who is the better peak human? Cap,Batman,Black panther, or Daredevil?

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jplatinum
Which one of these Peakhuman fighters if better than the rest.

OtterVomit
In terms of technique, probably Batman.

But in terms of actual physical stature, I'd say Captain America.

Draco69
Originally posted by OtterVomit
In terms of technique, probably Batman.

But in terms of actual physical stature, I'd say Captain America.

Ditto

leonheartmm
yea but black panther has the highest agility.

Sentry
When it comes to peak human physical stature, Cap is the Man. Skill and Technique, I hate to admit it, Bats is the man. Agility I'm going with Murdock. Panther's got that suit on that absorbs the impact of jumping and falling great heights. While DD has been doing all that with just a billy club.

juggernaut74
Batman is the only real human in this list. The other three are altered one way or another.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Batman is the only real human in this list. The other three are altered one way or another.

BP isn't altered.

juggernaut74
BP has enhanced strength and various other stuff due to the "special herds" he takes.

srankmissingnin
Batman is peak human in most respects (save agility), Cap is peak in most but he is enhanced past peak in a few areas (like strength), Black Panther is also enhanced past peak in some areas (like agility) and DD is peak all across the charts.

DD is the pinicle of peak human IMO. He is Batman + Nightwing in one bundle while Cap and DD are above him or even with him in every way the have been enhaced by the SSS and magic herbs.

Skill goes to Cap or DD.

leonheartmm
i think daredevil isnt really on par with these guys for some reason.

srankmissingnin
He can't compeat with BP or Cap but he would feed it to Bats in a physical confrontation baring prep or utility belt.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
BP has enhanced strength and various other stuff due to the "special herds" he takes.

Comparing natural herbs to radioactive substances and a "super soldier serum?" It's not like he's on steroids. BP isn't enhanced.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
BP isn't enhanced. Somebody else wanna handle this?

leonheartmm
uhhh i dunno about u sranks but i think that batman is atleast overall on the level of cap if not better.

Sentry
Daredevil takes it here for AGILITY only.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Somebody else wanna handle this?

If Batman drank a protien shake, would that be considered "enhanced?" I'm sure BP is no more health conscious than Batman is.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
If Batman drank a protien shake, would that be considered "enhanced?" I'm sure BP is no more health conscious than Batman is. Ok.

juggernaut74
Exact quote from the 2005 Marvel Knights Hanbook "TChallas senses and physical attributes have been enhanced to near-superhuman levels by the heart-shaped herb"

I dont think you can buy those herbs at your local GNC.

leonheartmm
no PANTHER is enhaced, but hes still supposedly under superhuman or metahuman level, hes still human.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by leonheartmm
hes still human. All four of these guys are human

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Exact quote from the 2005 Marvel Knights Hanbook "TChallas senses and physical attributes have been enhanced to near-superhuman levels by the heart-shaped herb"

I dont think you can buy those herbs at your local GNC.

Whoops. embarrasment

jplatinum
Overall, Cap.

LordFear
I say probably Black Panther, Cap, Batman then DD.
I have seen BP hand Cap his ass.
So he to me is number one.

Metalmanx
This is actually a pretty good match I think. All of these guys are pretty much on par with each other. Now you just must factor in those very slight differences between them all.

To me, this is more of a Captain America/Black Panther battle. Both have been enhanced to peak human, pretty much the exact strength levels. Black Panther definitely has the agility on his side, while Cap has the tactics on his. Then you have to factor in their gadgets/weapons. Cap has the shield, which has proven to be quite the useful weapon/defense, while BP has his energy knife, his indestructable claws, his suit which absorbs kinetic energy.

Hm..tough one indeed.

I think I may have to go with Black Panther on this one. Then a VERY close second is Cap. Then uh...DareDevil I think. And a very close one to him, Batman.

All in a all, a good match-up.

Draco69
This isn't really a fight anyhoo.

My opinion Batman or Black Panther.

Daredevil would get taken out first.

Batman would probably stay in the back, corraling the others to beat each other to death. Captain America would most likely go after Black Panther because he's the likely threat (he doesn't know Batman). Batman would then finish off who's ever left standing. He's a cheating bastard.

Banner
Originally posted by Draco69
This isn't really a fight anyhoo.

My opinion Batman or Black Panther.

Daredevil would get taken out first.

Batman would probably stay in the back, corraling the others to beat each other to death. Captain America would most likely go after Black Panther because he's the likely threat (he doesn't know Batman). Batman would then finish off who's ever left standing. He's a cheating bastard.

I agree about Daredevil.

I doubt Captain America would immediately go after Black Panther right off the bat. ( Ha! I made a funny! ) You have to remember that Captain America has always been a man of great integrity and has loyalty to the people he respects as well as those he considers friends. T'Challa is one of those people he considers a friend. Not only that, they were BOTH standing Avengers and so a sense of camaraderie is between them.

As I see it Black Panther and Captain America would be more likely to take on the unknown adversary, Batman, than each other. Why would two men who respect one another be the first ones to go at each other? It makes no sense and doesn't fit Caps personality considering he'd be more loyal to an Inactive AVENGER than Batman. Then....Panther would clock Rogers from behind when he wasn't looking and steal the gold. Panther does whatever he's gotta do to win. The ends justify the means. wink

theflyxx
Black Panther followed closely by Cap, the Batman, and then Daredevil.

