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Who takes it? Rock of Eternity seemed to stop Spectre recently according to Draco, Can Shazams full potential stop God's wrath? The Presence commands Shazam must die! Can Shazam with the Rock Of Eternity stop the Spectre again?

I'm going to change around Draco's words.I'd take Presense over the Rock of Eternity anyday.

We'll find out soon enough. The DC countdown series features Shazam going up against Spectre (without Hal which makes him much more powerful)

And it wasn't recently it was like the mid 90s.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
I'm going to change around Draco's words.I'd take Presense over the Rock of Eternity anyday.

I didn't say that the Spectre was full-powered at the time. From what I understand there were circumstances involved.

c'mon Presence created the magic. if he made Spectre full power only around a handful could only defeat him. No magic rock will stop him. I doubt that it is equal to the HOTU or even the IG. I do wonder one thing. Were the DC writers on crack and drinking vodka when they came up with the idea of giving Shazam such a powerful object?

The Rock of Eternity is very powerful. But I doubt its on the Presence's level since the Rock of Eternity channels Earthbound multiverse magic.

We'll see this summer. A bad Spectre takes on every magic user in the DC universe. And the frontline is Captain Marvel.

but why give Shazam such a powerful object when he already rivals Superman?

It's not his. In fact the "rock" isn't really a rock. It's more like a mountain. A big-ass mountain floating in a featureless dimension.

then how can he channel its full power.

Do I hear power ups? More people to add to DC's overpowered roster.

Overpowered roster??

HA!

Marvel is the most overpowered comic canon in existence. Please!

They have at LEAST a 100 different beings with the power to destroy planets.

Originally posted by Draco69
Overpowered roster??

HA!

Marvel is the most overpowered comic canon in existence. Please!

They have at LEAST a 100 different beings with the power to destroy planets.

DC has that and much more. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Man, I cant wait for the countdown.

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=3645

you mean this

Yep.

The 6-issue miniseries spinning from COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS is rocked by the awesome might of some of the DCU's most powerful beings! If the combined power of Shazam and the Shadowpact isn't enough to take down the Spectre, what will be? Does Detective Chimp have the answer?

Shazam ,shown by this summary, cannot take down Spectre.

Originally posted by Sentry
DC has that and much more. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Please.

Ego. The Celestials. The Eternals. Galactus. Love/Hate etc.

Insanity looks good on you.

don't forget Magneto

Correct me if Im wrong but If I remember right. DC has overpowered EARTH characters(Superman and such), but Marvel has overpowered COSMIC characters.

The problem with that is that there only at most 20 to 50 "overpowered" DC characters on Earth.

Marvel has a RIDICULOUS amount of overpowered cosmic characters. I can't keep up with them all.

And Marvel has begun to give boosts to Marvel Earth characters now. Iron Man has an armour capable of wielding Godforce energy. Storm can create EMPs and gravitywells. Magneto is now on Silver Surfer's level. Johnny is a cosmic herald. SHEESH.

what about Magneto and Iceman? and New Son Gambit and White Queen Phoenix? etc.

God-Like Cable. King Thor. She-Hulk. Wasp. Scarlet Witch. Beast. Colossus.

don't tell me that they aren't overpowered.

Superman 1 million, Superman Prime, Shazam, Spectre, Aquaman's telepathy and recent strength upgrades, All the other 1 million characters, Michael, Morningstar, All the Pre-Crisis characters, Swamp Thing, Etc... Just goes on and on and on.......

If TOAA told Spectre to destroy everyone, he could do it.
At full potential, Spectre would be as powerful as God himself.

Spectre is gods wrath he's supposed to be able to be that powerful.
Michael is an archangel he is like an extremely high level cosmic.
Pre-Crisis has been long gone. i agree that DC does overpower their characters but thats only if you're comparing Superman to Spider-man. Both companies like to overpower.

Nah man....here's how to look at it.

Quicksilver can run real fast...now he can run ridiclously superfast.

The Flash can make 1 second seem like years....


Who's overpowered?

Originally posted by Sentry
Superman 1 million, Superman Prime, Shazam, Spectre, Aquaman's telepathy and recent strength upgrades, All the other 1 million characters, Michael, Morningstar, All the Pre-Crisis characters, Swamp Thing, Etc... Just goes on and on and on.......

