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Who would win in a fight to the death? Both Sith Lords are at the peak of their power.

I voted Revan, just because of the tactical factor. Although Exar Kun was hella powerful, he was more of a wild card and less of a cool Sith leader, from what I recall.

Thats basically what i was thinking. It would be close, but Revan would win.

And his background wasn't as extensive in learning as was Revan, who was obssessed with knowledge and learning Sith lore, including fighting techniques.

Exar Kun would surely win. Revan wouldn't even be a Sith if it wasn't for Kun.

That's a rather haphazard logic there.

yeah, where did he come up with that? Revan became a Sith on Malachor V because it's an ancient planet sized sith storehouse of knowledge. Revan learned everything he could about the tombs, relics, artifacts, etc. and then 2 years later he lost his memories. 1 year after that with relatively little jedi training, Revan was even more powerful than he was during his first reign (right before he killed Malak.) Then in KOTOR 2, the Sith holocron shows Bastila saying that Revan's full memories returned after that, so all of his knowledge of the Sith and Malachor V would be back, greatly enhancing his power. Thats why I think Darth Revan would win.

And those are very good points. Well said.

Revan......both would be hurting though

I agree. Say, where' ya been, Julie? I was not having so much fun all by myself. Us assassin HK models need to stick together, lest we be outgunned by inferior meatbags.

statement: it is good to be back in service, I had a few ecology teaching meatbags to take care of:-)

Uninformed Observation: Perhaps it would be best if you left instruction up to the master.

where is the tie option????
joke i think revan would win but very hard,kun is strong like hell

I agree.

Well you'll all probably hate me, but I have to say Exar would win.
I think this because he was an exceptional duelling master.
He also was able to freeze the entire senate with one spell and then resuce his apprentice and kill an extremely powerful jedi master and nobody could do a thing about it.
The jedi order also sent thousands of jedi to kill Exar, they only sent what, 3 made it to the bridge to fight Revan, so say they sent 20. That tells you right there that the jedi considered Exar a bigger threat. This is espically important since it was around 40 years after Exar's rise and the jedi would have been under the public eye and not wanting to appear weak infront of the new sith, but they still only sent a handful of people against the new threat. Like I said above, against Exar they sent thousands.
And Exar did study alot, Vodo-Baas says that Exar is the most powerful student he has ever trained and the most powerful force user of that time, and Vodo was similar to Yoda, he trained lots of jedi over a long period of time, and if Exar was the best, that means something. Now I know that Kreia said Revan was the best she ever trained, but she was not several hundred years old.
Exar also studied alot, he was fasinated by the sith teachings in Vodo's holocron, maybe not as much as Revan, but he was still extremely smart. Exar also learned under the ancient sith, like Freedon Nadd and Marka Ragnos, he would still be very smart. It is also worth noting that the ancient sith said that Exar would be the one to bring about the golden age of the sith and said that he was the Dark Lord of the Sith, over Ulic-Qel Droma. So that's my rebuttle to the 'Revan's far smarter and would thus win arguement'
Exar Kun was also able to destroy the entire massassani race, quite a feat. Sure he did it when he was about to be destroyed, but Revan never did that when the jedi strike force came, maybe becuase he could have won, but maybe because he didn't know how or didn't have the power.
Also, some people seem to think that Revan would win just because he is a tactician, yes it would help him, but Exar was a tactician too, not at the same level as Revan, but it would help to negegate Revan's advantage. With that not as effective, and Exar being just as strong in the force and probably a better dueller, Exar would win. Yes, I do know that he attacked Coursant far too soon, but that was Ulic-Qel Droma's problem, he disobeyed orders, Exar was forced to rescue him and reveal himself sooner than he wanted too.
Talking about Ulic, he was a powerful jedi and dueller in his own right, but Exar was his almost unquestioned master and the ancient sith said that Kun would be the dark lord, not Ulic, this means that Kun is stronger than Ulic was.
He was also able to hide as a sith in the middle of the jedi stronghold (Ossus) and recruit jedi to become sith, without the jedi even knowing what he was doing, that's got to take some pretty impreesive power. He decived the best jedi in the order, took sith stuff and recruited new allies from the midst of the jedi ranks, lied to the jedi masters, and they couldn't even tell it was going on!
Also, he invented his own lightsaber, Exar was the person who invented the double blade lightsaber. He would then designed his own, unique, style of combat, something Revan would hardly have seen, giving Kun another advantage.
He is also an amazing dueller, after he decided to try against Vodo (a lightsaber master), Vodo died in around 10 seconds, before that Kun was just toying with him. Toying with him! In the middle of the senate chamber on the same planet as the jedi temple, he could still toy with one of the best duellers in the jedi order and win hands down.
Most important, Exar killed Freedon Nadd and in KotOR II, Nadd is described by someone, can't remember who, as being far more powerful than Revan and Malak, so that does it for me, Exar would win. Though it would be an awesome fight.

Hm. Alright. I hate you.

No, really. I'm kidding. But some good points. I don't know as much about Exar as I'd like. BUt let me see if I can refute any of your points, because otherwise what purpose would my post serve, hm?

It is doubtful the Jedi Order would have been able to field thousands to attack Revan, for many reasons... First, the Jedi Order was weaken by the war with Kun, which was still fresh in many minds. Second, the Republic was waging a war with Revan on many fronts. Being a tactical genius, Revan was probably able to keep the majority of Republic forces and Jedi at bay. The couple that slipped through were probably a small unit with a special task. I'm curious as to whether Revan let Bastila get that close to capture her or not, since it seems ludicrous that he would let a bunch of Jedi board his flagship and make it all the way to his bridge without taking measures. He was a leader of armies, after all. All things should be taken into account when considering this idea, not just the number of Jedi sent.

Secondly, Exar Kun was an amazing duellist and a sith lord. He learned from many great sources, and I do not doubt his prowess. But remember that he was an impatient learner who was lured by the Sith teachings. Unlike Revan, who had soaked up as much Jedi lore as he could before soaking up enormous amounts of Sith lore, Exar Kun was a bit of a rebel. It is possible he did not learn as well as he should of. Dedication is key here. Unless I am mistaken, I think Revan would be much more dedicated in his studies. And he has one major advantage over Exar Kun and his abilities- Revan lived in a post-Kun era. He would be studying everything he could about the late Sith lord. It would be like sending a present day general back to fight Patton or Rommel. There would be the edge of knowledge, both of past events and of the more recent present. An advantage to consider.

