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No holds barred

Barren world. No inhabitants

Do you think PF full power also, if is that the case than PF might take him,
but if you think Phoenix as Jean Grey as avatar at full power against Richards full power, than I don't see Phoenix taking this at all, Richards win.

FR>PF

I personally think Franklin created the Beyonder.

Marvel created the Beyonder LOL

How did Franklin create the beyonder, he wasn't even alive........

that's right, why do people always think that Franklin is some all powerful being sure he is powerful but in the end he is just a mutant and can't be compared to the cosmic beings.

And stop talking about full potential...

you always talk about full potential molecule man, whenever he's in a vs thread, so stop being a hippocrit.

im not talking about full potential MM just his last apperance in FF 27.

But you guys always talking about full potential Franklin could beat anybody

Well he has managed the following feats, just as a kid:


-Create a pocket dimension and force galactus into it.
-Destroy mephisto in his own realm and disperse his remains across the world, which is a feat in its own.
-Get the attention of Eternity and galactus.
-Resurrect galactus, with some help though.
-Enhance the F4 with cosmic power.
-Get the attention of the celestials, who wanted to take him back to their world, as they saw him as a equal.

Theres probably more feats, but I can't remember all of them.

he also got killed by the sentinels in a alternative timeline. He is still a mutant and people like Doom, Reed and High Evo could easy make a device to make him powerless.

alternative timelines don't really count, look at hulk in the ultimate universe, even I could kick his ass.

Still a mutant...it's stupid how marvel make mutants to be all powerful look at Magneto now.

Originally posted by Molecule man
that's right, why do people always think that Franklin is some all powerful being sure he is powerful but in the end he is just a mutant and can't be compared to the cosmic beings.

And stop talking about full potential...

He is more leauge above Molecule Man.

I don't think so but he is certainly way above Apoc. Both Franklin and MM could blink Apoc out of existence!!!

Originally posted by Molecule man
I don't think so

Haha, Molecule Man powers are joke to Richards, joke, joke, joke.

OK let's say so, but Apoc is an nothing more than a ant compared to MM hahahaha

Originally posted by Molecule man
OK let's say so, but Apoc is an nothing more than a ant compared to MM hahahaha

Apocalypse has more chance agaisnt MM than MM agiasnt FR.

Just give it up Apoc don't stand a chance against MM or do u really think that Apoc would beat MM

this is the way I see it. Apoc is a beast compared to someone like Cyclops or Xavier or Wolverine. but if he faces MM the battle will end something like this.spam_laser

I'm not sure who is more powerful MM or FF so the battle to me will end like this


rifleblowupraygun

the smilie exploding is Apoc trying to prove he is powerful and coming in the middle of the fight between MM and FR

LOL

Franklin Richards is a cosmically powered mutant. He is not a Celestial. The Phoenix Force ranks higher than most Celestials. Let's do the math, folks.

True. The phoenix force is greater in power than any single celestial. I doubt the force could take on all of the celestials tho. However i believe franklin would get taken out

Originally posted by Molecule man
OK let's say so, but Apoc is an nothing more than a ant compared to MM hahahaha
MM would destroy Apc that's for sure.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
True. The phoenix force is greater in power than any single celestial. I doubt the force could take on all of the celestials tho. However i believe franklin would get taken out
Franklin = Overrated

Too much full potential bullshit

franklin is not overrated, even if we forget about his true potential and look at the things hes done, hes proven to be far above eternity death etc, CURRENTLY{forgettin his true potential "bullshit"} he has proven to be second only to, tribunal, true beyonderss, TOAA, heart of the universe, so look at it this way
full potential franklin richards vs full potential pheonix force, franklin makes her into the ***** of the multiverse.

current potential franklin richards vs, current potential pheonix force,
pheonix still gets made into the ***** she is,

n whoever says that franklin is just your average mutant with all the weaknesses should go to marvel's official site n read the franklin richard bio n stuff, quote "franklin is a mutant posessed by power FAR BEYOND THAT of any other mutant" so dont just compare franklin richards with your average uber powerful mutants.

full potential richard vs full potential phoenix= the death of everything.
But i've never seen richards do anything that impressed me more than morrisons take on the phoenix

Originally posted by Xplosive
Do you think PF full power also, if is that the case than PF might take him,
but if you think Phoenix as Jean Grey as avatar at full power against Richards full power, than I don't see Phoenix taking this at all, Richards win.

