Batman vs Lex Luthor

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dawsey28
Batman vs Lex Luthor

Okay, first try at this, so don't be too harsh...please.

I did a search and this fight was here. I just wanted the fight on my terms. My fight is in a different setting and gives both partys a chance. So I apologise ahead of time if this fight has been done before or if it is against the rules.

I don't want them to fight in an arena, because that kind of defeats the purpose when it comes to these two. I'll say the setting will be in an entire city, but a different city than Gothem or Metropolis. That way there is no homefield advantage. (I hope the fight not being in an arena isn't against the rules.)

I don't want Batman to get help from JLA nor do I want Luthor to get help from Doomsday, Bizarro or something, but I would like them to get help from familiars such as Nightwing, Robin, Catwoman, Mercy, and Luthor's scientists, so I'll say no Metahuman outside interferance, but mortals are allowed to interfere. (Or all interferance can be taken out if you like.)

I say give them both prep time and allow them to use weapons, vehichles, robot goons and such that could be built or the one at their disposal.

dawsey28
Anyone?

OtterVomit
Batman's been the architect of Luthor's undoing more than a few times.

dawsey28
But did he have meta-human help on those?

I mean Luthor's weapons supply the military and he has nuclear satellites capable of destroying a large portion of a city.

Of coarse Batman has some rather impressive toys also.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by dawsey28
But did he have meta-human help on those?

I mean Luthor's weapons supply the military and he has nuclear satellites capable of destroying a large portion of a city.

Of coarse Batman has some rather impressive toys also.


They both had meta human help in JLA and Kingdom Come

dawsey28
yes, look at my original post. I said no meta-human help.

A fight btwn these two w/o meta-humans. who wins?

eleveninches
In an unarmed fight, bruce would easily win.
Bruce also has vastly more resources than lex

dawsey28
but both get preptime.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by eleveninches
In an unarmed fight, bruce would easily win.
Bruce also has vastly more resources than lex

Lex has more money then Batman and is the President of USA...

JWangSDC
Actually bruce has more money...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Lex has more money then Batman and is the President of USA...

DarkCrawler
I was just going by this page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/8681/wealth.html

Mainstream
so Batman spends his cash on his "toys"

JWangSDC
Nah that page is wrong...

http://www.forbes.com/2002/09/13/400fictional_print.html


"Even Bruce, whose wealth EXCEEDS lex's, couldn't work the system so well..."


Sup/Bat 6

Mainstream
Batman does have more Bucks than his bald buddy.

WindDancer
On a physical fight Batman wins any day of the week over Luthor.

Moneywise Luthor has the edge. Most deadly is Luthor NO question about it.

When it comes to brains is Batman for sure. If the fight is about who is more technological then is a tied. Both men are extremely smart and both are renown Industrialists.

JWangSDC
Luthor does NOT have teh edge money wise. I'm not sure I could say bruce has the edge brain wise either

Originally posted by WindDancer
On a physical fight Batman wins any day of the week over Luthor.

Moneywise Luthor has the edge. Most deadly is Luthor NO question about it.

When it comes to brains is Batman for sure. If the fight is about who is more technological then is a tied. Both men are extremely smart and both are renown Industrialists.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by WindDancer
On a physical fight Batman wins any day of the week over Luthor.

Moneywise Luthor has the edge. Most deadly is Luthor NO question about it.

When it comes to brains is Batman for sure. If the fight is about who is more technological then is a tied. Both men are extremely smart and both are renown Industrialists.

In JLA it was clear Bruce was more successfull, for a change Wanger is right big grin

dawsey28
Does Lex know Batman's secret identity? Because if he doesn't batman could have an edge that way. Because Batman knows who Lex Luthor is.

JWangSDC
When have i been wrong?


Originally posted by whirlysplat
In JLA it was clear Bruce was more successfull, for a change Wanger is right big grin

Paola
whirly: no name calling, ok?

dawsey28
bump

NoFate007
Batman wins, hands down.

Solidus Snake
as long as lex doesnt know bats is brucie...bats will win.

Creshosk
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I was just going by this page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/8681/wealth.html The monitor and the anti-monitor have anual incomes?

What the f**k?

willRules
You should make it a fight for control of the city................

willRules
Originally posted by Creshosk
The monitor and the anti-monitor have anual incomes?

What the f**k?


Yeah the Pay is pretty good and chicks dig that remote eye thingy............

Mider
isnt Lex like one of the best fighters in DC or at least been trained by some of the best fighters in DC?

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Creshosk
The monitor and the anti-monitor have anual incomes?

What the f**k?

It's just the scale...I think 500,000,000 should mean infinite wealth if they wanted it.

Demas
I think "Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive" proves just how much Lex can mess with Batman using just humans. If Lex had wanted Batman dead in that arc, Batman would be dead.

Juntai
Originally posted by Demas
I think "Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive" proves just how much Lex can mess with Batman using just humans. If Lex had wanted Batman dead in that arc, Batman would be dead. Not really that great of an example, Batman outsmarted him, foiled all of his plans, and even broke into his office and threatened him and beat up his guard, Mercy. lol.


