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...Or they have the same power?

According to the book:

TREATISE ON TRUE DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
by St. Louis de Montfort

It proclaims:

7. The saints have said wonderful things of Mary, the holy City of God, and, as they themselves admit, they were never more eloquent and more pleased than when they spoke of her. And yet they maintain that the height of her merits rising up to the throne of the Godhead cannot be perceived; the breadth of her love which is wider than the earth cannot be measured; the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived; and the depths of her profound humility and all her virtues and graces cannot be sounded. What incomprehensible height! What indescribable breadth! What immeasurable greatness! What an impenetrable abyss!

Here, it says that Mary has a great power which WIELDS OVER the one who is God.

While here:

76. Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power", so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure.

It says that Mary has power somewhat similar to God.

The power of the Savior and of the servant.... according to the Catholic Saint Louis de Montfort is quite of the same level. While, it inconsistently proclaim that Mary has great power which wields over the one who is God.

So, the POLL about this is created.

Well since god is god I would say god has sthe most power.Reather it is more then the devil I have no idea.JM

Well, for me, as a Christian... God is all-powerful.

I believe what the scriptures tell me, and that means, since gods powers is said to be infinite, God is more powerful...Mary.....she'd just be a spirit wouldn't she....hmm...maybe she gets special privelages?

Well behind every good man is a woman, so I'll say god..

Originally posted by God Puppet
I believe what the scriptures tell me, and that means, since gods powers is said to be infinite, God is more powerful...Mary.....she'd just be a spirit wouldn't she....hmm...maybe she gets special privelages?
So St. Louis de Montfort was wrong when he declared that Mary has great power which WIELDS OVER the one who is God?

St. Louis de Montfort was nothing than a man(french priest) with an opinion on the matter, he was probably just as wrong as he was right.
Many religious writers will get followers du to his/hers writings, with this those who disagree comes along as well. So whos to say?

St. Louis de Montfort did not base what he said about Mary in scripture at all. the bible says that mary was chosen by god to give birth to Jesus but not that she had any power. god and jesus are the only two that have power over the earth

i personally dnt believe in any of them, so for me they are all equal-how would u be able to tell who is the more powerful anywya..?

Christianly speaking, St. Louis de Montfort was wrong. Maybe, that's it. How can a Catholic "saint" - an allege intercessor - be so wrongful? Any Catholic, must explain.

wrong to you, not to others, when are you gonna get it in your head that you do not have monopoly on how to interpreter the scriptures so stop babling about that their(catholic) ways are wrong cause it is just as right as your way.

No, fins. Since Mary said that she is a servant to God, it means that she is not in any other way powerful than God or even has the same level as God's power. Yet, St. Louis de Montfort proclaims that Mary has great power which wields over the one who is God. His contention was against the Bible. And it was not according to me. It was according to the Bible.

he was just a man nothing more.

Ask me this jury, what is the difference of a church of christ in the US and one from where you live, or is it the exact same denomination?

Since I am a Christian. I am a pro-Bible. Catholics are Christians too... because they too believe in Christ. And you are NOT, fins. So, this doesn't matter to you.

Catholics and I believe in the Bible. And I've learned that de Montfort declared through his book something unbiblical... that's why I presume it as wrong. I created this thread so that I can be able to hear the side of the Catholics about this thing.

Originally posted by finti
he was just a man nothing more.

Ask me this jury, what is the difference of a church of christ in the US and one from where you live, or is it the exact same denomination?
I respect your opinion. But this doesn't matter to you because we speak of the Bible.

And sorry, I cannot answer an off-topic question.

if you were pro bible you wouldnt have told other pro biblical people they are wrong in their ways

why are you afraid of what comes next if you do answer the off topic question?

learned it by yourself or did one of the cuhrch of christ elder calim it to be unbiblical

Originally posted by finti
if you were pro bible you wouldnt have told other pro biblical people they are wrong in their ways

Jesus believed in the Old Testament and the Jews do. And Jesus wouldn't have showed the Pharisees and the Jews that they were wrong, if that is the case.

Christians have a spiritual obligation to reveal what the truth is to their fellow who in other way has deceived with lies of their religious authorities.

