Akuma vs. Goku

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wolf biologist
The best of the best no holds bars match, anything goes, any transformation. So who will win goku or akuma?

SaTsuJiN
Goku 4 hands down.. he'd just fly up where gouki cant reach and throws like 900 spirit bombs like machine gun fire, or punch him so hard one time he'd sail around the planet twice before splashing on the ground like a giblet filled water balloon on hot august concrete

FistOfThe North
Goku.

Ketchuptome
Akuma doesnt really stand a chance

dark1365
What Satsujin said. Really, this is just too one sided.

mr.smiley
depends.
goku is tough but some of the powers don't make sense.
kahmahameha xs10 in gt only did enough damage to deystroy a freakin rollercoaster.
and a lot of things i read about goku is only speculation.
their's a lot of dbz crap thats out their.

goku is extreamly powerful but he's also somewhat stupid and had trouble fighting blind.
9 out of 10 times a say goku would win but i say akuma still has a slight chance

NinjaJJ
Goku all the way!!!

TrAnCeDuO
goku wins every goddamn fight because hes seriously overpowered and there probably isnt any other fighter as powerful as him.

maybe thats why the tv series is horrible.

mr.smiley
maybe not as powerful but their are tough and more dangerous.
then again it took him and vegeta to hold up a building in gt

Redmann_05
In my opinion goku is an idiot which is why akuma would win. Goku would spend so much time thinking about how strong akuma is he doesn't realize that the more he plays with akuma the stronger he becomes. Thus transforming into shin akuma.

Draco69
I'm gonna miss Akuma.

Darth Mantis
Goku of course... KA...ME...HA...ME...HA!!!

mr.smiley
In my opinion goku is an idiot which is why akuma would win. Goku would spend so much time thinking about how strong akuma is he doesn't realize that the more he plays with akuma the stronger he becomes. Thus transforming into shin akuma.

agreed.

shadow12
goku only for the fact that he can go SS4

grey fox
gt was the biggest pile of shit ever made it had various plot hoels and stupid villians

shadow12
i know it was to random for so i stopped watching it

mr.smiley
awesome.

Hoshi
guy , i dont know what you think , but the ss4 is from dbgt , and i dont recognize the dragon ball gt as the continuation of dbz .Because it isnt even akira toriyama who do the freaking program

ZomBiE_HunTER
WHos akuma

shadow12
hes from street fighter he is almost like ryu but stronger

Kento
Originally posted by TrAnCeDuO
goku wins every goddamn fight because hes seriously overpowered and there probably isnt any other fighter as powerful as him.

maybe thats why the tv series is horrible. Gokou win's every fight? laughing

That's why he needed Piccolo to kill Radditz, and him.

Why he needed Yajirobe to cut off Vegeta's tail, and Krillen to throw the small part of the Spirit Bomb, and Gohan to stall Vegeta, and Gokou wasn't able to move at all.

Why he had to let Gohan kill Cell.

Why it was Vegeta's plan, Mr. Satan's fame, and the energy of everything int he universe to make a Spirit Bomb to defeat Buu.

roll eyes (sarcastic) He really wins every battle.

shadow12
the only fight he truley won on his own was against freza and then he had help

Darth Death
against freiza i dont remember him having help and Goku is so good because he is not afraid to ask for help unlike everybody else

shadow12
he tecniclly didn't kill freiza andhe had help most of the fight with him
so future trunk helped him finish him off the in future trunks saga

ZomBiE_HunTER
Originally posted by shadow12
hes from street fighter he is almost like ryu but stronger
OOO I vote for Goku big time.

Kento
Originally posted by Darth Death
against freiza i dont remember him having help and Goku is so good because he is not afraid to ask for help unlike everybody else confused Well Freeza did Fight Vegeta, Krillen, Gohan, and Piccolo. Got beat up by Piccolo to transform, had his tail cut by Krillen, and then was hurt by the Spirit Bomb all before Gokou went SSJ...Then there's Gokou being beat down by Freeza..Soo neither was actually unhurt when the SSJ Gokou vs Freeza battle started but Freeza had been fighting a lot longer.

dark1365
Goku, hands down.

mr.smiley
strength wise we have seen what akuma can do.He can deystroy mountain with his bare fist.In terms of physical strength the best we have of goku is the gravity training.Akuma,however,has also proven this by walking all over the bottom of waters and such and then moving islands with his hands while underwater!
Not to mention a haduken done with just one hand while fighting in japan,left a blast big enough that ken saw it in america.
Akuma is a serious tough guy.
In terms of phsical strength,i give it to akuma.When it comes to ki blast i leave it undetermined,but when provoked,akuma can blast like hell.
The only thing i see the goku has over akuma is probably speed

Kento
I give it to Akuma. Gokou is way to overrated.

shadow12
i change my desision to akuma

SaTsuJiN
Originally posted by Kento
Gokou win's every fight? laughing

That's why he needed Piccolo to kill Radditz, and him.

Why he needed Yajirobe to cut off Vegeta's tail, and Krillen to throw the small part of the Spirit Bomb, and Gohan to stall Vegeta, and Gokou wasn't able to move at all.

Why he had to let Gohan kill Cell.

Why it was Vegeta's plan, Mr. Satan's fame, and the energy of everything int he universe to make a Spirit Bomb to defeat Buu.

roll eyes (sarcastic) He really wins every battle.

and if he wasnt there?... guess where the earth woulda been?... KABOOM!.. goku might not be a 1 man army.. but he's definately the MVP of dragonball

shadow12
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
and if he wasnt there?... guess where the earth woulda been?... KABOOM!.. goku might not be a 1 man army.. but he's definately the MVP of dragonball
what the hell do you expect they always make the main character the one to finish enemies and besides its the same way around if it wasn't for those half wits goku really woludn't last long inthe fights because they interfer

Kento
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
and if he wasnt there?... guess where the earth woulda been?... KABOOM!.. goku might not be a 1 man army.. but he's definately the MVP of dragonball eek! Oh wait. He was there for Cell, and he didn't even finish the fight or even win. It was Gohan who did it. Gokou doesn't need to be around. Gohan after Old Kaioshin's training was stronger then Gokou was. Gohan is the strongest saiyan not Gokou, and would have been a whole lot stronger then Gokou if he hadn't of stopped training.

