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The two dual saber wielders do battle, which one wins?

Although I can't provide proof, I'd say that Kavar wins. He was the head poncho of the most martial group of Jedi in the Order. He also seemed to be second only to Vrook on the Council. I hold Asajj in very high reguard(about equal to ROTS Obi-wan), but I don't think she will win this.

Uh, there might actually be a bunch of people above Kavar around his time (Malak, Revan, Vodo, Ulic, Kun, possibly Exile, Kreia, possibly Vrook, possibly Vandar, probably Zhar)

Malak, Revan, Exile(obviously), Kreia(obviously), maybe Vrook. not Vandar, and definatley not Zhar.

Though Asaaj is probably equal to RotS Anakin, I would give this to Kavar though we only see him fight once.

Here are the people in the KOTOR time we KNOW could defeat Kavar.

Revan (beat Malak who beat Kavar)
Malak (duh)
Traya (duh)
Nihilus (he could defeat anyone except for the below)
Exile (duh)

The people who could defeat Ventress are numerous, too much to bother putting down. Clone Wars Anakin could defeat Ventress. In Obsession she was no joke, but still I woudn't put her above Kavar who was the best duelist of the Jedi Order .

Why not Zhar? It's quite clear he outranks the other three on Dantooine. It was him who was trusted with the retraining of Revan.

Problem is we have seen absolutely nothing of Zhar. He may be a weakling or one badass motha**cka.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Here are the people in the KOTOR time we KNOW could defeat Kavar.

Revan (beat Malak who beat Kavar)
Malak (duh)
Traya (duh)
Nihilus (he could defeat anyone except for the below)
Exile (duh)

The people who could defeat Ventress are numerous, too much to bother putting down. Clone Wars Anakin could defeat Ventress. In Obsession she was no joke, but still I woudn't put her above Kavar who was the best duelist of the Jedi Order .

Except that we know absolutely nothing regarding the circumstances of Kavar's battle with Malak. For all we know, Malak could have suffered his infamous jaw wound at Kavar's hands.

If so then it was probably Malak when he was newb, not the dark lord. Malak did force Kavar to retreat.

There could have been dozens of Sith Troopers blasting away at him during the fight...

You have no proof of this. The Jedi council could have been with Kavar then.

We have no proof, we only know that Malak pimp slapped Kavar and forced the best duelist to run away with tail between legs.

Yeah, that's the point, we don't know how he did it.

It was in a lightsaber duel though. That we know. Kavar admits this in KOTOR 2. Besides I don't understand how people come to the conclusion that Kavar removed Malak's jaw.

Again, zephiel. Where the hell does this ''pimp slapped him and sent him running with his tail between his legs'' and "the Jedi Council was with him'' come from? That's hypocrisy if I've ever seen it. By your logic, I can say the following:

Kavar challenged Malak to try and bring him back to the Jedi, away from the path of war he was travelling. Malak gets pissed, they fight, Kavar ''pimp slapped" Malak and severed his jaw, then was ambushed by squads of Sith troopers and chased off.

Disprove that.

Originally posted by Faunus
Again, zephiel. Where the hell does this ''pimp slapped him and sent him running with his tail between his legs'' and "the Jedi Council was with him'' come from? That's hypocrisy if I've ever seen it. By your logic, I can say the following:

Kavar challenged Malak to try and bring him back to the Jedi, away from the path of war he was travelling. Malak gets pissed, they fight, Kavar ''pimp slapped" Malak and severed his jaw, then was ambushed by squads of Sith troopers and chased off.

Disprove that.


What I mean is that Malak was the better dueler between himself and Kavar. The part about "the Jedi Council was with him," was to prove the point that its ridiculous to invent situations that would skew the outcome of the fight. I could say one thing that would make Malak look stronger, and you or Gamblor could say something else to make Malak look weaker. We have the bare bone facts that Malak forced Kavar to retreat from a lightsaber duel.

The jaw thing is ridiculous. There is absolutely ZERO proof that Kavar was the one who cut of Malak's jaw. It was probably Revan when the two dueled for position as dark lord, given the context of the situation.

