oing Bats, DD, Cap, and Wolvie. Feats that take all of five maybe six seconds.

Originally posted by jplatinum
I say it could go either way.
They have to get hit by the stingers first.
Daredevil is prettys agile and fast, but he can be hit more easliy.
Cap has more experience and is way smarter than that and fights defensively so he is gonna be tough,plus he is still capcble of rendering spiderman or clone unconscious with a barrage of hard punches in the right spot. Wolverine will not be effected by any thing other than brute physical force so they will have their hands full tagging him upside the head. If he gets a good swipe or two, its lights out permantly for both of them. Meanwhile Cap is still in this fight too. So spiderman and friend will have to go all out and might still lose.

Maybe a draw, it could go either way.
I try to never be one sided on versu issues cause the under dog can sometimes still win.


eace:
Spidey's taken alot worse than a barrage of hard punches from any peak human, a WHOLE lot worse. There's no way Cap's gonna KO Spidey or his clone without the help of his shield (and it would take more than one shot to pull this off), and we all know how "easy" it is to hit Spidey with a weapon. I mean, even Ben Reily hurt his hand hitting Pete in a fight, and Scorpion said punching Spidey was like punching a stone wall, and let's not forget how Spidey has regularly traded punches with the likes of Green Goblin and taken shots from the tentacles of Doc Ock. Nuh-uh, if Cap or the other members of his team want any chance of winning a fight against the team of Pete and Ben, they'd have to work out something strategically (which won't help much if at all seeing that both Spider-Men's spider senses allows them to compensate with almost any oncoming attack).

And Wolvie could be trapped by webbing, not that Spidey nor his clone would need it, they could end the fight with a power shot to Wolvie's skull at the expense of a broken hand, the result: Wolvie's out via KO.
Not to mention that even if it took awhile for this to happen, I doubt that he'd be able to land one swipe if Spidey fouight smart and put those reflexes of his to work. And of course, let's not forget Ben, he's got the strength, speed, agility, etc. needed to take out the peak humans while letting his more experienced partner handle the only guy out there possible of presenting a challenge ( I'm talking about Wolvie, by the way).

Originally posted by armandovalles
i think cap and wolverine could take them alone so with the brains and strategy of batman and the extra help and senses of daredevil, the spiders are gonna get squashed
I agree.

Originally posted by StrawNilla
One Spidey is easily Bat's, Cap's, DD's, and Wolvies physical superior.

Add his clone and the fight becomes two blurs K.Oing Bats, DD, Cap, and Wolvie. Feats that take all of five maybe six seconds.

I agree.

dude wolvie can "knock the hulk down" by himself. Spidey isn't immune to pressure points by cap, or getting tangled up by daredevil, or getting cut by wolvie. His spider sense is impressive sometimes,,,,but you blow it way out of proportion, He's been hit by peeps with street speed hundreds if not thousands of times. Any one of these guys would give spidey trouble on they're own. esp now that bats is on the feild, with tear gas, knock out gas, nets, grappling hooks, lil flame thrower dealies, and a vast array of other weapons and such in that belt, he's no pushover. He uses his homing device for his vehicles (and he doesn't have just one car, he has tons) this could potentially turn into two spideys vs. 4 super heroes and 10 to 20 batmobiles + the batwing. I could care less if hitting spidey is like hitting a brick wall to one character. Cap america knocked spidey on his arse, spider sense or no. and those stingers, couldn't take out brock after he was fatigued with a direct hit to the noggin how are they gonna work on cap, wolvie or bats,,,,,even if they do hit their targets, by some miracle.

has Batman EVER used 10-20 batmobiles at once?

and the only reason the stingers were less effective against Brock was the symbiotes healing properties...... they take out other guys no prob..... Wolverine would be the only one here who could resist them

Batman and Captain America on the same team is too much for anyone to defeat.

God agrees.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Batman and Captain America on the same team is too much for anyone to defeat.

God agrees.

God needs to get his a$$ down to the comic shop and read up on the characters before he offers his Batman fanboy opinion

You know what's funny.
I have read recently some comix like Infinity Wars, Avengers and some crossover comix and it's like the authors acknowledge that SM as good as he is has people on his level who could probably take him out.
I mean to sit there and say Bat's don't bring anything to a fight is insulting. I mean seriously!!!
To say Cap, DD AND LOGAN are not up to SM's caliber is just ridiculous.
You guys are getting offensive here. I hate those kinda threads.
I mean try to be real for a minute. I MEAN saying that SM might get his ass handed to him by these guys doesn't mean that you are being disloyal to the character. It shows that you understand the character and his limitations. I mean arguing these pointless debates really get to me!!

