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the living tribunal has ultimate power in our MULTIVERSE...can the living tribunal take out the beyonder in his own realm.....since its beyond the multiverse?

"Originally, the entity known as the Beyonder comprised all of the otherdimensional universe, called the "Beyond-Realm," in which he existed"

Still part of LT's restriction.

And the Beyonder is fake ass(still powerful).

Beyonder loses horribly.

The Beyonder was eventially revealed to be a fragment of the essence that empowers Cosmic Cubes. The process that empowers a Cube taps into a realm like the Beyond, filling the Cube with the power therein. Eventually, the power becomes concious and gains identity.
The accident that created the Molecule Man openned a portal to the Beyond and a portion of that power empowered Owen. Without a Cube to be filled by its essence, the bulk of that power remained, and became self-aware prematurely. This was what became known as the Beyonder.
The LT is on an altogether different level.

ok what about the beyonders race.....?

the guy said this thread is with the ORIGINAL Beyonder why are you guys bringing up the cosmic cube shit anyway the states im about to tell you are real cause i own both Secret Wars and Secret Wars 2 the original Beyonder was strong enough to ***** slap the celestials and im not kidding He fought them hand to hand and totally TOTALLY kicked there asses ALL of them thats not the strongest thing He did either He killed Death maknig everything immortal He had to make a new Death He could snap His fingers and blow up galaxies witch He did at least twice He had alot of power over time and space Reed Richards said this was not so a paradox in time would screw up time and destroy everything but isnt someone from the past entering the future such a paradox i might be wrong anyway Beyonder did do that when he went to a company and no one was there for that day so He call them from the past into the future even the LT was scared of Him so was Eternity Galactus got tossed away like a bug He beat the hulk with a flick of His finger He also ***** slaped the Pheonix Force the original Beyonder was the ultimate super being maybe even in both the MU and DCU i might be wrong but definatly in the MU compared to the Beyonder the LT is a insect its said that when the Beyonder died He released power 300 million times that of the multiverse i may be wrong on that number but it was something like that. Oh and THE LT DOES NOT HAVE JURISDICTION OVER ANYTHING OUT SIDE THE MULTIVERSE GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS if its outside the Multiverse its outside His power that was shown when Thanos became TOAA and destoryed the multiverse yet Adam Warlock servived due to being OUTSIDE THE MULTIVERSE.

Originally posted by kgkg
"Originally, the entity known as the Beyonder comprised all of the otherdimensional universe, called the "Beyond-Realm," in which he existed"

So the original Beyonder was like the Eternity of his universe?

thank you mider thats exactly what i meant.classic beyonder..not the one that faked alot of his powers with illusions.....but classic with real....he exists in the beyond realm which is beyond the multiverse....LT dosent have judgment there....

Originally posted by colossus17
thank you mider thats exactly what i meant.classic beyonder..not the one that faked alot of his powers with illusions.....but classic with real....he exists in the beyond realm which is beyond the multiverse....LT dosent have judgment there....

Beyond realms is different universe.

Multiverse is the entire universes, realities etc.

Beyonder was not part of normal universe, but LT has Judgment over everything.

i believe it was beyond the multiverse..not the universe

Originally posted by colossus17
i believe it was beyond the multiverse..not the universe
where did you hear that?

Comic issue? from what I know it's another universe / Dimension

not sure....just alwyas thought the beyonders realm was beyond the multiverse...

the true beyonder race are from the beyond realm which is beyond THE MULTIVERSE, not just the universe. he OWNED the tribunal, who couldnt do anythin to him, reed richards himself said that the beyonder had the potential to destroy the entire multiversem and the celestials believed that threat too, the beyonder race is second only to TOAA, or maybe a full power franklin richards.

there was a comic book page posted on kmc before, where galactus himself admitted that the beyonder's powers were beyond the multiverse and that he had the power to cure galactus of his hunger for the destruction of worlds

Full power Franklin Richards is like average Celestial power.

the LT doesnt now command all realities were the hell did you hear that? cause its not true He may be the top dog in MU but in DCU He is a chump and im sure there are other comics that have guys who can out power him easily.

Mider, what's your beef with LT?

