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Defenders:
Hulk
Namor
Silver Surfer
Dr. Strange
Valkyrie
Nighthawk

vs

JLA:
Superman
Batman
Wonderwoman
Green Lantern (Hal)
Flash (Barry)
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter

i think defenders have a shot

The defenders even though they are out numbered. You should of gave them an extra person.

nope. like you, i think that the defenders still take it. why do you think defenders, even though they are outnumbered?

Surfer and Strange are the JLA's biggest problems.

Defencers win. I mean Defenders.

Hulk, Namor, Valkrie and Nighthawk would be taken care of easily. (The Flash imparts the SpeedForce to his teammates. Faster than Lightspeed Superman, MM, Aquaman and WW)

Dr. Strange would be taken out by the Flash before he can utter a syllable of a spell.

This is really the JLA vs. Silver Surfer.

whosawhat??? barry can do that???

Barry? Ohhhh. I thought its Wally. The JLA is f**ked then. Barry was about as fast as Quicksilver.

If speed is a factor, half the JLA are taken out within a second, because we all know Surfers faster than the Flash(Barry or Wally), he'll take him out first, then Superman. The rest of the Defenders are meat shields while Strange works his magic.

Originally posted by Draco69
Hulk, Namor, Valkrie and Nighthawk would be taken care of easily. (The Flash imparts the SpeedForce to his teammates. Faster than Lightspeed Superman, MM, Aquaman and WW)


Uhh. I didnt know Flash can do that. Matter of fact, I dont think he can.

He can transfer speed to and from people. in other words he can't steal speed from Dr. Strange so that he would he like speaking a word every ten years?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Uhh. I didnt know Flash can do that. Matter of fact, I dont think he can.

Wally can. Barry can't. Wally imparts his speed daily to his wife. He also imparted Superman to the SpeedForce in order to beat a laser going at the speed of light.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
He can transfer speed to and from people. in other words he can't steal speed from Dr. Strange so that he would he like speaking a word every ten years?

Actually he CAN steal speed. I doubt it would work on the Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Uhh. I didnt know Flash can do that. Matter of fact, I dont think he can.

I can't believe I'm doing this, but the Flash(Wally) Can share his speed with others. Doesn't matter, Surfer's much faster than the Flash, and everytime someone uses Flash's speed and blitz kills the competition, Surfer can do the same, only faster.

technically everything is a factor. and this is like a war. both sides get prep. it's not just who can whipe out the weakest characters the fastest. both teams have plans and have to exectute them with each other as a team, and i think JLA is a lot better at that becase of batman, superman's leadership, and mm's telepathy linking them together. on the defenders dr strange is responsible for all of that and they aren't nearly as good as working together as the jla is even without supes, bats, and mm. however i still say defenders by a little because its almost impossible to beat the power cosmic wielder, the sorceror supreme, the stronges superhero ever, the king of atlantis, the undisuted best female asgardian worrior who ties them all together, and one of marvel's takes on batman.

was it something i said?

bump!!!!

Silver Surfer takes this for the defenders.

I don't think JLA have anyopne capable of standing up to Cosmic level characters.

Defenders:
Hulk
Namor
Silver Surfer
Dr. Strange
Valkyrie
Nighthawk

vs

JLA:
Superman
Batman
Wonderwoman
Green Lantern (Hal)
Flash (Barry)
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter

Hulk:
Superman and Wonder Woman gang up against him, beating the crap outta of him before he can become a major threat.
Speedblitz him is the key.

Silver Surfer:
Martian Manhunter wipe out him with his psychic powers, and if Surfer resists, he engage him in physical confrontation, quickly he will be aided from Supes and WM ending the fight.

Namor:
Aquaman out of water is a high Class 100 of strenght possessor, Namor is Class 90 and can fly, but Aquaman is tougher and stronger, plus with his telepathy he can shut down Namor with ease or weak him to the point that some punches will be enough for the son of the vengeance.

Dr. Strange:
Hal entraps him into a force field, in the force field he creates chains and bands to block both the body and the mouth of the Doc, then he shake the force field until he fall unconscious.Obviously Strange wouldn't let him doing it so easy, but while he defend himself, Flash will sneak up on him and K.O. him.

Valkyrie:
Who she is?

Nighthawk:
Batman keeps him busy for a while then one of the powerhouses knock out him with a single blow.
JLA ownz all.

*Sigh* Strange protects the whole team from any type of psychic attack, so MM or Aquaman's mantal attacks are worthless now. Namor is class 100 as well, and is tougher and has more experience than Aquaman. Hal couldnt trap Strange into a force field. Even if he did, Strange can teleport or use astral form. Believe me, I love the JLA, but the Defenders take this. Great battle though.

Originally posted by jrodslam
*Sigh* Strange protects the whole team from any type of psychic attack, so MM or Aquaman's mantal attacks are worthless now. Namor is class 100 as well, and is tougher and has more experience than Aquaman. Hal couldnt trap Strange into a force field. Even if he did, Strange can teleport or use astral form. Believe me, I love the JLA, but the Defenders take this. Great battle though.
Namor is Class 100 in water, NOT outta water.
Strange can teleport his astral form after his body is chained and used to shatter walls?No.
MM psychic powers exceed those of Strange.
Defenders takes nothing.Superman or Flash can speedblitz the Doctor before he can say alakazham.