Originally posted by LordFear
You know what's funny.
I have read recently some comix like Infinity Wars, Avengers and some crossover comix and it's like the authors acknowledge that SM as good as he is has people on his level who could probably take him out.
I mean to sit there and say Bat's don't bring anything to a fight is insulting. I mean seriously!!!
To say Cap, DD AND LOGAN are not up to SM's caliber is just ridiculous.
You guys are getting offensive here. I hate those kinda threads.
I mean try to be real for a minute. I MEAN saying that SM might get his ass handed to him by these guys doesn't mean that you are being disloyal to the character. It shows that you understand the character and his limitations. I mean arguing these pointless debates really get to me!!
Unless the people on Spidey's "level" by your standards have superhuman strength, speed, agility, equilibrium, durability, pre-cog, etc. they are NOT on Spidey's level.

What I can't seem to understand about the fans of those comic book characters that have martial arts training and peak human conditioning is how they automatically expect for them to have some sort of edge over Spidey. I can pretty much say with GREAT confidence in the statement that no amount of prep time or special tactics can quite match pre cognition or being aware of something about to happen BEFORE it happens.

I say that Cap, DD, and Logan are not up to Spidey's calibur because of A) the popularity of Spidey's character in the general media (those who do not read comics) and B) physically they just DO NOT stack up.

Let's take it to the stats starting with Spidey/Cap:

Spidey-SUPERHUMAN
Cap-PEAK human

Abilites:

Spidey-superhuman strength, speed, agility, equilibrium, reflexes, durability, endurance, leaping ability, pre-cog, and adherence to most surfaces, not to mention gifted level intelligence and the adrenaline Spidey often uses in a rage to pull out his TRUE Spider strength waaaayyy above the traditional ten ton marking
Cap-peak human strength, above Olympian-level speed, agility, leaping ability, endurance, tactician skills, and, um, that's about it

Experience:

Spidey-40+years
Cap-60+years

Final score:

Spidey-2
Cap-1 (on account of experience)

There's no need for a final analysis here....unless you request one.

Time to compare the stats of Spidey/Wolvie:

Spidey-SUPERHUMAN
Wolvie-MUTANT (though he is conditioned at the level of a peak human)

Abilities:

Spidey-SUPERHUMAN strength, speed, agility, equilibrium, durability, leaping ability, reflexes, endurance, pre-cog, and adherence to most surfaces, not to mention gifted level intelligence and the adrenaline Spidey uses to pull out his TRUE Spider strength waaayy above the traditional ten ton marking
Wolvie-PEAK human strength, Olympian level speed or above, Olympian level agility, superhuman endurance, an accelerated healing factor, and claws

Experience:

Spidey-40+years
Wolvie-30+years

Final score:

Spidey-3
Wolvie-0

Hey, you can try and pull up something to give Wolvie a chance of scoring. But an accelerated healing factor can't protect you from a punch chock full of concussion force, not to mention that when your brain is getting knocked around against the front and back ends of an adamantium layered skull that you're nowhere near guaranteed to still be standing and hanging onto conciousness without natural superhuman type durability, which Wolvie does not have (Note that I did say natural durability without the assist of a healing factor).

Time to compare the stats of Spidey/DD:

Spidey-SUPERHUMAN
DD-PEAK human

Abilites:

Spidey-SUPERHUMAN strength, speed, agility, durability, equilibrium, leaping ability, reflexes, endurance, pre-cog, and adherence to most surafaces, not to mention gifted level intelligence and the adrenaline Spidey uses to pull out his TRUE Spider strength waaayy above the traditional ten ton marking
DD-PEAK human strength, Olympian level speed, agility, endurance, leaping ability, and superhuman senses

Experience:

Spidey-40+years
DD-30+years

Final score:

Spidey-3
DD-0

DD's senses only allow DD to hear an occurance or attack exceptionally above the level of that of a human, he can't sense it happening beforehand as Spidey could. Not to mention that senses can't assist reflexes, and the sound of an attack giving off a radar just allows him to make out an oncoming attack, it just allows him to see it. And seeing that Spidey dominates the guy much more than twenty times over whether the battle goes aerial or on the ground his senses won't allow to dodge much less block most if not some of Spidey's speed attacks, maybe less. And let's just not to get into the details of what would happen once a powershot connected courtesy of Spidey to pretty much any part of DD.

what strawnilla doesn't want to acknowledge are some other stats

Spiderman /captain america-the cap put spidey on his ass with ease, and on top of that wasn't even really impressed with spidey in the least.

spiderman/dare devil- DD has put up more than a few decent bouts against spidey on hiw own.

spiderman/ wolverine- wolverine scared spidey and spiderman gave wolverine everything he had, while wolverine was still holding back,even then, wolverine stalemated him

spiderman/batman- batman has beaten carnage on his own, something spidey has yet to accomplish.

