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Discuss.

I pick Zod. Adam's an idiot. All you have to do is have him say Shazam, and poof he turns back into weakling. He says it quite a lot cuz he hates the guy. Battle wise their both similar in strength, but I think Zod is a little more durable, kinda like Shazam and Superman. Zod takes it 7 out of 10.

I say its a toss up. Zod may be more durable, but Black Adam is more ruthless and more cunning.

Good fight.

Zod probably has the same magical vunerablity then Superman has...Black Adam could weak him with the lighting. Similar to the thing that Captain Marvel did on Kingdom Come.

Why are everybody calling him "Shazam", By the way? Isn't Shazam the guy who gave him the powers?

Shazam shares His powers with others and they all activate it the same way although Shazam has been said to be a genie but im not sure if thats the same Shazam.

Zod has the same vulnerabilities as Superman, but has the extra layer of armor to help protect him (constructed for him on an alternate-timeline Krypton). Also, Black Adam isn't any more ruthless or smart than Zod. Zod's a general, and an evil one at that. His whole life revolves around battle tactics. Zod broke Superman's jaw with a single punch...Black Adam is in similar trouble. Zod 7/10.

-DM

I'm not callimg him Shazam, that's his weakness. Like Mxyxyplix, have him say the WORD Shazam, poof he changes back into his normal form. Then he usually gets subdued or gets his a$$ kicked before he can change back. He's an idiot. He says it quite a lot.

Black Adam Wins

Adam is not a dumbass. Hes not going to get tricked into saying Shazam. He has the wisdom of Zehuti (Thoth) so there is not going to be any tricking going on here. Zob probably won't know that he has to say the word in order to turn back and IF he does say it Adam can always dodge the lightening.

I think BA wins this

Black Adam wins 7/10

indeed Black Adam is no Dumbass but nonetheless I'm sayin Zod on this one

what would happen if black adam charged his fists up with magic like he did with SBP

ask a writer and he'll write it

:-P

Bump

This is a good fight, Both of these characters are equal in strength, invunerability (although i believe zod to have more invunerability against physical attacks, if only slightly more), and ruthlessness. However black adam has some magical powers that could prove to undo Zod. On the other hand black adam can only achieve superSONIC speed which is many times faster than the speed of sound. Zod is on superman's speed lvl which is manytimes faster than the speed of LIGHT. Depending on the attack, i believe zod would be able to dodge many of adam's magical attacks. Also Zod's senses are much greater than Black Adams. I'm gonna have to give this one to Zod 6/10....barley

Originally posted by Tank_6603
This is a good fight, Both of these characters are equal in strength, invunerability (although i believe zod to have more invunerability against physical attacks, if only slightly more), and ruthlessness. However black adam has some magical powers that could prove to undo Zod. On the other hand black adam can only achieve superSONIC speed which is many times faster than the speed of sound. Zod is on superman's speed lvl which is manytimes faster than the speed of LIGHT. Depending on the attack, i believe zod would be able to dodge many of adam's magical attacks. Also Zod's senses are much greater than Black Adams. I'm gonna have to give this one to Zod 6/10....barley

WRONG

Black Adam has kept up with Jay Garrick who had to borrow Black Adam's Speed in oder to reach Light Speed. Zob in no way will be able to sense magic. Superman never has shown this feat.

Black Adam Wins

Originally posted by Milkie
WRONG

Black Adam has kept up with Jay Garrick who had to borrow Black Adam's Speed in oder to reach Light Speed. Zob in no way will be able to sense magic. Superman never has shown this feat.
hmmm in order to REACH lightspeed or go past it (multiple times)? I still say Zod is faster. While I never said or even implied that zod would be able to sense magic, he could surely move out of the way of a lightning bolt headed his way...






Zod is faster

uh...how fast is Mach 500?? thats how fast BA has been clocked, before he started flagging....

proof:

Lending his speed to the Flash (Jay Garrick), racing with the Flash, being clocked at MACH 500


http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b7697_flash1.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=7cd15_flash3.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=eb1fd_flash4.jpg
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=cfd2f_flash5.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=953b7_flash6.jpg

380,500mph is mach 500.

670,616,629.384mph is the speed of light.

now tell me who's faster?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
uh...how fast is Mach 500?? thats how fast BA has been clocked, before he started flagging....

proof:

Lending his speed to the Flash (Jay Garrick), racing with the Flash, being clocked at MACH 500


http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b7697_flash1.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=7cd15_flash3.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=eb1fd_flash4.jpg
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=cfd2f_flash5.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=953b7_flash6.jpg
It's about 385,000 MPH.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Zod has the same vulnerabilities as Superman, but has the extra layer of armor to help protect him (constructed for him on an alternate-timeline Krypton). Also, Black Adam isn't any more ruthless or smart than Zod. Zod's a general, and an evil one at that. His whole life revolves around battle tactics. Zod broke Superman's jaw with a single punch...Black Adam is in similar trouble. Zod 7/10.

-DM

Originally posted by Tank_6603
380,500mph is mach 500.

670,616,629.384mph is the speed of light.

now tell me who's faster?


just stating how fast he is...but on a side note...has zod ever gone the speed of light? I mean if the flash is faster than superman (equal to Zod) and BA, and their ultimate level of speed is the speed of light, then how can zod go that fast???

