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all right. following on the interesting replies to the WM thread (many thanks for a cool debate), i wondered - which earth HAS the more powerful earth-based heroes? no 'cosmics' in the equations, but we can take into account earth-based 'powers'. (ie - gaea) only one group of heroes can survive to rule the earth - the last character standing wins it for their respective world.

oh, and who do you foresee being the last hero/heroes standing after the chaff has all fallen?

marvel earth

DC has the JLA, JSA, Titans, Outsiders, Young Justice League, New Legion Of Doom, Almost all of Bat's villains, ummmm... A few independents like Anarky, GL's Guy Gardner, Kyle Rayner, etc... Well I'm pretty sure Kyle isn't in the Justice League anymore, John Stewart took his place. Ask Draco. Can't forget about Hal Jordan.

VS.

New Avengers, Inhumans, Eternals, X-men, Excalibur, Fantastic Four, Thunderbolts, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Franklin Richards, Magneto, other Avenger members who are earth based EX: Quasar, She-Hulk, Falcon, Wonder Man, Vance Astrovik(Justice), Warbird, etc... Basically they reappear in the House of M series. Guys like Namor, Doc Samson, the Hulk, Genis Vell, Molecule Man Etc...

Ummm if the Presence doesn't interfere, and forbids Spectre to act, Marvel has a chance.

Actually Marvel Wins

Keep the faith

I like the 'no cosmics' rule. Prevents the one-word argument 'pheonix' from taking over this discussion.

Anyway, probably Marvel, but that's what most are going to say because there's an inherent Marvel bias on this forum...we read more Marvel, know more about them, usually like them better, etc. (I'm not exempt from this rule, but I've been warming up to some DC lately). There's exceptions, of course, but not a ton.

I think the Richards family would be the last people standing. Reed's brains, Sue's protection, Franklin's raw power...they'd stick together and outlast everyone.

-DM

This was done quite a while back, and I said then that Marvel wins beacuse of the huge numbers of mutants. They may not all be heroes, but if fighting for their own survival they would be a force to be reckoned with.

Didn't Deadpool say "is everyone a mutant nowadays?".

Dirty muties.

you wouldnt have to be so concerned... phoenix is dead on earth, off in another plane of existence

But still, a couple of words like "Franklin Richards" might have gotten ugly if he wasn't depowered right now.

don't forget dc has wonder woman's amazon race. they are also very tough.

Originally posted by leonidas
don't forget dc has wonder woman's amazon race. they are also very tough.

aren't they only tough if they stick to their island?.... a few bombs should take care of dem beeatchs

Marvel has Frankiln Richrads. ME wins.

Franklin Richards is powerless right now.

hmm...i wouldnt call him powerless...he was supposed to be ever since that run with annihilus. He was also suppossed to be powerless when he resolved the Abraxis conflict...give it a couple months and im sure his powers will be acting up again.

I agree about the Richards fam...not only do u have to worry about Reed and Doom (they r possibly related), but u cant forget uber intelligent Nathaniel Richards either...or Kangs and his relatives that occasionally pop up.

Also dont forget about the Savage Land inhabitants...Mount Wundagor inhabitants...dont forget the Eternals...Atlanteans and Lemurians...

Then all the villains that would be helping like Doom Apocalypse, Magneto, Temugin, Diablo,Sentinels and Nimrod...

Marvel would mob on DC as far as i can tell

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
you wouldnt have to be so concerned... phoenix is dead on earth, off in another plane of existence

But still, a couple of words like "Franklin Richards" might have gotten ugly if he wasn't depowered right now.

Franklin Richards might be depowered, but Wanda isnt......

Marvel since you got Charles inthe picture.

Gaea and Molecule Man end of story.

DC lover try the fantastic four and Savage Hulk

wow! no one thinks dc can take this?? who is gonna handle the endless? like gaea, the endless are associated with earth, so they count. zatanna is another big problem for marvel. who on dc earth can take out molecule man? and has anyone figured out if his body IS human and if he can be killed?

U didn't say they, couldn't take it, only that DC is full of aliens.