And Lex is far more affluent than Bruce Wayne, someone posted up that old Forbes magazine thing, and it says Bruce is richer, but that's the 02 one, on the 05 one, Lex moved a decent margin ahead of him.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10287276/
Here's the updated list, just a few weeks ago.
Lex is worth nearly double what Bruce is.

Juntai
He also will have much more at his disposal in this fight, and SHOULD win, but Batman more likely will, especially as mentioned, some help from his freinds, Oracle would be monumental being the world's best hacker.. Bats is a much better battle strategist.

Demas
Originally posted by Juntai Not really that great of an example, Batman outsmarted him, foiled all of his plans, and even broke into his office and threatened him and beat up his guard, Mercy. lol.

Wow, you're basically giving up your credibility to say anything to make his point at this point aren't you? I said specifically that the arc proved if he wanted Batman dead he could have done it. It's ONLY because of plot contrivances that Wayne had some 14+ issues to even figure out who was messing with him before he could respond.

If Lex had executed the exact same plan as an assassination instead of a frame-up, Batman would be long departed from this world.



And since when did Forbes count as a more reliable source than the current comics? Superman explicitly said Wayne is wealthier. From the pages of Superman we have Talia being entrusted with Luthor's assets then eventually selling them off to Wayne. Wayne has his legitimate holdings, Luthor's legitimate holdings, and his hidden Bat-Fortune against Luthor's split (between two Luthor's) illegitimate holdings. Only in the most biased of imaginations is Luthor still more wealthy than Batman at this point.

Juntai
Originally posted by Demas
Wow, you're basically giving up your credibility to say anything to make his point at this point aren't you? I said specifically that the arc proved if he wanted Batman dead he could have done it. It's ONLY because of plot contrivances that Wayne had some 14+ issues to even figure out who was messing with him before he could respond.

If Lex had executed the exact same plan as an assassination instead of a frame-up, Batman would be long departed from this world.



And since when did Forbes count as a more reliable source than the current comics? Superman explicitly said Wayne is wealthier. From the pages of Superman we have Talia being entrusted with Luthor's assets then eventually selling them off to Wayne. Wayne has his legitimate holdings, Luthor's legitimate holdings, and his hidden Bat-Fortune against Luthor's split (between two Luthor's) illegitimate holdings. Only in the most biased of imaginations is Luthor still more wealthy than Batman at this point. What the hell is your problem?

I was just saying it wasn't a good example considering how bad Lex got owned. I never said it WOULDN'T work as an assassination if he came all out. And, I merely had posted the newest Forbes list up in the face of the old one being shown as evidence of why Bruce was more wealthy. My credibility isn't in question at all. I even said Batman would win, so would I "say anything" to back Lex?

Demas
Originally posted by Juntai
What the hell is your problem?

My credibility isn't in question at all. I even said Batman would win, so would I "say anything" to back Lex?

That's EXACTLY why your credibility is questionable. The fact that you won't present the facts once you have a bias.

A credible analysis would objectively look at the facts even when they go against their desired outcome. A credible look would consider both Lex's cunning and Batman's wealth... not simply restate one out of context or ignore the other's citing an invalid source simply to "prove" their favorite.

If people don't try to be objective it's nothing more than a popularity contest, testing the fervency of the poster's fandom, rather than a fair fight.

That's my problem.

Juntai
Originally posted by Demas
That's EXACTLY why your credibility is questionable. The fact that you won't present the facts once you have a bias.

A credible analysis would objectively look at the facts even when they go against their desired outcome. A credible look would consider both Lex's cunning and Batman's wealth... not simply restate one out of context or ignore the other's citing an invalid source simply to "prove" their favorite.

If people don't try to be objective it's nothing more than a popularity contest, testing the fervency of the poster's fandom, rather than a fair fight.

That's my problem. And its unfounded, I am not required to make a complete breakdown of both characters. However, I did feel the need to correct old information regardless of if I made any new entry or not.


You're also not recognizing The Man of Steel Lex Luthor series, where Lex once again became among the richest in the world. Though it's impossible to guage I think, against Bruce Wayne.

spidermonkey
Originally posted by willRules
You should make it a fight for control of the city................

Not a bad idea.

dawsey28
Originally posted by spidermonkey
Not a bad idea.

I don't think that is really necessary.

He-guy88
well as much as i HATE to say this but bats cause hes a detactive thats almost as smart as lex and could prob catch on to his plans dont get me wrong i like batman but lex luther is my fav out of the two

spidermonkey
Originally posted by dawsey28
I don't think that is really necessary.

Why not? sad

dawsey28
confused

dawsey28
Originally posted by spidermonkey
Why not? sad

Because neither one needs the city.

Superherovandal
Lex isn't even that rich anymore...

Darth Martin
Luthor is more wealthy and might be more intelligent. But Wayne has the skills and his business mind seems to be more coordinated.

SupremeMan
This is a tough one. I'd say Luthor's powered armor is out since it came from Apokolypse. Luthor comes up with technology that Superman has a tough time fighting. But its often stolen tech from alien cultures and I don't know if that's valid.