there's no real difference. PF doesnt act without its avatars, its avatars are the Phoenix (as in, the PF made sentient). They are phoenixes by mutation, like Jean Grey. The PF isn't a sentient force on its own except by drawing the life force from unborn generations in the future. Thats why it uses avatars.

full potential richard vs full potential phoenix= the death of everything.
But i've never seen richards do anything that impressed me more than morrisons take on the phoenix



so creating an entire string of complete and full sized universes without even knowing that uve done it or beeing exhausted AT ALL, isnt impressive at all is it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
franklin is not overrated, even if we forget about his true potential and look at the things hes done, hes proven to be far above eternity death etc, CURRENTLY{forgettin his true potential "bullshit"} he has proven to be second only to, tribunal, true beyonderss, TOAA, heart of the universe, so look at it this way
full potential franklin richards vs full potential pheonix force, franklin makes her into the ***** of the multiverse.

current potential franklin richards vs, current potential pheonix force,
pheonix still gets made into the ***** she is,

n whoever says that franklin is just your average mutant with all the weaknesses should go to marvel's official site n read the franklin richard bio n stuff, quote "franklin is a mutant posessed by power FAR BEYOND THAT of any other mutant" so dont just compare franklin richards with your average uber powerful mutants.


Yeah right second only to the tribunal, too much overrated by fanboys

Yeah right second only to the tribunal, too much overrated by fanboys

no too underrated by people like you molecule man.

What are you talking about, you are saying that FR is second only to the Tribunal. Wake up fanboy he is just a mutant a powerful one.

anyway. overrated or not, no 1 can deny the things he has accomplished in such a young age.

don't try too talk about something else. You made a fool out of yrself by saying that FR is second only to the Tribunal!!!

I think franklin might be able to take jean, the top avatar. Any of the lesser avatars like Rachel would get eaten.

franklin at full power is on par with your average celestial. The top phoenix avatars are above them they can tap into the force to virtually its utmost extent. Jean would take out franklin and we havent found out what rachel is in the phoenix hierarchy but having manifested the force at higher levels generally and for longer it was stated that she up to this point has shown more control. Jean is the more powerful of the two however. In my opinion either rachel or jean could dispatch franklin.

I say Franklin is in the top 10 to 15 in the Marvel Hiearchy. No way he's next to Tribunal. He's a bit above Molecule Man though.

Why are people bringing up "full potential" it's pointless!

Phoenix would have no problem with FR, but against the celestials phoenix might lose

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
franklin at full power is on par with your average celestial. The top phoenix avatars are above them they can tap into the force to virtually its utmost extent. Jean would take out franklin and we havent found out what rachel is in the phoenix hierarchy but having manifested the force at higher levels generally and for longer it was stated that she up to this point has shown more control. Jean is the more powerful of the two however. In my opinion either rachel or jean could dispatch franklin.

I dont know if rachel could. I'm pretty sure Jean could tho. and yea, Jean is much more powerful than Rachel is.

Phoenix could take on a few celestials. I don't think she could take the whole race though. Could Phoenix have resurrected Galactus if she wanted to, and restore him nearly to his full power?

has the pheonix ever created a string of alternate universes unaided by the bastracts or any1 else?

Originally posted by Sentry
Phoenix could take on a few celestials. I don't think she could take the whole race though. Could Phoenix have resurrected Galactus if she wanted to, and restore him nearly to his full power?

I thought he had help there. *shrug* could FR have healed the entire multiverse, the nexus of all realities?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
has the pheonix ever created a string of alternate universes unaided by the bastracts or any1 else?
Are you obsessed with universe and multiverse?

So now Frank is greater than LT?

no, frank doesnt have power over the multiverse, YET, so hes CURRENTLY lower than the tribunal.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, frank doesnt have power over the multiverse, YET, so hes CURRENTLY lower than the tribunal.
Just cuz he created a pocket universe doesn't put him above eternity or next to him.

Frank is life in the universe.

Eternity is the universe (everything in it)

He did Resurrect Galactus, who then blasted Abraxas with the nullifier. Current Franklin gets murdered by the Phoenix Force. A full powered adult Franklin with full knowledge of his powers could stand a chance aganist the Phoenix Force imo.

