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ok lets get this out of the way.
Did mace win or was palpy faking that he was losing

I've spent the better part of the past two days arguing about this.... sigh

My opinion:

Sidious was faking being beaten by Mace. Sidious knew that Anakin would come so he made it look like Mace was gonna kill him. Sidious knew that Anakin seeing a Jedi master suposedly assassanating his mentor would turn him to the darkside.

oh yeah lol... and at first I was adament that he faked it, but now I am sitting on the fence with no clear direction as to which way I'll fall

I think that Mace is, in general, a better swordsman than Sidious, but I feel that Palpatine played up his anguish in the end, there.

It was obvious he was faking to me..the way he was watching Anakin's reactions..and finally when Anakin did assist, Sidious had more than enough power to finish Mace off.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
oh yeah lol... and at first I was adament that he faked it, but now I am sitting on the fence with no clear direction as to which way I'll fall Affected your judgement, I have!

i think mace beat palp.....theres arguments both ways...but during their whole fight, mace had the better of him...things just went pear shaped when anakin came along...

how did sidious get his saber back btw? mace kicked it out the window

Caught it with the force while Ani and Mace were yelling at each other....

you taking the piss or are you serious? i didnt see that

Couldnt have, he dropped before Anakin even entered, another reason he looked helpless is because Ani never knew he had a weapon.

excellent point.... consider this deeply will I....

Originally posted by Mist
you taking the piss or are you serious? i didnt see that I didn't see it either, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I never see Obi-Wan take a dump in all 6 movies, but I feel pretty certain he did HUNDREDS of times during the course of the saga!!

Do we really need another thread on this?



Palpatine was faking as far as I'm concerned.

well of course he is faking right after Anakin cuts maces hand off palpatine shoots lighning at him and just gets up with no damage of tiredness

Hah, people who think the same as me. Yeah, I've been arguing this as well.

Palpatine was faking. It seemed so obvious that he was faking in order to manipulate Anakin.

Were you guys watching the movie? I know I was, and it was pretty blatantly obvious that Mace legitimately beat Sidious. As for the whole "he had more than enough energy to force lightning mace out the window"- that would probably have something to do with the fact that Anakin held Mace up for a couple minutes to debate. It wouldn't have really mattered how energetic he was at that point had he been dead 5 minutes prior like he should have been.

Palps got this ass handed to him by Mace...and went scurrying away as fast as possible...FACT.

The force lightening struggle...Palpy was playing it big time...I don't think it took everything out of him as he still had so much "POWER....UNLIMITED POWER!" afterwards...and he gives a satisfying *sigh* after "Mace Window" meets his maker.

Oh, I'll admit that Palps DID get his ass kicked by Mace. But he did not seem nearly as weak as he was claiming to be.

i am suprised to see this many people say sids was faking his loss
don't let the interpration of the author of the movie book cloud your mind or the fact that your a sids fan. You watch the movie and it is incredibley clear mace won. Remember the fight. Anikin is not even there yet and mace has him on the ground light saber facing him. His lightning can't even save him and he severley deforms his face even trying to use it against mace. Hes lucky Mace didn't bring anikin, otherwise it would not have even been half of a contest. If mace would have brought him anikin would have seen for himself who was the agresser. Mace and Anikin together would have used Sids as a ping pong ball if he would have tried to step, as it was he lost horribley to mace anyway.

Originally posted by adamrubin
well of course he is faking right after Anakin cuts maces hand off palpatine shoots lighning at him and just gets up with no damage of tiredness Yes!!!! Not weak, but much stronger than before!! He blasted his ass like half a mile away!!!

he was hammin up his loss to get anikin to help him but he surley lost regardless of him milkin it fro all it was worth

this is a matter of opinion question really...

ok, mace DID end up kicking palps in the face and making him lose his saber...that was not palps being tricky or anything, however i do think still that he could have beaten windo even without his saber. and was playing cause anakin came in when he did.

a simple force push to knock windu away from him (out of rage to use his saber since palps no longer had one) and some crazy force lightning and he would have won.

thats windu*

range*

I suppose it won't be proven either way..but I agree he was faking. Sidious would've reacted differently had Anakin not arrived..though I'm sure he sensed him coming.

Either way..Agen and Saesee suck. I wish Kit had held on longer though..I've always liked him.

