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Which team would win?
Sith Lords:
Darth Sidious
Count Dooku
Darth Maul

Jedi Masters:
Yoda
Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobie (ROTS)

The Jedi easily.

Yoda takes Dooku, Mace takes Sidious, and ROTS Obi takes Maul. No casualties.

well i dont agree with no casualties, but the jedi did manage to defeat the sith pretty quickly when the sith first became

obi won would die to darth maul but maul would get hammered by yoda and dooku would be also while mace takes sidiouse

um why would obi die he already killed maul when he was a padawan(even though he was ready for the knight trials) and now he's a master obi takes maul IMO

wow darthmaul9123 your not being like a n00b im proud of you well done little advice dont make two post you could proably fit it all in one any way i think the jedi will win with the death of obi wan

Setting: (Forgot this) The CIS meeting room where Anakin killed them on Mustafar.

Indeed they do, and Kenobi would NOT die...

The room is bigger then you think. Obi-Wan and Anakin battled in their a bit and Anakin had to do 2 force jumps to get across.

Originally posted by ESB-1138
The room is bigger then you think. Obi-Wan and Anakin battled in their a bit and Anakin had to do 2 force jumps to get across.

And each of those jumps went about 5 feet.

Sidious I'm pretty sure would get defeated by Yoda.
Obi-Wan would defeat Maul.
Dooku and Mace...


Dooku could defeat Mace but it all comes down to who is the first to fall. If Yoda or Obi-Wan defeats Sidious/Maul then Dooku is out of luck. But if he can defeat Mace before Yoda/Obi-Wan defeats Sidious/Maul then he could assist and defeat Yoda.
But deciding on everyone's skill levels as shown in movies, books, and games I would have to say that Yoda would be able to defeat Sidious first unless Sidious tries to keep a distance. Obi-Wan will wait for Maul to make a mistake so their match depends.
But Dooku wouldn't be able to defeat Mace in time to stop Yoda from defeating Sidious so it would be Dooku vs. Mace & Yoda so Dooku would get defeated. If Obi-Wan hasn't already defeated Maul it would be Maul vs. Obi-Wan, Mace, & Yoda. So Jedi wins.

in rots remember yoda was having quit a bit of trouble with sidious so i dont get were ur getting mace being able to take sidious if yoda cant

this is a pretty good thread

oh and by that coment no one take it into offense if i come off rude sry


sniper

Mine was
Yoda vs. Sidious= Since Sidious can't use the field to his edge (Unless he uses the tables) Yoda has a very good chance of defeating Sidious then he did in ROTS.
Dooku vs. Mace= If were the two alone I would say Dooku would win but seeing as Mace seems to be better then Sidious, Dooku wouldn't defeat him in time to help Sidious.

But if it was
Yoda vs. Dooku= As we saw in ATOC Dooku and Yoda are basically equal in lightsaber combat but Dooku could last longer then Yoda since Yoda was gasping for air and Dooku wasn't.
Sidious vs. Obi-Wan= Sidious
Maul vs. Mace= Mace.

Dooku & Sidious vs. Mace= Sith

sidious vs. yoda- sidious
Dooku vs. mace- this is a tough one but I think dooku would win in the end.
Maul vs. Obi- a great battle but obi wins.

Sidious and Dooku vs. Obi.

Sith win

If you have: Mace vs Sidious, Yoda vs Dooku, Obi-Wan vs Maul
Now really...Mace took Sidious in 30 seconds of a fair fight.
So Mace vs Sidious > Mace (first finished)
Then you have 3 Jedi vs 2 Sith > Jedi win.

If you put it in that way:
Yoda vs Sidious; Mace vs Dooku; Obi-Wan vs Maul:
Mace vs Dooku would be the longest fight and Obi-Wan + Yoda would both win their matches. Again: Jedi win

If you make it:
Yoda vs Maul; Mace vs Sidious, Obi-Wan vs Maul
> Jedi win

If you make it:
Yoda vs Sidious; Mace vs Maul, Obi-Wan vs Sidious
> Jedi win because Maul gets owned first.

See...it doesn't matter how you put them it will always result in Jedi winning this without casualties.

but they seem to win in my little organization now dont they.

If you have Dooku vs. Obi-Wa, Obi would be defeated in 10 seconds making Yoda/Mace have 2 Sith Lords to deal with.

Originally posted by Bobafetty
but they seem to win in my little organization now dont they.

Because you think that Sidious can take Yoda in a straight fight and this is never going to happen.

Originally posted by ESB-1138
If you have Dooku vs. Obi-Wa, Obi would be defeated in 10 seconds making Yoda/Mace have 2 Sith Lords to deal with.

a)
I think (ROTS) Obi-Wan on his own can fight Dooku longer than 10 seconds.

b)
What do you think how long Maul/Sidious can last again Mace/Yoda ? See...whoever fights against Mace will lose in less than 30 seconds because:
- Sidious already did lose to Mace in less than 30 seconds
- Sidious is clearly > Maul

Nai, you used Maul twice in the second or third engagement, but whatever, same result.

Bobafetty, you had Yoda lose to Sidious in a fair fight; not going to happen.

ESB, Dooku wouldn't take Obi-Wan before Mace or Yoda took Maul. No way.

Nice new sig, Faunus.
Those Jawas look familiar.

Jedi win. Each one of those Sith Lords has been defeated by a person on the Jedi team. The only person on the Sith team to beat a Jedi would be Dooku over Obi. Even if Dooku beat Obi, Maul would die even faster, so it would be 2 on 2. And the other Sidious and Dooku are toast against Mace and Yoda, and that's the worst case scenario, so I fail to see how the Lords could win. Jedi got this.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Nice new sig, Faunus.
Those Jawas look familiar.

Janus made it. . . And these Jawas? Pshhhh. My Jawas pwn yours through Trakata.

Crap, those -are- the same jawas... I thought I was using the other pair.

oh well, I guess those are just really famous Jawas.

I should make a sig with jawas and Artoo

I have a pic... here...

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Janus made it. . . And these Jawas? Pshhhh. My Jawas pwn yours through Trakata.

Hmm...no...really. See: I'm the master of Sithery so my Jawas will pwn your Jawas because being ruthless badass Sith apprentices with lightsabers !!!!

Damn tiny peektures.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Because you think that Sidious can take Yoda in a straight fight and this is never going to happen.

Sidious is stronger than Yoda according to starwars.com on Yoda's databank profile.

