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Martian Manhunter Vs Superman Who Wins?

MM. Telepathy. etc.

He already nearly beat the entire JLA as Fernus.

MM is one of the most underrated DC characters.....look at his array of powers....and yet he almost never gets the credit he deserves....but everyone will vote for sups just casue he is more popular...

Most people here know the deal with MM. He gets tons of respect here.
Remember when Superman admitted that MM could take him if he had to?

true...but still...this will turn more into a popularity contest.. people wont focus on their power..casue if they would its abvious MM would win..his speed and strength rival that of superman's + the other powers.....also he has alot more experience...

How stupid is this thread..

Is this a f****** joke or an insult.?

Superman all the way...

my point exactly...^

Originally posted by colossus17
MM is one of the most underrated DC characters.....look at his array of powers....and yet he almost never gets the credit he deserves....but everyone will vote for sups just casue he is more popular...




Originally posted by FistOfThe North
How stupid is this thread..

Is this a f****** joke or an insult.?

Superman all the way...]

Ignorance is depressing, isn't it?

Yep.

It seems everyone is JLA is close to superman.

Flash, WW, MM , GL

But when shit goes down Superman is always their top dawg.

It's the UNDERWEAR. It has some sort of magical super-duper power that makes him the top dawg. It's his pimp juice! His MOJO!

They are more like "overwear."

exactly my thoughts

MM cannot beat Superman. Period. I'm not saying MM sucks I know a good deal about his power. But to say that Superman would fall to MM is almost ludacris..

They know each others weaknesses. Supes is more powerful, but MM is not someone to be taken lightly. Supes has fought and beaten Martians before.

Supes would win this.

Martian Manhunter would win. A White Martian mindraped Superman, and Martian Manhunter is a hundred times more powerful than one of them.

Once, a White Martian made Superman think he was being exposed to Kryptonite. Superman started twitching on the ground and freaking out. Imagine what Jonn would do.

Martian Manhunter owns Superman.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
But to say that Superman would fall to MM is almost ludacris..

Why? I would have thought it ludicrous that Batman could beat him, but he did.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
MM cannot beat Superman. Period. I'm not saying MM sucks I know a good deal about his power. But to say that Superman would fall to MM is almost ludacris..

MM is Superman plus more.

And I've heard people say Superman has to many powers lol. Still MM would own Superman.

Telepathy, Intangibility, Martian Vision, and Shapeshifting = too much for Superman IMO.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Martian Manhunter would win. A White Martian mindraped Superman, and Martian Manhunter is a hundred times more powerful than one of them.

Once, a White Martian made Superman think he was being exposed to Kryptonite. Superman started twitching on the ground and freaking out. Imagine what Jonn would do.

You mean the very same Martian that Supes beat down at the end of the same issue? The same one who feared Supes once he *broke* out of the kryptonite illusion?

MM can stick his hand in Superman's chest and rip out his hart.

MM can turn into lois and get butt naked

I've always thought White Martians are less powerful than MM.
I'm not the keenest on Superman info, so what's the deal?

Whites>Greens?
Greens>Whites?
Whites=Greens?

Look at all this anti-Supermanism. lol

Or Martian Manhunter Fanboyism.

I cannot believe what I'm reading here, guys..bad thread, seriously.

I mean everyone's making Superman out to be this ragdoll when everyone know that that wont be the case.

I find it funny how Superman is always saying everyone can beat him. It's like he's either being nice or saying "You are more powerful than me but you will never be written that way."

He likes to mock people

No. He just likes to 'big up' other people lol.

Like Seanbaby says on his Superfriends site - why the hell do u need the rest of the superfriends when you've got superman?

Back to the fight...

J'Onn's strength and speed can possibly rival Supes' - but only for a very short while. He gains strength etc by telepathically altering his molecular structure and he can only maintain it for a very short while.

And Martian Vision? Pah...

What gives MM the edge in this fight is his telepathy. I personally put MM above Xavier when it comes to psychic powers, n I know a lot of people agree with me.

It depends on Supes' willpower I think...

He's forced psychics out of his mind in the past - powerful ones too - and he's managed to break through illusions etc.

It's a good matchup.

Physically Supes would kick his arse, lol. But J'Onnz could somehow trap Supes in an illusion or something like that, then I don't see why he doesn't stand a good chance.

I'd say 5/10 each way on this.

Good match.

Did I miss something in the JLA timeline, or did J'onn overcome his fear and extreme vulnerability to fire?
One of Superman's more fearsome abilities is his heat vision, and that is directly akin to fire.

Now, I'm not saying that this alone would win the day for him, but it's certainly something MM would have to take into account.

j'onn overcame his fear of fire in "trial by fire"

martian manhunter don't need to keep up his strength and speed when he has intangibility and telepathy

Well, okay. Let's take his Strength and Speed out of the equation then.

We're left with Intangiblity and Telepathy.

Now arguably, Supes can't counter these.

If MMs intangible then all of Supes speed and strength are useless. And telepathy renders his invulnerability useless too, lol.

Can J'Onn use his telepathy whilst he is intangible? Has this been done before?

And where Flash when you need him? lol! He's good at dredging up Supes' past feats: Check some instances for us where Supes has beaten telepaths before!

Superman and Ultraman are pretty similar aren't they?........ well MM beat the sh!t out of Ultraman in Earth 2... or Earth X... or whatever it's called

Okay, but he only overcame his fear. His actual vulnerability to fire is still very much present (unless, of course, it turned out to be simply a manifestation of his fear, which seems to be quite a popular gimmick).

Nonetheless, as ZephroCarnelian said, the only two really important powers that MM has to use against Supes are intangibility and telepathy.

So here we come down to it. We're pitting a mentally powerful character against a physically powerful character. (Granted, MM's physical capabilities are nothing to sneeze at, but he's still not on a level with Superman).

In a purely physical fight, Superman takes this without too much trouble. If J'onn utilizes his intangibility, that only brings about a stalemate.
But Martian Manhunter obviously wins in the mental arena.

And if this is an all-out, then it's dependent on Superman's initiative roll. If he is able to act quickly enough, he could let loose on Martian Manhunter and take him out before any telepathic attacks could be performed. But if he's slow or holds back, he's in serious trouble.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/ddrx25hz.jpg

Actually, Supes has learned "intangibility" himself by phasing with his superspeed. A trick he learned from Flash..he is him using it on Doomsday.

That doesn't look like intangibility. It looks like he's dodging the attacks extremely quickly. If he were intangible, he would be devoid of mass.

Look at the first picture. Doomsday swings through him. And Doomsday never felt pain before?? He felt pain when they first fought. Single most dumbest thing to do. Make Doomsday smart...And then make him help Superman against Gog, and do the Vegeta "Only I can kill you" thing.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That doesn't look like intangibility. It looks like he's dodging the attacks extremely quickly. If he were intangible, he would be devoid of mass.

He's in the fire..the fire goes through him. He didn't dodge it or get out of its way...what would u call it?

Where is that fire coming from? Doomsday? When does Doomsday have fire breath?

Yep..he has firebreath now...
Also if u notice in the first panel...Supes is transclusent and Doomies fist if going through him.

Fire breath...great. If becoming able to think wasn't bad enough.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Superman and Ultraman are pretty similar aren't they?........ well MM beat the sh!t out of Ultraman in Earth 2... or Earth X... or whatever it's called


No Ultraman gets his powers from Kryptonite Superman gets weakened by kryptonite and Ultraman did not get his Daily kryptonite charge that is the main reason he got his taint handed to him. Ultraman would have won but his stupid ass forgot to get recharged after got free of Kyle Rayner giant Green lantern hands on the moon.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/ddrx25hz.jpg

Actually, Supes has learned "intangibility" himself by phasing with his superspeed. A trick he learned from Flash..he is him using it on Doomsday.