Namor is CL 100 in or out of water.
How would GL even be able to penetrate Strange's field bubble? Professor X can even probe the mind of Strnage, let alone MM.
Superman or Flash speedblitzing wouldnt be able to penetrate Stranges shield.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Namor is CL 100 in or out of water.
How would GL even be able to penetrate Strange's field bubble? Professor X can even probe the mind of Strnage, let alone MM.
Superman or Flash speedblitzing wouldnt be able to penetrate Stranges shield.
Again, Namor outta water is WEAKER.Class 85-90.
How can Strange erect a ff if Supes and Flash can reach him before he can wave his hands?
Professor X telepathy compared to that of MM is like comparing a scooter to a Yamaha R1.
Professor X needed Cerebro and the help of Jean Grey to check the space in search of Akenathon during THE END saga, MM can communicate at planetary distances, and was able to enter in the mind of Mageddon, the doomsday weapon being that was gonna destroy the galaxy.

Again, he's stronger than cl 85-90.
Strange already has the ff up. Around the whole group i might add.
When spell is active, ive never seem anyone be able to probe the mind of Strange or the group. Therefore your theory of MM entering the mind of the Defenders is flawed.
MM entering the mnid of Megaddon may be impressive, but a GL who isnt on the same level is able to withstand MM's mental attacks. Go figure. Once again youre theory is flawed. MM's mental probe works sometimes, but not all the time. On the other hand when Strange puts up a mental block, its never been obstructed.

Thus Defenders still win.

Oh. And the point you brought up about Supes or Flash speedblitzing before Strange can utter a spell. Just to let you know he doesnt need to say the words to render the whole JLA in stasis OR cast them to another dimension. Read Defenders Vol.2 #16 then get back to me.

Once again MANY OF YOU DON'T REALIZE THAT SURFER IS FASTER THAN THE FLASH!!! You bring in speed blitzing, Surfer will do the same to the JLA.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/silversurfer.jpg

Surfer will blitz kill half the JLA team before MM can even think of telepathy. Drains Supes. Catches the Flash, and Kills Wonder Woman. Strange and the others can easily take out the rest.

There you go Sentry. Some actual logic. I wish i had a scanner to put up some pics too.

Every time someone brings Flash in, they assume he'll get the jump on everyone. Not Surfer. The only guy I think beat Surfer in speed was the Runner. An Elder Of The Universe. Surfer was traveling much faster than the speed of light, while the Runner traveling along side of him laughed at how slow he was going.

GL's force fields resistance depends on will power and concentrations, and the ring's power is limitless, so the shield can be kept up even for days.
Strange has never met a telepath on the level of MM, so how can you assume his force field can resist?
You think Strange is unbeatable or his spells always work?
During a Spider-Man team up issue, he was attacked by a magical robot that passed through the Cyttorak's Band.
What's up?Strange failed.The spell doesn't work thanks to the magical protection that was imbued in the robot.
Martian Manhunter's telepathic assaults rarely doesn't works, and Strange compared to the enemies MM has faced, is not so impressive.

Again, he's stronger than cl 85-90.
Namor can lift about 85 tons at peak capacity, although his strength degrades the longer he is out of water, to a minimum of 40 tons.<---one of the few right things in www.marveldirectory.com
That's when he's outta water.
In water, he has fought and beat Hulk, I've respect for Namor, but you're arguing without proofs of him being above Class 85-90 outta water.

Oh. And the point you brought up about Supes or Flash speedblitzing before Strange can utter a spell. Just to let you know he doesnt need to say the words to render the whole JLA in stasis OR cast them to another dimension. Read Defenders Vol.2 #16 then get back to me.
He doesn't need to talk but he wave his hands when he cast his spells.
Flash is actually faster than istant transmission, he can enter in the Speed Force dimension and reappear into the force field, knocking the hell outta of Strange, Namor, Valkyrie and Nighthawk with a flurry of IMP.

Strange has neve met a telepath on MM's lvl, so how can you automatically assume that MM can enter the mind? A bit premature on your part.

Who mentioned anything about Cyttorak's bands? Not me. Does anyone in the JLA have some type of magical protection? NO they dont, so even IF Strange were to use it who would break free?

You say MM's tele assaults rarely dont work ehh? So that means that sometimes it didnt. I have yet to see an instance where someone enters the mind of Strange once the spell has been cast.

You must have forgotten about the recharge on the GL ringg ehh? Days? I give it 2 days max, if that.

Theres been more than 1 occasion where Namor has lifted more than 100 tons. Proof you ask?

Sub-Mariner #52(first series) --Namor holds, at arms length, a huge tankership loaded with chemical defoliant weighing at least 110,000 tons. Theres one.

Hulk Annual 98 -- Namor easily holds 2,000 ton destroyer overhead and slams it into Attuma. Theres two.

Yes Flash can go faster than instant transmission, BUT needs help along with time to do it. And he wont get the time against the Defenders. Your logic is flawed again sir.

Flash v.3 #136-8 -- Flash evenly races an energy being who moves at or beyond lightspeed, then, boosted by the collective speed of humanity, outruns "instant transmission' that is specifically referred to as being beyond lightspeed.

Good try though.

Namor is really underrated. Thank the inconsistency of the writers there.