People don't wanna acknowledge that jinzin. They believe that SM and co could mop the floor with practically anybody because he is SM.
Let me tell you something about the sixth sense deal. It's not all it's cracked up to be and SM can still get his ass handed to him regardless. Again people his sense doesn't forwarn him b4 the battle as to what's gonna happen. It tells him that seconds,Seconds before the event occurs. How SM reacts to that danger alert is based on his condition at the time of the danger. Stop thinking that because he has spidey senses it can guide him through a COMBINED ATTACK of DD, Logan and Cap, that's senseless. These guys are not pushovers and add Bat's to the equation, you gotta be joking. Bat's on his own has done way too much for people to sleep on his skills and as well as the others.
This isn't a cosmic entity that we are talking about here. It's SM and he is very human!!!

well......... Scarlet Spider is about the only guy to get a decisive solo win over Venom (without additional weapons or pure luck) ever.......... other than guys way out of his league like the Juggernaut

Cap, DD or even Wolverine couldn't do that

Well I have never seen Venom locked in battle or chasing Logan, Cap, or DD.
Furthermore DD might get killed pretty quickly.
Now the other two, if they play their cards right, they might survive.
I definetly can see Logan surviving an assault by Venom

Scarlet Spider got his win, but I highly doubt he could repeat that act.

Based on their fight, there is no reason to believe Venom wouldn't rip him to shreds 9 out of 10 fights. The authors were clearly trying to make a point that Reilly isn't just some Peter Parker knock off.

i think he did better against Venom because, unlike Peter, Ben's spider sense does warn him about the symbiote's attacks

Originally posted by jinzin
what strawnilla doesn't want to acknowledge are some other stats

Spiderman /captain america-the cap put spidey on his ass with ease, and on top of that wasn't even really impressed with spidey in the least.

spiderman/dare devil- DD has put up more than a few decent bouts against spidey on hiw own.

spiderman/ wolverine- wolverine scared spidey and spiderman gave wolverine everything he had, while wolverine was still holding back,even then, wolverine stalemated him

spiderman/batman- batman has beaten carnage on his own, something spidey has yet to accomplish.
Read the stats and you'll realize the ridicoulousness of Cap or DD holding their own against Spidey at any emotional level above calm. Even Wolvie couldn't protect himself long before getting tagged by a power punch to the skull courtesy of Spidey, resulting in a KO. And if (I should say since) Spidey doesn't fear Venom or Carnage, guys that individually present more of a threat to Spidey than Wolvie could in pretty much any scenario, why should he then fear Wolvie? Screw that nonsense.

And please stop posting my name, I mean, why not try actually replying to my post first?

I know the facts, I don't need a couple of obvious misinterpretations of Spidey's power when compared to these guys (both physically and mentally judging by how Spidey is just standing in one spot and allowing these guys to tag him) to tell me otherwise. If you're not going to listen to reason then I'm through with this, try mailing your next post if you want another reply out of me.

Originally posted by LordFear
People don't wanna acknowledge that jinzin. They believe that SM and co could mop the floor with practically anybody because he is SM.
Let me tell you something about the sixth sense deal. It's not all it's cracked up to be and SM can still get his ass handed to him regardless. Again people his sense doesn't forwarn him b4 the battle as to what's gonna happen. It tells him that seconds,Seconds before the event occurs. How SM reacts to that danger alert is based on his condition at the time of the danger. Stop thinking that because he has spidey senses it can guide him through a COMBINED ATTACK of DD, Logan and Cap, that's senseless. These guys are not pushovers and add Bat's to the equation, you gotta be joking. Bat's on his own has done way too much for people to sleep on his skills and as well as the others.
This isn't a cosmic entity that we are talking about here. It's SM and he is very human!!!
Spidey is waayyy faster than the opposed and could easily leap over the heads of DD, Logan, and Cap even as they try and execute a combined attack.