And he wasn't on Earth when Freeza showed up. Trunks quite easily handled King Kold, and Freeza Gokou wasn't needed.

roll eyes (sarcastic) Only reason Gokou even beat Buu instead of Gohan was because of fans. Heck the only reason Gokou didn't die, and the series end after the Freeza saga was because of fans. And even then Gokou didn't beat Buu. He was just the trigger. If not for Tien, Vegeta, Dende, and most importantly Mr. Satan then Gokou would not have been able to do Spirit Bomb to defeat Buu.

shadow12
Originally posted by Kento
eek! Oh wait. He was there for Cell, and he didn't even finish the fight or even win. It was Gohan who did it. Gokou doesn't need to be around. Gohan after Old Kaioshin's training was stronger then Gokou was. Gohan is the strongest saiyan not Gokou, and would have been a whole lot stronger then Gokou if he hadn't of stopped training.

And he wasn't on Earth when Freeza showed up. Trunks quite easily handled King Kold, and Freeza Gokou wasn't needed.

roll eyes (sarcastic) Only reason Gokou even beat Buu instead of Gohan was because of fans. Heck the only reason Gokou didn't die, and the series end after the Freeza saga was because of fans. And even then Gokou didn't beat Buu. He was just the trigger. If not for Tien, Vegeta, Dende, and most importantly Mr. Satan then Gokou would not have been able to do Spirit Bomb to defeat Buu.
exactly

Hoshi
i like them both if you ask me , and i will say that both of them fight for the same objective .I know you will say that i am crazy , but both of them fight to find stronger guy , i like them both , in terms of power they are equally matched , but i think Akuma can focus better than goku , and with a higher focus he is a better fighter

RoyMC
im with satsujin goku will win

shadow12
i still vote for akuma

Kento
As do I.

mr.smiley
goku is fudged!
I think akumas stare alone would be enought to take out goku

CorderaMitchell
Akuma with his lethal techniques that work on anyone.

SaTsuJiN
Originally posted by Kento
eek! Oh wait. He was there for Cell, and he didn't even finish the fight or even win. It was Gohan who did it. Gokou doesn't need to be around. Gohan after Old Kaioshin's training was stronger then Gokou was. Gohan is the strongest saiyan not Gokou, and would have been a whole lot stronger then Gokou if he hadn't of stopped training.

And he wasn't on Earth when Freeza showed up. Trunks quite easily handled King Kold, and Freeza Gokou wasn't needed.

roll eyes (sarcastic) Only reason Gokou even beat Buu instead of Gohan was because of fans. Heck the only reason Gokou didn't die, and the series end after the Freeza saga was because of fans. And even then Gokou didn't beat Buu. He was just the trigger. If not for Tien, Vegeta, Dende, and most importantly Mr. Satan then Gokou would not have been able to do Spirit Bomb to defeat Buu. oh my bad.. I suppose gohan crying like a lil shithead was going to save the world.... roll eyes (sarcastic) it was goku who told him to buck up and start using his full power... again.. goku the MVP

CorderaMitchell
ouch.

Dizzle
I'll point out Frieza blew up a planet. That's around the level of Goku when he first hit SS1. By the end of DBZ, Goku had hit SS3, as well as having a huge base increase. No freaking contest in blasting. Strength is strange in DBZ. Most have the strength to punch others through mountains and the like, but struggle with objects like boulders...

SaTsuJiN
I think that would depend if they controlled their power, or flailed it wildly.. I've never known goku to just run around smashing up the planet he lives on, or anyone elses.. thats more vegetas style heh

CorderaMitchell
Yeah well in the game akuma rules, and his name is close to goku's, "gouki"lol.

dvampire
Akuma. Goku fights like a amature and he loses strength way to fast. Hes not going to beat a serious fighter as Akumas is, in any transformation. Goku can throw energy blast all day, Akuma will just teleport away and force him to fight in close combat, where he nails him with a Shoryuken.

Magee
Guess I'm gonna have to school everyone on Goku's strengths and abilities. First of all there is no way Akuma is physically stronger than Goku. In other world couple of months after the cell saga we see Goku training with weights on his limbs. Anyway long story short King Kai makes each weight 40 tons thats 4x40, Goku then says it would be to easy as SSj1. Thats 7yrs before the Buu saga in which Goku trained intensley every day.

Instant Translocation. Goku stated it allowed him to move at something like 180,000mps (round about light speed). He said this to Trunks after he killed Freiza when Goku didn't show up. I seriously doubt Akuma could keep up with such speed.

Do I really even have to explain his Ki ability? Cell unleashed a Kamehameha intended to destroy the Earth which was easily sent back at him by SSj2 Gohan. Goku wins in this department hands down, I would say.

His durability is phenomenal but if he doesn't have his guard up he can be hurt by simple things like rocks and frying pans lol. He is amazing at H2H combat, trained in martial arts since about 4yrs old. And has won the World Martial Arts tournament twice. If SS to long he starts to get tired but only in ssj3 and maybe 2. Since him and Gohan found a way to always be Super Sayain without it taking up any energy. Above all this he can fly which just gives him another unfair advantage.

Goku is definitely an overpowered character which is why he really shouldn't go against people outside the Dbz universe.

CorderaMitchell
Very obviously.

dvampire
Originally posted by Magee
Guess I'm gonna have to school everyone on Goku's strengths and abilities. First of all there is no way Akuma is physically stronger than Goku. In other world couple of months after the cell saga we see Goku training with weights on his limbs. Anyway long story short King Kai makes each weight 40 tons thats 4x40, Goku then says it would be to easy as SSj1. Thats 7yrs before the Buu saga in which Goku trained intensley every day.

Instant Translocation. Goku stated it allowed him to move at something like 180,000mps (round about light speed). He said this to Trunks after he killed Freiza when Goku didn't show up. I seriously doubt Akuma could keep up with such speed.