Franklin ressurected Galactus as kid, his power were far from his true potentail, he created a pocket of mini-universese as kid, he created pocket universe in another reality unconsciously he did that, until Celestail told him, he creted worlds. When I think a little better, I think FR actully surpasses PF by far, he could maybe even make out of PF a joke. FR powers are above Celestail, I think there should be no doubt about that at all.

just because he did those things as a kid doesn't mean he will be more powerful as an adult. I think he is more powerful as a kid.

He is not above the celestails or PF

Originally posted by Molecule man
just because he did those things as a kid doesn't mean he will be more powerful as an adult. I think he is more powerful as a kid.

He is not above the celestails or PF

He was blockin himself from using full powers, he did those thing without achiveing his true powers. And is logicall, like human is much much stronger as an adult as 3 yeas old kid.

Reed's got all these power inhibitors set up all over the place to keep his power in check until he learns to control it. If those weren't their, his nightmares, dreams, or thoughts could destroy everyone on earth.

No he was able to overload those devices which blocked his powers.

Stop talking about full potential, I could say the same thing about MM that if he reached his full potential he could be the most powerful beings in MU.

He is just a mutant and High Evo created a device which caused all mutants powerless including FR.

Besides isn't FR currently powerless burnt himself out?

Originally posted by Sentry
Reed's got all these power inhibitors set up all over the place to keep his power in check until he learns to control it. If those weren't their, his nightmares, dreams, or thoughts could destroy everyone on earth.
Inhibitors could control his powers that shows he can be controlled(his powers).

Why did the Phoenix force choose mutants as it's avatar's? Because mutants are evolved human beings. Same as Franklin. Franklin is above MM in imo.

Originally posted by Sentry
Why did the Phoenix force choose mutants as it's avatar's? Because mutants are evolved human beings. Same as Franklin. Franklin is above MM in imo.
Am not arguing with anybody lol

Am just saying Frank is not in the league with Eternity.

I don't care about MM

Cool

Originally posted by kgkg
Am not arguing with anybody lol

Am just saying Frank is not in the league with Eternity.

I don't care about MM

I agree.

Originally posted by Molecule man
No he was able to overload those devices which blocked his powers.

Stop talking about full potential, I could say the same thing about MM that if he reached his full potential he could be the most powerful beings in MU.

He is just a mutant and High Evo created a device which caused all mutants powerless including FR.

Besides isn't FR currently powerless burnt himself out?

No, MM poetnial wasn't even never mentined as Richards, he was never seen close pwoeful as Richards, he could never achive to be most pwoerful being in MU, he is not close to Richards pwoer and Richards would make out of MM a joke.

Cube Beings are no match for Celestial. (they claimed that Celestial are too much for cubes)

If Frank at full power is greater than the celestials than MM has no chance of winning.

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
there's no real difference. PF doesnt act without its avatars, its avatars are the Phoenix (as in, the PF made sentient). They are phoenixes by mutation, like Jean Grey. The PF isn't a sentient force on its own except by drawing the life force from unborn generations in the future. Thats why it uses avatars.

Actually, the Phoenix Force is aware of itself, and it can act independently of an avatar. It just doesn't.

isn't FR currently powerless???

Evolve human beings more powerful than cosmic beings? LOL

Originally posted by Molecule man
isn't FR currently powerless???

Evolve human beings more powerful than cosmic beings? LOL

If FR is really example of humans in far future, then humans would rule the MU.

mutants not humans like us

No, actully humans would suppsoedly evolve, so we would all be mutants, but that goes for humans in MU.

before humans evolve to mutants we all be dead lol

a big meteor hits earth and all human dies and a new race will show up...

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Actually, the Phoenix Force is aware of itself, and it can act independently of an avatar. It just doesn't.

it became aware of itself. It doesnt act independently of avatars because as I said that means draining future generations of life. I know it can be sentient independent of its avatars.

