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We have:

Franklin Richards
Scarlet Witch
Proteus
Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddock

Who takes it?

Discuss

i think you basically put them in descending order, power-wise

wow, didnt actually realise till now

Im not sure if Scarlet Witches powers are grater than Proteus'.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not sure if Scarlet Witches powers are grater than Proteus'.

U sure?

Having read read Uncanny #462, I think an answer might be forthcoming.

Scarlet Witch's power by itself isn't greater than Franklin Richards. What makes it so powerful is its interaction with Magneto's powers.

Anyway, I'd put it in this order:

Scarlet Witch + Magneto (multiversal scale)
Franklin Richards (universal scale)
Jim Jaspers (multi-planetary scale)
Scarlet Witch (planetary scale)
Proteus - Final Form (sub-planetary scale, mainly warping of existing reality, rather than creation of new reality)
Jaime Braddock (sub-planetary scale - editing of "dense" objects only)
Mikhail Rasputin (just thought I'd throw him in - molecular manipulation of reality, but limited to conception. If he can't conceive of an object, like the "human soul", he can't manipulate it)
Proteus - Original Form (area scale - limited to line of sight and mainly warping of existing reality)

Franklin Richards is more powerful than SW. This is SW on her won not with daddy Demi. Also Odins battles and even Molecule mans battleshave had effects which were felt across the multiverse but they dont have multiversal power, theyre not multiversal beings.

I wouldnt say SW and Magneto have multiversal power at all Demi. Maybe the affects can be felt across but she cant start actively warping the structure of reality of the entire multiverse.

Id say Franklin Richards
Jim Jaspers
SW (now house of m has started)
Proteus
Jamie Braddock.

You forgot The Doctor....hehe.

Haven't read House of M enough to place SW, but Franklin was thought to be on par with the Celestials at one point. That alone speaks volumes, and he'd be the highest on that list (except perhaps for current SW, but like I said I don't know).

The Doctor is a reality-warper on at least a universal level (a former Doctor said, without pause or doubt, that the evil Doctor could de-create the universe if he wanted to and concentrated hard enough). And he's jumped dimensions plenty of times, so it might go beyond that as well. He'd give anyone on that list a run for their money. That;s my little addition to the reality-warping list.

-DM

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Franklin Richards is more powerful than SW. This is SW on her won not with daddy Demi. Also Odins battles and even Molecule mans battleshave had effects which were felt across the multiverse but they dont have multiversal power, theyre not multiversal beings.

I wouldnt say SW and Magneto have multiversal power at all Demi. Maybe the affects can be felt across but she cant start actively warping the structure of reality of the entire multiverse.

Id say Franklin Richards
Jim Jaspers
SW (now house of m has started)
Proteus
Jamie Braddock.

I ranked SW with and without Magneto, so I have that covered already. I agree that Odin and MM aren't multiversal beings, however, they've never altered the multiverse. SWM have - the latest Uncanny shows the entire multiverse being thrown out of whack - you can tell because there are different versions of different characters being thrown asunder. Roma said there could come dimensional convergence from what's happening, where all realities (universes) collide and destroy everything (***everything***). And this is just as a side effect. SWM aren't even focusing on changing the multiverse. Imagine if Thanos had their power and DID want to change the multiverse. You really think he couldn't?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You forgot The Doctor....hehe.

Haven't read House of M enough to place SW, but Franklin was thought to be on par with the Celestials at one point. That alone speaks volumes, and he'd be the highest on that list (except perhaps for current SW, but like I said I don't know).

The Doctor is a reality-warper on at least a universal level (a former Doctor said, without pause or doubt, that the evil Doctor could de-create the universe if he wanted to and concentrated hard enough). And he's jumped dimensions plenty of times, so it might go beyond that as well. He'd give anyone on that list a run for their money. That;s my little addition to the reality-warping list.

-DM

Yeah, hadn't thought beyond the Marvel Universe. I'm sure there are really powerful reality warpers in other comic series too. I'd love to see a Doctor gauntlet against the guys on this list.

Franklin Richards IS on par with a Celestial, and his reality warping on the same scale they have. However, one glaring limitation of Celestial power is the ability to move through dimensions or time. They are actually unable to do so, so their reality warping is limited to universal scale. Franklin's greatest feat was creating counter-earth. I have faith that he can get up to universal scale, but SWM casually -- accidentally, even -- changed the entire multiverse. The only things SWM have been unable to touch are the White Hot Room and the Omniversal Majestrix. But I don't believe even the latter would be safe from a focused effort, given how Jamie Braddock was able to invade the realm. That puts SWM's HoM above any Marvel feats we've ever previously seen.

Originally posted by demigawd
I ranked SW with and without Magneto, so I have that covered already. I agree that Odin and MM aren't multiversal beings, however, they've never altered the multiverse. SWM have - the latest Uncanny shows the entire multiverse being thrown out of whack - you can tell because there are different versions of different characters being thrown asunder. Roma said there could come dimensional convergence from what's happening, where all realities (universes) collide and destroy everything (***everything***). And this is just as a side effect. SWM aren't even focusing on changing the multiverse. Imagine if Thanos had their power and DID want to change the multiverse. You really think he couldn't?