Do I really even have to explain his Ki ability? Cell unleashed a Kamehameha intended to destroy the Earth which was easily sent back at him by SSj2 Gohan. Goku wins in this department hands down, I would say.

His durability is phenomenal but if he doesn't have his guard up he can be hurt by simple things like rocks and frying pans lol. He is amazing at H2H combat, trained in martial arts since about 4yrs old. And has won the World Martial Arts tournament twice. If SS to long he starts to get tired but only in ssj3 and maybe 2. Since him and Gohan found a way to always be Super Sayain without it taking up any energy. Above all this he can fly which just gives him another unfair advantage.

Goku is definitely an overpowered character which is why he really shouldn't go against people outside the Dbz universe.

Hes not a over powerful character. DBZ/GT hasn't done anything that I haven't seen in any other anime. Hes been trained in MAs but it never seem to help him. Lots of beings are destroy earths now so thats getting pretty old now.

The Kamehameha wave is to slow to pull off so that wouldn't be a good option. Spirit bomb takes even longer to charge so thats out as well. He lifted a halve a city in ssj3 (manga only, he never shown any feats in the anime in that transformation), and struggles with a buliding in ssj4. Instat transmmision is like a teleporting technique that allows him to travel any where he wants if he taps on to some ones energy, it takes time to do.

Hes not that much of a good fighter because he always needs help in his battles. Heck when he doesn't need help he still fights terrible; Like the fight against Super 17, ssj4 Goku just kept firing energy blast at 17 while hes smileing absorbing his energy attacks and Goku still couldn't figure out what he was doing, dr. Myuu even told him that he absorb energy attacks, and ssj4 Goku still fired a Kamehameha wave (not much of a fighting expert to me).

Akuma wins this 8/10 IMO smile

CorderaMitchell
damn good post, but you gotta see that Goku makes supes look weak, I mean they destroy planets, and move this and that speed ,a nd fly, they are just overpowred, they are like the most powered universe basically.

Hooverman
good point

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
damn good post, but you gotta see that Goku makes supes look weak, I mean they destroy planets, and move this and that speed ,a nd fly, they are just overpowred, they are like the most powered universe basically.

If he can charge the super attacks. He has superspeed but so does Akuma. They're not to overpowered, I'm mean ssj4 Goku couldn't out beat a energy blast from Omega Shinron so hes not all that fast.

IMO I think Supes is a better fight for Akuma then Goku. DBZ/GT is a good anime and have powerful beings but I don't think they are that powerful to be ranked above everybody else. Anyways everybody has there own oppinon, it's just that I have seen others that are powerful than them or just as powerful. smile

Hooverman
wat have u seen............. just curious

dvampire
Originally posted by Hooverman
wat have u seen............. just curious

I got Thanos, Superman, Silver Sufer, Captain Marvel, Demitri, Pyron (a being on Galactus level or maybe even higher) Morrigan, Darkseid, Akuma, Gill, Oro, Kenshiro, The slayers, Fushigi Yugi, Dark Pheonix, Drax, Gladiator, and much, much, more. smile

Hooverman
all those r more powerful?

dvampire
Originally posted by Hooverman
all those r more powerful?

Well some of them are and some could at least be able to match them. Do you have any characters that you think can beat them? smile

Hooverman
maybe but if u didn't know i'm in like 50 other forums

Hooverman
hmmm lets c

Hooverman
1.god
2.neo
3.agent smith

Magee
Originally posted by dvampire
Hes not a over powerful character. DBZ/GT hasn't done anything that I haven't seen in any other anime. Hes been trained in MAs but it never seem to help him. Lots of beings are destroy earths now so thats getting pretty old now.

The Kamehameha wave is to slow to pull off so that wouldn't be a good option. Spirit bomb takes even longer to charge so thats out as well. He lifted a halve a city in ssj3 (manga only, he never shown any feats in the anime in that transformation), and struggles with a buliding in ssj4. Instat transmmision is like a teleporting technique that allows him to travel any where he wants if he taps on to some ones energy, it takes time to do.

Hes not that much of a good fighter because he always needs help in his battles. Heck when he doesn't need help he still fights terrible; Like the fight against Super 17, ssj4 Goku just kept firing energy blast at 17 while hes smileing absorbing his energy attacks and Goku still couldn't figure out what he was doing, dr. Myuu even told him that he absorb energy attacks, and ssj4 Goku still fired a Kamehameha wave (not much of a fighting expert to me).

Akuma wins this 8/10 IMO smile Why you keep refering to DBGT is beyond me. It wasn't even created by Akira Toriyama and tbh it was complete bs.

Goku wont have to use a kamehameha or Spirit Bomb to defeat Akuma, just fire some ki blasts his way. I really can't understand how some people think Akuma could win, he just can't. He's got nothing, Goku's stronger, faster, more powerful and durable.

Goku wins 9/10 IMO smile

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by dvampire
If he can charge the super attacks. He has superspeed but so does Akuma. They're not to overpowered, I'm mean ssj4 Goku couldn't out beat a energy blast from Omega Shinron so hes not all that fast.

IMO I think Supes is a better fight for Akuma then Goku. DBZ/GT is a good anime and have powerful beings but I don't think they are that powerful to be ranked above everybody else. Anyways everybody has there own oppinon, it's just that I have seen others that are powerful than them or just as powerful. smile

Well no its just that Akuma seems great but keep in mind that he is somewhat reasonable, and also keep in mind that when 2 characters of near same calibur fight, then in DB everything looks normal speed, but in a situation between an unmatched char, then the characters show their godliness.

Also, I can see where you come from seeing as, akuma powers up and moves matter, and his best moves will greatly affect goku, but only those, and thats why I see goku winning, also goku flies very unfair, but akuma must've had some bad hops to get that meteor............

dvampire
Originally posted by Magee
Why you keep refering to DBGT is beyond me. It wasn't even created by Akira Toriyama and tbh it was complete bs.

Goku wont have to use a kamehameha or Spirit Bomb to defeat Akuma, just fire some ki blasts his way. I really can't understand how some people think Akuma could win, he just can't. He's got nothing, Goku's stronger, faster, more powerful and durable.