Black Adam was banished to the most distant star in the universe and made it back to earth in 5,000 years. The most distant star in the universe is billions of light years away. I'd say that Black Adam can exceed light speed.

Originally posted by Tank_6603
hmmm in order to REACH lightspeed or go past it (multiple times)? I still say Zod is faster. While I never said or even implied that zod would be able to sense magic, he could surely move out of the way of a lightning bolt headed his way...






Zod is faster

Faster is not always better. Black Adam is fast enough to keep up with him. You act like Zod is going to be going is fastest all the freakin time, nobody does that in a brawl like this not even Superman. I never said he would shoot lightning at him. Black Adam CAN'T shoot lightning TOWARDS anybody. He can call upon it and it strikes downward on him. He could grab Zod and place him in the path of it like Captain Marvel did Superman. Black adam rarely uses it anyway and hardly ever does into is Non Powered Form because he does not need to use it cause he could kick Zods ass without it.

he does have magical lighting punches:

http://img135.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b9d9d_spectree2.jpg

Yeah and lets see his freakin armor help him against stuff like that

KA-FRIGGIN'-BOOM!

Black Adam's recent showings throw me off greatly. He looked better than any other hero has against Supes in quite some time and thats including Captain Marvel which boggles my mind. In Infinite Crisis he ripped Amazo's head off without much trouble. Since JSA started in 2001 I believe, Black Adam has been on a new level.

Still, I generally put Superman (and thus Zod) a hair above Shazam's champions on a stat level. Zod is just as ruthless as Adam so it will be different than fighting against Clark however Adam's lightning punches WILL get the win if he uses them.

BA 6/10 based on his recent stuff. Factor in his entire Post Crisis history and I'd say Zod 6/10.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
how can zod go that fast???



see there used to be this planet called krypton............

I put Shazam's Champions a little above the Superfamily. And I think BA would win against ZOD and Supes

Originally posted by D-Block
I put Shazam's Champions a little above the Superfamily.


I'm not sure I still buy into the theory Captain Marvel is Superman's equal much less his superior on a stat basis.

Originally posted by Milkie
WRONG

Black Adam has kept up with Jay Garrick who had to borrow Black Adam's Speed in oder to reach Light Speed. Zob in no way will be able to sense magic. Superman never has shown this feat.
Perfect example of what I mean. Jay Garrick comments that Adam's muscles begin to give out at Mach 500. In Flash #209, Superman races Wally West at 2000 miles per second. Both of these issues were written by one person. Granted Adam did well against Superman recently but then again, I would have loved to see what the result of that moon busting punch would have been.

I know what your talkin about but did it really say seconds?? hmmm. Most of the time they are portrayed to be equal (when they are in the same comic at least) Too me they are equal, but I guess thats just imo

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I know what your talkin about but did it really say seconds?? hmmm. Most of the time they are portrayed to be equal (when they are in the same comic at least) Too me they are equal, but I guess thats just imo
Thing is, Clark Vs Billy is always under a special circumstance. They have two Eclipso fights, one ending in a clear loss for Billy and the recent one with Shazam and Spectre running interference. The Superman/Batman incident was right after Superman (and Batman) ran a gauntlet of heros and villains, not to mention the K-nite asteroid speeding towards Earth. Crisis Times Five and Virtue & Vice had Marvel KO Superman with lightning charged sucker punches. Another fight had a pissed Billy wrestling with a calm and talking Superman.

To me, it's the same thing as Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman supposedly being his peers when he clearly and utterly curbstomps them in actual feats. He's done too much for me to view them as his equals.

Vally, you gotta take into account the political hierarchy of DC, as well as Superman's overexposure, and others nonexistent exposure. And for the record, you can't suckerpunch superman. Not possible. His senses are way too heightened to be legitimately "surprised". And even if it was a "suckerpunch", he still knocked out Superman with one hit. My lil cousin can suckerpunch me, but it wouldn't even really register, unless he has the power to one punch me. Cap has shown that he can one punch superman. Not that big of a deal.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Vally, you gotta take into account the political hierarchy of DC, as well as Superman's overexposure, and others nonexistent exposure.
That's certainly a dilemma I've been having. My problem is, how many of his high showings do we disregard before we just have to admit that maybe he is that formidable? Let's really look at this.

Superman beats the JLA and we say, "Hey! That shouldn't happen at all." Black Adam stomps a JSA team 3 times in their own book, a JSA thats superior to the JLA in more ways than one and we gawk at how awesome he is and we all gladly accept that Teth Adam is just a badass. What? How does that work? For that matter, why should we punish Superman because he has two monthlies and a never on time Batman team up book?

Originally posted by UniOmni
My lil cousin can suckerpunch me, but it wouldn't even really register, unless he has the power to one punch me. Cap has shown that he can one punch superman. Not that big of a deal.
Your little cousin doesn't charge his punches with lightning that take advantage of an inherent weakness you have. If Billy was Superman's physical peer he wouldn't need a weakness exploitation. Even Lex Luthor has rocked Clark when he's wearing K-nite armor.

