Silver Surfer vs Adam Warlock

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armandovalles
Silver Surfer

VS

Adam Warlock

Who wins?

Laminator_X
The Surfer is more powerful, but Adam would win.

armandovalles
why would adam win if surfer is more powerful?

Cosmic Cube
Adam Warlock has the Infinity Soul Gem. He can simply absorb Surfer's Soul.

armandovalles
oh yea

armandovalles
but what if adam doesnt have his gem, then who wins?

Cosmic Cube
Probably Surfer.

Laminator_X
Adam beats people more powerful than he is all the time. Why couldn't nebula see him in Infinity Gauntlet? He has a sort of deep subtlety to him has (when not crippled by his mental problems) allowed him to play above his head again and again.

RoyMC
Adam's good!

Linkalicious
Without the gem? Surfer.

With the gem? Warlock.

Adam knows Silver Surfer is too much for him without his power gem.

LordFear
Please Warlock with or without the stinking gem
Thanos whips SS into shape nine out of ten times.
Warlock and Thanos fight to a standstill on every encounter.
During the Infiinity Wars Thanos didn't go to SS for help against the Magus, he went for Warlock. That should tell you right there what the deal is.

leonidas
i'm stunned everyone is saying AW. there is no way - even with the gem - he beats SS. his blasts didn't even bother hercules when they battled, and herc was whooping the tar out of AW. no chance he could wound SS. when thanos and SS attacked odin, AW had to back a km away just to stay out of reach of the peripheral damage the fight might cause. i think, honestly, that i have every appearance of AW up til about 2003. i love him, he's one of my faves, but he would not beat SS unless he had a lot of prep time. even then . . . goodness, there are certain characters who get a lot of luv in this forum . . . .

Linkalicious
Originally posted by LordFear
Please Warlock with or without the stinking gem
Thanos whips SS into shape nine out of ten times.
Warlock and Thanos fight to a standstill on every encounter.
During the Infiinity Wars Thanos didn't go to SS for help against the Magus, he went for Warlock. That should tell you right there what the deal is.

When have the two fought? More importantly...when have the two fought while Warlock hasn't had the Soul Gem?

Thanos went to Warlock for help against Magus because Magus is Warlock's bad side. He was responsible for creating Magus and he was the one who knew how to beat him.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by Linkalicious
When have the two fought? More importantly...when have the two fought while Warlock hasn't had the Soul Gem?

Thanos went to Warlock for help against Magus because Magus is Warlock's bad side. He was responsible for creating Magus and he was the one who knew how to beat him.

Why do I always agree totally with everything Linkalicious says confused smile

Sentry
Originally posted by Linkalicious
When have the two fought? More importantly...when have the two fought while Warlock hasn't had the Soul Gem?

Thanos went to Warlock for help against Magus because Magus is Warlock's bad side. He was responsible for creating Magus and he was the one who knew how to beat him.

Yup I agree here. Magus was a tough sob. Even freaked Thanos out a little.

LordFear
Are you asking me when Thanos and SS have fought???
Or when Warlock and Thanos have fought?
Both occurences have happen buddy. Please don't sit here and tell me otherwise or I have to pull out issues numbers cuz this is getting pretty old. C'mon man are you kidding me???
Thanos didn't simply go to him because of that fact. He knew that Magus being the dark version of Warlock is a seperate entity, Warlock wouldn't have insight on him because Adam was without good nor evil. My point is Thanos went to him because of his power and him being part guardian of the gems. It wasn't for insight alone buddy, it was for extra help.
When Thanos discovered the Magus's base of operation, he realized the level of foe he would be up against and later discovering it to be the Magus needed Adam's assistance for extra muscle and to devise his plan B to fool Magus. It wasn't on intel at all buddy cuz Warlock had none to give him.

radioboy121
Considering Silver Surfer's past association with him, Thanos wouldn't have gone to him for this form of assistance anyway. Adam Warlock was the one who read out Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet as one who subconscious felt himself unworthy of such power and it was he who chose to spare him after the whole dilemma ended after Adam's party visited him in the near future. They have a greater connection and understanding with each other, but that doesn't make Adam Warlock powerful enough to easily take on Silver Surfer. I'd give the edge to Silver Surfer on sheer power alone (without the soul gem, Adam Warlock could have easily been brought down by just sheer physical force by a number of his foes).