" They should call it the Just us league" Hawkgirl

molecule man should not be included...at his present power he is pretty damn ridiculous...has anyone read the comic where he resurfaced and turned kosmos into the beyonder then kicked his ass?

Originally posted by leonidas
wow! no one thinks dc can take this?? who is gonna handle the endless? like gaea, the endless are associated with earth, so they count. zatanna is another big problem for marvel. who on dc earth can take out molecule man? and has anyone figured out if his body IS human and if he can be killed?
Zatanna? What is her power compare to MM

MM will destroy them with ease.

Zatanna vs a Cube( a powerful one)? please

Originally posted by Wynndar
molecule man should not be included...at his present power he is pretty damn ridiculous...has anyone read the comic where he resurfaced and turned kosmos into the beyonder then kicked his ass?
Cute

Molecule Man... Wanda Maximoff... these 2 by themselves are enough to turn the battle.

Yeah, but theres the fantastic four who have great strategy.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Yeah, but theres the fantastic four who have great strategy.

who are on the same team as the above 2

Black Panther also has cube doesn't he?

I was responding to an earlier post, sory.

Common people where are the DC supports or should I switch sides lol

What happened to DC is too powerful bullshit.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
U didn't say they, couldn't take it, only that DC is full of aliens.

" They should call it the Just us league" Hawkgirl

This Happened.

Originally posted by kgkg
Common people where are the DC supports or should I switch sides lol

What happened to DC is too powerful bullshit.

DC put all their powerful people on a team.

thats all.

Marvel keeps them as villains or as soloists. Thats why someone like Molecule Man can hang around Marvel earth, but imagine him on a team of similar beings and you would have the JLA on steroids.

Good Point.

Beautiful signature picture.

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
DC put all their powerful people on a team.

thats all.

Marvel keeps them as villains or as soloists. Thats why someone like Molecule Man can hang around Marvel earth, but imagine him on a team of similar beings and you would have the JLA on steroids.
true that

Hey Cordera...I agree about the FF. FF is still my favorite book. Considering the opponents they regularly face, one planet of heroes shouldnt be too much of a problem for them. When u have Nathaniel, Reed, and Doom working together, they could probably beat anyone. About molecule man, have u read the issue that i was talking about, where MM dominates the beyonder and kubik?

Originally posted by Wynndar
Hey Cordera...I agree about the FF. FF is still my favorite book. Considering the opponents they regularly face, one planet of heroes shouldnt be too much of a problem for them. When u have Nathaniel, Reed, and Doom working together, they could probably beat anyone. About molecule man, have u read the issue that i was talking about, where MM dominates the beyonder and kubik?
He doesn't dominate Kubik , he owned Beyonder though

Kubik says his powers is equal to MM's , but his potential dwarfs his own.

MM's power is still not at Celestial level, but he will end the invasion by himself.

I thought Kubik admitted that MM would trash him too at that point...thats why all he could do was sit there and beg MM to stop...I will try to re-read it soon. But judging from how their fight affect all those other beings in the universe like watchers and gods, i think MM is definitely more powerful than a single Celestial...I think he is approaching the Beyonder's original power.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
U didn't say they, couldn't take it, only that DC is full of aliens.

" They should call it the Just us league" Hawkgirl

No one cares what Hawkgirl says. They only put her on that show so there would be more female members.

Originally posted by nigel45
No one cares what Hawkgirl says. They only put her on that show so there would be more female members.

harsh

Well, it's the truth.

Dc might has more muscle than marvel, but marvel has more raw power like the eternal's, inhuman's, xmen(all of them), Asgard, Molecule Man, Namor and Atlantis, more telepathy's, Gaea, scarlet witch, Rachael Summers Phoenix II, Xman, Cable, Exodus, Binary marvel just have to much raw power for DC, it will be a long battle but marvel will come out on top.

I suppose the DC Earth can do the same thing they did in the WWIII event. Grant everybody the powers of Superman.

6.2 billion Superpeople against Marvel Earth....

Originally posted by Draco69
I suppose the DC Earth can do the same thing they did in the WWIII event. Grant everybody the powers of Superman.