Supes and CM had 2 arm wrestling matches which were a draw. In Kingdom Come, Lex and Supes both acknowledged that CM is Superman's equal. Even the DC files lists Marvel as Superman's equal.

Hey you have to mention ripping off Amazos head

Originally posted by badabing
Supes and CM had 2 arm wrestling matches which were a draw. In Kingdom Come, Lex and Supes both acknowledged that CM is Superman's equal. Even The DC files lists Marvel as Superman's equal.
They always say it. They say lots of things.

Here's an example.

Superman: "You and I may be equal in power, Princess...." (referring to Wonder Woman)

How many of us believe Superman and Wonder Woman are equal in power when comparing their on panel feats? If the answer is any higher than zero, you're lying just to spite me.

Originally posted by Validus
They always say it. They say lots of things.

Here's an example.

Superman: "You and I may be equal in power, Princess...." (referring to Wonder Woman)

How many of us believe Superman and Wonder Woman are equal in power when comparing their on panel feats? If the answer is any higher than zero, you're lying just to spite me.
Power is more than strength. In a h2h match up, Marvel has proved to be Superman's equal. I want to spite you but I'm in a good mood today.

I gotta agree with Validus here.

Marvel and Supes are equals, even I, a HUGE superman fanboy(although not enough to turn a deaf ear to reason)will admit that, I have a comic where supes gets MC'ed and who do the writers send to subdue/stalemate him to keep him from killing everyone (literally)? Cpt. marvel, he has his hands full but is succesful in outsmarting the guy who's controlling him and with the aid of wonder woman they are able to preoccupy him and figure out how to release superman from the spell/mc he's under.


even tho a few comics later batman tells supes he's the most powerful being on earth.

Originally posted by batdude123
I gotta agree with Validus here.
Go away. You've done enough damage by bumping the Spider-man vs Wolverine thread.

Originally posted by badabing
Power is more than strength.

This is Superman comparing himself to Wonder Woman. What else does she have going for her besides that? She sure as hell isn't faster or more durable. She isn't smarter either. Diana's got nothing on Clark and we all know this despite his kind words.

Originally posted by badabing
In a h2h match up, Marvel has proved to be Superman's equal.
Not that I've seen.

First Eclipso fight was a victory for Superman. The second fight in 2004 ended with Billy being choked to death before Shazam showed up after his Kingdom Come style lightning attack failed.

The Superman/Batman fight has an exhausted, weakened Superman going against a fresh Captain Marvel. Even still, when Superman decides to switch with Batman (how smart is it to send Batman against CM anyway) he catches his punch and throws him away.

Crisis Times Five shows CM sucker punching Clark with a lightning punch. Virtue & Vice shows Superman talking to Power Girl when CM flies out of nowhere and KO's him with you guessed it, a charged lightning punch.

They have a short scuffle in Adventures of Superman I believe that goes nowhere. Both had their minds played with.

Power of Shazam is an angry Billy grappling with Superman who maintains an attempt to talk him down. Another go nowhere fight.

Like I said before, these two never square off under the same mindset. Their showings against one another are almost meaningless. Oh yeah, Cap can hang in there but show me a time where he's KO'd Supes without the lightning charged punches and I might agree. Still, CM simply doesn't match Superman when it comes to high level feats.

Diana has magic.

Originally posted by badabing
Diana has magic.
Magic that outside of the lasso is practically good for nothing. Incidently, WW did defeat Superman when she tied him in her MAGIC lasso. Almost as good as lightning punching him to death.

Okay, I see we're not going to convince each other. I think we both have valid points. Obviously they are both powerful and intelligent, but IMO Black Adam is every bit as strong, fast and durable. The battle could go either way but I'm going to lean toward Black Adam in this battle.

I only said what i did, because i think BA/CM and Clark are pretty much identical in physical stats. Clark has energy projection, whereas they have none. But thats the only advantage he has over them.

And for the record, all his charged punches do is bypass his biofield, and hit his true durability. Not a weakness, when Superman has his class 100 durability, AND a handy biofield. All the charged punches do is hit him on the actual skin. Like everybody else has to deal with. IE, Thor, Hulk, DD, Mongul, Sentry, etc.
All it does is make him take it like everybody else......Is it that much of a cheat if it challenges his true durability??

And while Superman has the feats, for every major crazy feat of him outclassing all his "peers", ala OWAW, you then have a few JLA titles to put him right back in line.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I only said what i did, because i think BA/CM and Clark are pretty much identical in physical stats. Clark has energy projection, whereas they have none. But thats the only advantage he has over them.

And for the record, all his charged punches do is bypass his biofield, and hit his true durability. Not a weakness, when Superman has his class 100 durability, AND a handy biofield. All the charged punches do is hit him on the actual skin. Like everybody else has to deal with. IE, Thor, Hulk, DD, Mongul, Sentry, etc.
All it does is make him take it like everybody else......Is it that much of a cheat if it challenges his true durability??

And while Superman has the feats, for every major crazy feat of him outclassing all his "peers", ala OWAW, you then have a few JLA titles to put him right back in line.