As for the title Dark Lord of the Sith, we all know the sith titles are transitionary. Dith teachings are of achieving power and using power, never maintaining power. While Exar Kun's rise to power marked perhaps the peek of Sith power, it could be said, from any point of view, that previous and coming sith lords were as notable... that is, based on current situation. I find it hard to believe that dead Sith lords know the future quite like that, anyways. But back to my point, you can say that Marka Ragnos is the most powerful Sith... but that may only be true at a certain time, or from a certain point of view. Just something to consider...

As for deceiving Jedi, apparently that takes little skill at all, since Palpatine did it, Revan did it, and others have, to some degree or another. It's nice, and it certainly adds to his prestige... but it means little here.

And lastly, I hope I stumble across that quote in KOTOR II tonight, when I visit Korriban and Dxun in game, because I don't quite recall it. Not calling you a liar or anything... I just honestly don't recall it. But then, it wouldn't surprise me. Kreia has stated that current Sith lords are like children compared to the Sith lords of old. And I have a feeling she wasn't refering to Exar Kun. Perhaps more along the lines of Ragnos or Pall.

good points, and I now do wonder if Revan did let Bastila reach him on purpose, hmm...
Anyway, I think that you are underestimating Kun's knowledge, he tooks loads of stuff from Ossus, which was later destroyed by him so Revan couldn't have learned anything from it, used sith holocrons and had the private notes of Naga Sadow, another sith who could blow up a sun.
I think that Sadow's notes would be at least equal to Trayus acadamy. Trayus Acadmy was for teaching children, like the jedi temple library, it wouldn't hold the best stuff. Naga Sadow however was the dark lord of the sith, that would be more like the jedi council library, it would hold the best stuff. Even if Kun didn't have the thirst for knowledge the same way Revan did, he had better things to study from. For instance, if you put an 80% average student (ie. Kun) in the same room as Einstein, the Harvard Library etc. for 4 months, and then put 95% (ie. Revan) average student in the town library for 8 months, the 80% student would learn more and become smarter.
And yes it is true that other sith have decived jedi, you have a point with that.
Actually it never says in KotOR II that Exar was stronger than Nadd. However, it does say on Dxun, I'm pretty sure by Mandalore, might be Atton I'm not sure though, the second time you're on Dxun, that Nadd is 100 times stronger than Revan and Malak could ever hope to be.
Now 100 times has got to be exergerating, but the point is Nadd is stronger.
Also Kun did defeat Nadd and learn from him, so thus I say that if Nadd is stronger than Revan and Kun beats Nadd, Kun is stronger than Revan.

No, I know it was Xarga, a mandalorian that says that he HEARD that Freedon was WORSE (not stronger) than Revan and Malak. Not much evidence. Next, you are seriously underestimating Malachor V. It turned everyone except for two people to the dark side. Revan and the Exile, (who lost his connection to the Force because of it.) Like I said, Malachor V was a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. Revan learned how to kill jedi and how to convert them. Revan knew A LOT of ways to kill jedi which he programmed into HK-47, and he teaches the exile with enough influence. That knowledge alone gives him a big advantage. Next, Revan did search through at least 4 tombs of very powerful Sith Lords, gaining Sith artifacts and even Tulak Hord's holocron. Tulak was one of the greatest duelists ever and he recorded his teachings of this onto that holocron that Revan picked up. We learn all this from Kreia in KOTOR 2. So thus, I say that Revan was probably more powerful.

ok Darth Revan33, the Mandalorian quote about Nadd may not be accurate, but Kreia also says that the ancient sith were far stronger than the sith of today, Nadd was an ancient sith, Kun killed him.
And yes, I guess it would be impractical to send 10 000 jedi onto one ship, but should't they have sent more than they did? Well I guess Darth Janus answered that when he said that since Revan was such a genius he would have had most of the jedi engaged. Alright, you have that.
And its true that Revan did all those things in the game (except the 2 sith lords, whose the second, unless are you counting Bandon?) but frankly I don't think it matters much to take out an acadamy, they are only half trained, the only advantage they have is numbers, against skill, they would fall. I think that if Exar Kun invaded the academy, it would have fallen as well.
Also I don't see the connection between since Revan defeated three terenteks, and Ulic's cousin lost to one, Revan is stronger than Exar. Sorry that came out a bit harsh, or it might be that I think it is harsh as I am typing at 2 in the morning, whatever. But still, just because someone is good, doesn't mean that their cousin will be, for all we know, Duron could have been pathetic. If I am the strongest, fastest man in the world, and you are my cousin, does that make you my equal? Nope, you may have potential, but if you don't fufill that potential, it is useless.

actually about Tulak Hord's holocron, I don't think Revan has it, remember in the first KotOR when you can help Loweshe get a holocron that a tukta ate from within Tulak Hord's tomb, I think that is the holocron, nice contenuity thing if it is.
And about Malachor turning everyone except Revan and the Exile to the dark side, it did turn Revan, he was just strong enough to escape

Well, I am 99.9% sure about the mandalorian quote. and Kun killed Nadd's spirit just like Revan killed Ajunta Pall's spirit. the only reason I threw in the part about the Sith academy was because of the part you said about Exar Kun freezing the Senate. I'm sure that Exar Kun could've taken out the academy as well, I just wanted to refute your part about Exar Kun and the Senate. Lastly, the tarentateks killed many jedi. So much that the jedi ordered the great hunt to try and get rid of them. Three of Vodo's students were killed by the same three tarentateks that Revan killed (two of them by himself at the same time).

Revan got the Sith holocron from Jorak Uln, not the tukata and it was Revan's choice to go to the dark side, he did not fall. Once again, Kreia tells the Exile all this and it is on the official website.

oh yes I had forgotten about Revan destroying Pall's spirit, guess they're equal with that
were the 3 terentek hunters Vodo's students? Not saying you're wrong, just cannot remember

actually Revan didn't get a holocron from Jorak, he got a tablet, its been a while since I played, but I think thats all he got, a sith tablet with writing on it and Joraks code to read it

sorry to interupt but how did you finish kotor(dark or light)

yeah, you're right. I forgot it was a sith tablet but it may have contained things about Tulak's holocron if Jorak found it. Even if it didn't, there is also the chance that the tukata holocron could be it too. As for the students, I am about 75% sure that they were vodo's students so I will check to make sure. And to answer Kun-ni Habeo's question, this is saying that Revan returned to the dark side (which seems to be the official ending anyway.)