Spidey isn't very human, heck, I'd say it's debatable now whether he's even half-human anymore thanks to the recent additions to his laundry list of powers such: a strength upgrade, the ability to telepathically communicate with insects, and organic webbing. No, to say that someone like Spidey is very human is a sad show of judgement.

But, hey, maybe it's not impossible, I suppose we can all adhere to most surfaces, demolish buildings with our bare hands, still feel okay after being thrown through a brick wall and denting steel when thrown into it, sense oncoming attacks before they come, leap over multiple building stories and so on.....man, the things some people will say to bring a guy like Spidey physically down to Cap's, DD's, Wolvie's, and Batman's level.

Originally posted by StrawNilla
Spidey is waayyy faster than the opposed and could easily leap over the heads of DD, Logan, and Cap even as they try and execute a combined attack.

Spidey isn't very human, heck, I'd say it's debatable now whether he's even half-human anymore thanks to the recent additions to his laundry list of powers such: a strength upgrade, the ability to telepathically communicate with insects, and organic webbing. No, to say that someone like Spidey is very human is a sad show of judgement.

But, hey, maybe it's not impossible, I suppose we can all adhere to most surfaces, demolish buildings with our bare hands, still feel okay after being thrown through a brick wall and denting steel when thrown into it, sense oncoming attacks before they come, leap over multiple building stories and so on.....man, the things some people will say to bring a guy like Spidey physically down to Cap's, DD's, Wolvie's, and Batman's level.

woah, i'm rooting for spidey too... but when did he get organic webbing and the bug-talk???

Originally posted by Kontraz
woah, i'm rooting for spidey too... but when did he get organic webbing and the bug-talk???
I know, it's crazy but it happened back in Spec. Spider-Man during the storyline with the Queen.

Supposedly, he gave birth to himself and then...BOOM! Organic webbing, bug talk, and strength uprgrades all around!

we're supposed to disregard spidey getting stalemated by three of these four guys, yet this ridiculous crap is supposed to be connon? hahahaha! I'm only saying this,,,,,,I'll concede if you will.

Anyway's yes scarlet got a victory of the v-man,,,,,but it was out of extreeeeeeeeeem amounts of luck.....When venom knew what he was dealing with the second time around, and was aware of the new weapons that scarlet was using, he scared and nearly beat the bejesus outa ben in venom: along came a spider.

But as a side note, In Venom:the run story arc. Wolvie held his own against a seriously beafed up venom, which wasn't reliant on it's host.
Also supposedly at some point (I'm not sure in what comic this happened,,,,but I took it from a series of cards that follows wolverines entire comic book life up until the early 90's but long before his adamantium was removed all the other events in the set are in continuity as ar as I can tell, yet I can't find this book) wolverine fought venom in a south american jungle......wolverine held his own until someone attacked Jubilee who happened to be around and kidnapped her, venom used the moment to capitalize and impale wolvie.

Also, Daredevil fought with venom and using his own enhanced senses, was able to avoid basically everything venom was throwing at him while hitting him in pressure spots. It did little more than piss venom off, but DD seemed conifident enough that he could dance around venom all night if he had to.

If bat's can spar with wonderwoman without having to resort to even using his devises or belt, spiderman should be about as scary as an english cow. Also in Bat's belt,,,I forgot are friggin bombs,,,,,what happens when bats starts lobbing a bunch of (basically) grenades at spidey that explode on impact? he doesn't even have to hit spidey, he can just hit the ground next to spidey and let the explosions take care of the rest. DON'T underestimate the batman!

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Scarlet Spider got his win, but I highly doubt he could repeat that act.

Based on their fight, there is no reason to believe Venom wouldn't rip him to shreds 9 out of 10 fights. The authors were clearly trying to make a point that Reilly isn't just some Peter Parker knock off.
True.

yeah Spiderman's "brother" had the goods..god rest his web swinging cloned soul. ugh

Originally posted by Kontraz
woah, i'm rooting for spidey too... but when did he get organic webbing and the bug-talk???

Spider-Man dissasembled....... organic webs, bug talk....... possibly some kind of telepathy insects and other bugs........ apparently (according to that story) 1/3 of the human population has the "insect gene" ....... he may or may not be able to read these people's minds

Originally posted by jinzin
But as a side note, In Venom:the run story arc. Wolvie held his own against a seriously beafed up venom, which wasn't reliant on it's host.
Also supposedly at some point (I'm not sure in what comic this happened,,,,but I took it from a series of cards that follows wolverines entire comic book life up until the early 90's but long before his adamantium was removed all the other events in the set are in continuity as ar as I can tell, yet I can't find this book) wolverine fought venom in a south american jungle......wolverine held his own until someone attacked Jubilee who happened to be around and kidnapped her, venom used the moment to capitalize and impale wolvie.