Surfer will shift himself into hyperspace and take out half if not all the JLA. Surfer is not limited to the Speed Of Light. I've also proven he battles at beyond the speeds of light. He will drain Supes solar energy, just like this Sun :

PT. 1


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3642099


PT. 2



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3642153



Thus further empower himself. MM won't even have time for a telepathic assault. Strange in all his years has excellent defenses against telepaths. Dormammu, Mephisto, Shuma Gorath, all have some sort of telepathy, which I'm pretty sure is beyond that of MM's and he always finds a way to come out on top.

Originally posted by Sentry
MM won't even have time for a telepathic assault. Strange in all his years has excellent defenses against telepaths. Dormammu, Mephisto, Shuma Gorath, all have some sort of telepathy, which I'm pretty sure is beyond that of MM's and he always finds a way to come out on top.

By the way, I'd like to give props to kgkg for those scans.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Strange has neve met a telepath on MM's lvl, so how can you automatically assume that MM can enter the mind? A bit premature on your part.

Who mentioned anything about Cyttorak's bands? Not me. Does anyone in the JLA have some type of magical protection? NO they dont, so even IF Strange were to use it who would break free?

You say MM's tele assaults rarely dont work ehh? So that means that sometimes it didnt. I have yet to see an instance where someone enters the mind of Strange once the spell has been cast.
Can Strange's force field resist to heat vision full force, martian vision full force, GL Ring blast, and Speed Force energy blasts in a powerful combo?

You must have forgotten about the recharge on the GL ringg ehh? Days? I give it 2 days max, if that.<---The fight will not go on for more than 10hours.

Theres been more than 1 occasion where Namor has lifted more than 100 tons. Proof you ask?

Sub-Mariner #52(first series) --Namor holds, at arms length, a huge tankership loaded with chemical defoliant weighing at least 110,000 tons. Theres one.<---tankership.So he was near the sea.

Hulk Annual 98 -- Namor easily holds 2,000 ton destroyer overhead and slams it into Attuma. Theres two.<---2,000<---two thousand tons?two hundred?write it better cause I can't understand it.

Yes Flash can go faster than instant transmission, BUT needs help along with time to do it. And he wont get the time against the Defenders. Your logic is flawed again sir.<---Now, please, tell me

Flash v.3 #136-8 -- Flash evenly races an energy being who moves at or beyond lightspeed, then, boosted by the collective speed of humanity, outruns "instant transmission' that is specifically referred to as being beyond lightspeed.<---He can do it even without tapping into the speed of humanity, he has mastered the use of the Speed Force, he can reach the speed he needs to achieve.
Surfer not always speedblit guys, and his reflexes are not of Flashes level, it means he can match his speed but not even lay an hand on him.

Good try though.

Originally posted by Sentry
Namor is really underrated. Thank the inconsistency of the writers there.

Surfer will shift himself into hyperspace and take out half if not all the JLA. Surfer is not limited to the Speed Of Light. I've also proven he battles at beyond the speeds of light. He will drain Supes solar energy, just like this Sun :

PT. 1


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3642099


PT. 2



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3642153



Thus further empower himself. MM won't even have time for a telepathic assault. Strange in all his years has excellent defenses against telepaths. Dormammu, Mephisto, Shuma Gorath, all have some sort of telepathy, which I'm pretty sure is beyond that of MM's and he always finds a way to come out on top.
Surfer doesn't kill his opponents.Point.

Heat vision full force? Martian vision full force? GL ring blast? Speed force energy blasts? All at the same time? Lol. are you kidding? All that just to break Strange's ff? If the JLA has to do that, they already lost.

I do agree that the fight wont last more than 10 hours. Defenders beat the JLA then go to Atlantis for lunch.

Hulk Annual 98, 2,000 ton. Sorry.

Flash has mastered the speed force YES. Instant transmission without borrowing speed or entering the speed force? No sir. And if he tries entering the sf, he risks time travelling. Would he take the risk in battle? Doubt it.

I do agree with you saying that SS doesnt always speed blitz. Flash is always expected to though. And as we all saw in Identity Crisis, Deathstroke was counting on it. So would Strange. Plus with the speedblitz, Flash wont penetrate the ff.

Uh. Guys. The Flash in this fight is BARRY. He nowhere near Wally's potential.


Which is why I ceded this fight. The JLA's best shot was in Wally.

OMG I didnt see that. Geez if thats the case Defenders win in time for breakfast.

yeah its just barry, not wally. and i have a ? about stranges field. is it IMPOSSIBLE to get any type of attack through or is it just really really difficult. and how can it only work one way? how can the defenders be able to attack the jla, if the jla cant get through the ff?

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
yeah its just barry, not wally. and i have a ? about stranges field. is it IMPOSSIBLE to get any type of attack through or is it just really really difficult.
Ive never seen anyone or anything penetrate it.

and how can it only work one way? how can the defenders be able to attack the jla, if the jla cant get through the ff?
Thorugh the ff bubble they cant attack out of. Strange puts a protective field like aura around the members individualy. Ive only seem him do this with Hulk. When he put it around himself that enabled him to use his magics. In the ff, ive never seem him do it while inside.

Superman -- Strange(i think he can use magic LMAO)
Batman - (let namor handle him)

Wonderwoman - Hulk keep her busy.

Green Lantern (Hal), Flash (Barry) ,Aquaman. SS takes all of them, isn't GL ring energy? Ohh wait he can suck that too. LMAO.