What is coming out of Doomsdays mouth?

Superman has taken MM.


Superman wins

Originally posted by Greenlight
Martian Manhunter owns Superman.


slavery still legal on Mars? lol kool-msn

Those scans are why i can't take DC seriously. They had the ultimate weapon, truly undefeatable by tradtional methods. Then they gotta butcher his character and take away what made him unique just so they could show Superman as stronger.......Psshhhht! Superman is truly the spoiled child in that universe. DD could've been used in other comic lines at DC, but he had to be diluted. guess i just gotta cherish my DOS and H/P that much more, when he was the true ultimate threat.
Plus Supes has more powers?? Getting back to the Crisis huh?

While Superman is undeniably more physically powerful, MM's versatility would allow him to win, assuming neither held back. As others have stated, MM's intangibility would negate most, if not all, of Superman's offensive attacks. However, MM doesn't really have the physical strength or staminia to kill Superman outright. So his only option would seem to be a telepathic K.O. from what I could find he should be able to do so.

check out his Telepathic Assault near the bottom
http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/mmanhunter/manhunter.html

Ya know what I still don't get why some people think Martian Manhunter Strength surpasses Superman but then I saw him punch Bizzarro in the face and Bizzarro stood there and smiled.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Those scans are why i can't take DC seriously. They had the ultimate weapon, truly undefeatable by tradtional methods. Then they gotta butcher his character and take away what made him unique just so they could show Superman as stronger.......Psshhhht! Superman is truly the spoiled child in that universe. DD could've been used in other comic lines at DC, but he had to be diluted. guess i just gotta cherish my DOS and H/P that much more, when he was the true ultimate threat.
Plus Supes has more powers?? Getting back to the Crisis huh? That's a clone and there's been a handful, the real DD is still pretty undefeatable.

Martian Manhunter is a super powerful telepath for sure.. but Superman's kryptonian mind would resist it long enough. Even Despero couldn't take control of Superman.

Originally posted by Juntai
Martian Manhunter is a super powerful telepath for sure.. but Superman's kryptonian mind would resist it long enough. Even Despero couldn't take control of Superman. Indeed.

I was just gonna say that.

I alsways thought MM was bad-ass. He should tear supes up.

MM can only initially lift 80 tons

Originally posted by meep-meep
I alsways thought MM was bad-ass. He should tear supes up. He is super badass against most enemies. I think Supes just has what it takes. .
Although he's mostly gotten rid of the weakness, as in he doesn't turn into a puddle, he still opts to back down from fire... it's still a FEAR, just not a castrophic match flame will turn him into a bucket of green water from 50 feet away fear anymore. Nor is it a weakness any longer. The OMAC proved this when it flamethrower shot him in the JSA during the trial of Atom Smasher. He reared back defensively and didn't progess through it.... meanwhile, Superman has fire likely much hotter than that in heat vision.

Superman is faster.
Superman is stronger.
Superman has better senses, at least in the 5 main senses... Martian Manhunter has 9 though, by his own words... lol. Hard telling what they are.
Superman is more durable.
Superman has resistance to telepathy and telepathic attacks.

In a normal situation, Clark wouldn't do what it takes to put Jonn down, because he's a friend, and it would definately take some FORCE.
But bloodlusted, Superman has already handled the league like they were amatuers.
When he's in full on "I'm taking this guy down" mode, he becomes the craftiest wirlwind of a powerhouse anyone ever fought. And he proves it constantly.

yea if they both went for it, I think Superman may just come out on top.... as much as MM is badass, superman is one crazy mofo sometimes.

when MM fought preus, he was taken out by his "heat" vision... can anyone explain that, MM was intangible. Afterward Supes in battered old guy form took down preus. surely that says something

then again MM has his mental attacks, hes never used them against Supes in an offensive manner so we'll never know if he can resist it. but if maxwell lord can control supes, MM can do one over on the man of steel.

you do know it took Max Lord years to whittle down Supes telepathic defenses in order to control him right?

Originally posted by Fanboy
What is coming out of Doomsdays mouth?

fire

Originally posted by Draco69
MM. Telepathy. etc.

He already nearly beat the entire JLA as Fernus.

QFT

Ya know what I still don't get why some people think Martian Manhunter Strength surpasses Superman but then I saw him punch Bizzarro in the face and Bizzarro stood there and smiled. Can anyone tell me anything?

Holy were gonna f***in die Batman !!!! Kgkg just posted on Supez !!!

Originally posted by Draco69
MM. Telepathy. etc.

He already nearly beat the entire JLA as Fernus.

i remember doing this thread a long time ago, many people underestimate the MM, superman goes down.

by the way could you tell me the name of that fernus story?

Originally posted by Loot
i remember doing this thread a long time ago, many people underestimate the MM, superman goes down.

by the way could you tell me the name of that fernus story? And Superman beat him and the rest of the league in more recent times. In fact, he went after Jonn first, and took him out immediately in like a single panel before he could even react. Fenris while powerful, was able to most of what he did, because the league didn't want to kill him, just defeat him and get him back to normal. It took a couple of comics for his fight with the league, and he still didn't mess them up all that bad, comparatively to Superman anyways, who they didn't even end up beating at all, they had to kill Max and release him instead of confronting him because he was far too powerful.

Like I said earlier...
Superman is faster.
Superman is stronger.
Superman is a smarter craftier fighter.
Superman is more durable.
Superman has high resistance to telepathy and telepathic attacks.
And last but not least.... Superman has heat vision.

instead of gettin all melodramtic i'll just post exactly what i posted the last time this came up way back on dec.24 2004

MM totally has this one! he's supes equal in every way plus he has extra powers to boot. Superman already conceded that MM outmtached him, and for lack of a better way of putting it, inspires fear in his Krytonian soul.

to qoute supes himself, "There are only a handful of beings in the KNOWN Universe that i wouldnt like to face in open combat,J'onn is at the top of that list....he's the most powerful being on the PLANET."(JLA:Trial by Fire) vol.14"

again going back to an excerpt from a previous post of mine: back in may

while j'onn was living on Mars he was telepathically linked to every member of his race, and all those countless millenia of training, strategies and mind techniques were passed down from generation to generation via telepathy.

plus as an added bonus J'onn is just like that kid from xcalibur where when he changes into a new form he has the proportiante abilities....meaning, its not like mystique where no matter who she turns into she's gonna weigh 200 pounds,if J'onn changes into a giant monster he's gonna be as powerful as a giant monster should be.. why do you think he's always trying to keep a cool head cuz if he loses his temper its curtains for anyone in his wake

J'onn will run up on superman and show him the receipt......cuz he owns him!! sorry couldnt resist

Originally posted by manjaro
instead of gettin all melodramtic i'll just post exactly what i posted the last time this came up way back on dec.24 2004

MM totally has this one! he's supes equal in every way plus he has extra powers to boot. Superman already conceded that MM outmtached him, and for lack of a better way of putting it, inspires fear in his Krytonian soul.

to qoute supes himself, "There are only a handful of beings in the KNOWN Universe that i wouldnt like to face in open combat,J'onn is at the top of that list....he's the most powerful being on the PLANET."(JLA:Trial by Fire) vol.14"

again going back to an excerpt from a previous post of mine: back in may

while j'onn was living on Mars he was telepathically linked to every member of his race, and all those countless millenia of training, strategies and mind techniques were passed down from generation to generation via telepathy.

plus as an added bonus J'onn is just like that kid from xcalibur where when he changes into a new form he has the proportiante abilities....meaning, its not like mystique where no matter who she turns into she's gonna weigh 200 pounds,if J'onn changes into a giant monster he's gonna be as powerful as a giant monster should be.. why do you think he's always trying to keep a cool head cuz if he loses his temper its curtains for anyone in his wake

J'onn will run up on superman and show him the receipt......cuz he owns him!! sorry couldnt resist It's been proven these last few months though that Superman is far too much for the rest of the league to match when bloodlusted. He's too fast, too smart, and too powerful to counter. Normal everyday Supes? I'd give a good edge to Jonn... but as we've seen what bloodlusted Superman really looks like... I wouldn't be so quick to put my money on Martian Manhunter.

