Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I was thinking the other day that since laser and beam weapons fire at light speed more(tachyon beam) or less(electro-beam) and a jedi can block any beam. How would a jedi do against the flash. I wanted to use Mace Windu or Yoda, because those two or arguably the best swordsmen in star wars universe, but Darth Vader has the most power. And flash is super powerful now. I have no preference and I will choose after seeing what you all have to say.

The setting: The JLA watch tower.

stipulation: last man standing wins.

I'm not sure, but I think Flash moves faster than a man or machine can react.

Yeah the thing about that is all the Jedi see into the future, some or better than others. Mace Windu and Anakin/Darth Vader or particularly good at it. So, they see what's coming before it comes no matter how fast its coming and no one knows how fast there force speed is. But according to revenge of the sith when Mace Windu was fighting the Emperor/Sith Lord they were moving so fast anakin could not see them with his naked eyes, but he could feel them in the force. Kinda like on Dragonball Z.

Flash is faster then their precog.

Even if Vader uses the Force The Flash will be faster and cunning. By the time Vader pulls out his lightsaber Flash speed would be enough to knock Vader out. Flash wins!

The blaster fire in SW is actually extremely slow, slower then a bullet even. You can see the blaster fire on the screen and R2 and C3PO stumbling through the fire at the same time so you know its no where near the speed of sound let alone light speed.

Okay, the blaster fire is slow so we can see the action. But I am sure when flash has a movie, he want be moving so fast no one can see what going on. Logic here please. Explain your answer. Support your argument. Don't give he wins just because he will win kinda answers. They use lasers and blasters in star wars when fired they move at light speed. And by definition nothing is faster than precog thought. Are you referring to reaction time?

Flash

"Flash I am ...your father...join me....join the dark side.

A Jedi can see a fraction of a second into the future - that's how they know where a blaster beam is going to land and they can block it.

However - that is only one shot.

If a hundred blaster shots came at them from point blank range from every single direction at what might as well be the exact same time... how well would they fare then?

Cos that's what a flurry of punches from the Flash would be like.

No time to react, no time to block. It doesn't matter whether you saw the first punch coming - you can't move fast enough to stop the ten, twenty, fifty, one hundred that appear the splitsecond later....

Well actually some of your answers make sense, but if the force could be used like telekinesis. Couldn't vader simply seize him. Force choke him. etc Also with the force, vader has an unfair advantage. He know what's going to happen before it happens. And don't use that moving faster than thought argument. It does not apply to precog. All humans have precog potential thru dream, God or what have you. if you dreamed that the flash was going to be in an enclosed area. You would know how to kill him and he would have any idea what was going on unless you were one of those villians who blab about you big plan before you do it.

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
All humans have precog potential thru dream, God or what have you.
??

Thanks Zephro that's very logical. But that's the average jedi. It doesn't apply to darth, mace,dooku, or yoda. yoda is the only gentle one I listed. Mace, Darth and Dooku first strike would be deadly and yeah they can block a hundred blast. Darth can do it with the force, and Mace can do it with his sword. I am just guessing about dooku and yoda. But I see what you are saying force sight works well on an individual, but not so well on a group so your blaster idea is on point. But I am not sure if it will give flash much of an edge.

who?-kid. you have never had a dream about a future event? Just kidding. Sometimes God sends people visions. That is what I mean by that.

Flash wins.

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
who?-kid. you have never had a dream about a future event? Just kidding. Sometimes God sends people visions. That is what I mean by that.

You mean something like deja vu?

The thing is, it's not just about knowing that somethings going to happen - it's having the power to react to it as well. I don't believe a Jedi can move at the speed of light.

Vader could just force choke him.

I don't know who used this anology, but it's a good one, so I'm going to re-use it lol.

If you sat Vader in a dark room, then switched the light switch on - would he be able to use force choke before the light reached him?

Which Flash, Wally is pretty weak willed with the right motivation he could be turned. "We have some babes in the dark side".
"Yabba dabba, hubba, hubba where do I sign Darth daddy dearest".
maybe not!!
Seriously Flash wins.