Originally posted by finti
why are you afraid of what comes next if you do answer the off topic question?
Your question is just irrelevant to the topic.

and who ever said your ways(Church of Christ) is the truth?

maybe it will shed some lights unto why you ask the questions you ask in this topic

Originally posted by finti
learned it by yourself or did one of the cuhrch of christ elder calim it to be unbiblical
Christians call it "comparing spiritual things with spirtual words".

Spiritual things and Doctrines must be based in the Spiritual words of God - the Bible.

When the Bible said that Mary is a servant to God and acknowledges God as her Savior... then this is considered as Spiritual words.

While, deMontfort claims that Mary has a great power which wields over the one who is God... then he must be going against what the Bible has stated.

Originally posted by finti
and who ever said your ways(Church of Christ) is the truth?
The Bible is the Truth.

Originally posted by finti
maybe it will shed some lights unto why you ask the questions you ask in this topic
No. This is between what the Bible has proclaimed and what the Catholic saint has declared.

you believe it to be the truth, diffrence between that and state it as a fact

again he was nothing more than a man and no man has ever been without fault

Originally posted by finti
wrong to you, not to others, when are you gonna get it in your head that you do not have monopoly on how to interpreter the scriptures so stop babling about that their(catholic) ways are wrong cause it is just as right as your way.

He isnt Finti. He is biased beyond belief regarding Catholicism, so you may as well give up. However I find it hysterically funny that Jury is guilty of the same short sightedness he claims Catholics suffer so greatly from. Well that and over use of the smilie when he's backed against the wall.

I gotta quit coming in here because all this does is send my blood pressure through the roof.

oh Catholics. no2

Fins, as I said, this is about Bible... and you have nothing to do with it.
and you're out of this discussion.

And no Catholics can admit that what deMontfort has declared is an effect of his manly fault. How can he become a Catholic saint if they would.

I participate as long as I feel like it, not when a delusional member of a pitty cult says so

politics, now I think you really envy the catholics cause they are a real force within the christian society

Well, that is according to you.

Shall we ignore what this Catholic SAINT is saying?

If that is... then, it's okay for me.

And I am asking the Catholics.. not the Atheists.

guess the catholics ignores what you are asking

Jury, do you think Catholics will go to Heaven??

Probably fins.

And deb, the ones who will go to heaven are those who obey God's will. And believing that Mary is powerful than God is against God's will.

Catholics dont believe Mary has greater power than god,
the catholics look at Mary with awe due to the burden and sacrifice she got with bringing forth the son of god

Originally posted by finti
you believe it to be the truth, diffrence between that and state it as a fact

again he was nothing more than a man and no man has ever been without fault

I agree with Jury. Mary was only a blessed woman whom God chose to give birth to Jesus his son because she was pure of heart and body. Jesus said " no one goes to the Father (God) except through me" . Jesus is the only saviour . He also said to his disciples " in My name will you cast out demons and heal the sick". Mary thus has no power at all. Christians have more power than Mary as when we accept Jesus as our savior the Bible says that we become equal partners with Jesus. We also through the working of the Holy Spirit can heal the sick, and cast out demons. In Fact Jesus said that we will do even greater things than He did. We just need to believe it. But then of course you need to believe the Bible being the written word of God and being the Truth, first.

thank you!

well do you really know what role mary got in your heaven after her death?

that is more about politics than faith

And the works of the Catholic Saints are considered "Articles of Faith", aren't they?

as I said it became politics, and when politics are involved thing start to loose its conntext

As I said, that is according to you... because you do not believe in these Catholic saints... But for the concerned Catholics, they do not think what you think.

considering the fact that many catholics dont agree with all the canonisation the vatican performs.

Muhammed Ali

Muhammed Ali: Hey little boy, I'm gonna beat Goerge Foreman, and your gonna beat Cancer.

Little Boy: No, I'm gonna meet God, and I'm gonna tell him I saw Muhammed Ali.

Originally posted by finti
considering the fact that many catholics dont agree with all the canonisation the vatican performs.
Exactly.

So where have the UNITY inside the Church have gone - one thing Christ was asking from his followers?

So, there's no UNITY inside the Catholic Church. The belief of one Catholic vary from the other Catholic - is it Unity in doctrine?