Originally posted by DarthGenises
Sidious is stronger than Yoda according to starwars.com on Yoda's databank profile.

Specifically, it says "Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat".

Problems with that?

Starwars.com also says that Mace Windu beat Sidious fair and square.

So Mace must be better than Yoda? Or could it be some site author was taking liberties when he claimed Sidious was "too powerful", even though the guy barely won at all.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Specifically, it says "Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat".

Problems with that?

Starwars.com also says that Mace Windu beat Sidious fair and square.

So Mace must be better than Yoda? Or could it be some site author was taking liberties when he claimed Sidious was "too powerful", even though the guy barely won at all.

You are using logic that you insult all the F***ING time! And Mace won that fight because it was a lightsabre duel and not a Force fight. Or he threw the fight which I believe.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Hmm...no...really. See: I'm the master of Sithery so my Jawas will pwn your Jawas because being ruthless badass Sith apprentices with lightsabers !!!!

Oh? My Jawas are Sith MASTERS so your Lil' Bobbies and their ilk can go be farmboys and steal some loot!!!

And my dudes have lightsabers; they just don't need to use them. . .

Can't touch that!

Originally posted by DarthGenises
You are using logic that you insult all the F***ING time! And Mace won that fight because it was a lightsabre duel and not a Force fight. Or he threw the fight which I believe.

No, I'm pointing out two pieces of evidence here... Obviously if Sidious was "too powerful" for Yoda, but Mace can put him on his ass (And there is NO backing of "sidious threw the fight" on Starwars.com) in under a minute than you must accept that mace is that much better in this case. Both Yoda and Mace used offensive styles, yet Yoda was unable to overcome Sidious while MAce could. So without flirting with the possibility that Yoda fought sidious at a severe disadvantage and the victory in the sith's favor had NOTHING to do with being "too powerful", we are forced to conclude that Mace is better than Sidious, who is better than Yoda.

See the problem with citing a synapsis from a website carelessly?

Actually the answer of Mace vs Palpatine lies on page 205 of "The Making of Revenge of The Sith".

Wow, someone's grown bollocks since the last time we talked..

Please, provide us with a quote, o' wise one.

Unfortunatley I don't own the book a friend does and hes on vacation. Hopefully someone else on this site owns the book.

Well, what does it say from what you recall?

I think something along the lines of Mace was supposed to lose but Sameul L. Jackson refused. So I believe he had Ian McDiarmid overact to show he threw the fight. Of course I might be wrong.

Well, I did hear from SLJ's own mouth that he asked to go out like a pimp, but that still doesn't change a thing.

Point was, Mace pwned Sidious. Yoda about pwned Sidious.

Sidious is not god.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Nai, you used Maul twice in the second or third engagement, but whatever, same result.

Bobafetty, you had Yoda lose to Sidious in a fair fight; not going to happen.

ESB, Dooku wouldn't take Obi-Wan before Mace or Yoda took Maul. No way.
Ok so when Dooku clearly defeated Obi-Wan in a few seconds while also fighting Anakin and not even focusing. So Dooku giving Obi 100% wouldn't be able to defeat Obi in 10 seconds.

Originally posted by DarthGenises
Sidious is stronger than Yoda according to starwars.com on Yoda's databank profile.

WTF ? Last time you told it was on Sidious / Palpatines profile - and it wasn't there. Now you tell me it's on Yoda's databank profile and quess what I found:

"The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure."

Let's see...Mace Windu confronted Sidious directly and won.
Now Yoda who is better than Mace in lightsaber duels as well as in force use it too weak to do that ? LMAO.

Sorry to tell you, Genises but this is simply BS. That entire paragraph is based on the ROTS novel which contradicts the movie in dozens of occasions (e.g. Obi-Wan vs Grievous) and therefore I'm not taking that serious even though (fact from the movie) that:

a) Sidious feared direct confrontation with Yoda
b) Because of that ran away
c) Only was lucky to defeat Yoda not "too powerful"

And even in the novel it says that Yoda only "can't win" and that is in a situation where he knew that clone troopers were on their way to help Sidious while in the film he lost his lightsaber and troops are coming. Thereby saying Sidious was "too powerful" is complete nonsens.

True. If Yoda and Mace were replaced in the movies I'm sure Mace would have got defeated by Sidious in the Senate Room and Yoda would have won.

Yeah I agree with ESB-1138.

But since this is in the Mustafar meeting room and not the Chancellor's office would Sidious get defeated by Mace as fast as he did? Look at ROTS. Mace kicks Sidious's lightsaber out of his hand and it falls out of the shaddered window. Now as Dooku defeated Obi-Wan twice and was clearly toying with him.
Mace vs. Sidious= Still going on
Dooku vs. Obi-Wan= Dooku
Yoda vs. Maul= Still going on
Maul has the best attack and defense out of the 6. So he would last longer then Obi-Wan did against Dooku since Yoda doesn't use the force to defeat his opponents.
Mace vs. Sidious & Dooku= Sith
Yoda vs. Maul= (By this time) Yoda
Now we all saw that Dooku is clearly equal (If not better) then Yoda in terms of lightsaber duels.

Yoda vs. Dooku & Sidious= Sith wins at the loss of Maul.

That's just one example.

I bet that Yoda could take out Maul prettu fast, Padawan Obi-Wan cut Mauls lightsaber in two, Yoda would cut Maul in two. And I bet both Mace Windu and Dooku has better attack and defence than Maul.

Originally posted by ESB-1138
Which team would win?
Sith Lords:
Darth Sidious
Count Dooku
Darth Maul

Jedi Masters:
Yoda
Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobie (ROTS)

Sidious and Mace would fight for a small amount of time until Sidious his arrogance would once again be his dead, Mace would win and this time he would kill Sidious.

Dooku would easily dispatch of Obi Wan in just seconds

Yoda would kill Maul in just seconds, really to say Maul would an effort is underrating Yoda by a huge amount, the sheer power of the force would make him win and fast, that push that he did against Sidous would effectively destroy Maul. Once Yoda gets into the fight and he will do it fast considering the other fights he will kill Maul.

Dooku would want to kill Obi Wan but it will take some time he will knock him out fast and then move in for the kill, Yoda would stop that before Dooku has the chance and he will take out Dooku, it will take time but he will do it.

Before he takes out Dooku Mace will have killed Sidious and the Jedi will win the fight.