LordFear
You forget that without his soul gem he was a force to be reconned. He would still have fought SS to almost victory. Adam is like the "First Man"
Supposedly genetically engineered to be perfection in every facet of life. Adam was fighting Mephisto and besting him b4 he became guardian of the gems and such. Therefore to say SS would defeat him without the gem is somewhat presumptious. Mephisto in his real is virtually unmatched.
And furthermore to add to my previous post above, Thanos and Warlock were so clueless as to what the Magus was up to that they went to Death's realm to seek out info from the Well of Eternity.

Linkalicious
Originally posted by LordFear
Are you asking me when Thanos and SS have fought???
Or when Warlock and Thanos have fought?
Both occurences have happen buddy. Please don't sit here and tell me otherwise or I have to pull out issues numbers cuz this is getting pretty old. C'mon man are you kidding me???
Thanos didn't simply go to him because of that fact. He knew that Magus being the dark version of Warlock is a seperate entity, Warlock wouldn't have insight on him because Adam was without good nor evil. My point is Thanos went to him because of his power and him being part guardian of the gems. It wasn't for insight alone buddy, it was for extra help.
When Thanos discovered the Magus's base of operation, he realized the level of foe he would be up against and later discovering it to be the Magus needed Adam's assistance for extra muscle and to devise his plan B to fool Magus. It wasn't on intel at all buddy cuz Warlock had none to give him.

I have numerous comics of Thanos and SS fighting. I MIGHT have a comic with Thanos and Warlock fighting, but odds are....he wasn't fighting Thanos 1 vs. 1.

I'm not kidding you. I have the Infinity Watch, Crusade, and Guantlet series...and FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER...the two haven't fought. I'm sure they've fought before, but I highly doubt Warlock fought him to a standstill.

And what muscle did Warlock provide to Thanos?

LordFear
Link for gods' sake man???
Are you joking buddy???
What help did he provide???
He was instrumental along with the entire Watch in the Thanos's plan.
The plan was that Thanos secretly knew what Magus was up to and needed Adam's participation to play along and back him up. When Magus took Warlock captive, Thanos said that they were screwed because without him, it's practically impossible to stop Magus and that he would have to do it alone even though the chances are nil. Cap then got on his high horses and said No, everybody is going because they didn't trust Thanos.
Second if Adam hadn't played along and pretended to reunite the gems to vanquish Magus, Thanos's plan would have washed up.

Linkalicious
So again...what MUSCLE did he provide?

Surfer would be a much more valuable asset in terms of "muscle" or strength, or power....


Warlock was essential because of WHO he was...not what he was capable of.

LordFear
His powers were needed.
He got captured period.
And where was SS anyway?
If SS was such a powerhouse, where the hell was he and what part did he play which would give you the idea that SS could best Warlock?

Linkalicious
How the hell am I supposed to keep up with YOUR arguement if you keep jumping around?

First you tell me that Thanos chose Warlock because he was the bigger powerhouse. Then you just discredited yourself by saying "He got captured period" which doesn't support your theory of Warlock being stronger than Silver Surfer in any way shape or form.

What makes me think Surfer could best Warlock?

Silver Surfer has the power cosmic. He can blow up planets. Silver Surfer has taken much much more abuse than Warlock....and NEVER DIED. Warlock died and had to be reincarnated.

Aside from that...when I made my post I had 2 people agree with me right off the bat. I don't see anyone supporting the idea that Warlock would beat Surfer WITHOUT THE GEM.

radioboy121
Magus is associated with Adam Warlock. He would probably get involved even without the sudden appearance of Thanos asking for his aid. Not every powerhouse gets involved in a series. In each comic line there tends to be an ongoing worldwide or universal threat and only that particular group(s) gets involved. Realistically, you would figure everyone would have a concern, but it just doesn't work that way. Otherwise, there would be just one comic called Marvel or DC. How did he defeat Mephisto? It must be more wit than of brute strength.

Nataku8188
Lordfear, stop avoiding the counterarguments.

1) Provide us an issue where AW has fought THANOS to a standstill. You won't, because it didn't happen.

2) Provide us an issue where AW has fought SS to a standstill.

3) Stop being an ass, that's my job.

LordFear
I ain't jumping around.
Because he got captured means what???
You mean to tell me that Magus if he wanted to couldn't take SS down???
C'mon man you're being ridiculous. Read your comix again if you don't understand who or what the Magus is about.

