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I don't think you can rilly sin. Every mistake you make is ignorant and just somthing you need to learn from. Right? It is natural for all of us to make mistakes according to our personallitys. We are not Indebt to god if we sin. We can't halp but make mistakes. It is natural. And if god created jesus perfict than why didin't he create us perfict. Are we a messup or a expermin't to see if we will sin?

Any opinions?

Yes we sin, just like the murderer, the robber, con artist, and drug dealar can break the law.

Originally posted by XxoooxX
I don't think you can rilly sin. Every mistake you make is ignorant and just somthing you need to learn from. Right? It is natural for all of us to make mistakes according to our personallitys. We are not Indebt to god if we sin. We can't halp but make mistakes. It is natural. And if god created jesus perfict than why didin't he create us perfict. Are we a messup or a expermin't to see if we will sin?

Any opinions?

You make some valid points.To me it always seemed liked we where Gods little experiment.Another thing i wonder is (and this question was also brought up in the Sword of Constatine),why would an all powerful,loving God,send his son to be nailed to a cross?It would make more sense for God made flesh to stay on Earth and set an example for all people.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
You make some valid points.To me it always seemed liked we where Gods little experiment.Another thing i wonder is (and this question was also brought up in the Sword of Constatine),why would an all powerful,loving God,send his son to be nailed to a cross?It would make more sense for God made flesh to stay on Earth and set an example for all people.

To be an example can not last forever, but it rings throughout the ages...

But it's pointless to leave everyone in the dark.

we sin all the time. the true definition of sin is missing the mark, not measuring up to perfection. True sin is separation of God.

We aren't perfect because we chose not to when we sinned in the garden and that is why we make mistakes. Jesus is perfect because he is from heaven and we aren't from heaven but the ground itself.

Originally posted by cking
We aren't perfect because we chose not to when we sinned in the garden and that is why we make mistakes.
Where is the first mention of the concept of original sin found in the bible?

i cant sin

Originally posted by Storm
Where is the first mention of the concept of original sin found in the bible?

It's not.

i guess you can do bad things but i wouldnt call them sins

its all part of the experience

yes exactly it is all about experience. If there wernt people doing wrong things in this world it would be boring everything so butterflyie perfict pink boring, somtimes it is good to have wrong.

Originally posted by cking
we sin all the time. the true definition of sin is missing the mark, not measuring up to perfection. True sin is separation of God.


There is no separation from god.

I wouldn't count on that.

Cristians tell me that the only way yo go to hell is if you have seen god and you still deny him?

Thats about the sickist thing I have every herd. God loves us and he would send us to hell for not beliveing in him? that is stupid.

If this is ture and they rilly belive this, than god couldin't be perfict loveing.

If there was no separation from God then God wouldn't make all those judgements on Israel. Sin is separation from God. It would be like a human going to heaven they can't stand the perfect holiness of it and they will die because of their sin. God does not tolerate sin. He still judges justly on sin back in the beginning and still does today. God demands perfection and holiness and that is why he sent his son to the cross so man and God could be friends again. God is like a father to his children, if a child does something that we shouldn't do then God corrects us and if they do it even through they have heard they have already disobeyed and God will punish them like a father punishes a child. It would be like a father telling a child not to steal but they do it anyway and look what happens to them, the same is with God. God gives a person a choice to be with him or be against him. That is why God has humans as the crown creation because of free choice. Back in the old testament people would have burnt offerings, grain offerings, and fellowship offerings, for certain sins, but not all. With enough faith they hope God will accept it, but sometimes he won't. That is why the new covenant is a better one, because one perfect sacrifice is better than a thousand ones. The old testament sacrifices would only cover certain sins, that is if you have enough faith and sorry for your sins, he would accept it. God didn't want them anymore because they weren't Good enough and people weren't willing to do it. Noah had a burnt offering after the flood, God smelled how sweet it is and he made a vow not to destroy the world with a flood and a sign would be the rainbow. If people are separated from God then that is there fault because they didn't do what the lord has commanded them to do to believe in his son and so they aren't welcomed in heaven and they are sent off to where the devil and his angels live. look at what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31 "When the son of man comes in his glory and all his angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them one from another, just as a Shepperd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on his left. Then the king will say to those on his right, come, you who are blessed by my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink; I was a stranger and you took me in; I was naked an you clothed me, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me. Then the righteous will answer him, lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and take you in, or without clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and visit you? "And the king will answer them, I assure you: whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of min, you did for me. Then he Will also say to those on the left, depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angles! For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink; I was a stranger and you didn't take me in; I was naked and you didn't cloth me, sick in prison and you didn't take care of me. "Then they too will answer, lord when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help you? "Then he will answer them, I assure you: whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me either. "and they Will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