Phoenix Force, Ego, Galactus, Thanos, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, all the Eternals, the Over-Mind, the Celestials, Galactus's cosmic heralds, Eternity, Sentry, Hyperion, the Hulks, Juggernaut, Gladiator, TOAA The Heart Of The Universe, Living Tribunal, The Infinity Gauntlet, Death Infinity Full Potential Galactus, Oblivion, Gravitron, Master Order, Drax, Adam Warlock, Gamora, Pip, Moondragon, Lord Chaos, Chronos, Stranger, Eon, Hoggoth, Oshtur, Agamotto, In-Betweener, Dr. Strange, Molecule Man, Apoclyspse, Shaper of Worlds, All the Phoenixes, Shaper of Worlds, Beyonder, Kubik, Mephisto, The Egyptian Pantheon, the Norse Gods, the Greek Gods, Dormammu, Shuma Gorath, the Elder gods, Demogorge The God Eater, Franklin Richards, Chthon, Set, Cyttarok, Demiurge. Gaea, Tyrant, the Gamesmaster, Beta Ray Bill, All Skyfathers, Destroyer Armor, Shaman X-Man, Captain Universe, Cosmic Spider-Man, War-Hulk, Genis-Vell, BlackHeart, Super Skrull, Annahilus, Blaastar, Black Bolt, Ultron, Count Mandarin, Cassandra Nova, Count Nefaria, Dr. Doom, Abraxas

PLEAAAAAAASE!

Nice Try though.

what about Thanos and Darkseid?

Gladiator and Normal Supes.

Originally posted by JWangSDC
Nah man....here's how to look at it.

Quicksilver can run real fast...now he can run ridiclously superfast.

The Flash can make 1 second seem like years....


Who's overpowered?

The base characters. The Big 7. That's pretty much it. The rest are very beatable. Booster Gold. Blue Beetle. Maxima. Dr. Light II.

Marvel is the overpowered company. People just refuse to see the OVERALL BIG PICTURE.

For the first 20 years Marvel had maybe 4 uber characters, the rest were basically enhanced human.
But now that Marvel has surpassed DC in sales and popularity, they have to please certian fans who only want Uber characters.

DC on the other hand, are now downgrading all their characters.
Which appeals to me.
Do you think 15 years ago D.C would have let Deathstroke tear through their biggest team? hell no.

They're switching up tactics, and it's working.

The Deathstroke fight made no sense. His methods of defeating Zatanna, Hawkman, the Atom, Green Arrow, Elongated Man and Black Canary I can buy.

But GL and the Flash. Absolute bull****.

about GL and Flash fight with Deathstroke. completely unrealistic.

Everybody kept saying Deathstroke beat the JLA but most of the people he beat next to Flash, and GL weren't all powered, and just normal humans for the most part.

I kept thinking of the JLA as in Flash, GL, MM, Batman, Superman, WW, and so forth...Glad that's cleared up now. Now I can see him beating them up 'cept GL, and Flash. And that Kyle tried to fight him in HtH...what was up with that.

he got hit with a dummy stick the day before that's what happened.

i might buy draco's argument about marvel having more uber characters - though i'm sure if we worked at it we could name one uber character in the dc lineup for each marvel character on his list (don't forget about the sandman series and its characters, preacher and its cast, many of dr fate's opponents are in the same class as hoggoth et al) - but it seems most of marvel's mightiest (eternity, LT HOTU) never really take part in the 'general' happenings. many are simply abstract, and tend (for the most part) to stay that way. if you're lumping in juggs and gladiator and characters of that ilk, i don't think that's really gonna support your argument too much though - we could easily partner up a dc counterpart (often it has been dc who actually created the prototype of the character) with characters of this level.

overall though, i agree - marvel probably has more powerful characters. problem is, having powerful characters begets the creation of MORE powerful characters because, well, those characters need SOMEONE to combat. the 'cosmic' superheroes need 'cosmic level menaces'. who wants to see SS take down a bank robber?? is it a problem? i don't think so - IF the characters are well written. some of these newcomers though thta marvel has recently created (onslaught for one) have origins that make no sense and just end up seeming silly. least to me.

and then of course there's the other thing - marvel wouldn't be creating more and more of these universe level characters if readers out there weren't buying and clamoring for them. changing times. i'm sure the cycle will swing the other way again - eventually.

even though shazam is pretty much dead in this match up, but still dont go comparing full power spectre with god, lucifer could squash a full powered spectar anyday. full powered spectar= wraith of god, not god himself,

yo....which jl comic is it which slade goes against the jl.....i wanna buy it....never read it....but ive heard so much about it....