6.2 billion Superpeople against Marvel Earth....
MM will just kill them all.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Dc might has more muscle than marvel, but marvel has more raw power like the eternal's, inhuman's, xmen(all of them), Asgard, Molecule Man, Namor and Atlantis, more telepathy's, Gaea, scarlet witch, Rachael Summers Phoenix II, Xman, Cable, Exodus, Binary marvel just have to much raw power for DC, it will be a long battle but marvel will come out on top.

Eternals aren't on Earth.
Inhumans aren't either.
Asgard is destroyed and never was on Earth to begin with.
Aquaman also has Atlantis.
X-Man is dead.
Exodus got owned by Havok.
Binary is nomore. She's Warbird now.

ugh...dont be a DC fanboy and try to paint some ridiculous scenerio where DC could possibly win by having a bunch of one-dimensional supermen. It wouldnt matter even if they did. Nathaniel Richards and Doom would probably like it, so they could steal all that power for themselves...the greedy bastards

cubes are still above skyfather level, more than enough power for this fight.

Originally posted by Draco69
Eternals aren't on Earth.
Inhumans aren't either.
Asgard is destroyed and never was on Earth to begin with.
Aquaman also has Atlantis.
X-Man is dead.
Exodus got owned by Havok.
Binary is nomore. She's Warbird now.



eternals are on earth the are two of them hello. Titans/ eternals on the moon of saturn, Earth base eternal ikris,sersi, makkrai and the others. Inhumans are on earth.

Inhumans might be on the moon at this moment. And yea...i think there r still eternals at mt. olympus...too bad Gilgamesh is dead...he was a bad ass

MM against the endless . . . i'm not convinced MM takes that one at all. don't make an argument though, unless you know the endless. and if the endless can beat MM, marvel earth might not be that far behind . . . (since i'm allowing gaea, i'm allowing the endless, by the way. and isn't doomsday also currently back on dc earth?)

Scarlet Witch is their. Captain Britain is back. Along with his sword of the cosmos. Molecule Man is a big plus. Dr. Strange and his Servant/Wife Clea. Dr. Doom is their as well, and can certainly come up with something along Reed and Strange. Reed makes Batman look like he's still in high school when it comes to brains. I think Doom is even smarter than Reed. Not to mention the sheer number of mutants on marvel earth. If pressured and fighting for their survival, they would probably take up arms alongside the X-men or other superhero groups. Black Panther and his cosmic cube. The Sentry's their, that certainly means the Void is there as well. You remember what he did to earth's heroes. The Void will certainly take a bunch of DC heroes out of fight real quick. Too many factors for Marvel. Marvel Wins. Man I thought DC was overpowered. I guess Marvel took the lead in overpowered beings.

You're allowing Gaea from Marvel? Then allow the Earth-Based Gods on DC then.

Gaea only has to call atum the sun god/ demo-gorge then Dc earth will be really f**ked up. Last time he fought Set it lasted months destroying all life during the battle. I forgot about Roma Merlin's daughter, Temugin and his rings. As long you have magneto, count nefaria, Dr. doom you are going to do some serious damage, Dr.strange will send of half Dc heroes into Mephsito and Dormammu realms for the hell of it and I do mean hell.

Gaea or not..it doesnt seem like it matters.

Here's a link to Marvel's gods. Most of them are earth based. A few like the Asgardians aren't. But that put's it way into perspective.


http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/appgods.htm

All of the gods on both worlds will cancel each other out, expect for gaea since she is a elder god and she can call upon her son Atum who is a 2 genaration elde god and he is above all the Skyfathers in marvel and dc.

geez, there really aren't many dc fans out there . . .

okay, in answer to my own question - who can take out molecule man? phantom strnger. he's currently involved with the group the sentinels of magic. said group includes the following - dr fate, zatanna, demon, ragman, deadman and a few others. constantine also has ties to the group. even strange couldn't beat them.

other noteables i think few are paying attention to - shaggy man, grayven (wants to rule apokalips, last known whereabouts earth), swamp thing will be an enormous challenge for anyone, the ancients, and, by the way, dc has a gaea too. so no atum. i also hear everyone talk about doom and reed, but luthor is no slouch.

anyway, gaea and stranger cancel gaea and molecule man. now it's mostly down just to the earth heroes and villains. it's still very close in my book.