I would say that if both were bloodlusted MM would win. But it wouldn't be extremely easy.

I dunno, I don't get it.
Someone give a scenario of Martian Manhunter winning..

Superman is faster. Superman is stronger.. Superman is a smarter craftier fighter. .. Superman is more durable..

Superman has high resistance to telepathy and telepathic attacks, as even Martian Manhunter was able to be taken down by Despero's telepathy. When Superman could not.

Plus, he can shoot Jonn's greatest fear/weakness out of his eyes, at temperatures greater than the sun... And he is still susceptible to it, though not nearly as weak against it as he once was... because an OMAC kept him check with fire during the JSA trial of Atom Smasher.

I think that alone would put Jonn down.

yeah bcuz supes only loses it when it comes to lois, but have you ever seen J'onn lose his temper, yes we have. as fernus he decimated the league effortlessly, and also killed all the white martians that were trapped in the phantom zone with ease...you know how powerful one W/martian is let alone 70? let the two of them meet head to head in apeshit mode. and you'll see how J'onn would freaking destroy the whole planet!

plus j'onn is just as fast, and im willing to say smarter. plus other than the 5 senses J'onn has sesnes and perceptions that exceeds anything we can understand, plus he's a telepath so no matter what move supes want to make, no matter how fast he's gonna be one step ahead. it would be a good match up, but DC wasnt built on the back of MM so of course ther not gonna let superman lose, but given his potential MM is boss and everybody knows it.

Originally posted by Juntai
I dunno, I don't get it.
Someone give a scenario of Martian Manhunter winning..

Superman is faster. Superman is stronger.. Superman is a smarter craftier fighter. .. Superman is more durable..

Superman has high resistance to telepathy and telepathic attacks, as even Martian Manhunter was able to be taken down by Despero's telepathy. When Superman could not.

Plus, he can shoot Jonn's greatest fear/weakness out of his eyes, at temperatures greater than the sun... And he is still susceptible to it, though not nearly as weak against it as he once was... because an OMAC kept him check with fire during the JSA trial of Atom Smasher.

I think that alone would put Jonn down.

its only a pschological fear, of "crackling flames" not heat vision cuz if that was the case he would be afraid of his own heat that he fires from his eyes

Originally posted by manjaro
yeah bcuz supes only loses it when it comes to lois, but have you ever seen J'onn lose his temper, yes we have. as fernus he decimated the league effortlessly, and also killed all the white martians that were trapped in the phantom zone with ease...you know how powerful one W/martian is let alone 70? let the two of them meet head to head in apeshit mode. and you'll see how J'onn would freaking destroy the whole planet!

plus j'onn is just as fast, and im willing to say smarter. plus other than the 5 senses J'onn has sesnes and perceptions that exceeds anything we can understand, plus he's a telepath so no matter what move supes want to make, no matter how fast he's gonna be one step ahead. it would be a good match up, but DC wasnt built on the back of MM so of course ther not gonna let superman lose, but given his potential MM is boss and everybody knows it. Jonn might be smarter, but he's not a smarter fighter.

The senses Superman DOES have, are far above Martian Manhunters.

He's no where near Superman's speed, strength and durability though, and I'd like for you to prove it, if you think he is. Superman has been known to move in multiples of lightspeed. I've never seen MM approach this.

the problem for Supes is that if MM doesn't want Supes to touch him Supes won't ever be able to whilst MM can continuously bombard supes with his exceeding powerful telepathic assaults.

Originally posted by manjaro
its only a pschological fear, of "crackling flames" not heat vision cuz if that was the case he would be afraid of his own heat that he fires from his eyes Jonn's are energy beams, not fire.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
the problem for Supes is that if MM doesn't want Supes to touch him Supes won't ever be able to whilst MM can continuously bombard supes with his exceeding powerful telepathic assaults. Except Superman is resistant to telepathic assaults. It took years for someone to someone to dominate him. Despero was assaulting him and couldn't, and he mentally assaulted and dominated Aquaman and MM at the same time.. who are both world affecting level telapths.

when did he exactly dominate MM? and what could Supes possibly do to affect MM? especially when MM could just turn intangible? and if MM tried he could easily mindrape Supes. Aquaman isn't world affecting I would place him around Emma Frost level at most.

wat iz MM's powers agian

Originally posted by Superherovandal
when did he exactly dominate MM? and what could Supes possibly do to affect MM? especially when MM could just turn intangible? and if MM tried he could easily mindrape Supes. Aquaman isn't world affecting I would place him around Emma Frost level at most. How? When it's proven that he's not even as powerful as Despero and a comic later, when the 3 of them and Batman attacked Superman, they couldn't beat him and Despero couldn't beat or dominate him mentally.
They got dominated by Despero in JLA 118.

yes but in Trial of Fire he mindraped him. That's only time he went full on out.

uh can some1 tell me that MM guys powers

Originally posted by Superherovandal
yes but in Trial of Fire he mindraped him. That's only time he went full on out. Difference is... that part of Martian Manhunter is gone after Trial of Fire. Also, this is more current, therefore more viable. Also, it took The Burning several comics to fight the league. Superman bloodlusted dismantled them in a few panels. Martian Manhunter was the first to go.

he has advanced shape shifting powers. Extreme telepathic powers beyond that of Xavier. He has around class 100 strength and can match Supes for like 5mins. Superspeed nearly that of Supes. Martian vision. Intangibility. Invisibility. 9 senses. Genius intellect. What else? Just the guy to take out Supes.

"Fenris while powerful, was able to most of what he did, because the league didn't want to kill him, just defeat him and get him back to normal"

The league stated they werent holding back against Fernus and still got served.

"He's no where near Superman's speed, strength and durability though"

Bullocks. How does someone "not near his level", aids in moving the moon?

How he wins? Tp, and all the versability he possess.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
he has advanced shape shifting powers. Extreme telepathic powers beyond that of Xavier. He has around class 100 strength and can match Supes for like 5mins. Superspeed nearly that of Supes. Martian vision. Intangibility. Invisibility. 9 senses. Genius intellect. What else? Just the guy to take out Supes. Except that Superman is stronger, faster, and can shoot Jonn's weakness from his eyes.

his telepa7thy is stronger than professor X r u guys serious

"Except that Superman is stronger, faster, and can shoot Jonn's weakness from his eyes"

That sure helped him against the White Martians.

Originally posted by olympian
"Fenris while powerful, was able to most of what he did, because the league didn't want to kill him, just defeat him and get him back to normal"

The league stated they werent holding back and still got served.

"He's no where near Superman's speed, strength and durability though"

Bullocks. How does someone not near his level, aids in moving the moon?

How he wins? Tp, and all the versability he possess.

Show me Jonn's feats of speed strength and durability equal to Supes', I bet you won'y be able to. Regardless of the fact he "helped" move the moon.

Originally posted by olympian
"Except that Superman is stronger, faster, and can shoot Jonn's weakness from his eyes"

That sure helped him against the White Martians. Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch. And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. And this is all far more recent.
lol.

but u guys didnt answer me is his phsyic ability stronger than proffessorX

"Show me Jonn's feats of speed strength and durability equal to Supes', I bet you won'y be able to. Regardless of the fact he "helped" move the moon."

