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personally i thought the action scenes were amazing, the emotions were definately there, when Anakin fought Obi-Wan the coreograph borrows from Samurai, Chinese, and Fencing styles from other movies.

Truly amazing i loved them. and i bow the lucas for making me feel that Star Wars has truly become a better Fantasy movie then ever before

You are not the only one. I felt the duel was awesome and it lived up to all the expectations. It had so much emotion in it. It was amazing to see.

Originally posted by fireyhope
personally i thought the action scenes were amazing, the emotions were definately there when Anakin fought Obi-Wan the coreograph borrows from Samurai, Chinese, and Fencing styles from other movies.

Truly amazing i loved them. and i bow the lucas for making me feel that Star Wars has truly become a better Fantasy movie then ever before

I completely agree,

I think and still do that the best Star Fighter Battle scene was ROTS.
Best Saber action a tie between Maul vs. Obi and Luke/Vader ESB
The best blaster shoot out AOTC between the Clone troops and the Genosians.
The best Surface Battle goes to ESB Hoth.

Originally posted by The Biker Scout
I think and still do that the best Star Fighter Battle scene was ROTS.
Best Saber action a tie between Maul vs. Obi and Luke/Vader ESB
The best blaster shoot out AOTC between the Clone troops and the Genosians.
The best Surface Battle goes to ESB Hoth.

i agree with you too

Maul vs obi and qui is still the best.

Originally posted by fireyhope
personally i thought the action scenes were amazing, the emotions were definately there, when Anakin fought Obi-Wan the coreograph borrows from Samurai, Chinese, and Fencing styles from other movies.

Truly amazing i loved them. and i bow the lucas for making me feel that Star Wars has truly become a better Fantasy movie then ever before


IMO the fighting scenes are to high fly swordys and they dance around too much these days. IF you watch back 4-6 you can see how each time there's a lightsaber duel, it's slow, as if each of them are contemplating the others' next move.

I agree the duel's in ep3 were just hack and slash,the choreography sucked and there were to many confusing close up shots.I can almost say they looked rushed.The whole movie seemed rushed jumping from 1 scene to the other every 30 seconds or so.The duel was way over-rated as so the movie.But yah it is the best of the PT.The best space battle is still Return of The Jedi,EP3 space battle had some pretty shots but there was no sense of urgency or suspense and no dog fights.

The choreography was kick ass. People don't fight with slow ass moves. A real sword fight would be quick. It would be to the quicker, and the fact this fight went on this long proved that they were masters. The fight was deadly. I think it was so fast, most people couldn't grasp it. The OT fights were slow and you could see what they were trying to do as they fought. These moves were so fast, you had NO IDEA what they were trying to do. I like it better that way, makes it more mystical.

Besides, if you were watching two swordsmen fighting, I bet you would see immensely swift movements that looked almost akward and too quick for the eye, much less understand what they were going for until one of them lost a limb or keeled over and fell to the ground lifeless.

Masterful Lucas!! A job well done and nicely shot.

Later!

Did anyone noticed when ani was chokeing obi-wan he had his lightsaber then had anakins @,@ mind boggleing.

i agree, eps 3 was the best of the swordfights! and the duel of fates in TPM is a second.

i rate the duels as this:

'The duel'
mace/ palps
the duel of fates
yoda/ sidious
yoda/ dooku
anakin/ dooku 2
anakin- obi/ dooku 1
obi/ grievous
vader/ luke ESB
vader/ luke ROTJ
obi/ vader ANH

did i miss any?

The best is luke in the death star fighting vader.. so much emotion and luke was under such terrible odds. Sidious talking shit... his friends are going to die at any moment, the rebellion is about to be annihilated. tEh bEst.

Though epIII had cool scenes and were very cool to look at... TOO SHORT with the exception of "The Duel"

Originally posted by Darth MoonPIE
The best is luke in the death star fighting vader.. so much emotion and luke was under such terrible odds. Sidious talking shit... his friends are going to die at any moment, the rebellion is about to be annihilated. tEh bEst.