Catholic authorities acknowledged and approved the works of DeMontfort. As expected, there were still some who opposed. But what can they do if the authorities has already acted upon it?

By the time the book of DeMontfort was approved by the Catholic authorities, it was considered official... and already a part of their doctrine.

Therefore, Catholic generally believes that Mary has a great power which wields over the one who is God.

not according to the catholics I know

Yes, according to the Catholic Books I've read. Books approved by the Catholic Church's high ranking officials.

As I said, belief of one Catholic member varies from the other because UNITY IN DOCTRINE is not imposed to them.

What I am concerned about is that the Catholic Saint Louis de Montfort's declaration that Mary is powerful than God. And it was approved by the Catholic authorities... This only means that they believe on what this Catholic saint had proclaimed.

Originally posted by finti
thank you!

well do you really know what role mary got in your heaven after her death?

Yes, The Bible said that all who go to heaven will sit at the feet of the throne of God and the Lamb (being Jesus) and will whorship Him. That is what Mary is doing. The Bible says that there is only one God and no one greater than Him, so much for the Mary theory being greater than God.

who ever said Mary was supposed to be more powerful than god? My post was a reply to your Christians have more power than Mary so my question still stands what role does Mary have if christians have more power than her?

well Muhammed Ali said more or less the same difference is at least he proved it

I think we should all just kiss the popes picture...He's the real leader anyway...

I think I'll go light a candle for him.


clap I love the pope....I love the popeeeee...pope popepopepopepppppope....
inlove

PrinceofBlades, do you believe in this Catholic Saint's declaration that Mary has great power which wields over the one who is God? DeMontfort is a Catholic saint, and as a saint, you venerate him... while you venerate him, you also trust him. So, do you trust his book which claim that Mary is greater than or equal with God?

No pun intended. Christians and skeptics alike, why do you embrace conversation over distorted views regarding Christianity? In order to have a constructive discussion (on any topic for the matter) one must posses sound knowledge on the related subject. Otherwise, it destroys ALL relevance to your revelations. Your arguments are as empty as articles in Inquirer Magazine. There is wisdom behind knowing when to speak, and when to be quiet.

Christians... think about what you say, and why you say it? Skeptics, realize that you are receiving "Eisegesis" views (self-imposed philosophy) and it has virtually no bearing on the Holy Bible whatsoever. Consort a reliable source.

Specifically, dealing with the subject of power (for the record), Christians believe in the triune God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All are EQUAL in power, while possessing different characteristics or rolls, but all originate from the same essence.

Making attempts to elevate man as equal are superior to God is blasphemous. That is the very reason Jesus was crucified. By claiming to be "the Son of God" He made Himself equal to God, and it created much anger from the Jews. They killed Him.

The Virgin Mary, the Pope, and many other persons of great significance or worthy of mention and respect, but not power equal or above God. And they are definately NOT worthy of worship. That would be a dangerous act. It's called idolatry. All human beings, whether great or small fall under the judgement of God. It's that simple.

If anyone has questions about Christianity, please ask. I will do my best to answer them to the best of my ability, and if I don't know, I will tell you so. And will try to answer any other questions or comments you may have. As long as the discussion remains subtle, people views will not offend me. Thank you.

So, PrinceofBlades... do you believe in St. de Montfort's proclamation regarding the power of Mary?

so Jury where was the true new testament church, or church of christ as you call it before it was founded in the early 1800`s.
Or do you claim that your denomination is the first to really understand and acknowledge and follow the true meaning of the scriptures and if so why is that. Examples with proofs to this quoestion is required

Fins, We discuss with the Bible. So do you care to discuss this stuff with the Bible? If not, no use of discussion.

If so, I may ask (to answer the question), where did Christ first preached the words of God and where was He when He founded His Church?

And what about "founded in early 1800s"? Can you clarify your question regarding this?

And Prince, I'm still waiting for your response.

and I asked a question regarding it, if you dont know how to reply say so dont shy awar woth nonsense

oh please enlighten me on this cause I know your version of the bible doesnt say the sam as mine does

when the basics of yor little cult was laid out

May I say in Jerusalem? The first Church of Christ was founded in the first century in Jerusalem. That is according to the World History I've learned first in elementary school.