SS can take most of the JLA by himself, and Strange this guy is master of magic.

Hulk, Namor and other can keep them busy LMAO.

He can bring people to different dimension also, if anyone gives him problem he does that.

SS is too versatile.

Physically he has taken hits from, Hulk, Champion, and Thor and got up like it was nothing etc.

Strange --- he will turn the rest into moneys? LMAO

Well to JLA's defence, GL can drain energy just as SS can. And if its Hal, that wouldnt be an issue. I still say Defenders take it though.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well to JLA's defence, GL can drain energy just as SS can. And if its Hal, that wouldnt be an issue. I still say Defenders take it though.

what energy is he gonna suck??

LMAO

where has GL sucked energy(radiation , solar , etc) before ? issue #

Defenders win. JLA has nothing for the Surfer. He could simply suck the energy out of the JLA.

I've seen people assume that Flash would simply punch out Strange. Yeah, he has to say stuff for spells, but he always has some defenses up anyway. I think it's safe to say that Flash would burn up against some invisible magic shield if he tried to hurt Strange.

And Surfer, as this debate has revolved around, could at least negate Flash's efforts to slow people down and generally just be really fast.

MM's a powerful telepath, but most of the Defenders (the important ones at least) won't be affected by him (Surfer, Strange, Hulk, etc.).

Defenders have this fight in the bag. JLA is outmatched in nearly every area.

-DM

Ditto

bitto n 1

The Silver Surfer is too much faster and more powerful than any of them. He is also immune to telepathy. Martian Manhunter won't last a nanosecond.

Dr. Strange always has magical protection, and the Cloak of Levitation allows him to fly at greater than light speeds. The Eye Of Agamotto is much more powerful than Martian Manhunters mind. Add that to the Ruby of Dominion, and Martian Manhunter's telepathy is nothing in comparison.

Savage Hulk isn't going to get knocked out. To my recollection, Savage Hulk has never been knocked unconscious by blows. If Hulk can contend with Celestials, Superman and Wonder Woman, will not dispose of him quickly.

Flash doesn't really give his teammates a higher degree of speed; from what I've seen, he sorta drags them along with him without touching them. It's almost like a form of telekinesis he can only use while running.

Defenders win this easy.

i still dont think it's that simple. MM keeps the entire JLA aware of everything happening around them. as long as they have this constant link GL can counter anything SS tries to do. the only problem i'm having is Strange's ff. it blocks all forms of attacks (physical, magical, and mental), prevents MM from even reading anyone's mind who is in the ff, but allows AOTA attacks from anyone who is inside it. . .?

omfg i just realized i spelled defenders wrong!!!!! i hate myself! *shoves finger down throat* puke

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
i still dont think it's that simple. MM keeps the entire JLA aware of everything happening around them. as long as they have this constant link GL can counter anything SS tries to do. the only problem i'm having is Strange's ff. it blocks all forms of attacks (physical, magical, and mental), prevents MM from even reading anyone's mind who is in the ff, but allows AOTA attacks from anyone who is inside it. . .?

Surfer moves faster than MM can think. GL isn't really a factor, Surfer has absorbed/manipulated Oan energy before. Not much GL can do to him.

Yes it is very clear that SS can emit, absorb almost any kind of energy.

there were lots of people saying

-heat vision will hurt
-SS can't abosrd solar energy.
-SS can't fight at light speed.

me and comic cube have shown scans that shows he can do all that.

and still people were saying shit like he is an alien ect.

it doesn't matter.

Gl isnt a factor? I beg to differ.
GL aborbed the power in the Cosimc Cube.
When did Surfer absorb/manipulate Oan energy?

yeah he only absorbed it because KYLE couldnt contain all his ring power AND all the power surfer gave parallax. surfer could barely contain it himself and almost died. he absorbed it and made sure that it didnt destroy everything but he surely cant control it the way you guys are talking about

SS didnt even absorb it. Kyle gave it to him. They must be reffering to another crossover.

the only other time they even saw each other is in one-page battle in M vs DC where they just charged at each other, there was an explosion, and klye was passed out on ss's board

Lol. Then its a good thing were talking about Hal here, cause SS would have a very very hard time beating him. If he can.

exactly

Originally posted by jrodslam
Gl isnt a factor? I beg to differ.
GL aborbed the power in the Cosimc Cube.
When did Surfer absorb/manipulate Oan energy?

Surfer absorbs Oan energy in the Fantasitic Four/Superman crossover.

Surfer would have no problem disposing of Hal. He absorbed Parallax's energy. There is nothing Hal can really do to Silver Surfer. Any Oan energy Hal directs at him, Surfer can absorb.

He can absorb the rings energy.
without the Ring Hal is nothing but a man.

We are also forgetting that Surfer is a billion times faster than any Green Lantern. He could knock him unconscious in mere nanoseconds.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Surfer absorbs Oan energy in the Fantasitic Four/Superman crossover.

Surfer would have no problem disposing of Hal. He absorbed Parallax's energy. There is nothing Hal can really do to Silver Surfer. Any Oan energy Hal directs at him, Surfer can absorb.

I'm sorry, when did GL absorb the power of a Cosmic Cube?

There is many things SS can do.

Most of his battle he ain't even using 50% of his powers.

he could end most of them in few seconds.