Though epII had cool scenes and were very cool to look at... TOO SHORT with the exception of "The Duel"

Agreed I just LOVE when Luke comes out and goes crazy on Vader.... I can just imagine what Vader was thinking then lol....

For overall duel I'd have to go with "The Duel," but for that 30 seconds nothing can top it

Yoda vs Sidious is the best battle in SW history in my eyes.

2. "The Duel" between Obi and Anakin.
3. Duel of the fates with Maul Obi and Qui Gon.
4. Dooku vs Obi and Anakin part 2
5. Yoda vs Dooku
6. Mace vs Sidious
7. Vader vs Luke part 1
8. GG vs Obi
9. Vader vs Luke part 2
10. Obi vs Vader - ANH

Originally posted by fireyhope
personally i thought the action scenes were amazing, the emotions were definately there, when Anakin fought Obi-Wan the coreograph borrows from Samurai, Chinese, and Fencing styles from other movies.

Truly amazing i loved them. and i bow the lucas for making me feel that Star Wars has truly become a better Fantasy movie then ever before

I totally agree with you thumbs_up I loved all the fight scenes

1. Duel of Fates- TPM

2. Darth Vader vs Luke- TESB

3. Mace Windu vs Palpatine- ROTS

4. Yoda vs Palpatine-ROTS

5. Anakin Skywalker vs Obi Wan Kenobi- ROTS

ESB every time.
No fancy visual CGI ...thank god it wasnt around in 79 the way it is today.
I love the whole movement from the carbon freeze chamber to the.......i forgot what its called..but the spot where the reveal takes place.
It has emotion,real pain and it pisses all over the fancy acrobatics and cgi over load of the ROTS fight.
Having said that Maul Vs Obi Vs Qui is great.
Its the shit that comes inbetween that screws that up.

The Vader vs. Luke duel in ESB is indeed my favorite of all time. Anakin vs. Kenobi in ROTS is right behind.

Best starfighter battle goes to ANH. Come on, it was the Death Star Battle. It was intense!

Blaster shootout has to involve Han in some way, or Jango's defense against Kenobi.

And then Hoth's surface battle is the best.

Technically and choreography-wise, the PT has the better battles. They are not always that interesting though, storywise.

I really wished that in the Sidious vs Yoda duel the senate was about to be in session just to see the expression on the faces of the senators.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
1. Duel of Fates- TPM

2. Darth Vader vs Luke- TESB

3. Mace Windu vs Palpatine- ROTS

4. Yoda vs Palpatine-ROTS

5. Anakin Skywalker vs Obi Wan Kenobi- ROTS

6. Darth Vader vs Obi Wan Kenobi- ANH

7. Darth Vader vs Luke- ROTJ

8. Count Dooku vs Yoda- AOTC

the fight scenes were all far more intense in episode 3, it was amazingly done.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I really wished that in the Sidious vs Yoda duel the senate was about to be in session just to see the expression on the faces of the senators.

Sweet!

I like how the podium is rising up into the senate chamber as Palpy and Yoda are fighting, and when the camera zooms out, it shows them in the middle of the senate chamber, fighting for control of the galaxy, the chamber symbolizing the galaxy.

Very cool.

It was.

I still don't understand why Yoda left all of a sudden.

because he was beaten.

He was not, he just fell but was allright.

he was beaten, man. Palpy pwned him.

A little bit maybe... but not to the point of a battered Yoda. He looked fine to me.

Except by that point Yoda was most likely tired.. and also by that point, Sids was surrounded with guards. Yoda most likely could not fight against squads of Clones and fight Sideous at the same time, and remember he had also lost his lightsaber at that point. He had a window to take Sids out, when he was the least gaurded, and he didn't make the window.

Yeah yeah.... very cerebral explanations again. The PT has many scenes that need so much explanation to appreciate and understand it. Pretty sucky.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Except by that point Yoda was most likely tired.. and also by that point, Sids was surrounded with guards. Yoda most likely could not fight against squads of Clones and fight Sideous at the same time, and remember he had also lost his lightsaber at that point. He had a window to take Sids out, when he was the least gaurded, and he didn't make the window. exactly.