Why "helped" and not helped. Is there any doubt wathsoever that he did.

"Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch."

And regardless that did helped him against the White Martians, correct?

Where they still continued to fight even after being blasted with heat vision. Like MM has.

MM going all out as Fernus pwned the entire squad. Superman all out doesnt beat Orion or Wonder Woman. Strenght feats? Moon, and duplicating one of WW who is on Supes class in that regard during if im not mistaken : Jla/Titans. Two panels after she did it.

"And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. "

And usually gets mindcontrolled.

grrrrrrrrrr

Originally posted by olympian


Why "helped" and not helped. Is there any doubt wathsoever that he did.

"Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch."

And regardless that did helped him against the White Martians, correct?

Where they still continued to fight even after being blasted with heat vision. Like MM has.

MM going all out as Fernus pwned the entire squad. Superman all out doesnt beat Orion or Wonder Woman. Strenght feats? Moon, and duplicating one of WW who is on Supes class in that regard during if im not mistaken : Jla/Titans. Two panels after she did it.

"And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. "

And usually gets mindcontrolled. Fenrus was the emobidment of evil in Jonn's soul, and was casted out.
He had no weakness to fire, while Jonn does.
It's been proven people greater than Martian Manhunter cannot penetrate Superman's mind.
Martian Manhunter is not near Superman's strength, speed, and durability. Superman moves multiples of lightspeed, and can cut moons in half, pushed planets, etc. Martian Manhunter hasn't done anything like this or even remotely close. I said SHOW me. Superman's feats I can show, can you show Jonn's?
Superman bloodlusted dealt with the league too, and without a bonus power-up, and faster than Fenrus did.
And he still shoots fire from his eyes, and according to the DC webpage-- Martian Manhunter weakness to flame is caused by psychological and genetic factors. His body simply can't handle powerful flame. Superman's can output like stars, as they said at full level it's impossible to guage it's strength. In Superman BURN!!

Originally posted by spiderman44
grrrrrrrrrr Yeah, it's on the level.. world affecting if he wants it to be.

Originally posted by olympian
"Show me Jonn's feats of speed strength and durability equal to Supes', I bet you won'y be able to. Regardless of the fact he "helped" move the moon."

Why "helped" and not helped. Is there any doubt wathsoever that he did.

"Regardless... the point is--- He shoots Martian Manhunter's weakness from his eyes. He moves multiples of lightspeed while Jonn doesn't, and has feats of Strength Jonn will never touch."

And regardless that did helped him against the White Martians, correct?

Where they still continued to fight even after being blasted with heat vision. Like MM has.

MM going all out as Fernus pwned the entire squad. Superman all out doesnt beat Orion or Wonder Woman. Strenght feats? Moon, and duplicating one of WW who is on Supes class in that regard during if im not mistaken : Jla/Titans. Two panels after she did it.

"And has resisted telepathic assault by a guy that domianted MM and Aquaman at the same time. "

And usually gets mindcontrolled.

Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out.

"It's been proven people greater than Martian Manhunter cannot penetrate Superman's mind."

Guys under his level can, but he cant? Where.

"He had no weakness to fire, while Jonn does"

And in the same way as Superman`s weaknesshe doesnt go down straight away. Like the White Martians didnt.

"and can cut moons in half, pushed planets, etc. Martian Manhunter hasn't done anything like this "

Moving the moon isent anything like this? You are also missing the point. Im not saying he is stronger or even necessarily equal. Im saying "no near his level" its bull.

And Superman moved a planet alright. After being sundipped.

"Superman bloodlusted dealt with the league too, and without a bonus power-up, and faster than Fenrus did."

Odd i recall a Superman wanting to rule the world and the Jla wer still up and Orion didnt went down fighting him.

Fenrus on he other hand, not being a power up but instead a being unleashed owned the Jla that wasent holding back.

"And he still shoots fire from his eyes, and according to the DC webpage-- Martian Manhunter weakness to flame is caused by psychological and genetic factors. His body simply can't handle powerful flame"

Thenhow did the White Martian Proteus continue to fight Superman after getting blasted. Explained that one to me.

Jla year one has John surviving a fire and not going down. Oops.

"as they said at full level it's impossible to guage it's strength"

They say that to how many characters. I recall Superman saying MM was the most powerful being on Earth in the JLA title as well. On panel.

"Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out."

And didnt Orion fought him mano a mano? Or was that another All out Supes story he was in.

dam dats kinda hard to belive cuzzproffessorXwhen i waz growin up waz the best

I'm not trying to claim it's a landslide or anything, these are two of the best... I just think Supes has what it takes to put the beast down. If it weren't for a weakness to such a basic element, Jonn could likely take Supes. But in normal circumstances.. no.

Juntai he has survived fires before. You seem to have the idea that weakness kills him straight away.

Its a weakness like Superman has with Magic. It weaknes him but can or not put him down.

He has alot more versability to be able to win than the other way around.

yes indeed his telepathic prowness and powers exceed that of Professor Xavier. and MM could take all of Supes attacks when intangible. He's just way more versatile.

There is one thing I never got from the whole Burning storyline in which MM became Fernis. If WW is fully resistant to tp assaults and attempting to causes a backlash on the user did he use it one her or just tk when he was Fernis. If he did and it worked I smell PIS, CIS and just plain stupidity on the writers part. In fact I remember having a conversation with Draco one the fact that the guy who writes the JLA's stories admitted he didn't know much about WW.

In this though I can see MM winning although Superman is highly tp proof what's to stop MM from turning into a Kryptonian to better mind assault him.

MM has the power to tpathically put down Supes eventually.

Originally posted by olympian
"It's been proven people greater than Martian Manhunter cannot penetrate Superman's mind."

Guys under his level can, but he cant? Where.

"He had no weakness to fire, while Jonn does"

And in the same way as Superman`s weaknesshe doesnt go down straight away. Like the White Martians didnt.

l"ightspeed, and can cut moons in half, pushed planets, etc. Martian Manhunter hasn't done anything like this "

Moving the moon isent anything like this? You are also missing the point. Im not saying he is stronger or even necessarily equal. Im saying "no nearhis level"its bull.

And Superman pushed a planet alright. After being sundipped.

"Superman bloodlusted dealt with the league too, and without a bonus power-up, and faster than Fenrus did."

Odd i recall a Superman wanting to rule the world and the Jla wer still up and Orion didnt went down fighting him.

Fenrus on he other hand, not being a power up but instead a being unleashed owned the Jla that wasent holding back.

"And he still shoots fire from his eyes, and according to the DC webpage-- Martian Manhunter weakness to flame is caused by psychological and genetic factors. His body simply can't handle powerful flame"

Thenhow did the White Martian Proteus continue to fight Superman after getting blasted. Explained that one to me.

Jla year one has John surviving a fire and not going down. Oops.

"as they said at full level it's impossible to guage it's strength"

They say that to how many characters. I recall Superman saying MM was the most powerful being on Earth in the JLA title as well. On panel.

"Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out."

And didnt Orion fought him mano a mano? Or was that another All out Supes story he was in.
Odd, that Superman dealt with the league during Sacrifice, and Martian Manhunter didn't put him down.
In JLA118, Despero mentally assaulted and dominated Aquaman and Martian Manhunter, alluding me to believe he's on a higher level. In the following issue, he could NOT do the same to Superman, and was getting mad about it.

Superman also is on panel calling Batman the most dangerous person on Earth. He also said Zod was the only person he's ever truly feared.. He also said the same about Doomsday.. He also said Thor was his best opponent ever, but he's said that to half of DCU, What's your point?