Goku wins 9/10 IMO smile

Thats your opinion. Akira was in on some of the scripts and he came up with ssj4 so he had some part in it.

Akuma wins 8/10 smile

CorderaMitchell
lol

Magee
Originally posted by dvampire
Thats your opinion. Akira was in on some of the scripts and he came up with ssj4 so he had some part in it.

Akuma wins 8/10 smile You really have no idea do you? When Goku went SSJ4 he should have really been risking blowing up the entire planet. As when he went ssj3 the whole planet started to shake so ssj4 should have been god like but it wasn't hence the bullshit. GT sucked so badly i can't even describe it, Goku easily defeats Akuma in ssj3.

Goku wins 10/10 IMO smile

CorderaMitchell
lol

dvampire
Originally posted by Magee
You really have no idea do you? When Goku went SSJ4 he should have really been risking blowing up the entire planet. As when he went ssj3 the whole planet started to shake so ssj4 should have been god like but it wasn't hence the bullshit. GT sucked so badly i can't even describe it, Goku easily defeats Akuma in ssj3.

Goku wins 10/10 IMO smile

He was no better in ssj3, it takes too much energy that it shouldn't be considered a wise choice to make in a fight. He can shake the planet all he wants he still don't have a good showing by himself half the time. And I got every episode from DB-GT, the oringinal manga, and I saw it in Japanese (the real thing) twice. I know lots of stuff about Goku more then you think.

Akuma 8/10 smile

CorderaMitchell
You are a persistent one aren't you.

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
You are a persistent one aren't you.

I think that's why they don't allow DBZ/GT vs. threads because they have to many fans, and they get angry because you vote against them. sick

CorderaMitchell
look at the batman and wolverine threads ive been posting on bro, they are much more vicious.

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
look at the batman and wolverine threads ive been posting on bro, they are much more vicious.

Yeah. Theres nothing I hate more when some fanboy same Wolverine or Batman can beat Galactus. sick

CorderaMitchell
Amen to that bra/

Dizzle
Batman=God

CorderaMitchell
Youve been the one on those comic bookversus threads causing havok.

Magee
Originally posted by dvampire
I think that's why they don't allow DBZ/GT vs. threads because they have to many fans, and they get angry because you vote against them. sick I'm not angry in the slightest if thats what you were trying to imply. Fact is I just think its unbelievable that anyone can possibly think Akuma could beat Goku. Sure ssj3 takes up far to much energy and his physical body could barely withstand the immensity of it when he was on Earth. That alone should just suggest the sheer power of ssj3. Even in ssj2 Goku still wins, Akuma just can't compete with him.

CorderaMitchell
I think he was talking in general.

dvampire
Originally posted by Magee
I'm not angry in the slightest if thats what you were trying to imply. Fact is I just think its unbelievable that anyone can possibly think Akuma could beat Goku. Sure ssj3 takes up far to much energy and his physical body could barely withstand the immensity of it when he was on Earth. That alone should just suggest the sheer power of ssj3. Even in ssj2 Goku still wins, Akuma just can't compete with him.

Akuma will destroy ssj4 Goku. Goku fights like an amature that the fight wouldn't last long. They waste too much energy to compete against him. smile

Magee
I'm just going to finish off with this last post.

Goku is stronger, faster, more durable and he can fly. What exactly does Akuma have on Goku except fighting skill (which is questionable). In this fight it doesn't matter if your an amazing H2H fighter, you'r going down. Even if Goku stood there for a minute, if Akuma hit him it wouldn't hurt, if he let loose his most powerful attack it would do nothing to Goku. What i'm trying to say is Akuma cannot hurt Goku in anyway, so how can he possibly win?

dvampire
Originally posted by Magee
I'm just going to finish off with this last post.

Goku is stronger, faster, more durable and he can fly. What exactly does Akuma have on Goku except fighting skill (which is questionable). In this fight it doesn't matter if your an amazing H2H fighter, you'r going down. Even if Goku stood there for a minute, if Akuma hit him it wouldn't hurt, if he let loose his most powerful attack it would do nothing to Goku. What i'm trying to say is Akuma cannot hurt Goku in anyway, so how can he possibly win?

Akuma is faster, stroger, more durable and a better fighter. Akuma would give ssj4 Goku a fighting lesson, and he would break ssj4 Gokus body in havle if he stood there. Goku is a an amature compared to Akuma and he always needs help in his fights.

Raditz Saga- It took Goku, Piccolo, and Gohan

Vegeta saga- Goku defeats nappa with ease, but needed help with Vegeta. It took Goku, Yajirobe, Gohan, And Krillin.

Freeza saga- Goku was no match until Freeza killed krillin, that made Goku angery which unlock his hidden potencial to become ssj Goku.

Cell saga- He gave up and Gohan finished Cell.

Buu saga- Everybody

Baby saga- It took Goku, Pan, Trunks, Goten, and Gohan

Super 17 saga- Goku (after he lost badly) and 18

Shinron saga- It was alot of fights that Goku lost and won.

Goku always need help in his fights. Akuma can fight ssj4 Goku at a distance with his Hadoken, Shakeunetsu Hadoken, and Messatsu Gouhadou (the match is over right there).

Or better in close combat with his Shoryuken, Tatsumaki Zankukyaku, Messatsu Goushoryu (fights over), Kongou Kokuretsuzan (same thing), Raging Demon (A.K.A Shungokusatsu that will kill him no matter what), and Messatsu Gousenpu (is going to do alot of damage). Akuma can also teleport away from energy blast and if ssj4 Goku tries to fly, he's just setting himself up for a devastating attack know as Misogi that hits you from any where no matter the distance. smile

Yosh
akuma's also the physical incarnation of a demon smile

LeAtHerRFace
an obvious matchup... Dragon Ball characters should be banned to vs anyone else besides their own.

CorderaMitchell
he isn't a demon thats what americans put him to be.

dvampire
Yes Akuma is human. He just happen to be very strong because he do intense training. smile

dvampire
Originally posted by LeAtHerRFace
an obvious matchup... Dragon Ball characters should be banned to vs anyone else besides their own.