All the Jedi fail, except OB1... pretty sad.

depends on your POV.

Of course.

Lot of good fights in ep. 2 and ep. 3.

But the best is still in ep. 6 (Luke vs Vader vs Sidious).

Worst fight is Anakin vs Obi-Wan (Lucas made a MAJOR mistake):
At that point Anakin was far more powerful than Obi-Wan - Even though Obi-Wan knew Anakin well he would only have survived for a few minutes before he would have been wrapped out. (If Obi-Wan should win it should have been before Anakin became powerful). At this moment even Sidious would have problems against Anakin (Young Darth Vader).

Originally posted by Antaeus
Lot of good fights in ep. 2 and ep. 3.

But the best is still in ep. 6 (Luke vs Vader vs Sidious).

Worst fight is Anakin vs Obi-Wan (Lucas made a MAJOR mistake):
At that point Anakin was far more powerful than Obi-Wan - Even though Obi-Wan knew Anakin well he would only have survived for a few minutes before he would have been wrapped out. (If Obi-Wan should win it should have been before Anakin became powerful). At this moment even Sidious would have problems against Anakin (Young Darth Vader). did it ever occur to you that maybe Obi Wan knew all of Annie's moves, since he was his master?

like when Dooku owned Obi, remember? Dooku trained Qui Gon, Qui gon trained Obi, so Dooku knew what to expect.

Originally posted by Antaeus

Worst fight is Anakin vs Obi-Wan (Lucas made a MAJOR mistake):
At that point Anakin was far more powerful than Obi-Wan - Even though Obi-Wan knew Anakin well he would only have survived for a few minutes before he would have been wrapped out. (If Obi-Wan should win it should have been before Anakin became powerful). At this moment even Sidious would have problems against Anakin (Young Darth Vader).

There's so much epic phale in this paragraph I can't describe it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
did it ever occur to you that maybe Obi Wan knew all of Annie's moves, since he was his master?

like when Dooku owned Obi, remember? Dooku trained Qui Gon, Qui gon trained Obi, so Dooku knew what to expect.

Yes - and actually I think this is a very stupid argument (sorry to say).

No one know all the moves of another person (master or not) - and even if he did it may be impossible to do something about it (we see that in different sports all the time).

And Anakin knew Obi-Wan as well as Obi-Wan knew Anakin. The most powerful (best figher) would win this fight. Obi-Wan may win if Anakin was just a little bit more powerful. But at this point in the story Anakin was way better than Obi-Wan (he should have no chance at all). Lucas made a MAJOR mistake.

Originally posted by Antaeus
Yes - and actually I think this is a very stupid argument (sorry to say).

No one know all the moves of another person (master or not) - and even if he did it may be impossible to do something about it (we see that in different sports all the time).

And Anakin knew Obi-Wan as well as Obi-Wan knew Anakin. The most powerful (best figher) would win this fight. Obi-Wan may win if Anakin was just a little bit more powerful. But at this point in the story Anakin was way better than Obi-Wan (he should have no chance at all). Lucas made a MAJOR mistake. It's not a stupid argument, it's completely valid and applicable to the discussion at hand.

And just because Annie was more powerful doesnt mean he should have won. Obi Wan was older and more experienced, and he was fighting for the survival of the Jedi order. He showed up on Mustafar knowing that there was only one way to save the order, and tha was to kill Annie, and hope that Yoda killed Palpy.

By knowing this, he was able to defend himself against Annie.

YES, defend himself. Did you notice that Obi Wan is fighting a retreating battle throughout most of the duel? up until the end? It was all he could do to deflect Annie's blows and counterattack with his own. Why was he able to deflect Annie's blows, BECAUSE HE KNEW ANNIE AND KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN ANNIE ATTACKED. He trained Annie and knew Annie's strengths and weaknesses, he knew most likely where and when Annie would attack.