To answer your question Kun-ni Habeo, I ended KotOR with the dark side ending, though I have played it through light side as well. Personally I prefer the dark side better.
About the tablet, its possible that it had stuff about the holocron, but I doubt it, even if it did, it wouldn't be as effective since it would be hard to learn lightsaber stuff by reading it

Hm. I could imagine. Also, I was thinking, while I'm on the idea... Darth Nihilus -does- speak ancient Sith, as was suggested to me on another thread, since I listened to the Sith holocrons speaking during the fight with Atris. It's pretty much the same language.

Alright, that said... I beat KOTOR on both endings. Honestly, I liked the bad one better. Gave me hope for a sequel. But I haven't heard of an official site that gives the real ending... anyone care to toss a link at me?

http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/indexDark.html

That is the official kotor 2 website. if you look in the chronicle section at either 11 or 12, it says Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Revan went to the outer rim, etc. I too, much preferred the dark side ending.

really the dark side ending is the true one? thanks, I never knew that before

light Revan could have gone there too...to the outer rim etc

The chronicles seem a bit open-ended about which way Revan could have gone, really. Though it would make sense that Revan went bad because Canderous ended up mauled and left for dead, and either way Revan delving back into Sith secrets would only produce bad results.

@Darth Revan33
that is official
but my revan is good boy

Exar Kun

That's it? Come on, Jack... give us a few reasons why. No one cares just to read posts where people go...

Maul.

Vader..

Maul and Vader...

Yoda..

Bush...

It is kinda... hm. Pointless, unless we all care about your opinion in its brevity.

well whatever i say gets attacked and/or ignored, so sometimes i dont bother, and i am not so up to snuff about these two gents. im way into the movies........so im afraid my opinion wouldnt be too amazing, im just goin by what things i do know.

Where did Revan Darkstar go? It was kinda fun debating with him...

What if Revan when lightside ...or was a chick?

I'm still here Darth Revan33, I just went on holiday for a bit. By the way, nice post, well layed out.

However, about Malak saying that he didn't think it was possible for Revan to get any stronger than he was, well thats nice and all, but Malak was not the best judge. He hadn't been sith lord that long, and maybe never even saw Revans full power. Yes Revan was incredible, but I'm not sure how much stronger he would have been at the end of KotOR than he was before, because remember beofre he did have all that knowledge.

And about never seeing Revans full powers, good point (by the way, does anyone know when KotOR 3 is coming out), but we never really saw Exars full powers either. Yes he is now dead, but he was faced against over a thousand jedi, nobody could stand against that. However, what we did see of Exar was more impressive battle wise than Revan, Revan may have more brains, but battlewise, what we know of Exar is more impressive.

Kun was able to walk into the heart of the republic senate, freeze them all, kill their leader and a jedi master, and walk out, nobody could do a thing. This is in the heart of the jedi order! He was also able to kill a beast which is probably very similar to a terentek, or better, with very few problems. Exar was also able to walk into another jedi stronghold (Ossus), kill more jedi, steal the artifacts, and walk out again, unharmed. He was also able to destroy Freedon Nadd with no problems.

Now, lets go over what Revan did in combat (not tactics). He was able to kill Mandalore, Yusanis, 4 terentek (2 at the same time), Ajunta Pall's spirt, dozens of sith on the star forge, Darth Bandon and Darth Malak, that we know of. I'm not counting the troopers becuause I think we all agree that any sith lord could deal with troopers, the fact that Revan killed dozens doesn't really matter.
Now, that is an impressive list, however, I again think we can all agree that Exar could have killed Mandalore and Yusanis. I'm just guessing, but I will say that the beast he killed is the equal to a terentek, and since Revan had help on some of the others, I think Exar could have done that too. About Ajunta Pall's spirt, well this is difficult, we don't know who is stronger, Nadd or Pall, however I do think Pall. But to defeat him, Revan did have 2 other people with him, 2 people that Exar didn't have when he killed Nadd. Not sure who you had with you when you killed Pall, but I had Candarous and Hk-47. Now if Exar had an assassin droid and a mandalorian with him, I think he could have killed Ajunta as well. Now, we reach the sith section, I will just discount the dozens of sith on the star forge, I think that any decent sith lrod could have done that. Bandon, again the same thing, he was an apprentice so any decent sith lord could kill him. Now Malak, a good fight, but I think that if him and Exar were to meet, Exar would blow what remains of his jaw off. So really, from what we have actually seen of Revan in combat, Exar (or most other sith) could have done that as well. Not saying Revan's bad, hes very powerful. But, he's more of a tactician.

If this were just brains, Revan, but in battle, Exar, though it would be close.

Against malak just take out his little jedi friends early then malak's a nobody against the power of Revan. Though I do agree Revan's forte is tactics

Hmm. Good Points. I didn't realize how many similar things they did. As for Ajunta's spirit, I always go to Korriban last, so I am at my most powerful when I fight Ajunta Pall. But still, there's no need for others, (you dont actually need any) I can kill Ajunta Pall in two or three attacks. I personally think that Freedon was stronger than Pall. Now moving on to Exar Kun's spirit. He was destroyed by twelve padawan Jedi and only two of them had lightsabers. That was weaker than I thought he should have been and I know there's no way to compare that to Revan, but Ajunta's spirit put up more of a fight than that.

Lastly, I do agree that Exar Kun could probably have done most of the things that Revan did, but on the other hand, Revan could have probably done most of the things that Exar Kun did. Another point, Malak would have been the best judge of Revan's power while he was the Dark Lord of the Sith (first time) because Malak was Revan's apprentice for two years. Then seeing Revan on the Star Forge, it must have been difficult for a guy like Malak to say that Revan was even stronger since then. No, its not proof, but there would be no point in Malak lying. So there's probably a 99% chance that its true.