Again Link because the guy got killed and reicarnated so he can't beat SS right??? Come off it dude, please!!!
If Magus is a mirror image of Warlock, what makes you think that the real deal can't whip SS's ass? The only reason you will never see Warlock's true powers are because Warlock has tremendous discipline and self control. WHat makes SS tick would never make Adam flinch. Therefore there is no reason for him to go all out. Why can't Warlock perform the same feats? You can't say that because as a character that's not what he does. It's like questioning THE WATCHER's power. They are infinetly powerful rivaling even Galactus, but you just have to know that you will probably never see them do awesome things because it's not part of their character.

No one can defeat Mephisto with brute strength. C'mon man don't insult me like that. I am more knowledgeable than that.
He bested him being that he was in his realm., he was able to not be influenced by his powers on a soul/spiritual level.

Linkalicious
Originally posted by LordFear
I ain't jumping around.
Because he got captured means what???
You mean to tell me that Magus if he wanted to couldn't take SS down???
C'mon man you're being ridiculous. Read your comix again if you don't understand who or what the Magus is about.

Again Link because the guy got killed and reicarnated so he can't beat SS right??? Come off it dude, please!!!
If Magus is a mirror image of Warlock, what makes you think that the real deal can't whip SS's ass? The only reason you will never see Warlock's true powers are because Warlock has tremendous discipline and self control. WHat makes SS tick would never make Adam flinch. Therefore there is no reason for him to go all out. Why can't Warlock perform the same feats? You can't say that because as a character that's not what he does. It's like questioning THE WATCHER's power. They are infinetly powerful rivaling even Galactus, but you just have to know that you will probably never see them do awesome things because it's not part of their character.

No one can defeat Mephisto with brute strength. C'mon man don't insult me like that. I am more knowledgeable than that.
He bested him being that he was in his realm., he was able to not be influenced by his powers on a soul/spiritual level.

No I don't mean to tell you that Silver Surfer could beat the Magus and honestly I don't see how you could even get that out of the arguement I put forth.

Anyone. Be it Thanos, Warlock, or Silver Surfer could NOT take Magus. THAT is why they had to have a plan in the first place. The battle with Magus was about wits...not about strength.

You need to come off it and read my entire sentence. I said that Silver Surfer has taken worst beatings that Adam Warlock and still survived. Do the simple math....Silver Surfer is more durable than Warlock. A shot that could kill Warlock, in all probability, would not kill Silver Surfer.

Magus is not a mirror image of Adam Warlock, if he was a mirror image then the two would have fought eachother one on one without the aid of the Infinity Watch. If Magus was Adam Warlock's mirror image then Warlock would have fought and stalemated Magus instead of being imprisoned.

Why can't Warlock perform the same feats? Because he doesn't have the power cosmic period.

Don't compare Uatu to Galactcus...you're making yourself look foolish now.

Nataku8188
Originally posted by Nataku8188
Lordfear, stop avoiding the counterarguments.

1) Provide us an issue where AW has fought THANOS to a standstill. You won't, because it didn't happen.

2) Provide us an issue where AW has fought SS to a standstill.

3) Stop being an ass, that's my job.

LordFear
I never said to you that he fought SS to a standstill. NEVER!!!
rEAD the thread again if need be before jumping on the bandwagon, ok??

Second. I need to give you issue to were Warlock and Thanos have fought? Are you kidding me? I am not gonna waste my time doing that.
You believe whatever the hell you want,. I know what I read when I was like ten years old. I am not gonnna spend time just to prove a point like this. Those two have had too much history and encounters for you to even question it but whatever!!!
Third think whatever you want this is a free country.
People plz just stop jumping on the SS, Spiderman fanboy wave that seems to have enchanted this forum ever since I have been a member.

Linkalicious
If you aren't going to "waste your time" finding a comic to reference your claim...then your claim isn't valid.

Props for being the one to stick up for Adam Warlock on this...but apparently it's pretty common knowledge that SS > AW.

Nataku8188
Originally posted by LordFear
I never said to you that he fought SS to a standstill. NEVER!!!
rEAD the thread again if need be before jumping on the bandwagon, ok??