Zephro it depends on how his precog works. I use mace as an example because I know How his works. I really don't know how vader's work at least I haven't read a book on it. See mace has the ability to see critical points in the future of an individual or object. he calls them shatterpoints where the very outcome of the battle hinges on his action at that point. Depends on the situation, sometimes he will see it well before it happens and sometime it will be the just an instant. It works in his favor. It has a weakness though. But anyway if he was in a dark room he would throw his blade before you ever reached the switch. I am pretty sure that Vader would work similiar or better.

I grow tired of defending vader, isn't their a vader fan out there somewhere?

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
A Jedi can see a fraction of a second into the future - that's how they know where a blaster beam is going to land and they can block it.

However - that is only one shot.

If a hundred blaster shots came at them from point blank range from every single direction at what might as well be the exact same time... how well would they fare then?

after they swipe away the first attack with their lightsabers the flash will be crippled or dead

Vader hitting Flash with a lightsabre would be like me hitting a gnat with an eyelash. While riding a motorcycle standing. Blindfolded. And naked in Alaska.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Vader hitting Flash with a lightsabre would be like me hitting a gnat with an eyelash. While riding a motorcycle standing. Blindfolded. And naked in Alaska.

exactly...... he'd have no trouble

pre-cog that is sufficient to block a laser blast is enough to enable him to hit Flash once...... even Deathstroke managed it.... but Vader wouldn't just try to keep him down like Slade did.... he'd kill him

but that's beside the point, a powerful Jedi/Sith wouldn't even need to get physical with the Flash.... just use mind control and force TK

From what I heard of that, Deathstroke set off a specific steries of bombs to trap Flash and get the hit.

Jedi/sith block laser fire because they have time before the laser is fired to move into position.

If they are at rest and a laser is fired, are they fast enough to block it between the time it "leaves the barrel" and the time it hits?

it never gets to that point..... they always know about the blast before it leaves the barrel..... like they would know about flash's attack route before he began running

All they will see is he dodges everything. If he sees that Flash is going to hit him and weaves left, Flash is fast enough to take another step, depants Vader, pull his cape off, then wap Vader in the helmet.

Vader could easily use the force to hold Flash in the air without moving then when flash was unable to move he could forc echoke him until he dies OR just get his lightsaber and off goes Flash's head.

Finally, someone else is defending vader. So I am right to think that this match could go either way. And thanks all you guys who actually understand what it means to be a precog. But please don't stop on my account. I am actually learning.

Flash. There's a difference between precog, and actually reacting. And I know Vader is mad good, but still.

In the TIME that it takes, even if it is just a nano-second, the TIME that it takes for Vader to perform and force manuever, the Flash could have already killed him 10 times.

Don't ge wrong. I've love the Jedis and the things they can do. But they just couldn't stand up against a guy who can move, and react, FASTER than the speed of light. They just really don't have the ability to handle that.

Flash wins in . 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000001 of a second.

Okay really, how do you time a jedi's reaction time, how do you time the flash reaction time. Do you know how fast vader can perform the force manuever? You can't compare vader's reaction time to a human's reaction time. And if the flash is moving faster than the speed of light doesn't he become one with the speed force? Anyway if death stroke can take him out, you are going to have a hard time convincing me vader can't.

Tough match...although I think that Vader would win due to Force attacks. Lightsaber vs Flash would go to Flash. Vader has the Force Choke and Lightning abilities, among others, so I think if he lands a choke on the Flash, he's done for. Flash isn't gonna be so quick when he's gasping for air on the ground.

Darth Vader is basically Jean Grey and hourman II with Precog, telekinesis, and mad fighting skills. And everyone who argues for flash doesn't fully understand what a precog means. I would like to argue for flash now. But I just can't see him winning. and no one has come up with a convincing argument except for the fact the flash can do major damage before vader pull his sword. but vader can just lift him with the force let him dangle in mid air and torture him.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
I don't know who used this anology, but it's a good one, so I'm going to re-use it lol.

If you sat Vader in a dark room, then switched the light switch on - would he be able to use force choke before the light reached him?

Haha! I used that once before! Don't know if I was the first, but whateva.

No way could Vader get a force choke on Flash, force choking takes aim, I'm pretty sure. And if all Jedi had such good precog, no one would ever win a lightsaber fight, cuz none of them swing anywhere near light speed. I don't think Vader could use lightning. Vader was not the best jedi ever, he had the second most potential, but never really reached his complete mastery (medichlorion count is not the only part of being a jedi, I'm pretty sure Luke is higher than him too, the Emperor still could whoop his ass before Vader died) I know what precog is and how it works, but weapons don't get there instantly. You can know something is coming and not have the power to do anything about it.