Besides, its avatars aren't separate from it. Its avatars are inextricably linked to it, they are the phoenix made flesh. We are told that Jean's spirit is carved out of the PF and that metaphysically she is a phoenix for example.

has anyone ever read the 'what if' comic, when the high evolutionary causes everyone to evolve. They all become really powerful, like franklin, and become a uni-mind, like how the eternals did. They then leave Earth and basically destroy the galaxy, by beating down galactus, all the celestials and i think some abstracts.

moleculeman, eternity is an abstract, have you ever seen eternity make another universe{give eternity as much prep and full power}, before you and kgkg start makin jokes about humans being nowhere near abstract level, maybe u should look at the goddam evidence,

So you can't really defend FR can you about him being the most powerful save LT!

the most living tribunal has ever done physically is that he destroyed a universe or two at one time without straining himself, frankin at his CURRENT POTENTIAL created a whole string of universe and explored them without even having knowledge that they were indeed his creations, now compare that with ANYTHING ANY1 HAS DONE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE, i can guaruntee you that youl find only 3 examples{or 4} of sum1 exceeding that, 1:the beyonder{who was beyond the multiverse} 2: thanos with THOTU{where he destroyed the entire multiverse} 3: TOAA{speaks for itself}.

Originally posted by Molecule man
before humans evolve to mutants we all be dead lol

a big meteor hits earth and all human dies and a new race will show up...

Well I think in MU, there are beigns (mutans) who would prevent Asteroid to hit the Earth.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the most living tribunal has ever done physically is that he destroyed a universe or two at one time without straining himself, frankin at his CURRENT POTENTIAL created a whole string of universe and explored them without even having knowledge that they were indeed his creations, now compare that with ANYTHING ANY1 HAS DONE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE, i can guaruntee you that youl find only 3 examples{or 4} of sum1 exceeding that, 1:the beyonder{who was beyond the multiverse} 2: thanos with THOTU{where he destroyed the entire multiverse} 3: TOAA{speaks for itself}.

beyonder's been nerfed

Jean has healed the entire multiverse, the nexus of all realities, she's held a galaxy in the palm of her hand. I'd say it would be close.

also, he creates "pocket" universes.

isn't FR currently powerless???

just because LT haven't done some more amazing feats doens't mean he is less powerful he was the only one able to withstand the power of IG

Once again FR is just a mutant

all im saying is that the pheonix force has not done nearly as mutch as even kid franklin has done.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
all im saying is that the pheonix force has not done nearly as mutch as even kid franklin has done.

again, the phoenix force doesn't do anything (its an unconscious force), the phoenix does, the phoenix is the force made sentient, which usually means its avatars.

PF is a universal force way beyond any mutants

You can actually kill FR but not PF

correction he only created a POCKET UNIVERSE ONCE, on his first time, but it was nonetheless a universe, any universe after that, he created full sized.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the most living tribunal has ever done physically is that he destroyed a universe or two at one time without straining himself, frankin at his CURRENT POTENTIAL created a whole string of universe and explored them without even having knowledge that they were indeed his creations, now compare that with ANYTHING ANY1 HAS DONE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE, i can guaruntee you that youl find only 3 examples{or 4} of sum1 exceeding that, 1:the beyonder{who was beyond the multiverse} 2: thanos with THOTU{where he destroyed the entire multiverse} 3: TOAA{speaks for itself}.

Now lets straight this up, to make it also clear for you. FR can never be, with his true power beyond LT or equal. LT what he said, his pwoer come form on-high being, that is even above him, TOAA has given pwoers to LT to be protected by anything (but still power that are bellow TOAA), no matter what and to judge, FR woud be uselles as IG was. THOTU was basically equal to GOD in pwoer, he could do whatever he wanted to do (he is the same,let's say to Bruce Almighty, you know the movie, Bruce Almighty could do everything he wanted to do, everything, except control will of othrs, but otherwise was equal to God in powers, but God was above him, beacuse he gave him powers, the same is with THOTU, he could do everything as TOAA could, but TOAA is sill above him) and LT is not protected by pwoers that is equal to TOAA, so that is why LT was destroyed, but could never by even in danger by Richards. And Beyodner was alawys faker.

If you use a gun and shot FR in the head then he is dead still a body but PF doesn't

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
beyonder's been nerfed

Jean has healed the entire multiverse, the nexus of all realities, she's held a galaxy in the palm of her hand. I'd say it would be close.

also, he creates "pocket" universes.

I think Jean healed entire universe not multiverse.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I think Jean healed entire universe not multiverse.

m'kraan crystal is the nexus of all realities... it holds the multiverse together... from what i know

PF>FR period

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
m'kraan crystal is the nexus of all realities... it holds the multiverse together... from what i know

I am not sure, but I know that M'Krann crystal was insanely pwoerful force, even above PF.

what I don't get is how a genetic mutation grants one the power to create universes.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I am not sure, but I know that M'Krann crystal was insanely pwoerful force, even above PF.

yea, and Jean/Phoenix healed it. also, she resides there when she dies and is waiting to be reborn.