Second. I need to give you issue to were Warlock and Thanos have fought? Are you kidding me? I am not gonna waste my time doing that.
You believe whatever the hell you want,. I know what I read when I was like ten years old. I am not gonnna spend time just to prove a point like this. Those two have had too much history and encounters for you to even question it but whatever!!!
Third think whatever you want this is a free country.
People plz just stop jumping on the SS, Spiderman fanboy wave that seems to have enchanted this forum ever since I have been a member.

I hate spider-man and SS, but they are both extremely skilled and powerful characters.

radioboy121
Originally posted by LordFear
No one can defeat Mephisto with brute strength. C'mon man don't insult me like that. I am more knowledgeable than that.
He bested him being that he was in his realm., he was able to not be influenced by his powers on a soul/spiritual level.

If based on that regard to classify Adam Warlock winning over Mephisto, Daredevil has done the same thing.

Also, there is no need to get hostile and starting to call people who disagree with you fanboys.

LordFear
Ok people.
that's it, well thanx for a good debate anyway.
I can't beleive you guys are gonna stick to issue # when Thanos and Warlock have been doing their little dance since God knows how long.

Linkalicious
Because they've never danced the tango.

Everytime they meet....a whole club full of people are there to watch Warlock's back.

radioboy121
Thanos once killed him, but other than that, I've never seen them fight that was classified as anything close to a stalemate.

leonidas
<<Intelligence: Above Normal
Strength: Superhuman Class 10, Superhuman Class 50 when enhanced by cosmic energy
Speed: SuperHuman
Endurance: Enhanced Human
Durability: Metahuman
Agility: Enhanced Human
Reflexes: Enhanced Human
Fighting skills: Adam Warlock's fighting skills were not taught to him. He developed them on his own while fighting enemies. He has developed fighting skills to rival the best Martial Artist
Special Skills and Abilities: Vast Knowledge of Strategy, and the Occult. Adam Warlock has the ability to fly. He is outside the realm of Chaos and Order so therefor he knows the Universe as no other mortal. he has demonstrated superhuman physical powers with his new abilities to see a person's aura and touch / go into their soul.
Superhuman Physical Powers: Besides the above listed attributes, Adam Warlock has none.
Superhuman Mental Powers: Adam Warlock has demonstrated no psionic abilities. But he seems to have a defense to psionic attacks. And has a firm grasp on reality
Special Limitations: Getting too insane can turn him into the Magus
Source of Superhuman Powers: Adam Warlock's power were gained by the means of his birth. The scientists endowed him with powers so that he could be the perfect human. He also gains extra power from his Soul Gem.

Paraphernalia

Personal Weaponry: Soul Gem, and his Cane or Staff which he sometimes uses to project his spiritual energy. With the Soul Gem Warlock can steal souls, and also use a Karmic Blast to knock his opponent out>>

leonidas
how would he beat SS again? his karmic blasts are no where near strong enough. his soul gem has been resisted in the past. aside for possibly the soul gem (which i believe SS could withstand) SS CLEARLY outclasses AW in every conceiveable way. no way AW takes out SS.

sometimes i think SS gets a bit too much luv here as well, but he is more powerful than AW.

Laminator_X
I don't have an issue number for you, but at the end of the second "Thanos Against Everybody War," Thanos was near victory, and Warlock had taken his own life to prevent his transformation into the Magus. When all seemed lost, Spider-Man picked up the Soul-Gem and released Warlock's spirit. Seething with cosmic energy, Adam turned Thanos to stone. Apart from Mar-Vell's visions from his deathbed, this was the last we saw of Thanos until Death ressurected him to kill half of all life in the (many years later) Silver Surfer arc that led directly into the Infinity Gauntlet.

The '70s Magus that-might-have-been was more physically powerful than the Magus that incarnated in Infinity War, having spent millenia coccoonned in the In-Betweener's realm. The more modern Magus is "just" Adam's evil twin.

In terms of raw might, the Surfer should win. With Adam however, it seldom comes down to raw might.

Laminator_X
Ah here we are, it was Marvel Two in One Annual #2. And to be clear, before Adam-from-the-Magus-War appeared and stole Then-Current-Adam's soul to forstall the Magus, Thanos had lain a pretty good smackdown on Adam.

the Darkone
Adam warlock is a walking soul gem over the years he had absorb so much of the gem powers he really doesn't even use it. Adam warlock & SS are about the same as cosmic power level but adam warlock mental powers are superior and he is a better fighter than SS. Adam Warlock wins hands down.