MERCILOUS
I say Bats, only cause he did it all natural. Cap used the serum, BP used the herbs, and DD has super senses. Batman achieved the same level with nothing but hard work.

Superherovandal
yup he is the real peak human.

jplatinum
Cap still wins in overall ability.

Fanboy
DD is not altered either only his senses and all the physical stuff was due to training but I gotta say Captain America is the most altered out of all of them.

Mainstream
Originally posted by leonheartmm
yea but black panther has the highest agility.

Black power

but batman cool so I gotta go with Bat power

8bitChris
Cap is not considered Superhuman?

Daredevil has superhuman senses.

BP has "enhancements". BP is Marvel's Batman. But I think BP has the edge here. He was born to fight and trained since birth. Not to mention his vibranium armor which would absorb impact and his anti-metal claws or whatever he has that will shred Batman's suit like tin foil. BP is also richer than Bruce.

I'd say BP would take it. Then Cap. Between Batman or DD it could go either way. Both of them just clean up dirty alleys for their dayjob.

Mainstream
Originally posted by 8bitChris
Cap is not considered Superhuman?

Daredevil has superhuman senses.

BP has "enhancements". BP is Marvel's Batman. But I think BP has the edge here. He was born to fight and trained since birth. Not to mention his vibranium armor which would absorb impact and his anti-metal claws or whatever he has that will shred Batman's suit like tin foil. BP is also richer than Bruce.

I'd say BP would take it. Then Cap. Between Batman or DD it could go either way. Both of them just clean up dirty alleys for their dayjob.

Cap peak human...I don't recall ever seeing him lift 10 ton bounders or 8 ton mini vans.

8bitChris
I thought cap was at least in the 2,000-5,000 pound range...

K3VIL
Originally posted by 8bitChris
I thought cap was at least in the 2,000-5,000 pound range...
Never been that strong.2,000 Pounds means Class 1Ton, and 5,000 means near Class 3 Tons.
Captain America has always been Class 800 Pounds/Lbs.
The only one who received the super soldier serum obtaining powers above those of Cap was Nomad, that gained Class 1Ton of strenght.

Dizzle
What's the setting for the fight? If stealth can be used at all, it'll come down to BP and Batman, with Panther coming out on top. With his fancy little gadgets, I'm thinking that Batman could beat Cap. Panther's still probly a little much for him though. Id go Panther, Bats, Cap, DD. And I thought DD was only an Olympian athlete level in most stuff...

Wanderer259
Wasn't Batman taking venom at one point? I wouldn't say he's done everything the natural way.

If we're going to say we don't care how a person got to the way they are, it's Captain America. Batman, for instance, might be peak human, but Captain America is supposed to be peak human capability. There is a difference.

For Bruce Wayne, he has pushed his body to reach the level it is fully capable of. He is therefore technically at peak human ability, but that's for him. Steve Rogers' physical stature was augmented so that it represented the finest physical human specimen the world has ever known. For Steve Rogers, it's the equivalent of having the best physical genetics, the perfect training regimen, and all the time in the world. He is the physical ideal for an ordinary human. Technically, though it may not be by much, he's the strongest, fastest, etc. of them all.

Otherwise, I say Batman. Daredevil has incredible agility, but Batman has the entire package.

ZephroCarnelian
Captain America is the best physically here.

But I think that Bats is the best - seeing as how his body hasn't been altered in any way, by design or accident - he's simply honed his body to perfection through sheer hard graft.

That makes him the best in my book.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Comparing natural herbs to radioactive substances and a "super soldier serum?" It's not like he's on steroids. BP isn't enhanced. Your a funny guy Cosmic Happy Dance

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
BP isn't altered. This is funny too Happy Dance

Nataku8188
Panther is beyond peak human.
Daredevil's enhanced senses give him an edge in agility.
I'd say Batman is the best peak human, because he got that way naturally. All the others had an outside intereference.

juggernaut74
I know BP is beyond peakhuman.

I was just proving something to Cosmic Cube.

He will know what I mean.

Piedmon
I never heard anywhere that Daredevil was "peak human," (though obviously he preforms feats that no real-world athlete could imitate. The marvel idea of a peak human is naturally far above the reality).

In terms of physical strength and endurance, Cap is the best peak human. Black Panther wins out in speed and agility. Batman has the most thorough mastery of the martial arts and the best technique precision.

Metalmanx
I still think

Black Panther
Captain America
Daredevil
Batman

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I know BP is beyond peakhuman.

I was just proving something to Cosmic Cube.

He will know what I mean.

Get over yourself. roll eyes (sarcastic)

K3VIL
Ranks:
Daredevil Class 500 lbs or around it
Black Panther Class 750 lbs, but his speed and senses are superhuman thanks to the Panther God and the herbs of Wakanda
Batman is Class 750 lbs and equal to BP except for the speed sector and reflexes
Captain America is Class 800 Lbs and real peak human condition, but obtained through enhancements, so the truth peak human guy is Batman.