Really! Do you guys think that Agen, Kit and Saesee were padawans??? They were MASTERS who were taken out in SECONDS by Sids, who then got it on with Mace!! This element has been left out of every page of these arguments! Sidious didn't face off against Mace Windu...he faced off against 4 Jedi MASTERS, of which only Mace could hold on for a moment longer. Sidious was SO the most powerfull entity in this encounter!!!

they were just sad

Shit! They were just dead!!

i was strongly convinced after watching the movie it was lucas intention that Sids lost and the only reason Sids lived to make the empire was because of Anikin's turn to the darkside. Period
I thought it was pretty obvios and not too much room to read into anything else.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
they were just sad

they were pathetic cannon fodder to show you Sids CAN fight and he IS dangerous. But he still got smacked down by Mace who is super ube in combat.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
i was strongly convinced after watching the movie it was lucas intention that Sids lost and the only reason Sids lived to make the empire was because of Anikin's turn to the darkside. Period
I thought it was pretty obvios and not too much room to read into anything else. I think otherwise. I think that GL, who spent 9 years and 3 movies showing us what a complete and utter master manipulator Palps was , was just showcasing the final strokes of his master scheme.

sure palps is the masta, but i think people give him TOO MUCH credit.

of course they do... think about his death. His death is the perfect example that he's NOT THAT GREAT

yea sidios KNEW that anikin was coming and was going to save him so he put himself in a position where he could get killed at any second by mace, but when vader was standing right besides him when he was zapping Luke he was completley unaware he was about to be bantha poodoo.
I don't see that.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
of course they do... think about his death. His death is the perfect example that he's NOT THAT GREAT Shiz, that was 25 frikkin years later!!! Thats like saying any great warrior/leader wasn't really great because they were EVENTUALLY defeated!!

In ROTS, Yoda is around 880 years old. From his aged appearence, we can infer that he is certainly getting on in years. This fact allows us to speculate that his death in ROTJ at approximately 900 is, in fact, relatively in line with his natural life span and not the result of unexpected illness or some other cause. Therefore, when Yoda fights Dooku and Sidious, he has completed 880/900, or 97.8% of his life. Let us, for the sake of arguement, and because we are not completely certain of Yoda's lifespan, drop this to 90%, thus giving a handicap to our calculations.

We then look at Sidious. George Lucas stated during the making of TPM that he and Palpatine were approximately the same age. Lucas was 53 at the time. Given that, he is approximately 65-70 during AOTC and ROTS. 20 years later, he would be approximately 90. According to the Official Site, Palpatine is human, and therefore would have a lifespan of 100 years or so (given modern lifespans coupled with the advanced medical technology availible in the Star Wars universe). If he is 90, then he has used 90/100 or 90% of his natural life span by ROTJ. Further, this does not even take into account the fact that as a person who uses the force, and who as stated by Palpatine himself in ROTS learned many secrets of life from his master.

If Yoda is able to, at 90% old, do what he did in AOTC and ROTS, then Palpatine has NO EXCUSES.

That may be the most thought out post in KMC history, he did mathematical equations factoring in a fictional universe.

Well said.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
this is a matter of opinion question really...

ok, mace DID end up kicking palps in the face and making him lose his saber...that was not palps being tricky or anything, however i do think still that he could have beaten windo even without his saber. and was playing cause anakin came in when he did.

a simple force push to knock windu away from him (out of rage to use his saber since palps no longer had one) and some crazy force lightning and he would have won.

I agree with you 100%. Sids would have beaten Mace even if he didnt have a saber.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
i was strongly convinced after watching the movie it was lucas intention that Sids lost and the only reason Sids lived to make the empire was because of Anikin's turn to the darkside. Period
I thought it was pretty obvios and not too much room to read into anything else.

Agreed. There are two truly pivotal moments over the course of the six movies: Anakin's turning on the Jedi to save Sidious, and Vader's turning on Sidious to save Luke. This is a blatant, obvious parallel on far, far too many levels to be a coincidence. In order for this to be true, however, Palpatine must have needed Anakin in order to survive. Anything less throws the entire theme of the six movies out of whack. Anakin's actions were what directly allowed for both the beginning and the end of the Empire. Without the former, the latter loses all significance, and the theme of redemption is partially ruined.