The high evolutionary once went to the beyonder dimension, he went mad because he couldn't comprehend anything, even though he's one of the smartest around.

cause he is a bullshit character oh who wins with LT vs so and so oh LT always wins He shits cosmic cubes yeah right He is only a little bit higher then Eternity thats all put him up against anyone with some real power like Saint Of Killers or Archangel Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar or the Endless or anyone of those He would get his ass killed. Sorry guys i just cant stand the guy he use to be someone i was like wowwww at then i put up all these forums on who could beat him and oh no one could beat him no on can beat him then i read a comic were he chickened out and ran away like a little girl during a fight and yeah ask me for the comic i remeber the name and issue the guy sucks i mean even Spectre has some fun now and then so do the Angels and The Presance this guy is just..........dull i mean come on people have the guy go crazy or something and try to kill anyone IM BEGGING YOU MARVEL GET THE GUY OUT OF THE RUT AND MAYBE I WONT BE SO ANNOYED BY HIM. I mean DCU even had the balls to kill off there supreme being.

LT dosent have power over the beyond realm...i doubt he could even go into there....becasue it prob has totally different concepts then space,time,matter,energy,mind and so on......they are supreme beings there...not him...

LT rules no one can beat him except God

And there was no real Beyonder he was a Cube being

i am talking about the beyonder race.....

Originally posted by colossus17
i am talking about the beyonder race.....
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/b/beyonder.htm
Go there is say otherdimensional universe.

Where did you get beyond the multiverse? what issue?

http://www.marveldirectory.com/alienraces/beyonders.htm

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the true beyonder race are from the beyond realm which is beyond THE MULTIVERSE, not just the universe. he OWNED the tribunal, who couldnt do anythin to him, reed richards himself said that the beyonder had the potential to destroy the entire multiversem and the celestials believed that threat too, the beyonder race is second only to TOAA, or maybe a full power franklin richards.

It was everything illusion, he didn't destroy Death, it was only illusion, there was never original Beyonder, there is only one Beyonder, original was the one everyone thought he has those unlimited, but actully he didn't.
LT could destroy Beyond Realm with snap of two fingers.

Originally posted by kgkg
LT rules no one can beat him except God

And there was no real Beyonder he was a Cube being

lol, Mider is going to find out where you live and bomb your house.

Mider needs to calm down damn!! You cant really say the classic beyonder cos the retcon made him out to be an illusion artist from the beginning. He always has and always will be.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It was everything illusion, he didn't destroy Death, it was only illusion, there was never original Beyonder, there is only one Beyonder, original was the one everyone thought he has those unlimited, but actully he didn't.
LT could destroy Beyond Realm with snap of two fingers.

Um, that's right. An illusion!

He said the original Beyonder. Not the reckonned Beyonder, meaning look at Beyonder from Secret War I and II. How would that Beyonder do against LT?

And before Marvel decided to reckon him, Beyonder was like to Eternity as Eternity is to an average human. Galactus himself said the Beyonder was beyond the multiverse. LT couldn't do sh!t, even though Beyonder killed Death.

Pre-reconned Beyonder > LT.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Um, that's right. An illusion!

He said the original Beyonder. Not the reckonned Beyonder, meaning look at Beyonder from Secret War I and II. How would that Beyonder do against LT?

And before Marvel decided to reckon him, Beyonder was like to Eternity as Eternity is to an average human. Galactus himself said the Beyonder was beyond the multiverse. LT couldn't do sh!t, even though Beyonder killed Death.

Pre-reconned Beyonder > LT.

But there was no original Beyonder.

Originally posted by kgkg
But there was no original Beyonder.

I really don't know what's up with this forum, most other's get what original Beyonder is.

I'll try to clear this up. "Original" is a stipulation. It refers to a pre-reckonned Beyonder. Beyonder before Marvel decided to say that Beyonder was an illusionist.

Now, Pre-Reconned is NOT Pre-Crisis. Similar, both not the same. Pre-Reconned Beyonder refers to Beyonder of SW I and II. Pre-Crisis = Before Crisis of Infinite Earth - another reconned but also an event. All Marvel did was say Beyonder is nothing but an illusionist; it killed everything that Beyonder did as a feat.

You shouldn't take into account what happens in SWIII and everything after that. Pre-Reconned Beyonder is everything in SW I and II.

Why you say? That Beyonder was the closes thing to God in the comics - hence why Marvel decided to reconned. Some fans love that Beyonder and thought the reconned was stupidly executed and a cheesy way to depower such a cool character.

When people refer to the "original" they're talking about Beyonder before being reconned into a cube being.

Why use him in this way? Why not? It's a forum and you can use any scenerio you want. What's wrong with using a character from a certain time as oppose to giving them powers of other characters, doing fusions, using alter-egos, etc. in a fight?

Originally posted by Beyonder
I really don't know what's up with this forum, most other's get what original Beyonder is.