His Heat Vision really does not bother them. It's pretty much useless.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And for the record, all his charged punches do is bypass his biofield, and hit his true durability. Not a weakness, when Superman has his class 100 durability, AND a handy biofield. All the charged punches do is hit him on the actual skin. Like everybody else has to deal with. IE, Thor, Hulk, DD, Mongul, Sentry, etc.
All it does is make him take it like everybody else......Is it that much of a cheat if it challenges his true durability??
His true durability INCLUDES the biofield. Magic and kryptonite are the only things that pass through it when Superman has a full tank of solar energy. I go back to the Superman/Batman issue.

"Captain Marvel's powers are based in magic. Toe to toe, he has the advantage."

It's not a "cheat". It's a legitimate advantage Cap has over him. That's fair game and thats good but it does nothing to show his supposed equality to Superman on a physical level.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And while Superman has the feats, for every major crazy feat of him outclassing all his "peers", ala OWAW, you then have a few JLA titles to put him right back in line.

True enough. What I'm doing here is comparing a high level Superman to a high level everyone else. When doing that I think it becomes clear that his so-called peers are left in the dust. Company politics? Maybe but theres way too much stuff to just toss out due to politics.

Originally posted by Validus
His true durability INCLUDES the biofield. Magic and kryptonite are the only things that pass through it when Superman has a full tank of solar energy. I go back to the Superman/Batman issue.

"Captain Marvel's powers are based in magic. Toe to toe, he has the advantage."

It's not a "cheat". It's a legitimate advantage Cap has over him. That's fair game and thats good but it does nothing to show his supposed equality to Superman on a physical level.



True enough. What I'm doing here is comparing a high level Superman to a high level everyone else. When doing that I think it becomes clear that his so-called peers are left in the dust. Company politics? Maybe but theres way too much stuff to just toss due to politics.

All i ever took Batmans line to mean was that since Clark depends on his aura/biofield so much, that to have it voided, would be to take away his key advantage.
And i guess we just see it differently. Clark underneath the biofield is still premiere class 100 in hardiness. I just don't see how losing it can be a true disadvantage, when others have to get by on their skins hardiness, without a neat little aura to take the brunt of the damage. If Superman is still high class 100 without the aura, and actually has to feel the punches from others, and we call it a weakness, then WTF?!!
Thor, Hulk, BA and CM and others have been exploited since day one.
I could see, if without the biofield he was only peak human. Then i could understand.
But he has this uber durability, along with a neat skin tight shield, and when he loses the shield, he's at a vast disadvantage?! Imo, it just got even.

In truth, the original intent of his biofeld was to explain why his costume never got shredded when he's going hypersonic in the atmosphere. His durability underneath it varies by the writer and it has been said that he can mentally turn down his strength and durability to human levels and all the way up to OWAW levels. Still, the effect of magic on Superman is clear enough to know Cap uses it to his advantage.

http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=6c519_capvesupes2j.jpg

And really, who are we to argue with Captain Marvel?

Originally posted by Validus
This is Superman comparing himself to Wonder Woman. What else does she have going for her besides that? She sure as hell isn't faster or more durable. She isn't smarter either. Diana's got nothing on Clark and we all know this despite his kind words.


Not that I've seen.

First Eclipso fight was a victory for Superman. The second fight in 2004 ended with Billy being choked to death before Shazam showed up after his Kingdom Come style lightning attack failed.

The Superman/Batman fight has an exhausted, weakened Superman going against a fresh Captain Marvel. Even still, when Superman decides to switch with Batman (how smart is it to send Batman against CM anyway) he catches his punch and throws him away.

Crisis Times Five shows CM sucker punching Clark with a lightning punch. Virtue & Vice shows Superman talking to Power Girl when CM flies out of nowhere and KO's him with you guessed it, a charged lightning punch.

They have a short scuffle in Adventures of Superman I believe that goes nowhere. Both had their minds played with.

Power of Shazam is an angry Billy grappling with Superman who maintains an attempt to talk him down. Another go nowhere fight.

Like I said before, these two never square off under the same mindset. Their showings against one another are almost meaningless. Oh yeah, Cap can hang in there but show me a time where he's KO'd Supes without the lightning charged punches and I might agree. Still, CM simply doesn't match Superman when it comes to high level feats. The point is that Cap. Marvel is always knocking out Superman. How many times has Superman knocked out Marvel. Answer: None. Captain Marvel is being penalized for using a lightning charged punch???? How about Superman using his protective aura in his punches ON TOP of the many powers that he posseses (heat vision, etc.). The end of this argument is that Superman himself has said that Cap. Marvel is his physical equal. Cap just does not have the extra powers like heat vision, etc. End of story.

a not wanting to fight Black Adam (he only punched him to get him off, he didnt want an all out fight) vs an enraged Supes (if you can read the writting on the double spread he says hes goin with no concern for Black Adam)


http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c87fd_bavssuperman1.jpg
http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=29cf6_bavssuperman2.jpg
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c39ea_bavssuperman3.jpg
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=55c0f_bavssuperman4.jpg

looks like BA was more than holding his own.

More than likely Black Adam. Both are equally ruthless. Both are more than willing to play dirty.