Though I ask you people, where are the people who argued for Wolverine against Vader?

First off, ill say that I love Star Wars to death. I also love Flash to death.

Force choke - Les not forget that Vader was able to choke someone through via satelite. He was no where near the Admiral. They werent even in the same ship.

Ability to see the future - Thats what gives jedi's the ability to deflect lazer shots. Also, Anekin was seeing the future about his mother months before he actually went looking for her. If Vader feels in the force that Flash is going to try and run around him and attack him who's to say that the saber wont be out and gut him just like Deathstroke did? A saber going through him would be far more worse than Slades blade.

When using the force, youre suppose to feel and be aware of all your surroundings (Spoken my the greatest jedi of all time. Yoda) I think even with Flash's speed, unless he actually hits Vader Vader would be aware of all his moves and be a few steps ahead of him. Thats MAYBE.

IF Flash DOES manage to hit Vader, I think the fight is over.

Originally posted by jrodslam
If Vader feels in the force that Flash is going to try and run around him and attack him who's to say that the saber wont be out and gut him just like Deathstroke did?Well, there's the fact that he thinks as fast as he moves. Both are faster than Vader. He would see Vader's attempt at an attack and walk around it. Deathstroke's hit wasn't like they were in an empty room and they dueled. He planned that strike out and tricked Flash into running into his sword. Even though Flash could of vibrated through that.

And if he tries a force maneuver, he could turn Vader into a statue.

Listen, I love Star Wars and everything about it myself. But you just don't seem to understand this reaction speed the Flash supporters keep talking about.

Precog is great. Wonderful even. It allows them to detect something a moment before it happens and react to it (ie: blaster shots). But they must react in time to counter said attack. They're precog does not move their bodies for them. And I know that the time between precog and reacting is small, insnaly small even. Smaller than half of a nanosecond (I'm sure I'm exaggerating).

But what some of you don't realize, is that Flash moves FASTER than the speed of LIGHT. And not only does he move this fast, he thinks this fast or probably even faster. I don't care of Vader knows what is going on around him, being one with his surroundings and all. Flash could be in freakin China and then appear next to Vader before anything happened.

Another thing I failed to mention. Flash's speed has now exceeded INSTANT TRANSMISSION. He moves faster than an instantaneous teleporter. I know it sounds impossible, but it's true. That's just how fast he has gotten over the years.

Even if Vader had a mile radius around him where he was constantly keeping his precog on, it wouldn't matter.

Flash could kill him so many different ways before Vader even realizes that someone is moving towards him, or is near him.

you are right I don't understand this reaction speed of the flash. If it is as instantaneous as you say, why could he had just avoided deathstroke sword? Seriously, I hope you read this and can provide an answer. Vader could have dreamed of the fight months before it even happen and planned accordingly. That's the advantage of a precog. We haven't even discuss all of Vaders Jedi mind tricks. Before they fight he could tell Flash "I am you friend and ally" and soon as flash say "hi it's good seeing you..." vader could have force choked him or worse. By the way, I understand what you are saying that a precog may know it is coming but fail to stop it. But this is vader.

Jedi and Sith fight at extreme speeds, it has to look slow so you can actually see whats going on. So what flash is fast, droids are fast. you all underestimate the power of the dark side.

Yes.

Say Vader's precog detects that Flash is about to punch him.

Thought impulses are sent to various parts of the brain telling him what is going to happen and when. He now pictures it in his mind, then thinks of a way to react, then he sends nerve signals down to his arms to start swinging his light sabre OR raise his hand and get ready to perform a force choke/lightning/wedgey/whatever.

All of this only takes a fraction of a second.

A fraction of a second in which Flash could brew some tea, drink said tea, eat a biscuit, pop down the shops, buy a paper, read said paper, fill out the crossword, laugh at his own comic strip in the paper, read the Star Wars review, see a pic of Darth without his mask, wonder if he really is that butt ugly, take Darth's mask off and see that he IS that ugly, pop to the nearest mall, buy some makeup, give Darth a makeover, put his helmet back on, give Darth a wedgey, tie Darth's bootlaces together, superglue all the furniture in the room to the ceiling and run off to catch a movie...