I'll try to clear this up. "Original" is a stipulation. It refers to a pre-reckonned Beyonder. Beyonder before Marvel decided to say that Beyonder was an illusionist.

Now, Pre-Reconned is NOT Pre-Crisis. Similar, both not the same. Pre-Reconned Beyonder refers to Beyonder of SW I and II. Pre-Crisis = Before Crisis of Infinite Earth - another reconned but also an event. All Marvel did was say Beyonder is nothing but an illusionist; it killed everything that Beyonder did as a feat.

You shouldn't take into account what happens in SWIII and everything after that. Pre-Reconned Beyonder is everything in SW I and II.

Why you say? That Beyonder was the closes thing to God in the comics - hence why Marvel decided to reconned. Some fans love that Beyonder and thought the reconned was stupidly executed and a cheesy way to depower such a cool character.

When people refer to the "original" they're talking about Beyonder before being reconned into a cube being.

Why use him in this way? Why not? It's a forum and you can use any scenerio you want. What's wrong with using a character from a certain time as oppose to giving them powers of other characters, doing fusions, using alter-egos, etc. in a fight?
ok lol , I just don't like accepting that fact lol(i like the fake one)

If you want to use SWI, II then he is stronger than LT.

Even the watcher claimed that fact.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3747555

That f#cken lightbulb head is at it AGAIN!

"Classic" Beyonder then? Well, Doom beat him...

The first Secret Wars was cool. Plenty of fights, surprising alliances, long term repercussions (Spidey's Symbiote, Kitty & Collossus splitting up, Vision taking over the world, Thing's solo mag, etc), and surprising plot twists galore.

The second SW was a shameless money grab crammed down the writers throats, and it showed. The only parts I liked were when he had to figure out how to poo and when Rachel-Pheonix went all out.

Beyonder - the poster - is right. The "original, classic" Beyonder was insanely powerful. Illusions my ass lol. He did all those things (destroying death, killing countless civilizations without breaking a sweat, totally humiliating the celestials) with his own power.

He was definitely more powerful than the IG.

But Marvel-writers - god bless'em - decided, after the whole Secret Wars I and II thing, that the Beyonder was too powerful, he almost was a true God, or maybe even The God. That's why they decided to come up with a story that would make clear that all what he had done (or at least a lot of it) was only an illusion.

I never never liked that decision of Marvel, to put it mildly.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Beyonder - the poster - is right. The "original, classic" Beyonder was insanely powerful. Illusions my ass lol. He did all those things (destroying death, killing countless civilizations without breaking a sweat, totally humiliating the celestials) with his own power.

He was definitely more powerful than the IG.

But Marvel-writers - god bless'em - decided, after the whole Secret Wars I and II thing, that the Beyonder was too powerful, he almost was a true God, or maybe even The God. That's why they decided to come up with a story that would make clear that all what he had done (or at least a lot of it) was only an illusion.

I never never liked that decision of Marvel, to put it mildly.
yes lol and you know

When beyonder backslapped the Celestials.

The celestial made him believe that he did it (created a Illusion to test the beyonder).

Even Kosmos (be yonder , empowered MM , Comic Cube) said that Celestials are way beyond their kind.

My point may have been missed.

I somehow don't see Doom cutting up Klaw, stealing some spare parts from Galactus's ship, and building a machine to steal the LT's power.

Yet, this happenned to the Beyonder...

I would contend that the absurdities of the SWII are themselves not the "Classic" Beyonder.

SWII was just dumb.

Doom only stole the Beyonders power cause He had a machine on Him that would do that if the Beyonder got to close witch He did while disecting Doom.

and becasue the beyonder was ablivous....to doom's intentions

It worked, didn't it?

That Doom's whammy only worked at close range, and that he struck by surprise, just makes my point even moreso. Omnipotence doesn't need excuses.

Heck, this would've worked even better on SWII Beyonder. You could ambush him while he was on the toilet or indulging his latest desire or whatever. All the godlings he smacked around tried to take him head on.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
It worked, didn't it?

That Doom's whammy only worked at close range, and that he struck by surprise, just makes my point even moreso. Omnipotence doesn't need excuses.

Heck, this would've worked even better on SWII Beyonder. You could ambush him while he was on the toilet or indulging his latest desire or whatever. All the godlings he smacked around tried to take him head on.

? What are you babbling about? Doom used claw and Galactus's ship to steal Galactus' power. Then he used Galactus' power to fight the Beyonder. Beyonder ripped him apart, dissecting him. Doom then used his armor to absorb Beyonder's power.

As for LT, LT couldn't beat Kovac, only contained him. And how did Korvac get so powerful? Oh that's right, from Galactus' ship.

