Mace shouldve killed palpy when he could

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Darth_fury
Mace took too long he already had his light sabre pointing at palpy he shouldve just stabbed him not try to make it look good

Darth_fury
who else thinks so

Revan Souer
You've opened a big can of worms now, just read ther thread on Is Sid faking or Did Mace win to see what I mean

THEJEDIMASTER
i agree

THEJEDIMASTER
but where'd u get that scene xD bootleg? or did u download it cuz if u dled it can u pm msg me and tell me where u got it

Darth_fury
i found it on that website

THEJEDIMASTER
ic

Yuxa
no mace couldnt kill palpatine. Palpatine was more powerful with the darkside.

DeVi| D0do
Palpatine woulda just zapped his ass...

matreid
Yep. He wouldn't let himself die by the hands of Mace.

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Yuxa
no mace couldnt kill palpatine. Palpatine was more powerful with the darkside.

It Mace didn't prop his arms up as slow as he did and just quickly jabbed him, it would be over.

Ken Kenobi
Originally posted by THEJEDIMASTER
but where'd u get that scene xD bootleg? or did u download it cuz if u dled it can u pm msg me and tell me where u got it

We all know that we are NOT allowed to discuss the bootleg on KMC. Thanks for pointing that out since I don't usually d/l files posted here from unknown users.

I am editing the link to the scene out.

Bicnarok
Fools, Palpatine "Acted" as if he was loosing so that anniken would help him, thus sliding a bit further towards the dark side.

He could have wasted Windu with the flick of his fingers

Ken Kenobi
Originally posted by Bicnarok
Fools, Palpatine "Acted" as if he was loosing so that anniken would help him, thus sliding a bit further towards the dark side.

He could have wasted Windu with the flick of his fingers

yes

LordSorgo
Originally posted by Bicnarok
Fools, Palpatine "Acted" as if he was loosing so that anniken would help him, thus sliding a bit further towards the dark side.

He could have wasted Windu with the flick of his fingers


no

DarkCrawler
Why did his face go deformed then? Was that on purpose too?

DeVi| D0do
Yup.

DarkYoda
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Why did his face go deformed then? Was that on purpose too?

He was revealing his true form. He was not actually deformed by the lightning. Think about it for just a second... does electricity turn one's skin white and into mush. Do their eyes also turn yellow? No.

Why was Luke not deformed? Or Anakin? Or Yoda when he got zapped?

DenKi
Darkyoda dont start, thats the stupidist thing ive ever read.

DeVi| D0do
DY is right. I don't see how people can't understand that... roll eyes (sarcastic)

grey fox
one shot from palps and we have kentucky fried windu

DarkYoda
Seriously... Luke got the worst lightning of anyone... he was flat out tortured by it for a lengthy period of time. If lightning deformed you (which Mace also got zapped insanely after that... he didn't turn into Michael Jackson big grin ) then Luke should have really been messed up. They were all smoking yes... but not deformed. Only slightly burned. erm

chilled monkey
Firstly, the reason Mace didn't kill Palpatine right away is because the Dark Side was clouding his vision and his ability to make decisions. Samuel L. Jackson said this in the OFFICIAL magazine. In a better time, he would have just killed him.

And no, Palpatine wasn't faking, he got his arse kicked. People keep forgetting that the movie is about ANAKIN, so it has to be that Palpatine needed him. If Palpatine could have won on his own, then Anakin is no longer important, he's just a bystander. The movie is about Anakin, not Palpatine.

PVS
before i saw ep3, i was a firm believer that palps was all powerful.
but can it be any more obvious that palps has his ass handed to him?

now, when he started with that "im too weak...dont kill me...please", THAT was total bullsh!t. mace had him in a corner and could have killed him if it wasnt for anakin.

DeVi| D0do
But Palpatine knew Anakin was coming. And he knew that he had to get in a vulnerable position in order to make it look like the Jedi were trying to take over.

I see no evidence that palps 'got his ass handed to him'. Though I have to admit there is really no evidence to support the contrary either...

That's how I see it anyway...

LordSorgo
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
But Palpatine knew Anakin was coming. And he knew that he had to get in a vulnerable position in order to make it look like the Jedi were trying to take over.

I see no evidence that palps 'got his ass handed to him'. Though I have to admit there is really no evidence to support the contrary either...

That's how I see it anyway...