Wolverine held his own against the symbiote....not Venom. And no one can say how beefed up it was because it was only the symbiote. Wolverine had to slice and dice like a mad man just to keep it off him, but it's not like the symbiote was punching and kicking Wolvie.

In that same story arc Wolverine was nuked down to his skeleton and completely healed in the next panel.

Venom would eat Wolverine for breakfast anyday of the week.

i think it's safe to assume that the symbiote was more powerful than it's been in a long time. throughout that series that symbiote stood up to multitudes of punishment and explosions and such that would have rendered eddie down and out....or at least very injured. Anyway's i think the sybiote was slightly more dangerous due to the fact that it wasn't reliant on it's host,,,,,eddie can get stabbed, but fighting just the symbiote....well you might as well be fighting air.
And i don't care if wolvie survived a nuke......is it ridiculous (beyond just bad) writing? Hell yes! and i realize that,,,,,but seccret wars is full of all sorts of goofy nonsensical B.S. but that don't stop every spiderman fan from bringin it up in an SM thread does it?
besides wolvie was sporting his super pants, didn't you see those things? THEY survived a fight with venom, a Nuke, and a plasma explosion, without shredding one tear.....if this was wolvie/w superpants,,,,,it wouldn't even be a contest.

The symbiote is weaker when it is not bonded with it's host....that's why the symbiote bonds with it's host in the first place.

Venom has taken a multitude of punishment equal to the amount of punishment the symbiote alone took. The symbiote doesn't have fighting skills, it doesn't have Venom's quickness, nor did it have a means of creating something hard like a fist.

What happened in Secret Wars between Spiderman and the X-men was completely legit. No one on the team they assembled could touch him in such close quarters. Cyclops didn't shoot, Storm couldn't use her powers. It was basically Wolverine, Cyclops, and Nightcrawler lunging and missing. Had Spiderman took a punch square in the jaw from Colossus and remain unfazed....then I would consider it crap.

Wolverine held his own against Venom in a mini with Nightmare and again in Venom - Tooth and Claw. They are displayed as being pretty equal in their fights.

Ok we have the secret war example on the one side and then hundreds of examples of Spider-man getting hit by street level heros on the other side. I'm thinking the later holds more weight.

It doesn't hold more weight at all. Spiderman NEVER gets hit by run of the mill crooks like you're making him sound. He regularly beats the crap out of them and never ever gets touched.

The Punisher, the Kingpin, and Craven have all been regulars in Spiderman comics throughout history. These characters have proven themselves to be above the normal "street" hoodlums that you're using as your example.

I'll take the thousands of times Spiderman has dodged bullets, arrows, lasers, and general lethal threats with his physical ability over the handful of times Spiderman has been hit by a street level character anyday.

Originally posted by jinzin
DON'T underestimate the batman!
Nope. But don't overestimate him either.

(Now somebody will bash me for saying such a blasphemous thing, and will ask me if I actually have read a Batman comic in my life, and will end with saying something like : Batman is THE man, he is the Bat, he is the Darkness and so on...)

Originally posted by who?-kid
Batman is THE man, he is the Bat, he is the Darkness and so on...)

he's the Darkness??........ music


i believe in no man called Bat,
just listen to the beating on his face,
There's no chance he could win it now,
He'll be crippled when the sun goes down,
I believe in no man called Baaa-aaaaat,
ooooooooohhh


batmandance

lol

Originally posted by Scoobless
he's the Darkness??........ music


i believe in no man called Bat,
just listen to the beating on his face,
There's no chance he could win it now,
He'll be crippled when the sun goes down,
I believe in no man called Baaa-aaaaat,
ooooooooohhh

YOUR DAFT!!!!

Who here can actually define "peak" human?

All the "peak" humans have taken beatings from far stronger opponents than a class-10. I have a Spiderman/Captain America comic where Batroc and some alien monster from the "dark dimension" team up against Spidey and Cap. The monster hits Spidey and Spidey says he's never been hit so hard before in his life. Then Captain America solos the monster while Spidey takes on Batroc.

I've also seen all of these characters go against opponents who are faster than what people believe to be "peak" human, yet they don't move in "slow motion" by comparison.


Until anyone can define a limitation of a peak human....I think we should stop using the term.

agreed about the peak thing LINK. LOL but it might put the boards into chaos....without levels for comparison (i.e. dbz) people will actually have to logically think out reasons why their characters would win. lol.