Gamma Crush!
Originally posted by Linkalicious
Without the gem? Surfer.

With the gem? Warlock.

Adam knows Silver Surfer is too much for him without his power gem.

It's the Soul Gem, not the Power Gem. Drax has the Power Gem.

leonidas
for all this AW will win talk, i've yet to hear one AW person give an explanation as to how exactly AW would take him down. karmic blast? in the infinity watch they didn't bother hercules. i say again, herc was whooping him. check it out if you have the issue. suck SS soul? the soul gem has been resisted in the past by powerful enough foes (ie count abyss) and SS's soul is one of the brightest, noblest in the MU - as quoted by mephisto. not to mention the fact i doubt highly whether AW would even resort to trying such a desperate act. and no one can think he would take SS down by fighting him hand to hand. SS's strength could be expanded well beyond AW's. he has no psionic abilities (see his bio). SS's abilities are described as beyond comprehension. AW is superhuman and 'meta' human - below superhuman. so . . . please give me a believeable scenario where AW takes him down.

Gamma Crush!
It all depends. If Surfer is caught off-guard, like he was when a Kree soldier used the Infinity Soul Gem on him, he's pretty much screwed.

Nataku8188
Originally posted by Gamma Crush!
It all depends. If Surfer is caught off-guard, like he was when a Kree soldier used the Infinity Soul Gem on him, he's pretty much screwed.

This isn't AW ambushes SS, it's two dudes are told they kill eachother. He look, watch 'em go!

When surfer goes all out, shit gets ****ED UP.

leonidas
<<When surfer goes all out, shit gets ****ED UP.>>

thank you nataku. 'bout time someone shed some reason on this discussion.

Gamma Crush!
I know Surfer is extremely powerful. However, absorbing his soul into the Infinity Soul Gem is a viable tactic for Adam.

Nataku8188
Originally posted by Gamma Crush!
I know Surfer is extremely powerful. However, absorbing his soul into the Infinity Soul Gem is a viable tactic for Adam.

Not considering;
A) How difficult it is for AW to absorb souls as powerful as SS
B) How much he resents using it, because it threatens his own soul

np3228
You guys are crackin up on me... silver surfer is a power house! Adam's powers.. he doesnt have many powers... he got slammed by Maxam! Towards teh end of Infinity Waatch series... cuz Maxam was too strong! Uhm.. dnt you guys think Silver Surfer might be too physically strong too... ?!?!?

np3228
But yeah.. AW could win by absorbing his soul... last time I checked SS's soul is very weak because Galactus tampered with it... but that's a special victory, fair fight: SS.. no doubt!

rotiart
Galactus tampered with Surfers soul probably because he had access to it and manipulated it before... He's left traces of himself in surfer... So I'm fairly certain that leaves some kind of back door to big g

Kris Blaze
Adam can even command Surfer's board.

kgkg
Classic Warlock would be a good fight.

Current Warlock gets killed. :/

Tenebrous
Originally posted by rotiart
Galactus tampered with Surfers soul probably because he had access to it and manipulated it before... He's left traces of himself in surfer... So I'm fairly certain that leaves some kind of back door to big g

not sure what you're getting at in terms of "back door to big g" but Galactus is immune to the soul gem.

Originally posted by kgkg
Classic Warlock would be a good fight.

Current Warlock gets killed. :/

technically, current warlock is the Magus.

Biel_Wunde
Originally posted by Linkalicious
I have numerous comics of Thanos and SS fighting. I MIGHT have a comic with Thanos and Warlock fighting, but odds are....he wasn't fighting Thanos 1 vs. 1.

I'm not kidding you. I have the Infinity Watch, Crusade, and Guantlet series...and FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER...the two haven't fought. I'm sure they've fought before, but I highly doubt Warlock fought him to a standstill.

And what muscle did Warlock provide to Thanos?

Pre-Annihilation Adam Warlock was the greatest stratigic mind in Marvel. Warlock has beaten Thanos ever-time they encountered (Marvel 2-in-1 Annual #2, the whole Infinity series), not because he out-powered him, but because he out-manuvored him. Hell Warlock even gave him the Reality Gem to protect as part the Infinity Watch. You think Warlock would do that if he didn't think he could bring Thanos down?!?

If you go back and read Annihilation when moon-dragon find Warlock, and awakens him, it's too early. He wasn't fully recovered. His powers were off and his mind wasn't healed. This was Marvels way or nerfing him so he would fit on the Guardians of the Galaxy. Without that nerf, he's running that team inside two hours.