To Julie's other post: If Revan returned to the Light Side then I think that Exar Kun would have won because Revan would no longer have the power of all that knowledge from Malachor V, the Sith artifacts, teachings, etc. Also Revan is referred to as a 'he' on the KOTOR 2 official website, not to mention in KOTOR 2 if you set Revan's gender to female there are still some instances where people mess up and call her a male. About the Dark Side part, it does say in th official KOTOR 2 website chronicles that after Revan defeated Malak, DARK LORD OF THE SITH, DARTH REVAN traveled to the unknown regions, etc. Also it goes much better with the storyline that way. No one ever mentions Vandar in KOTOR 2, Mission, Zaalbar, Jolee, Juhani, etc. The Jedi are all but extinct, and if Revan was on the light side, I couldn't see him just leaving Bastila (whom is not fighting against the Sith for some reason). The dark side ending just seems to fit better.

well i still think exar would win, because he was prolly the1 with best teachers.
he was suppose to be turned to dark side by ghosts of sith lords on koriban, so taught by sith lords is somethin revan didnt have.
also revan was great tactician, but in 1-1 duel would it help? dont think so.
revan did acomplish bunch of great stuff, but so did exar, and if a game was made about exar, i am pretty sure there were also more extreme stuff then killin Pall and 2 terentatek.

so dont get me wrong, i love revan, but exar ws just more powerfull

I agree with Naga Sadow, being trained by the ancients is something that Revan didn't have. He did have Trayus Academy, but learning from books and learning from a person are different things.

About Exar being defeated by 12 people, only 2 which had lightsabers, might I add that one of those people was Luke Skywalker, another was Kun's old master, a 4000 year old jedi master. Also, I think its impressive that it took 12 jedi combined, 2 of which were masters, to defeat Kun's ionized air particles.

Kun was also able to dominate jedi master Luke, not at his prime sure, but still powerful. I doubt that Revan could have done that.

Nope, Exar wins.

Although I think that Revan would win, I must say that was at an extreme disadvantage when he was fought and defeated at Luke's Academy. I came up with a theory on one of these threads(might have been this one) that the power of a force ghost degrades over time. The reason for this was because after a time Obi-won was no loger able to talk to Luke as a ghost. This only took about 5 years. In the ROTS novel it says that Obi-won is one of the strongest Jedi alive at the time. This meens that Exar Kun has to have been extreemly powerful to talk, much less fight, fourteen Jedi at the same time.

Maybe light side ghosts get weaker, but Exar Kun somehow killed Gantoris as a spirit 4,000 years later. He also was able to Force Choke some of them, though they were then able to resist it.

To Revan Darkstar: true that its better to learn from a teacher, but Freedon didn't teach Exar Kun much of anything. He saved Kun's life twice by making him use the dark side and then Kun destroyed Freedon's spirit. Not much teachings and Revan was an exceptional learner with far more knowledge to learn from. a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge and 4 tombs on Korriban. And what do you mean Kun dominated Luke? When? All they did was talk unless you're counting the part where he AND Kyp tore Luke's spirit from his body.

Nope, Darth Revan wins.

I guess you have a point, both Exar and Kyp did combine to take on Luke, but Kyp didn't really do a lot, Exar was the one who provided the power, knowledge and guided the power. He was also the one to get the sun crusher from the heart of the sun, also impressive, but that is something Revan could have done too I guess.

About the force ghosts, I think the point that was trying to be made was, that if they get weaker over time, which I think is true, explains the Obi-Wan thing, also explains why Ajunta Pall has no memory and isn't that strong. But if they get weaker over time, then Exar must have been VERY powerful to still be able to rip Luke soul from his body, guide the sun crusher, choke people etc.

Well, actually it was more of Kyp's power and Exar Kun helping, to get the sun crusher out of Yavin's core. I still don't think the Force ghosts get weaker, if they did, and after 4,000 years Exar's spirit was that strong? Back when he wasn't a spirit, Exar would have been able to blink and kill every living being within a 10 mile radius, including Revan. Maybe some Force ghosts get weaker, or maybe it was because Exar drained the Massassi life force into himself that preserved his power. it's hard to tell.

After seeing all this back and forth, I want to read more about Exar Kun and decide for myself.

But to be honest, until Revan dies, his full potential remains undecided. Exar Kun's fate has already been made known to us. Based on speculation, I would argue that Revan could win. And also, most importantly, he could know a great deal about Exar's methods as he was quite fond of history, too.

Does anyone here think that Kyp Durron could ever even dream of standing up to someone like Exar Kun, Maga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, or Darth Bane in a fight? No.... Well that is exactly right. Yet he was still a Dark Lord of the Sith. And correct me if I'm wrong and you have PROOF that Revan just declared that he was the next Dark Lord of the Sith because Ulic would have been Exar Kuns succesor if he hadn't been redeamed. This means that Revan pucked the title out of the air just like Kyp Durrin. That shows a mighty King.

By the way, I think Revan would win, but give Kun the respect he deserves.

Power is for those who take it, and for those who use it. Kun's respect lies with him in his grave, which he made for himself. Revan's respect thrives until he disappoints me. When he fails to utilize that power, I'll consider changing my thoughts. But to me, at least, Revan is an ideal Sith lord. Devious, brilliant, capable, and able to survive where few could. Exar Kun was many things, from unbelieveably powerful to amazingly capable in a duel. But he's dead. And dead men tell few tales.

well, think of it this way. if exar wouldnt die, the republic would collapse. and that would ruin the whole movie script. revan however, didnt have to die to preserve any story.
so its all basicly GL's fault.

Working around GL's movies with EU is a bit like digging for pennies in a mine field. Messy messy work and no real glory.

well about Exar being dead, true and I can't (and won't) argue that. But think about how he died, he was faced against 10 000 jedi, and the republic fleet. Under those circumstances, anyone would have died, including Revan. Yet, Exar was able to kill off an entire race, numbering thousands, to keep himself alive, sure he was killed 4000 years later, but it still took 14 jedi, 12 padawans, Luke and Kuns old master to kill him. Think about it, 2 lightsabers, 12 padawans/knights, 2 jedi masters (including one of the most powerful jedi eveer, Luke and the old version of Yoda, Vodo-Baas, he trained lots of jedi, for some reason I think of him like an old Yoda), to kill off Kun's 4000 year old ionized air particles! He must have been near godlike when he was alive. Revan is good too, but his strength is tactics, yes he can beat Malak, but so could have Exar, and likely Ulic, Kuns apprentice.

Also, for more proof about Exar being more powerful than Revan, when Kun walked, the ground shook underneath him from the shear power of the dark side eminating from his body. If that happened to Revan, you would find out in the first 10 seconds of KotOR that you are Revan since the whole ship would be shaking underneath you.

No, Kun would win, his forte was fighting and combat, Revans was tactics and organizing, recruiting armies. Maybe if it were both or their empire vs each other, then Revan's tactics might lead him to a (probably) stunning victory, but in 1 on 1 combat, Exar would win.

The ground shook underneath him? Like, everywhere? So much for Sith stealth.

Well, with what we have now I suppose Exar Kun could win a duel. A straight battle, sure. But that could change within time. KOTOR 3 is about a year or two away from completion, I'm guessing.