*Sigh*

Did Sidious relying on Anakin yes but it wasnt in the lightsabre duel. The lightsabre duel was well over by the time Anakin came in. Mace bested Sidious swordsman ship. I will quote something i read about Jackson and his character Mace Windu dying ...

"On his possible death in Ep. III, Jackson explained to Lucas that he didnt mind dying as long as he went out cool."

That was taken from that stupid 'Flick' book they gave me when I went to see it for my third time. How cool would it be to go out knowing your character bested a Sith Lord?

Sidious got beat with a lightsabre. Go back and watch it. Sidious was not holding back on the three Jedi Masters that died and he was not holding back on Mace. Only reason he needed Anakin is because he did get beat.

Ok ... This is the last time I am doing this ... Haha!

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
In ROTS, Yoda is around 880 years old. From his aged appearence, we can infer that he is certainly getting on in years. This fact allows us to speculate that his death in ROTJ at approximately 900 is, in fact, relatively in line with his natural life span and not the result of unexpected illness or some other cause. Therefore, when Yoda fights Dooku and Sidious, he has completed 880/900, or 97.8% of his life. Let us, for the sake of arguement, and because we are not completely certain of Yoda's lifespan, drop this to 90%, thus giving a handicap to our calculations.

We then look at Sidious. George Lucas stated during the making of TPM that he and Palpatine were approximately the same age. Lucas was 53 at the time. Given that, he is approximately 65-70 during AOTC and ROTS. 20 years later, he would be approximately 90. According to the Official Site, Palpatine is human, and therefore would have a lifespan of 100 years or so (given modern lifespans coupled with the advanced medical technology availible in the Star Wars universe). If he is 90, then he has used 90/100 or 90% of his natural life span by ROTJ. Further, this does not even take into account the fact that as a person who uses the force, and who as stated by Palpatine himself in ROTS learned many secrets of life from his master.

If Yoda is able to, at 90% old, do what he did in AOTC and ROTS, then Palpatine has NO EXCUSES. Gah!! Age is relative to species and cannot be compared equally!! A Tortugas turtle lives longer than a human, but an Ant is 10,000 times stronger based on his size, weight, and load bearing capability, and is lucky to live ayear!!

Originally posted by Darth Plagueis
Gah!! Age is relative to species and cannot be compared equally!! A Tortugas turtle lives longer than a human, but an Ant is 10,000 times stronger based on his size, weight, and load bearing capability, and is lucky to live ayear!!

*Shakes hand in the air*

Them freaking power hungry ants!

That is correct, but an ant at the end of it's lifespan loses just as much physical strength as any other creature. No creature simply maintains all of it's strength until the end of it's lifespan....

You ever had a dog that got old? Did it keep on running around and playing fetch until it died or did it get all tired and mopey?

Doesn't matter. I shot it out the window like any good MASTER would.

Either way, I think we can all agree that age has affected Yoda quite a bit, hence his using a cane to walk and having generally impaired mobility up until he actually fights (an endeavor in which he uses intimate knowledge of the force and pure force of will to overcome his age barriers). So the original point of whoever made it still stands.

Sure. 900 years and he can't get over a speech impediment??? Thats why he's in a swamp for 20 years while Sidious is living the effin high life as ruler of...um...oh yeah, EVERYTHING!!!

Mace "not going out like some punk" doesn't necessarily mean he beat Sidious. He fought a valiant battle to destroy the Dark Lord. When the other three Masters were defeated he didn't run like a coward. Not to say he wasn't a challenge for Sidious, but him saying that doesn't prove that Sidious was defeated.

Originally posted by Darth Plagueis
Sure. 900 years and he can't get over a speech impediment??? Thats why he's in a swamp for 20 years while Sidious is living the effin high life as ruler of...um...oh yeah, EVERYTHING!!!

If you're serious that really hurts your credibility....

Yeah, goddamn. I kinda respected your arguments up until now, but another post or two like that, and you'll make a worthy addition to my ignore list.

Delta 62: I agree that SLJ's statement doesn't prove that Mace defeated Sidious. What exactly transpired in the film, however, does.

Sidious would voluntarily let Mace melt his face?

From what I thought, Sidious is not the same age as Yoda. Sidious is closer to 400.

