We need a pre-prequel movie!

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Bantha Fodder
I've been reading all the spoilers I can, and I've even read the novelization of AOTC. But still, I have no idea where Darth Sideous originated, where he learned so much about the force, and how he hides himself from the Jedi. Lucas NEVER explains this in Episodes I and II, and I doubt he will in III. So basically, although the prequels were supposed to clear up the Star Wars universe for us, I feel even more confused after having seen them.

We know that Palpatine is from Naboo, and he was a Senator there, and probably became a Senator via slick, evil ways, but how the HELL did he learn so much about the force? Is he self taught? If so then that would be a real monkey wrench in the OT, after all, if Luke could have taught himself about the force, he wouldn't have had to put up with Dagobah and Yoda. He could have just read a few "The Force for Dummies" books and gone to whup Vader's ass.

So what gives? Don't we ever learn anything about Palpatine's past, whether he has children, etc? What a great plot twist it would be if it turns out Palpatine knocked up Schmi and is actually Anakin's father! It makes more sense than an immaculate conception. roll eyes (sarcastic)

It's just so tragic that Lucas made Episode I so horribly bad, and he didn't even bother to give us a decent background on what is happening in the Star Wars Universe. He's washed up and old, no good for anything...thank the SITH LORD that Lucas got some help with AOTC's script, because without it this movie would be as bad or even worse than TPM.

Ushgarak
Well, I certainly do not agree that GL is in any way washed up. I liked TPM.

But you must remember that it was not the job of the PT to explain absolutely everything in the Star Wars universe! That would just be silly. The important things are that it tells the earlystories of Anakin, Obi-Wan and Amidala, and the fall of the Republic. Everything else is just extra. Would it REALLY make a difference if we knew how Palpatine became a Sith? It's interesting, yes, but entirely non-essential.

And your immaculate conception thing is way off base, as so many have been before. It's a typical greco-roman myth thing, not some weird Christian allegory.

Having Palpatine being Anakin's father would be a terrible plot, as far as I am concerned, and a dreadful piece of repetition.

jedi fernando

jedi fernando

Ushgarak
Just a typo; I corrected it already.

LanceWindu
TPM was not a bad movie, it's just Lucas had to re-introduce us into the new type of SW universe. He had a lot to do in a 2 hour movie.

jedi fernando

LanceWindu
He had to make sure everyone knew this wasn't going to be the same as A New Hope. That is why he had to introduce us to these new characters. He didn't want people going in there thinking that Hamill, Ford, or Fisher were going to be there.

Emperor Helmet
There was peace in the galaxy at the time of TPM. That was never seen in another SW movie. He had to show the audience how good the galaxy used to be. That way we know what the Rebels are fighting for in the OT.

And Fernando, you couldn't have written a better TPM.

LanceWindu
I say that we should leave TPM alone til after we see how it is used in AOTC and Ep3.

jedi fernando

jedi fernando
i agree with lance

Bantha Fodder
It's your right to like whatever you want.



It seems essential to me, since he is behind EVERYTHING that happens in teh entire trilogy! Ok, so we learn that Sideous turned Anakin to the Dark Side, but if we don't know where Sideous originated, then we STILL don't really know how Anakin became a Lord of the Sith. TPM explained the wrong things....the Force didn't need explaining with midichlorians, for sure.




No, it's a reference to Jesus, and you are off base. It's a very weak plot device and totally unoriginal.



You need to learn about this thing called sarcasm. Of course it would be a dumb plot...but no dumber than TPM.

Ushgarak
It is NOT a Jesus reference. I have no idea why you think that. I am not off-base at all; I am basing what I say on what the people behind the films have said.

And since when did Star Wars films have tro be original to be good, hmm? The whole POINT of ANH was that it was the OLDEST story there was.

And Sidious being Anakin;s father would be far, far, far weaker than TPM.

Bantha Fodder
We never had to do that with any other Star Wars movie. If a movie so bad that it must be "left alone" until a sequel comes out to make more money, that's a very damning condemnation of the movie.

I'll say it again, there is no reason why TPM couldn't have set up the OT while being a great movie at the same time. These are not exclusive properties of a movie. In fact most of the time sequels are made because the first movie was so great, not because the first movie sucked and the director wants another chance to make it right.

Ushgarak
But TPM is designed, from the ground up, NOT to fully work until the other films are done. That is a perfectly acceptable thing to do- just like LOTR.

ANH was designed as a stand-alone as they were unsure wheteher they were getting a sequel.

Bantha Fodder
TPM didn't seem very peaceful to me. I saw war on a planetary scale, an Evil Sith Lord taking control of the galactic senate, and a great Jedi Master die. If this is your definition of peace, I'd hate to see what you call war.

And no, we don't need any explaining about what the rebels were fighting in the OT. It is self evident that a dictatorship is evil and wrong, we don't need it explained to us.

You attempts at defending TPM are weak. Why do you make apologies for such a bad movie? Did Lucas pay YOU to see the film? I didn't think so...

