Lucifer morningstar & Michael vs these 3

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supremthor
Lucifer morningstar & Michael vs Molecule Man, the orginal Beyonder(marvel secret wars),Living Tribunal. who wins?

mdbull73
Molecule Man and Beyonder

Living Tribunal might be overkill

LordFear
I think Molecule Man is done because his opponents are practically Gods

kgkg
Originally posted by mdbull73
Molecule Man and Beyonder

Living Tribunal might be overkill
not really here is how i rank them.

Lucfier , M = Living Tribunal in power.

Pre - Beyonder > LT , Lucfier , M

MM - isn't that much of a deal in this multiversal battle.

B , LY , MM > Luci , and Mi

Xplosive
Well since this is Original Beyonder, I would put him above Michael or Lucifer. But I wouldn't put Molecule Man in these list, he indeed is very powerful, but when it comec to league of Original Beyonder, LT, Lucifer..., that is far too much and too above Molecule Man.

mdbull73
Ok, let me offer a more in-depth analysis.

The Original Beyonder, combined with the LT and the Molecule Man, in terms of raw power, would defeat Lucifer and Michael.

However, if Lucifer and Michael could use their intelligence to sucker the Beyonder into releasing some of his powers (Lucifer, after all, is the master of deception), then they would definitely have a better shot.

LordFear
I can't see someone who possesses half the power of a cosmic cube make a significant contribution when those two are coming at him full throttle. He''ll pee his pants and probably freak out and kill himself inadervantly

Xplosive
Originally posted by LordFear
I can't see someone who possesses half the power of a cosmic cube make a significant contribution when those two are coming at him full throttle. He''ll pee his pants and probably freak out and kill himself inadervantly

He is talking about Original Beyonder, when he was far above LT.

mdbull73
Remember, Mephisto ALMOST got the Beyonder to believe that he couldn't reclaim his powers in Secret Wars #2.

It seems to me from the threads that Lucifer is definitely more powerful and more intelligent than Mephisto.

Lucifer tricks the Beyonder over to his side, and then proceeds to annihilate the Molecule Man, LT, and his arch-nemesis Michael!

How about that for a plot twist?

GalacticStorm
I think the Marvel side would definitely win. It seems like Phoenix LT was based on kaballah principles. LT in shape, form and role is exactly the same as the archangel Metatron who unlike the other esteemed archangels of God remains in the world of man (our plane of existence) as a protector and sits on a throne and acts as a judge for the unknowable GOd. Metatron traditonally has multiple heads each representing different concepts and he is also golden in appearance. Metatron is held by God in higher esteem than Michael or Gabriel and one time when an assault was launched on heaven by the forces of evil, while Gabriel and Michael failed Metatron stooped the onslaught and barred the oppositions entry. Do you know that Dc's presence is also based on kaballah as well. Read the Phoenix Vs Galactus thread for more info or simply google the subject.

As it stands LT seems to be Marvels Metatron i mean he has the same appearance and the exact same role. LT going by this is more powerful than either of the two opposing archangels and the pre retcon beyonder it seems was made out to be more powerful than LT. MM is a non factor really

LordFear
Originally posted by Xplosive
He is talking about Original Beyonder, when he was far above LT.

I was referring to Molecule Man (Owen) who possesses half cosmic cube powers

Xplosive
Originally posted by LordFear
I was referring to Molecule Man (Owen) who possesses half cosmic cube powers

Sorry

LordFear
No problem

Synchro
Well, as most said, Molecule Man will be insignifiant in this fight. He's not up there with the 4. Which leaves us Pre-retconned Beyonder and Living Tribunal vs Lucifer Morningstar and Archangel Michael.

Ive always maintained that Lucifer and Michael are above LT, and IMO pound for pound Pre-retconned Beyonder easily rivals Michael and Lucifer 1 on 1(although I doubt he's above them). But I hear(correct me if Im wrong) that PR Beyonder, although very powerful, was kinda naive about human emotions and human behaviour. He's not familiar about concepts such as love, happiness, sadness, etc. obviously because he lives outside the Marvel Mutliverse. If that is the case then I can see Lucifer tricking him(as mdbull73 said) into losing since I would think that he doesnt know about trickery either and whether or not what Lucifer offers him will be right or wrong for him in the long run.

Either way, Im still going for Lucifer and Michael. Plus they can also finish off Beyonder and LT in a teamwork. I mean Lucy and Mikey, being brothers, have known each other for a long time and has experience working with each other, so I would think they would do well working together. LT and Beyonder, on the other hand, I cant see them working together.

GalacticStorm, sorry but LT is not equivalent to Metatron. They have the same role, but it does not mean they have the same power, because Metatron, as a judge, operates at a higher scale than LT. Not only does Metatron judges the world of man(and all of creation) he also is the judge of HEAVEN itself. LT does not judge Heaven(if there is even one in Marvel).

NOTE: what Im gonna write next applies only to our real world, not the comics world.

But even with that, Metatron isnt considered by a majority of people as above Michael and Lucifer. He might be the chancellor and judge of Heaven, but Michael is the vessel for God's divine power(Yes, this is in our real world, not only in the comics). Before Lucifer was cast down to hell, Lucifer was considered the greatest and most beautful of the angels, not Metatron. And when Lucifer rebelled against God, it was said that Michael, not Metatron, was the only one who can stop Lucifer.

Heck, to tell you the truth, it isnt even a fact that Metatron really exists. Some people(including majority of people in the Roman Catholic Church) contests the existence of Metatron.

supremthor
i dont see how LT or da beyonder can heart Lucifer morningstar. da reason is he stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, the explosion that could wipe out a multiverse, and didn't even get a tan. And lucf is just da brains and his bro Michael is more powerful dan him. I dont think da LT has da power needed to damage Lucifer morningstar & Michael. Da beyonder maybe.

gautam
yea....i agree....together Michael and Lucifer have the power to create a multiverse....i dont realy see LT being as powerful as them....maybe te beyonder....but still Michael and Lucifer win..

Beyonder
Originally posted by supremthor
i dont see how LT or da beyonder can heart Lucifer morningstar. da reason is he stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, the explosion that could wipe out a multiverse, and didn't even get a tan. And lucf is just da brains and his bro Michael is more powerful dan him. I dont think da LT has da power needed to damage Lucifer morningstar & Michael. Da beyonder maybe.

That's the problem. Lucifer did do that. Then again, he was apart of the creation process. It's existence was half do to his own power. And did not the multiverse die because Michael (the other creator) was killed?

Anyways, Lucifer has lost his powers before. He's also had his powers turned on him.



Yes..."together" they created the Multiverse. And together they're more powerful than LT. Alone however...

It goes something like this IMO:

Pre-Rec Beyonder>Lucifer=Micheal=LT.

PR. Beyonder's team would take this.

kgkg
Originally posted by Beyonder
That's the problem. Lucifer did do that. Then again, he was apart of the creation process. It's existence was half do to his own power. And did not the multiverse die because Michael (the other creator) was killed?

Anyways, Lucifer has lost his powers before. He's also had his powers turned on him.



Yes..."together" they created the Multiverse. And together they're more powerful than LT. Alone however...

It goes something like this IMO:

Pre-Rec Beyonder>Lucifer=Micheal=LT.

PR. Beyonder's team would take this.
ya

that's how i rank them to big grin

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