No they shouldn't. I'm cool with them fighting other characters outside of DBZ/GT, as long as they don't fill the board with alot of them. big grin

CorderaMitchell
lol

EvilCap America
Even in non-fighting scenes of SF3 where Akuma seems to gain a Gamma irradiated power-up its still nothing more impressive than Piccalo Damioccu could do when he took over the world in DB

Factor in the entier DBZ series and Goku even though hes ranked liked like 8th in the characters strength hes still lightyears beyonnd Akuma.Heck by the end of the series the very gods that created their universe ddint stack up to a SSJ2s power

If you bring GT into then THAT version of Goku loses.TOEIs craptacular creation is riddeled with stupid moments/plotholes and apparently the Goku of that AU cant lift a building becomes weaker when he transforms and can be killed by a rotating fanblade in a sewer

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Even in non-fighting scenes of SF3 where Akuma seems to gain a Gamma irradiated power-up its still nothing more impressive than Piccalo Damioccu could do when he took over the world in DB

Factor in the entier DBZ series and Goku even though hes ranked liked like 8th in the characters strength hes still lightyears beyonnd Akuma.Heck by the end of the series the very gods that created their universe ddint stack up to a SSJ2s power

If you bring GT into then THAT version of Goku loses.TOEIs craptacular creation is riddeled with stupid moments/plotholes and apparently the Goku of that AU cant lift a building becomes weaker when he transforms and can be killed by a rotating fanblade in a sewer

I don't think so. Akuma is more powerful then ssj4 Goku and he's a better fighter. And I actually think ssj4 Goku did as much as ssj3 Goku did with his feats. Anyways I think Akuma will win for having a better showing. And there gods are weak, no offense. smile

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
I don't think so. Akuma is more powerful then ssj4 Goku and he's a better fighter. And I actually think ssj4 Goku did as much as ssj3 Goku did with his feats. Anyways I think Akuma will win for having a better showing. And there gods are weak, no offense. smile

Of course Akuma would beat SSJ4 Goku hes weak and GT is an AU where everyone is weaker.Its like comparing OVA Tenchi and Ryoko who were awesomely powerful to other series where Tenchi and Ryoko didnt have a fraction of the last series strengths

Anyways SSJ1 goky ***** slapped something that could destroy a world with a wave of his hand and none of Akumas feats were beyond Piccalos first apperence feats.Anything past DB Goku is getting to high for anyone outside of Saint Seiya to take on.Akuma WOULD have been a great oppoent for DB era though

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Of course Akuma would beat SSJ4 Goku hes weak and GT is an AU where everyone is weaker.Its like comparing OVA Tenchi and Ryoko who were awesomely powerful to other series where Tenchi and Ryoko didnt have a fraction of the last series strengths

Anyways SSJ1 goky ***** slapped something that could destroy a world with a wave of his hand and none of Akumas feats were beyond Piccalos first apperence feats.Anything past DB Goku is getting to high for anyone outside of Saint Seiya to take on.Akuma WOULD have been a great oppoent for DB era though

They go by power level in DBZ/GT, Goku was stronger so he so it was nothing to him. And I think Akuma would beat any of them. I have seen all of what Goku is capable of, while Akuma still havn't showed his full power but from what he has fought and the feats he showed I'll say he is more powerful. smile

Dizzle
Name one feat of Akumas that can equal destroying a planet. That's Goku when he first hit SSJ1. (it was actually Frieza, who is around that level) It's safe to say that Goku's power has increased several times over since then. And Akuma's energy blasts would pale even next to small ki blasts from Goku. He would swat away Akuma's stuff with no trouble.

dvampire
Originally posted by Dizzle
Name one feat of Akumas that can equal destroying a planet. That's Goku when he first hit SSJ1. (it was actually Frieza, who is around that level) It's safe to say that Goku's power has increased several times over since then. And Akuma's energy blasts would pale even next to small ki blasts from Goku. He would swat away Akuma's stuff with no trouble.

Try looking at Akuma vs. Demitri. And clam down. smile

EvilCap America
Originally posted by Dizzle
Name one feat of Akumas that can equal destroying a planet. That's Goku when he first hit SSJ1. (it was actually Frieza, who is around that level) It's safe to say that Goku's power has increased several times over since then. And Akuma's energy blasts would pale even next to small ki blasts from Goku. He would swat away Akuma's stuff with no trouble.

Saiyan Saga Vegeta PL 18,000 launched a Galic Gun with the intention of blowing up Earth

Goku in KaiokenX3 blocked it with a Kamahamaha then amped his power up going KKx4.The attack hurt Vegeta but didnt kill him

They are sitting around the teens to 20-30K PL range

Frieza was approximated at 12 Million in PL.Care to think about the lv of increase based on 20K being "Blow-u planet/resist such attacks" range

After that throughout the Cell saga all characters power again increase exponetially and then the Buu saga comes out where Goku ets a form he cant even sustain with a living body

This is kind of the reason DBZ dont work well in alot of Vs topics.When you look at the rate and range of characters power boosts it ets insane.Not just because of where the show goes but beccause it went on ALOT longer than was intended and more stuff ket needing to be added in

CorderaMitchell
So what do you see the chances of this to be.....

Dizzle
Yeah... DBZ's insane. SSJ3's gotta be in the billions...

And dvamp, I read your Akuma vs. Demitri thread... At their most impressive, you said Akuma level beings could take out planets with one shot. Firstly, Akuma has never done anything to hint that he could take out the entire planet. Sinking an island is nothing compared to the entire planet Earth. If you think planets are impressive though, look at Frieza. Or better yet, the Vegeta example from EvilCap. I find Akuma overrated lately. Still badass, but taking Goku? All of DBZ is on a completely different level from pretty much anything else. The power levels are just over the top.

CorderaMitchell
who's been overrating him?