Knowledge is INDEED power.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's not a stupid argument, it's completely valid and applicable to the discussion at hand.

And just because Annie was more powerful doesnt mean he should have won. Obi Wan was older and more experienced, and he was fighting for the survival of the Jedi order. He showed up on Mustafar knowing that there was only one way to save the order, and tha was to kill Annie, and hope that Yoda killed Palpy.

By knowing this, he was able to defend himself against Annie.

YES, defend himself. Did you notice that Obi Wan is fighting a retreating battle throughout most of the duel? up until the end? It was all he could do to deflect Annie's blows and counterattack with his own. Why was he able to deflect Annie's blows, BECAUSE HE KNEW ANNIE AND KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN ANNIE ATTACKED. He trained Annie and knew Annie's strengths and weaknesses, he knew most likely where and when Annie would attack.

Knowledge is INDEED power.
It is impossible knowing ALL the moves of another person. And as I said. And even if one did (which is impossible) it may not help - every fighter, tennis player (or other in competition sports would know that).

The fight:
Anakin wrapped out Dooku in a very short time and he was much better than Obi-Wan.
Obi-Wan can of course defend him self - but it would just be a matter of a relatively short time then he would be wrapped out.

But Fair - you have your opinion and I got mine.

Originally posted by Antaeus
It is impossible knowing ALL the moves of another person. And as I said. And even if one did (which is impossible) it may not help - every fighter, tennis player (or other in competition sports would know that).

The fight:
Anakin wrapped out Dooku in a very short time and he was much better than Obi-Wan.
Obi-Wan can of course defend him self - but it would just be a matter of a relatively short time then he would be wrapped out.

But Fair - you have your opinion and I got mine. yes, impossible to know ALL their moves, but if you have a generalized idea of their fighting style, it certainly helps.

Annie was just as winded as Obi Wan was at the end, because he was expending more energy pressing the attack.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
yes, impossible to know ALL their moves, but if you have a generalized idea of their fighting style, it certainly helps.



On that we can agree.
Not that it change my opinion of what should have happen in that fight and that Lucas made a big mistake.

Originally posted by Antaeus
On that we can agree.
Not that it change my opinion of what should have happen in that fight and that Lucas made a big mistake. look at it this way. I think we can all see Obi wan fighting a retreating battle, more or less defensive most of the time, yes? who is exoending more energy? Annie, pressing the attack, or Obi wan, simply retreating and deflecting?

I know Obi Wan didnt plan this, but it still played out that way. In fact, Obi wan had to fight that way, because Annie was younger, faster, and more powerful.

Thinl back to Qui Gon vs. Maul. Maul fought a retreating battle, seperated master from padawan, then went on the offensive. did you see how tired Qui Gon looked at the end? Maul did this KNOWING the master would tire. Qui gon, IMO, was a better swordsman than Maul, but he had no gas left.

I see Obi Wan fighting with this same tactic, even though he didnt plan it.

OB1 was about 37 in ROTS, hardly an old man, like QGJ was.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
look at it this way. I think we can all see Obi wan fighting a retreating battle, more or less defensive most of the time, yes? who is exoending more energy? Annie, pressing the attack, or Obi wan, simply retreating and deflecting?

I know Obi Wan didnt plan this, but it still played out that way. In fact, Obi wan had to fight that way, because Annie was younger, faster, and more powerful.

Thinl back to Qui Gon vs. Maul. Maul fought a retreating battle, seperated master from padawan, then went on the offensive. did you see how tired Qui Gon looked at the end? Maul did this KNOWING the master would tire. Qui gon, IMO, was a better swordsman than Maul, but he had no gas left.

I see Obi Wan fighting with this same tactic, even though he didnt plan it.

I do understand your argument, but I do not agree. I still think that Lucas made a HUUUUGE mistake. In my opinion Obi-Wan should have been killed in a very short time - Anakin was WAY better. Obi-Wan should have absolutely no chance defending, attacking or what ever he did.