That's another example
Dooku vs. Mace
Sidious vs. Obi-Wan
Yoda vs. Maul

Dooku can defeat Mace, Sidious can defeat Obi-Wan, and Yoda can defeat Maul.
Sith 2
Jedi 1
Dooku and Sidious can defeat Yoda.

And Obi-Wan was using Yoda's form but Yoda does a lot more jumping around so Obi-Wan not jumping around gave him a better chance of cutting Maul's lightsaber in 2.

Originally posted by ESB-1138
Maul has the best attack and defense out of the 6. So he would last longer then Obi-Wan did against Dooku since Yoda doesn't use the force to defeat his opponents.
Mace vs. Sidious & Dooku= Sith
Yoda vs. Maul= (By this time) Yoda
Now we all saw that Dooku is clearly equal (If not better) then Yoda in terms of lightsaber duels.


Dude...once for all...

Overall lightsaber combat:
Yoda > Dooku / Mace > Sidious > Obi-Wan / Anakin > > > > Maul

Offence:
Yoda > Dooku / Mace > Sidious > Anakin > Maul > Obi-Wan

Defence:
Yoda (can avoid everything) > Obi-Wan > rest

Maul is the weakest duellist in that entire fight and no way he would last longer than Obi-Wan. Maybe equal amount of time and you end with Sidious + Dooku VS Yoda and Mace = Jedi win again.

Dude. Dooku is better or equal in lightsaber combat to Yoda. And Yoda's form 4 focuses on attack and little on defense.

Dooku's form is not good for defence either. And do you really expect to be able to convince anyone that Yoda only knows one form after hundreds of years of training. I bet he also knows Juyo and Soresu.

You guys compare people as if they have definite advantages. Each lightsaber duelist has different advantages over different people. When comparing duelists, you cannot logically say A > B and B > C, therefore A > C. This is why Obi-Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan and so-on. It's a simply like rock, paper, scissors. One can beat two, but can't beat three. There are some who are great, like Mace, who dominates almost everyone, but no matter what, you can't assume he's invincible because he beat Sidious, who is (according to GL) the strongest of his time.

Example of this logic's flaw:

Obi-Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan ...

Mace > Sidious > Yoda > Windu ...

You are partly correct. Obi-wan is > than Anakin, but Anakin is not better than Dooku. Dooku was supposed to lose to him. No one should still need to hear this. Dooku losing was part of Sidious' plan. Anakin wasn;t supposed to kill him though.

Mace is better than Sidious because he uses Vapaad, reducing Sidious' force cloud effect because half of his energy comes from the darkside. Yoda could beat Mace, but Sidious can beat some force LS force users that are stronger than Mace. The A>B=A>C is not always used and is usually thought through before bring used.

I'm not completely disagreeing, I may have missed something, but how was Anakin not supposed to kill Dooku if Palpetine ordered him to?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Dooku's form is not good for defence either. And do you really expect to be able to convince anyone that Yoda only knows one form after hundreds of years of training. I bet he also knows Juyo and Soresu.
Yoda can only use form 4. He can barely walk and form 4 uses the force to help him fight. Any other form he would get killed.

^^ Yeah. Ataru's purpose is to overcome physical disadvantages through the use of the Force.

Originally posted by Se7in
I'm not completely disagreeing, I may have missed something, but how was Anakin not supposed to kill Dooku if Palpetine ordered him to?
Here's what he was suppose to do.
Dooku kills Obi-Wan
Dooku gets defeated and captured by Anakin
General Grievous takes control of the CIS and Dooku tells the Republic that he was behind it
Grievous is killed
Sidious and Dooku form the Empire
Sidious and Dooku rule the galaxy

Why did you list, Maul as a Sith Lord?

??

Originally posted by DarthGenises
I think something along the lines of Mace was supposed to lose but Sameul L. Jackson refused. So I believe he had Ian McDiarmid overact to show he threw the fight. Of course I might be wrong.

I was in Barnes & Noble yesterday. I checked the book out to see if there was anything good in it. I went through half the book, including the ENTIRE Mace vs. Sidious scenarion. Nothing remotely along those lines. It says, and I'm quoting it:

"After being bested by Mace in combat, which was redone, Sidious took advantage of the situation, using Mace as his key to turn Anakin."

There are a few mistakes there, such as the fancy word-use, but that's nearly, word for word, what that book said.

My mistake. It was "fancy word-use, or lack of therefor. .. "

Maul didnt make it pst padawan

Janus, not necessarily.

As we all know, some forms of lightsaber dueling work better than others in specific situations. The Star Wars site does indeed say that Mace defeated Sidious - fair and square. But this does not mean that Yoda was weaker than Mace.

Sidious doesn't suck with a saber - but he isn't the Count Dooku of dueling here, either. Sidious's main strength and source of power is his unrivaled mastery of the Force (excluding Yoda, here). He only used his Force powers at the very end. Mace deflected it with his saber - but far from easily.

Anakin made his choice and disarmed - literally, lol - Windu. So Sidious then uses Force lightning again - and defeats Windu. Lightsaber wise, I would now say Mace is superior to Sidious.

But. In Force powers, I doubt it. And also - the environment has a lot. Sidious is a sort of scrapper. He uses his flips and crazy swings. I'd say his form is similar to Ataru - though Nick Gillard says Sidious has an ambigious style of dueling.

Sidious and Yoda met eachother blow-for-blow in the Senate hall when they fought with sabers. It was the Force battle that turned the tide. Sidious had the advantage in the environment. He gained the higher ground. The site states that "The Emperor was too powerful for Yoda to defeat."

It didn't say "The Emperor was more powerful". But at the time - Yoda lost. Yoda couldn't defeat the Emperor or own him. It's similar to the Anakin and Obi-Wan duel - in my eyes. It could be said that Obi-Wan was too powerful to defeat. Not that he was stronger - but at the time - Anakin couldn't have won.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
As we all know, some forms of lightsaber dueling work better than others in specific situations. The Star Wars site does indeed say that Mace defeated Sidious - fair and square. But this does not mean that Yoda was weaker than Mace.

No it does mean that Yoda can take Sidious in a "fair" fight too. And there never was a fair fight between Yoda and Sidious.



He was too powerfull in that special situation. In the movie you have Yoda disarmed and on the bottom of the Senate chamber while clone troops are coming. Sure Yoda can't defeate Sidious in that situation. In a fair fight he would screw Sidious.
And Sidious won only because of luck. Because being lucky enough to destroy Yodas lightsaber with force lightning and falling off the Senate "pod" on the right side (that side where you can grab on and stay on it).