During the JSA, trial of Atom Smasher, Jonn got backed down by an OMAC shooting fire out of his arm at him, and didn't do shit the whole fight as a result. That's far newer than Year One. And do you think either of these... is as powerful as Superman's current heat vision?

You still have yet to show me Jonn flying multiples of lightspeed or doing any high feats like Superman at all in terms of speed/durabilty/strength. I will agree, he's ON PAR, but still not close to Superman in these respects, as he simply does NOT have the feats to prove it.

"Odd, that Superman dealt with the league during Sacrifice, and Martian Manhunter didn't put him down.
In JLA118, Despero mentally assaulted and dominated Aquaman and Martian Manhunter, alluding me to believe he's on a higher level. In the following issue, he could NOT do the same to Superman, and was getting mad about it"

And yet on previous fights Desespero has claim MM to be the hardest mind for him to control with BlueBettle coming as second. There are examples of both ways.

And Superman still gets mindcontrolled in a regular basis.

"Superman also is on panel calling Batman the most dangerous person on Earth. He also said Zod was the only person he's ever truly feared.. He also said the same about Doomsday.. He also said Thor was his best opponent ever, but he's said that to half of DCU, What's your point"

See how many character had the "most powerful" title, Superman included?

"During the JSA, trial of Atom Smasher, Jonn got backed down by an OMAC shooting fire out of his arm at him, and didn't do shit the whole fight as a result. That's far newer than Year One."

-Juntai he has survived fires before. You seem to have the idea that weakness kills him straight away.

Its a weakness like Superman has with Magic. It weaknes him but can or not put him down-

r e a d. There are again examples of both.

Its no more correct than saying magic gets Superman down all the time.

"I will agree, he's ON PAR, but still not close to Superman in these respects"

If hes on par then of course he is close. Wich is what this argument is for. They both have the means to take each other out.

Originally posted by olympian
"Odd, that Superman dealt with the league during Sacrifice, and Martian Manhunter didn't put him down.
In JLA118, Despero mentally assaulted and dominated Aquaman and Martian Manhunter, alluding me to believe he's on a higher level. In the following issue, he could NOT do the same to Superman, and was getting mad about it"

And yet on previous fights Desespero has claim MM to be the hardest mind for him to control with BlueBettle coming as second. There are examples of both ways.

And Superman still gets mindcontrolled in a regular basis.

"Superman also is on panel calling Batman the most dangerous person on Earth. He also said Zod was the only person he's ever truly feared.. He also said the same about Doomsday.. He also said Thor was his best opponent ever, but he's said that to half of DCU, What's your point"

See how many character had the "most powerful" title, Superman included?

"During the JSA, trial of Atom Smasher, Jonn got backed down by an OMAC shooting fire out of his arm at him, and didn't do shit the whole fight as a result. That's far newer than Year One."

-Juntai he has survived fires before. You seem to have the idea that weakness kills him straight away.

Its a weakness like Superman has with Magic. It weaknes him but can or not put him down-

r e a d. There are again examples of both.

Its no more correct than saying magic gets Superman down all the time.

"I will agree, he's ON PAR, but still not close to Superman in these respects"

If hes on par then of course he is close. Wich is what this argument is for. They both have the means to take each other out.
But there might be examples both ways, but giving characters powers constantly rising, current Superman's mind is beyond current Martian Manhunter's ability to telepathically attack

Funny, you keept mentioning times characters have done things 10.. 20 years ago. lol. Superman was soundspeed back when, and had trouble lifting a house. Even 5 years ago, the characters weren't at the level they are at now.

Who used telepathy to mind control Superman? Max Lord, it took him years. Poison Ivy? Her's isn't telepathic at all, but rather plant-based.. like a love-potion. Show me someone recently taking Supes down mentally. I've proven times he hasn't.

What I'm saying is, although fire doesn't always down him outright. It's usually typical random fire he faces, or even another enemy with a flame gun or flame power. None of these.. are close to his heat vision.


Martian Manhunter simply will not beat Superman easily. His telepathy is no match for Despero's, who can't assault Superman's "advanced kryptonian mind".
His speed, strenth, durability, don't have the feats at all.

They do both have the means, they are both super-powered characters. More often than not though, I think current Superman, bloodlusted, will take out Martian Manhunter.

Superman has that technique to create Illusion for those who enters his mind.

Tho how do people always rape him like that is beyond me

Physically Supes will man handle the MM

Superman can beat any JLA and has when he lost his mind etc

"Funny, you keept mentioning times characters have done things 10.. 20 years ago. lol. Superman was soundspeed back when, and had trouble lifting a house. Even 5 years ago, the characters weren't at the level they are at now."

Wich includes MM.

"Who used telepathy to mind control Superman? Max Lord, it took him years. Poison Ivy? Her's isn't telepathic at all, but rather plant-based.. like a love-potion. Show me someone recently taking Supes down mentally. I've proven times he hasn't"

Proven times would be if he never did. Are you now telling me it never happened.

Next thing you will say is that Lord is a higher Tp than MM.

"Martian Manhunter simply will not beat Superman easily"

Word. Neither will Supes win easily.

"They do both have the means, they are both super-powered characters. More often than not though, I think current Superman, bloodlusted, will take out Martian Manhunter"

Superman all out that lost against Wonder Woman?

"Superman can beat any JLA and has when he lost his mind etc"

As can MM.

As for losing the mind: Fernus.

Originally posted by olympian
"It's been proven people greater than Martian Manhunter cannot penetrate Superman's mind."

Guys under his level can, but he cant? Where.

"He had no weakness to fire, while Jonn does"

And in the same way as Superman`s weaknesshe doesnt go down straight away. Like the White Martians didnt.

"and can cut moons in half, pushed planets, etc. Martian Manhunter hasn't done anything like this "

Moving the moon isent anything like this? You are also missing the point. Im not saying he is stronger or even necessarily equal. Im saying "no near his level" its bull.

And Superman moved a planet alright. After being sundipped.

"Superman bloodlusted dealt with the league too, and without a bonus power-up, and faster than Fenrus did."

Odd i recall a Superman wanting to rule the world and the Jla wer still up and Orion didnt went down fighting him.

Fenrus on he other hand, not being a power up but instead a being unleashed owned the Jla that wasent holding back.

"And he still shoots fire from his eyes, and according to the DC webpage-- Martian Manhunter weakness to flame is caused by psychological and genetic factors. His body simply can't handle powerful flame"

Thenhow did the White Martian Proteus continue to fight Superman after getting blasted. Explained that one to me.

Jla year one has John surviving a fire and not going down. Oops.

"as they said at full level it's impossible to guage it's strength"

They say that to how many characters. I recall Superman saying MM was the most powerful being on Earth in the JLA title as well. On panel.

"Orion, MM, WW, and Steel were barely able to hold an annoyed Supes in the King of the World storyline. This is with them all dogpiling him and tryng hard as hell to restrain him. Supes was mildly annoyed...he was even going all out."

And didnt Orion fought him mano a mano? Or was that another All out Supes story he was in.

Different story, still doesnt negate the fact that between all of them, they could barely hold Supes.

Then its picking and choosing. Either you take the Fenrus into account as well as the King of The World. Only fair.

And i do. Wich means both are beasts and that "not near" his level is bull.

"Different story, still doesnt negate the fact that between all of them, they could barely hold Supes."

Then there is even one more story that i tough when he has lost his mind. Interesting.

How did that one ended.

It means both ways can happen.

it means it sucks

Originally posted by olympian
"Funny, you keept mentioning times characters have done things 10.. 20 years ago. lol. Superman was soundspeed back when, and had trouble lifting a house. Even 5 years ago, the characters weren't at the level they are at now."

Wich includes MM.