-The Thing ( living stone)
- Hulk
-Rhino
etc

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Surfer absorbs Oan energy in the Fantasitic Four/Superman crossover.

Surfer would have no problem disposing of Hal. He absorbed Parallax's energy. There is nothing Hal can really do to Silver Surfer. Any Oan energy Hal directs at him, Surfer can absorb.

what are you smoking????
ss wasnt even in ff/superman!!! let alone any oan power!

and i just told you, kg, if surfer tries to aborb the entire ring he will either cause the universe to explode or he will be occupied for a few moments trying to contain it all.

and he didnt absorb parallax's energy. surfer gave parallax most of his evergy, then kyle ABSORBED all of that with his ring, then he gave it to ss because kyle couldnt contain it all

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'm sorry, when did GL absorb the power of a Cosmic Cube?

he didnt "absorb it's power" persay. but he used it as a battery in JLA/Avengers

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
what are you smoking????
ss wasnt even in ff/superman!!! let alone any oan power!

and i just told you, kg, if surfer tries to aborb the entire ring he will either cause the universe to explode or he will be occupied for a few moments trying to contain it all.

and he didnt absorb parallax's energy. surfer gave parallax most of his evergy, then kyle ABSORBED all of that with his ring, then he gave it to ss because kyle couldnt contain it all

I'm talking about the entire crossover, not the Fantastic Four/Superman story.

The fight involves Thanos, Parralax, Kyle, and Silver Surfer. I have the crossover right here. Kyle couldn't contain the energy, Surfer tells him to give it to him. Kyle fires the energy at Surfer, Surfer absorbs it.

First. Surfer couldnt absorb Kyles energy. Kyle gave it to him.

Second it wasnt only Oan energy. It was a combination of Oan energy with his own energy.

Third. When he fought against Kyle he was already weakened from giving his power to Parallax. Why didnt he just absorb Kyles power then?
Because he cant absorb Oan energy.

Surfer says and I quote "Green Lanterns ring allows him to create virtually anything. Weakened as I am... My chances of overcoming such a weapon are slim."

If he was soo weakened, he should have absorbed Kyles energy then. He didnt do it because he couldnt. Kyle absorbed energy from both Thanos and Parallax and couldnt handle the power. Surfer barely managed to control it. Lucky for him it recharged him in the end.

Hal would be more of a match for SS.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'm sorry, when did GL absorb the power of a Cosmic Cube?

JLA/Avengers #2

How can Hal contend with the Silver Surfer's speed? He moves faster than he can think.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
We are also forgetting that Surfer is a billion times faster than any Green Lantern. He could knock him unconscious in mere nanoseconds.

A billion times faster? How so? Explain please.

its not all the same story. your thinking of crossover classics volume 4 trade paperback. all unrelated stories in the same book. and surfer barely contains it, and, like i said, surfer doesnt absorb anything. kyle GIVES it to him and ss contains it. and Hal would do a much better job than kyle of containg it. he is much better at control. and most of it ss's power shot right back at him

Surfer was weak in that crossover.

yet he control and absorbed OA's energy(while he was weak)

yet another example that SS can absorb energy

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
its not all the same story. your thinking of crossover classics volume 4 trade paperback. all unrelated stories in the same book. and surfer barely contains it, and, like i said, surfer doesnt absorb anything. kyle GIVES it to him and ss contains it. and Hal would do a much better job than kyle of containg it. he is much better at control. and most of it ss's power shot right back at him

I know.

I didn't say Surfer drained it. When the energy was fired at him, Silver Surfer absorbed it. That proves that If Green Lantern attacks him with Oan energy, if need be, Surfer can absorb it.
Originally posted by jrodslam
A billion times faster? How so? Explain please.

The Silver Surfer crosses hundreds of lightyears in seconds. He even thinks at greater than light speeds. How can GL contend with such speed?

he abosorbed and controled Oa's energy.

Lol. Most of the energy he was geting was his own. Thats why he was so drained when he fought Kyle. Second he WAS NOT able to absorb the oan energy if Kyle didnt give it to him. If he could When they were fighting, why didnt he do it then? Because he CANT absorb Oan energy. Other energies yes. But not Oan.

he doesnt have to. all hal has to do is put up a shield, and surfer can get through it. it really all comes down to the power of stange's defences. i still dont fully comprehend it. speed is not the main factor. its that if strange's shield really does what everyone says it does, jla really can touch any of them. if it's not there. MM can just shut everyone's mind down except strange's, where all the others can beat the crap out of him

Most of the energy was Parralax's.

Kyle blasted him with the Oan energy, he didn't hand it to him. Surfer can obviously absorb Oan energy. It wouldn't have been much of a fight if Surfer just absorbed all of the a Oan energy projected at him.

How will Green Lantern contend with Surfer's speed?

Ok and Hal teleports and can travel thrtough time. Monkey see Monkey do.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Lol. Most of the energy he was geting was his own. Thats why he was so drained when he fought Kyle. Second he WAS NOT able to absorb the oan energy if Kyle didnt give it to him. If he could When they were fighting, why didnt he do it then? Because he CANT absorb Oan energy. Other energies yes. But not Oan.

exactly

Speed is everything.

GL has to THINK to put up a shield. Surfer is much, much, faster than thought.

