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Then how could he lose to Obi-Wan?

1. He made one dumbass mistake.
2. Obi and Anakin had trained with each other for years, they knew eachothers moves.

His judgement was clouded.

Ast pretty much said it. Obi-Wan knew Anakin's fighting style too well.

Through the entire fight, though he didnt dominate, Anakin was mostly in control.

Obi-Wan had the Highground... End of stroy.

Anakin had the power, but Obi-Wan was more experienced

Obi-wan was fighting to win for good Anikan did his blindly for dark evil

But he underestmated Ob-wan he thought he knew him but when Obi-wan had victory he looked down at pitty to his close friend his brother he was reduced to the one thing he was to destory he left him there unable to live with himsefl if he killed him. Taht part of the movie was sad

They actually had the same experience but Obi-wan had killed two Siths Anikan only one in the end but Obi-wan is stronger by a few he is after all a master.

aside from obi wan knowing everything he was about to do. Obiwan was a true jedi, anakin was nothing. He was in transistion of going from jedi to sith. Maybe if he fought as a jedi (emotionless) he could have won, but thats why anakin is always second best isnt it/

I don't know how Anakin beat Dooku. Dooku makes Obi-Wan look like nothing the first time they fought and the second time Dooku takes out Obi even faster. Then Obi beats Anakin. Just don't add up to me.

Would have been much cooler if the suited Darth Vader had to kill Dooku to finally become the Emperor's apprentice. That would have been an awesome fight with two dark lords fighting each other.

I'm getting sick of hearing how Obi wan beat Anakin "because he knew his fighting style" and all that crap. The fact is, they knew eachother equally, so neither has an advantage because of that.

So why did Obi wan beat Anakin? BECAUSE HE IS STRONGER THEN ANAKIN IN COMBAT, PERIOD. More experienced, calmer, patient, clear headed, all that. He's just flat out better then Anakin.

Don't get confused into thinking that just because Anakin is the Chosen one, that he must be the strongest ever. That is not true. The chosen one profecy ONLY refers to the one that will bring balance to the force. It DOES NOT say anywhere that it also means that he has to be the strongest.

The only time Anakin ever showed any power at all in any of the movies was vs Dooku the second time. Then he gets schooled and loses his legs 2 hours later. Anakin isn't as strong as people think he is. He COULD have been strong, but he never lived up to his potential because he turned to the dark side. He could have been a very powerful Jedi if he trained longer, and learned CONTROL. But he didn't, so he never got very good. He's alright, but Obi wan proved that he's still, and always will be a little whinny *****.

Obi wan however is an ass kicker.

you know maybe this is stupid but i thought about it.what if anakin got beat by obi-wan because in some small way he could not bring himself to kill the man who was like a father to him.maybe in a way that held him back and that is why obi-wan was able to win?

anakin was arrogant, as he's always been. i'm sure obi-wan's wanted to slap the shit outta him many times during his training cuz he'd always been such a whiney little puke. you know, to put him in his place. so, he chopped his limbs off. and that's that.
and cuz obi-wan just rules.

Anakin's an idiot. End of story.

Originally posted by Vanquish
I'm getting sick of hearing how Obi wan beat Anakin "because he knew his fighting style" and all that crap. The fact is, they knew eachother equally, so neither has an advantage because of that.

So why did Obi wan beat Anakin? BECAUSE HE IS STRONGER THEN ANAKIN IN COMBAT, PERIOD. More experienced, calmer, patient, clear headed, all that. He's just flat out better then Anakin.

Don't get confused into thinking that just because Anakin is the Chosen one, that he must be the strongest ever. That is not true. The chosen one profecy ONLY refers to the one that will bring balance to the force. It DOES NOT say anywhere that it also means that he has to be the strongest.

The only time Anakin ever showed any power at all in any of the movies was vs Dooku the second time. Then he gets schooled and loses his legs 2 hours later. Anakin isn't as strong as people think he is. He COULD have been strong, but he never lived up to his potential because he turned to the dark side. He could have been a very powerful Jedi if he trained longer, and learned CONTROL. But he didn't, so he never got very good. He's alright, but Obi wan proved that he's still, and always will be a little whinny *****.