Overall, Batman is more devious. PLus Batman is so inconsistent between JLA and his own comics as far as what sort of tech he has.

I can't decide. embarrasment

dawsey28
Originally posted by SupremeMan
I can't decide. embarrasment

Neither could I, that is why I made the thread. big grin

Darth Martin
I say with the stipulations you put: Lex Luthor.

Cap'n Happy
Quoting non-comic websites to asses the wealth of Wayne and Luthor is of course useless. Almost as useless is quoting a comic book- unless it came out today. If you know ANYTHING about wealth, it is that it changes from day to day. One day you're up- the next you're down. It's safe to say that Bruce and Lex are the Bill Gates and Warren Buffet of the DCU- they are essentially equal (tho I think Lex is Gates, hence he is often a little richer).
Genius wise, Lex is a little higher. Both are very cunning. Where Bruce makes up ground is in his strategic thinking- and in his tactical planning.
Physically, it's no contest of course.
It would be a battle of will and intellect, of move and counter move. In the past, both men have won a battle or two, but never a definitive victory.
I give the win to Batman, because hubrius- Luthor's fatal flaw- would cause him to underestimate his opponent at some critical point... but it would be one great battle to see.

shiv
As Luthor prepares

The Batman meditates

Luthor delegates communication on the ground to an out of town specialist by the name of Matches Malone.

The Main Event.
The Batman is located cruising in the batmobile fighting crime and signing autographs
Lex's satellite flags enemy activity.
his shuttle races to intercept.

Luthor descends in a tractor beam with a smug grin a squillion dollar suit and a thousand minions in hulkbuster suits creeping out of the woodwork

The Batman lols

Lex ?!?

Batman laughs. Luthor spontaneously combusts.

Everyone backs away slowly.







Lex luthor spontaneously combusts in the opening 2 seconds wink

janus77
Batman hands down.

Batman would down Superman, if he were Superman's adversary yes.
Kryptonite his underpants!

spidermonkey
Originally posted by dawsey28
Because neither one needs the city.

Sure they do. wink

starfyredragon
If there were no metahumans?

They wouldn't even be fighting. The only reason Lex is a badguy is that he hates superman. He views superman as an affront to human pride and dignity, basically, by being all that, putting up an example that all humanity can't live up to, and thus will give up on.

As Lex sees it, Superman is stopping most members of humanity from 'becoming batman'. The only reason Lex becomes a villain is because Superman is there as a hero. (If superman was a villain - and probably if superman were nonexistant - Lex would likely be a hero.) He becomes a villian due to his obsession of defeating Superman and trying to become an example of what humanity is capable of.

So, assuming no metahumans, Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne/Batman would be on the same side, and wouldn't be fighting. They'd both focus on making the city better. It would quickly become the best city on the planet.

Unless....
Lex has a tendency to look at people in terms of their potential. Bruce has a tendency to look at people in terms of how likely they are to follow his own brand of justice.

I could see those two views clashing... Lex working on trying to slowly reform a bunch of criminals (often into bodyguard positions), bypassing the legal system altogether, and Bruce trying to 'bring them to justice'. I could easily see Bruce becoming the villain and Lex becoming the goodguy as Bruce goes around being the rich boy beating up on low income struggling peoples who have to bend the laws just to survive.

In which case, I expect batman would lose, and lose horribly. Since batman avoids killing, each person he defeated would be released from prison by Lex, and hired on to be a bodyguard to Lex. Then when Batman got to Lex, Lex would be surrounded by everyone who could give Batman a run for his money. All at once. With Lex leading them.

Aqua-pimp
Lex could own Bats easy in a no nonsense no piss fight..The man is richer..Smarter..actually the smartest or second smartest human dc character.. Mister terrific the third and Bats is somewhere around eight..I heard that Bats IQ was 192 and in the superman movies Lex Luthors IQ was 200 (And that was his retarded version)Lex has better tech..has more connections..He ain't Supermans archnemesis for nothing you know.. wink

dawsey28
Originally posted by starfyredragon
If there were no metahumans?

They wouldn't even be fighting. The only reason Lex is a badguy is that he hates superman. He views superman as an affront to human pride and dignity, basically, by being all that, putting up an example that all humanity can't live up to, and thus will give up on.



For the purposes of this thread, there ARE meta humans. They are just not allowed to be used by Batman or Lex Luthor for this particular fight.

tideoftime
Good debate here... four years and still no real answer.

Generally, they would be equal, overall, and it would mesh out to a 5/5 split (or, in comic land, Batman wins, but Lex always gets away).

Lex is more intelligent, generally more wealthy (specific storylines aside) and doesn't have Bruce's hesitancy about killing (CIS aside). Also, as a historic average, he has better tech.

Bruce is physically more capable, has better non-tech skills/knowledge, and is much better at being sneaky, both physically and in terms of detective/analytical skill. He also is better at handling situations where he doesn't have his gadgets than Lex is.

Tough debate. In a forum setting, I'll stick with 5/5, or Batman wins, but Lex always returns with a fallback plan.

dawsey28
I guess 5/5 is a good answer.

shokosugi
Batman's got Robin!

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