Surfer is immune to telepathy. To a certain degree, so is Hulk.

or the shield is up before hand. whenever the jla goes on cosmic missions they travel in a gl-made bubble

First off Most of it wasnt Parallax's energy cause Kyle absorbed it from Both Thanos and Parallax. Surfer gave MOST of his power to Parallax, while Kyle only gave a portion to Thanos. Surfer tells Kyle "Give the power to me!!"

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ok and Hal teleports and can travel thrtough time. Monkey see Monkey do.

Surfer can time travel too. Never seen him teleport though.

Nevertheless, Hal has a human brain that only thinks at 30m/s. That is much, much too slow.

Kyle didn't give his powers he gave OA's energy?

where do you think Parralax get's his power? OA

SS absorbed the energy when he was weak( all of it)

Originally posted by jrodslam
First off Most of it wasnt Parallax's energy cause Kyle absorbed it from Both Thanos and Parallax. Surfer gave MOST of his power to Parallax, while Kyle only gave a portion to Thanos. Surfer tells Kyle "Give the power to me!!"

Where does it say Surfer gave MOST of his power to Parralax? Surfer gives Hal a small fraction of the power cosmic.

Say, what is Hal going to do about Surfer's speed?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Surfer can time travel too. Never seen him teleport though.

Nevertheless, Hal has a human brain that only thinks at 30m/s. That is much, much too slow.

where, in any science, thought is 30m/s??? how the hell do measure the speed of thought! you can think a distance!

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
if he has never done it before he wont do it now

If this were another crossover, you'd be dead on correct.

But it isn't. If Surfer uses his power to it's fullest capability, Hal can't give him a fight.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Where does it say Surfer gave MOST of his power to Parralax? Surfer gives Hal a small fraction of the power cosmic.

Say, what is Hal going to do about Surfer's speed?

Lol page 46 buddy. Surfer says

"But I can be of little aid. Iv'e barely any power left."

What does that mean? C'mon pal i have the book. You do too, so try reading it.

technically he has the pontential for being capable of accomplishing such feets as turning thing into sand, but he hasnt. so he wont

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well
1. he didnt suck Oan energy.
2. DC writers didnt want that type of ending for Kyle? So why didnt he "suck" it from Parallax? or even Thanos? Sorry sir, but your logic is flawed.

Tough
Because he was weak, or did you not read that issue.

Kyle took it, then transferred into SS who absorbed and controlled it something which kyle couldn't do, and SS did it when he was weak.

Are you trying to say SS can't absorb energy?

http://img144.exs.cx/img144/8404/dcpgl1109sa.jpg

People just dont respect GL.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Lol page 46 buddy. Surfer says

"But I can be of little aid. Iv'e barely any power left."

What does that mean? C'mon pal i have the book. You do too, so try reading it.

You're right. However, Kyle absorbs the totality of Parralax's power. He then gives all of that power to Surfer. It was more of Parralax's power than his own.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
technically he has the pontential for being capable of accomplishing such feets as turning thing into sand, but he hasnt. so he wont
he hasn't but his powers stolen from doom has.

this is a forum.

will superman Use heat vision on batman and kill him? no

same thing.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
where, in any science, thought is 30m/s??? how the hell do measure the speed of thought! you can think a distance!

Originally posted by Tron
Concerning Superspeed

It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles

Originally posted by kgkg
Tough
Because he was weak, or did you not read that issue.

Kyle took it, then transferred into SS who absorbed and controlled it something which kyle couldn't do, and SS did it when he was weak.

Are you trying to say SS can't absorb energy?

Yes he was weak. Why? Cause he gave most of his power to Parallax.

Absorbed it then controlled it why? Cause Kyle GAVE him the Oan energy as well as the energy he already gave Parallax. Basically he was getting all his power back along with Thano's.

And NO im not saying he cant absorb energy. Just not Oan energy without it being GIVEN to him.

The energy was FIRED at him, not handed to him.

where the hell di he get that??? that the biggest load of shit i've ever read. and kg, that's not the same thing. supes has killed with heat vision before. we are not 100% sure surfer really can do what his power implies if he hasnt done it

SS can absorb energy.

GL Ring = energy.

he can't? you guys tell me why not.
SS can knock him out before he think? could happend
GL has shield ---- most of the time he doesn't

the real Q is what will a GL do to SS when using all his powers? not much.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
You're right. However, Kyle absorbs the totality of Parralax's power. He then gives all of that power to Surfer. It was more of Parralax's power than his own.

No. It was HALF Parallax's power and HALF Surfer power. Kyle took in some Oan energy as well but alont with Surfers and Thano's it was too much.

Parallax is Hal Jrodan. Kyle isnt on his level. Thats why the thread says GL(Hal) and not GL(Kyle).

Hal wins.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
where the hell di he get that??? that the biggest load of shit i've ever read. and kg, that's not the same thing. supes has killed with heat vision before. we are not 100% sure surfer really can do what his power implies if he hasnt done it
What hasn't he done?

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
where the hell di he get that??? that the biggest load of shit i've ever read. and kg, that's not the same thing. supes has killed with heat vision before. we are not 100% sure surfer really can do what his power implies if he hasnt done it

The Silver Surfer has turned Impossible Man into Wolverine. He once turned a napkin holder into gold.

Can anyone tell me what GL is going to do to counter Silver Surfer's speed?