Originally posted by Draco69
Phoenix Force, Ego, Galactus, Thanos, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, all the Eternals, the Over-Mind, the Celestials, Galactus's cosmic heralds, Eternity, Sentry, Hyperion, the Hulks, Juggernaut, Gladiator, TOAA The Heart Of The Universe, Living Tribunal, The Infinity Gauntlet, Death Infinity Full Potential Galactus, Oblivion, Gravitron, Master Order, Drax, Adam Warlock, Gamora, Pip, Moondragon, Lord Chaos, Chronos, Stranger, Eon, Hoggoth, Oshtur, Agamotto, In-Betweener, Dr. Strange, Molecule Man, Apoclyspse, Shaper of Worlds, All the Phoenixes, Shaper of Worlds, Beyonder, Kubik, Mephisto, The Egyptian Pantheon, the Norse Gods, the Greek Gods, Dormammu, Shuma Gorath, the Elder gods, Demogorge The God Eater, Franklin Richards, Chthon, Set, Cyttarok, Demiurge. Gaea, Tyrant, the Gamesmaster, Beta Ray Bill, All Skyfathers, Destroyer Armor, Shaman X-Man, Captain Universe, Cosmic Spider-Man, War-Hulk, Genis-Vell, BlackHeart, Super Skrull, Annahilus, Blaastar, Black Bolt, Ultron, Count Mandarin, Cassandra Nova, Count Nefaria, Dr. Doom, Abraxas

PLEAAAAAAASE!

Nice Try though.


Uhh...Gammora and Pip should not be on that list...most of the others are Abstracts, Universal Forces, Gods, or Demons......The human level characters aren't really that powerful compared to them...DC has powered up Shazam to withstand the wrath of God for Cripes sake..you think that's not overpowered...all I have to say is..BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAHAH...erhem..Ha..

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Uhh...Gammora and Pip should not be on that list...most of the others are Abstracts, Universal Forces, Gods, or Demons......The human level characters aren't really that powerful compared to them...Now DC on the other hand..would have Superman alone taking on half of these guys by himself.. now that's overpowered......

Ouch. Lol.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Uhh...Gammora and Pip should not be on that list...most of the others are Abstracts, Universal Forces, Gods, or Demons......The human level characters aren't really that powerful compared to them...DC has powered up Shazam to withstand the wrath of God for Cripes sake..you think that's not overpowered...all I have to say is..BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHAHAH...erhem..Ha..

Gammora and Pip with their Infinity Gems are incredibly powerful.


The problem is that Marvel is extremely overpowered. DC has done the opposite for years. They have been depowering their characters. Marvel has given Cable, Gambit, Storm, Thor and even Magneto ridiculously powerful powerups.

Scarlet Witch. Need I say more?

I cant argue with you there Draco. 100% right. For the most part.

Amen Draco. You cant argue with that.

DC has archangel Michael, Lucifer mourning star, the beast. Are you kidding me. DC by far has more powerful characters on earth then do marvel. But marvel does have more powerful cosmic beings that kick DC a$$. but most of those characters where to take on precrisis characters that where to damn powerful, pre-crisis superman was to damn powerful sneezing a solar system out of existence now that is bullsh**.


But a full powered spectre will win by a mile, he has god on side.

The characters you are referring to are few and inbetween. Marvel has an absurd amount of cosmic level characters. At least 100 of them. Pre-Crisis DC is said and done. Never again. Marvel on the other hand is fond of reinstating the Pre-Crisis characters. (i.e. Gladiator, Hyperion, Sentry)

Marvel has been amping their characters relentlessly.

Scarlet Witch used to have hex spheres. NOW she can alter all reality as she sees fits.

Magneto used to control magnetism. NOW he can create blackholes.

Wasp used to shrink to the size of a wasp. NOW she can grow to a hundred feet and fire bio-electric beams as well.

Beast used to only lift 2000 pds. NOW He can lift up to 40 tons.

Human Torch used to control flame. NOW he's a cosmic herald.

Jean Grey used to be a telekinetic. NOW she's the White Crown Phoenix.

Thor used to be the god of thunder. NOW he's insanely powerful with the OdinForce.

Storm used to control the weather. NOW she can alter the electromagnetic spectrum.

Spider-Man used to rely on web cartiriges. NOW he has organic webbing.

Gambit used to have only kinetic powers. NOW he has telepathy.

Emma Frost used to be a telepath. NOW she can turn into a diamond.

She-Hulk could lift 75 tons max. NOW she can beat the Champion and can lift the Thing's max...with one arm.

Falcon used to control ONE bird. NOW he can control an entire freakin flock.

Iceman used to be a sub-par ice manipulator. NOW his control over temperature is ridiculous.