I dont think stranger cancels out Molecule Man. Did you read about just how powerful he is?

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
I dont think stranger cancels out Molecule Man. Did you read about just how powerful he is?
His power was so great that it caused a problem and fear throughout the multiverse.

Caught the attention of LT , Eternity , Chaos , and Order.

re: the phantom stranger

<<When the Stranger is acting in his bailiwick (the area specific to his responsibility - ie - safeguarding the earth), he is almost supremely powerful. If he is not taken by surprise and can plan and act, he can be baffled only by universal forces such as the Spectre, the Anti-Monitor, the Lords of Order, and presumably the Endless.>>

in other words, PS is a tough sob. plus his abilities are magically based. and we all know how cosmics feel about magic . . . note too, the subtle allusion to the endless in this post . . .

between the powerful magic wielders (marvel has strange, but no one else is really close to him for magic, while dc has a host of very powerful magicians) and the endless, grayven (darkseid's reputed son) + the regular cast of characters, i really like dc's chances in this . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
re: the phantom stranger

<<When the Stranger is acting in his bailiwick (the area specific to his responsibility - ie - safeguarding the earth), he is almost supremely powerful. If he is not taken by surprise and can plan and act, he can be baffled only by universal forces such as the Spectre, the Anti-Monitor, the Lords of Order, and presumably the Endless.>>

in other words, PS is a tough sob. plus his abilities are magically based. and we all know how cosmics feel about magic . . . note too, the subtle allusion to the endless in this post . . .

between the powerful magic wielders (marvel has strange, but no one else is really close to him for magic, while dc has a host of very powerful magicians) and the endless, grayven (darkseid's reputed son) + the regular cast of characters, i really like dc's chances in this . . .
Over MM?

Do you know what MM can do?

He was seen has a threat to the multiverse.

Stranger , and Endless will be crying after he is done with them.

i dont see how u can compare MArvel cosmics to DC cosmics...I know DC aknowledges other dimensions but they dont seem to have a sense of Multiverse like in Marvel. Some cosmics r so high that they transend the multiverse, so how can they be compared to cosmics that only exist in one universe?

Originally posted by Wynndar
i dont see how u can compare MArvel cosmics to DC cosmics...I know DC aknowledges other dimensions but they dont seem to have a sense of Multiverse like in Marvel. Some cosmics r so high that they transend the multiverse, so how can they be compared to cosmics that only exist in one universe?
who are you talking to?

im not talking to anyone in particular...im jus saying it makes it really hard to compare beings from the different universes

i think he's talking to me . . .

the set ups are very different, obviously. but we can take certain things for granted for the sake of argument - the most powerful in each is likely about them same. then you basically compare others in each universe to the respective 'highest' powers. is it perfect? no. but for the sake of discussion, it works.

as far as MM - you said yourself kg he is not a celestial level - not even galactus, obviously because g has shown to be greater than at least some of the celestials. most put cube beings between g and skyfathers. even if he has POTENTIAL to be way above that, he's not there yet. it's very likely he falls in roughly the same place hierarchically speaking, in marvel as PS does in dc. and the endless are likely far ABOVE MM in terms of where they fall in their respective universe's hierarchy. the endless CANNOT die. and DEATH is one of the endless. cube being or not, MM is not gonna beat the endless. i'm willing to say they cancel each other out and go with what's left. no endless, no gaea, no atum, no MM. but i gotta believe DEATH or DESTRUCTION takes MM down alone, without even NEEDING the other endless.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think he's talking to me . . .

the set ups are very different, obviously. but we can take certain things for granted for the sake of argument - the most powerful in each is likely about them same. then you basically compare others in each universe to the respective 'highest' powers. is it perfect? no. but for the sake of discussion, it works.