Adam Warlock (at full power) is the most dangerous person in the Marvel universe. Not Thanos. Also if you want to talk strength, Warlock, without the Soul Gem, inside Soul World, pwned Drax one on one (SS #47). It has been eluded to multiple times that Warlock is just as powerful as the Magus, but holds back so he doesn't go over the edge.

Hell we're talking about a guy who went into the future to kill himself to prevent the Magus from happening (which was recently undone in the GotG... the lost timeline Warlock tied Reality to stop the Cancerverse)... read that again, the guy tied two realities together, by himself without the soul-gem... Yeah he Pwn's the Surfer hands down!

Digi
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
Pre-Annihilation Adam Warlock was the greatest stratigic mind in Marvel. Warlock has beaten Thanos ever-time they encountered (Marvel 2-in-1 Annual #2, the whole Infinity series), not because he out-powered him, but because he out-manuvored him. Hell Warlock even gave him the Reality Gem to protect as part the Infinity Watch. You think Warlock would do that if he didn't think he could bring Thanos down?!?

If you go back and read Annihilation when moon-dragon find Warlock, and awakens him, it's too early. He wasn't fully recovered. His powers were off and his mind wasn't healed. This was Marvels way or nerfing him so he would fit on the Guardians of the Galaxy. Without that nerf, he's running that team inside two hours.

Adam Warlock (at full power) is the most dangerous person in the Marvel universe. Not Thanos. Also if you want to talk strength, Warlock, without the Soul Gem, inside Soul World, pwned Drax one on one (SS #47). It has been eluded to multiple times that Warlock is just as powerful as the Magus, but holds back so he doesn't go over the edge.

Hell we're talking about a guy who went into the future to kill himself to prevent the Magus from happening (which was recently undone in the GotG... the lost timeline Warlock tied Reality to stop the Cancerverse)... read that again, the guy tied two realities together, by himself without the soul-gem... Yeah he Pwn's the Surfer hands down!

All true except for the last line. Dangerous and "immediately powerful" are not one and the same, and Surfer's feats trump Warlock's consistently. Many of Warlock's triumphs were because of planning, not power, which is much less useful in a "Ready? Go!" fight scenario.

It's also worth mentioning that the only time Warlock was shown as definitively more powerful than Surfer was inside Soul World, where Warlock was essentially God. And it was made clear that the setting dictated the result, not their inherent power levels.

You're also pulling feats from multiple versions of Warlock, and forming them into a whole, which paints a false picture of the battle. When this was created, it was about classic Warlock, so that's probably what should be used.

It's not an easy fight, nor quick, but it has a clear victor: Surfer.

Also, helluva bump.

Biel_Wunde
Originally posted by Digi
All true except for the last line. Dangerous and "immediately powerful" are not one and the same, and Surfer's feats trump Warlock's consistently. Many of Warlock's triumphs were because of planning, not power, which is much less useful in a "Ready? Go!" fight scenario.

It's also worth mentioning that the only time Warlock was shown as definitively more powerful than Surfer was inside Soul World, where Warlock was essentially God. And it was made clear that the setting dictated the result, not their inherent power levels.

You're also pulling feats from multiple versions of Warlock, and forming them into a whole, which paints a false picture of the battle. When this was created, it was about classic Warlock, so that's probably what should be used.

It's not an easy fight, nor quick, but it has a clear victor: Surfer.

Also, helluva bump.

I look at it this way... Warlock is the cosmic Batman of the Marvel Universe. Batman will drop Superman, not because he's stronger, but because he's better. Warlock is just better than everyone. smile

Side note: It wont let me post links yet but if you check out DC's Brave and the Bold #118 Batman vs. Adam Warlock cross-over... yeah

abhilegend
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SilverSurferWarlock0417.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/th_SilverSurferWarlock0418.jpg

shifty

Digi
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
I look at it this way... Warlock is the cosmic Batman of the Marvel Universe. Batman will drop Superman, not because he's stronger, but because he's better. Warlock is just better than everyone. smile

Side note: It wont let me post links yet but if you check out DC's Brave and the Bold #118 Batman vs. Adam Warlock cross-over... yeah

...which would be a good analogy. Except if Superman's fighting smart, even some kryptonite and a plan won't stop Batman from getting thrown into space or vaporized. In forums battles, you have to step back from the a priori style arguments that certain characters seem to lend themselves to, and actually analyze their respective power showings. Warlock is not as powerful as Surfer, in any incarnation (though some have been very close). He's wins by scheming and manipulating, albeit for good causes. But in the vaccuum that is forum fights, he doesn't have the luxury of a plan to fall back on. He has his battle cunning and powers. Which are formidable, and able to hold their own with Surfer, maybe even steal some wins, but not beat him consistently.