That is right but since the fight here implies another situation than the fight between Yoda and Sidious shown in the movies - Yoda will win. Because there would be no clones coming and there is no chance for Sidious to take the "high ground" somewhere. This is a straight lightsaber duel and Yoda would kill him without a doubt.

Originally posted by ESB-1138
Dude. Dooku is better or equal in lightsaber combat to Yoda. And Yoda's form 4 focuses on attack and little on defense.

Just to tell you.

Yoda is > all when it comes to lightsaber combat. And his form focuses on attack, yes. But Yoda can avoid to get hit by 3 Jedi Masters trying to hit him with a lightsaber at once - while being unarmed. So...he can simply dodge lightsaber strikes without the need to deflect them and this is clearly the best defence one can have.

These've been answered four times around. . .

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Just to tell you.

Yoda is > all when it comes to lightsaber combat. And his form focuses on attack, yes. But Yoda can avoid to get hit by 3 Jedi Masters trying to hit him with a lightsaber at once - while being unarmed. So...he can simply dodge lightsaber strikes without the need to deflect them and this is clearly the best defence one can have.
Watch ATOC again. Dooku was doing better then Yoda was. Dooku was on the assault more and Dooku already defeated 2 other Jedis.

If Dooku was winning then why did he distract Yoda to run away?

Hmm...Yoda was beating Sidious but he ran why? Clone Troopers were coming and he had the plans to the DeathStar.

He didn't know the clone troopers were coming.

Dooku has something called the Force. And as soon as he took off the Clones arrived.

You seem to be the only one on this board except maybe Count Dooku who thinks he was winning.

I don't, ESB said he was on the assault so I assumed he thought Dooku was winning.

I was talking about ESB.

Watch ATOC again. Dooku defeated 2 Jedi and wasn't even tired after fighting Yoda but he was.

No, you need to watch it again did you not see the deep breath after he cut off Anakin's arm.

He looked more like he was relaxing thinking it was over. He breathed out.

Why would he be relaxing if he was trying to leave

He defeated the only 2 Jedi he thought were their. He thought it was over but then Yoda emerged. And Dooku wasn't even breathing hard when he was talking to Yoda.

So how is it he can detect clone troopers with the force but not Yoda?

But the fact is Dooku could never beat Yoda in a lightsabre fight.

-Yoda has 850 years of Lightsabre experience more than anyone else
-Is a master of the unpredictable Ataru style
-His size makes him nearly impossible to hit as shown when three Jedi masters attacking at once failed to hit him

Dooku would give him a very difficult fight but never win.

I still want ESB to explain how Dooku could detect the clone troopers coming but not Yoda.

The Force, Yoda can also sense them.

That doesn't explain why Dooku couldn't sense Yoda

He was preoccupied with Obi-Wan and Anakin.

But he was fighting Yoda when the Clone Troopers were coming

I am through explaing things to you.

Originally posted by DarthGenises
But the fact is Dooku could never beat Yoda in a lightsabre fight.

-Yoda has 850 years of Lightsabre experience more than anyone else
-Is a master of the unpredictable Ataru style
-His size makes him nearly impossible to hit as shown when three Jedi masters attacking at once failed to hit him

Dooku would give him a very difficult fight but never win.

You nimrod... You have all your facts wrong, and because of it your assumptions suck.

Yoda was exhausted from fighting Dooku for perhaps half a minute. Dooku had whupped Anakin twice, Obi-Wan once, and fought with Yoda at breakneck speed and wasn't even winded. That one little sigh/gasp was not an indicator of Dooku being anything but perhaps having a high heart rate. Now Yoda, barely breathing by the time the fight was over, was on death's door.

On to your bullet points:

- Yoda is roughly 850 years old. You don't know when he started training with a lightsaber, nor do you even know how long it takes Yoda's species to mature enough to manipulate objects. For all you know he spent four hundreds years as a tadpole. Point being, while it is likely Yoda spent the majority of that time practicing hsi lightsaber skills in that time of amazing peace, you don't have an exact figure.

- Ataru is not meant to be any more unpredictable than any other style. But in the descriptions of all the lightsaber styles, only Juyo is mentioned as being focused -towards- being unpredictable in its nature by its moves being very unconnected and almost awkward. Now, all of Ataru's moves flow into one another. Watch Yoda fight... Flowing, graceful. Fast, but not unpredictable, as Dooku demonstrated when he was PARRYING WITH HIS LIGHTSABER SPINNING BEHIND HIS BACK. Or am I the only one who saw that?

- Yes, Yoda is a small mother****er. His best advantage right there.

Strange you never call Nai a nimrod when he states these same facts.

Originally posted by DarthGenises
Strange you never call Nai a nimrod when he states these same facts.

No, he calls you a nimrod because you stupidly repeat these facts without forming your own damn opinion, sheep.

Never seen Nai spout out facts he hasn't backed up... Or if I have, I call him on them. Ask him, he'll tell you as much.

Dooku demonstrated when he was PARRYING WITH HIS LIGHTSABER SPINNING BEHIND HIS BACK.
I saw it. Dooku saw ever one of Yoda's move and Dooku's lightsaber form is ment for lightsaber dueling. Form II is almost useless expect for lightsaber duels.

Watched Dooku in ROTS again btw... Am I the only one who wonders why Dooku was constantly fighting directly with Obi-wan and -giving ground- while oftentimes giving up the initiative if he -wasn't- throwing the fight?

I think it has to do with the fact that Dooku wasn't using form II in ROTS.

That or he was egging Anakin on.

One or the other. But what form was Dooku using in ROTS?

SITH SHALL RISE

Originally posted by DarthGenises
Strange you never call Nai a nimrod when he states these same facts.

Dude...because I use to state facts.

A)
Yoda in AotC times is 874 years old. We know that he was given his Jedi Knight status when he was in the age of 50 and we know that he was a Jedi Consular spending most time with study of the force and diplomatic missions. Leads to point

B)
Ataru is not meant to be unpredictable. It's just an aggressive form of lightsaber combat designed to overwhelm a single opponent. Yet the way Yoda uses it makes it unpredictable but not because of the form - it's because of Yodas force mastery. In the fight with Dooku in AotC you can see him jump over Dookus head making an attack, flying in a different direction and attacking again and then landing before Dookus feet again. Impossible for somebody with less force powers or more size.

C)
Yes. Yoda is very hard if not impossible to hit. That would give him nothing against an opponent he's not able to hit.