Mider
Wanna know who the actual best peak human is????? Dr Steven Strange :P

cherry cola
batman to me is what humans strive to be because he became that way naturally. So I believe him to be the best peak human. According to this list however I think BP is suppose to be a notch above batman. so I think best to least it is
Black Panther
Captain America
Batman
Daredevill

8bitChris
Captain America would be on Batman's level naturally. You guys are making it sound like Steve Rogers doesn't adhere to one of the strictest work out and training regimes in existence. smile

To tell the truth, if we were to rationalize how much time Steve or Bruce has to work out, i'd say Steve has more.

Cap doesn't run a gigantic corporation during the day, and he doesn't do regular patrols of the city at night looking for muggers. He just responds to action whenever he gets a call for the most part. The rest of his time is spent working out from what i've read haha.

cherry cola
it took cap taking a formula to become that way and bruce trained from and early age till now to become batman even though cap may work more I stil consider batman to be the better peak human because he had to work at it.

8bitChris
Cap would be in the same league as Bats if he wasn't altered was the arguement I was trying to make.

CorderaMitchell
Steven strange is a great peakhuman.

Wanderer259
Just wanted to mention, lately, Batman has stated he wasn't able to lift 650 lbs. obstacle, taking his strength level down from what we thought. I'd say he's able to bench 600 lbs max, which makes him stronger or as strong as Daredevil, but weaker than BP or Cap.

black wolverine
im pretty sure batman is the only human on the list DD was human once but not no more and same wit cap and BP yadamean

Tron
Originally posted by Sentry
When it comes to peak human physical stature, Cap is the Man. Skill and Technique, I hate to admit it, Bats is the man. Agility I'm going with Murdock. Panther's got that suit on that absorbs the impact of jumping and falling great heights. While DD has been doing all that with just a billy club.

Black Panther was matching Daredevil in agility long before he even thought about that Vibranium suit.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Tron
Black Panther was matching Daredevil in agility long before he even thought about that Vibranium suit.

More them matching him, he flat out said the only way DD could keep up was if he let him.

Xplosive
Black panther is geneticly more gifted than those three.

last_samurai_44
Technically, Captain America would take due to the fact his shield is indestructable and the super-soldier serum.

last_samurai_44
And Captain America does work for the greatest military force ever known to man: the U.S. Army

yugotank
Captain America and Black Panther are "Enhanced Peak human".
Key word: Enhanced

BP gets some kind of power from the Panther God and smoking some African hemp.
The good Captain shoots up some Super Steroid to keep him young and strong.Nick Fury too..

I would say the Batman and Daredevil are "true" peak humans .
Batman a tad stronger than DD -
DD a tad quicker than Batman -

But both are peak but not the only ones in the comic world.
What about Tarzan,Conan,Phantom,Nightwing,Bullseye etc

Is "peak human" only for men?
What about Batgirl and Blck Widow?

As far a peak human goes. If you're the strongest can you be the fastest? I do not think so.......Correct me if I'm wrong!

spetznaz
Originally posted by yugotank
Captain America and Black Panther are "Enhanced Peak human".
Key word: Enhanced

BP gets some kind of power from the Panther God and smoking some African hemp.
The good Captain shoots up some Super Steroid to keep him young and strong.Nick Fury too..

I would say the Batman and Daredevil are "true" peak humans .
Batman a tad stronger than DD -
DD a tad quicker than Batman -

But both are peak but not the only ones in the comic world.
What about Tarzan,Conan,Phantom,Nightwing,Bullseye etc

Is "peak human" only for men?
What about Batgirl and Blck Widow?

As far a peak human goes. If you're the strongest can you be the fastest? I do not think so.......Correct me if I'm wrong!

You have good points.

For one, Batman is the only one who is truly peak human .....although to be honest 'peak human' in comics is a bit of a joke as far as I am concerned. More on that later.

Anyways, Batman is the only one who did not take any 'enhancements' As stated, Black Panther is on the heart herb, Steve was a skinny soldier when he 'volunteered' for the Super-soldier Serume, and Matt's accident had a side-effect in that the radiactive goo that took away his sight enhanced his other senses to a level far beyond human.

Now, this is not to say that the three have not been training. Matt went through Stick, Cap has had years upon years of training, and T'Challa is not exactly a herbal addict. But all of them wouldn't be where they are now without those 'additives.'

Batman got where he was through hard work.

Now, as stated, Peak Human in comics is a misnomer. Batman for instance, a 'peak human,' has done stuff (like giving a tree a karate chop and cleaving it into two) that are quite literally beyond Superhuman. But this is comics we are talking about, and all of the characters listed have done feats that are simply as far beyond human as one can get without shooting laser beams from your eyes!

Anyways, in terms of peak human it would have to be Batman. He got there without the use of any super-herb, without the need of a near-metamorphic Super-serum (nigh metamorphic because Steve did not even LOOK like he does now before he took the Serum ....it literally changed his whole bio-organic architecture ....almost like those DNA mutagenic drugs in Batman Beyond), and DareDevil (while having a lot of traditional training) is also beyond human due to the effects of the radioactive goop on his biology.