Yeah, i had no idea that the ground shook when Exar walked. The info things always tend to leave stuff like that out.

Someone mentioned George Lucas earlier, and i would just like to point out that Lucas only seems to care about the movies and probably knows less than we do on the expanded universe. he said in the ROTJ dvd that Boba Fett dies in the Sarlaac pit but we all know he didn't. That shows how much George knows. So whatever he says about the movies is probably true but anything else he probably has no idea.

Darth Glentract: Before you post again, please finish KOTOR or read through the chronicles on the KOTOR 2 official website. Self proclaimed or not, Darth Revan earned it just as much as Exar Kun and it was 40 years after anyway. The Emperor was self proclaimed but he was still the emperor. The original Dark Lords of the Sith were self proclaimed for crying out loud! The only other thing i will agree on is that Kyp was wrong about his self proclamation and no, he couldnt have taken down any of the guys you mentioned.

yeah, I agree, the ground shaking would sort of wreck the sith stealth, but I guess he was so powerful he didn't really need it.

And yes, Kyp was no sith lord, he wasn't even worth to shine Bandon's armor, let alone be a dark lord of the sith

Bandon. Ow... Speaking of pitiful Sith lords.

That reminds me. On the link I found with the Sith definition in Wilkipedia, they have a list of Sith that we've only heard bits about. Buncha losers who probably got sabered by clever or angry apprentices. I bet the real reason why Sidious had to play good guy was because his life insurance would have jumped up had anyone known he was a Sith.

you're probably right, it might go like this

Employment: "I'm a sith lord"

Holy ****, your monthly payments are now 100 000 000 dollars please, thank you come again.

Sidious: NOOOOOOOOO!

Personally I think each of these characters receive far too much hype for my tastes, BUT, I will go with Revan. He's incredible, a strategist, a duelist, and silver tongued bastard

Although the arguments for both side are great, i'll have to go with Revan on this one..

Why? Because quite frankly i find what he has done more impressive.

Revan never faced 10.000 Jedi sure, but he faced some of the most powerful Jedi and killed them all, he faced entire army's and killed them all. Not to mention that when he was on the star forge it did not give him power but it did make Malak and every Sith on it stronger. Revan being there meant a huge disadvantage for him, would he have fought on a normal ship he would have beaten them all a lot easier and faster and he still beat those 50+ Sith easily. Of course that doesn't mean that Exar couldn't have done it, but he would have had just as a hard time with it. Or easy.

No Revan never walked in to Coruscant to freeze the Senate and kill a Jedi Master, but he had no reason too. A lot of what Exar did was because he had too, what reason would Revan have had to do that? What reason would Revan have had to destroy an entire race? None at all, the entire republic was slowly dying or joining his forces, killing entire races would be a waste of time and possible troops for him.

After all if you're winning a war you don't exactly have a reason to blow up something that could help you later on. It has no real use for him to do something like that. If it would have had some use i'm sure he could have done it. Afterall Kotor II says that Nihillus could do it, he destroyed a planet using the force, and he was definitly weaker then Revan.

good point.....Revan the tactical genius had no reason to show off but anyone who came up against him was a goner for sure

frankly, you all say his tactics would lead him to a win, but how would that help in a one on one fight? Really what is he going to do.

And about him being silver tongued, again, how does that help him in a battle, unless he talks Exar to sleep, it does nothing for him.

Also, about your reasoning that Revan never did that because he didn't have to, true, but I also noticed what you said about Revan not wiping out races because it would waste troops. In that statement, you basically said Exar had more power than Revan, because Exar just used the force to kill the massassani, no troops at all.

He knew he was gonna die when it happened, if I recall. Not a favorable situation.

His tactics would help him win in a one on one fight because he learned everything he could from the Jedi and from the Sith, and he was a military genius. Now the military genius part wouldnt help him much, but he knows exactly how to kill or turn Jedi. Remember how many ways HK-47 had to kill Jedi? All of those came from Revan. He knew to corrupt their will, what weapons to use, how to kill their allies, etc. HK even knew how to kill Sion, another technique he learned from Revan.

Nextly, when Fishy said killing an entire race would be a waste of time and possible troops for him, you totally misinterpreted it. Revan can turn almost anyone to his cause, thats why the Sith greatly outnumbered the Republic in KOTOR. So instead of killing an entire species he would simply turn them to his side. Revan doesnt need to use troops to fight, he could easily do it on his own.

he s soooo powerful

Like Darth Revan33 said he didn't let the troops live because he couldn't win without them he let them live because the victory would take less work from him and would be much easier to gain.

Besides killing an entire planet isn't exactly the best to get people to join you. Some would join you out of fear, but those are weak and you wouldn't want them in yuor army anyway. But many more would join the Republic and start fighting because they think the Sith are to cruel for them. (just look at the computer in the shadowlands, when you say that the dead of those people would only make your forces fight better it agrees with you... Besides thousands of generals from history would agree with you) It would simply not be a tactical move to blow up an entire planet.

And like i said before if Nihillus can do it who is clearly weaker then Revan, Revan can sure as hell do it.

And no his military genius would not help him in a fair fight between the two, but all his tactics about fighting against and killing Jedi would. Maybe not much but they still would. Besides Exar did die, Revan didn't... He has never been defeated in a fight... Ever. Even when bastila came on his ship it was probably just tactics, the fact that Malak decided to kill him from far away becuase he was to scared to face him one on one was the only reason he was ever defeated. Exar was already losing before he was killed...

Revan never had a real challange in a fight, never fought against somebody that could match him let alone stand best him. Exar did, we have no idea on how powerful Revan trully was. Only that he was the most powerful Jedi of that time and nobody ever thought they could win from him.

From all i gather though Revan more then had the power to destroy planets with the force he could have easily beaten every Jedi at that time. He just never wanted too because there was a tactical advantage to be gained if they survived. And the fact that Revan would risk his enemy's staying alive just to have a chance of turning them pretty much means he didn't really fear them either.

actually at the height of his power, nobody could challenge Exar either, he only lost to Vodo when he was an apprentice. And if Revan and Kreia duelled when he was still an apprentice, he would have lost to.

And yes, Revan did know how to kill jedi, possibly better than Exar did, but Exar did invent his own style of lightsaber combat, the double blade, also, his double blade was different than any other double blade. He was able to move it faster and aim more than with the double blade that was used during Revan's time. So Revan would have no experience fighting Exar's style, he would still be able to use the style he knows, but it would throw him off guard and he wouldn't be as prepared.