Yet i see no evidence as to when Palpatine knew Anakin was coming, OR that he HAD to get in a vulnerable position. Or maybe he went in that position because his Lightsaber just got kicked out of a window onto the Coruscant Streets.

Alot of people are also saying that "Palpatine called out to Anakin". Wow, i have never heard worse bullshit than that. There is NO proof to that. I mean, i would understand if they showed Palps calling out to Anakin with the force, but no evidence holds this theory above water.

And i think Palpatine wanted Mace out of the window the whole time. I mean, why not let Anakin kill him? You let him kill Dooku, your Apprentice, but you can't let Anakin kill a Jedi Master in which you hate? Palpatine did not want to show his true face quite yet. He wanted to fry Mace out of the window, but all went unsuccessful when Mace blocked the Lightning and revealed his true facial appearance...

Or let me guess....

"LOLZ PALPZ SH0CKED MACEZ L!GHTSAB3R ON PORPOISE 2 SHOW ANIKIN HIS TRUE FORM! LMAOZ!"

I don't think so, Dumbass. If Palpatine could make a mask hiding his true appearance, it would be just as easy to use the force to show his true appearance.

Palpatine was glad that Anakin cut Maces paws off and got revenge by handing him the final blow: Which was Lightning that sent him fifty feet out of an office window.


IMO!

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by LordSorgo
Yet i see no evidence as to when Palpatine knew Anakin was coming, OR that he HAD to get in a vulnerable position. Or maybe he went in that position because his Lightsaber just got kicked out of a window onto the Coruscant Streets.I just said that there was no evidence of this. Did you even read my post?

Originally posted by LordSorgo
Alot of people are also saying that "Palpatine called out to Anakin". Wow, i have never heard worse bullshit than that. There is NO proof to that. I mean, i would understand if they showed Palps calling out to Anakin with the force, but no evidence holds this theory above water.How can people not get this? When Anakin is alone in the Council chambers he hears Palpatine say "You do know, if they destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost". How the hell do you think he was able to hear Palps saying that, through an intercom?

Originally posted by LordSorgo
And i think Palpatine wanted Mace out of the window the whole time. I mean, why not let Anakin kill him? You let him kill Dooku, your Apprentice, but you can't let Anakin kill a Jedi Master in which you hate? Palpatine did not want to show his true face quite yet. He wanted to fry Mace out of the window, but all went unsuccessful when Mace blocked the Lightning and revealed his true facial appearance...Of course Palpatine wanted Mace outta the window. Anakin didn't want to kill Mace he just didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
Palpatine was glad that Anakin cut Maces paws off and got revenge by handing him the final blow: Which was Lightning that sent him fifty feet out of an office window. yup.

PVS
thats a very tricky scene which can be translated many ways.

i think (here is where i get flamed) that palps expected anakin to turn him in. notice he didnt even ask anakin to not turn him in, but rather begged him to learn the dark side. he WANTED the jedi to come and attempt to arrest him. how else would he justify the jedi purge to the senate? 'assassination attempt', thats how.

but from the OT we learn palps' weakness...his overconfidence. i think he expected to wipe all 4 jedi out, but was bested by mace. fortune smiled on him however, since anakin showed up just in time to save him. i think palps set up that possability, but i cant see how he would have forseen the exact event.

i think in that scene it was all up in the air, and palps got lucky.

PVS
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
How can people not get this? When Anakin is alone in the Council chambers he hears Palpatine say "You do know, if they destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost". How the hell do you think he was able to hear Palps saying that, through an intercom?

from memory of their conversation, with dialogue after the scene cut...but i guess it is POSSIBLE that he was communicating to him....neither is proven, so its all opinion

DeVi| D0do
I dunno... it seemed like that conversation was at an end. But yeah, it's all opinion. The whole scene is a matter of opinion I think...

I think Palpatine was definitely overconfident, like you said...

But I think it was all in Palpatine's plan though... but it just didn't play out exactly as he expected. But it ended how he planned... so I definitely wouldn't say palps just got lucky.

PVS
i meant that he got lucky since anakin showed up a moment before mace was about to realise that he had to kill palps. it was a gamble. when he was bested he HOPED that it would turn out that way, but i dont think his plan depended on it. i think he would have killed mace if given the chance, but anakin was more or less his insurance.

DeVi| D0do
Ahh, I see.

hmm... but if he had killed Mace, Anakin would have had no reason to believe the Jedi were evil and trying to take over, he'd have known Palpatine was a lying manipulative mofo...