This is coming from a big Warlock fan who's also knowledgeable about both. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it means this is without bias.

Biel_Wunde
Originally posted by Digi
...which would be a good analogy. Except if Superman's fighting smart, even some kryptonite and a plan won't stop Batman from getting thrown into space or vaporized. In forums battles, you have to step back from the a priori style arguments that certain characters seem to lend themselves to, and actually analyze their respective power showings. Warlock is not as powerful as Surfer, in any incarnation (though some have been very close). He's wins by scheming and manipulating, albeit for good causes. But in the vaccuum that is forum fights, he doesn't have the luxury of a plan to fall back on. He has his battle cunning and powers. Which are formidable, and able to hold their own with Surfer, maybe even steal some wins, but not beat him consistently.

This is coming from a big Warlock fan who's also knowledgeable about both. It doesn't mean I'm right, but it means this is without bias.

By that rational, then I would defer to Marvel's official powers guide... found on their website. It ranks the abilities of all characters in six catagories from 1(lowest) to 7(highest)

Warlock
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 6
Speed - 6
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 6

Surfer
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 6
Speed - 7
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 5

By this standard, Warlock is smarter and a better fighter, while the Surfer's only advantage is speed; everything else is even.

If the argument becomes speed vs. intelligence and fighting ability. I would still take Warlock's intellect and fighting ability over the Surfer's speed.

Digi
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
By that rational, then I would defer to Marvel's official powers guide... found on their website. It ranks the abilities of all characters in six catagories from 1(lowest) to 7(highest)

Warlock
Intelligence - 5
Strength - 6
Speed - 6
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 6

Surfer
Intelligence - 4
Strength - 6
Speed - 7
Durability -7
Energy projection - 7
Fight - 5

By this standard, Warlock is smarter and a better fighter, while the Surfer's only advantage is speed; everything else is even.

If the argument becomes speed vs. intelligence and fighting ability. I would still take Warlock's intellect and fighting ability over the Surfer's speed.

If you're using a Marvel power guide, we're having different conversations. Those are all outdated, often flatly erroneous, often fan-voted or publicly editable, ignored by writers, and not consistent with actual comics. For the most part, we debate based on actual in-comic showings, not numbers on a website.

So, for example, if a handbook states that a character is Class 60 strength, but he lifts a skyscraper, the site or handbook is wrong. This happens literally all the time, and is a common example. It also doesn't allow for variances within classes. By most standards, Superman and Martian Manhunter both have "incalculable" strength, but we know quite obviously which is stronger. Ratings don't allow for such nuance.

I'd also point out that, even if you're right about everything here, intellect is essentially worthless in a default forum match (which, if you're new, it would do you well to read through the forum rules to familiarize yourself with them). Surfer's feats > Warlock's, this from a Warlock fan who knows all of his showings. If you're arguing on a different basis, we're just having an incompatible conversation.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Biel_Wunde
Pre-Annihilation Adam Warlock was the greatest stratigic mind in Marvel. Warlock has beaten Thanos ever-time they encountered (Marvel 2-in-1 Annual #2, the whole Infinity series), not because he out-powered him, but because he out-manuvored him. Hell Warlock even gave him the Reality Gem to protect as part the Infinity Watch. You think Warlock would do that if he didn't think he could bring Thanos down?!?

If you go back and read Annihilation when moon-dragon find Warlock, and awakens him, it's too early. He wasn't fully recovered. His powers were off and his mind wasn't healed. This was Marvels way or nerfing him so he would fit on the Guardians of the Galaxy. Without that nerf, he's running that team inside two hours.

Adam Warlock (at full power) is the most dangerous person in the Marvel universe. Not Thanos. Also if you want to talk strength, Warlock, without the Soul Gem, inside Soul World, pwned Drax one on one (SS #47). It has been eluded to multiple times that Warlock is just as powerful as the Magus, but holds back so he doesn't go over the edge.