Also, Exar wore armor with a cortosis weave in it, that would allow him to be able to outlast Revan. And it would be a long duel, so Exar's added defense and new style, would carry him over to a win.

Oh, and about Revan being able to turn jedi, please stop saying that, yes he can do it, probably better than any before or any since, but that wouldn't help him against Exar. Exar was already a sith lord and dark.

Exar's armor would definately help him, as Revan's robes weren't really defensive based. But as for Revan being ignorant or otherwise incapable of dealing with Exar's fighting style, that's ridiculous. It was only forty years after Exar's death, and Revan's lust for knowledge would have him on the cutting edge of combat lore of the era.

true, but Exar invented his own fighting style, which was never written down and was never taught to anyone, even when he was still living. The jedi/sith at the time did have the double blade lightsaber, yes, but it had a longer handle than Exar's did, allowing them to put more power behind their attacks. Exar's handle was short, more like a single blade, except it could have a blade coming out of both ends. It allowed him to strike EXREMELY quickly and accuratly. Since Revan never faced that in combat, and would only possibly have heard about it, since none ever lived in a duel with Exar, knowledge about his fighting style would be forgotten. So actually I find it quite concivable that Revan would have little or no knowledge about Exar's fighting style.

Well, Exar wouldnt have any knowledge of Revan's fighting style either. He can use single, two, or double bladed. And Exar Kun fought against Jedi that had never seen a double bladed lightsaber before. That's part of the reason he was so deadly, no one expected that other side to be ignited. Revan fought against hundreds with a double bladed one, and (mine) uses a double bladed with mantle of the Force. So they would pretty much cancel each other out. And I truly doubt that of the "thousands you said went to fight him" none would remember his style or record it for 40 years time. Besides, I've never seen anyone hold their lightsaber like Revan did on his ship. Maybe he had his own unique style to strike extremely quickly and accurately.

And his armor giving him an advantage? yeah right. We see something that was probably like what Exar had. No proof, your right, but Revan can wear many many types of armor with a cortosis weave as well. The Star Forge, one of the strongest dark side emanations, created robes that the Jedi council feared, precisely for Revan. Those robes are far superior to any cortosis laced armor that he could otherwise wear. And he has many dozens to choose from.

So Exar's style might give him a SLIGHT advantage, but I think Revan's robes would make up the difference.

I've noticed a few things about Revan's stance and movements that have given me some insight into his fighting style, or at least, the one he was using...

It is not aggressive, or else Revan would not have stood patiently waiting for three Jedi to encircle him and attack. Obviously he was of the "bait and take" persuasion. By that I mean he was more of the counterattack mindset, and often let his opponents take the offensive, capitalizing on any openings they presented.

It was fluid. Obviously the style depended on flowing and connected movements. It would probably be more like a dance anyways. And considering he defeated the leader of the Echani (What is his name anyways...) in melee combat, I'm assuming he was a very dextrous and agile fellow. Also, the illusion of Revan that the Exile sees (which is obviously drawn from his own memories) uses two blades with deadly accuracy. Though that spectre still fights like everyone else (Because of game mechanics) the idea is there that Revan could and perhaps often did use dual lightsabers. And they were of equal length, too. The idea that Revan wasn't using but one lightsaber in KOTOR I was perhaps one of two things: not being presumptuous with a character people would customize as they saw fit; and also the man was obviously confident that one saber could do all the work he wanted.

I'm curious which battles Revan may have actively fought in. I'd like to see perhaps flashbacks in KOTOR III showing Malak, the Exile, and Revan fighting in the Mandalorian Wars.

yes, that would be very interesting. Strangely, the Revan illusion has powerful attacks but little vitality. Anyway, you said there was proof that Revan turned to the light side. can you hook me up with a link?

There's a thread I started in EU... Wilki and the Sith... In that link there is a bio for Revan. Check it out.

Revan owns Exar Pun

Originally posted by Naga Sadow
well, think of it this way. if exar wouldnt die, the republic would collapse. and that would ruin the whole movie script. revan however, didnt have to die to preserve any story.
so its all basicly GL's fault.

On that point, i THINK and remember THINK if i'm wrong please don't rip into me for this, that the republic may have collapsed at one point, around about a 1000 years before Episode 1, as in episode 2, Palpatine says "I won't let this republic which has stood for a thousand years fall". SO Technically if i'm right the republic could've fallen cause it got itself back together.

Jedi_KnightAlly, palpatine says this republic that has stood for millenia, that the plural of a milleniuum

oh, sorry about the mistake, just thought i'd try to bring something to the discussion lol.

actually, Darth Glentract is wrong. Palpatine did say for A millenia. why he didn't say millenium I have no idea. Anyway he is referring to the last time the Sith were seen and when Bane decided that the Sith should remain in the shadows.

Check with lucasfilm.com or lucasarts.com.... See if there' smore there. It has to be somewhere what version is considered canon.

couldnt find anything at lucasfilm.com and the official KOTOR 2 website is part of lucasarts.com.

kun ivented sith and the double egde saber he would win

Woah there, dont blow me away with your awesome facts of Kun. He invented a species huh? Ok whatever... and inventing weapons doesn't make you at all powerful. Did you even bother to read the other posts? I didn't think so. They already said that a few times. But hey, you do sound really smart with your mispellings, lack of punctuation, lack of ideas, and lack of capitalization, so what do I know?

lmao... Be nice to visitors. We can't all be well-typed geniuses.

I looked too. Couldn't find anything. How like large corporations to not address small things like that.

Lol. Yeah, sorry kid-adi-mundi. I just get really irritated when people don't read the other posts and put down useless reasons.

Anyway you're right Janus. Stupid big time corporations...

It'd be like Donald Trump's illegitimate child comes forth, and he just kinda... ignores it for a couple of years. "Wudn't me"

lol

Here ya go.

lmao

just out of curiosity, what revan head did you guys pick? mine is my avatar.

The one featured. It's the one most commonly used in all pictures I've seen of the game. It's also the only head not in the sequel.

yeah. Different question: when you used that head as revan, what heads were on the Jedi in the Star Forge, the ones who died against the three sith and then the ones in the tanks? With my Revan's head it has always been your Revan's head.

I hope everyone here has played KOTOR or this might seem a little strange...

Yeah, it was mine too. Kinda pissed me off. Clone wars apparently started 40 years after Exar Kun. And they all sucked.