Yoda has had over 800 years to prefect his ways in the force and the ways of the Jedi. You think he would not be able to defeat a Sith Master...??? Fools


No, Sidious wasn't defeated by Mace at all. That's why the Sith Master has an Apprentice to aide him in his conquest to keep his power.

Incase you missed out, Yoda took on Sidous. It ended in what I would call a kind of stalemate in Yoda's favor. Still Sidious took a harsh beating from Yoda.

Just for you fans that think that Sidious was pretending to loose.

"if so powerful you are, why escape"

If Sidious didn't know Anakin would come why did he let him go and tell Mace?

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
If you're serious that really hurts your credibility.... Oh please! You can't argue the age issue and then disallow a senility comment (meant in jest, I might add)...and my friend, I left credibility at the door when I checked in!

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
If Sidious didn't know Anakin would come why did he let him go and tell Mace?

Because he underestimated the Jedi, and Mace in particular. Foreshadowing to his eventual downfall.

Originally posted by mtryder
Because he underestimated the Jedi, and Mace in particular. Foreshadowing to his eventual downfall. After a TWENTY-FIVE YEAR UNCONTESTED RULE!!!!

He didnt underestimate the Jedi, he foresaw everythig that would happen. He counted to Anakins trust to the Jedi to tell them that he was indeed the Sith Lord. He was even waiting in his Chambers for them to come and "try" to arrest him. He also counted on Anakin's love for Padme, and realized that he was the only one who could teach him how to save her. Palpy knew that that would overrule the Jedi order thus changing Anakin to the darkside by now allowing anything to hapen to Palps.

^ I agree.

The emperor wanted Luke! Same damn pattern!

I still think at that moment when mace supposivly had Palp down would of been a good chance for Ani to knock him out or slaughter him. But the tides turned when you think of the letdown that Mace did to Ani earlyer. And after the elimination of Mace, I also thought Palp put Ani under some sort of 'Dark Side' spell/ trance/ sith mind trick or somthing.

Not really... Anakin just wanted to do everything for Padme, but once you start down the downside you stay on it.

and about the faking issue, okay good arguments for both side i just want to add one more.

Sidious ran away from Yoda... IF he could have beaten Mace easily even when he was down why did he fear Yoda so much? Why did he want to run away? I mean if you can beat the second without any problems why run from the first he can't be all that much more powerful.

Now I am saying without any trouble because why risk your life for turning Anakin? Sidious doesn't seem like one that would let things over to chance.

right...lets look at the evidence

from episode 2

"im grateful to be obi wans apprentice...he's as wise as master yoda and as powerful as master windu"

does this imply that windu is more powerful than yoda?

perhaps

palps beat yoda?...mace beats palps?...

lets look at what happened at the end of windu vs palps fight

palps is having the force lightning deflected into his face and he is saying

"i cant hold this much longer anakin...im too weak"...

anakin then gives windu the chop and palps suddenly changes to screaming

"power...UNLIMITED POWER"

chucks mace out the windu then stands up as if he has just slipped on a banana skin rather than having his face fried off

I don't see what that line has to do with it. It just imply's that Obi is as powerful as Windu not that Windu is more powerful then Yoda... It implies nothing.

Its like saying he's as smart as *smart guy* and as weak as *weak guy* doesn't matter at all

Sidious was FAking it,

Did you even see in the fight when Sidious has his sabre point towards Mace's chest? he could of easily struck him down.

Denki thats all part of Maces' style give the dark opponent what they think is an opening then use it agaisnt them when they try to go fer it...you notice he opened himself up more than once

I have spoken of this in other threads but after thinking about it some more i belive the truth is that both arguments are correct. Was sidous fakin Yes. Did Mace beat him Yes. Let me explain.
Altho Sidous has the ability to forsee future events these are not written in stone he can only see the possibilites.He may have know that when the Jedi come for him Anakin would also come drawn by the lure of power to protect his wife.
I belive that Sidous may have been stalling Mace waiting for anakin to show up.I aslo think that he underestimated how powerful Mace was and when he cut the wind he may have been planning an easy end to the fight should things turn sour.
I however do not think sidous meant to drop his saber this took him by suprise he was really afraid there for a second then when he saw anakin come in he was kinda relived and started playing into his act as the victim.
So its sort of a half and half that yes he was stalling but also yes Mace beat him cause he underestimated Mace and was takin by suprise.
Remb not everything he plans turns out the way he wants.He wanted Padme to sign th treaty on Naboo in EP1 but she manged to escape and he used it to get elected to offfice.He didnt plan it that way but he took advantage of it anayway.