"Who used telepathy to mind control Superman? Max Lord, it took him years. Poison Ivy? Her's isn't telepathic at all, but rather plant-based.. like a love-potion. Show me someone recently taking Supes down mentally. I've proven times he hasn't"

Proven times would be if he never did. Are you now telling me it never happened.

Next thing you will say is that Lord is a higher Tp than MM.

"Martian Manhunter simply will not beat Superman easily"

Word. Neither will Supes win easily.

"They do both have the means, they are both super-powered characters. More often than not though, I think current Superman, bloodlusted, will take out Martian Manhunter"

Superman all out that lost against Wonder Woman?

"Superman can beat any JLA and has when he lost his mind etc"

As can MM.

As for losing the mind: Fernus.
It took Maxwell Lord YEARS to break down Superman's mind. He said this himself, this would lead me to believe that he started back when he helped introduce the New JLA... in 1991... when he was behind a portion of the plots, as a bad guy, working with the good guys. Exploiting them.

Manchester Black couldn't even stand up and telepathic and TK assault and drop Superman. And he was more powerful than Martian Manhunter. On a random whim he dominated nearly every DC Earth baddie and had them doing all sorts of stuff, then meeting back in Metropolis for a final showdown with Superman. He also made his own and Lex Luthor's mind unreadable by Martian Manhunter. He also mentally held Doomsday for a period of time.

And no, I'm not saying that those old times never happened.. but it's obvious that Superman is on a new level these days. Apparently a telepath able to drop down Jonn and Arthur at the SAME TIME, and COULD NOT take down Superman, is quite a feat.

Ah... Wonder Woman got lucky, and she also had to use Kryptonite to bring him down to her level. Did you not notice... he knocked unconscious in ONE punch?


And without PIS/CIS, Superman has the various Torqasms.. Vo, and Rao, to telepathically combat with.

"And no, I'm not saying that those old times never happened.. but it's obvious that Superman is on a new level these days. Apparently a telepath able to drop down Jonn and Arthur at the SAME TIME, and COULD NOT take down Superman, is quite a feat."

I agree it is. Just keep in mind MM has feats on that level as well against Desespero that havent been retconned.

"Ah... Wonder Woman got lucky, and she also had to use Kryptonite to bring him down to her level. Did you not notice... he knocked unconscious in ONE punch"

Lucky nada.

She used skills and strenght while being stated to hold back and defeated him. Its a high feat for sure but it happened.

And she obviously was ko. Her durability compared with the other guns is lower. She always gets more hurt than Supes when they fight.

And yet she has two wins. Doesnt mean shes stronger because she isent.

Means like MM she has the means and its close to his level to take the win.

Originally posted by olympian
"And no, I'm not saying that those old times never happened.. but it's obvious that Superman is on a new level these days. Apparently a telepath able to drop down Jonn and Arthur at the SAME TIME, and COULD NOT take down Superman, is quite a feat."

I agree it is. Just keep in mind MM has feats on that level as well against Desespero that havent been retconned.

"Ah... Wonder Woman got lucky, and she also had to use Kryptonite to bring him down to her level. Did you not notice... he knocked unconscious in ONE punch"

Lucky nada.

She used skills and strenght while being stated to hold back and defeated him. Its a high feat for sure but it happened.

And she obviously was ko. Her durability compared with the other guns is lower. She always gets more hurt than Supes when they fight.

And yet she has two wins. Doesnt mean shes stronger because she isent.

Means like MM she has the means and its close to his level to take the win.
Ahh, but the CURRENT and most recent comics, is what we're debating, as it's whats considered when these threads are made.. not 20 years ago comics, my friend. CURRENT Superman is apprently, unable to be mind-raped by people MORE POWERFUL than CURRENT Martian Manhunter.



And she didn't really beat Superman, she snapped Max Lord's neck so she wouldn't have to fight him. The fight was cut short. But blow for blow, Superman beat her ass through most of that comic. She had like 3 offensive moves the whole time, including cutting his neck, which he barely reacted to. He grabbed his neck.. natural.. no sign of pain though... and he stops there, dumbfounded, because he's still in shock from what he saw in his mind, and what she did. And she was holding back... barely... but using Kryptonite, and all of her weapons, lol.

time for me to go to bed bro
be back later tonite, prolly.

it bears mentioning again that superman conceded that J'onn was the most powerful on Earth. even if he was just dick riding to make MM sound cool he would have at least said "one of" the most powerful instaed of "the most". you get me?

Fernus was owning all of them completey. lets not forget how they ended up defeating Fernus, umm by beating him down?--no!, by subdoing him physically?--no!............ oh yeah thats right.... by re-enlisting Plastic Man, who is immune to the psychic powers of the Martian Manhunter, and has superior shape-changing abilities...thats the ticket. heck, The story even hints that this is the reason that Plastic Man was originally brought to the Justice League by Batman, who wanted a balance in place in case the Martian Manhunter ever got out of control. why didnt he just say hey, oh well, if MM goes out of control at least we have superman

Also, think of when he killed the white martians--as freaking powerful as they are individually, even tho there werent any panels of the fight you think they just stood there and not fight for their lives, but they got walked across anyway--all 70 of them!

and for the last time he isnt affected too adversely by fire anymore. thats why he's has been going thru therapy with that chick Scorch..heck thats why he even turned into fernus in the frist place cuz once his fear was conquered that inherent programming by the Oans was erased..so its not a physical thing but rather an emotional and pyschological one.

and to answer a previous question yes his martian vision is heat vision. cuz in that arch where that fairy tale lady was trying to take over reality when the JLA were all trapped in the kooky, magicy, forrest. batman i believe it was, instructed both him and superman to use thier "heat vision" to burn away the vines(or something like that) that were coming to life and entangling them---and it proved to be to no avail... that was one of the times when supes mentioned specifically that he desnt like magic. so if he was gonna be afraid of superman's heat vision. he certainly would have been afraid to use his own dont ya think? and every profile you read its gonna say that he has heat vision that's similar to superman--ergo the same thing so that "oh no *slaps face like mcauly culken*-- hes gonna be afraid of heat vision!" doesnt wash with me" and this fervor that he's weaker than superman is complete bullshit too. on a reg. day he's stronger, not by much, but is. superman would have to dive in the heart of the sun for a boost to over power him physically. plus whats stopping him from turning intangible and watch superman make an ass outta himself?

Max lord is a guy who doesnt rank at the top for telepath's thats why he knew better that the best way was to chip away little by little to gain control eventually. And who says superman cant be mind controlled out right? then what do you call Eclipso possessing him, to get to Captian marvel. and even though it wasnt by means of telepthy, but mind control nonetheless, what do you call Ivy throwing a plant on his damn chest?--which harkens back to the classic "for the man who has everything" when another plant controlled his mind--and no im talking about the JLU episode, this actualy happened in comics. and what about the time when brainiac's orignal plan was to seize his organic body, and seized his mindby transfering his consciousness in..albiet temporarily. and what about when darksied mind controlled him to think that he was his son, and had him killing dissidents on apkolips? so i dont know where he all of a sudden gets this "he is immune to telepthy and mind controlled" powers from. where has it ever been stated that "current" superman is immune to telepathy or mind control? when Eclipso got him earlier this year, and ivy got him about 4 years ago...man you guys slay me somethimes