I had the bald one with the goatee

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Yeah, it was mine too. Kinda pissed me off. Clone wars apparently started 40 years after Exar Kun. And they all sucked.

Huh? I understood only the first two sentences.

The one I picked is the only one I could imagine Revan looking like. A goatee seems to diabolical and Gen X to be on the face of a master tactician.

what did you mean though?

he was joking that the clone wars started 40 years after exar kun, instead of 4000. Because it looked like he had lots of clones running around after him lol. Hope that clarifies a little lol.

Very. Thanks for filling in while I was gone... Silly Revan clones. Watch that be like the Hk 50s of KOTOR III...

lol, one Revan was enough to ressurect the Sith, cripple the Republic, conquer the galaxy, and wipe out nearly all of the Jedi Knights. Just think what 5 could do...

Oddly enough, I think Revan would be the kind to work in coordination with his fellow clones, assuming they all were completely identical. Revan's a visionary and a tactician, not a petty self-promoting punk.

I agree. More Revans would only make him more deadly...

wow this thread has not been in the main page for ages, I'm bringing it back, want to see what the new guys think. Did you know that this thread was around in the first two pages, wow.

Anyway, I agree with you Emperor Revan, more Revan's would cooperate, and man they would waste the galaxy (5 Revans, start running galaxy)

oh, one thing I ask to new people who want to post here, please read over every other page here, most facts have already been said and I don't want this thread to be ruined, please think over your answers and put some reasons for it. Thanks, it is greatly appreciated

Originally posted by Julie
What if Revan when lightside ...or was a chick?

good questions julie. i forget where but i read that according to lucas, revan went lightside. though gender was never addressed.

imo exar kun would win, for the same reasons revan darkstar mentioned on first post. couldn't have said it better really.

thanks for the compliment, and you are right, does anyone know if Revan is male or female?
Personally I think male, but if it was female that would affect the fight, possibly reducing stamina, on the flip side however, if Revan was a girl she would be more agile.

However, in this fight stamina would be important, but again, does anyone know what Revan really was?

It is really up to the player's opinion. They never really establish in the games... they kinda let you choose.

I believe Exar Kun would win

why?

probably for the reasons I posted on the other pages, but I am not sure

No, Crazo posts random useless things thinking that Vader would defeat God, etc. etc.

This was a really good debate, it's nice to see it back, but no offense to the newcomers but I haven't seen any that can really carry an argument. The main ones I can think of are myself, Darth Janus, Fishy, Revan Darkstar, Human Vader, and Darth Glentract and we've all posted here.

Where IS Janus? Has anyone else noticed his absence?

Yes, probably avoiding all the newbs. We've had like 20 in 3 days or something. Not to mention Crazo's random useless post streak. He probably made his own site where only certain intelligent individuals can join. Or somesuch.

Yah. I've been wondering to Dipsit

Janus is out of state or something doing something with dogs...

Anyways he's doing something insane and freaky just like him but thats not the point of this thread now is it?

Anyways I still think Revan will win this... Or at least could win this, i'm not entirely sure but I just have this feeling

He would

yeah, I have been wondering where Janus went as well.

About the site where only people with a certain IQ are allowed in, not a bad idea, somebody should do that and then have it an invitation only site. Hmm... Oh well, I can't make websites so it will have to be somebody else.

About Revan winning, why? What would allow him to overcome Exar?

Why? Well you've read the thread, we were both debating in it...

Thats why... I think they are both very powerful and both evenly matched really. However I think Revan has a few advantages and Exar loses a few because Revan is familiar with some of his (double bladed lightsaber for instance).

And well although we have never seen the full power of Revan, or at least not for as far as we know he's impressive even as he is. I just think that somebody like that could beat Exar Kun. I don't really know why, I don't have any new points to offer here. This thread deals with them all, both why he would lose and why he would win.

And I don't know why but I just think Revan would win, I feel like a noob idiot for saying this, but its just what I think... Sorry I can't give any better reasons then what has already been posted but well I just can't

yeah, you have a point, with the way the thread is now, nobody is likely to change their mind, everything has already been said.

But since I'm not sure if if I already said this: yes Revan was an amazing fighter, but he was more of a tactician, that would not help as much in a one on one fight. Exar on the other hand fought constantly, honing his skills.

On a side note, what do you guys think of the idea to create an invitation only site?

it'd be close but revan would win

Originally posted by Revan Darkstar
yeah, you have a point, with the way the thread is now, nobody is likely to change their mind, everything has already been said.

But since I'm not sure if if I already said this: yes Revan was an amazing fighter, but he was more of a tactician, that would not help as much in a one on one fight. Exar on the other hand fought constantly, honing his skills.

On a side note, what do you guys think of the idea to create an invitation only site?

Revan was just as much of a fighter as he was a tactician. He defeated every opponent he ever faced including many mandalorians, many Jedi, Mandalore, the strongest Echani warrior, hundreds of dark Jedi, dozens of Assassin droids, arguably the best bounty hunter of that time period, 3 tarentateks (when only one could easily defeat a regular Jedi) and two Sith lords (three if you count Bastila) and of course Juhani and Jolee at the same time with or without Bastila's help.

On your side note, I like the idea but I unfortunately can't create a website.

Revan.
About that letting Bastila get to the bridge of his flagship, do you think Revan knew that Malak was going to fire on him? Do you think Revan knew he would get more powerful if he allowed himself to fall for awhile? Did Revan even allow Malak to sense his full power when he was his apprentice? If all these are true, then Revan is smarter than I originally thought, and I thought he was brilliant even before I thought of this! Like some ppl said, we have to wait until Kotor III comes out, to see Revan full power.

Exar would woop revan's butt. and as much as i love the dark lord, he would die in less than a minute.

look at it this way:
even with half the jedi order against him, exar was still able to preserve his life form and use new jedi to do his evil work. it litterally took 5,00 years for him to be deafeted.

This is exactly why someone should create an invitations only site like we've been discussing, DarthMandalore is another one of those 1 sentence posters with either no reasons or wrong ones.

Firstly, Exar preserving his spirit wasn't that impressive since that's why those temples and Massassi race were there anyway. Secondly it wasn't 500 years, I will assume you simply had a typo there because of your commas but in either case your still wrong. It was about 4000 years later and no one even knew he existed until Luke came about. Now Kun convinced two Jedi to his cause and one rebelled on him. Woo hoo. It took only 12 barely trained padawans with two lightsabers total to wipe him out. It didn't take 4,000 years for him to be defeated, it took a few weeks.