Then you have Batman .....no mystical herb, no super-science wonder-drug, and no sci-fi-esque 'radioactive accident' spiel going on for him. While the others may be where Batman is and beyond, they did not get their in the same way (actually beyond is several respects ....e.g. DD has better senses, and Cap simply cannot get tired ....something that would have been very beneficial to batman when Bane was sending all sorts of foes against Batman during the events leading up to KnightFall. Had Batman had Steve's ability to INSTANTLY metabolize away fatigue poisons, then the several-week assault that Bane orchestrated wouldn't have worked, and Batman would have been at full potential when he finally went mano-a-mano against Bane. He wasn't, and he ended up with a broken back and a LONG way back to where he was. Actually that shows another thing ....Bruce had to work TWICE to be peak human ....his initial training, and what he had to do after KnightFall).


The others are better than Batman in certain physiological effects (e.g. while Batman can detect a sniper's bullet by the overpressure in the air, Daredevil can detect an individual human heartbeat many blocks away in the middle of a crowd; Steve's superior 'human' body; T'Challa's super-senses). However Batman is the only 'peak human' who got there without any outside 'help.'

And that counts for something.

Alfheim
I think The Punisher could be considered to be peak human.

Daredevil1
Batman is a peak-athlete

Daredevil is a peak-athlete


Black Panther is at peak human potential(enhanced by herb)

Captain America is at peak human potential(enhanced by SSS)

Juntai
Originally posted by spetznaz
You have good points.

For one, Batman is the only one who is truly peak human .....although to be honest 'peak human' in comics is a bit of a joke as far as I am concerned. More on that later.

Anyways, Batman is the only one who did not take any 'enhancements' As stated, Black Panther is on the heart herb, Steve was a skinny soldier when he 'volunteered' for the Super-soldier Serume, and Matt's accident had a side-effect in that the radiactive goo that took away his sight enhanced his other senses to a level far beyond human.

Now, this is not to say that the three have not been training. Matt went through Stick, Cap has had years upon years of training, and T'Challa is not exactly a herbal addict. But all of them wouldn't be where they are now without those 'additives.'

Batman got where he was through hard work.

Now, as stated, Peak Human in comics is a misnomer. Batman for instance, a 'peak human,' has done stuff (like giving a tree a karate chop and cleaving it into two) that are quite literally beyond Superhuman. But this is comics we are talking about, and all of the characters listed have done feats that are simply as far beyond human as one can get without shooting laser beams from your eyes!

Anyways, in terms of peak human it would have to be Batman. He got there without the use of any super-herb, without the need of a near-metamorphic Super-serum (nigh metamorphic because Steve did not even LOOK like he does now before he took the Serum ....it literally changed his whole bio-organic architecture ....almost like those DNA mutagenic drugs in Batman Beyond), and DareDevil (while having a lot of traditional training) is also beyond human due to the effects of the radioactive goop on his biology.

Then you have Batman .....no mystical herb, no super-science wonder-drug, and no sci-fi-esque 'radioactive accident' spiel going on for him. While the others may be where Batman is and beyond, they did not get their in the same way (actually beyond is several respects ....e.g. DD has better senses, and Cap simply cannot get tired ....something that would have been very beneficial to batman when Bane was sending all sorts of foes against Batman during the events leading up to KnightFall. Had Batman had Steve's ability to INSTANTLY metabolize away fatigue poisons, then the several-week assault that Bane orchestrated wouldn't have worked, and Batman would have been at full potential when he finally went mano-a-mano against Bane. He wasn't, and he ended up with a broken back and a LONG way back to where he was. Actually that shows another thing ....Bruce had to work TWICE to be peak human ....his initial training, and what he had to do after KnightFall).


The others are better than Batman in certain physiological effects (e.g. while Batman can detect a sniper's bullet by the overpressure in the air, Daredevil can detect an individual human heartbeat many blocks away in the middle of a crowd; Steve's superior 'human' body; T'Challa's super-senses). However Batman is the only 'peak human' who got there without any outside 'help.'

And that counts for something. thumb up

golem370
Is Daredevil,Batman or Black Panther this agile? Just asking

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h171/golem370/thesearchforshehulk182oc.jpg

Maybe I am mistaking his agility for the shields smile

Hitman911
If they were being interrogated by ruthless criminals i think Bats would fair the best due to his superhuman will and mind strength. Dont tell me that his concentration is not superhuman. His focus can't be matched by normal people save monks.

Daredevil1
Originally posted by spetznaz
You have good points.

For one, Batman is the only one who is truly peak human .....although to be honest 'peak human' in comics is a bit of a joke as far as I am concerned. More on that later.

Anyways, Batman is the only one who did not take any 'enhancements' As stated, Black Panther is on the heart herb, Steve was a skinny soldier when he 'volunteered' for the Super-soldier Serume, and Matt's accident had a side-effect in that the radiactive goo that took away his sight enhanced his other senses to a level far beyond human.

Now, this is not to say that the three have not been training. Matt went through Stick, Cap has had years upon years of training, and T'Challa is not exactly a herbal addict. But all of them wouldn't be where they are now without those 'additives.'

Batman got where he was through hard work.

Now, as stated, Peak Human in comics is a misnomer. Batman for instance, a 'peak human,' has done stuff (like giving a tree a karate chop and cleaving it into two) that are quite literally beyond Superhuman. But this is comics we are talking about, and all of the characters listed have done feats that are simply as far beyond human as one can get without shooting laser beams from your eyes!