Ushgarak
Just accept that he likes the film, Bantha, and just because you think it was bad not everyone else will.

Bantha Fodder
Nobody ever thought to tell such a story in the way that Lucas did with ANH. He brought together elements from different generes that don't normally fit together.



And you cannot sense sarcasm when it stares you in the face.

Ushgarak
I certainly can. Your pitifiully weak attempt at it did not register. But in any case, when you said it was "no dumber than TPM", that was CERTAINLY not sarcasm, and I refuted it.

But if you can call ANH original just because of the cultural blending, then SO is TPM. So it uses a Chosen One plot. So what? Like I say, ANH is for more derivative, and is all tbe better for it.

Bantha Fodder
The hobbit set up LOTR, and the first installment of LOTR stands on it's own as a brilliant movie.

If TPM is designed not to work until after Episodes II and III, then why didn't Lucas wait until AFTER he made II and III to release TPM? Doesn't make very much sense, does it? Your arguments are weak and illogical.

Ushgarak
My arguments are PERFECTLY logical, thanks; yours, on the other hand, don't seem to have had any thought put into them at all.

GL has plainly stated thatr he sees these as elongated movies broken down into parts, not seperate events. Much like book chapters. The new 'story' is not finished until Ep. iii is done, and then TPM will link in far better. He has done it like this because hw KNOWS he is getting all three films.

It would be dumb to release TPM after the others- utterly dumb. It would just mean that ep. ii made little sense. Nice one.

Meanwhile, there are a LOT of peoplew who, not having had the benefit of reading the books, think that FOTR did not work in the slightest as a standalone movie.

And the Hobbit barely set-up LOTR at all, with only the Ring (unidentified) and some of the characters in common.

Bantha Fodder
Huh? It think I should know better than you when I'm being sarcastic! What, you want me to start telling you when you're ready for your next bowl movement?


Actually I think it would be hilarious if we found out that Palpatine knocked up Schmi from a one-night stand. It would make Anakin's mother a ****! Even cooler would be if Palpatine used the force to woo Schmie into bed, and then kicked her ass out on the cold, hard floor when he was done with her, "you can leave now, my young *****, you're dry pussy is no match for using the dark side of the force to masturbate!"

After all, TPM is supposed to be FUNNY, that's your argument, right? Well if so then make it funny. I didn't laugh at all during TPM, and I've never seen anyone who did.

Ushgarak
When did I say it was meant to be funny?
But I will tell you who laughed at it- the KIDS. The pople GL aimed the movie at.

And if you WERE being sarcastic, you really were NOT coming across there at all, so you should expect serious refutation.

Bantha Fodder
First you say that TPM will work better after Episodes II and III, then you say it would be dumb to release it after II and III? That doesn't make any sense. If the movie isn't any good until after we see II and III, then why bother watching it BEFORE seeing II and III? You're logic is weak, boy.

Odd that you would care one way or the other about TPM. If you liked it that's fine, just don't pat yourself on the back for having good taste in movies. You obviously can't separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to movies. That's ok, you're probably good at something else.

As for the hobbit, you need some schooling on that one, boy. The Hobbit is the introduction to the entire LOTR universe. Maybe you don't read much but that's a fact, plain and simple. If you disagree then you may as well argue that the sky isn't blue.

Bantha Fodder
I'm still waiting for someone too explain why the origin of Darth Sideous isn't important enough to the Star Wars universe to be explained in TPM.

After all, we are told that everything we learned about the Force from the OT is wrong, that it's nothing more than a quantifiable genetic trait. If THAT needed explaining, then surely one of the most influential characters in the entire Star Wars saga could have been explained?

Ushgarak
Again, my logic is fine. Your reading of it is weak.

TPM WILL work better with the other two movies finished. But that does NOT mean that it is only relevant once the other two are done. In fact, it HAS to happen first for us to be properly able to watch and appreciate the othee two, which will in turn allow us to appreciate the VITAL role of TPM. Clear?

If TPM was released afterwards, quite aside from the organisational problems, we would have two ffilms, th impact of which would make very little sense until TPM came out, which is an insane way around to do it. As it is, we have something that grows and makes more sense as time goes by in a logical way. Easy enough.

I like TPM, and I consider myself to have a fine taste in movies, and I am certainly not arrogant enough to make a comment like you have done about me just because of a person's taste in films. You need to be a little more accepting of others/

And I am a MASSIVE Tolkien fan, thank you very much., I think you will foind thar Tolkien himself siad that the purpose of the Hobbit was NOT to set-up LOTR. If anything, that is the job of the Simarillion. When you know what the hell you are talking about, feel free to get back to me.

The Hobiit is simply a story that occurs earlier, with only a vague linking into the LOTR plotline.

Meanwhile, you have COMPLETELY mewssed up in saying that the Force is an identifiable genetic trait. That is NOT true. What IS true is that people who are strong in the Force attract high levels of midi-chlorians, and thusly that this is a a way to detect someone's force potential.