Obi wan however is an ass kicker.

wrong, Obi-Wan is not stronger in combat then Anakin. Anakin IS far more powerful then obi is. Anakin is in the league of Yoda and Windu, Obi is one level down from them in terms of power in the force and saber abilities.

Anakin was just arrogant, a fault of the darkside (refer to Maul) he was arrogant and stupid and made a mistake, through the fight Anakin was almost always on attack during that fight, he was in control. Obi was not. Anakin just made a stupid arrogant mistake. otherwise he would have beaten Obi.

Originally posted by Vanquish
I'm getting sick of hearing how Obi wan beat Anakin "because he knew his fighting style" and all that crap. The fact is, they knew eachother equally, so neither has an advantage because of that.


I didnt say that is why he won, that is why he survived until the time when he out smarted Anakin.

the fact is that Anakin, on paper in every single way should have beaten Obi-wan. He was a far greater Jedi then Obi-wan was. (in terms of abilities) as i said, in the league of Yoda and Windu, Obi-Wan was not at that same level.

i agree that it was a mistake.. he overestimated what he could do because of the dark side.. and it was a cheap shot.. obi knew eventually anakin would defeat him and thats why the cheap shot was taken...

CHeap shot?!

Anakin had it coming!

"Underestimate my power" my ass!

Originally posted by Vanquish

So why did Obi wan beat Anakin? BECAUSE HE IS STRONGER THEN ANAKIN IN COMBAT, PERIOD. More experienced, calmer, patient, clear headed, all that. He's just flat out better then Anakin.


Not to completely dispute you, but you should check out the interviews in the strategy guide for the Episode III game. In the back, the stunt choreographer, Nick Gillard is asked about the growth of both Anakin and Ben's lightsaber skills since AOTC.

Gillard said that Ben went from like, skill level 3 to 4, only one level, while Anakin went up from 2 to 5 or 6. Quite a big jump. Anakin fought with power and tenacity, Ben used the calmer approach but was faster.

Ben was the wiser swordsman and he was also a Master. Compared to Anakins strength though, Ben knew he was not going to win in a straight saber fight.

Also, I didn't read the book adaptation to III, but I heard that Dooku was coerced by Palpie to, well, kind of throw the fight...? I could be wrong.

That makes a lot of sense then.

From The Making of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith:

Nick Gillard: On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels. Sidious is a level nine . On this film Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine... Once you get to eight you have a Pandora's box. You could go any way with it. The way not to go is the dark side. But it would tempt you, because that would jump you right past the others. So you need to arrive at level eight at the right age - not as young as Anakin. That young, the dark side is just too tempting.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
wrong, Obi-Wan is not stronger in combat then Anakin. Anakin IS far more powerful then obi is. Anakin is in the league of Yoda and Windu, Obi is one level down from them in terms of power in the force and saber abilities.

Anakin was just arrogant, a fault of the darkside (refer to Maul) he was arrogant and stupid and made a mistake, through the fight Anakin was almost always on attack during that fight, he was in control. Obi was not. Anakin just made a stupid arrogant mistake. otherwise he would have beaten Obi.

You are horribly incorrect. Obi Wan was always stronger than Anakin. I bet you he could have kick his ass in the Death Star too. Too bad he let Vader kill him to become stronger than ever.

^ Did you not read what I posted directly above you?

On this film Obi is eight... Anakin is a nine

Who is this Nick Gillard though?

Are you asking that seriously? Or just trying to make a point?

Well, he's the guy who choreographs the fights so I'd say he'd be in the know, and if he thinks Obi is an eight and Anakin is a nine he's gonna choreograph the fights to reflect that...

If you're trying to make a point, I understand what you're saying...

But even in terms of just what's in the film there is nothing to suggest Obi-Wan is stronger than Anakin. Or vice versa. In fact I believe the whole force-push eachother hand thing was to show that they are both equal in power...