Anyways, in terms of peak human it would have to be Batman. He got there without the use of any super-herb, without the need of a near-metamorphic Super-serum (nigh metamorphic because Steve did not even LOOK like he does now before he took the Serum ....it literally changed his whole bio-organic architecture ....almost like those DNA mutagenic drugs in Batman Beyond), and DareDevil (while having a lot of traditional training) is also beyond human due to the effects of the radioactive goop on his biology.

Then you have Batman .....no mystical herb, no super-science wonder-drug, and no sci-fi-esque 'radioactive accident' spiel going on for him. While the others may be where Batman is and beyond, they did not get their in the same way (actually beyond is several respects ....e.g. DD has better senses, and Cap simply cannot get tired ....something that would have been very beneficial to batman when Bane was sending all sorts of foes against Batman during the events leading up to KnightFall. Had Batman had Steve's ability to INSTANTLY metabolize away fatigue poisons, then the several-week assault that Bane orchestrated wouldn't have worked, and Batman would have been at full potential when he finally went mano-a-mano against Bane. He wasn't, and he ended up with a broken back and a LONG way back to where he was. Actually that shows another thing ....Bruce had to work TWICE to be peak human ....his initial training, and what he had to do after KnightFall).


The others are better than Batman in certain physiological effects (e.g. while Batman can detect a sniper's bullet by the overpressure in the air, Daredevil can detect an individual human heartbeat many blocks away in the middle of a crowd; Steve's superior 'human' body; T'Challa's super-senses). However Batman is the only 'peak human' who got there without any outside 'help.'

And that counts for something.

Good analysis. If its for natural peak-athlete then I do give it to Batman or characters like Shang-Chi, Richard Dragon etc.

Also thats a nice feat what issue did Batman detect a sniper's bullet by its overpressure?

Juntai
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Good analysis. If its for natural peak-athlete then I do give it to Batman or characters like Shang-Chi, Richard Dragon etc.

Also thats a nice feat what issue did Batman detect a sniper's bullet by its overpressure? He's done on multiple times actually I think, one I know of was in Detective Comics 804, but iirc I've seen scans of entirely different occasions.

Juntai
Originally posted by golem370
Is Daredevil,Batman or Black Panther this agile? Just asking
Did you ask if Batman can do a flip or jump and kick, or whatever he's doing?

Soljer
Originally posted by Juntai
Did you ask if Batman can do a flip or jump and kick, or whatever he's doing?

He thought the shield's path was the path Captain America was taking.

Which would be impressive, to say the least.

Anyways....Punisher isn't peak human. Daredevil isn't. Batman isn't.

They're all peak-athletes, which is a far cry different.

The only two true peak humans here are Steve and T'Challa.

Though you have to have respect for someone that CAN do it on his own. Bruce is crazy good....

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer


Anyways....Punisher isn't peak human. Daredevil isn't. Batman isn't.

They're all peak-athletes, which is a far cry different.


Sorry thats what I mean.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry thats what I mean.

Well, the Punisher isn't even quite on the level of Daredevil and Batman...erm.

I've seen the Punisher get straight up embarassed in the speed category by both Elektra and Captain America.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Well, the Punisher isn't even quite on the level of Daredevil and Batman...erm.

Well ive never seen him dodge bullets like Bats and DD ever, but if written properly he should be able to give them a good fight in terms of H2H. Anyway I think hes peak human in terms of durability, even IF commented on his durability.


Originally posted by Soljer

I've seen the Punisher get straight up embarassed in the speed category by both Elektra and Captain America.

Yeah and ive also seen Punsiher evade a suprise attack by Cap and use his speed and reflexes to turn the tables on Cap. Ive also seen Punisher embarrase Nightcrawler and Spiderman , but hes still being embarrased by Elecktra. What the f**k?

Like ive been saying some writers dont respect a characters history eg Dr Strange running from ninjas, saying part of KPs body is fat when its been stated over and over again its muscle.

BlueDMighty
Peak Human?

BP over Cap.

While the SS, training, and experience have made cap an ANIMAL.

He was introduced to the serum and training in his late teens/ early 20's.

BP has been training and studying to be the King for his entire life.
He was sharp even before he took the herb.

Also, His strength may or may not be from the herb.
It might just grant him super senses and agility.
correct me if I'm wrong.

golem370
I heard that that Bruce started as a Scientist and made a formula that increased his strength and gave him the strength to lift over head 600pounds.

Alfheim
Originally posted by BlueDMighty
Peak Human?

BP over Cap.

While the SS, training, and experience have made cap an ANIMAL.

He was introduced to the serum and training in his late teens/ early 20's.

BP has been training and studying to be the King for his entire life.
He was sharp even before he took the herb.

Also, His strength may or may not be from the herb.
It might just grant him super senses and agility.
correct me if I'm wrong.

Well from what ive seen of the current BP in comics he probably is better than Cap.

Faceman
Originally posted by BlueDMighty
Peak Human?

BP over Cap.

While the SS, training, and experience have made cap an ANIMAL.

He was introduced to the serum and training in his late teens/ early 20's.