Originally posted by manjaro

Max lord is a guy who doesnt rank at the top for telepath's thats why he knew better that the best way was to chip away little by little to gain control eventually. And who says superman cant be mind controlled out right? then what do you call Eclipso possessing him, to get to Captian marvel. and even though it wasnt by means of telepthy, but mind control nonetheless, what do you call Ivy throwing a plant on his damn chest?--which harkens back to the classic "for the man who has everything" when another plant controlled his mind--and no im talking about the JLU episode, this actualy happened in comics. and what about the time when brainiac's orignal plan was to seize his organic body, and seized his mindby transfering his consciousness in..albiet temporarily. and what about when darksied mind controlled him to think that he was his son, and had him killing dissidents on apkolips? so i dont know where he all of a sudden gets this "he is immune to telepthy and mind controlled" powers from. where has it ever been stated that "current" superman is immune to telepathy or mind control? when Eclipso got him earlier this year, and ivy got him about 4 years ago...man you guys slay me somethimes Smooth i was jus gona get to that!

loot. instead of having you chase down single issues just get JLA:Vol.14 Trial of Fire . also the thing with plastic man is he's not human anymore. so he doesnt have any brainwave patterns. i belive thats what grants him his immuntiy to mind tricks. Plas was instrumental in his defeat cuz as they weere battling in korea? after a nuclear strike and flames everywhere, they were changining into giant forms, and toppling buildings and shit, and he damn near wrestled him down, but due to PIS Fernus needed both fire and the anguish of ppl's minds to spawn(as the burning martians produce asexually) but the scorch chick she held back the flames, which distracted him.. then dude quickly turned on her..

More PIS ensued when the shock of his girl being hurt and of course his friends believing in him cuased J'onn to free himself from the astral plane of his own mind where he was in chains, and broke free of fernus's grip. so boom fernus thought that it was his spawn coming out of him but it turned out to be J'onn crashing out of his chest, then coupled with being pissed off, and league flooding the area to douse the remaining flames which further depowered Fernus, J'onn tore him apart on a molecular level. this all happened in #89.

and futher proof that fire no longer affects him, at the end of it all he said

"The flame and i are again bound, body and soul, but not as before. i can withstand simple fire without pain. Candle flame or a burning forrest, it matters not if they are not flames of psychic significance. Flames of suffering as the burning created, flames of passion that an arsonist might create, flames of love, those....those most of all i cannot bear."

so i dont care if you throw him in a volcano, its not gonna hurt him. so thats that

Originally posted by UniOmni
Then its picking and choosing. Either you take the Fenrus into account as well as the King of The World. Only fair.

It could also be taken into account that MM got his ass handed to him twice by Asmodel who wasn't even trying. Effortlessy beaten the first time until Supes showed up, and Easily killed the second time.

Also, if bringing up Fernus, why not take a Sundipped Supes into account? Both are extreme shows of their power and not something either just does normally.

MM would destroy Supes. MM 10/10

I have an old school JLA comic where MM states that he is more powerful than superman...

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2372/jla1192cr.th.jpg

Speed Feat: During Terror Incognita the white martians had created flame damping towers which prohibited combustion. This caused the earth's atmosphere to fireproofed and made flames of fire anywhere on earth impossible.

The major side effect to this was that plant life as well as animal life began to die. People everywhere began to freeze, and breezing in air as oxygen for life was become harder to do by the second. All human life was going to die soon, a matter of minutes.

The JLA, including members Superman, Wonder woman, Green Lantern, The Flash and Plastic man couldn't do anything in time to stop the catastrophic impact of the fire damping towers, even though batman diligently urge to break off the fight.

They were in battle with a squad of white martians who had already succeeded in bruising them by ganging up on the JLA, using two or more white martians for every member of the JLA. Two attacked flash, four deceived and attacked superman, five deceived and attacked Wonder woman and plastic man, while three attacked green lantern, who had already endured superman being smashed into him at high velocity by the white martians that jumped him.

The Jla was down by Three in the bottom of the Ninth, with 2 outs, a man up to bat with the bases loaded so the speak. Break the fight, 6 billion people are about to take their final breath, Batman says.

At this moment, with less that a second to go, The Martian Manhunter after breaking free of his white martian captors and using telepathic spikes, then intangibility to put his hands through the chest of the two white martians that guarded him. The Martian Manhunter then speed blisses around the earth and destroys all the fire damping towers, one being located on each continent and after this super speed punches the four white martians who had rip plastic man's body apart from shoulder to waist(one of them did this with Martian vision), and then used martian vision to attempt melting him before Green lantern intervened and as a result got his arm broken by the one of the martians in the process.

All four of the white Martians were knocked out by Manhunter's super speed/strength punches. he had also surprised and knocked out one of the white martians who attacked Flash on his way to help Kyle and Plastic man. He did all these things, from getting loose to tearing apart every fire proofing on each continent, to knocking at those white martians in what surely appeared to be less then a second. It was very impressive, a display of dynamic speed and power.

That was very impressive Glimmerone, what storyline was that? I'd like to read it.

There are examples like that for everyone however. For example, during the Imperiex saga, MM was easily defeated by a probe. This was along with Flash, GL, Aquaman, and a Fully Armored Wonder Woman.

Once pissed, Supes was taking out probes like butter.

Also while Supes was able to hold Asmodel, MM was burning just trying to touch him. Was defeated the 1st time, and killed the second time (easily.)

Supes also defeated Proteus, who was a well trained warrior white martian.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Look at all this anti-Supermanism. lol

Or Martian Manhunter Fanboyism.

I cannot believe what I'm reading here, guys..bad thread, seriously.

I mean everyone's making Superman out to be this ragdoll when everyone know that that wont be the case.

This isn't a case of "MM fanboyism". The whole "Wolverine can take Thanos because of his healing factor" or "Spidey can beat the Spectre because of his Spideysense" are examples of fanboyism...based on their powers, feats etc...MM would win. And I love supes by the way. I think his powers make him a low-level cosmic being.

Yeah I know, everyone has their highs and lows, and maybe with a special or some unique feat/s. I just wanted to mention this one for the Martian Manhunter, since I thought it was a good one.

Hey Avalonofthewind, the story line is JLA:Terror Incognita(It runs from issues 55-58 of JLA, there may be a trade back out, I don't know for sure). Its when the White Martian got free once more after being beaten and imprison in the Phantom Zone during JLA: Year One. During this fight with the JLA, instead of outright facing them directly, they decided to remain hidden and attack after their sinister plans were close to reaching success and then they would be near unbeatable.

However, Batman through his detective skills caught on to some points that led him to their hideout and they were force to act and attack ahead of their planned time to do so.

no its not anti supermanism. against any body else who doesnt have a combination of the martian's power, i choose superman, but even i know when my favortie guy would get jhis ass handed over

Wait alot of people say Martian Manhunter can beat Superman but why is it when Martian Manhuunter punches Bizzarro in the face Bizzarro stands there and smiles.

Hello? Is anyone shocked?

Martian Manhunter would win this. I'm a big Superman fan. He is one of my favourite character from the comic world but MM would beat him. But expect this to be a very long fight

I would like Martian Manhunter to take this but his weakness to fire is as apparent as superman's weakness to krytonite. Superman is going to win through some very hot leasers coming from superman eyes. The battle is not going to be cheap superman still has to get Martian Manhunter in the right position so as to effectively use his ace in the hole.

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
MM can only initially lift 80 tons

BS!
MM can lift far more than 80 tons.
And by the way the whole '100 ton scale' is a Marvel scale ....it isn't applicable for DC characters (who operate at a far hgiher level).
Consider that during an attack by White Martians the JLA decided to move Earth's moon, and 3 characters went up to move it by hand.
The three were:
WonderWoman
Superman
Martian Manhunter.

To move a third of the moon's mass requires far far FAR more than an '80 ton' moving capacity.

Originally posted by jgiant
I have an old school JLA comic where MM states that he is more powerful than superman...

Not just that, but in JLA: Trial by Fire Superman states that MArtian Manhunter is the one being he'd fear to face in open combat the most.