However while Zod has the edge in superior strength and speed, Black Adam has the experience (Zod technically may have more or equal experience but floating around in the Phantom Zone doesn't really count...) superior fighting skills, superior tactics and magical reinforcement to tilt the scales in his favor.

Originally posted by Validus
They always say it. They say lots of things.

Here's an example.

Superman: "You and I may be equal in power, Princess...." (referring to Wonder Woman)

How many of us believe Superman and Wonder Woman are equal in power when comparing their on panel feats? If the answer is any higher than zero, you're lying just to spite me.

You have a point here....Supes has claimed many have been his "toughest battle" yet he has never given that respect to the Eradicator..who put ownage on him to the max way back in ways that would even make Doomsday cry.

Originally posted by kenobi
The point is that Cap. Marvel is always knocking out Superman. How many times has Superman knocked out Marvel. Answer: None. Captain Marvel is being penalized for using a lightning charged punch???? How about Superman using his protective aura in his punches ON TOP of the many powers that he posseses (heat vision, etc.). The end of this argument is that Superman himself has said that Cap. Marvel is his physical equal. Cap just does not have the extra powers like heat vision, etc. End of story.
I didn't penalize Marvel for using lightning punches. I penalized him for sucker punching. Show me CM knocking out Superman in a straight fight.

Originally posted by Validus
I didn't penalize Marvel for using lightning punches. I penalized him for sucker punching. Show me CM knocking out Superman in a straight fight.

ok

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1124/billyvsclarki5vr.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3572/billyvsclarkii2hl.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2906/billyvsclarkiii6tc.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5811/billyvsclarkiv7le.jpg

Black Adam is kool he wins

bump...

bump

yea zod is a tool

Originally posted by MattDay
yea zod is a tool Zod 6/10
"kneel before ZOD"

No Thanks

Adam Wins

draw

Nope

Mighty Adam Wins

Zod is a far more ruthles, tatical, efficant warrior than Superman (and I belive slightly more powerful) I give Zod the majority.

Tie.

No

You just said Draw

And Black Adam grinds Zod into dust

Zod 7/10. More durable, smarter, more ruthless, pretty much just as strong, and way more skill.

Originally posted by Milkie
No

You just said Draw

And Black Adam grinds Zod into dust
Split decision?

Originally posted by complexbrother
Zod is a far more ruthles, tatical, efficant warrior than Superman (and I belive slightly more powerful) I give Zod the majority.

You my friend have been watching to much smallville, Adam for the win

What Zod?
The one in armor that dropped Superman in one punch that shattered his jaw?

Originally posted by Juntai
What Zod?
The one in armor that dropped Superman in one punch that shattered his jaw?

thats the one I'm thinking about. the dimensionaly displaced general .

Eh?

Tough one.

Zod may not even have a weakness to magic.

Let's remember that Superman's supposed "weakness" to magic is simply because he doesn't understand it. IE...it's pretty much self imposed.

Magic isn't a universal weakness for kryptonians whatsoever.

If the lightning bolt trick doesn't work. Adam is in for a rough time.

Can you provide scans to back up those claims?

Well which general Zod? there's like 3 we can compare at this point in time. There's the one created by brainiac 13, The one from Russia, then the new one

Originally posted by Milkie
Can you provide scans to back up those claims?

Superman as "gangbuster" defied magic.

Superman has willed off magical transmutation from a skyfather level being.

There have also been kryptonian magicians.

It's all been stated directly in print before...do I remember where? Hell no.

Too much damn material.

Originally posted by Validus
Black Adam's recent showings throw me off greatly. He looked better than any other hero has against Supes in quite some time and thats including Captain Marvel which boggles my mind. In Infinite Crisis he ripped Amazo's head off without much trouble. Since JSA started in 2001 I believe, Black Adam has been on a new level.

Still, I generally put Superman (and thus Zod) a hair above Shazam's champions on a stat level. Zod is just as ruthless as Adam so it will be different than fighting against Clark however Adam's lightning punches WILL get the win if he uses them.

BA 6/10 based on his recent stuff. Factor in his entire Post Crisis history and I'd say Zod 6/10. i agree smart post. by the way BA can go light speed but i'll only seen him do it in space.

Originally posted by Validus
Magic that outside of the lasso is practically good for nothing. Incidently, WW did defeat Superman when she tied him in her MAGIC lasso. Almost as good as lightning punching him to death. so what if CM use's magic punches? its a part of his power set is it not. thats like me a huge hulk fan saying supes is a puss for flying or useing his speed on hulk if its one of your powers use it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Superman as "gangbuster" defied magic.

Superman has willed off magical transmutation from a skyfather level being.

Sure but this ain't the same



LOL

There are human magicians. That doesn't mean all humans are immune to magic

LMAO!



No material = no proof

I could just as easy say one thing about a character that isn't widely known and provide no proof.

Black adam will kneel before Zod! (nuff said)

Originally posted by Milkie
Sure but this ain't the same

It shows that magic resistance is based in part to willpower on kryptonians...

Originally posted by Milkie
LOL

There are human magicians. That doesn't mean all humans are immune to magic

LMAO!

Who said humans or kryptonians were IMMUNE to magic? Just not all kryptonians are as susceptable as Clark due to his upbringing. 2 totally different things.