Ah but come on a four thousand year old spirit, I think Revan will win but thats not a good comparison, Ragnos lost easily in JA and he should have wiped the floor with everybody there

Yeah - the determining factor with the spirit seems to be this:

They are in someone else's body. That body is only able to hold so much energy. Marka Ragnos was probably WAY more powerful when in his own immensely more potent figure because it didn't restrict him - he is probably only able to use so much power without destroying the host body. This seems fairly patent.

Although this might seem irrelevant, it seems like J.R. Tolkien and GL designed the idea of a powerful person using someone else's body as a parasite in similar ways. Voldemort, in the Harry Potter series, uses Quirrell to survive by taking part of his body. However, he is much weaker because he doesn't have complete control over Quirrell and Quirrell's body can't take his full power. He also mentions using snakes as host bodies, but they are much too weak to hold him for long. It seems similar wit h SW, as Kun and Ragnos are probably much weaker when inside another, less able, body.

For example, when Freedon Nadd beat Naga Sadow - that, I think, could never have happened if Nadd was fighting the actual Sadow.

These types of reasons are why postmortem foes in SW fights cannot be used when comparing the actual people in their prime.

I'm not trying to compare spirits, I was just responding to Darth Mandalore's quick not thought out statement. But I agree with Darth Dipsit about the spirit thing.

Thanks, man. I wasn't criticizing your point of view, though - I just thought I'd give my opinion on the relevance of postmortem character battles.

and it was a good oppinion.

Thanks, homey.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Back when he wasn't a spirit, Exar would have been able to blink and kill every living being within a 10 mile radius, including Revan.


Well, you basically said Exar would win in a fight to the death in this sentence right here.

This old thread?

"Doc, are you saying this thread is from 1985?"
Wish I had the picture to compliment that, but I am without my pics as I am at work.

I've changed my mind, having done that research on Exar Kun and reevaluating Revan. Also, my earlier source of Wikipedia was dubious at best then, and is worse now with all the revisions. Soooo...

Until KOTOR III tells me (Assuming it does) just how powerful Revan can be, I will assume Exar Kun was moreso, especially for these three reasons:

- He froze the entire Senate and murdered his former master in a short time. That whole scene where he barges into Coruscant to rescue his apprentice is simply nuts. Kun's power is immense.

- Revan has yet to make stars go boom.

- Exar Kun was declared by Ragnos to be the Dark lord in the Golden Era. I noted with a smirk that a few months ago I thought Ragnos was just some spook with no grip on reality, but reevaluating everything now, I think he was quite right. Exar Kun is, for sheer power and Force talent, superior to Revan, even if marginally. And again, right now we can't prove or disprove that.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
This old thread?

"Doc, are you saying this thread is from 1985?"
Wish I had the picture to compliment that, but I am without my pics as I am at work.

I've changed my mind, having done that research on Exar Kun and reevaluating Revan. Also, my earlier source of Wikipedia was dubious at best then, and is worse now with all the revisions. Soooo...

Until KOTOR III tells me (Assuming it does) just how powerful Revan can be, I will assume Exar Kun was moreso, especially for these three reasons:

- He froze the entire Senate and murdered his former master in a short time. That whole scene where he barges into Coruscant to rescue his apprentice is simply nuts. Kun's power is immense.

- Revan has yet to make stars go boom.

- Exar Kun was declared by Ragnos to be the Dark lord in the Golden Era. I noted with a smirk that a few months ago I thought Ragnos was just some spook with no grip on reality, but reevaluating everything now, I think he was quite right. Exar Kun is, for sheer power and Force talent, superior to Revan, even if marginally. And again, right now we can't prove or disprove that.

Agreed, Revan was mainly tactics,which won't help him in a one on one fight with Kun, who has raw power on his side. After the Ancient Sith the strongest human Sith is probably Exar.

I'm not saying Revan wouldn't put up a fight that would make Ulic seem ordinary... Remember Revan has advanced battle precognition. So while the odds are slightly in Exar Kun's favor, it could go either way. And I am saying this simply because Exar Kun's amazing Force abilities are what boost him up, not his reputed saber skills. I mean, Tulak Hord is considered to be better than Kun by Kreia, who was probably in the academy when Kun was a Sith lord.

I look at it like this. If they went to war with massive fleets. Revan would outsmart Kun's battle plans, but if you put them one on one Kun would win because of his sheer force powers. It would be close either way.

Fair enough.

I don't know...

I think Kun is more powerful in the force, he's amazing but he isn't that superior to Revan and I think that Revan would be slightly better in a lightsaber fight because of several reasons i'm to lazy to state right now.

At this time I think it would depend on a lot of factors not just their own power.

It's rough, Fishy. KOTOR doesn't give us a clear view of Revan's powers directly, just his accomplishments. I will write Obsidian demanding numerous FMVs in KOTOR III showing Malak, Revan, and everyone just to dispel doubt.

His accomplishments speak for themself however. To say somebody defeated even legendaric duellist means he is a great fighter. He controlled a star learned incredibly fast and all that crap. yeah sure the game has a certain lack of info because its a game but still it teaches you a lot. Not enough but a lot, and you can draw conclusions from that.

I just think that Revan is a better fighter based on what I know of them both, I also think Kun is more powerful slightly and in the end that the fight would be decided by a stupid thing like a banana

Darth Banana, Conquerer of Ancient Sith!!!

Don't tell anyone I used bananas. Especially Dan.

Seeing as he's hardly around anymore, its not going to be hard to not tell him.

He finally get that job as a male dancer at McDonald's?

Originally posted by Nihilus
Well, you basically said Exar would win in a fight to the death in this sentence right here.

No, you're a newb that doesn't realize he has to READ THE ENTIRE POST. Lord Darkstar had been saying that Kun's power as a spirit gradually weakened over the four thousand years and I said IF THAT WERE TRUE, then my quote.

I am undecided on this. I mean Kun is awsome and in terms of sheer power in the Force I think he might barely be stronger then Revan, but when it comes to cunning Revan seems to be far more patent than Kun who always reminded me of a hothead. Now lets say Revan knew that Kun was stronger than him in the Force (which is likley), I think, Revan would find a way to overcome this since Revan never striked me as the cocky type. Knowing that Kun is stronger than him in the Force Revan would take than into consideration and perhaps devise a way to counter it. Of course this is only speculation. Overall I am leaning towards, Revan but it could go ether way.