BP has been training and studying to be the King for his entire life.
He was sharp even before he took the herb.

Also, His strength may or may not be from the herb.
It might just grant him super senses and agility.
correct me if I'm wrong.

The Black Panther is near the pinnicle of human physical perfection, his natural strength and abilities having been heightened by an unidentified heart-shaped herb administered only to Wakandan kings during a sacred ascension ritual. THe herb is also only in Wakanda. While not superhuman, he is nearly as strong as a human being can become.

golem370
Originally posted by Juntai
Did you ask if Batman can do a flip or jump and kick, or whatever he's doing?

Well he did track the movements of the shield and was able to catch up with it after Hulk hit it or tossed it.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Faceman
The Black Panther is near the pinnicle of human physical perfection, his natural strength and abilities having been heightened by unidentified heart-shaped herb administered only to Wakandan kings during a sacred ascension ritual. THe herb os also only in Wakanda. While not superhuman, he is nearly as strong as a human being can become.

Well enhanced....

jrodslam
Im going to have to give Bats and DD the top slots. As mentioned before, they naturally trained to get as strong as they are, or as fast and agilie they are. Nor do they wear suits that give them any type of enhancement(save for body armor or extra padding).

For being enhaced, i dont know of many Panther strength feats. Also, for training naturally, Bruce and Matt arent that far behind in strength. I tihnk DD is the most agile of the 4, while running speed may go to Cap.

Apolloknight
Originally posted by jrodslam
Im going to have to give Bats and DD the top slots. As mentioned before, they naturally trained to get as strong as they are, or as fast and agilie they are. Nor do they wear suits that give them any type of enhancement(save for body armor or extra padding).



You see Jrod, that shows how much you know about T'challa. I'll get to Steve later but as for T'challa, He has been training in combat since he was 4 years old (think the movie 300 here). By the age of 14, he was able to take down numerous guards, without them even knowing mind you, and take on the Bonefied SuperHuman "Bull". (I wish I could find the dang issue I would post the scans). By the age of 17, T'challa had already mastered dozens of martial arts, and mastered his own unique style of wakandan martial arts (which involves aspects of animal mimicry, meaning he was crawling and leaping on all fours like a panther, which also means he had to be supremely agile before the ingestion of the herb to perform such maneuvers, and not to mention have them actually be effective in unarmed combat) which by the way, he used to take down 6 of Wakanda's greatest warriors, then take on the Current black panther (who was enhanced by the Heart shaped Herb) and defeated him.

T'challa, by the age of 17, was already at Bruce and Matt's level, before Bruce and Matt were even at their current levels, which is Peak "Athlete".

The ingestion of the Herb only served to Vault T'challa past a level they will never achieve, which is the "Enhanced" or "low level" superhuman area.


Originally posted by jrodslam

For being enhaced, i dont know of many Panther strength feats. Also, for training naturally, Bruce and Matt arent that far behind in strength. I tihnk DD is the most agile of the 4, while running speed may go to Cap.

You see thats the problem with you Jrod, you sit here and say, "Well, I look at DD feats and he has feats that match these guys blah blah blah, so he is on there level".

Well he isn't, for the simple fact that it isn't his character. Yes it is true, Steve was but a frail boy before he took the SSS, but afterward......and pay attention here.....He became the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" he became the "MOST PERFECT HUMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH" in fact, the greatest athletes on the earth would still be a rung below steve, because he was made to be "WHAT HUMANS COULD NEVER ACHIEVE WITHOUT OUTSIDE ENHANCEMENT" .

Yes, DD has comparable feats to both BP and Steve, but all 4 of these guys have comparable agility feats to Spiderman, does it mean they are on spidermans level? No, why?

Because it isnt apart of their character.

Steve is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in strength , he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in speed, and he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in AGILITY.

To say DD is more agile then steve, is to say DD is SUPERHUMAN, which he isnt.

Sorry, My Tier goes.

BP
Cap
DD=BM

jrodslam
Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see Jrod, that shows how much you know about T'challa. I'll get to Steve later but as for T'challa, He has been training in combat since he was 4 years old (think the movie 300 here). By the age of 14, he was able to take down numerous guards, without them even knowing mind you, and take on the Bonefied SuperHuman "Bull". (I wish I could find the dang issue I would post the scans). By the age of 17, T'challa had already mastered dozens of martial arts, and mastered his own unique style of wakandan martial arts (which involves aspects of animal mimicry, meaning he was crawling and leaping on all fours like a panther, which also means he had to be supremely agile before the ingestion of the herb to perform such maneuvers, and not to mention have them actually be effective in unarmed combat) which by the way, he used to take down 6 of Wakanda's greatest warriors, then take on the Current black panther (who was enhanced by the Heart shaped Herb) and defeated him.

T'challa, by the age of 17, was already at Bruce and Matt's level, before Bruce and Matt were even at their current levels, which is Peak "Athlete".

The ingestion of the Herb only served to Vault T'challa past a level they will never achieve, which is the "Enhanced" or "low level" superhuman area.