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Saiyan Saga Vegeta PL 18,000 launched a Galic Gun with the intention of blowing up Earth

Goku in KaiokenX3 blocked it with a Kamahamaha then amped his power up going KKx4.The attack hurt Vegeta but didnt kill him

They are sitting around the teens to 20-30K PL range

Frieza was approximated at 12 Million in PL.Care to think about the lv of increase based on 20K being "Blow-u planet/resist such attacks" range

After that throughout the Cell saga all characters power again increase exponetially and then the Cell saga comes out where Goku ets a form he cant even sustain with a living body

This is kind of the reason DBZ dont work well in alot of Vs topics.When you look at the rate and range of characters power boosts it ets insane.Not just because of where the show goes but beccause it went on ALOT longer than was intended and more stuff ket needing to be added in

ssJ3 Gokus maximum lifting strength was halve a city he could barely do it ether (in the original manga only, he never showed any feats in the show when he was ssj3) and he struggle with a building in ssj4. Blowing up planets isn't as impressive as it once was because you got alot of people doing that alot in comics, anime, and games.

Akuma is fighting people like Gill (who is like a god and he can never die) who still hasn't show his full power but, the guy spilt the ocean in halve with just a lift of his hand he can also give his power to people, you got Demitri who destroy planets with no problem, Pyron (Pyron is on Galactus level or maybe even greater, he makes planets look like little dots to him) who is a cosmic being that melt planets with no problem, destroy stars, and destroy galaxies with little effort, Oro who is very power and he still hasn't fought at full power. There is alot of characters that can match and beat the DBZ/GT characters. smile

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
ssJ3 Gokus maximum lifting strength was halve a city he could barely do it ether (in the original manga only, he never showed any feats in the show when he was ssj3) and he struggle with a building in ssj4. Blowing up planets isn't as impressive as it once was because you got alot of people doing that alot in comics, anime, and games.


Problem-I belive ive already established that SSJ4 and GT arent DBZ Goku.For gods sake Goku in that was Afraid a rotating fan blade in a swer would kill him.Look at Bebi Vegeta he couldnt blow up earth in 3 shots but was supposed to be stronger than Buu and that was something Saiyan Saga Vegeta could do.Of course he couldnt hold a building he could be taken out by DB desert bandit Yamcha if a fanblade could kill him

Next where did they show any lifting strength for SSJ3 Goku?Even so why does it matter when power in DBZ was never ever rated by lifting alot like an Ameircan Comic.

Anyways DBZ i say look a the rate of increse in power i gave and the fact that characters have taken attacks meant to destroy planets then increase in power several times over take stronger shots etc.Akuma as impressive as the things hes done in ending sequances is isnt pulling off anything most late DB characters couldnt have done

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Problem-I belive ive already established that SSJ4 and GT arent DBZ Goku.For gods sake Goku in that was Afraid a rotating fan blade in a swer would kill him.Look at Bebi Vegeta he couldnt blow up earth in 3 shots but was supposed to be stronger than Buu and that was something Saiyan Saga Vegeta could do.Of course he couldnt hold a building he could be taken out by DB desert bandit Yamcha if a fanblade could kill him

Next where did they show any lifting strength for SSJ3 Goku?Even so why does it matter when power in DBZ was never ever rated by lifting alot like an Ameircan Comic.

Anyways DBZ i say look a the rate of increse in power i gave and the fact that characters have taken attacks meant to destroy planets then increase in power several times over take stronger shots etc.Akuma as impressive as the things hes done in ending sequances is isnt pulling off anything most late DB characters couldnt have done

In the manga ssj3 Goku lifts halve a city, this is the original story made by the creator Akira Toriyama. And the beings Akuma fights prove that he's more than enough to defeat them. But I respect your opinion, atleast you didn't get mad.

AdventChild
Goku no contest...

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
In the manga ssj3 Goku lifts halve a city, this is the original story made by the creator Akira Toriyama. And the beings Akuma fights prove that he's more than enough to defeat them. But I respect your opinion, atleast you didn't get mad.

Where did Goku lift half a city?I dont remember anythinng like that coming up.At least tell me where that happens at

.......Oh god no im defending Goku in a DBZ argument.....Im such a dork :cry:

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Where did Goku lift half a city?I dont remember anythinng like that coming up.At least tell me where that happens at

.......Oh god no im defending Goku in a DBZ argument.....Im such a dork :cry:

Pick up the Manga at the comic store it has 42 volumes.

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
Pick up the Manga at the comic store it has 42 volumes.

Are you in America?Because as of right now they are only up to Volume 20 of DBZ and just ending the Cell saga

CorderaMitchell
now if this were shin akuma, vs normal goku,maybe but..............

Yosh
How could they be compared anyway, all Dragonball z revolves around is endless power-ups P: street fighter does to some extent but at least its
"real"

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Are you in America?Because as of right now they are only up to Volume 20 of DBZ and just ending the Cell saga

They're are two types of manga. An America version that is made by VIZ comics (or Shonen Jump) and The oringinal manga created by Akira Toriyama. I have the original manga that's in black and white; it's way better then the America Version because it's way more violent with edited scenes. smile

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
now if this were shin akuma, vs ssj4 Gogeta,maybe but.............. Thats much better.

Sorry I disagree with you cordera, I think Shin-Akuma could beat any form really IMO. If you played Darkstalkers 3 and CFE you'll know what I'm talking about. Because I don't think any of them can compare to Pyron. If you hadn't played the game go to this website to get a better look at Pyron.

Check out www.capcomcomics.com to get a better look at Pyron he's the big burnnig guy in space that makes planet earth look like a dot. smile

dvampire
Originally posted by dvampire
They're are two types of manga. An America version that is made by VIZ comics (or Shonen Jump) and The oringinal manga created by Akira Toriyama. I have the original manga that's in black and white; it's way better then the America Version because it's way more violent with edited scenes. smile

I meant to say unedited scenes. smile

CorderaMitchell
I say shungokusatsu and misogi are his best shots, but really dbz just has powers that go here and there. I wanted a thread like this, but the GT characters seemed weaker, after Z.

Yes I understand what pyron is capable of, but I don't think Gill is up for SS3 goku, and he is close to akuma, no?

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I say shungokusatsu and misogi are his best shots, but really dbz just has powers that go here and there. I wanted a thread like this, but the GT characters seemed weaker, after Z.