Regarding the 1800s... "when the basics of my little cult was laid out?" Can you please explain further?

church of christ haven't been around for all time besides what your delusional mind blinded by your congragation says

I respect your view toward my Church... the Church of Christ... with all doctrines found in the Bible.

still the word curch of christ is not found in the bible

Acts 20:28? Romans 16:16?

it says churches(plural) of christ which means the name of your church aint scriptural. So to be according to the scripture as your church always says is so bloody important your church actually got the wrong name

Churches because the churches or congregations were located in different places... but these churches belongs to One Church, One God, One Spirit, One Lord, One Doctrine, One Baptism, One Body... this Body is Christ. The Church is called the Body of Christ. Hence, the Church of Christ.

wrong word even how you try to squirm your away around the fault of your denomination choice of a name.
Your arrogant little cult messed up and struck out even before they had a chance to think how to reach first base, how embarrassing.............guess the catholic church have really emphasized upon this explaining your feeble attempt to put their name in vain

Wrong word? Who founded the Church anyway?

the followers of a man called jesus or some name like that , they went as far as to anoint him to make him a better marketing prospect, and since then they haven't agreed upon the main aspects of the faith...............yeah what a great religion

Yea, since the church changed the true words of his, they can't agree on how to interpreted them...But his original words are in the Gospel of Q...which are found in the other gospels..Mark, Luke..etc. If you look at those alone, he taught the same kinds of higher things you would expect from an enlighten person...The same types of things that you hear coming from Buddha..etc such as love...Looking only at the red letters in the bible, lets you know the right parts of his message...what a real drag.

If the church hadn't of done that, then we'd be followers of Mithra and other type religions, and the wouldn't of been a CRUSADES. No problems with Jerusalem...many wars wouldn't of happened.

I'll just answer my question. Since Jesus founded the Church... it is rightful to call this Church after His name.

Church of Christ... as how the Apostles call it.

Originally posted by Jury
I'll just answer my question. Since Jesus founded the Church... it is rightful to call this Church after His name.

Church of Christ... as how the Apostles call it.
Why are you trying to proof the truth to Finti? You know the truth and people like them will always find some excuse not to accept the truth because then they won't not have their comfortable world any more. It does not matter how they try to work their way around the Bible and Jesus, or play word games, the truth is all of mankind will stand in judgment before God one day and answer to Him.
Read the teaching of Jesus in Mark 4, the parable of the sower. Further more in Mark 16 v 15-20 it says that the disciples went worth as Jesus instructed them to preach the gospel and signs and wonders followed to confirm the Word. Today signs and miracles still happens where the word of God is preached and through the name of Jesus. So today the Word of God is still being confirmed as the Truth!

thats your faith not the truth big difference.
he cant prove a thing actually. Why? because it is faith not fact, so dont go around confusing them.

confirmed? How?

Originally posted by finti
thats your faith not the truth big difference.
he cant prove a thing actually. Why? because it is faith not fact, so dont go around confusing them.

confirmed? How?
From your answer/question is is clear that you have never seen someone receive healing after being prayed for in the name of Jesus. I have seen blind people see, crippled and paralysed people stand up and walk without aid, people dying from cancer in hospital with doctors waiting to switch off the machines keeping them alive walk out of hospital completely healed after being prayed for. I myself saw my own leg grow to match the length of my other leg while being prayed for at a church service. As Jesus said " you shall go out and in My name lay your hands on the sick and they shall be healed and in My name shall you cast out demons. And it is happening today. This is the confirmation of the Word that Jesus spoke about in Mark 16 v 20. Have you ever witnessed demons being cast out of a person. It is scary and real. And by no other name does these miracles happen because the Bibles tells that no other name besides that of Jesus Christ has authority over sickness, death and demons. The word of God is real!!!

Originally posted by sonnet
From your answer/question is is clear that you have never seen someone receive healing after being prayed for in the name of Jesus. I have seen blind people see, crippled and paralysed people stand up and walk without aid, people dying from cancer in hospital with doctors waiting to switch off the machines keeping them alive walk out of hospital completely healed after being prayed for. I myself saw my own leg grow to match the length of my other leg while being prayed for at a church service. As Jesus said " you shall go out and in My name lay your hands on the sick and they shall be healed and in My name shall you cast out demons. And it is happening today. This is the confirmation of the Word that Jesus spoke about in Mark 16 v 20. Have you ever witnessed demons being cast out of a person. It is scary and real. And by no other name does these miracles happen because the Bibles tells that no other name besides that of Jesus Christ has authority over sickness, death and demons. The word of God is real!!!