Darth swings his lightsabre upwards ready to block....

Wonders why he can taste lipstick and blusher, why his arse is on fire, spies an open newspaper and half a steaming cup of tea on the floor where the table used to be and when he's pondering over all of this he trips over, gets hit by a falling chair and killed.

Flash wins.

precisely. Like I said earlier if flash was in a movie he would move slow enough for you to see him. That's why the jedi seem so slow. If you read any of the book you would realize just how fast they are. The Jedi Lords Like mace and yoda or extremely fast. And the same is true of the Sith lord vader and the emporer. I don't know about obi wan. He seems pretty average until you make him mad.

Okay let us establish one thing for now one. The average Jedi is way faster, and reacts faster than any human and most computers. To clarify let us not treat them like they are as slow as say the highlander or something. We can probably safely put them at Dragon ball Z speed. Goku before super saiyin. Can we all agree upon that?

Hmm... they're faster for sure...

But could a Jedi evacuate an entire city full of people and take them to a safe distance several miles away in the split second before a nuclear explosion?

Compared to that kind of speed, a Jedi simply isn't moving...

Evacuating them in ones or twos at a time...

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
you are right I don't understand this reaction speed of the flash. If it is as instantaneous as you say, why could he had just avoided deathstroke sword? Seriously, I hope you read this and can provide an answer.He could of and probably should of vibrated through the sword but from what I gathered, Deathstroke used a series a bombs to trick Flash into running into his sword.

I guess it would kind of be like Pacman when you head in one pathway with a ghost on your tail but realize there's a ghost at the other end too. You're not dead yet but you know you're trapped and there's nothing you can do to stop one of those ghosts from getting you.C'mon man, that's just crazy talk.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
He could of and probably should of vibrated through the sword but from what I gathered, Deathstroke used a series a bombs to trick Flash into running into his sword.

I guess it would kind of be like Pacman when you head in one pathway with a ghost on your tail but realize there's a ghost at the other end too. You're not dead yet but you know you're trapped and there's nothing you can do to stop one of those ghosts from getting you.C'mon man, that's just crazy talk.

By the time Flash realized what happened the swrd was already in his lung.

Im sure we all saw Star Wars Ep.2. Remember when Ani and Obi was chasing the changeling. Obi thought Anekin lost her, but Ani already knew that she was coming and where she was. If that aint seeingthe future, I dont know what is. Im sure we all agree that Jedi's(Yoda, Vader, Emperor), has better precog than Deathstroke.

How is that crazy? if the fight is serious enough which against the flash. It is possible. I don't think it would happen but it is possible. he saw his mother's death before it happen he may be able to see his own. He is a precog. Yeah I read when flash evacuated all those people. I admit that was very fast. I think it was bad writing. Light could not bounce back and forth over that distance that fast. And he was carrying people with his very human strength. He had to be moving twice the speed of light. which doesn't make sense. But we can let him have that speed It doesn't matter. It's still not fast enough.

But I will help you out, I will tell how the flash can win. Flash cruises in and realizes quickly he is fighting someone who can anticipate his every moves and although he isn't as fast as flash he blocks and parry flashes every possible attempt to get thru vaders defenses. So flash prepares for the inevitable. When vader stabs him in abdomen flash grabs and holds the sword in place vader anticipates what's coming and prepares to block with a force shield, but it is not enough to stop flash infinity punch. Flash pulls out the sword and heals himself with the force.

Of course the flash doesn't fight like that. So vader still takes this. 5 out of 10. Hey I know the flash can win. I just want a better argument than "cause he is faster."

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
who?-kid. you have never had a dream about a future event? Just kidding. Sometimes God sends people visions. That is what I mean by that.
Ok, no problem. Have to go now, and lay down a bit...

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
How is that crazy?Because for one, the rules say no prep time unless otherwise stated. And two, hinging the fight whether or not Vader dreams he'll be fighting Flash is ludicrous.
Originally posted by ebonyblade1
Of course the flash doesn't fight like that. So vader still takes this. 5 out of 10. Hey I know the flash can win. I just want a better argument than "cause he is faster." This isn't a comic through. Flash has uneventfully knocked people out in a shred of a second but usually doesn't because it makes for boring stories. Since there is no story here, at the most Vader would get 1/10. After the first fight, if Flash loses, the other nine would be Flash KOing Vader before he can react.