But...since this debate is quite pointless in my eyes and to end it.

The AotC duel re-watched

So...I had a look at this fight just to do this reply. I went through it picture by picture just to show you who was "superior" here.

Fight starts. You can see Dooku attacking Yoda. The first (two handed) swing by Dooku is parried by Yoda with one hand while spinning. Now Dooku's second attack is also parried but this time Yoda does it with one hand and behind his back.

Now the first critical movement:
Dooku slashes downward to hit Yoda. Yoda jumps over Dookus lightsaber and aims at Dookus back. And this parry behind the back was - in my eyes - more luck than skill from Dooku as he just pulled his strike further than it was meant.
The fight continues with 3 attacks by Yoda (spin, spin, jump) followed by 3 attacks on the other side (stab, stab, jump). Now again Dooku parries behind his back but this parry is useless because Yoda hits his blade from above and thereby - theoretically - could still have hit Dookus back.
That is followed by another 2 spin attacks from Yoda and then Yoda avoids Dookus blade. He parries it but this parry is as useless as the parry behind the back by Dooku before.

Second critical movement:
Dooku tries to hit Yoda. Yoda dodges Dookus lightsaber two times by moving to the left and then you can see that he nearly cuts Dookus right foot of (!) and they engage in the first saber lock in this fight.

Now Yoda pushes Dooku back and please have a look at Dookus face right after that. He is either concentrated or frustrated. Now the lock is broken and Yoda starts attacking again with a spin and at the next attack you can see that Dooku is nearly losing his left hand when he removes it from the lightsaber hilt to parry Yoda's attack.

Then there is this wicked attack series where Yoda jumps and does 3 strikes at Dooku while being in the air. Then Yoda does this series of jumps (Dooku trying to hit him again), followed by the last 3 attacks of the fight, again a saber lock and then Dooku leaves the place.

So please. Yoda was superior in this fight. He threw 20 attacks on Dooku and nearly cut Dookus right foot and his left hand off. You can speculate as much as you like but if this fight would have lasted longer Yoda would have either killed or (literally) disarmed Dooku.

And Yoda was breathing heavily but not from the fight (this can be seen before) but from lifting that metal thing up Dooku threw at Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Nai...your posts are the most detailed I have ever seen...but they hurt my eyes and take to long to read.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Dude...because I use to state facts.

A)
Yoda in AotC times is 874 years old. We know that he was given his Jedi Knight status when he was in the age of 50 and we know that he was a Jedi Consular spending most time with study of the force and diplomatic missions. Leads to point

B)
Ataru is not meant to be unpredictable. It's just an aggressive form of lightsaber combat designed to overwhelm a single opponent. Yet the way Yoda uses it makes it unpredictable but not because of the form - it's because of Yodas force mastery. In the fight with Dooku in AotC you can see him jump over Dookus head making an attack, flying in a different direction and attacking again and then landing before Dookus feet again. Impossible for somebody with less force powers or more size.

C)
Yes. Yoda is very hard if not impossible to hit. That would give him nothing against an opponent he's not able to hit.

But...since this debate is quite pointless in my eyes and to end it.

The AotC duel re-watched

So...I had a look at this fight just to do this reply. I went through it picture by picture just to show you who was "superior" here.

Fight starts. You can see Dooku attacking Yoda. The first (two handed) swing by Dooku is parried by Yoda with one hand while spinning. Now Dooku's second attack is also parried but this time Yoda does it with one hand and behind his back.

Now the first critical movement:
Dooku slashes downward to hit Yoda. Yoda jumps over Dookus lightsaber and aims at Dookus back. And this parry behind the back was - in my eyes - more luck than skill from Dooku as he just pulled his strike further than it was meant.
The fight continues with 3 attacks by Yoda (spin, spin, jump) followed by 3 attacks on the other side (stab, stab, jump). Now again Dooku parries behind his back but this parry is useless because Yoda hits his blade from above and thereby - theoretically - could still have hit Dookus back.
That is followed by another 2 spin attacks from Yoda and then Yoda avoids Dookus blade. He parries it but this parry is as useless as the parry behind the back by Dooku before.

Second critical movement:
Dooku tries to hit Yoda. Yoda dodges Dookus lightsaber two times by moving to the left and then you can see that he nearly cuts Dookus right foot of (!) and they engage in the first saber lock in this fight.

Now Yoda pushes Dooku back and please have a look at Dookus face right after that. He is either concentrated or frustrated. Now the lock is broken and Yoda starts attacking again with a spin and at the next attack you can see that Dooku is nearly losing his left hand when he removes it from the lightsaber hilt to parry Yoda's attack.

Then there is this wicked attack series where Yoda jumps and does 3 strikes at Dooku while being in the air. Then Yoda does this series of jumps (Dooku trying to hit him again), followed by the last 3 attacks of the fight, again a saber lock and then Dooku leaves the place.

So please. Yoda was superior in this fight. He threw 20 attacks on Dooku and nearly cut Dookus right foot and his left hand off. You can speculate as much as you like but if this fight would have lasted longer Yoda would have either killed or (literally) disarmed Dooku.

And Yoda was breathing heavily but not from the fight (this can be seen before) but from lifting that metal thing up Dooku threw at Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Anyone can say that someone "nearly" did something. Hell, i could say Dooku nearly took Yoda's head and legs off on AOTC, just from the slashes when Yoda jumped off the flyer. They were even. Don't even try to tell me that Yoda completly surpassed that fight. He was grunting and screaming because he was having troubles. Don't tell me he had that fight wrapped around his finger, because if he did, Dooku would have been dead before ROTS.

Originally posted by Count Dooku
Anyone can say that someone "nearly" did something. Hell, i could say Dooku nearly took Yoda's head and legs off on AOTC, just from the slashes when Yoda jumped off the flyer. They were even. Don't even try to tell me that Yoda completly surpassed that fight. He was grunting and screaming because he was having troubles. Don't tell me he had that fight wrapped around his finger, because if he did, Dooku would have been dead before ROTS.

Yoda is not fast in killing anybody. But hell...If both opponents use some styles designed to kill a single opponent and one of them strikes 20 attacks while the other manages to get 5 attacks at the other I have to say that the one who did hit 20 attacks dominated the fight.

And have a look at Dookus face. He's also not doing this "easily". In fact they are both badass duellists and I won't deny that but from what I've seen Yoda has still the advantage on Dooku - and I pretty much believe they both didn't want to kill each other in this situation.