PF can't be destroyed, excpet if LT judges so or TOAA. But I don't know, FR create his own universe, he can reshape it creating his own, and there are his rules and there he could judge PF to be gone. But PF would be probably reborn in other universe or he would puch her out of existnve for all time.

FR judge PF it would be the other way around.

Shot FR in his head and he is dead!!!

And you were right, M'Krann is nexus of all dimensons, realites, it's actully interdimensional nexus, so therefore all dimensions, realities are nexus to this one to, interdimensional, and therefore it would cause all universe to fall into darkness.

Originally posted by Molecule man
FR judge PF it would be the other way around.

Shot FR in his head and he is dead!!!

You cannot judge to FR in his own universe.

i bet LT could.

PF could just destroy his pocket universe and kill him

Originally posted by Superherovandal
i bet LT could.

LT could, becuase he judges to all mulitverse, he could judge FR from outside of FR universe and would destroy it, if FR Universe would cause imbalance, so he would judge it from outside and would destroy it, like he could do to all other universe. But PF probably wouldn't be able to do nothing.

Originally posted by Xplosive
LT could, becuase he judges to all mulitverse, he could judge FR from outside of FR universe and would destroy it, if FR Universe would cause imbalance, so he would judge it from outside and would destroy it, like he could do to all other universe. But PF probably wouldn't be able to do nothing.

I guess its pretty much a draw... FR cant really do anything to the phoenix, its a multiversal force made sentient ... usually in the form of an avatar, the PF made flesh.

not a draw FR could do anything to the PF but the PF could easily kill FR!

remember that he got killed by the sentinels in a alternative timeline, some might say that it doesn't count but if he could get killed by the sentinels then PF...

exactly, an alternate reality where he was not nearly as powerful as 616 franklin.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW A GENETIC MUTATION CAUSES A KID TO BE ABLE TO CREATE UNIVERSES UNDER HIS OWN POWER!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Superherovandal
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW A GENETIC MUTATION CAUSES A KID TO BE ABLE TO CREATE UNIVERSES UNDER HIS OWN POWER!!!!!!!!!

No one could tell you that, we don't even know how Cyclops can shoot from eyes, just because of his genetic mutation, while 99% of mutation are bad. We could only crete universe or to shott laser, if God would give us such powers

That is the biggest piece of crap that Marvel could come up with. I mean a kid creating universes because of a mutation. at least in phoenix's case she got inhabited by a multiversal force.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
That is the biggest piece of crap that Marvel could come up with. I mean a kid creating universes because of a mutation. at least in phoenix's case she got inhabited by a multiversal force.
actually, phoenix is the result of a mutation too.... it wasn't an accident Jean got inhabited by a multiversal force. If you read her backgrounds and the new x-men, her ultimate mutation is the ability to access the phoenix force, and she's been having visions of the phoenix since she was a child. Also, her spirit is "carved" out of the phoenix.

Deep inside, she is a phoenix, thats why in the White Hot Room (the inside of the M'kraan crystal), where you keep meeting yourself... Jean keeps meeting phoenixes, and she's dressed in the White Phoenix of the Crown uniform.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
That is the biggest piece of crap that Marvel could come up with. I mean a kid creating universes because of a mutation. at least in phoenix's case she got inhabited by a multiversal force.

Yes, but that is the case of all mutans, there is really no differnce what they can do, Apocaylpse can increase his power by other extradimeosn sourse, or Richards creating universe or Cyclops shootin beem, it's all the same or Strom controling Earth natural elements, just because of genetic mutation (and she is in contact with Earth just because of mutatiin), it's all the same, only different pwoers. Jean is also the same, PF is force, and it takes the body of Jean, beaucse of her mutation.

a universe? c'mon. so genes allow you to be able to make universes huh?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
That is the biggest piece of crap that Marvel could come up with. I mean a kid creating universes because of a mutation. at least in phoenix's case she got inhabited by a multiversal force.

Well its still better than a solar powered journalist that can move planets

so true

Originally posted by Superherovandal
a universe? c'mon. so genes allow you to be able to make universes huh?