pretty well said....sept its not half and half...Sids thought he would dominate anyone before him..Mace first proved different......undeniably...he beat Sids.....hands down...or cut off by annie in his case...lol

Yeah I really started off thinking Palpatine was faking it, and I was VERY strong in that belief, but after all the arguements no I doubt he was. Now we seem to have GL confirmation that the lightning actually burned his face and it wasn't his choice to make it that way/it had always been that way underneath or anything, and if that's so there's no way we can imagine Palpatine let his face get messed up as part of his plan, especially given how totally arrogant he is in thinking he can defeat anybody. The fact that he runs from Yoda but not from FOUR Jedi, including Mace makes this clear. He started off thinking he could take on four, or forty Jedi himself if he had to, but was scared to death after he barely escaped Mace so he didn't want to go through it again with Yoda.

Oh I agree with u Sithkiller that Sidious is arrogant and thinks he can defeat anyone but I also belive that he knew Anakin would come and wanted to hold out till Anakin was there so ge could prove to Anakin that the Jedi are up to no good. I also belive he underestimated how powerfull Mace is and thats why he lost he didnt mean to loose his saber but it happned. w/o a saber its hard to fight another Master.. even yoda had to run away cause his saber was destroyed when hit with sith lightning.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Yeah I really started off thinking Palpatine was faking it, and I was VERY strong in that belief, but after all the arguements no I doubt he was. Now we seem to have GL confirmation that the lightning actually burned his face and it wasn't his choice to make it that way/it had always been that way underneath or anything, and if that's so there's no way we can imagine Palpatine let his face get messed up as part of his plan, especially given how totally arrogant he is in thinking he can defeat anybody. The fact that he runs from Yoda but not from FOUR Jedi, including Mace makes this clear. He started off thinking he could take on four, or forty Jedi himself if he had to, but was scared to death after he barely escaped Mace so he didn't want to go through it again with Yoda.

good points for sure. I can defonatley see that. After you underestimate your opponent and get a scar that covers your entire face you begin to think about what your doing a little different. Now ehn yoda came to confront him he knew that yoda was no average jedi and maybe even as strong or stronger than mace so he was trying to get the frek out of there.
I guess people just love sids, no matter what you want to say they will always contend that sids would have beaten mace, not matter how obvios it was he got pawned by Mace

I know... I can't believe the arguement I had trying to prove that Sidious' defeat in Ep 6 was pathetic and if he was really powerful that wouldn't have happened like it did.... I had to go so far as to do MATH jawdrop

YES IF YOU BELIVE THAT SIDS IS INVINCIBLE AND ALL KNOWING PLEASE WATCH EPISODE 6.

Originally posted by Fishy
I don't see what that line has to do with it. It just imply's that Obi is as powerful as Windu not that Windu is more powerful then Yoda... It implies nothing.

Its like saying he's as smart as *smart guy* and as weak as *weak guy* doesn't matter at all

then why didn't he just say..."he's as wise and powerful as master yoda"

what it means, IMO, is that Mace is the greatest swordsman in the Jedi Order, probably slightly better than Yoda. Thus, he is the greatest swordsman in the galaxy. Yoda's ability in the force, however, is *far* superior to Mace's, which leaves intact Yoda's status as the greatest and most potent Jedi.

GL says Obi Wan kenobi is the best Swordsman in the Jedi Order as of ep3. This is why Obi wan was sent to take down GG. That does not mean he is the most powerful because he uses a mainly defensive form 3 style of saber combat.
While Anakin(form 5) and Mace(form 7) use more aggresive styles of fighting.

For those of you so hung up on who is more powerfull than who and this or that evidence check out what Nick Gallard ( the stunt coordinator and sword master on Ep3) has to say about saber combat and skill levels.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/production/beacon126.html

he was so faking mace is a terribal fighter and palipine was doing amazing vs yoda

Mace windu was terribal! no flips or good moves at all...who said he was the best?