as far as MM - you said yourself kg he is not a celestial level - not even galactus, obviously because g has shown to be greater than at least some of the celestials. most put cube beings between g and skyfathers. even if he has POTENTIAL to be way above that, he's not there yet. it's very likely he falls in roughly the same place hierarchically speaking, in marvel as PS does in dc. and the endless are likely far ABOVE MM in terms of where they fall in their respective universe's hierarchy. the endless CANNOT die. and DEATH is one of the endless. cube being or not, MM is not gonna beat the endless. i'm willing to say they cancel each other out and go with what's left. no endless, no gaea, no atum, no MM. but i gotta believe DEATH or DESTRUCTION takes MM down alone, without even NEEDING the other endless.
how are endless higher than MM?

greatest feat?

immortal? so are gods (such as skyfathers)

okay. the endless are difficult at best to describe. with endless it's more a . . . feeling for what they are. you really need to read them to understand what i'm getting at. here's a link that MIGHT help you a little. but you just gotta read them to understand. once you do, you'll sort of see that it's ridiculous in way to imagine MM 'beating' them.

http://www.oddball.net/endless/endless.html

there's also this one:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9923/sandman.html

as far as feats - there was that time in hell where morpheus (dream) embarrassed lucifer mornigstar. lucifier swore he would somehow destroy dream. he never did by the way. so if you can tell anything about a character by the enemies he has, you can see where i'm going wit the endless . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
okay. the endless are difficult at best to describe. with endless it's more a . . . feeling for what they are. you really need to read them to understand what i'm getting at. here's a link that MIGHT help you a little. but you just gotta read them to understand. once you do, you'll sort of see that it's ridiculous in way to imagine MM 'beating' them.

http://www.oddball.net/endless/endless.html

there's also this one:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9923/sandman.html

as far as feats - there was that time in hell where morpheus (dream) embarrassed lucifer mornigstar. lucifier swore he would somehow destroy dream. he never did by the way. so if you can tell anything about a character by the enemies he has, you can see where i'm going wit the endless . . .
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/The_Sandman_(DC_Comics_Modern_Age)

You are sure these are earth inhabitants?

The Endless kinda sound like Eternity, Oblivion, Infinity, etc...

Originally posted by Sentry
The Endless kinda sound like Eternity, Oblivion, Infinity, etc...
And it look like they only exist in there own comic(The Sandman).

yes, they attend the earth and its people. never really been shown how far into the universe their influence reaches - least not that i've ever seen. and they have appeared in dc continuity. superman has met morpheus, and destiny has appeared several times in continuity. constantine is also involved often with the endless. i'm also pretty sure (perhaps someone could provide a definite answer) that sandman is where lucifer morningstar first appeared.

face it dude, the endless ROCK!!!

Originally posted by leonidas
yes, they attend the earth and its people. never really been shown how far into the universe their influence reaches - least not that i've ever seen. and they have appeared in dc continuity. superman has met morpheus, and destiny has appeared several times in continuity. constantine is also involved often with the endless. i'm also pretty sure (perhaps someone could provide a definite answer) that sandman is where lucifer morningstar first appeared.

face it dude, the endless ROCK!!!
They attend?

and yes Lucifer was first seen in Sandman

Come on guys anyone who can piss of Lucifer Morningstar has got to have power.

Originally posted by Mider
Come on guys anyone who can piss of Lucifer Morningstar has got to have power.
They don't seem earth base to me.

they have there own realms

You guys also forget DC earth has Gog, Ion, Lucifer Morningstar, Spectre, come on guys Marvel goes down and it goes down hard.

you still have Gog, Superman Dynesty, you still have JLA, Teen Titans, i mean come on Raven alone could probably take out half of Marvel earth She is the Daughter of a demon lord who makes Mephesto look like a ***** IMO.

Originally posted by Mider
you still have Gog, Superman Dynesty, you still have JLA, Teen Titans, i mean come on Raven alone could probably take out half of Marvel earth She is the Daughter of a demon lord who makes Mephesto look like a ***** IMO.
none of them can match MM.

Dr Fate, Swampthing, Constantine, Tim Hunter, Saint Of Killers i think He is earth based, Superman Prime, i mean if these other guys had helped during times like when Doomsday attacked or Impirex i think it would have gone alot smoother for DC earth.