No, they don't allow you, but it also don't allow you to controll the weather.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
a universe? c'mon. so genes allow you to be able to make universes huh?

no more crazy than a mutation that makes you an avatar of the phoenix :shrug:

I thought that it posessed her?

or hiding ur superhero identity from the whole world by wearing glasses and working at the daily planet.

that is because well he is.....................................................Superman.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
I thought that it posessed her?

its not as simple as that. It is her in a sense, it is part of who she is. Its like saying the Green Goblin "possessed" Norman Osborn. except more complicated.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Well its still better than a solar powered journalist that can move planets

Originally posted by Superherovandal
I thought that it posessed her?

It did posses her (PF is differnet entity or force, it's two different things, but beacuse of her mutation PF chosed her), if it wouldn't, Jean would never be so powerful. Only reasnoable power that mutants have, is telepathy, since human brains in reality could be able of telepathy.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Well its still better than a solar powered journalist that can move planets

he can't move planets anymore and no not really it isn't. moving planets is one thing but creating universes on your own is another.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It did posses her (PF is differnet entity or force, it's two different things, but beacuse of her mutation PF chosed her), if it wouldn't, Jean would never be so powerful. Only reasnoable power that mutants have, is telepathy, since human brains in reality could be able of telepathy.

its not so much a possession as an interaction. Neither is passive (Jean, Phoenix Force). They have a special relationship. The PF didn't "choose" consciously to have Jean as an avatar. It wasn't even sentient before Jean contacted it in the shuttle. She unconsciously contacted it because it was part of her being, her mutation.

Marvel sure is realistic with their characters. That's why reading Marvel is better cause it's more realistic! Superheroes are not suppose to be super powerful like that weak ass Superman!

So is DC. I mean, getting struck by lightning would logically give a normal man superspeed, rather than killing him. It happens to everyone.

Originally posted by The Flash
Marvel sure is realistic with their characters. That's why reading Marvel is better cause it's more realistic! Superheroes are not suppose to be super powerful like that weak ass Superman!

if DC was realistic every flash battle would be 2 panels

just like on this forum, every flash battle goes "OK, so flash moves at a trillion gazillion miles per hour and knocks out opponent in .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds"

yeah and I am sure that a glove will give one the ability to nearly destroy the universe. I mean last time i got one i killed 1,000,000,000 with 1 slap.

DC is not suppose to be realistic! That's why I read Marvel! I like totally relate to the character and the super powers are not over powered like that boyscout Superman and that slow as hell Flash. Running fast! What kind of a lame ass power is that?

yeah in reality if one person who could create a universe faced a bad guy he could beat him before he said his insidious evil plan.

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
its not so much a possession as an interaction. Neither is passive (Jean, Phoenix Force). They have a special relationship. The PF didn't "choose" consciously to have Jean as an avatar. It wasn't even sentient before Jean contacted it in the shuttle. She unconsciously contacted it because it was part of her being, her mutation.

It wasn't sentient beaucse it's force. PF can leave Jean Grey whenever it wants. She is not possesed (like you said, it's ineteraction), she actully was possed when she became Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
yeah in reality if one person who could create a universe faced a bad guy he could beat him before he said his insidious evil plan. I can totally relate to that!

Originally posted by The Flash
DC is not suppose to be realistic! That's why I read Marvel! I like totally relate to the character and the super powers are not over powered like that boyscout Superman and that slow as hell Flash. Running fast! What kind of a lame ass power is that?

your sarcasm needs work
marvel characters are definitely more interesting, you got that right except for batman, batman kicks ass.

also the regular marvel characters are not nearly as powerful as the regular DC characters... all the powerful marvel chars end up underused like Silver Surfer or continually killed off/inhibiting herself like Jean Grey.

I know huh! I'm just pissed off that DC's over powered loser Superman can defeat Magneto, Iceman, Franklin Richards, Jean Grey and Cable.

like magneto i mean creating black holes isn't that weak compared to superspeed. thats prolly why he is in comics so much.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It wasn't sentient beaucse it's force. PF can leave Jean Grey whenever it wants. She is not possesed (like you said, it's ineteraction), she actully was possed when she became Dark Phoenix.
yea as Dark Phoenix she was possessed and also a little insane.

but youre mistaken when you say "PF can leave Jean Grey whenever it wants.". Their relationship simply isn't like that, and the phoenix force isn't a person who decides things. Its unconscious. The Phoenix is the Phoenix Force with a collective consciousness (of its avatars). Jean Grey is part of that collective.