Not that it matters when Zod is just as ruthless and is much faster than Adam anyway.

Originally posted by Milkie
No material = no proof

I could just as easy say one thing about a character that isn't widely known and provide no proof.

That's your issue. I don't feel the need to look through hundreds of back issues, bios, or interviews to satisfy your request.

double

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It shows that magic resistance is based in part to willpower on kryptonians...

He used his "T-Vo" (or whatever) which he has to concentrate.

That's not gonna do much when you have a guy in your face beating your brains out.




This is irrelevant

Superman is not a magician and he's not going to be fighting off magical beings left and right.



Speed does not equal defeat (not saying that Zod is "much" faster as you claim). You have no proof that Zod is flat out the fastest guy in town and has defeated people like Superman with speed alone. Black Adam is fast enough to keep up, it's not like they're going to be going top speed the whole damn battle. This ain't a race.



Not really.

You're somewhat claiming that Kryptonian Will Power > Magic

I want proof but you don't want to go through the trouble and that's fine.

He is correct however, Superman can will off magical attacks.

Show Me

I want to see this with my own eyes.

If you don't have scans, tell me what book

I'll look for myself.

And like I said before, even if he could, he's not going to be willing off anything when he has a guy all up in his face bashing his head in. I just do see that happing

Originally posted by Juntai
He is correct however, Superman can will off magical attacks.

Lies.

Superman punches through magical attacks. Anyone knows that.

In Action Comics 762, he took Etrigan's magical hellfire. He also was both punched to the moon and actually inhaled magic in this issue. He also shrugged off the Hellfire in several other instances, such as Action 589.

You can check his battles against Blaze. Given she is the demon daughter of the Wizard SHAZAM. Such as their confrontations in Action 656.. continuing into Superman 47, then ending in AOS 470. She tried turning him into stone and a number of other things, Superman kept shrugging them off.

He has also fought Satanus a number of times.

A few members of his rogues gallery are really high end magic users, from Queen of Fables to Mxy and on.

In War of the Gods, Superman took a magic beam that was going to annihilate Paradise Island.

Exactly how many instances are you looking for? Superman has a vast history.

Originally posted by Milkie
He used his "T-Vo" (or whatever) which he has to concentrate.

That's not gonna do much when you have a guy in your face beating your brains out.

Supes body has taken magic bolts directly from Shazam himself and kept on coming. Black Adam himself didn't want to fight a pissed of Superman.

Zod not limiting himself like Clark would spell trouble already.




Originally posted by Milkie
This is irrelevant

Superman is not a magician and he's not going to be fighting off magical beings left and right.


You mean like all the examples Juntai named AND the fact that he fought in Asgard for 1000 years?


Originally posted by Milkie
Speed does not equal defeat (not saying that Zod is "much" faster as you claim). You have no proof that Zod is flat out the fastest guy in town and has defeated people like Superman with speed alone. Black Adam is fast enough to keep up, it's not like they're going to be going top speed the whole damn battle. This ain't a race.

Show me where it shows a Marvel fighting as fast as a kryptonian or moving anywhere near as fast.

Last I heard, the stronger and faster guy usually wins the fight.

Originally posted by Milkie
Not really.

You're somewhat claiming that Kryptonian Will Power > Magic

I want proof but you don't want to go through the trouble and that's fine.

It surely reduces the effects of it. If you don't know that...then read some comics...I thought this was common knowledge...guess I was wrong on that one.

Originally posted by Juntai
In Action Comics 762, he took Etrigan's magical hellfire. He also was both punched to the moon and actually inhaled magic in this issue. He also shrugged off the Hellfire in several other instances, such as Action 589.

First off Shazam's Lightning is more powerful then Etrigan's "Hellfire" is. And in that same issue Etrigan made Superman bleed
using magic.

Also, Superman was effect by inhaling that magic. It was suppose to effect him in a bad way but because his soul was pure it effected him in a good way. Kinda like Thor's hammer.



I'll check this out and post my comments later.





When did this happened?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes body has taken magic bolts directly from Shazam himself and kept on coming. Black Adam himself didn't want to fight a pissed of Superman.

LOL

Eclipso (a magical being) was merged with Superman

Shazam was holding back, he could have killed them both but instead he summoned Spectre to deal with Eclipso.



Him fighting in Asgard hasn't givin him any power.



http://img140.imagevenue.com/initial/loc24/a8c37_capflash2.jpg

http://img106.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-17503/loc24/13d5c_justice7.jpg

http://img14.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-30488/loc24/7cd15_flash3.jpg

http://img7.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-24194/loc24/eb1fd_flash4.jpg

http://img144.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-8355/loc24/cfd2f_flash5.jpg

http://img136.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-29643/loc24/953b7_flash6.jpg



You're trying to make it out like he can fight off all magic. Most of his magic showings are PIS. DC doesn't want their boy scout to lose all the time. Funny how magic works on other magical characters but not Superman

Originally posted by Milkie
Most of his magic showings are PIS. DC doesn't want their boy scout to lose all the time. Funny how magic works on other magical characters but not Superman On panel showings > opinion of what a character should be capable of. Especially when it's shown fairly consistantly.