It's possible they didn't want to kill one another, but from my viewings of the battle it seems more like a show than a real fight. Notice the dramatic change in Dooku's style.

Dooku and Yoda had a great bond so I doubt they would kill one another.

Sith Lords will win. Maul can beat Obi-Wan. Yoda would look stronger than the Emperor but in the end will lose. Tyrannos will destroy Mace.
BTW, this is a very cool forum, i love some of the explanation given here

Maul will get crushed by Obi-Wan. . . Mace and Tyranus are a stalemate compared to the others. . . and Yoda kills the Master.

I'm craving a tosted bagle with strawberry cream cheese.

And French Silk Pie, we know.

Obi-Wan was more then a match for Maul when he was a Padawn so what you are saying is that now that he is a master he is weaker.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
No it does mean that Yoda can take Sidious in a "fair" fight too. And there never was a fair fight between Yoda and Sidious.



He was too powerfull in that special situation. In the movie you have Yoda disarmed and on the bottom of the Senate chamber while clone troops are coming. Sure Yoda can't defeate Sidious in that situation. In a fair fight he would screw Sidious.
And Sidious won only because of luck. Because being lucky enough to destroy Yodas lightsaber with force lightning and falling off the Senate "pod" on the right side (that side where you can grab on and stay on it).



That is right but since the fight here implies another situation than the fight between Yoda and Sidious shown in the movies - Yoda will win. Because there would be no clones coming and there is no chance for Sidious to take the "high ground" somewhere. This is a straight lightsaber duel and Yoda would kill him without a doubt.

Nai, that is a very true statement. And I agree. But Yoda wouldn't own Palpatine - which is the point I am trying to get across. But yes, in the end, Yoda would probably defeat Sidious. But as with Dooku, it would be far from easily.

The Fact that Sidious managed to get Yoda in a position of inferiority is a testament to his skill. He nearly won the battle without fighting, and even still won despite Yoda's efforts. Sidious>Yoda.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
The Fact that Sidious managed to get Yoda in a position of inferiority is a testament to his skill. He nearly won the battle without fighting, and even still won despite Yoda's efforts. Sidious>Yoda.

So you're saying that if I can manuever someone into a rough spot where they will die, I am technically skilled?

So Luke is more skilled than Moff Tarkin, since he manuevered himself into a position of power and destroyed the Death Star.

So VAder is more skilled than Sidious, considering the dark lord allowed himself to be manuevered into a vulnerable position, from where he was chucked into a reactor core.

So Malak is more skilled than Revan because he was able to fire upon Revan's ship while they were in battle.

Try not to make statements so general that they don't support themselves. Sidious' skill lies in his manipulation, yes. But to say the way he worked the battle is a testament to his skill is akin to saying that the Wampa in ESB was more skilled than Luke because it caught him at a disadvantage. Sidious was fortunate to have been able to catch Yoda at a disadvantage somewhere in the fight. If he was so skilled and he had the upper hand based on his skill alone, he would not have run from Yoda in the first place!

Second, to say he nearly won the battle without fighting is ridiculous. Here's how the fight started:

- Sidious shocks Yoda with Sith lightning, and he catches the jedi master off guard.

- Yoda gets back up and force pushes Sidious into a far wall.

- Sidious gets up and runs for the door.

So his initial plan was to overcome Yoda with his lightning, or (if that didn't work) run the hell out of there.

And as for what transpired next, Sidious was constantly working his tail off (fighting much faster than he did with Mace Windu) until he managed to get the high ground, where he started to use objects the size of VW bugs to attack Yoda.

Please... try and be more articulate when you spout off nonsense.

Jabar, I sort of agree and disagree.

No. I do not think that in neutral terms - on neutral grounds - Sidious would be able to overcome Yoda. I'm not saying the fight would be quick or that Yoda would own him - which he wouldn't - but Sidious would eventually be defeated.

When Sidious blasted Yoda during the initial portion of the fight - Yoda was unprepared. Yes. This IS a failure on Yoda's fault. It is stupidity. If one goes into the stronghold of a dangerous foe, one should be always prepared. Yoda and Sidious engaged in some arrogant banter. Then Sidious raised his hands and blasted Yoda.

I HAVE seen and offered screenshots of Yoda during this blast. Yoda was surprised - and moved to defend himself by blocking the lightning. He is capable of doing so - but Sidious took advantage before he could. Yoda's hands covered his chest - but his defenses were overloaded by Sidious. It knocked him across the room. The blow nearly knocked him out.

Sidious was also at a disadvantage for arrogantly assuming Yoda was done for. Having met face-to-face with Yoda and heard all about him, I would think that Sidious would be a bit more cautious. Yet he didn't, and that goes to show Sidious's greatest weakness is his arrogance. Yoda got back up and Force pushed Sidious across the room. Sidious flipped over his desk, crashed into his chair.

He got up seconds later - as Yoda regrouped. Sidious flipped over his desk and headed for the door.

Now. Sidious is an arrogant coward (a bad combination) - but he left because of the following.

- He triumphed over the Jedi and took over the galaxy. His plans were finally executed. Yet Sidious tried to make a smart move. Why stay and fight with a being who is very much your equal in the Force - when you can live to fight another day...behind an armada of clones?

blah blah blah blah blah ....... yeah i am smart and i know alot about everything so awsome

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
When Sidious blasted Yoda during the initial portion of the fight - Yoda was unprepared. Yes. This IS a failure on Yoda's fault. It is stupidity. If one goes into the stronghold of a dangerous foe, one should be always prepared. Yoda and Sidious engaged in some arrogant banter. Then Sidious raised his hands and blasted Yoda.

That is basically assumption. You can also say that Yoda fooled around with Sidious since he was lying on the ground just long enough to get the Sith Lord close and then force push him through the room.



The point is that Sidious didn't overload Yodas defenses because there were none.



No. He ran because he knew that he'd lose in a fair fight or lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
That is basically assumption. You can also say that Yoda fooled around with Sidious since he was lying on the ground just long enough to get the Sith Lord close and then force push him through the room.



The point is that Sidious didn't overload Yodas defenses because there were none.



No. He ran because he knew that he'd lose in a fair fight or lightsaber duel.

1. So it is an assumption either way, Nai. Clearly your answer has no real proof to support it either.

2. Yoda made a last-ditch effort to try and defend himself. The screenie proved it, Nai. He moved his arms to block the attack. He was too late and Sidious's lightning hit its mark.