Originally posted by Antaeus
I do understand your argument, but I do not agree. I still think that Lucas made a HUUUUGE mistake. In my opinion Obi-Wan should have been killed in a very short time - Anakin was WAY better. Obi-Wan should have absolutely no chance defending, attacking or what ever he did. Anakin was WAY better than Obi Wan?....younger, more powerful, faster, yes. But Obi Wan had experience, and that makes up for a lot.

One could argue that Dooku owned Obi Wan because he was more experienced.

Then again, Annie owned Dooku, but he was younger.

Some fighters, whether it is sowrdsplay or hand to hand, just match up well with their opponent.

It is a never ending circle of if's, and's, but's and maybe's.....

If you spend 10+ years training someone how to fight yourself then yes it is possible to know enough about someone's fighting style to play it to your advantage.

Now, Anakin would have surely won against Obi-Wan if they kept on fighting; he has more stamina, strength, and speed as well as general skill. However, Obi-Wan knows Anakin's personality inside out and as such could use it against him. Obi-Wan was basically leading Anakin into a trap the entire time. he knew there would be a point were he would "have the high ground", and that Anakin wouldn't back done, because he's overconfident in his abilities. He'd do something stupid and it woudl cost him the fight, and it did.

That is the only reason why Anakin lost the fight, because Obi-Wan played him like a fiddle.

We each have our opinions - mine do not change even though I understand your arguments - you seems to think that it was okay that Obi-Wan did win - I do not (Anakin was way to powerful when they were fighting - the fight should have been before Anakin became extremely powerful).

History alone should tell you that being the most powerful does not = victory.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
If you spend 10+ years training someone how to fight yourself then yes it is possible to know enough about someone's fighting style to play it to your advantage.

Now, Anakin would have surely won against Obi-Wan if they kept on fighting; he has more stamina, strength, and speed as well as general skill. However, Obi-Wan knows Anakin's personality inside out and as such could use it against him. Obi-Wan was basically leading Anakin into a trap the entire time. he knew there would be a point were he would "have the high ground", and that Anakin wouldn't back done, because he's overconfident in his abilities. He'd do something stupid and it woudl cost him the fight, and it did.

That is the only reason why Anakin lost the fight, because Obi-Wan played him like a fiddle. RIGHT ON.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
History alone should tell you that being the most powerful does not = victory.

Define powerful.

No U.

Originally posted by General G
Define powerful. depends. are we talking military might, or individual might?

Bicker bicker

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
No U.

You said it, you define it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
depends. are we talking military might, or individual might?

Thats what I am trying to figure out...

And?

well that one took a nose dive.

Rather.

Well, there's also the matter of matching fighting styles. Like in soccer, sometimes great teams have big trouble defeating a particular weaker team everytime they meet. The great teams have more might, powerm quality whatever, but somehow they can still have trouble with particular opposing tactics.

For Star Wars that can be seen as the masters/sith use forms, where the litluns just swing about, it can throw off a master.

I think some ep3 fights were good like obi wan vs greivous but obi wan vs anakin was weird because anakin knew obi wan was planning to shish kabob him.

it was stupid

No he didn't.

Originally posted by queeq
Rather.

Well, there's also the matter of matching fighting styles. Like in soccer, sometimes great teams have big trouble defeating a particular weaker team everytime they meet. The great teams have more might, powerm quality whatever, but somehow they can still have trouble with particular opposing tactics. Hence why Obi Wan defeated Annie, one of the reasons anyway.

Well, it would be a nice way out of the complicated puzzle in comparing strengths between Yoda, mace, Dooku, Ob1 and Anakin. Just to save GL's butt.

He doesn't want to start a riot, people would disagree and complaing a lot.

Which is why we have forums.

Is that what this is?

We try.

I am sure you do.

I do.

And only you?

No... you make some attempts. Too bad you don't watch the movies very well.

That was one scene!!!

There is nothing better than the Luke/Vader fight.

Originally posted by General G
That was one scene!!!

But pivotal in our debate. A fairly crucial scene in that respect, in the oldest SW movie of them all. A fatal error.