DarkYoda
I am so tired of this debate I am contemplating a turn to the DS myself... (DD you know what I mean laughing )

Palps wanted to reveal his true appearance to Anakin in a way that made it look like Mace had disfigured him. If Palps showed Anakin his true appearance without the pretense of Windu disfiguring him Anakin would be like crap... you are an evil son of a ***** aren't you!! You've been pretending to be this other person all along...

Ian McDiarmids performance is the key to all of this... it is SOOO over the top... "I am too weak... don't kill me... please... " In fact, to be honest with you, I think he was kind of shocked Anakin actually bought the bs he was spilling forth.

And yes, Palps did call to Anakin in the Jedi temple. Remember, powerful force users ARE telepathic. Remember Luke calling to Leia? Or Vader calling to Luke? Surely Vader and Palps could communicate telepathically also.

Palpatine may have genuinely been disarmed by Mace (unintentionally). But if he had not sensed confusion in Mace Windu (knowing that there was time to play) and sensed Anakin racing over to save him, he would have no doubt unloaded much more powerfully on Windu in the same way he did Yoda! Lightsaber or not, Sidious' lightning blasts are so powerful they can send you flying across the room or knock the lightsaber out of your hand.

Palpatine had to shock Mace for several reasons... to reveal his appearance and to reveal to Anakin that he truly DID know the darkside power. Anakin had never witnessed Palpatine use the darkside before. Palpatine even says so to Anakin, "I have the power to save the ones you love."

The climax to all of this and the finishing touch on it is when Palpatine jumps to life in a blaze of raw power and energy so violent and extreme(not drained or weakened like he pretended to be) that it throws Windu out the window.


POWER... UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by DarkYoda
I am so tired of this debate I am contemplating a turn to the DS myself... (DD you know what I mean laughing )

Palps wanted to reveal his true appearance to Anakin in a way that made it look like Mace had disfigured him. If Palps showed Anakin his true appearance without the pretense of Windu disfiguring him Anakin would be like crap... you are an evil son of a ***** aren't you!! You've been pretending to be this other person all along...

Ian McDiarmids performance is the key to all of this... it is SOOO over the top... "I am too weak... don't kill me... please... " In fact, to be honest with you, I think he was kind of shocked Anakin actually bought the bs he was spilling forth.

And yes, Palps did call to Anakin in the Jedi temple. Remember, powerful force users ARE telepathic. Remember Luke calling to Leia? Or Vader calling to Luke? Surely Vader and Palps could communicate telepathically also.

Palpatine may have genuinely been disarmed by Mace (unintentionally). But if he had not sensed confusion in Mace Windu (knowing that there was time to play) and sensed Anakin racing over to save him, he would have no doubt unloaded much more powerfully on Windu in the same way he did Yoda! Lightsaber or not, Sidious' lightning blasts are so powerful they can send you flying across the room or knock the lightsaber out of your hand.

Palpatine had to shock Mace for several reasons... to reveal his appearance and to reveal to Anakin that he truly DID know the darkside power. Anakin had never witnessed Palpatine use the darkside before. Palpatine even says so to Anakin, "I have the power to save the ones you love."

The climax to all of this and the finishing touch on it is when Palpatine jumps to life in a blaze of raw power and energy so violent and extreme(not drained or weakened like he pretended to be) that it throws Windu out the window.


POWER... UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!
clap

Agree with everything! Now, lets never speak of this again wink

Bardock42
Originally posted by DarkYoda
I am so tired of this debate I am contemplating a turn to the DS myself... (DD you know what I mean laughing )

Palps wanted to reveal his true appearance to Anakin in a way that made it look like Mace had disfigured him. If Palps showed Anakin his true appearance without the pretense of Windu disfiguring him Anakin would be like crap... you are an evil son of a ***** aren't you!! You've been pretending to be this other person all along...

Ian McDiarmids performance is the key to all of this... it is SOOO over the top... "I am too weak... don't kill me... please... " In fact, to be honest with you, I think he was kind of shocked Anakin actually bought the bs he was spilling forth.

And yes, Palps did call to Anakin in the Jedi temple. Remember, powerful force users ARE telepathic. Remember Luke calling to Leia? Or Vader calling to Luke? Surely Vader and Palps could communicate telepathically also.