There was a hands on healing that was video taped in China. A cancerous tumor disappeared while a ultra sound device was placed on a womans abdomen. The 2 men never layed a hand on her...Who healed her? They were not Christians, but believed in the power God gives us all.

Originally posted by debbiejo
There was a hands on healing that was video taped in China. A cancerous tumor disappeared while a ultra sound device was placed on a womans abdomen. The 2 men never layed a hand on her...Who healed her? They were not Christians, but believed in the power God gives us all.

Doctors heal people every day whether its by using equipment or medicine. The power of God has nothing to to with this. Divine healing is something very different and clearly something you do not comprehend.

Yes, I do comprehend very much....But realize this..God has given us ALL the gift of healing...Even the Chinese that do not believe in Jesus.

wrong

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, I do comprehend very much....But realize this..God has given us ALL the gift of healing...Even the Chinese that do not believe in Jesus.

As I said there are a lot of aids and materials that are used in the hope of receiving healing that are not of God.

^ It was video taped and there were no aids..Just there hands over the area of a bladder tumor. This healing took under 2 mins. Why do you think it's not from God?

Originally posted by debbiejo
^ It was video taped and there were no aids..Just there hands over the area of a bladder tumor. This healing took under 2 mins. Why do you think it's not from God?

God works through people who has faith in Him, and His word and accepts His son Jesus. Read 2Thess 2:9-13 There you will find your answer . If the text was shorter I would have written it for you.

so how do you explain healing powers of peoplewho doesnt have faith in the christian god?

Originally posted by finti
so how do you explain healing powers of peoplewho doesnt have faith in the christian god?

Finti,
Read 2 Thess 2:9-13 . It explains quite nicely how this happens and why God allows it to happen. I take it you have a Bible somewhere?

actually why do you assume that?

so your god will cause us to believe lies, now how nice of a loving and caring god.
And "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation" if it is predestined what use is i

Quick question, Why is mary revered in the catholic branch of christianity? I know she's supposed to have given birth to jesus, but well that being important and all. I don't tink its important enough to give her the position she gets amongst catholics, especially as someone felt her important enough to include her in this thread.

Catholics honor Mary because she's the mother of 'God'...

-> I honor Mary because she's the mother of my Lord Jesus.

-> As a mother, she must indeed be honored. Because it is God's second most important commandment in Christian dispensation that: "honor your father and mother"... as Jesus Himself proclaimed.

->I honor Mary because she's a servant to God our Father, as according to herself.

-> I honor Mary because as a servant to God, she is 'Blessed'.

BUT, I do not honor her to the extent that I should recognize her as the Queen of Heaven, the Queen of Angels and Saints, the Mediatrix, the Co-Redemptrix, and whatever positions Catholic has catapulted her into.

They honor her as having a greater power which wields over the one who is God. That even God is subject to her kingdom.

They honor her through HYPERDULIA - a worship reserved for the Blessed Virgin alone. And this worship extends to her engraved images, pictures, scapulars and apparitions.

Her name is really Isis. And she is holding a HYPERDULIA flower.

And I mean, the real Mary. Not an imaginative goddess.

Same thing. And they're holding a flower! J/K

Oh yeah, maybe. But I mean the real Mary. Why, have you seen Mary holding a flower?

why are --> at me?

this is a stupid thread.... DUH ! God is the creator of everything so God duh!

Originally posted by Jury
Oh yeah, maybe. But I mean the real Mary. Why, have you seen Mary holding a flower?

why are --> at me?


I'm only kidding (J/K) I'm not mad at you.. No, I just like flowers..Mary is always holding Jesus, or should I say, Dionysus is always holding Osiris....

Originally posted by AdventChild
this is a stupid thread.... DUH ! God is the creator of everything so God duh!
DUH? it's not "DUH"...

Haven't you read the sources in the first post of this thread?

Catholic authorities recognize Mary as having power which wields over ne who is God.

They also recognize that she has an empire where all things and God included are subject to her.