This argument is trivial.

Marvel isn't realistic. DC isn't realistic. Comic books aren't realistic, damnit. That's why we read them; to escape this shitty "reality" thing for 5-10 minutes.

Originally posted by The Flash
I know huh! I'm just pissed off that DC's over powered loser Superman can defeat Magneto, Iceman, Franklin Richards, Jean Grey and Cable.

Foolass.

Originally posted by The Flash
I know huh! I'm just pissed off that DC's over powered loser Superman can defeat Magneto, Iceman, Franklin Richards, Jean Grey and Cable.

Who say Suerpman could beat Richards or Jean Grey.

Marvel is soooo realistic. I can relate to the character. Why do you think DC made Hal Jordan have realistic problems? That's right, because Marvel was kicking DC's ass in sales!

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
yea as Dark Phoenix she was possessed and also a little insane.

but youre mistaken when you say "PF can leave Jean Grey whenever it wants.". Their relationship simply isn't like that, and the phoenix force isn't a person who decides things. Its unconscious. The Phoenix is the Phoenix Force with a collective consciousness (of its avatars). Jean Grey is part of that collective.

Actully it can leave her, it existed before and without Jean, so it can leave her, PF was also with Rachel Summers, but Jean Grey was stronger of avatars.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Who say Suerpman could beat Richards or Jean Grey. Didn't you know that DC makes their characters soooooo over powerful that it kills the realism? Superman is their number one guy, so he has to be more powerful than all those regular Marvel characters.

No they aren't. Big green monsters aren't realistic. Neither are sillver aliens that ride surfboards. Marvel's characters are easier to relate to because for the most part, they have realistic personalities, not realistic powers.

No shit, Sherlock. Why do you think I've been saying I related to the character?

Originally posted by The Flash
Didn't you know that DC makes their characters soooooo over powerful that it kills the realism? Superman is their number one guy, so he has to be more powerful than all those regular Marvel characters.

I know that very good, but Superman is really nothing to Richards or Phoenix. Superman had real trouble with Hulk, Hulk even knocked him into space. Marvel cahrcates are just more interesting that is it.

You're really acting like a major fanboy with the sarcasm, Flash. You prefer DC to Marvel, and that's understandable, but there has to be an extent. You're not even defending a character now, you're just preaching hatred.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Actully it can leave her, it existed before and without Jean, so it can leave her, PF was also with Rachel Summers, but Jean Grey was stronger of avatars.

The Phoenix Force existed before Jean, yes. The Phoenix did not. They aren't the same exact thing.

anyway, here are some images from Phoenix Endsong clarifying what I mean, I hope: Possible Spoilers
















http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/JoshuaChayne/SONG1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/JoshuaChayne/SONG2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/JoshuaChayne/SONG3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/JoshuaChayne/SONG12.jpg

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
You're really acting like a major fanboy with the sarcasm, Flash. You prefer DC to Marvel, and that's understandable, but there has to be an extent. You're not even defending a character, you're just preaching hatred now. Yes, hatred for DC!

true.
cable or phoenix would wipe their asses with his cape

he's right flash.

Where did I ever show hate for Marvel? All I'm hating on is DC.

It's actully the same, beaucse of PF there is Phoenix, beaucse of PF Jean became Phoenix and so powerful. PF can just leave her, but it won't beacuse they are somehow part, beacuse of her mutation, and that is it, he can leave her, it does not depen on Jean.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It's actully the same, beaucse of PF there is Phoenix, beaucse of PF Jean became Phoenix and so powerful. PF can just leave her, but it won't beacuse they are somehow part, beacuse of her mutation, and that is it, he can leave her, it does not depen on Jean.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree... but anyway, one last time, the PF can't "leave" her, because it doesnt make decisions. Its an unconscious universal force that is part of her.

Its like the "Force" in Star Wars, it doesnt say "aha, Anakin, I'm going to leave you! I dont like you anymore!" and just like the star wars force, the PF can have multiple avatars.