Maybe im missing something here. But in my post, i mentioned Bats and DD training to get their stats physically. Youre posting about Panthers combat training and skills? As ive asked you in other debates, an you PLEASE mention the dozens of martial arts Panther mastered before he was 17. Just do that. T'Challa at 17 was already at Matt and Bruce's level? So going by your logic, he must be way past their level now huh? All i need is your conformation and im calling it a day with this. Thats the most absurd thing ive ever heard.



Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see thats the problem with you Jrod, you sit here and say, "Well, I look at DD feats and he has feats that match these guys blah blah blah, so he is on there level".

Well he isn't, for the simple fact that it isn't his character. Yes it is true, Steve was but a frail boy before he took the SSS, but afterward......and pay attention here.....He became the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" he became the "MOST PERFECT HUMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH" in fact, the greatest athletes on the earth would still be a rung below steve, because he was made to be "WHAT HUMANS COULD NEVER ACHIEVE WITHOUT OUTSIDE ENHANCEMENT" .

Yes, DD has comparable feats to both BP and Steve, but all 4 of these guys have comparable agility feats to Spiderman, does it mean they are on spidermans level? No, why?

Because it isnt apart of their character.

Steve is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in strength , he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in speed, and he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in AGILITY.

To say DD is more agile then steve, is to say DD is SUPERHUMAN, which he isnt.

Sorry, My Tier goes.

BP
Cap
DD=BM

Others can be to the level of Cap physically. Maybe not as all around, but it is possible, save for the endurance part maybe. You have to remember that Cap was created before most of these heroes out here. Cap was supposed to be the human with the best agility, strength, stamina a normal human can achieve. However as characters contnued to be created, they didnt pay attention to the "statistical creation" of Captain America. The creaters said "screw it" and made the DD's more agile than Cap, and the Kingpins stronger than Cap, etc.

I call a spade a spade. Of the 100's of Daredevil comics and 100's of Captain America comics, DD seems to clearly be the more agile, im going to say DD is more agile. Despite what Cap is "suppose" to be. Remember, Cap was created over half a century ago. These 4 guys have COMPARABLE agility feats to Spiderman, but Spideys agility fears are on a higher level than theirs. Thats what separates them. Who says anyone of them are as agile as Spidey? No one. But when its asked whos the closest thing to him by human standards, Daredevils name is the one whos mentioned.

Your tier is your tier.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by jrodslam
Maybe im missing something here. But in my post, i mentioned Bats and DD training to get their stats physically. Youre posting about Panthers combat training and skills? As ive asked you in other debates, an you PLEASE mention the dozens of martial arts Panther mastered before he was 17. Just do that. T'Challa at 17 was already at Matt and Bruce's level? So going by your logic, he must be way past their level now huh? All i need is your conformation and im calling it a day with this. Thats the most absurd thing ive ever heard.





Others can be to the level of Cap physically. Maybe not as all around, but it is possible, save for the endurance part maybe. You have to remember that Cap was created before most of these heroes out here. Cap was supposed to be the human with the best agility, strength, stamina a normal human can achieve. However as characters contnued to be created, they didnt pay attention to the "statistical creation" of Captain America. The creaters said "screw it" and made the DD's more agile than Cap, and the Kingpins stronger than Cap, etc.

I call a spade a spade. Of the 100's of Daredevil comics and 100's of Captain America comics, DD seems to clearly be the more agile, im going to say DD is more agile. Despite what Cap is "suppose" to be. Remember, Cap was created over half a century ago. These 4 guys have COMPARABLE agility feats to Spiderman, but Spideys agility fears are on a higher level than theirs. Thats what separates them. Who says anyone of them are as agile as Spidey? No one. But when its asked whos the closest thing to him by human standards, Daredevils name is the one whos mentioned.

Your tier is your tier.
good post jrod

the-mr-killer
cap is peak

godking
take out cap and panther and put in taskmaster elektra chang chi Shiva ect and its a better debate.

panther and cap are beyond what a human can achieve without special help.

Soljer
Shang Chi? The guy that blocked a punch from a Hulk-level baddie?

Yeah, that'd be a BAD idea.

killerhero5712
I want to know which comic book stated that cap is "what humans could never do without outside enhancement" because that statement is bullshit because characters like michale van patrick, bruce wayne and doc savage exist and they are all as peak as cap is. Heck cap was inspired by characters like them. Bruce wayne is a character inspired by doc savage as well. They both went through a revoloutionary diet and exercise to get where their at. So bottomline where is the bullshit quote about the outside enhancement thing I mentioned earlier, which comic did you get it from? Dude apolloknight you posted it earlier so you probably know where you got it from, correct?

Blue Area Vet
Cap and BP >>> peak human

killerhero5712
I hope my question gets answered lol, because I joined this website to actually get the answer to my question. I mean this website is pretty cool oherwise as well, incase I need some news for movies.

Supermex
You have heard that Panther is the only guy on this list that can fight with Spider-Man or Namor and even maybe win ?

krisblaze
Is it fair to count Panther?

He was already close to peak human before eating the herb.

Supermex
I say Black Panther then Cap..
Bats and DD are even at the moment..

Supermutant
Better peak human in stats?

Black Panther
Cap
Bruce
Matt

Although I don't consider BP peak human anymore. Cap never has been with SSS.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by Supermutant
Better peak human in stats?

Black Panther
Cap
Bruce
Matt

Although I don't consider BP peak human anymore. Cap never has been with SSS.