No sid even said vader would be more powerfull than himselff

I don't know how anybody is thinking that Sidious wasn't faking, I mean he goes from saying," I'm so weak, help me" in a little weak voice, then in an instant he's yelling,"Unlimited Power" and frying Mace, and after he's done he hops right back up on his feet. Sure doesn't seem like he was that weak to me. It was all part of his plan to get Anakin to kill Mace and start his turn.

exactly

Enough ...

Go back and watch the flipping movie. Sidious tries TWICE and I mean TWICE to thrust his lightsabre into Mace. If Mace wasnt the swordsmen he was then Mace would have died like the other three worthless Jedi on the floor. Sidious was trying to kill Mace Windu. What Sidious didnt realize was that Mace is a bad ass. Mace beat him in that lightsabre fight and Sidious only used Anankin because Sidious knew he was fixing to be destroyed.

blowup

Start his turn? Have you not been watching the other movies? Anakin first step to the dark side was with the sand people, the next step was killing Dooku and the last step was not killing Sidious when Anakin found out. Anakin was already turned to the dark side.

Oh im sorry ... Anakin didnt kill Mace Windu. Anakin punked him like old cry boy Anakin does.

"It was all part of his plan to get Anakin to kill Mace and start his turn."
-cal31

Go back mate and watch the movie

I disagree.... that was the first major...but he was always arrogent and hia love and fear for padmeturned him...its ironic how if he never turned she would of never died...she alowed herself to die because of him turning

Originally posted by Kenpokarate 2
Start his turn? Have you not been watching the other movies? Anakin first step to the dark side was with the sand people, the next step was killing Dooku and the last step was not killing Sidious when Anakin found out. Anakin was already turned to the dark side.

Oh im sorry ... Anakin didnt kill Mace Windu. Anakin punked him like old cry boy Anakin does.

"It was all part of his plan to get Anakin to kill Mace and start his turn."
-cal31

Go back mate and watch the movie I have "mate". Why don't you be a member for longer than a week, and then you can talk. I've seen more times than you have, and it started his true turn to the dark side and become his apprentice. And what the hell is up with you thinking that kiling Count Dooku was evil, but then you think he should've killed an unarmed Sidious. Make up your minde already "mate". Everything he had done that was against the Jedi code up until that point was not truely evil, I mean killing the people who killed his mom, who wouldn't do that, and killing the Seperatist leader who cut your arm off, understandable, but killing one of his fellow Jedi, that was his first truely evil act.

double post.

I agree with Kenpo. Even Palpy and Yoda knew that what Anakin did to the sand people was leading him to the wrong path. Yoda senced the pain, and sids senced the anger and hatred.

Sids knew that the Jedi were going to try and areest him. Thats why he wasnt surprised when they came into his chambers. He was waiting on them. He was stalling while fighting Mace. Why? Because he was counting on Anakin to come and see how the Jedi were indeed trying to control things.

Sids is master manipulator and he knew that Anakin need him to teach him how to save Padme. Thats why he was playing possum and was faking the whole time. "Im soo weak" Bullshit. Anakin played into the trap lovely.

Didn't anyone notice how "un-Sith lord like" it was to crawl feverously away from your opponent? And beg for help? Not to mention Ian was really hammin' it up there. Overacting in such a way as too convey to the audience that he's lying. Much like Dooku in AOTC when Obi-wan's been captured and he says "Oh no my friend, this has all been a mistake, a terrible mistake". And you know he's lying. He's totally overacting to show his deciet. Its a very old acting trick used on the stage a lot. Palps was clearly faking it. And no minute of rest lets someone whose been beaten jump up with THAT much energy. And the whole "unlimited power" line was almost a huge middle finger to Mace, basically telling Mace that the Sith were unbeatable. All that scene was meant to do was show how warped Anakin had become and give him his final test of the Darkside; to mirror his choice of the Empreror or Luke in ROTJ. Palps put that test there for Anakin, and Anakin did exactly what he was supposed to do.

I can't believe people are like "didn't you see him crawl away? He looked defeated!" Because thats the friggin' gag people! Its supposed to LOOK like he's defeated. Its called ACTING. All of you who believe he was defeated fell for his deception, much like Anakin did. Pretty funny actually.

Lol very good mephistodesigns. Couldnt have said it better myself.

Im sure if people on these forums were Anakin, they be turned to the darkside as well. Its clear that they all bought the "Im soo weak" line.