Originally posted by jrodslam
No. It was HALF Parallax's power and HALF Surfer power. Kyle took in some Oan energy as well but alont with Surfers and Thano's it was too much.

Parallax is Hal Jrodan. Kyle isnt on his level. Thats why the thread says GL(Hal) and not GL(Kyle).

Hal wins.
half ? where did u get that

Parallax = Silver Surfer? is that's what u r saying?

Originally posted by kgkg
What hasn't he done?
turned enemies into dust

GL ring DOESNT = energy.
GL ring = Willpower.

He cant, because he didnt do it. He didnt do it to Kyle OR Parallax.
GL also has cosmic awareness SS is not gonna hit before he could think.
In space, GL always has shield, and its good enough. FF bubble is different.

What will SS do to GL when using all his powers? Not much either. Thats why they wouldnt fight each other in my eyes.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
turned enemies into dust

Turned him into Wolverine. Even worse, if you ask me.

Originally posted by jrodslam
GL ring DOESNT = energy.
GL ring = Willpower.

He cant, because he didnt do it. He didnt do it to Kyle OR Parallax.
GL also has cosmic awareness SS is not gonna hit before he could think.
In space, GL always has shield, and its good enough. FF bubble is different.

What will SS do to GL when using all his powers? Not much either. Thats why they wouldnt fight each other in my eyes.

I've heard that arguement. Not very tenative.

Surfer can do alot more to Hal than Hal can do to him.

I'm not stupid. Cosmic awareness does not mean he has faster thought speed or reaction. It means he can feel energy around him. GL cannot think faster than lightspeed.

What will Hal do to counter Surfer's speed? He can't think fast enough to react.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The Silver Surfer has turned Impossible Man into Wolverine. He once turned a napkin holder into gold.

Can anyone tell me what GL is going to do to counter Silver Surfer's speed?

GL is just as fast. At least Hal is.

Yes HALF. Klye didnt absorb ALL of Parallax's power. He just took what didnt belong. All the extra energy. Did you read the book? Both Thanos and Parallax were sent back to their universes.

Read this

He says they must strip the ring of there energy? ENERGY

Surfer absorb any type of energy.(read SS comic , any solar , gamma , radiation)

Why didn't he do? He is weakened that's why

Read below

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I've heard that arguement. Not very tenative.

Surfer can do alot more to Hal than Hal can do to him.

Like what?

I'm not stupid. Cosmic awareness does not mean he has faster thought speed or reaction. It means he can feel energy around him. GL cannot think faster than lightspeed.

Exactly. He knows when SS is coming or near. Thats what Cosmic awareness is about.

What will Hal do to counter Surfer's speed? He can't think fast enough to react.

Does SS FIGHT at lightspeeds? Ive yet to see it. Flying is one thing.

ok its pretty apparent that surfer beats hal. . . i just wanted this to be more of a fight but between stranges universally impenatrable defence and surfers ability to do pretty much anything its kind of in the bag but the ONLY reason surfer beats hal is because of strange's force field

Hal is nowhere near as fast as Surfer and you know it. Green Lanterns use wormholes to travel across the galaxy. If you claim otherwise, prove it.

Parallax is apparently devoid of energy and unconscious after Kyle absorbs his energy. Where did you read Kyle absorbed half of Parralax's energy?

Originally posted by kgkg
Read this

He says they must strip the ring of there energy? ENERGY

Surfer absorb any type of energy.(read SS comic , any solar , gamma , radiation)

Why didn't he do? He is weakened that's why

Read below

And if youre weakened, what do we go folks? ABSORB MORE ENERGY. instead it was handed on a plate to him.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
ok its pretty apparent that surfer beats hal. . . i just wanted this to be more of a fight but between stranges universally impenatrable defence and surfers ability to do pretty much anything its kind of in the bag
finnaly

Good night

and anyone else read that scan shows why he didn't do it.

Silver Surfer does not fight hand to hand. He is capable of thinking, moving, and reacting at greater than light speeds. Hal isn't.

Originally posted by kgkg
finnaly

Good night

and anyone else read that scan shows why he didn't do it.

read the edit!!!

start a ss vs hal thread i'll be voting for hal

Not calling you guys fanboys or anything, but it seems that whenever a DC character is the slower character in a DC vs Marvel fight, speed isn't a factor. In a vice versa scenario, speed is everything.

thats pretty general of you cosmic cube, since when have i ever argued for a dc character before?

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
but the ONLY reason surfer beats hal is because of strange's force field

You know that isn't true.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
thats pretty general of you cosmic cube, since when have i ever argued for a dc character before?

Not you Quick Freeze. It just seems that my speed argument is being ignored.

ok, but it's alot easier to argue for hal withouth the ff, everytime in this particular fight i delete most of the arguements im going to make because of strange's ff. and your speed arguement isnt ignored. its just a pet peeve of mine when aruements always come down to who's fastest. and thats rarely the case is comics and real life. and like jrod said, surfer doesnt fight as fast as he flies. someone like flash, yes, even barry, probably fights faster than surfer because he trained him self to fight at top speed.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hal is nowhere near as fast as Surfer and you know it. Green Lanterns use wormholes to travel across the galaxy. If you claim otherwise, prove it.

Parallax is apparently devoid of energy and unconscious after Kyle absorbs his energy. Where did you read Kyle absorbed half of Parralax's energy?