That is true, but it can still be debated to support my side!

Your knowlegde of SW is now in dispute. So is your position as debater on SW matters.

you do love to be the winner in these little discussions!!!

Because I always am.

I did enjoy the quantity of fights in Ep 3.

But having just one real one entree fight in Ep 1 really made it stand out. The reactors were so bright it made it hard to see, but other than that it was a great fight and not chit-chatty.

So for the best quality of fights between lightsaber parties, it could be Ep 1.

Okay, one other major flaw is that when Obi-Wan ascends from the shaft he has like a full second to strike where Maul just turns around and stands there. I know he has to die for the plot, but give him some reaction for crying out loud, he wouldn't be that slow. He would be surprised and wouldn't have his other saber blade, so I can see him then being defeated in a couple of seconds in surprise, but just standing there? Lame. Lucas missed that one.

I missed the chitty-chatty. Not that they had much to talk about, but most OT fights are nice BECAUSE of the chitty- chatty.

Apart from the choreography, the EP1 fight didn't do anything to me. I still don't get why they were fighting in the first place.

Originally posted by queeq
Your knowlegde of SW is now in dispute. So is your position as debater on SW matters.

There is no dispute, it was one flaw.

Originally posted by queeq
I missed the chitty-chatty. Not that they had much to talk about, but most OT fights are nice BECAUSE of the chitty- chatty.

Apart from the choreography, the EP1 fight didn't do anything to me. I still don't get why they were fighting in the first place.

He was a Sith...and Sith=bad apparently.

They fought because the Jedi couldn't allow Maul to obliterate the Naboo party led by Amidala, and Maul couldn't allow the Jedi to steamroll through the feckless droids to the Viceroy and lose him. He also didn't want to have to take them on in the circular throne room, but met them at his place of choosing.

So they silently agreed to a duel... of the Fates! Let's get it on!

They probably couldn't have talked about much...

Obi or Q: "Why have the Sith returned? Are you the master or the apprentice? Why has the Trade Federation done this? Where is the Viceroy?"
Maul: "Die in a fire!"
or
"I am going to bleed you both out. Unfortunately I have to get your heart racing so you'll do it faster, but fortunately my lightsaber won't draw blood so you'll meet my fangs!"

huh???

When he's cut in half

Obi-Wan: "Looking back ... I know you weren't after The Chosen One or Anakin, but as you came at him in your speeder would you have killed him with the saber? That sure would've changed things."
Maul, wheezing: "EU! EU!"

Singe is a new novelist!


Originally posted by singe_101
They fought because the Jedi couldn't allow Maul to obliterate the Naboo party led by Amidala, and Maul couldn't allow the Jedi to steamroll through the feckless droids to the Viceroy and lose him. He also didn't want to have to take them on in the circular throne room, but met them at his place of choosing.

So they silently agreed to a duel... of the Fates! Let's get it on!


Well, here's the point. Maul is only there to fight the Jedi. There are tons of battle droids around to fight the soldiers and Amidala. So what ARE they fighting about? And what are the Fates at stake? Prolly it's just that QGJ's death means Anakin will fall to the Dark Side. But for EP1 storyline that's stretching it a bit.

And since no one at the end understand what the heck was going on (including us: why did Padme have to sign a treaty, what was the treaty about, how did the treaty fit in Sidious's plan? etc. etc.) it is an odd fight. The only way to understand it a little is do a lot of background reading.

I think the pressing concern is that the people of Naboo are starving but they won't surrender, either. It's like a sloooow Death Star.

Kind of bleh but whatever.

I am so confused...

So 2008 will be the same as 2007 for you.

It seems to be starting out as so...maybe you should be making more sense so it can be different.

Oh, so I am the problem now.

So it would seem.

Easy way out, G.

Sometimes it is the best way.

Not this time.

No? That's a shame.

For you.

For you...because actually, that is the right way.

Right? You're a droid... what do you know about right and wrong?

Logic sensors

They are new.

They don't work. Just like this thread. CLOSING