Thought I'd take a break from slapping little kids around and do some constructive analysis.

Living Tribunal vs. Classic Beyonder.

Ok, I understand that 'Classic Beyonder' refers to your state of mind when you think of the Beyonder...to properly participate in this discussion, you have to believe he was as powerful as depicted before his retcon.

With that in mind, you have to find a spot for him in the food chain, and it is surely near the top.

From what I remember he had insane reality warping abilities, he pushed around the Celestials, and 'killed' Death. I would place him at a level above Eternity and Death...but I didn't see anything that would suggest that he could eclipse LT.

In the multiverse controlled by LT, I would probably place him second.

LT can shut down an entire universe...BUT, he apparently has no jurisdiction in Beyonder's realm, so that presents a problem. Here's where the questions come into play.

How much raw power does LT possess? Just because he has no jurisdiction, does that mean he is physically unable to subdue the Beyonder? We will never know.

Considering we don't know, it's best to go on what we've seen. So strictly based on assumption, I would say the Beyonder would probably win. For the simple reason that he is in his realm, LT is outside of his. Sort of how Mephisto is uber powerful in his own realm, but considerably weaker outside.

thats the best analysis....thats exactly what i meant

Faker can't do nothing to LT. LT has the pwoer over all Marvel Universe, and Beyond realm is part of it, so LT crushes all. Always about that Realm is beyond Multiverse, how do you know LT doens't have power over Beyond Realm, has it been proven. LT has the power over all Marvel Universe, that is it.

? LT couldn't do shit to the original Beyonder. Proof? Yeah, he couldn't do sh!t except try to reason like every other deity to the Beyonder. Beyonder killed Death; LT and everyone else couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Faker? We're talking about the Original/Pre-Reconned Beyonder. Post-Reconned Marvel made him a "fake."

Well even the argument that The Beyonder's power is outside the multiverse and therfore not subject to The Living Tribunal's authority, TLB still has alot of power and an entire multiverse to show for it. I doubt he wouldn't be smart enough to call this an appocalyptic war and ask for all the help he could get. (Dr.Doom would obviously play a role. He'd never pass up such an oppurunity to topple a god..)

Unfourtanatly no matter who wins..
We lose..

Originally posted by Beyonder
? LT couldn't do shit to the original Beyonder. Proof? Yeah, he couldn't do sh!t except try to reason like every other deity to the Beyonder. Beyonder killed Death; LT and everyone else couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Faker? We're talking about the Original/Pre-Reconned Beyonder. Post-Reconned Marvel made him a "fake."

What is wrong with you, Original Beyonder=Beyonder (illusionst), the differnce is only that it was thought at begging he is so powerful, but he never was, and he isn't. Original Beyonder is shit compared to LT.

Originally posted by Xplosive
What is wrong with you, Original Beyonder=Beyonder (illusionst), the differnce is only that it was thought at begging he is so powerful, but he never was, and he isn't. Original Beyonder is shit compared to LT. You don't understand.

You have to suspend disbelief. You have to PRETEND that he and his powers were real. You have to shift your thinking back to the mid-80s and believe the Beyonder was everything he was depicted to be...then compare that to LT.

When you're done, then you can continue believing he was a faker.

Originally posted by Lord S
You don't understand.

You have to suspend disbelief. You have to PRETEND that he and his powers were real. You have to shift your thinking back to the mid-80s and believe the Beyonder was everything he was depicted to be...then compare that to LT.

When you're done, then you can continue believing he was a faker.

I am already through this, and now it's time for faker, and he always was.
It's useless to pretend and using Beyonder at the beggining (cause he isn't all that at all), cause his true pwoers were still shit.

If you're unable to debate by the required criteria, then you shouldn't be commenting in the first place.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I am already through this, and now it's time for faker, and he always was.
No he wasn't always a "faker", that's the whole idea. During Secret Wars I and II, he was much much more powerful than Galactus, Death, all the Skyfathers, the Watchers and the Celestials together.

But some time later, some genius at Marvel decided that the Beyonder had become too powerful, so they wrote a story in which was explained that lots of his powers were merely illusions.

1. In this thread, we use the original Beyonder
2. Something else: even the Fake Beyonder was insanely powerful, because he sure fooled like the whole universe (or at least the whole earth).

Originally posted by Xplosive
I am already through this, and now it's time for faker, and he always was.
It's useless to pretend and using Beyonder at the beggining (cause he isn't all that at all), cause his true pwoers were still shit.

Okay, it seems obvious you don't know how to seperate things. I'm afraid your head might pop if I were to go through this with you again.