I know, what Sith in their right mind would honestly whine like that? And then telling mace "ulimate power' was basically 'you were always gonna loose b! I got this s**t handled'.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Didn't anyone notice how "un-Sith lord like" it was to crawl feverously away from your opponent? And beg for help? Not to mention Ian was really hammin' it up there. Overacting in such a way as too convey to the audience that he's lying. Much like Dooku in AOTC when Obi-wan's been captured and he says "Oh no my friend, this has all been a mistake, a terrible mistake". And you know he's lying. He's totally overacting to show his deciet. Its a very old acting trick used on the stage a lot. Palps was clearly faking it. And no minute of rest lets someone whose been beaten jump up with THAT much energy. And the whole "unlimited power" line was almost a huge middle finger to Mace, basically telling Mace that the Sith were unbeatable. All that scene was meant to do was show how warped Anakin had become and give him his final test of the Darkside; to mirror his choice of the Empreror or Luke in ROTJ. Palps put that test there for Anakin, and Anakin did exactly what he was supposed to do.

I can't believe people are like "didn't you see him crawl away? He looked defeated!" Because thats the friggin' gag people! Its supposed to LOOK like he's defeated. Its called ACTING. All of you who believe he was defeated fell for his deception, much like Anakin did. Pretty funny actually. Well put. It's amazing how dumb and ignorant some people are on these boards.

word.

I used to think that way but I have spent the better part of 24 hours straight on here realizing that at besy my belief is questionable.

We have Lucas confirming that the lightning is what turned his face ugly. That begs the question why would he let himself get that messed up for a lie, when it was totally unecessary and Anakin would have turned anyways. Yes he then showed it to the senate as evidence, but he is simply playing things to his benefit, just as he played Amidala's UNINTENDED escape from Naboo in TPM to his own designs.

Look, he loses his saber before Anakin gets there, and so he tries to fry Mace because he's desperate. What if Anakin doesn't do anything? What if Mace wasn't such a bumbling idiot and just stabbed Palpatine instead of rambling on dramatically? He was being overpowered dramatically before Anakin gets there, and had plenty of chance to actually die, any given second during that time he could have. Do you really think he put himself at that risk?

Further, look at this post by mtyrdr:



FURTHERMORE, Ian overacted in ROTJ, too, but he wasn't lying to anybody then....

I already covered what mtydr said in your quote. See below:


"All that scene was meant to do was show how warped Anakin had become and give him his final test of the Darkside; to mirror his choice of the Empreror or Luke in ROTJ. Palps put that test there for Anakin, and Anakin did exactly what he was supposed to do.

I can't believe people are like "didn't you see him crawl away? He looked defeated!" Because thats the friggin' gag people! Its supposed to LOOK like he's defeated. Its called ACTING. All of you who believe he was defeated fell for his deception, much like Anakin did. Pretty funny actually. "

It would've been really funny for him if Anakin got caught in traffic and Windu impaled him.

he would have just electrocuted him or som'n. I'm sure he had a back up plan, you don't toss hundreds of Sith's planning from over a thousand years on a risky gamble like that.

Furthermore, I don't even like Mace Windu....

And furthermore, why is it that everytime people argue against this they ignore the fact that his face got toasted crispy and never try to counter it? Before at least that had some merit, but since we now have Lucas confirming that is indeed what happened....

apparently he didn't care. I still think he looked like that all the time and the lightening just tore his "facade" away. Otherwise his eyes would always have been all Sith like. He certainly wanted Ani to think Mace was damaging Palps. And I don't like Mace either, he's a dick. Glad they handled him.

You still thinking that is in direct contradiction of GL and is on par with my still thinking that Luke is a bantha

WTF? Lucas just said the lighttening made him look like that. I said the lightening made him reveal his true face, so the lightening did technically make him look like that. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.