Sorry if you thought I making a point, Dil. I wasn't. I was genuinely asking who he was. (Thank you by the way for telling me who he was.) Although that is one expert's opinion on saber skills, I wonder what his take on smarts & strategy would be regarding Obi-Wan vs. Anakin.

hmm, yeah.

I'd say Obi-Wan is smarter than Anakin, if only because he is older, wiser and has much more experience...

Well OB1 kicked Ani's ass. He is the better Jedi. End of!!

Also considering, he didn't just kill a bunch of separatists and choke his wife in the last couple of minutes.

But I agree completely with Obi-Wan being smarter and planning things in advance. Anakin was being reckless and not thinking clearly.

Plus remember this...IT WAS WRITTEN THAT WAY IN THE SCRIPT!!!!

Yes. Thank you for reminding me.

Huh? It was written in the script that Anakin made a cock-up in his arrogance...

There is nothing throughout the entire duel to suggest that Obi-Wan kicks Anakin's ass...

Yeah, they are quite equal.

Although, in terms of using their head, Obi-Wan had the advantage.

Otherwise, he would've been beaten, not Ani.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
Huh? It was written in the script that Anakin made a cock-up in his arrogance...

There is nothing throughout the entire duel to suggest that Obi-Wan kicks Anakin's ass...

Hmm...Not even the fact that he cut off both his legs???? Everyone keeps banging on about how Anakin is the best Jedi but if he was the best surely he would not make the silly mistakes and have lapses in concentration.

Anakin's judgment was clouded.

I definitely don't think Anakin was the best Jedi. I believe the entire duel was equal up to the point that Obi-Wan got the 'high ground'.

Hence not the complete Jedi.

But why did Ani try such a reckless move?

Arrogance, I guess. He thought he could make it. He got cocky. Like I said... his judgement was clouded, he wasn't thinking straight.

It seemed that he knew exactly what he was doing. He may have had mixed emotions but at the end of the day he wanted to kill Obi-Wan and all of the Jedi.

I think he definitely knew what his intentions where... that is, to kill Obi-Wan. And if he could kill him he would have, but he never got the chance. Obi-Wan fought well.

It's the whole 'high ground' thing, which I think is kinda cheap. Obi-Wan had the high ground, which gave him the advantage over Anakin. For Anakin to get the advantage he needed to jump to higher ground. I guess the logic being that whoever was on the high ground would push the other into the lava either by force or duelling...

Doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning's.

Agreed.

He should have used the force.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
There is nothing throughout the entire duel to suggest that Obi-Wan kicks Anakin's ass...
Oh really? What about the Conference Table scene at the beginning of Chapter 40, Battle of the Heroes, when Obi-Wan literally kicked Anakin in the butt.

I think that chopping off someone's legs and arms is a pretty severe example of ownage. Obi-Wan showed that he was better than Anakin, at least on that particular day. He deserves credit for that.

Originally posted by Neo_Version 7
Doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning's.

Yup. Any real racer...um Jedi, would know that.

Originally posted by king_arthur
Then how could he lose to Obi-Wan?

Because it was in the script

Clever

Originally posted by @stroFan
1. He made one dumbass mistake.
2. Obi and Anakin had trained with each other for years, they knew eachothers moves.

I agree.

Originally posted by steverules_2
Because it was in the script

...and Obi-Wan needed to live until Episode 4.

the only reason obiwan has able to beat anakin is because he had the higher ground and was able to cut off his other arm and both his legs in one swing when anakin jumped up at obiwan, and yes because obiwan was the shizznits and could kick anybodys ass in a duel excpet dooku because dooku was qui-gon jin master and jin was obiwans master. dooku saw obiwan grow up and became a strong jedi and was able to learn his moves easy but dooku wasnt able to learn anakins and anakin beat the crap out of dooku the second time they met.

luls why we bump 5 year old thread? it stinks of rot in here.