Yes I understand what pyron is capable of, but I don't think Gill is up for SS3 goku, and he is close to akuma, no?

I think so. Shin-Akuma, Demitri, Gill, Oro and Pyron (in his Humanoid form) are all in the same tier. Yeah they do have energy blast, but that's all they have as a good offense and Pyron (he can fly, teleport, and throw energy blasts) is somthing like them. I think a fighter can win a battle with just one energy blast that will be used for an offense (like Supermans Heat Vision). And I think they have some characters in GT that are great as DBZ characters.


Sure I think Gill is capable of holding his own. He can create fire/ice with just a thought, he can teleport (if you beat the game with yun, he also tell you little bit more about him), and Him and Urien possess secret and ancient fighting arts kept by there organization (which they say have about 66 secret techniques). As for Gill being more powerful then Akuma I don't know because they never stated that in the game. smile

CorderaMitchell
I know Gill is somewhere close but the debate breaking question is.

Can akuma beat superman.

I do see your points, but I just know how ridiculously overpowered DBis.

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I know Gill is somewhere close but the debate breaking question is.

Can akuma beat superman.

I do see your points, but I just know how ridiculously overpowered DBis.

I think Superman is more powerful then ssj3 and 4 Goku physically. ssj3 Goku lifts halve a city and ssj4 struggle with a building, most of their strengths come from energy blasts. Supes is far stronger than that and he got the speed to back it up, not to mention he got punch threw the earth, and survived being taken into a blackhole. I think Akuma may beat Superman with his fighting skill, it won't be easy but I do think Supes would win a couple.

Akuma 6/10 versus Supes. smile

CorderaMitchell
lol super bananadancedancedance

EvilCap America
Considering Kid Goku started out DB Bullet proof and performed feats on par with 1-10 ton strength heroes and then became much stronger when training with Master Roshi took out an entire army on his own soon afterwards could already move too fast for anyone to see and continued to jump in power by leaps and bounds i dont see how he can be ranked so low.

Are you telling me that over all of DBZ history and everything DB/DBZ spanned that Goku basically gained from including a transformation trhat was stated to double all his strength each level that even itself become obsolete with SSJ which didnt hold a fraction of the power that he did after training in the ROSAT that ddint hold a fraction of the power he had as a SSJ2 that didnt even come close to SSJ3 that he basically gained a tiny bit of powr overall and isnt that much higher than your average SFer character?

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Considering Kid Goku started out DB Bullet proof and performed feats on par with 1-10 ton strength heroes and then became much stronger when training with Master Roshi took out an entire army on his own soon afterwards could already move too fast for anyone to see and continued to jump in power by leaps and bounds i dont see how he can be ranked so low.

Are you telling me that over all of DBZ history and everything DB/DBZ spanned that Goku basically gained from including a transformation trhat was stated to double all his strength each level that even itself become obsolete with SSJ which didnt hold a fraction of the power that he did after training in the ROSAT that ddint hold a fraction of the power he had as a SSJ2 that didnt even come close to SSJ3 that he basically gained a tiny bit of powr overall and isnt that much higher than your average SFer character?

He's stronger then the lower tier characters yes, but not the god tiers. As for ssj stages we don't know how powerful they become after each one. They go by power levels so if ssj3 Goku fights a ssj2 Goku he'll lose. Plus I've seen the maximum both ssj3 Goku and ssj4 Goku can lift. smile

CorderaMitchell
I thinnk kid gohan and akuma are good matches, since akuma could kill a whole army, i can see him doing it now............

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
He's stronger then the lower tier characters yes, but not the god tiers. As for ssj stages we don't know how powerful they become after each one. They go by power levels so if ssj3 Goku fights a ssj2 Goku he'll lose. Plus I've seen the maximum both ssj3 Goku and ssj4 Goku can lift. smile

Well i 100% agree that SSJ4 Goku will lose bsed on the weak ability and mindboggling stupidity he had shown in GT but the SSJ3 example i dont even recall.SSJ3 Goku shows up only about 3 times

1] The non-fight against Fat Buu where both around with each other for a few minutes and Goku blows a tenth of the planet up on accident

2] A couple of seconds when Super Buu was nearby

3] The fight against Kid Buu

The only time they were near a city is in example 1 and most of that fight was spent in the air with Buu smashing through a building once

I also seriously dont see how any of Akumas feats couldnt have been done by a late Dragon Ball/Early DBZ enemy or a later Yu Yu Hakusho character

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I thinnk kid gohan and akuma are good matches, since akuma could kill a whole army, i can see him doing it now............

I think he will murder kid Gohan. They're are no where near Shin-Akuma, Gill, Pyron, Oro, and Demitri. You have Pyron whos way hotter then the sun, detroys planets and stars with no problem, collect planets as items, absorbs the planets energy after he defeats the most powerful beings on the planet, and destorys galaxies. No body in DBZ/GT ever fought somebody like that. You guys are underestimating what they can these characters can do. smile

CorderaMitchell
Okay maybe I exaggerated a bit...........

I'm giving you guys props on the "best debator" thread in the versus forum, check it out.........

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
I think he will murder kid Gohan. They're are no where near Shin-Akuma, Gill, Pyron, Oro, and Demitri. You have Pyron whos way hotter then the sun, detroys planets and stars with no problem, collect planets as items, absorbs the planets energy after he defeats the most powerful beings on the planet, and destorys galaxies. No body in DBZ/GT ever fought somebody like that. You guys are underestimating what they can these characters can do. smile

I could easily see Pyron hang up with them.He destroys planets they destroy planets.He swallows Solar systems Cell could blow up solar systems.Pyron vs Cell would be something worth seeing

Editing in-I think i should say i dont see Akuma Oro etc up around yrons level.Demitri only after being Pyrons lesser form.Akuma blowing up mountains and islands seems quite a step down from planet eatting

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Well i 100% agree that SSJ4 Goku will lose bsed on the ability and mindboggling stupid he had shown in GT but the SSJ3 example i dont even recall.SSJ3 Goku shows up only aout 3 times

1] The non-fight against Fat Buu where both around with each other for a few minutes ad Goku blows a tenth of the planet up on accident

2] A couple of seconds when Super Buu was nearby

3] The fight against Kid Buu

The only time they were near a city is in example 1 and most of that fight was spent in the air with Buu smashing through a building once

I seriously dont see how any of Akumas feats couldnt have been done by a late Dragon Ball/Early DBZ enemy or a later Yu Yu Hakusho character

Goku can blow up planets with energy blasts but not with a punch or a kick, they physically isn't that strong. and feats hes done he did with no problem and the fighters he been up against says different. smile

CorderaMitchell
Going by the fact that akuma destroyed a meteor and stomps the earth, I think he could do some damage on goku, before he flies away...........