And besides, you didn't even understand TPM until I explained it to you a couple weeks ago, and don't try to deny it, I can post your pm's, so I'm listening to you why?

why do people take so personaly when you point out the emp was punked like a little biotch???
Of course he was hammin it up when anikin arrived, he needed to ham it up in order to survive. Nonetheless without anikins intervention the movie made it so clear he got punked. I thought maybe it was possible that he was faking before watching the movie but after watching it i saw how apparent it was meant to come across sids got walloped and anikins choice to intervene ultimatley caused the empire.

yeah right. this guys taken care of every detail, he tells Ani he's a Sith Lord, lets him leave. Knows SOMEBODY is gonna come try to stop him, so he'd plan for the worst: Yoda or Mace. You tellin' me he really would just take a gamble that big when he ALWAYS has everything under control? I just really don't understand why this isn't more accepted. He ALWAYS has it all under control. WHY would he leave something THIS CRUCIAL up to CHANCE?

I agree that he planned on Mace coming. What he didn't plan on was Mace kicking his ass. Simple foreshadowing to the fact that arrogance would be his downfall.

Originally posted by mtryder
I agree that he planned on Mace coming. What he didn't plan on was Mace kicking his ass. Simple foreshadowing to the fact that arrogance would be his downfall.

exactly that was why he was so eager on leaving the fight against yoda
" if so powerfull in the darkide you are....then why leave????"
lol

THAT was funny. But he still lost...

Yoda had the advantage in his battle with Palpatine, then left when he realized that an entire squad of clone troopers were coming. He hardly "lost".

nobody lost my friend, where did you get that from.
it was a stale mate, yoda said he failed because sids isn't dead, but neitehr is yoda. Did you see how Yoda threw that power surge back at him?
Stronger in the force he was!!!

ummm....well, let's see, who ran the galaxy for 30 years? Oh thats right, Sidious did. And where did Yoda go? Oh that's right....HE HID ON DAGOBAH. He lost. I love Yoda, but lets have a little honesty here.

That has absolutely no impact whatsoever on who won and who lost the fight. Sidious ruled the Empire because of a number of things not relating to the duel. And Yoda waited on Dagobah not out of fear, but so that he could train luke. Two very different things.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
ummm....well, let's see, who ran the galaxy for 30 years? Oh thats right, Sidious did. And where did Yoda go? Oh that's right....HE HID ON DAGOBAH. He lost. I love Yoda, but lets have a little honesty here.

i don't think yoda wants to keep pushing it, not on the account of sids either, i would just assume sids will have his security buffed up from now on

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
ummm....well, let's see, who ran the galaxy for 30 years? Oh thats right, Sidious did. And where did Yoda go? Oh that's right....HE HID ON DAGOBAH. He lost. I love Yoda, but lets have a little honesty here.

You Fool,

Who ran the Galaxy for 30 years??? Yes we all know the Sith did after episode 3 to 6

Who ran the Galaxy for 1000 years before? Yoda and the Jedi.. before Phantom Menace to Revenge of the Sith.

Try thinking, the Sith didnt Rule for jack..

Yoda didn't necessarily hide from Sidious because he was less powerful, simply because Sidious had the whole empire at his side. Yoda wouldn't stand a chance, would he? Yoda sent Luke after Sidious because he knew Sidious would let him past all those stormtroopers and imperial officers, leading him right into the emperor's throne room. Why? Because he knew Luke was both talented and relatively inexperienced. Judging by the fact that he so easily seduced Anakin to the dark side, he thought he could easily do it to Luke as well. But he was clearly wrong. His overconfidence got the better of him, and that eventually led to his downfall. So to Sidious, Luke is a potential ally. With Luke at his side, think about how screwed the Rebels would be. But what does Yoda mean to Sidious? An old enemy whom he wanted to kill from the start. There's no way he would try to turn Yoda to the darkside cause it clearly will never work. So if Yoda were to show himself after ROTS, Sidious' first motives would doubtlessly be to have him killed, therefore he's not gonna let him past all those troopers. There wouldn't be a chance left for Yoda to face off Sidious one on one anymore.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
ok lets get this out of the way.
Did mace win or was palpy faking that he was losing

Heres the thing, George isnt the kind of writer to insinuate. If there is somthing he wants you to know, he spoon feeds it to you.

Personally i believe if palpitine was trying to persuade anakin to the dark side. I believe the best action he could have done would be to conquer the most famous jedi for light saber skills. Seriously, if you were trying to convince someone of the powers of the dark side....why would you intentionally lose. However, i guess mace windu wasnt really that good of a jedi though, if he couldnt sense the turmoil in anakin.

Mace was a ube fighter, otherwise a nincumpoop