God doesn''t have a whip.....What kind of FATHER would eternally punish his children in such a way.

Ya there are far better ways to teach a lesson to someone than punishing them for ever and ever and ever

Originally posted by XxoooxX
Ya there are far better ways to teach a lesson to someone than punishing them for ever and ever and ever


Well in reincarnation, karma would be a way to learn those lessons. In a fair and balanced way...

The cristian god has no logic

Originally posted by XxoooxX
The cristian god has no logic

Because it's based on myth...

if a person in their hearts decides to reject God for no purpose, he has no choice to, he cannot let them in heaven, just like the angel cannot let Adam and eve back into the garden again. God will never force a person, he gives us free will. sin is pain, sin is death.

Sin-1:An offense againt God. 2:MISDEED, FAULT

I guess under those standards yes we can...

If there was no purpose for rejecting god than why would anyone reject hem?

unless he was just trying to do randome things

Originally posted by XxoooxX
I don't think you can rilly sin. Every mistake you make is ignorant and just somthing you need to learn from. Right? It is natural for all of us to make mistakes according to our personallitys. We are not Indebt to god if we sin. We can't halp but make mistakes. It is natural. And if god created jesus perfict than why didin't he create us perfict. Are we a messup or a expermin't to see if we will sin?

Any opinions? The only way somebody can sin is to balaspheme the holy spirit and if he did he would know it but would not care. All these other things that we call sins could more accurately be called sin consequences or the consequences of sin. Adam sinned, his seed along with everything else became corrupted that sin nature passed through his seed. We inherate a tendency to commit sin but Jesus paid for it on the cross. Since all sin leads to death and jesus died for us that sin consequence is paid for. You're going to make mistakes which might be called sinning, but it is not imo sinning. The question of whether you can lose your salvation or not is an age old debate that probably won't get solved anytime soon but Ithink the bible says you can't.

Originally posted by debbiejo
God doesn''t have a whip.....What kind of FATHER would eternally punish his children in such a way. The jews don't believe in hell, I wonder why we do. They don't believe in a lot of other christian doctrine but I think they're right about this one. I never could understand how an all loving God could send anybody to an eternal torment. Ezekial chapter 14:12 I think says the wicked will die not burn in hell forever. Revelation 22 talks about that too. No where does it say that people will burn in hell forever when taken in context. You can make the bible say a lot of things it doesn't say.Why would God want to make someone burn forever, that idea connotes a very sadistic god.

you can't lose your salvation, for Jesus says this no angel, human or any other can take them out of my hand. We are his possessions and we are never lost again. If people lost their salvation, then jesus would have to come back and die again. He died once and for all for man and that is the perfect sacrifice for God. once saved always saved.

Originally posted by Storm
Where is the first mention of the concept of original sin found in the bible? I think it'S verse 2 of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat but of the tree of good and evi, for on thev day thou eatest thereuf thou shalt surely die.

they believe in hades, which is a translation of hell. Here is what Jesus says about hell. if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of the parts of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better you lose one of the parts of your body than for your whole body to go to hell!

they chose to go to hell, they already condemned themselves.

God demands perfection and a eternal relationship with him, that is why Jesus died so we would be perfect spiritually. God is a god of justice, he is offended when we sin against him. God doesn't want people to be separated form him. If Jesus didn't die that day we would all be doomed. After Jesus died there was an earthquake and the temple split into two, that demonstrates God's justice on the cross of sin and forgiveness. When Jesus said it is finished! it means God's payment of sin is paid and then people have the permission to go to heaven blameless through Christ.

Hades...Sheol...pit...hell...Gehenna....http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14706.htm

france........ rome..........EU parliament