Originally posted by Sith Stalker
the only reason obiwan has able to beat anakin is because he had the higher ground and was able to cut off his other arm and both his legs in one swing when anakin jumped up at obiwan, and yes because obiwan was the shizznits and could kick anybodys ass in a duel excpet dooku because dooku was qui-gon jin master and jin was obiwans master. dooku saw obiwan grow up and became a strong jedi and was able to learn his moves easy but dooku wasnt able to learn anakins and anakin beat the crap out of dooku the second time they met.

Nah.

Both times in the Star Wars movies someone says: "You underestimate my power," some one gets hurt.

Like in RotS Anakin gets his arm and legs chopped off, and in RotJ Luke falls into the rancor pit.

Anyway, I think that Obi-Wan won because he was thinking clearly, and Anakin was not, what with the whole Padme thing.

Originally posted by king_arthur
I don't know how Anakin beat Dooku. Dooku makes Obi-Wan look like nothing the first time they fought and the second time Dooku takes out Obi even faster. Then Obi beats Anakin. Just don't add up to me.

Would have been much cooler if the suited Darth Vader had to kill Dooku to finally become the Emperor's apprentice. That would have been an awesome fight with two dark lords fighting each other.

That goes against the Sith's longtime code, that there can only be two at a time.
Dooku was intended all along to become a sacrifice, to push Anakin further to the Dark Side. Dooku was duped by Sidious into thinking they could recriut Anakin; he only realized his error seconds before death.

Check out the ROTS novel, it gives incredible insight to both fights. With Dooku, Anakin was incredibly focused and nearly unstoppable. It said that all of Dooku's training and force mastery was turned into a joke against Anakin and all Anakin had to do was decide. Dooku was already dead, the rest was just details.

With OB1, Anakin was even more powerful, but that was the first time he had to sit stew over what he'd done. Also, he was fighting his "brother" and they knew each other, "more intimately than lovers," so they knew each others moves just as well as their own.

Ultimately, Anakin made a horrible decision trying to jump over OB1. In any other circumstance, OB1 would have most likely been killed. As with all Sith, overconfidence was his downfall.

Also its the style Obi-wan used a defensive one allowing him to survive the duell till it came to Anakins mistake. If he had used an aggressive one like Qui-gon Jinn he wouldn't have made it till then. Then again Obi-wan had an advantage because Anakin was completely devastated. Padme had the one person who he had done all this for had betrayed him (at least he thought it was like that).

i just think Obi-Wan was simply that good. Dooku believed he was better than Anakin, his arrogance blinding him to the fact that Anakin's power had grown. Plus, the physicality of his lightsaber combat was a problem Dooku seemed to have troule dealing with.

Obi-Wan, on the other hand, didn't suffer from said arrogance. He respected Anakin's power, and found a way around it. Did having the high ground help? Sure. I still think Obi would have beaten him eventually though. More experienced, smarter, and just as good in lightsaber combat imo (i actually think he was slightly better, tbh).

Yes , Star Wars is a complete fantasy and you could just chalk it up and say it's a movie , but combat is really not that simple. Just because he defeated Count Dooku does'nt mean he can easily defeat Obi-wan in an entirley differnet Enviroment. If you remember it was his last move that did him in.

I think one of the only reasons OB1 won that duel with Anakin was because he was a lot more aware of his surroundings then Anakin was, Anakin was focused on killin OB1 for betraying him and the Republic, and OB1 knew that where they were fighting wasn't safe or stable and needed some sort of advantage, so when he saw the hill, he went for it. It doesn't mean OB1 had anymore skill then Anakin, it just meant that OB1 was more aware than Anakin was at the time. If Anakin had jumped up there before OB1, then OB1 would have been dead (most likely).

"Word! Check baby one two , one two . Letma just interrupt ya'll for a second here allite!! Obi-Wan had the greatest video of all time yo! You feelin me baby?



http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7236/photokanyewest.jpg

Originally posted by king_arthur
Then how could he lose to Obi-Wan? Because he wasn't as overconfident for the Dooku fight as Obi. Obi also knew him inside and out and that experience helped him match Anakin.

perhaps the phrase "on any given sunday..." would apply.

could also just be poorly thought out and bad story decisions to move the story along... what moves the story forward at one point doesn't make much sense when something else happens later.