Its still just speculation Demi thats the crux of the matter. MMs battles and Odins battles effected the multiverse as a side effect but they sure as hell couldnt start recreating its structure if they focused on it. Also range doesnt equal potency.

How is it speculation? They specifically said it was affecting "everything". They specifically showed different universes, different realities colliding. It ain't speculation if they're showing it, silly.

And Odin and MM, while they've created "rumbles" in different dimensions, they've NEVER specifically ALTERED other universes. No exploding stars, no removed characters, nothing other than Earth 324 Dr. Strange saying, "Something is afoot!". There's a clear difference between the two, GS.

I'd argue that range is a HUGE part of potency. They've changed the entire multiverse and everybody in it. That's pretty damn potent. It's more potent than any previous feat we've seen. It's a more potent on-panel feat than we've seen even your precious Phoenix attain.

Originally posted by demigawd
How is it speculation? They specifically said it was affecting "everything". They specifically showed different universes, different realities colliding. It ain't speculation if they're showing it, silly.

And Odin and MM, while they've created "rumbles" in different dimensions, they've NEVER specifically ALTERED other universes. No exploding stars, no removed characters, nothing other than Earth 324 Dr. Strange saying, "Something is afoot!". There's a clear difference between the two, GS.

I'd argue that range is a HUGE part of potency. They've changed the entire multiverse and everybody in it. That's pretty damn potent. It's more potent than any previous feat we've seen. It's a more potent on-panel feat than we've seen even your precious Phoenix attain.

Not so Demi im afraid. On panel my dear Phoenix held the multiverse together by negating the effects of the M'kraan crystal which was causing i quote "total disruption of the nuclear and gravimetric lines of force that bind all matter together" In essence all reality across the multiverse was being wiped out and on panel my "precious phoenix" held all of that matter together and contained this force. So Demi lets not get ahead of ourselves, the magnus duo are good but not that good.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not so Demi im afraid. On panel my dear Phoenix held the multiverse together by negating the effects of the M'kraan crystal which was causing i quote "total disruption of the nuclear and gravimetric lines of force that bind all matter together" In essence all reality across the multiverse was being wiped out and on panel my "precious phoenix" held all of that matter together and contained this force. So Demi lets not get ahead of ourselves, the magnus duo are good but not that good.

First, congratulations on finally using the quick quote feature, lol.

Secondly, Phoenix didn't "bind the multiverse" under her own power. She repaired the M'Kraan crystal, which itself binds the multiverse. A dam containing a raging river is leaking. I fixed that dam. Does that mean that I can contain a raging river? No, and it doesn't suggest I have the power to, either. All it means is that I'm handy with some concrete spackle and an industrial sander. Ditto with Phoenix fixing the M'Kraan Crystal. Additionally, she was unable to do it on her own without being absorbed into it. She didn't have the power to resist the M'Kraan crystal herself, so she relied on humanity to do it by anchoring herself to them.

HoM, on the other hand, are inadvertently converging all realities themselves. They're circumventing the M'Kraan Crystal entirely. They're not just fiddling with the dam like Phoenix did...they ARE the dam.

That puts their feat above anything Phoenix has done on panel.

Originally posted by demigawd
First, congratulations on finally using the quick quote feature, lol.

Secondly, Phoenix didn't "bind the multiverse" under her own power. She repaired the M'Kraan crystal, which itself binds the multiverse. A dam containing a raging river is leaking. I fixed that dam. Does that mean that I can contain a raging river? No, and it doesn't suggest I have the power to, either. All it means is that I'm handy with some concrete spackle and an industrial sander. Ditto with Phoenix fixing the M'Kraan Crystal. Additionally, she was unable to do it on her own without being absorbed into it. She didn't have the power to resist the M'Kraan crystal herself, so she relied on humanity to do it by anchoring herself to them.

HoM, on the other hand, are inadvertently converging all realities themselves. They're circumventing the M'Kraan Crystal entirely. They're not just fiddling with the dam like Phoenix did...they ARE the dam.

That puts their feat above anything Phoenix has done on panel.

If they are causing realities to converge then they are not the so called dam they are the leak in the dam. The dam is the M'kraan crystal. Legion created a similar effect by changing time and making it so that jean didnt become phoenix.

On panel phoenix in an excalibur flashback joined all the different universe of the multiverse together by projecting a doorway through the entire multiverse. On panel Phoenix manipulated the molecules of an entire universe, amputated an undesired future and then healed the universe with her energies. Causing realitys in the multiverse to collide is very impressive but its as a result of their unrefined tamperings. It is not a conscious effort. Big difference.

Basically compare their amature tamperings to a fat handed, clumsy cousin trying to play jenga. Whats the result going to be? House of M.

Give it a few issues and we'll find out who's really behind all of this.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If they are causing realities to converge then they are not the so called dam they are the leak in the dam. The dam is the M'kraan crystal. Legion created a similar effect by changing time and making it so that jean didnt become phoenix.