And Sidious' origins are simply NOT that important to the story; not in the slightest. Get over it.

jedi fernando

jedi fernando

Emperor Helmet
TPM was good on it's own. It doesn't need Episode II and II to make it better.


Sidious's origins may not ever be known. But it is far to early to know for sure. At this point we have no idea what Lucas has in store for us. I do know that it is nothing that has ever been discussed in these forums.

Ushgarak
he has every right to find Sidious' origins interesting. They WOULD be interesting. But what they are not is vital to the story.

peluffo
Nice to see Bantha again... roll eyes (sarcastic) and nice to read that he is still whining about TPM... roll eyes (sarcastic)

My little advise: Let Helmet and Bantha to kill each other alone, bring the popcorn and enjoy the show... Both of them used to be irritating in the way they post their ideas, so let them do, and laugh out loud!

Captain REX
laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

Good one Peluffo. I needed some humor here (even if Helmet and Bantha really do start to battle it out).

Lighten up will ya'! It's just a movie.

1) What does Tolkien have to do with this?

2) The Silmarillion (which I have not read) is the explanatory book for LOTR.

3) EU is the explanatory stuff for SW.

4) STOP BICKERING!!! You even have the usually none-confrontational Ush bickering like mad.

5) It's just a movie.

What else should I say, Peluffo?

jedi fernando

peluffo
laughing out loud laughing out loud
Nuzzin else, Cpt. Just bring the beer
big grin

Julie
You can't really blame EU authors for giving wrong stories...when they wrote them there was nothing to contradict them...I got the impression that there wasn't anyone checking the whole continuity thing until early 90's......
BTW EU comics could be used to explain all Bantha's ques........

Captain REX
Well, I found out MAYBE how Palpy got access to the darkside.

No one is quite sure how Palpatine was first introduced to the power of the dark side. He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times. He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame. The very source of Palpatine's strength was killing him.

I got that off the Official Site, and usually they only release relevant stuff. And GL has been looking towards EU now. Maul's double-bladed lightsaber came from the EU about one the Sith Lords, Exar Kun, who had a double-bladed lightsaber that was blue.

Gotta go! See ya'll tomorrow!

Julie
Interesting info...thanks wink
I like those character files they have over at the officail site.

Ushgarak
Rex, be assured that GL does not look to the EU for inspiration at all. Trying to link Kun to Maul is a pointless exercise; Maul was originally created using two sabres, and in any case, a dobule-bladed sabre is hardly the most obscure thing to think up so just because the EU had used it ias well it does not mean GL borrowed the idea from the EU, any more than he took the force pushes used in TPM from the Jedi Knight games!

jedi fernando
we have to accept eu has lots of cool stuff. but not everything should be taken that seriously.

Captain REX
Okay, okay, I don't want to argue with you. You'll win. big grin

It said that on some site, I think that was Cinescape or TFN.

Harry Knowles says he saw the "Jedi Holocrons" from EU being built, but then again, I don't really believe him.

Ushgarak
Oh, well, for that matter, the words 'Sith' and 'Coruscant' made EU apperances before they were in the films, so maybe I was over the top when I said there was no inspiration at ALL, but the basic theory holds.

Captain REX
Yeah, I thought as much.

Julie
Why don't you trust Knowles????

LanceWindu
He is a pompus jackass. That's why.

I still don't believe he has seen the movie.

Captain REX
He hasn't, though he will following May 16th (unless he leads an army of fanboys who raid the theater and take the film next Tuesday.) big grin

Pompus jack ass. Couldn't have said it better myself Lance. laughing out loud

Emperor Helmet
Coruscant isn't an EU word, it is a real word. Lucas just liked that name which he kept from the EU novel. It's just the name of the planet, not the idea of the planet.

Captain REX
Ush didn't say it was EU. He said it was in EU FIRST!

Emperor Helmet
Actually it was, but Lucas already had the word picked out, along with other names that Lucas allowed Zahn to choose from. If appearing in a book first makes it EU so be it, but Zahn didn't come up with it. He just used it.

Ushgarak
if you insist, but from what I know, GL's name for the capital world was Had Abaddon.

Julie
eek! I like Coruscant better!!!!!!!

LanceWindu
Yeah, Coruscant is much better.

Captain REX
"Knights of Sith" was what it originally was on GL's list, Sith knights. But he cut it from the script and put it in ROTJ later. And (for once) Emperor Helmet makes sense. He's right. No offense. Coruscant and Sith were among GL's list of unused words.

Had Abbadon. Sounds cool, but which draft was it from?. The other planets he was going to do were Utapau, Alderaan, Aquilae, and Yavin. Aquilae played an important part in the original Version 1 script.

yerssot
actually... the word Sith is used in ANH,
When Vader enters the Tantive IV, he writes about the Dark Lord of the Sith

Ushgarak
Had Abaddon was the name for Coruscant in the first ROTJ draft.

yerssot
It got renamed into Calamari

Captain REX
Actually, Aquilae was doomed to disappear from Star Wars. But Aquarius is a planet, much like Mon Calamari. Aquilae isn't watery though.

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