Originally posted by who?-kid
No he wasn't always a "faker", that's the whole idea. During Secret Wars I and II, he was much much more powerful than Galactus, Death, all the Skyfathers, the Watchers and the Celestials together.

But some time later, some genius at Marvel decided that the Beyonder had become too powerful, so they wrote a story in which was explained that lots of his powers were merely illusions.

1. In this thread, we use the original Beyonder
2. Something else: even the Fake Beyonder was insanely powerful, because he sure fooled like the whole universe (or at least the whole earth).

You just don't get it, only his illusions made it seem he is more powerful, I canot take Original Beyodner serious since he is=Beyonder (illusionet), 100% no differnce between them, he was always the same, it was only thgouht he isn't, he never destroyed Death. Original Beyone was faker, don't use Original Beyonder did that and that, everything he has done were illusions, nothing more.

I think I didn't make myself clear enough

Move one people, Original Beyoder was weak comapred to LT.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Move one people, Original Beyoder was weak comapred to LT.
Original = Pre-Reconned

Pre-Reconned is when his powers were real. (marvel made it a fake later on)

This is before when we knew that the Beyonder was a fake.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Move one people, Original Beyoder was weak comapred to LT.
No he wasn't. Eternity was really scared of him.

LT > Beyonder > Eternity.

And you call that weak ?

Originally posted by who?-kid
No he wasn't. Eternity was really scared of him.

LT > Beyonder > Eternity.

And you call that weak ?

actually it's Beyonder > LT > Eternity.

Originally posted by who?-kid
I think I didn't make myself clear enough

No you didn't. He just operates a lot slower than everyone else does.

Originally posted by kgkg
Original = Pre-Reconned

Pre-Reconned is when his powers were real. (marvel made it a fake later on)

This is before when we knew that the Beyonder was a fake.

Yes, but he was still fake (Original Beyodenr=faker that we found out later that he was fake) , only that we found out later, Beoynder was never what we thought he was, he was far less than LT, Eternity, we only thought he was above, while he was far from that.

Originally posted by Beyonder
No you didn't. He just operates a lot slower than everyone else does.

No, your nickname is Beyonder, Beyonder is nothihg to PF or Eternity or especilaly to LT. You operate slower, who cares about Original Beyonder, he was faker, he always was, it's proven, why are you making original Beoynder, he is faker. I don't know why are you taking Original Beoynder seriously (since we dicovered he never was all that, far from that, move on, he was faker), he did that , he never did that, he did with illusions, is it so difficult to understand that.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No, your nickname is Beyonder, Beyonder is nothihg to PF or Eternity or especilaly to LT. You operate slower, who cares about Original Beyonder, he was faker, he always was, it's proven, why are you making original Beoynder, he is faker. I don't know why are you taking Original Beoynder seriously (since we dicovered he never was all that, far from that, move on, he was faker), he did that , he never did that, he did with illusions, is it so difficult to understand that. Is it so difficult to understand the context of this thread? Seriously...look up 'suspend disbelief'.

Everyone and their mother knows and accepts that Beyonder was a faker...but this is like a 'What If' thread.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No, your nickname is Beyonder, Beyonder is nothihg to PF or Eternity or especilaly to LT. You operate slower, who cares about Original Beyonder, he was faker, he always was, it's proven, why are you making original Beoynder, he is faker. I don't know why are you taking Original Beoynder seriously (since we dicovered he never was all that, far from that, move on, he was faker), he did that , he never did that, he did with illusions, is it so difficult to understand that.



You don't get what Pre-recon means huh?

And aleast Beyonder had something to reckon. He wasn't just all talk like Apocalypse. "Full potential" Apocalypse my a$$.

Full potential Apocalypse = never
GOD-like Beyonder = Secret War I & II

Even taking that reckon into consideration:
- Beyonder stilled created Kurse. Kurse stomped Thor w/ strength belt. Kurse stomped Thor & Beta Ray Bill, something Apocalypse can only dream of.

Originally posted by Beyonder
:
GOD-like Beyonder = Secret War I & II



GOD-like Beyonder=Ultimate Faker

Stated from X-Plosive, the Ultimate Apolypse Fanboy, the wanna be god that gets stomped from the X-Men everytime, lucky for Apoc he never crossed the sword with the Avengers of Busiek and Perez time, when WM, Herc and Thor where in the same team, with also Giant Man, Iron Man, Justice, Firestar and Wasp, or he'll be owned so bad he'll probably retire in a far galaxy

Classic Beyonder wins this.