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
I could easily see Pyron hang up with them.He destroys planets they destroy planets.He swallows Solar systems Cell could blow up solar systems.Pyron vs Cell would be something worth seeing

Cell is far from destoying solar systems and hes far from being on Pyrons level of power. Pyron is on Galactus level or maybe greater, Cell doesn't stand a chance. Pyron is a living being comprised solely of energy. With his powers he seeks to rule the entire universe, absorbing planets energy and conquering them one by one. His blazing body can melt the milkyway and burn the planets to ashes in an instant. An alien from planet Hellstorm. After evolving over many years, he became a cosmic being. Over the time of 200 million years, he sought to collect beautiful planets (bored) by consuming them. To know more about him try playing the Darkstalkers video games. SSJ4 Goku could barely beat a Nova Shinron whos no where close to being hotter then Pyron. In darkstalkers #6 Pyron was just floating in space and he wasn't that near or trying to melt the planet earth; and the thing change the tempature around the world.

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
Goku can blow up planets with energy blasts but not with a punch or a kick, they physically isn't that strong. and feats hes done he did with no problem and the fighters he been up against says different. smile

That also comes down to a question of what happens when and what the different between Physical/Energy attacks strengths are.For instance prime example Vegeta attacks Perfect Cell and lands a kick that barely moves Cell head and doesnt make him stop smiling later he uses Final Flash convinces Cell to take it head on to prove his strength and it ends up blowing his arm and part of his torso off.This shows theres a difference between Physical and energy attacks in the series the question is how much.There are also moments where charcters have taken extremely powerful attacks entierly physically especally in the Frieza Saga.The only reason we see less of this is because we get regenerating villians and im guessing everyone figured out "IF theres a cloud of dust hes not dead".Theres also the uestion of how much "Being on guard" matters since Vegeta has shown at least a couple examples of hurting people stronger than him when they werent ready

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
SSJ4 Goku could barely beat a Nova Shinron whos no where close to being hotter then Pyron..

Yeah but SSJ4 Gokus strength is more on par with DB characters.He couldnt have beat most of the contestants in the later Budokais let alone a character of any signifgance to DBZ

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
That also comes down to a question of what happens when and what the different between Physical/Energy attacks strengths are.For instance prime example Vegeta attacks Perfect Cell and lands a kick that barely moves Cell head and doesnt make him stop smiling later he uses Final Flash convinces Cell to take it head on to prove his strength and it ends up blowing his arm and part of his torso off.This shows theres a difference between Physical and energy attacks in the series the question is how much.There are also moments where charcters have taken extremely powerful attacks entierly physically especally in the Frieza Saga.The only reason we see less of this is because we get regenerating villians and im guessing everyone figured out "IF theres a cloud of dust hes not dead".Theres also the uestion of how much "Being on guard" matters since Vegeta has shown at least a couple examples of hurting people stronger than him when they werent ready

Thats because they go by power levels, once somebody is stronger in that series the other person doesn't stand a chance. And he had to charge that attack to do some damage not to mention Cell let him do it. smile

dvampire
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Yeah but SSJ4 Gokus strength is more on par with DB characters.He couldnt have beat most of the contestants in the later Budokais let alone a character of any signifgance to DBZ

No hes not. He even tells General Rildo that hes even more powerful then Majin Buu. smile I don't think GT is better then DBZ but you can't dismiss it because it's part of the story.

dvampire
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Going by the fact that akuma destroyed a meteor and stomps the earth, I think he could do some damage on goku, before he flies away...........

You forget that Akuma have the Misogi technique and he can teleport. smile

CorderaMitchell
I know those quite well, but goku goes light speed at times.

EvilCap America
Originally posted by dvampire
No hes not. He even tells General Rildo that hes even more powerful then Majin Buu. smile I don't think GT is better then DBZ but you can't dismiss it because it's part of the story.

Actually its impossible for it to be part of the DBZ storyline because of lack of AT and the plotholesIts more along the lines of Tenchi in tokyo being compared to the OVA where there was a pretty massive difference in the characters strengths despite similarities.

If GT is part of the Storyline then Various fanfics online which have things ranging from krillian beatting SSJ3 goku straight out to Pan getting a female Saian transformation where she grows a penis and then beats down and gives a rectal exam to SSJ4 Gogeta with her "Round warm heated instrament" should count too.The only difference is they didnt have a mountain of cash to give AT for the story he was tired of making

as for "Speed of light" its not really calculateable how fast the characters go.We are never given actual speeds other than Kid Goku saying he could run faster than most of Bulmas vehicles early on after that its just gets faster with no real compairson besides'Im faster than him".Id probably not put them at Light speed levels but they DO raise pretty high since they could do Flash style after-image tricks pretty early on

Dizzle
I wouldn't say they reach FTL speeds, but I'd say they are at least nigh-on lightspeed. I seriously doubt Akuma could go that fast...

CorderaMitchell
he cant

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by EvilCap America

as for "Speed of light" its not really calculateable how fast the characters go.We are never given actual speeds other than Kid Goku saying he could run faster than most of Bulmas vehicles early on after that its just gets faster with no real compairson besides'Im faster than him".Id probably not put them at Light speed levels but they DO raise pretty high since they could do Flash style after-image tricks pretty early on

well Goku did get Instant Transmission and wouldn't you say maybe thats on par if not better than light speed.

CorderaMitchell
Its very true, but how would it prove in a battle tactic against constant assault??

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