3. THAT is pure speculation, Nai.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
1. So it is an assumption either way, Nai. Clearly your answer has no real proof to support it either.

2. Yoda made a last-ditch effort to try and defend himself. The screenie proved it, Nai. He moved his arms to block the attack. He was too late and Sidious's lightning hit its mark.

3. THAT is pure speculation, Nai.

1- That being his point.

2- More like a reflex to me. But this point has been argued. In your quest to prove Sidious' amazing skill you have gone so far as to claim this was a last-second defense, as opposed to a reflex, which makes far more sense.

3- Is it? No more than what you put forth. And him running away indicates that he's afraid of losing or challenging Yoda in those current circumstances. If he wasn't, he should have stayed and killed Yoda once and for all.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
1- That being his point.

2- More like a reflex to me. But this point has been argued. In your quest to prove Sidious' amazing skill you have gone so far as to claim this was a last-second defense, as opposed to a reflex, which makes far more sense.

3- Is it? No more than what you put forth. And him running away indicates that he's afraid of losing or challenging Yoda in those current circumstances. If he wasn't, he should have stayed and killed Yoda once and for all.

1. Indeed. And I agree with him.

2. My quest is to state the obvious. People dismiss Sidious as a half rate Force-user, politician, pathetic duelist, and overall a pathetic Sith Lord. He is not the greatest Force user (but he is highly powerful in it), he is a manipulative genius, and I will admit his dueling skills are sub par when comparing them to Tulak Hord. You all need to face that fact very well. Lucas wouldn't have a Sith Lord take over the Republic if he were pathetic.

Edit: Nevermind. I see what you mean by the reflex point. If, by reflex, you mean trying to block the lightning. But covering one's chest won't stop a bolt of Force lightning. Still, Janus, you can't dismiss that there is a possibility that Yoda WAS trying to defend himself.

3. If so, that still doesn't make Nai right. And yes, he WAS afraid that he would lose against Yoda. For the reasons I stated above.

If you think I didn't mean Palpatine was afraid of fighting Yoda, that wasn't it. He WAS afraid. But remember what Palpatine said to Anakin in the Galaxies Opera. "Those who gain power are afraid to lose it". He was more concerned about coming out alive to rule the Empire, not because he dramatically feared Yoda. As we saw during the duel, Yoda wouldn't certainly own Palpatine.

My explanation regarding Palpatine's fear of death and fear of losing his power makes far more sense than of his fear of Yoda.

Well of course. And in the end we have to grab at information to defend ourselves in this debate. What we need is more concrete information, since we cannot convince one another through other means. But I don't forsee that coming, do you?

No. Because Lucas generally likes fans to make up their own minds. But even so, there is no real truth in Star Wars. Something that I don't like. Concrete evidence is preferred - at least to me - than over speculation of fans such as ourselves.

He needs to write a book that clears up these errors...

I totally agree, but I don't think he will. In particular, I remember him saying specifically for fans to "think outside of the box". And I think that's part of the charm of the series... to each his own truth.

Like I believe that Anakin is a sith creation, made by Plagues' work. That's not proven by anything, but it is hinted at by Sidious himself.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
So you're saying that if I can manuever someone into a rough spot where they will die, I am technically skilled?

So Luke is more skilled than Moff Tarkin, since he manuevered himself into a position of power and destroyed the Death Star.


No, if you realise your opponent's move will happen, then plan accordingly to fully exploit the situation, THEN you are better then your opponent. Imagine Khe Sahn, and how the Vietnamese, after realising that the US thought a DBP type situation was being created, concentrated all effort into aiding that view, still, at the same time going ahead, DESPITE casualties, and executed the Tet Offensive, catching the US off guard. A better way of saying it is like this: "Victorious warriors win (Sidious) first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first (Yoda) and then seek to win."

So show me exactly how Sidious expected to win the war before he fought it when he was fairly surprised at Yoda even surviving Order 66?

Sidious out of all people should have expected the greatest Jedi to survive Order 66.

But he didn't. Watch the movie again.

"Master Yoda... You survived..."

If he expected Yoda to survive, he also would have been intelligent enough to determine that Yoda would come after him. And if he is the cunning, underhanded bastard we know him to be, he would have me Yoda in a room full of clone troopers, not alone with two idiot royal guards.

See, for a genius Sidious sure didn't expect the Great Jedi Master Yoda to survive. Sidious should have put 2 and 2 together.
Yoda + Wookies= Dead Clone Troopers

Originally posted by Darth_Janus

Uhhh, he DID have clone troopers. He just called them in after he fought Yoda, in fact, it appears that he didn't need them at all. Anyway, what could Yoda have done? Killed Sidious? Then what? Have the republic fracture into civil war? Sidious maneuvered Yoda in a situation that HE COULD NOT WIN.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Uhhh, he DID have clone troopers. He just called them in after he fought Yoda, in fact, it appears that he didn't need them at all. Anyway, what could Yoda have done? Killed Sidious? Then what? Have the republic fracture into civil war? Sidious maneuvered Yoda in a situation that HE COULD NOT WIN.

Oh boy. You really didn't understand anything I said, did you?

Sidious was not prepared to fight Yoda in his chamber. He had no backup. He sent Vader off on some errand. He was perfectly secure in his newfound power. And when Yoda arrived, unharmed, he did what he does best; he shot the little guy and tried to make a break for it. Sidious did NOT win the battle because of advanced tactics or foresight. He did NOT win the battle because he was able to manuever Yoda into a bad spot.

He won the battle because he was fortunate enough to knock Yoda's light saber from him and then catch onto a ledge after the lightning battle whereas Yoda had nothing to grip on.

It was luck or perhaps the Force itself that was on Sidious' side, not foresight and tactics.

Secondly, if Sidious really wanted to shape the battlefield to his advantage, he would have confronted Yoda in an open area with plenty of coverfire and just fried the bastard from afar with lightning or something else. SIdious is a Sith. Sith go out of their way to take and maintain power at any cost, any way possible. Sitting there in his office basically alone save for an advisor and two guards was complatency on his part and it almost cost him his life. It was not "planned".