Originally posted by headless robot

could also just be poorly thought out and bad story decisions to move the story along... what moves the story forward at one point doesn't make much sense when something else happens later.

No it could not, seeing as it was a well thought out and good story decision that made perfect sense.

It is never as simple as A beat B who beat C so A will always beat C. It depends on the circumstances.

What is going through the fighter's mind and heart at the time? How well do they know each other? Are there environmental hazards in the area? and so on.

Against Dooku Anakin fought a smug, overconfident foe in a room without any environmental hazards. Anakin was also extremely focused on saving two people he cared about deeply (Kenobi and Palpatine).

Against Kenobi Anakin fought an opponent who knew exactly how formiddable he was and didn't underestimate him in a very hazardous environment. It didn't help that Anakin's mind and heart were in a whirlwind since he believed his wife had betrayed him, so he didn't have the focus he had against Dooku.

See what I mean about circumstances?

Too many wordy explanations.
Anakin made the mistake of giving Obi-Wan the high ground simple as that.

It wasn't really Anakin's mistake....OB1 happened to notice the advantage, so he took advantage of it.

You say pototo I say potato.

It's funny though. Obi-Wan thinks the battle is over because he had the high ground, yet when he was hanging on by a nob down the melting pit, Darth Maul was leaps and bounds "higher" than him, and we know how that one ended. lol

Originally posted by ~JP~
Too many wordy explanations.

Wordy explanations are fun. That is the entire point of forums like this.

Originally posted by ~JP~
Anakin made the mistake of giving Obi-Wan the high ground simple as that.

Not "simple as that" although that was a contributing factor.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
It's funny though. Obi-Wan thinks the battle is over because he had the high ground, yet when he was hanging on by a nob down the melting pit, Darth Maul was leaps and bounds "higher" than him, and we know how that one ended. lol

Circumstances differ though. In that scene Maul was being cocky and not paying an attention to the moment at hand. Obi Wan was able to settle down and relax so he could get the job done. Obi Wan wasn't being cocky when he said he had the high ground he just didn't want Anakin to jump.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Circumstances differ though. In that scene Maul was being cocky and not paying an attention to the moment at hand. Obi Wan was able to settle down and relax so he could get the job done. Obi Wan wasn't being cocky when he said he had the high ground he just didn't want Anakin to jump.

Exactly. Well said.

No, Obi-Wan wasn't being cocky, but I don't think he was exactly being smart either. Just because you jumped off a moving platform onto an elevated slope doesn't automatically make you the winner of a fight, but it appearantly means Anakin couldn't jump over him without getting sliced up. Loved the duel, but this was a crappy way to end it.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
No, Obi-Wan wasn't being cocky, but I don't think he was exactly being smart either. Just because you jumped off a moving platform onto an elevated slope doesn't automatically make you the winner of a fight, but it appearantly means Anakin couldn't jump over him without getting sliced up. Loved the duel, but this was a crappy way to end it.

This is only my opinion, but I don't think Kenobi was saying he'd automatically won the fight by jumping onto the slope. "It's over Anakin. I have the high ground" was just him pointing out that he had a strategic advantage.

Remember this is Obi-Wan Kenobi, the "certain points of view" guy.

As I said, just my opinion.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
This is only my opinion, but I don't think Kenobi was saying he'd automatically won the fight by jumping onto the slope. "It's over Anakin. I have the high ground" was just him pointing out that he had a strategic advantage.

Remember this is Obi-Wan Kenobi, the "certain points of view" guy.

As I said, just my opinion.

Anakin: "from my point of view that Jedi are evil!"
OB1: "Well then you truly are lost!"

He didn't care much for his opinion in that scene!