Palpatine may have genuinely been disarmed by Mace (unintentionally). But if he had not sensed confusion in Mace Windu (knowing that there was time to play) and sensed Anakin racing over to save him, he would have no doubt unloaded much more powerfully on Windu in the same way he did Yoda! Lightsaber or not, Sidious' lightning blasts are so powerful they can send you flying across the room or knock the lightsaber out of your hand.

Palpatine had to shock Mace for several reasons... to reveal his appearance and to reveal to Anakin that he truly DID know the darkside power. Anakin had never witnessed Palpatine use the darkside before. Palpatine even says so to Anakin, "I have the power to save the ones you love."

The climax to all of this and the finishing touch on it is when Palpatine jumps to life in a blaze of raw power and energy so violent and extreme(not drained or weakened like he pretended to be) that it throws Windu out the window.


POWER... UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!


Palpatine also needed Anakin to save him so he could explain how he survived the attack by the jedi. Anakin saved him. Otherwise, how does an old man defeat 4 jedi? Lots of explaining to do I think! roll eyes (sarcastic)
clap

Didn't read anything of it, lets never speak of this again wink

LordSorgo
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I just said that there was no evidence of this. Did you even read my post?

How can people not get this? When Anakin is alone in the Council chambers he hears Palpatine say "You do know, if they destroy me any chance of saving her will be lost". How the hell do you think he was able to hear Palps saying that, through an intercom?

Of course Palpatine wanted Mace outta the window. Anakin didn't want to kill Mace he just didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine.

yup.

ourse Palpatine wanted Mace outta the window. Anakin didn't want to kill Mace he just didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine.


bullshit. He didn't give a fock. He was a spoiled, selfish brat.

DarkYoda
Also, Palpatine needed Anakin to save him so he could explain how he survived the attack by the jedi. Anakin saved him. Otherwise, how does an old man defeat 4 jedi? Lots of explaining to do I think! roll eyes (sarcastic)

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by LordSorgo
ourse Palpatine wanted Mace outta the window. Anakin didn't want to kill Mace he just didn't want Mace to kill Palpatine.


bullshit. He didn't give a fock. He was a spoiled, selfish brat.
I have officially lost any respect I still had for you.

This topic has been discussed to death and it seems we just keep going round in circles...

I've made my opinions clear (well, DY made them clear for me big grin), so I will not discuss it anymore

Bardock42
I agree that Anakin was a little brat, but he surely didn't kill Mace for the fun of killing Mace...not at that point.

DarkYoda
Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree that Anakin was a little brat, but he surely didn't kill Mace for the fun of killing Mace...not at that point.

Anakin didn't kill Mace. What the f**k?

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I have officially lost any respect I still had for you.

This topic has been discussed to death and it seems we just keep going round in circles...

I've made my opinions clear (well, DY made them clear for me big grin), so I will not discuss it anymore

And yes I agree. Let's not discuss anymore. It's clear to me... I'm sorry it's not clear for everyone else. I laugh at everyone! laughing

Bardock42
Originally posted by DarkYoda
Anakin didn't kill Mace. What the f**k?

Well yes cut his hand off....same difference stick out tongue

PVS
Originally posted by DarkYoda
Palps wanted to reveal his true appearance to Anakin in a way that made it look like Mace had disfigured him. If Palps showed Anakin his true appearance without the pretense of Windu disfiguring him Anakin would be like crap... you are an evil son of a ***** aren't you!! You've been pretending to be this other person all along...

wrong. anakin knew he was evil. anakin HATED him, as he stated and palps acknowledged. "I NEED HIM!!!" need him to teach him to use the darkside to prevent padme from dying. the hook was already sunk, no need for any more charades. palps was baiting anakin to attack mace, but anakin was already turned. his choice was already made to join sidious, thus the scene of him staring out the window towards padme's apartment. he was making a choice and the choice was made.

Originally posted by DarkYoda
And yes, Palps did call to Anakin in the Jedi temple. Remember, powerful force users ARE telepathic. Remember Luke calling to Leia? Or Vader calling to Luke? Surely Vader and Palps could communicate telepathically also.

its only been proven that those with a close bond (family) are able to comunicate in such a way. the only 2 to have an actual conversation was luke and vader at the end of ep5. or else, why would vader need to contact palps via hologram?