Quicksilver used to go at 500 mph max. NOW he can break the sound barrier.

Wonder Man used to be a guy with super-strength. NOW he's a pure ionic being with immortality.

The Hulk used to be vulnerable to telepathy. NOW he's immune to telepathy.

Psylocke used to have psy-knives. NOW she has uber-powerful telekinesis.

Ridiculous.

Originally posted by Draco69
Gammora and Pip with their Infinity Gems are incredibly powerful.


Not really..they're a little bit stronger and faster..that's it..they really don't know how to use the gems very well......anyway..neither of them come close to the level of power of most of the others you mentioned on that list...




Somewhat..DC has always had ridiculously overpowered characters..they toned it down a bit in the 80's..key words here are "a bit." IMO, Marvel has always had better continuity, better storylines, and more logical progression when introducing/upgrading characters.

DC on the other hand just goes to extremes..I mean the current Aquaman could give freaking the Hulk and all the Avengers a hard time for Cripes Sake..same goes for Batman(giving him a freaking mother box ruins the initial concept of the character)..and the rest of the JLA..

DC definately tops Marvel when it comes to the fantasy and the obsurd departments...

Originally posted by whobdamandog



Somewhat..DC has always had ridiculously overpowered characters..they toned it down a bit in the 80's..key words here are "a bit." IMO, Marvel has always had better continuity, better storylines, and more logical progression when introducing/upgrading characters.

DC on the other hand just goes to extremes..I mean the current Aquaman could give freaking the Hulk and all the Avengers a hard time for Cripes Sake..same goes for Batman(giving him a freaking mother box ruins the initial concept of the character)..and the rest of the JLA..

DC definately tops Marvel when it comes to the fantasy and the obsurd departments...

And Current Scarlet Witch destroyed the Avengers and is a threat to all reality. You're comparing Aquaman to her?


Marvel has been amping their characters relentlessly.

Scarlet Witch used to have hex spheres. NOW she can alter all reality as she sees fits.

Magneto used to control magnetism. NOW he can create blackholes.

Wasp used to shrink to the size of a wasp. NOW she can grow to a hundred feet and fire bio-electric beams as well.

Beast used to only lift 2000 pds. NOW He can lift up to 40 tons.

Human Torch used to control flame. NOW he's a cosmic herald.

Jean Grey used to be a telekinetic. NOW she's the White Crown Phoenix.

Thor used to be the god of thunder. NOW he's insanely powerful with the OdinForce.

Storm used to control the weather. NOW she can alter the electromagnetic spectrum.

Spider-Man used to rely on web cartiriges. NOW he has organic webbing.

Gambit used to have only kinetic powers. NOW he has telepathy.

Emma Frost used to be a telepath. NOW she can turn into a diamond.

She-Hulk could lift 75 tons max. NOW she can beat the Champion and can lift the Thing's max...with one arm.

Falcon used to control ONE bird. NOW he can control an entire freakin flock.

Iceman used to be a sub-par ice manipulator. NOW his control over temperature is ridiculous.

Quicksilver used to go at 500 mph max. NOW he can break the sound barrier.

Wonder Man used to be a guy with super-strength. NOW he's a pure ionic being with immortality.

The Hulk used to be vulnerable to telepathy. NOW he's immune to telepathy.

Psylocke used to have psy-knives. NOW she has uber-powerful telekinesis.


Stating that Marvel has "better" storylines is your opinion but certainly not evidence for overpowering. I on the other hand have provided the above.

Well I've already given one example(ie Aquaman..Here are a couple of others..)

Shazam...

Batman...(Mother box and master of 127 different martial arts, has everything but the kitchen sink in the damb utility belt)

Flash....(Do I really need to explain)

Wonder Woman(..She's 2nd to Superman..)

Atom..can essentially defeat anyone with his abilities...

Zatana...she can do anything she wants all she has to do is say it backwards..lol..(give me a break)

The list goes on and on..and there's no reason in hell as to why Shazam should be able to take on God..lol

Correction. Zantana doesnt really have to say the spells backwards anymore.

Many of the changes you mentioned above represented a logical progression of the characters powers..Ice Man, Quick Silver, Magneto, Hulk and many of the others you mentioned didn't make these changes over night. But again..this is all my opinion, anyway you slice it, both of these companies have really become pretty redundant and ridiculous when it comes to upgrading their characters.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Many of the changes you mentioned above represented a logical progression of the characters powers..Ice Man, Quick Silver, Magneto, Hulk and many of the others you mentioned didn't make these changes over night. But again..this is all my opinion, anyway you slice it, both of these companies have really become pretty redundant and ridiculous when it comes to upgrading their characters.