So, is it DUH?

Well, maybe.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I'm only kidding (J/K) I'm not mad at you.. No, I just like flowers..Mary is always holding Jesus, or should I say, Dionysus is always holding Osiris....
Oh well. Yeah.

Originally posted by finti
actually why do you assume that?



If you read around those scriptures in Thes. you will see that God gave man over to believe the lie because man chose to reject Jesus and man chose to make representations (sculptures) of animals, beasts and gentile gods to worship rather than God. The whole reason for Jesus was for man to make the choice of salvation and not follow the lie.

I asume you have a Bible because you can only debate about things if you have read or studied it. No use talking about the Bible if you have never read it.

I thought we showed you how to quote remember qute between those tw and to end it a /before the word quote at the end

To have studied and read the bible doenst mean you have to own a bible.
I have had 9 years of christianity in school so oh yeah Ive studied it allright. I threw my bible, I got it when I went up for confirmation, in the garbage it wasnt and isnt and never will be of any use to me.

So Prince, do you honor St. De Montfort who proclaimed that Mary has greater power which wields over the one who is God?

HOLY CRAP! Will you people shut up!!


not you finti you make perfect sense.

How can you make everyone here "SHUT UP"?

Welcome to KMC anyway! wavey

Ehh it was worth a try

wavey censored

Finti,

I thought I was doing it right. Be patient, I'll get it right, and I am not blond.... At least you can read and have some common sense to figure it out until then. But back to the point, you sound as if you have a lot of anger towards Christianity or God or both. I can understand that. Someone very close to me turned his back on God and Christianity because of the way he was treated by Christians and he blames God for lots of misfortunes in his life. It is very sad.

Finti = common sense????
J/K

chrtistianity yes god no. I dont believe in god so I cant be angry towards something that aint there, christianity angers me they way they force their believes down our troaths

Originally posted by Jury
DUH? it's not "DUH"...

Haven't you read the sources in the first post of this thread?

Catholic authorities recognize Mary as having power which wields over ne who is God.

They also recognize that she has an empire where all things and God included are subject to her.

So, is it DUH?

Well, maybe.


ok...a human who probably sinned multiple times in her life wields gods power...rriiiiiiigghhtttt sure.... the catholic religion has changed and isn't the same any more..... the creator of everyone is controlled by a human...ok...God is almighty and no one is close other than Jesus....

Originally posted by finti
chrtistianity yes god no. I dont believe in god so I cant be angry towards something that aint there, christianity angers me they way they force their believes down our troaths

A Christian who forces his or her beliefs is not behaving in the proper way of a Christian. A Christian should offer the truth to you fervently, but only offer. Any more is not right.

It's like that bathe with Jesus guy (if you haven't heard of him, he is a guy who looks like Jesus and tries to get women to come bathe with him). He posts all the hate mail he gets from Christians who say they hate him, hope he dies, want to shoot him, and so on. He uses this mail to say Christians are hypocrites, and are bad and hateful, and do not follow their beliefs. He is correct about the specific people who email him, but he is wrong when he speaks of Christianity itself. These people are not doing what they are supposed to. By this logic, United Nations employees are all greedy, lieing, corrupt people simply because a few of them happened to be. These few are not following the proper ways of the UN, and those who write him are not following the proper way of Christ.

I apologize for anyone whom has forced his or her beliefs down your throat on behalf of Christ, and can assure you that they do not vouch for Him.

Also, although I am not a Catholic and disagree with much of their dogma, I must say that the actual Catholic position on Mary is very, very misunderstood and taken for much worse than it is. Many Catholics don't understand it properly and give her "too much credit." (and I use quotes because she does deserve some credit after all)

9 years of christianity in school was enough for me

If people can give up the dogma and live the message, then we wouldn't be in the predicament were in....yes?

faith should be a personal matter

Yes...But the doctrine states that you should recruit others...Or to be put a nicer way, save others from their own demise.

Just let them save you and get it done with. J/K

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes...But the doctrine states that you should recruit others...Or to be put a nicer way, save others from their own demise.

Just let them save you and get it done with. J/K

To join to past to get someone off your back, is like not joining at all. I know you were joking, but I thought I'd just say...

Yes, I'm joking...