Originally posted by DarkYoda
Palpatine may have genuinely been disarmed by Mace (unintentionally). But if he had not sensed confusion in Mace Windu (knowing that there was time to play) and sensed Anakin racing over to save him, he would have no doubt unloaded much more powerfully on Windu in the same way he did Yoda! Lightsaber or not, Sidious' lightning blasts are so powerful they can send you flying across the room or knock the lightsaber out of your hand.

no no no. yoda was not bocking, as you can clearly see if you see frame by frame. yoda was hit square in the chest, whereas mace saw it coming and deflected. palps gave him all he had. notice how when yoda was on guard, he took everything palps had to throw at him, and absorbed/deflected the lightning.

Originally posted by DarkYoda
Palpatine had to shock Mace for several reasons... to reveal his appearance and to reveal to Anakin that he truly DID know the darkside power. Anakin had never witnessed Palpatine use the darkside before. Palpatine even says so to Anakin, "I have the power to save the ones you love."

palps was pleading to anakin to attack mace, yes. and the force lightning bought him time, since mace cant deflect and attack at the same time. but there is no way he purposely had mace reflect the lightning back at him. why would he need to reveal his true form? (i agree with the 'true form' theory btw).

DeVi| D0do
I guess we're not never speaking of this again stick out tongue

I'm too tired to read all that right now... I'll be back in the morning. big grin

DarkYoda
Originally posted by PVS
wrong. anakin knew he was evil. anakin HATED him, as he stated and palps acknowledged. "I NEED HIM!!!" need him to teach him to use the darkside to prevent padme from dying. the hook was already sunk, no need for any more charades. palps was baiting anakin to attack mace, but anakin was already turned. his choice was already made to join sidious, thus the scene of him staring out the window towards padme's apartment. he was making a choice and the choice was made.
Anakin did NOT hate Palpatine. Palpatine was his friend... his mentor... a father figure who gave him respect, dignity, and in a way, love (I know that sounds weird). And I think Anakin loved him in a way also. "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" So he obviously felt that the jedi were worse than Palps. Yes, he was making the choice in the council chamber. But Palpatine (like a satanic figure) gets in his mind to try to push him even further. What else would that line be? He never said it to Anakin beforehand for Anakin to be meditating on it. confused


Anakin and Palpatine had a close bond much like family... in fact, maybe there is more to that story (a whole other debate). The reason they would need to use a hologram is that they were separated by LONG distance. All other telepathic events happen when the individuals in question are near each other. And that "close bond" thing is not a hard and set rule. Lucas could change it if he wanted to. I sort of believe that Palpatine used Sith mind tricks during all of this. So he may have gotten in Anakin's head whether Anakin wanted him there or not. evil face


A lightsaber cannot block Sidious' lightning when it is full strength. Only Yoda's green holy hell can do that. Remember how Sidious' shocks it out of his hand. It is made of metal. Metal conducts electricity. Get a strong enough shock to the hilt and it will hurt like hell. And Palpatine still managed to hold Mace at bay. He was never fully defeated. Anakin was there and he had to lower his defenses and take a risk that Anakin would save him. Also Palp's version of force lightning is almost like a force lightning/force push at the same time. eek!


He wanted to reveal his true form because it took effort to hide it and he was a lazy son of a *****. He wanted Vader to do all the work for him. If Anakin was to become a sith, why would he want to hide his apearance from a fellow sith? Also, if the lightning hurt Palpatine, why would he keep letting himself be shocked by it? It was a convenient excuse to explain his true form to the senate also. wink He may not have planned to reveal it that way, but it was very convenient!

PVS
dude, WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT *ahem* sorry....where did you get the idea that anakin loved palps? that is 100% pure rubish.

from the moment anakin learned that palps was the sith lord he wanted to kill him. its more obvious than the nose on your face, you HAVE to see it.
"are you going to kill me?"
"i would very much like to"
"i know you would....i can FEEL your anger"

there is ZERO love and ZERO trust. really, let that idea go.

from the moment anakin turns to vader, you can see the shame in his eyes for becoming a slave to someone he hates. its all to save padme at first, and in the end his plan is to kill palps and take power. but ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE is it implied that anakin trusts palps in ANY WAY from the moment he learns the truth. he just wants to use palps. the whole time HE is being used, but there is no notion of friendship, and palps calling vader "my friend" is just as sincere as him calling yoda "my little green friend". vader knows this. he's evil, but he is in no way stupid.

there is no love or trust in the sith. dump that idea because its horeshit.