What do you mean they cant match Marvel Earth those arent even 2 percent of all the top level beings that are on earth you also have , Zues DC Version, Aries DC version He was one touch cookie they have all the pantheons in fact they have mystics that make easily have the power to reshape reality Morgan La Fay, Etrigan, and more

What the hell? Bringing in Lucifer is like bringing in the Presence. Earth based? He has his own realm doesn't he? Why is he fighting for DC earth? Raven? Strange will take care of her along with many other magicians and sorcerers he will defeat.

Well not Dr. Strange alone, but he's there with other magicians/sorcerer's. Aged Genghis, Manuel Diego, Dr. Doom, Clea, Khalid Inshallah, Jules St. Thomas, "Screamer," Sen-Yu, Tareva, and Wai Chee Yee. Their are more, but he's not alone. Oh, can't forget Mordred the Mystic either. Darkhold Redeemers. Clandestine, alon with Adam Destine and his family of immortal kin batlling for their survival. Crom will journey to from his Hyborian past to help his mother. This guy banished Shuma Gorath from Earth for a long time.

The Witches, Satana Hellstorm, Topaz, and Jennifer Kale. Ohh can't forget Dark Angel. This Dark Angel:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/darkangelhaldane.htm

She was born in the UK.

If Lucifer comes into the fight, Doom gets the THOTU.

Oh, The Enigma/Uni-Power Of Captain Universe chooses an a heir in tough times, like it did Spiderman, supposedly it chose a being like Doom? Hulk? Or The Sentry?

Originally posted by Mider
you still have Gog, Superman Dynesty, you still have JLA, Teen Titans, i mean come on Raven alone could probably take out half of Marvel earth She is the Daughter of a demon lord who makes Mephesto look like a ***** IMO.

sleeping ....huh?...

this is turning into universe v universe. it's supposed to be earth v earth. and i said i'm making allowances for the endless because earth is their sphere, like it's gaea's. yes they do have their own realms, but they regularly traffic on earth - especially death and morpheus, both of whom are almost ALWAYS on earth, somewhere . . .

http://www.oddball.net/endless/death.html

(damn that's a WICKED powerful scene . . .)

besides, MM is technically a 'cosmic'. and there are not supposed to be 'cosmics' involved in this little game. just because he HAPPENS to be on earth doesn't change the fact that he's cosmic. it's still technically cheating. and no, obviously lucifer doesn't count. so, endless cancel MM, now it's down to just the regulars. i think marvel has a greater volume of characters from what i can tell, and that might be the difference, but dc still has some mighty heavy hitters. still can't believe there's no dc support in sight.

Keep the debate sexy please.

<<Keep the debate sexy please.>>

ummm, i'm a little afraid to respond to this . . .

no problemdance

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Keep the debate sexy please.>>

ummm, i'm a little afraid to respond to this . . .

The banana says it all.

oh come on, Endless count because they "regularly traffic on earth"? So does the Phoenix, I guess she counts.

Whereas someone like Gaea is actually the Goddess of Earth. It doesn't get more "earth-based" than that. Why not use similar DC earth gods?

The Phoenix would be a top contender not that Jean already isn't.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
The Phoenix would be a top contender not that Jean already isn't.

Jean is the Phoenix... currently....

unfortunately shes not on Earth right now.

you might be thinking of the Phoenix Force itself.

I was.

<<oh come on, Endless count because they "regularly traffic on earth"? So does the Phoenix, I guess she counts.>.

i count them because it's my thread and because everyone insists on counting Molecule man who is a cosmic and should not technically be included in this discussion. i said take out molecule man and i'll take out endless. this was ostensibly meant to be marvel earth heroes v dc earth heroes. molecule man is no more a 'hero' than the endless. but if everyone insists on using MM to support marvel, i'll use the endless for dc. if just to make things fair.

Let's take out MM, and take out the Endless. DC and Marvel earth based gods are all right though. Marvel still takes it.

you're probably right, sentry. i just think it would be closer than some others do.

Well Marvel has an inbuilt advantage with 16 million or so mutants running around, and if Genosha was still around....

Originally posted by leonidas
you're probably right, sentry. i just think it would be closer than some others do.

I agree with you. It's not going to be a cake walk. Marvel takes it, by a millimeter.

By a centimeter I'd say.