Agreed.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Well I've already given one example(ie Aquaman..Here are a couple of others..)

Shazam...

Batman...(Mother box and master of 127 different martial arts, has everything but the kitchen sink in the damb utility belt)

Flash....(Do I really need to explain)

Wonder Woman(..She's 2nd to Superman..)

Atom..can essentially defeat anyone with his abilities...

Zatana...she can do anything she wants all she has to do is say it backwards..lol..(give me a break)

The list goes on and on..and there's no reason in hell as to why Shazam should be able to take on God..lol

Magneto can create blackholes

The Hulk can destroy planet-sized astroids.

Thor has the blasted OdinForce

Scarlet Witch can do ANYTHING.

Wonder Man has ridiculous amount of power.

Storm can create gravitywells.

Sersi. Need say more?

There's really no comparsion

You only refer to the top 5 of DC. Which is what everybody else does. But like everyone else you don't refer to the BIG PICTURE. Marvel is ridiculously overpowered. Silver Surfer, Ego, Celestials, Galactus, Thanos, etc. The list goes on forever.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Many of the changes you mentioned above represented a logical progression of the characters powers..Ice Man, Quick Silver, Magneto, Hulk and many of the others you mentioned didn't make these changes over night. But again..this is all my opinion, anyway you slice it, both of these companies have really become pretty redundant and ridiculous when it comes to upgrading their characters.

And the characters you have mentioned have stayed the same for the most part. Marvel has boosted nearly every goddamn character in their arsenal. And with no signs of letting up.

And how is Gambit getting telepathy and She-Hulk gettin the Power Gem logical?

Originally posted by gautam
yo....which jl comic is it which slade goes against the jl.....i wanna buy it....never read it....but ive heard so much about it.... Identity Crisis #3

You must not have read many Marvel Titles. The asteroid incident, for example..was actually done quite a while back in Hulk's respective history. Anyway..Hulk has always done things that are..well.."Incredible"...over the course of his history. If anything..he's been powered down quite a bit in recent years..

She Hulk is really written to be a parody on comic book characters as a whole....her upgrade really isn't meant to be taken seriously...

Thor became the "All Father" of Asgard after Odin passed away...thus giving him a power upgrade...

Wonderman has always been powerful..and really has been downgraded quite a bit over the years...

Anyway..my basic point is that Marvel generally has a "logical" explanation as to why there characters receive power boosts..They usually give some sort of quasi scientific explanation as to why the character received an upgrade..Unlike DC's typical "Let's rewrite history" approach..lol ...I mean..I understand the concept of "suspsension of disbelief" must be applied when reading comics..but DC takes this concept to a completely "absurd" level... I have an easier time accepting Ice Man being able to freeze water molecules, than I do with Shazam being able to go toe to toe with God..puhleasse...

Since when can Shazam go toe to toe with God? What you talking about? The Spectre is rogue. His powers have decreased dramatically.

I'm arguing that Marvel has been boosting any and all of their characters for no reason. Sure there's an explanation for it. But it doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

DC has remained consistent since the Crisis. Aquaman was the only person they really upgraded. And he NEEDED an upgrade. Marvel upgrades every single mutant and omega-level character they can get their hands on.

And if you look at if from a bigger picture, the COSMIC scale of Marvel is ridiculous. DC Earth keeps it consistent. But Marvel warps all reasoning on the cosmic scale as well as the planetary scale.

Originally posted by Draco69
...Since when can Shazam go toe to toe with God? What you talking about? The Spectre is rogue. His powers have decreased dramatically.


Let me break this down in simple terms...

There is no way in hell some smiley howdy-doody looking Superman rip off should be able to withstand even the smallest portion of "God's Wrath" aka..the Spectre..

Nuff Said...

P.S. Your info on Marvel's comics/characters is waay off...trust me..I'm a huge Marvel Buff...

P.S.S. Read more Marvel Comics....

P.S.S.S. DC sucks..BWAHAHAHAHAHAAH..erhem..ha..

dc has generally been much more ridiculous in terms of powering their characters, and the scarlet witch cant do ANYTHING she wants, she still quite weak.

what power uprgrade has storm had that ppl listed her?

when did the spectre go rogue???

The answer to this question is simple, simply ask yourself, in DC, who is more powerful, six Olympian gods, or God himself. Saying Shazam has anychance is like saying someone like pre-crisis superman can take on God.

spectre can easily beat wizard shazam