It is also a part of certain other people who have the phoenix mutation, such as Rachel. As you can see in the pictures, the Phoenix and Jean are the same person, and when the Phoenix goes into Emma's body (to be close to Scott, because subconsciously Jean still wants to be with him), Jean says "enough" and yanks herself out.

PF is a symbiote much like Venom. One is as vital to the other one. The PF needs an telepathic host....to give it a "mind" of its own so do speak and experience sensations through the host; In return, the host is given unimagineable power BUT too much power can be deadly to both the PF and host. Too much power will drive the host insane and too much insanity will cause the PF to become destructive as it thrives on new sensations. We don't really know the full aspect of the Phoenix force but seeing what she can do when she's mad.....pray to God it doesn't happen again. The PF has always been with Jean, even when she didn't have access to it, it was still there but dormant. It was part of her mutation.

Originally posted by jffxex1980
PF is a symbiote much like Venom. One is as vital to the other one. The PF needs an telepathic host....to give it a "mind" of its own so do speak and experience sensations through the host; In return, the host is given unimagineable power BUT too much power can be deadly to both the PF and host. Too much power will drive the host insane and too much insanity will cause the PF to become destructive as it thrives on new sensations. We don't really know the full aspect of the Phoenix force but seeing what she can do when she's mad.....pray to God it doesn't happen again. The PF has always been with Jean, even when she didn't have access to it, it was still there but dormant. It was part of her mutation.

exactly, I would say the exact relationship isn't clear, but what is clear is that phoenix/jean grey are inseparable from each other, the phoenix has other avatars, of course, but she is and always will be the phoenix, its part of her mutation.

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree... but anyway, one last time, the PF can't "leave" her, because it doesnt make decisions. Its an unconscious universal force that is part of her.

Its like the "Force" in Star Wars, it doesnt say "aha, Anakin, I'm going to leave you! I dont like you anymore!" and just like the star wars force, the PF can have multiple avatars.

It is also a part of certain other people who have the phoenix mutation, such as Rachel. As you can see in the pictures, the Phoenix and Jean are the same person, and when the Phoenix goes into Emma's body (to be close to Scott, because subconsciously Jean still wants to be with him), Jean says "enough" and yanks herself out.

Actully Force in Star Wars can leave, it choses, Lucas said that, Force chosed Obi-wan as favorite, you know, that is why he never dies, not luck,y but like Lucas said, beacuse of luck, in Episode III, Force abandon Anakin, that is why Obi-Wan wins. Anyway, Venom can leave it's host, but it doens't want it. Jean Grey will always be the Phoenix, but if PF leaves her, she will be Phoenix, but you won't see aymore fierybird around her.

franklin richards is uberly powerful, everyone has already mentioned his feats as a child so i won't go into them.

but the phoenix force? no way is franklin more powerful than the phoenix force. i would put the hierarchy like this:

toaa
LT
eternity infinity death
phoenix force oblivion
true beyonders franklin

plus, i think it's cool that marvel has super powerful humans. it's a cool concept that humans have such amazing unlocked potential.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
franklin richards is uberly powerful, everyone has already mentioned his feats as a child so i won't go into them.

but the phoenix force? no way is franklin more powerful than the phoenix force. i would put the hierarchy like this:

toaa
LT
eternity infinity death
phoenix force oblivion
true beyonders franklin

plus, i think it's cool that marvel has super powerful humans. it's a cool concept that humans have such amazing unlocked potential.
true beyonders you mean before pre-recon.?

i mean the beings that inhabit the dimension that fuels cosmic cubes. they are apparently so alien in nature that they can't even visit are dimension, because it would violate all logic.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
i mean the beings that inhabit the dimension that fuels cosmic cubes. they are apparently so alien in nature that they can't even visit are dimension, because it would violate all logic.
kosmos? that took the form of beyonder etc.

Beyonder before he became fake was a badass even higher than LT.

Originally posted by kgkg
kosmos? that took the form of beyonder etc.

Beyonder before he became fake was a badass even higher than LT.

But we only thought he was higher than LT, but he was deciving everyone with his illusions. Every almighty pwoered that showed, it was only thought, but it wasn't even a little finger ot LT powers.

He is talking about the race of Beyonders...they are the ones who created the Beyonder and all the cosmic cubes. They easily surpass the PF ...they also Surpass LT as far as I can tell...They are a race of beings, created outside of and before the multiverse. Basically directly beneath TOAA in the hierarchy.