Hell we're talking about a guy who went into the future to kill himself to prevent the Magus from happening (which was recently undone in the GotG... the lost timeline Warlock tied Reality to stop the Cancerverse)... read that again, the guy tied two realities together, by himself without the soul-gem... Yeah he Pwn's the Surfer hands down! The first part is flat out wrong,period.

Bouboumaster
Surfer ftw

leonidas
lol

looking back at those early posts, it would seem i was incorrect. warlock, in his confrontations with norrin, almost always seemed to have the upper hand despite what i still think is a disparity in powers. aw is just one of those characters who sort of did things just because he was cool enough to pull them off, and he def seemed to have ss's number for whatever reason. after seeing their interactions (something i had NOT seen when i first posted) i'd change my vote and go with warlock here.

Nietzschean
Originally posted by leonidas
for all this AW will win talk, i've yet to hear one AW person give an explanation as to how exactly AW would take him down. karmic blast? in the infinity watch they didn't bother hercules. i say again, herc was whooping him. check it out if you have the issue. suck SS soul? the soul gem has been resisted in the past by powerful enough foes (ie count abyss) and SS's soul is one of the brightest, noblest in the MU - as quoted by mephisto. not to mention the fact i doubt highly whether AW would even resort to trying such a desperate act. and no one can think he would take SS down by fighting him hand to hand. SS's strength could be expanded well beyond AW's. he has no psionic abilities (see his bio). SS's abilities are described as beyond comprehension. AW is superhuman and 'meta' human - below superhuman. so . . . please give me a believeable scenario where AW takes him down. I cant believe I have to find your post from almost a decade ago to correct you once more but Hercules never took a Karmic Blast. He dodged it.

The energy Adam hit Herc with was from his staff and it was yellow. The Karmic blast from his soul gem is green and he missed Hercules who sidestepped it.

Originally posted by olympian
Here is more:


Hercules goes against Warlock, after the infinity Watch goes down. One of the two loses ever in the rep of Warlock. (Herk seems in mad rage).

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8771/madherk6wh.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9459/madherk14ge.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4881/madherk20rk.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5904/madherk39pd.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4315/madherk49sg.jpg

Thats it for now. Ill see if i can arrange more.

leonidas
Originally posted by Nietzschean
I cant believe I have to find your post from almost a decade ago to correct you once more but Hercules never took a Karmic Blast. He dodged it.

The energy Adam hit Herc with was from his staff and it was yellow. The Karmic blast from his soul gem is green and he missed Hercules who sidestepped it.

lol

implying that somehow, somewhere in the intervening time you've 'corrected' me?

in any event, you appear to be right in this case. thumb up

OneDumbG0
^ Get mad, leonidas! excellent

Hulkbuster1
Adam worlock uses his gem and steals his tasty soul and takes sadistic pleasure in tormenting his soul forever.

leonidas
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Get mad, leonidas! excellent

i've missed you.....

Nietzschean
Originally posted by leonidas
lol

implying that somehow, somewhere in the intervening time you've 'corrected' me?

in any event, you appear to be right in this case. thumb up This is actually the third time I have posted the scans and directed them toward you. It was just on a different account a year or two ago. I understand if you don't remember. wink

leonidas
Originally posted by Nietzschean
This is actually the third time I have posted the scans and directed them toward you. It was just on a different account a year or two ago. I understand if you don't remember. wink

ah. could be. don't recall someone catching that and i haven't brought that fight up in a long time. anyway, i stand corrected. wink

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by leonidas
i've missed you..... ... kill yourself. crackers

leonidas
^ translation: i missed you too....

Horrificus
AW is Yellowish-Orange. The same color of many types of "cheese". This is a very telling detail, due to the fact that he is a "cheesie" character.

It is also the same color as Homer Simpson.

So, he has gone into the future to murder himself. Haven't we ALL done that at one time or another?!

And, for the record, his Karmic Blast is extremely SLOOOOOOOWWW. It is a FACT that the blast basically oozes out of that sissy gem.

I rest my case.

Norin ftw.

Endless Mike
If he has the Soul Gem I think Adam takes it

Horrificus
I think the Surfer has overcome soul gem attacks. From Thanos and the Supreme Intelligence. Has found his way out of Soul World and has taken possession of the gem, from the Supreme Intelligence.

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