In another comic Superman says that MM is 'more powerful than the entire JLA combined.' That was the comic that had that police officer from the Krypton like world who had all of Superman's strengths.

In another MM was referred to as the most powerful JLAer.

MM will defeat Superman (unless it is the Pre-Crisis version)

Originally posted by Juntai
And she didn't really beat Superman, she snapped Max Lord's neck so she wouldn't have to fight him. The fight was cut short. But blow for blow, Superman beat her ass through most of that comic. She had like 3 offensive moves the whole time, including cutting his neck, which he barely reacted to. He grabbed his neck.. natural.. no sign of pain though... and he stops there, dumbfounded, because he's still in shock from what he saw in his mind, and what she did. And she was holding back... barely... but using Kryptonite, and all of her weapons, lol. Hmm... if this is the fight I'm thinking of... they're near the sun when she pulls out the Kryptonite ring... then she get's punched back to Earth - which she recovers from by the time he gets back to Earth and considering he's Superman it probably wasn't a long time - and the ring was knocked out of her hand.

Offensive moves I counted:
Boxes his ears
Kicks him in the face, then breaks his knee, then punches his face into the ground.
Uppercuts him, then kicks him face first through the dirt.
Slashes his neck with her tiara.

Blow for blow, she was more effective... and she was the one holding back. She could have easily instead of just glancing his neck thrown it to cut much deeper.

Anyway... on topic.. my money would go on the Martian.

Ya know what I am wondering how Martian Manhunter could beat Superman but I thinking this that how is it that Martian Manhunter could punch Doomsday in the face and Doomsday barely moves and says you are strong but you are no Superman and Martian Manhunter goes down easily while Superman comes out stands there and takes a beating from Doomsday and then breaks his bone extentions with his own chest and freakin knocks him out with two hits.

Superman vs Doomsday (Doomsday Rex)

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...msdayrex6us.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex24yw.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex30gp.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex54ta.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex60lg.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex71kq.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex84kp.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...sdayrex96wm.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex109lg.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex118xm.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex121cw.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex139ii.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex140lb.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex158sz.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex163eb.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex170oa.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex181tp.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex193pd.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex209tq.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex213nh.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex229ow.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex237kp.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex248zz.jpg

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/...dayrex254dt.jpg

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... if this is the fight I'm thinking of... they're near the sun when she pulls out the Kryptonite ring... then she get's punched back to Earth - which she recovers from by the time he gets back to Earth and considering he's Superman it probably wasn't a long time - and the ring was knocked out of her hand.

Offensive moves I counted:
Boxes his ears
Kicks him in the face, then breaks his knee, then punches his face into the ground.
Uppercuts him, then kicks him face first through the dirt.
Slashes his neck with her tiara.

Blow for blow, she was more effective... and she was the one holding back. She could have easily instead of just glancing his neck thrown it to cut much deeper.

Anyway... on topic.. my money would go on the Martian.


http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=017supermanbatman015rembrandtd.jpg

Originally posted by Fanboy
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=017supermanbatman015rembrandtd.jpg

Wasnt this one from a world where Superman was living with Bruce and spent his life training to fight metahumans? Different WW then normal to Ibelieve.

MM like most of the Justice League heavyweights seem to lose a lot of IQ when Superman is around. Fernus took Superman out pretty easily.How much stronger was his telepathy then MM?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... if this is the fight I'm thinking of... they're near the sun when she pulls out the Kryptonite ring... then she get's punched back to Earth - which she recovers from by the time he gets back to Earth and considering he's Superman it probably wasn't a long time - and the ring was knocked out of her hand.

Offensive moves I counted:
Boxes his ears
Kicks him in the face, then breaks his knee, then punches his face into the ground.
Uppercuts him, then kicks him face first through the dirt.
Slashes his neck with her tiara.

Blow for blow, she was more effective... and she was the one holding back. She could have easily instead of just glancing his neck thrown it to cut much deeper.

Anyway... on topic.. my money would go on the Martian.

No one else wants to say anthing?

Originally posted by spetznaz
BS!
MM can lift far more than 80 tons.
And by the way the whole '100 ton scale' is a Marvel scale ....it isn't applicable for DC characters (who operate at a far hgiher level).
Consider that during an attack by White Martians the JLA decided to move Earth's moon, and 3 characters went up to move it by hand.
The three were:
WonderWoman
Superman
Martian Manhunter.

To move a third of the moon's mass requires far far FAR more than an '80 ton' moving capacity.
Actually, the Marvel scale can work for anyone. Class 100 just means that the character can lift from 100 tons to infinity. Marvel characters such as Thor, Hercules, and Hulk, for example, are listed as 100-tonners, yet they have shown they are capable of lifting wayyyy more than that much weight.

Basically, a person who could lift exactly 100 tons would be listed as Class 100. A person physically stronger than Superman, Hulk, Thor, Wonder Woman, Hercules, and Martian Manhunter COMBINED would STILL be listed as Class 100. There's no Class 1000 or 100000000. There's just no class beyond 100 is all.

If DC used the same scale that Marvel uses, then people like Supes, WW, MM, and Capt. Marvel would all be listed as Class 100 as well. This doesn't mean however, that they are limited to 100 tons. DC does have more Class 100 characters than Marvel, but that doesn't mean they are above the Marvel scale.

Originally posted by Fanboy
No one else wants to say anthing?
Just what does some pic of Superman and WW fighting have to do with this fight? I don't know where that came from exactly, but it looks like PIS, considering he broke her wristbands (an impossible task even for Superman).

As for the fight, I'd like to see what Supes could do to MM when he becomes intangible.

I think the reading public has a higher opinion of Martian Manhunter than the comic book writers do....

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Actually, the Marvel scale can work for anyone. Class 100 just means that the character can lift from 100 tons to infinity. Marvel characters such as Thor, Hercules, and Hulk, for example, are listed as 100-tonners, yet they have shown they are capable of lifting wayyyy more than that much weight.

Basically, a person who could lift exactly 100 tons would be listed as Class 100. A person physically stronger than Superman, Hulk, Thor, Wonder Woman, Hercules, and Martian Manhunter COMBINED would STILL be listed as Class 100. There's no Class 1000 or 100000000. There's just no class beyond 100 is all.

If DC used the same scale that Marvel uses, then people like Supes, WW, MM, and Capt. Marvel would all be listed as Class 100 as well. This doesn't mean however, that they are limited to 100 tons. DC does have more Class 100 characters than Marvel, but that doesn't mean they are above the Marvel scale.


Just what does some pic of Superman and WW fighting have to do with this fight? I don't know where that came from exactly, but it looks like PIS, considering he broke her wristbands (an impossible task even for Superman).

As for the fight, I'd like to see what Supes could do to MM when he becomes intangible.

Supes becomes intangible as well..
Then we have 2 intangible beings who get bored and decide to go home.

I thought he just vibrated so fast, it resembles intangibility?? Superman that is....

The only problem is....if Superman lands one SOLID punch....MM is done for.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes becomes intangible as well..
Then we have 2 intangible beings who get bored and decide to go home.
At least if Superman does so, MM can still mindrape him.

As for the whole Max Lord thing discussed earlier, is he really as powerful a telepath as MM? I doubt it would take MM years to simply attack Superman's mind.

Originally posted by King KAM
The only problem is....if Superman lands one SOLID punch....MM is done for.
Even if that's true, that can be where intangibility can truly come in handy.

Two words for all you MM suporters out their

Heat vision.

Originally posted by grey fox
Two words for all you MM suporters out their

Heat vision.
And one word for you:
Intangibility

When MM uses that power, the best Supes's heat vision can do is scare him (assuming he's still afraid of fire.)

As much as i hate saying it.....Speedblitz.......