Panther was always > peak human. Always starting with his fight with the FF.

pym-ftw
T'challa & Steve are solid metas

DD is a Meta kinda but its balenced.

T'challa

Steve

Bruce & Bucky
Matt
Dick
Sam

cdtm
Back in 2005, I think Srank got it right.

Matt's pretty much the textbook definition of "peak". He's an all 'rounder that excells in virtually all areas of speed, agility, strength, speed.

While Cap, Batman, and Panther are more specialists (Cap being kind of tanky and strong, but also skilled, while Bats and Panther are prep gods with top end h2h combat skills)

killerhero5712
Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see Jrod, that shows how much you know about T'challa. I'll get to Steve later but as for T'challa, He has been training in combat since he was 4 years old (think the movie 300 here). By the age of 14, he was able to take down numerous guards, without them even knowing mind you, and take on the Bonefied SuperHuman "Bull". (I wish I could find the dang issue I would post the scans). By the age of 17, T'challa had already mastered dozens of martial arts, and mastered his own unique style of wakandan martial arts (which involves aspects of animal mimicry, meaning he was crawling and leaping on all fours like a panther, which also means he had to be supremely agile before the ingestion of the herb to perform such maneuvers, and not to mention have them actually be effective in unarmed combat) which by the way, he used to take down 6 of Wakanda's greatest warriors, then take on the Current black panther (who was enhanced by the Heart shaped Herb) and defeated him.

T'challa, by the age of 17, was already at Bruce and Matt's level, before Bruce and Matt were even at their current levels, which is Peak "Athlete".

The ingestion of the Herb only served to Vault T'challa past a level they will never achieve, which is the "Enhanced" or "low level" superhuman area.




You see thats the problem with you Jrod, you sit here and say, "Well, I look at DD feats and he has feats that match these guys blah blah blah, so he is on there level".

Well he isn't, for the simple fact that it isn't his character. Yes it is true, Steve was but a frail boy before he took the SSS, but afterward......and pay attention here.....He became the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" he became the "MOST PERFECT HUMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH" in fact, the greatest athletes on the earth would still be a rung below steve, because he was made to be "WHAT HUMANS COULD NEVER ACHIEVE WITHOUT OUTSIDE ENHANCEMENT" .

Yes, DD has comparable feats to both BP and Steve, but all 4 of these guys have comparable agility feats to Spiderman, does it mean they are on spidermans level? No, why?

Because it isnt apart of their character.

Steve is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in strength , he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in speed, and he is as high as a human can get without being superhuman in AGILITY.

To say DD is more agile then steve, is to say DD is SUPERHUMAN, which he isnt.

Sorry, My Tier goes.

BP
Cap
DD=BM



Read your PM bro I sent you something, oh and DD and batman are not the same, batman was always written as a peak human, the character of batman was inspired by doc savage. Doc savage is a well known peak human. Both batman and doc trained themselves to the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" . Even michael van patrick became the pinnacle of human perfection the same way batman and doc did. So cap being described as what humans could never achieve without outside enhancement is a clear fallacy.

Kamahamaha
Originally posted by killerhero5712
Read your PM bro I sent you something, oh and DD and batman are not the same, batman was always written as a peak human, the character of batman was inspired by doc savage. Doc savage is a well known peak human. Both batman and doc trained themselves to the "PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION" . Even michael van patrick became the pinnacle of human perfection the same way batman and doc did. So cap being described as what humans could never achieve without outside enhancement is a clear fallacy.

Unlikely he will as he last posted here half a decade ago according to his profile.

God Cloth Seiya
Panther
Cap
Batman
Daredevil

Fated Xtasy
I'm not very into comics, but i don't get why Daredevil is put so low.
I mean he has highly acute senses when compare to Batman and Panther. and well Cap is obviously stronger. but Dardevil shouldn't be that low imo. But again i'm not that into comics anymore so i'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to these things stick out tongue

killerhero5712
Originally posted by Kamahamaha
Unlikely he will as he last posted here half a decade ago according to his profile.

Thanks for telling me bro, I didnt realise lol. I just hope somebody can find out where that quote is from. The quote is cap is or was made to be what "humans could never achieve without outside enhacement". I would bless anyone if they could find this quote in a comic or anywhere in any comic, because all I know is that this quote is from a comic, most probably definately a cap comic. I just hope someone can find it. This goes out to cap fans also lol. However the quote is actually quite redundant because characters like bruce wayne, michael patrick and doc savage exist, so this means a revolutionary diet and ulimate isometric exercises can get you to caps level of physique as proven by batman, doc savage and michael van patrick.

Philosophía
Originally posted by cdtm
Back in 2005, I think Srank got it right.

Matt's pretty much the textbook definition of "peak". He's an all 'rounder that excells in virtually all areas of speed, agility, strength, speed.

While Cap, Batman, and Panther are more specialists (Cap being kind of tanky and strong, but also skilled, while Bats and Panther are prep gods with top end h2h combat skills) Batman is more specialized while Daredevil is an all-rounder?

Are you kidding me?

Batman is the comic book epitome of all rounder.

Prof. T.C McAbe
Batman, peak human, brain and body. The best there is.

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