"A lightsaber cannot block Sidious' lightning. Only Yoda's green holy hell can do that. Remember how Sidious' shocks it out of his hand. It is made of metal. Metal conducts electricity. Get a strong enough shock to the hilt and it will hurt like hell. And Palpatine still managed to hold Mace at bay. He was never fully defeated. Anakin was there and he had to lower his defenses and take a risk that Anakin would save him. Also, if the lightning hurt Palpatine, why would he keep letting himself be shocked by it? It was a convenient excuse for his true form to use in the senate also."

"He wanted to reveal his true form because it took effort to hide it and he was a lazy son of a *****. He wanted Vader to do all the work for him. If Anakin was to become a sith, why would he want to hide his apearance from a fellow sith?"

dude, thats all 100% nonesense. palpatine had no reason to reveal himself as deformed. it only made him seem more evil and unfamiliar to anakin. im sorry, but that is all wrong.

dflood
no he shouldnt have . coz it wasnt the jedi way and if palps did die then 456 would be impossible

DarkYoda
(I had edited some of my post above and added some stuff before you posted this.)

Originally posted by PVS
dude, WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT *ahem* sorry....where did you get the idea that anakin loved palps? that is 100% pure rubish.

from the moment anakin learned that palps was the sith lord he wanted to kill him. its more obvious than the nose on your face, you HAVE to see it.
"are you going to kill me?"
"i would very much like to"
"i know you would....i can FEEL your anger"

there is ZERO love and ZERO trust. really, let that idea go.

from the moment anakin turns to vader, you can see the shame in his eyes for becoming a slave to someone he hates. its all to save padme at first, and in the end his plan is to kill palps and take power. but ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE is it implied that anakin trusts palps in ANY WAY from the moment he learns the truth. he just wants to use palps. the whole time HE is being used, but there is no notion of friendship, and palps calling vader "my friend" is just as sincere as him calling yoda "my little green friend". vader knows this. he's evil, but he is in no way stupid.

there is no love or trust in the sith. dump that idea because its horeshit.

Actually you're right about that. You'll have to forget me if I become a little idiotic after posting about something that has been argued to death on both sides for what seems like an eternity now.

I forgot that line about Anakin wanting to kill Palps. He was pissed at Sidious and wanted to betray him later after he learned the power. I think it was always a hate love relationship though. The way I should have put it is that they HAD a close bond before Palpatine revealed that he was a Sith lord. There is no reason for the connection that had been made to disappear. Instead of it being one of false friendship, it would be one of anger and hatred built on the rotting carcass of an old bond of friendship.



Reason 1: He needed some evidence for the senate...
Reason 2: He was lazy
Reason 3: He was evil and wanted to appear like his true self
Reason 4: This was the Sith's coming out party!!!
Reason 5: He needed Anakin to stop viewing him as Palpatine but as his evil master.
Reason 6: If he appeared deformed, Anakin might have some sympathy towards him.
Reason 7: It explained away his true self in a way that was less foreign to Anakin by letting it appear to be a disfigurement.


etc.

DarkYoda
Anyway... wacko This is giving me a headache. In reality, a lot of this is circumstantial, conincidental, and opinionated. It has been debated to death... and there are a lot of assumptions made on both sides. The truth of the matter is that GL wanted it to be confusing and controvertial to give fanboys something to waste their hours away with. That evil SOB!! mad

PVS
well, as far as palps "unmasking" and whether or not it was intentionally dropped or forced away is up for infinite debate.

but the idea that anakin has so much as a shred of admiration or respect for palpatine is so wrong. vader only wants palps killed and palps only wants vader replaced (after the mech suit). thats all there is to it. there is no friendship at all so drop that idea entirely. anakin THOUGHT he had a friend before he learned the truth, but after that there was nothing.

DarkYoda
Originally posted by PVS
well, as far as palps "unmasking" and whether or not it was intentionally dropped or forced away is up for infinite debate.

but the idea that anakin has so much as a shred of admiration or respect for palpatine is so wrong. vader only wants palps killed and palps only wants vader replaced (after the mech suit). thats all there is to it. there is no friendship at all so drop that idea entirely. anakin THOUGHT he had a friend before he learned the truth, but after that there was nothing.

Let it go. I said I agree with you on that point. wink

Happy Dance Can't we all just get along?!! laughing

newjak86
That's new DY is actually trying to play peacemaker normally he is the one who instigates everything.