Originally posted by zephiel7
What I mean is that Malak was the better dueler between himself and Kavar. The part about "the Jedi Council was with him," was to prove the point that its ridiculous to invent situations that would skew the outcome of the fight. I could say one thing that would make Malak look stronger, and you or Gamblor could say something else to make Malak look weaker. We have the bare bone facts that Malak forced Kavar to retreat from a lightsaber duel.

The jaw thing is ridiculous. There is absolutely ZERO proof that Kavar was the one who cut of Malak's jaw. It was probably Revan when the two dueled for position as dark lord, given the context of the situation.

Yet again, you have no proof for that yourself. We have the ''bare bones facts'' that their battle ended with Kavar escaping; the circumstances are unknown. You've posted in the past that you consider the Rotunda battle in RotS to be a victory for Yoda; he ended fleeing himself. I suppose he was ''pimp slapped,'' too?

Besides, it was stated that the wound was inflicted prior to his ascension, and I don't see Revan maiming the guy who he's trying to save the galaxy with.

what has assaj really accomplished...oh yeah not a damned thing except getting owned by that cry baby anakin, she couldn't even become a full jedi(or a full sith for that matter) and we're comparing her to a full fledged jedi master. that in it's self sugests major ownage, now lets remember that kavar was a renowned swordsman, a famous jedi guardian who was supposed to lead the jedi into war, it's really not much of a competition it's like saying mace windu v.s ventress(admittedly there's no concrete evidence he was equal with windu but he's very much the same type of jedi).

I doubt it was a stalemate. Analyze the situation. The Jedi council knew the only person who could defeat Malak was Revan. The other Jedi masters were far too weak. Vrook admits that Malak is currently strongest force user around in KOTOR.



This is sith Revan and Malak. Since when were the Sith afraid to teach a lesson in pain to their apprentices when obtaining position.

Um...you do no that there's absolutley no mention at all concerning the circumstances which lead to malak losing his jaw, for all we know it could be the result of dentistry gone horribly horribly wrong.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Here are the people in the KOTOR time we KNOW could defeat Kavar.

Revan (beat Malak who beat Kavar)
Malak (duh)
Traya (duh)
Nihilus (he could defeat anyone except for the below)
Exile (duh)

The people who could defeat Ventress are numerous, too much to bother putting down. Clone Wars Anakin could defeat Ventress. In Obsession she was no joke, but still I woudn't put her above Kavar who was the best duelist of the Jedi Order .

Notice that I said that he appeared to be second on the Council. None of the people you mentioned were on the Council. I also doubt that the Exile would win anyway.

DS exile does win, he kills all 3 jedi masters, he also beats kreia who killed the three of them.

We don't know if the Exile is canonly DS or LS though. I don't think LS Exile would win, and even if the Exile was DS you don't have to defeat Kavar.

Indeed, but on the Kavar vs Malak fight we don't know the exact circum stances, but we do know that most people (Mandalore) fought Kavar had died.

We know that Zez Kai and Kavar both admit to being weaker

and we know that the Jedi Council thought Revan was the only that could beat Malak.

So that does mean Malak > Kavar.

Right you are, fisherman.

true, the point i was trying to make was that in the game, when the exile is given a chance to beat kavar he could succeed if he took it.

Possibly there is a problem with that though, and we don't know if he did or did not. We don't know if he could have or could not have. We know that Kreia had the power and the ability canon, but we can't really say the same about the Exile because we have never seen him actually do it or know for sure that he could. If the Exile is LS canon then he is a lot less impressive then if he's DS.

What makes you think that? Kreia states that the Exile was her best student regardless of whatever path he took.

Kreia her oppinion is somewhat biased probably... And it doesn't mean much to be honest.

But if the exile is LS, we have very little confirmed kills if he's DS he at least killed the Jedi Council Members, of course he did do that with borrowed powers, bu the probably kept those powers even when he restored his connection to the force completely so that doesn't really matter.

exile is unknown, that being said if you took the oppurtunity you could kill kavar, therefore if he did take the opportunity we know he's more powerful, if he didn't we know he would have won anyways.

I was trying to arrive at that point. From what we see of him in DS perspective, we know he can accomplish that much if he were LS.