Anyone who doesn't think Teth wins is a racist.

Originally posted by Validus
Anyone who doesn't think Teth wins is a racist. lmao.



I haven't actually said who I thought would win, I was just backing up Supes.

Originally posted by Juntai
On panel showings > opinion of what a character should be capable of. Especially when it's shown fairly consistantly.

Boy Scout/Flageship Character

Originally posted by Milkie
Boy Scout/Flageship Character Uh-huh, go that route, it'll get you somewhere.

Sure

Originally posted by Milkie
LOL

Eclipso (a magical being) was merged with Superman

Shazam was holding back, he could have killed them both but instead he summoned Spectre to deal with Eclipso.

It was the same body...
Nowhere did it say that Eclipso somehow made Supes less vulnerable .


Originally posted by Milkie


Umm...magical beings? 1000 years of fighting them...
You know, since you claim magic pwns kryptonians?



Originally posted by Milkie
http://img140.imagevenue.com/initial/loc24/a8c37_capflash2.jpg

http://img106.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-17503/loc24/13d5c_justice7.jpg

http://img14.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-30488/loc24/7cd15_flash3.jpg

http://img7.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-24194/loc24/eb1fd_flash4.jpg

http://img144.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-8355/loc24/cfd2f_flash5.jpg

http://img136.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-29643/loc24/953b7_flash6.jpg


Only 2 of these work, and they show nothing...
Defintely nothing close to the ftl speeds of kryptonians...


Originally posted by Milkie


No...apparently you aren't getting the fact that he becomes more resistant with willpower.

You have a problem with Kryptonians..feel free to write to DC instead of complain on a vs forum.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes body has taken magic bolts directly from Shazam himself and kept on coming. Black Adam himself didn't want to fight a pissed of Superman.

Zod not limiting himself like Clark would spell trouble already.







You mean like all the examples Juntai named AND the fact that he fought in Asgard for 1000 years?




Show me where it shows a Marvel fighting as fast as a kryptonian or moving anywhere near as fast.

Last I heard, the stronger and faster guy usually wins the fight.



It surely reduces the effects of it. If you don't know that...then read some comics...I thought this was common knowledge...guess I was wrong on that one.

When Zod broke Supermans jaw, wasn't it a weaker Superman than he is currently?

Who's to say Zod IS faster than Teth?
Stronger as well?

And Teth fought Flash 1 and kept up with combat speed easily in JSA.

I'm not backing either, but to say Zod is flat out more powerful is kinda unsupportable.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It was the same body...
Nowhere did it say that Eclipso somehow made Supes less vulnerable.

Eclipso has some resistance to magic.



What issue was this? I'd like to see for myself.



Dude the Marvel Family is just as fast as and strong as kryptonians.

Why don't you give proof that they aren't?



Yep because will power > everything



I didn't say I have a problem with them and I'm not complaining about anything. WTF?

Originally posted by Milkie


Why don't you give proof that they aren't?



Because you can't prove a negative. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Because you can't prove a negative. .

I'm limited because I don't have scans

If I did I'd post them

Black Adam wins. And Zod isn't faster or stronger than BA. The Marvels are just as fast and strong as the Kryptonians it's been stated many times even by supes himself. Bios even say Marvels can exceed light speed in space.

Originally posted by Milkie
Eclipso has some resistance to magic.

Nobody ever denied that Eclipso itself has magic resistance...however...where did it state ANYWHERE that he upped magic defense on Superman?



Originally posted by Milkie
What issue was this? I'd like to see for myself.

For a guy that can't provide any proof of his own...you sure ask for a lot. Check in the Superman respect forum, I posted it there long ago. I'm not going to do the work for you.



Originally posted by Milkie
Dude the Marvel Family is just as fast as and strong as kryptonians.

Why don't you give proof that they aren't?

Better yet, why don't you prove that they are. Comparable feats should do nicely.



Originally posted by Milkie
Yep because will power > everything

Glad that you learned that. Now you can move on.



Originally posted by Milkie
I didn't say I have a problem with them and I'm not complaining about anything. WTF?

Then what is this whine?

Originally posted by Milkie
You're trying to make it out like he can fight off all magic. Most of his magic showings are PIS. DC doesn't want their boy scout to lose all the time. Funny how magic works on other magical characters but not Superman

Because what you say of course is more canon than DC.

I really don't see the point of contesting that the 'fact' that the Marvels have comparable speed and strength to the kryptonians.....

Maybe it's just me.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Nobody ever denied that Eclipso itself has magic resistance...however...where did it state ANYWHERE that he upped magic defense on Superman?

Jesus Christ

A lot a shit is not said in comic books, that doesn't mean it didn't. Superman get's a lot of crap done to him all the time. Do they Narrate it ever damn time? No.

"Superman is punched in the nuts. But is super durability allows his balls to be unharmed!"



Sorry, I'm not the one defending Superman.



Superman has traded blows with Captain Marvel and Black Adam lots of times.



Ha!



Nobodies whining

Can you stop with the irrelevant comments?



Same guys for you.

Originally posted by Soljer
I really don't see the point of contesting that the 'fact' that the Marvels have comparable speed and strength to the kryptonians.....