You know...everything I reply to you...I'm staring at that FLY!!! That's a bizarre fly. It keeps staring at me.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, I'm joking...

You know...everything I reply to you...I'm staring at that FLY!!! That's a bizarre fly. It keeps staring at me.

I know, it's a secret camera...shifty I see you...

Originally posted by finti
9 years of christianity in school was enough for me


OHhhh did you wear a widdle uniform?? afro

Memories are so beautiful and yet.....the way we were......scattered pictures...

no we dont wear uniforms at school here

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
A Christian who forces his or her beliefs is not behaving in the proper way of a Christian. A Christian should offer the truth to you fervently, but only offer. Any more is not right.

It's like that bathe with Jesus guy (if you haven't heard of him, he is a guy who looks like Jesus and tries to get women to come bathe with him). He posts all the hate mail he gets from Christians who say they hate him, hope he dies, want to shoot him, and so on. He uses this mail to say Christians are hypocrites, and are bad and hateful, and do not follow their beliefs. He is correct about the specific people who email him, but he is wrong when he speaks of Christianity itself. These people are not doing what they are supposed to. By this logic, United Nations employees are all greedy, lieing, corrupt people simply because a few of them happened to be. These few are not following the proper ways of the UN, and those who write him are not following the proper way of Christ.

I apologize for anyone whom has forced his or her beliefs down your throat on behalf of Christ, and can assure you that they do not vouch for Him.

Who are you, and how do you know so much?.... it amazes me how intelligent you are....Though it's extreamly difficult to change one's beliefs and ideals.......

Yes you are very knowledgeable laserlike.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes you are very knowledgeable laserlike.

I must agree. It's good to know, that someone can pick up the stead after Fece Man left...

do you mean like, right now, is mary like some extreme powerful being up in heaven?? i say god, just cuz i mean, he created all we see, he did like, everything and mary just gave birth to jesus and went through life without ever sinning.

Originally posted by debbiejo



I'll never lose hope though!!!

Originally posted by sonnet
I'll never lose hope though!!!

Hope for what?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hope for what?

That you know who = common sense???

Hope that someone will get some common sense?....Ohhhh


But it really doesn't matter..... there is no hell...No worry of a firey torment and all that.

Originally posted by Jury
...Or they have the same power?

According to the book:

TREATISE ON TRUE DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
by St. Louis de Montfort

It proclaims:

7. The saints have said wonderful things of Mary, the holy City of God, and, as they themselves admit, they were never more eloquent and more pleased than when they spoke of her. And yet they maintain that the height of her merits rising up to the throne of the Godhead cannot be perceived; the breadth of her love which is wider than the earth cannot be measured; the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived; and the depths of her profound humility and all her virtues and graces cannot be sounded. What incomprehensible height! What indescribable breadth! What immeasurable greatness! What an impenetrable abyss!

Here, it says that Mary has a great power which WIELDS OVER the one who is God.

While here:

76. Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power", so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure.

It says that Mary has power somewhat similar to God.

The power of the Savior and of the servant.... according to the Catholic Saint Louis de Montfort is quite of the same level. While, it inconsistently proclaim that Mary has great power which wields over the one who is God.

So, the POLL about this is created.



Neither the saints nor Mary have any power. They are not deity or divine.

Originally posted by Jury
I'll just answer my question. Since Jesus founded the Church...

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it."
Matthew 16:18

* Jesus said this, but if we listen to what Jesus says, the One who really founded the Church is:

"For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak."
John 12:49

* the One who gave Jesus the authority and the commandment to say and speak -> and it is the Father...

Originally posted by Jury
it is rightful to call this Church after His name.

* Jesus always wants to give the glory and honor to the Father, do you think Jesus wants the Church's name after His?

"O LORD, hear; O LORD, forgive; O LORD, give heed and act; delay not, for thy own sake, O my God, because thy city and thy people are called by thy name."
Daniel 9:19

* the Church should be called of God if it is of God...

"Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sos'thenes,
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:"
I Corinthians 1:1-2

* Saint Paul is called to the Church of God and NOT the "church of christ"...

Originally posted by Jury
Church of Christ... as how the Apostles call it.

* the Apostles call it "Church of God", as to more than 10 verses in the Bible...