Anyways I think that the symbiote thing is debatable. I mean technically shouldn't have the severed tongue portion just died off on it's own? Anyway's in that series that symbiote didn't really need a host per say.....it needed hosts only as a source of food. Hell. Venom's symbiote is viewed as insane by allthe other symbiotes due to the fact that it wants to bond at such a level that it perceives this "emotion" as a need. (although I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, I'm just making the point that the symbiote really isn't weaker without it's host....but it does need hosts for food.) venom isn't faster than a speeding bullet the symbiote was. YOu can hurt brock by gutting him....you can't do the same to a symbiote. Like I said you might as well be fighting air. I'd rather be hit by something hard like a fist than wrapped up in a literal current of symbiote. Just by comparison the sybiote was easily AS dangerous if not more. it was even clever like brock on he battle feild.

That aside this is getting way off topic. Wolverine held hs own against a beefed up symbiote at least. THAT aside, We're not trying to imply that spiderman would be gettin hit by a bunch of street thugs though it has happened too (i.e. the enforcers) we just think that there are faaaaaaarrrrr too many characters at street level fighting speeds that have hit spidey in the face and then some. This is not just a handful amount either it's happened hundreds upon hundreds of times. Spidey got his big red ass handed to him by vulture in close quarters combat.....is this laughable? yes, I would agree with that (>smirks&lt but when people start treating his spidersence like some form of telepathy it just gets ridiculous. Spidey's been surprised before, despite his spidersense and the fact that he dodges bullets,,,,which is nearly irrelevent since the rest of the crew dodges said bullets as well.

Even in this 4 on 2 the spidey's are just against the odds to heavily here. they may not be outclassed per say but overwhelming numbers is going to do the job on em.

Originally posted by jinzin
Even in this 4 on 2 the spidey's are just against the odds to heavily here. they may not be outclassed per say but overwhelming numbers is going to do the job on em.

"overwhelming numbers"?????..... you have heard of the sinister six......

Spider-man has taken out larger numbers of powered foes than this before..... and this time there are two of them....... these two beat the hell out of Carnage with no "prep time" (and without webs...... i think) ...... i doubt the four heroes on the "peak" team could take him down between them without additional weapons

they had venom's help.......carnage wasn't......himself.
and finally, batman took down carnage by himself already. so what's your point?

Originally posted by jinzin
they had venom's help.......carnage wasn't......himself.
and finally, batman took down carnage by himself already. so what's your point?

Venom's help??? you must be thinking of a different fight..... i'm talking about when "the clone" had only recently re-emerged,,,,, one was wearing a Spidey suit, the other regular street clothes and a Spidey mask..... they were in a building (wherever Carnage was being held i think) there had been a breakout and the two of them fought him with no outside help and no webs...... they knocked the crap out of him..... Venom wasn't in that story

Batman "took down" Carnage with 2 hits...... that's less believable than Wolvy surviving a nuke

actually I thought it was implied that bats took carnage down with multiple shots.....in any case I don't see how it's implausible since bats was hitting the host in the face not the symbiote.

And in what story arc issue number did this carnage fight happen....i was think planet of the symbiotes.

nah, way before pots.......lol

i think the traveller may have been involved....... about 10 years ago when i first started collecting.......... i have it somewhere

i only flicked through the Bat/Spider issue, but it looked like Bats talked Carnage into being scared ....... or something .............. then punched him out in about 2 hits....... how did he manage to get the symbiote to go off kassidy?........ either way, i remember it seeming very stupid....... that's why i didn't buy it

pots......lol


the traveller was involved? was this before or after carnage had spidey at his mercy for his trial?

and I don't remember how he got the symbiote off.....i'll have to go back and rumage the ol collection this weekend.

before the trial story...... before Kaine as well........ i think....... i haven't read that older stuff in a while

no doubt i'll look it out in the next few days though

do you remember the foil covered double sided issues? i think it was in those....... you know...... you read half, flip it over then read the other half...... part from Pete, part from Ben........... again "i think"

hmmmm i know what your talking about....but i don't know how many of those I have in my collection still........ugggggghhhhhhh your urgin me to do some explorin that I don't wanna do.....lol.

whistling

Batman ain't whoopin Scarlet, Spidey, Venom, and definitely not CARNAGE with no prep time and thats fact.

A previous reply

"Reed makes Bats look like an autistic child on life support."

Last day bump.