Originally posted by Sith Master X
No, Obi-Wan wasn't being cocky, but I don't think he was exactly being smart either. Just because you jumped off a moving platform onto an elevated slope doesn't automatically make you the winner of a fight, but it appearantly means Anakin couldn't jump over him without getting sliced up. Loved the duel, but this was a crappy way to end it.
I, personally, do not think that that is how OB1 meant it, either. The fight surely did not have to be over. I just think that OB1 wanted it to be over. He didn't want to fight Anakin to begin with. Seeing as how he had a tactical advantage over his apprentice, I think OB1 thought it a good time to possibly try and reason with Anakin again. Wreckless Anakin, however, was cocky and didn't care much to hear it.

I agree with you Chilled Monkey and General G, you both made great poitns there.

I can see how strategically this would be a bit of an advantage, and Obi-Wan probably was trying to reason with him.

I just think when you look at it, Anakin jumped extremely far off the sinking catwalk on to the droid, he probably could have jumped way over Obi-Wan. But oh well, just a movie.

Off the sinking catwalk...I can't quite recall the exact part, but did Anakin not have a running go at that part? That would add a nice distance to his jump. Haha but yes, just a movie is right! Every little thing is not important

I called it a sinking catwalk lol but I don't really know what it was. It's that piece that breaks off and falls into river of lava, and then they approach that "lava fall" Obi-Wan jumps off it, it tips over the edge making it look like Anakin is going to go down with it, but jumps off just in time.

You are right though, he did have a running advantage.

Originally posted by @stroFan
1. He made one dumbass mistake.
2. Obi and Anakin had trained with each other for years, they knew eachothers moves.

Bingo.

The high ground theory is wright and wrong in a way

in ep 1 the sith had the high ground but obi wan manage to jump
& use the force do a front flip over the sith and cut him in half
i like to think if the fight would of been in a different setting
( flat surface )
Anakin would of won i think he was better with the L S
but his Recklessness was his down fall
anakin kills him in the end many years later
( like 2 old men with a grudge )

so anakin won

Anakin had a disadvendge with Obi wan and we all know that Obi Wan being in the older firms can't die anyway.Or Anakin for that matter.

Originally posted by K J H
The high ground theory is wright and wrong in a way

in ep 1 the sith had the high ground but obi wan manage to jump
& use the force do a front flip over the sith and cut him in half
i like to think if the fight would of been in a different setting
( flat surface )
Anakin would of won i think he was better with the L S
but his Recklessness was his down fall
anakin kills him in the end many years later
( like 2 old men with a grudge )

so anakin won

I already mentioned that the circumstances of that fight were different. Obi wan didn't really want Anakin to attempt the jump because he knew what the outcome would be. "Don't try it"

Maul was just being stupid and not paying any attention.

Also this isn't specifically related to your post, but I've noticed a lot of people here have been saying that Anakin dominated the fight. On what basis do you make a claim like that? Anakin had an aggressive lightsaber style whereas Obi wan had a defensive style. If anything you could argue Obi wan was in control because he was dictating where and how the battle would be fought.

Btw in episode 3 game when u play as anikan against obi wan ani jumps right over obi and stabs him in the chest and kicks his body down the lava bank he then kills sidous and claims the galaxy is his. That woulda screwed up star wars tho

Btw in EP 6 vader remebers his arrogance and lobs his ls why not do that any way!!

Originally posted by InfernoJG95
Btw in episode 3 game when u play as anikan against obi wan ani jumps right over obi and stabs him in the chest and kicks his body down the lava bank he then kills sidous and claims the galaxy is his. That woulda screwed up star wars tho

No EU please.

My point is for the alternative ending is that the high ground had nothing to do with the victory as anakin jumped a little higher. But in episode 6 luke jumps to a high ground and vader lobs his lightsabre

Anakin wasn't concentrating on " where he was what he was doing!!" but obi wan was aware of his surroundings

OB1 listened to the lessons of Qui-Gon as he taught them to Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins.

indeed , qui gon trained batman, obi wan , and lead a special team of four guys ( A-team) obi wan was wise to listen to his master

He must be some kind of god...

Yes we must bow to Qui Gon