They're not just the leak...they're the sledgehammer for the dam. And they're not just destroying it, they're remaking it, so they're dam builders, too. Except they're building it with their own power.



She did that to view different universes. That's a Watcher-level feat at best. The Omniversal Majestrix does the same thing all the time. She didn't make any alterations to it, so it's not as impressive.



That's nice, but it's only universal in scope. HoM altered the past, the present and the future of the multiverse. It's greater in scope and power than just altering the future of a single universe.



I'd argue that the fact that one can casually unmake the multiverse from unrefined tamperings is actually MORE impressive than making a conscious effort to do it. Here they are, not even trying and yet the entire multiverse is coming apart at the seams. Imagine if they TRIED to remake the multiverse. They're not, because it's not within the scope of what they're trying to do. But as demonstrated, it's certainly within their power.



Fair enough. Let's make a slight modification to that analogy. Your fat-handed clumsy cousin is trying to do the Electric Slide, trips, falls through your brick wall, and collapses your entire house in the process. Clumsy? Yes. Accidental? Absolutely. EXTREMELY powerful display? Without question. Evidence that your cousin possesses the power to break through your brick wall at any time if he were committed to doing so? You'd be silly to argue otherwise.



I have a suspicion, but that person would only be the architect, not the power source. The feat would remain. To keep with the analogy, it would be as if Mastermind were revealed to have mind-controlled your cousin into doing the Electric Slide through your brick wall. Mastermind's instructions, but still your cousin's power. It doesn't take away from his oafish might.

Phoenix isn't on the list guys Like Supes she is getting in to many threads so lets look at this.
Jim Jaspers is awesome, lets go back in time to my youth and the days of Marvel Superheroes (UK) with "Dez Skinn" and Captain Britain magazine (it wasn't called a comic at the time in the UK).
Entering the T.A.R.D.I.S we set the "flux capacitor" to 1981 (i think) and find Jimmy J. Altering reality bigtime as I remember and remember ("Timelords", like myself are very old compared to you humans) that it took the destruction of his whole dimension to kill him in dimension 238. The other Jimmy J's do not seem as powerful if its the first and greatest Jimmy J he takes it totally. His powers seems to be able to operate on the whole of a universe not just a small area of spacetime

Keep the faith

Know Jimmy J has a badass moustache like Zebedee

Stay Whirly

And yet...he got owned by the Fury, who is about on the level of Nimrod.

Jimmy J designed the original Fury and the original Jimmy J and Fury where way above what you see now

Don't judge on anything but Earth 238

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

ok, well, I'll just stay out of the Jimmy J debate since I'd be in way over my head. UK peeps know him MUCH better than us Yanks. Besides, I ranked him just under Franklin Richards. You'd put him above Franklin?

Originally posted by demigawd
ok, well, I'll just stay out of the Jimmy J debate since I'd be in way over my head. UK peeps know him MUCH better than us Yanks. Besides, I ranked him just under Franklin Richards. You'd put him above Franklin?

The original and the original fury are off the scale

Alan Moore wrote the early stuff with Alan Davis Genius

The Fury Killed Earth 238 Miracleman which is impossible

The Fury at that time was almost unbeatable

The whole of the 238 Dimension had to go to stop Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!A whole Universe, he was on that scale!!!!!

Keep the faith Stay 238

Stay Whirly

wow, that's pretty uber. What's Jim's greatest reality-warping feat? Franklin's is creating an entire alternate planet, perhaps universe because there was a Galactus and Surfer that Franklin created, too.

Originally posted by demigawd
wow, that's pretty uber. What's Jim's greatest reality-warping feat? Franklin's is creating an entire alternate planet, perhaps universe because there was a Galactus and Surfer that Franklin created, too.

He held a whole eart timeline back so that he could control the populace, he kept the entire universe in a primitive stat The multiversal judges who decided to 238 should be destroyed said within 238 his power was "limitless". Which means in the 238 Universe he was potentially God

They destroyed the universe to stop his spread to other Universes, he was more powerful than the 616 counterpart.

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Interesting. ok, so "Whirly Jim Jaspers" is above Franklin and just below SWM.

Originally posted by demigawd
Interesting. ok, so "Whirly Jim Jaspers" is above Franklin and just below SWM.

I think his above the Scarlet Witch

franklin has created complete universeS without even knowing, simultaneously and without any loss of power. he is above em all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
franklin has created complete universeS without even knowing, simultaneously and without any loss of power. he is above em all.

Franklin is

Jaime Braddock wins

It's between Jamie and MJJ. The others are of no consequence.

Is this a battle???

If so nobody wins!!!

The amout of reality warping that would take place in this battle would drive everyone insane.

Originally posted by guy222
Franklin is

Jaime Braddock wins

Thanks for bumping this thread guy222, it's enlightening to the extreme. All I can say is wow! Just wow!

So that's Pre crisis Whirly?

.........And people think i'm him?

Wow....

Thanks guys!!

Although his grammar and spelling are shit!!