As for the death of Sidious causing civil war, this is unfounded. With the enemy armies gone, and the Sith eradicated, if anything it would be far simpler to reestablish Republic security, especially since the senate still existed. Far simpler than it was after ROTJ, with no senate and nearly three decades of Imperial rule. Most people didn't know what it was like to live in the Republic at that time. The conversion than would have been much worse.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Uhhh, he DID have clone troopers. He just called them in after he fought Yoda, in fact, it appears that he didn't need them at all. Anyway, what could Yoda have done? Killed Sidious? Then what? Have the republic fracture into civil war? Sidious maneuvered Yoda in a situation that HE COULD NOT WIN.
Hey buddy; watch ANH. The galaxy did go to Civil War.

Yeah no shit, except that was after Tarkin's little **** up.
Anyway, Janus, the fact remains that Yoda was never an issue. The fact remains that Yoda COULD NOT HAVE STOPPED THE CREATION OF THE EMPIRE. Sidious OUTMANOEUVRED HIM.
"As for the death of Sidious causing civil war, this is unfounded":
Name me one regime that successfully survived the death of a tyrant. To use the example of Rome, after Caesar's death, even with a senate and clear successors, a horrific civil war broke out. Anyway, who's to say that Sidious didn't have clones in place by that point?

Why would any Jedi/Sith after taking control of the galaxy want to fight Yoda to the death?

What the hell does wanting to fight have anything to do with it?

Anyway, who's to say that Sidious didn't have clones in place by that point?
You are talking about Sidious vs. Yoda right?

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Yeah no shit, except that was after Tarkin's little **** up.


What ? The rebellion started basically when Sidious took the power.



Yoda could have killed Sidious and he could have stopped the creation of the Empire because: If Sidious would have been killed this would have resulted in Vader being killed also leaving an army of clone troopers that would have listened to anybody (being designed to be commanded around) and the Senate could have easily elected a new Chancellor. So: Where was the problem for Yoda to stop Sidious ?



There was no regime in ROTS times. And who should have started a civil war ? And why ?

-Cough- Sidious knocked Yoda's lightsaber away out of skill. Sidious jumped on to a Senate pod, and Yoda followed. Yoda ignited his blade and moved in for the kill. Sidious shot lightning from his hand - notice it didn't hit Yoda anywhere else - and knocked the saber away.

Sidious did it with intent to disarm Yoda.

How do you know Yoda didn't disarm Sidious? If you noticed he never showed any signs of having his lightsaber on him.

Whoa? Where'd that come from?

I never said Yoda did NOT disarm Sidious. We're talking about Sidious blasting Yoda's lightsaber from his hands. Which he did.

There was no regime in ROTS times. And who should have started a civil war ? And why ?
I'l do this more in the morning but Mas Amedda for one, as well as planetary governers (Onderon for one).
2) The "rebellion" as we know it started with the Ghorman Massacre, which convinced Mon Montha & co of the eeeevilness of the Empire.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl

The senate had already made the republic into the empire by that point. Someone else would have seized power anyway (mentioned before).

sith rock but jedi always overcome in the end
....but the sith will RISE i swear it

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
-Cough- Sidious knocked Yoda's lightsaber away out of skill. Sidious jumped on to a Senate pod, and Yoda followed. Yoda ignited his blade and moved in for the kill. Sidious shot lightning from his hand - notice it didn't hit Yoda anywhere else - and knocked the saber away.

Sidious did it with intent to disarm Yoda.

I told you once and I will tell you again: There is no way to aim on a weapon with lightning. Get it. He was aiming at Yoda and Yoda dropped (!) the lightsaber to deflect the lightning so Sidious was L U C K Y !

No. The lightning blast damaged the lightsaber. There were blue sparks all around it. I'm telling you, the blast knocked it from his hand. Can you provide me with a screenshot that says otherwise? Concrete proof would be beneficial. Forgive me if I don't take your word on it, Nai. You also said Yoda was attempting to protect his eyes from Sidious's Force lightning - which really didn't make any sense at all - so...um...if you do provide a screenie, I'll consent. But not one moment until then.

Janus watch the fight again. Sidious FLed the LS away, Darth Somebody is right, it blew right out of his hand. Also, Yoda got propelled downward, whereas it looks like Sidious got thrown, though not nearly with the same amount of power. Even if Yoda managed to get up, he couldn't have won.

Well, Yoda by no means dropped the weapon. It was blasted out of his hand. And I'm inclined to go with DS and Jabar here on the fact that Sidious knocked away Yoda's saber. If you watch closely, as soon as Yoda lands, saber in the right hand, Sidious left hand shoots the bolt of lighting that decides the duel. The blast hits Yoda's saber, knocking it away, and also throwing Yoda off balance. He begins blocking it the moment it touches him, but it shakes his hold nonetheless. A second later, Sidious shoots a bolt out of his right hand; Yoda blocks with his left. This is where the little engagement of power begins, but that's going too far.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Well, Yoda by no means dropped the weapon. It was blasted out of his hand. And I'm inclined to go with DS and Jabar here on the fact that Sidious knocked away Yoda's saber. If you watch closely, as soon as Yoda lands, saber in the right hand, Sidious left hand shoots the bolt of lighting that decides the duel. The blast hits Yoda's saber, knocking it away, and also throwing Yoda off balance. He begins blocking it the moment it touches him, but it shakes his hold nonetheless. A second later, Sidious shoots a bolt out of his right hand; Yoda blocks with his left. This is where the little engagement of power begins, but that's going too far.

Ha! Yoda DID drop the weapon. I've watched it yet again! He drops it to block the wave of Sith lightning, which requires both of his hands. And as if that wasn't enough for the prowess of Yoda, he completely reverses the wave of lightning backwards at Sidious, creating a shockwave that sent both sprawling. The difference being that Sidious was able to grab a rail while Yoda had no such thing on his side.

I did watch closely, my friend. And Yoda clearly dropped it so he could block the lightning. I think what's really unique is that no one mentions HOW Sidious got the high ground. Or even HOW he lost his lightsaber, since neither were shown. We go from one scene where they are duking it out to Yoda dropping down to a lower pod and Sidious, saberless for the rest of the fight, throwing pods at him.

Anyone want to offer theories at this point?

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Janus watch the fight again. Sidious FLed the LS away, Darth Somebody is right, it blew right out of his hand. Also, Yoda got propelled downward, whereas it looks like Sidious got thrown, though not nearly with the same amount of power. Even if Yoda managed to get up, he couldn't have won.
I refuse to believe that

Then don't, and don't waste bandwith by saying so.
Janus: Sorry mate, but that's not what happened. Turn to 2:53:36.18 if you have the movie DLed. He raised it to strike, then Sidious blew it away. THEN Yoda made the shockwave.