DarkYoda
evil face

laughing

PVS
Originally posted by DarkYoda
Let it go. I said I agree with you on that point. wink

Happy Dance Can't we all just get along?!! laughing

well, you slipped in a hint of friendship with that 'love/hate' shit...quite sneaky.
did you think i would overlook that? stick out tongue

DarkYoda
I did think of one other point I would like to add about the telepathic conversation. We had WAY too many ideas on this being talked about at once. So let's simplify it if there is anymore discussion.

Vader and Luke were not close either. Vader had just chopped Luke's hand off. Luke had sympathy for Vader, but had only had minimal contact with him. They were still enemies, whether they were father and son or not. Obi-Wan talked to Luke telepathically also. Just remembered that. No one else heard Obi-Wan say... RUN Luke RUN! laughing So it wasn't just genetics linking people telepathically. I hope that made sense. roll eyes (sarcastic) When we get too many ideas floating around at once it makes it harder to discuss.

Darth Plagueis
This was the most recent "Was Palpatine faking" similar thread for me to bump and share this little "set diary" tidbit posted at the OS today:

Was Palpatine Faking?
It's one of the fieriest debates of online fan forums: when Palpatine was cornered in his office's giant window-frame, was he really overpowered by Mace? Or was he faking to lure Anakin? Could Mace really have gotten the upper hand on the Sith Lord?

George Lucas is the ultimate keeper of the true answer, and he's not telling... yet, anyway. If you had asked me in the Summer of '03, when the sequence was first shot, I would have had a solid answer. But, if you asked me in the Fall of '04, when the sequence was re-shot, well... for those who want to debate, it's best to know more of the story of how this scene came to be.

This entire sequence changed significantly during postproduction. What we witnessed in Sydney told a different story. Anakin did not earn Mace's trust by ratting out Sidious right away. He did not agonize over his decisions while sitting alone in the Jedi Council chamber. He did not rush in at the last minute to witness a questionable balance of power. Instead, he stayed at Palpatine's side, in the Chancellor's private office, as Mace and his posse of Jedi barged in.

"Stand behind me," ordered Mace, in Sam Jackson's demanding tones. But Anakin didn't budge. Instead, he watched passively as Palpatine used the Force to snatch Anakin's lightsaber from his belt and attacks Mace and the Jedi. There's ample evidence of this original version for those with sharp eyes and behind-the-scenes photos. Heck, even Hasbro action figures with Palpatine packaged with Anakin's lightsaber got out there in the initial shipments.

So, if Sidious' entire duel played out before Anakin's stunned eyes, I'd be inclined to think that his fall was just for show. This changed after a screening George Lucas held for a few key colleagues. Their reactions underscored the shortcomings of the way this duel was constructed. Anakin's inaction was hard to justify cinematically. "The story was there, but it wasn't clear," said Lucas at the time it came to rebuild this scene. "It was too abstract. We opened up that part and looked at what we could do."

When word of the change came down, the keepers of continuities started carefully tracking the evolving consequences. Palpatine had two lightsabers, then, since he loses this one in the duel with Mace. I still have in my inbox a tentative email from one of the authors asking, "um, have we figured out yet whose lightsaber Palpatine uses in the fight with the Jedi?"

At first, it was feared it was impossible to CG the small svelte-handled weapon over Anakin's relatively chunky handle, but nonetheless, that was the lightsaber given to McDiarmid for the pickup photography. The shots of Palpatine rising from his chair and extending the weapon were reshot. The bulk of the duel between Sidious and Mace stayed from principal photography, except for a new touch -- a kick to Palpatine's face, done with stunt double Michael Byrne. This was shot on a partial set of just a piece of window-frame on Friday, August 27.

So... with this revised duel, if Sidious threw the fight, it places an awful lot of faith on Anakin's timing ...and he suffered a kicked-in face to boot. For what it's worth to those arguing, I doubt there's anyone who thinks Palpatine's serious when he claims he's too weak. That's obviously a lie. But was the fall into the corner that preceded his pleas for help a lie as well?

What else changed in this scene? There are a few more interesting details, particularly where it moved in the sequencing of the story. But that will have to wait for another entry.

DarkYoda
Interesting... it is obvious George Lucas is an evil bastard that likes to play with our minds. evil face laughing

Darth Plagueis
No doubt. The most interesting line is:
"For what it's worth to those arguing, I doubt there's anyone who thinks Palpatine's serious when he claims he's too weak. That's obviously a lie."

That fits with my stance on this never-ending debate...

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