Maybe it's just me.

Because some say Zod will win because they think he is stronger and faster.

Just read AOS 470 and these claims you people made are complete BS

Superman gettin thrashed by a Magical Rock Being. He even says either the Rock Creature is too powerful or the magic is weakening him.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5365/adventuresofsuperman470iq4.th.jpg

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6047/adventuresofsuperman470wr7.th.jpg

And here is the fantastic lies that you people try to spread.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5172/adventuresofsuperman470dz7.th.jpg

The actual spell (the kiss) was not even put into play, so Superman didn't do anything impressive.

And Superman was indeed, turned into "stone" for a while.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7026/adventuresofsuperman470gb5.th.jpg

She could have easily killed him but that wasn't her goal. She wanted to possess him as well as Jimmy.

Originally posted by Milkie
Just read AOS 470 and these claims you people made are complete BS

Superman gettin thrashed by a Magical Rock Being. He even says either the Rock Creature is too powerful or the magic is weakening him.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5365/adventuresofsuperman470iq4.th.jpg

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6047/adventuresofsuperman470wr7.th.jpg

And here is the fantastic lies that you people try to spread.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5172/adventuresofsuperman470dz7.th.jpg

The actual spell (the kiss) was not even put into play, so Superman didn't do anything impressive.

And Superman was indeed, turned into "stone" for a while.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7026/adventuresofsuperman470gb5.th.jpg

She could have easily killed him but that wasn't her goal. She wanted to possess him as well as Jimmy.

Congratulations...you just showed what we've said all along...Superman isn't immune to magic...he's pretty resistant though. Unless you think humans being stepped on my magical rock creatures is a normal thing.

Later on he was turned to stone...and willed himself back to normal.

Too bad Black Adam is not a skyfather level character and his magic works NOTHING like this....now....as for resistance.

As Gangbuster he resists mystical binding:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Superman/SupermanvsAdvesary.jpg

He PURPOSELY takes a punch from a magical opponent and even wills himself for the blow.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Superman/SupermanvsAdvesary.jpg

He's caught Thors hammer straight up.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanandThorbrawlin3.jpg

What's this? 1000 year war in ASGARD? Nope..no magical beings there...and we're sure nobody used spells at all..

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8635/week042000action761146vl.th.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/627/week042000action76118190yn.th.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1890/week042000action761206ke.th.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/2716/week042000action761218as.th.jpg

I'm done for now...if you like...keep feigning ignorance after this.

Now this was Superman, who has probably the worst time with magic.

Zod was raised in a totally different environment and is far more ruthless.

Zod 7/10.

black adam 10/10. In all of thos scans I didnt see superman get punched the entire time by magic. Every punch that black adam land would be nothing but pure magic. During the time that superman body was taken over (forgot the being name that took over his body) it was stated that captain marvel didnt have to do nothing but hit superman one time with full strength and it would have killed him but he said no and thats when the being used superman strength throwing ships at metropolis.

Meh, I'm jumping on the Black Adam bandwagon. He was intense in 52 and WW III.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Congratulations...you just showed what we've said all along...Superman isn't immune to magic...he's pretty resistant though. Unless you think humans being stepped on my magical rock creatures is a normal thing.

LOL, No he's not. Superman's powers allow him not to die while being stepped on. The rock creature is a magical being but a magic wielder.



What! No he didn't.

He used his Heat Vision to crack the stone. Then he broke out.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4746/adventuresofsuperman470dk4.th.jpg

More of your fantastic lies.



He magic doesn't have to work like that. Black Adam proved that his magic was powerful when he flew through Spectre's head.



I don't see the point of this since there is no Magic being used anywhere.



That was a crossover which is PIS all up and down the wall and I don't even think that's canon



Oh yeah let's forget the parts where Thor gives him is Hammer and he is wearing what appears to be magical armor. As far as I can see I don't see any magic being used and he's fighting what appears to be grunts and silly dragons.

I don't see any mention of 1,000 years either. What issue was this?



Whatever Dude.

Originally posted by Milkie

"Superman is punched in the nuts. But is super durability allows his balls to be unharmed!"

Originally posted by Milkie
LOL, No he's not. Superman's powers allow him not to die while being stepped on. The rock creature is a magical being but a magic wielder.



What! No he didn't.

He used his Heat Vision to crack the stone. Then he broke out.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4746/adventuresofsuperman470dk4.th.jpg

More of your fantastic lies.



He magic doesn't have to work like that. Black Adam proved that his magic was powerful when he flew through Spectre's head.



I don't see the point of this since there is no Magic being used anywhere.



That was a crossover which is PIS all up and down the wall and I don't even think that's canon



Oh yeah let's forget the parts where Thor gives him is Hammer and he is wearing what appears to be magical armor. As far as I can see I don't see any magic being used and he's fighting what appears to be grunts and silly dragons.

I don't see any mention of 1,000 years either. What issue was this?



Whatever Dude.


First, nothing happens.
Then it's "those damn kryptonians!"
Then you can't see it.
Then it's PIS.

But you know...according to you...magic instantly pwns kryptonians...

So basically is "nuh nuh" on your behalf.

Keep up with your denial. Fine with me.