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/J_L_of_A_211-10.jpg

He didnt absorb all Thanos's and Parallax's energy. All he took was the energy thever stonlet to become all powerfull.

Hal also able to stop time? Uhhh Ohhh. Can SS compete with that?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/1989-03-14_Action_Comics_642_22_GL.jpg

he's got a very very good point there. i never new hal could do that

Alot of people dont my friend. Not sure if Kyle could do all this, but then again the tread is about Hal.

will im gonna hit the sack but when cc and kg see that tomorrow we'll be ready to continue this

yea mee too. Gotta back at work at 7 in the morning. Later.

Surfer can manipulate time.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The Silver Surfer is too much faster and more powerful than any of them. He is also immune to telepathy. Martian Manhunter won't last a nanosecond.

Dr. Strange always has magical protection, and the Cloak of Levitation allows him to fly at greater than light speeds. The Eye Of Agamotto is much more powerful than Martian Manhunters mind. Add that to the Ruby of Dominion, and Martian Manhunter's telepathy is nothing in comparison.

Savage Hulk isn't going to get knocked out. To my recollection, Savage Hulk has never been knocked unconscious by blows. If Hulk can contend with Celestials, Superman and Wonder Woman, will not dispose of him quickly.

Flash doesn't really give his teammates a higher degree of speed; from what I've seen, he sorta drags them along with him without touching them. It's almost like a form of telekinesis he can only use while running.

Defenders win this easy.
Defenders win easy.Yes, and Nixon was a good guy.
Savage Hulk was knocked out on various occasions.
Ravage snapped his neck and knocked him unconscious.
Abomination knocked him unconscious.
Absorbing Man did it too.
Hulk never contend with Celestials, what the hell are you saying.
He never fought with Celestials, he was empowered by Celestial tech, wich his a totally different argument.
Flash can transmit speed force energy into other beings granting them superspeed powers.
He did it with Aquaman during the issue in which the JLA was fighting the Ultramarine Corp

Originally posted by jrodslam
Heat vision full force? Martian vision full force? GL ring blast? Speed force energy blasts? All at the same time? Lol. are you kidding? All that just to break Strange's ff? If the JLA has to do that, they already lost.

I do agree that the fight wont last more than 10 hours. Defenders beat the JLA then go to Atlantis for lunch.

Hulk Annual 98, 2,000 ton. Sorry.

Flash has mastered the speed force YES. Instant transmission without borrowing speed or entering the speed force? No sir. And if he tries entering the sf, he risks time travelling. Would he take the risk in battle? Doubt it. <---Deathstroke beating Flash was kinda crap, the precog of Deathstroke is stile too slow for someone which possess a brain activity faster than the lightning.

I do agree with you saying that SS doesnt always speed blitz. Flash is always expected to though. And as we all saw in Identity Crisis, Deathstroke was counting on it. So would Strange. Plus with the speedblitz, Flash wont penetrate the ff.

c'MON FOLKS DEFENDERS ARE just too much for these punks.

Im biting my tongue to stay out of this one

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Im biting my tongue to stay out of this one

awww come on

JLA wins

The Defenders will win.

They have Dr. Strange, the most powerful sorcerer in the universe, Silver Surfer; he's lightyears faster than anyone in the JLA, and way more powerful, and they have Hulk: the strongest one there is!

Nightwing II, Valkyrie, and Namor will play cleanup. Surfer, Strange, and Hulk will do most of the work.

look there's no doubt that on paper defenders look like the sextet of superheros assembled. but beleive or not jla has overcome greater. they have the best dynamics of any team ever. they have meatings for crying out loud.
here's a very possible out come:

hulk thinks that namor calls him stupid
hulk and namor scruff it up
surfer leaves in disgust of the way earthlings kill each other
strange and valkyrie try to keep everything together til nightwing catches cancer or falls down a well or gets bitten by a fly and they have to call every superhero in the MU to have some sort of ceremony to revive/save him.


they are all great superheros. marvel writers put them together because they are marvels greatest LONERS. what makes their comics interesting is that they hate each other. meanwhile JLA can execute some sort of brilliant plan bats and supes make up and do it with ease because they are constantly linked via MM.


the defenders only band together when completely necissary, like saving the universe against an impossible threat. if they dont see JLA as a threat to begin with, they loose for many reasons. . .

why does the thread die EVERYTIME i make my team dynamics arguements

you ALL SUCK!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

lol

i dont like how it ended up being hal vs surfer

and does anybody have anything to say about my team dynamics arguements!?!?!?

Originally posted by Sentry
By the way, I'd like to give props to kgkg for those scans.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Again, he's stronger than cl 85-90.
Strange already has the ff up. Around the whole group i might add.
When spell is active, ive never seem anyone be able to probe the mind of Strange or the group. Therefore your theory of MM entering the mind of the Defenders is flawed.
MM entering the mnid of Megaddon may be impressive, but a GL who isnt on the same level is able to withstand MM's mental attacks. Go figure. Once again youre theory is flawed. MM's mental probe works sometimes, but not all the time. On the other hand when Strange puts up a mental block, its never been obstructed.

Thus Defenders still win.

Oh. And the point you brought up about Supes or Flash speedblitzing before Strange can utter a spell. Just to let you know he doesnt need to say the words to render the whole JLA in stasis OR cast them to another dimension. Read Defenders Vol.2 #16 then get back to me.
nice i agree