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Probably the 2 most powerful jedi in their respective eras. Takes place in the throne room of the death star.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Probably the 2 most powerful jedi in their respective eras. Takes place in the throne room of the death star.

Baas is certainly the strongest of his era. Mace? Number two.

Still think it'd be a good fight. I'm torn. On the one hand, Baas got pwned by Kun . . . but, on the other, Kun is a good step or two above RotS Sidious in my personal opinion . . .

Eeeeh...................

You actually made a good thread, in my opinion. I've gotta think on it.

What the hell...Stop it. Yoda was stronger than Mace and it's outrighted stated

You think Baas got pwned by Kun. I think it was pretty close. Kun was never actually able to outduel Vodo and break through his defences, he had to use his phenomenal strength to break his stick. My interpretation of the duel was that Vodo was doing better, but it is just my interpretation and it is hard to interpret fight scenes from a comic.

I'd put thon, Ood and Arca over Baas

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'd put thon, Ood and Arca over Baas

Really? Thon? possibly. Ood? Hell no. Arca? No, but I do believe that he's slightly underrated.

What'd Vodo ever do to put himself on the position of strongest?

He was able to make his stick able to withstand the cutting power of a saber with the force. He was able to contend with Kun in a battle and was a slightly better dueler imo. He mastered the force blocking technique. His teachings were considered one of the most valuable pieces of jedi history by The Disciple.

Big deal, Tor Snappit was able to harden his staff as well
And Wisdom isn't exactly power.

What has Vodo done that is impressive except being killed by Kun? Wouldn't Mace physical strenght be equal or even beyond Kun's? Wouldn't Mace be as surprising to Vodo as Kun because they both had invented their own styles?

I think the fight might be good, but Mace could probably crack his staff like Kun did...

It would be a pretty interesting match, as Vodo seems to utilise Soresu, whuc is the basic opposite of Vaapad.

What? When is that even HINTED? Vodo's hardly the most defensive fighter

Notice how he wields his staff. Whether or not Soresu was even invented at that time, it seems that he utilises a defencive form.

Here Lightsnake, he pretty much wields his staff like this te entire battle.

Why don't we post the NEXT scan where he goes on the offensive?

The only time in the entire fight where he goes on the offensive.

the fight is only another two panels...in two, he's defensive, in anoter two, he's offensive

There are 11 panels...
He is in an offensive stance in one of them.
In the rest, he is wielding his staff in a defencive stance.

We clearly don't see it all. A fight doesn't consist of 2 or 3 punches each, and look at the lines they are saying. Do you think they can talk for that long and still only deliver a single hit? We don't see enough to figure it out....

Besides, it may have been because Kun was going offensivley against him and he had to defend. Like when Anakin performs a flip during a battle in ROTS doesn't mean he is using Ataru....

Hence why I said that Vodo 'seems' to utilise a defencive style. The evidence is pointing in that way, and it probably is but there is no way you can truly tell from a comic book.

He seems to utilize... blocking... so what? I think a good ol' boot to the face would be Vodo's Shatterpoint. Mace has way more going for him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Big deal, Tor Snappit was able to harden his staff as well
And Wisdom isn't exactly power.

No, but knowledge is power and wisdom is a step above knowledge.

Anyway...I believe Mace would be able to take down Vodo, he might even realize that Vodo's "protected" staff is his weakness.

Hmm... good thread. I'm not sure who'd win, though I suspect Mace would due to sheer strength, he could break Vodo's walking stick just like Kun did.

Baas would win. Why? Look up the Baas vs Yoda thread.

So? Look at the Mace vs Yoda thread. Many people believe Mace might win.

So look at the Vodo vs Yoda thread. Everyone believed Vodo would win. And there is substantial evidence too.

Well, they were working under the premise that Vodo was the grandmaster of the Old Jedi Order. Though I do not have the knowledge to disprove this premise, some of the current members might find it false.

I doubt he was the GM. Odun-Urr seemed to fit that position more then Vodo.

Urr was the spoksman. it said that somewhere. If Vodo wasnt GM then he was very close, like mace on the council. I belive that mace will win becouse what is Vodo gooing to do? Hit his head with a stick. pul-eze

Alright, I bumped the "Vodo vs Yoda" thread to help out with this. Some really great arguements by IKC and Illustrious. Oh and please ignore my posts. That was way back when...when I was a "n00b"

I'd say Master Vodo would win this. Mace might be able to break his staff, but I find it doubtfull.

Originally posted by Flamboyant4Life
Alright, I bumped the "Vodo vs Yoda" thread to help out with this. Some really great arguements by IKC and Illustrious. Oh and please ignore my posts. That was way back when...when I was a "n00b"

Man, some of the old debaters were really good.

Illustrious, Nai, Janus, IKC

Well I already know that Nai's good, and didn't really see Janus in that thread, but Fishy, Illustrious and IKC were excellent.

I've read through some old threads and I have to say that it goes:
1. Faunus.
2. IKC.
3. Illustrious.
4. Janus.
5. Nai.

Nai #5?

Too high or low?

low..

He's an exceptional debator, but so are IKC, Faunus, Janus and Illustrious.

Faunus #1? He's a good debator but I would put Illustrious or IKC at #1.

Illustrious is the MEGA pwnage. He was the orchestrator of the RFC(Revan Fanboy Cleansing).

Mace or tie

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Really? Thon? possibly. Ood? Hell no. Arca? No, but I do believe that he's slightly underrated.

Ood was not that bad considering he contended with Kun but on the other hand Vodo Might have done way better in his fight against Kun if he had a lightsaber and if kun did not have his double-bladed. Arca sucks he got pwned by a droid he should have sensed that. Thon was Good and I would rate him #2.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
I doubt he was the GM. Odun-Urr seemed to fit that position more then Vodo.

In his prime Odan in my opinion would defeat Vodo

1. Odan.
2. Vodo.
3. Thon.
4. Arca.
5. Ood.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
1. Odan.
2. Vodo.
3. Thon.
4. Arca.
5. Ood.

What is this list? How the hell does Odan go above Vodo? Explanation please, because I seem to remember Odan "being more of a scholar than a fighter", reading bedtime stories to younglings and Vodo actually training students for some 600 odd years, while doing something important like let's say...training the most powerful force of the era, Exar Kun.

Odan's done some impressive things (his BM, stripping of the Force, fighting Sith, etc.), but really - I'd doubt he'd stand up to Kun (even in his prime) as well as Vodo did; albeit Vodo didn't do good, Odan just wouldn't be able to put up such a fight.

On top of that, Odan isn't physically as strong as Kun - and I doubt he'd be able to break Vodo's stick if he conjured it up, seeing as how it's "more powerful than Exar Kun's lightsaber!".

Might aswell not include any of thise guys.A young mod by the name of Ushgarak,who was an enemie of theirs,even when he was a mod,helped the other Mods hunt down and destroy the Antedilluvians.He didn't betray or murder any of them,he just PWNed them.Now the Antedilluvians are all but extinct.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
What is this list? How the hell does Odan go above Vodo? Explanation please, because I seem to remember Odan "being more of a scholar than a fighter", reading bedtime stories to younglings and Vodo actually training students for some 600 odd years, while doing something important like let's say...training the most powerful force of the era, Exar Kun.

Odan's done some impressive things (his BM, stripping of the Force, fighting Sith, etc.), but really - I'd doubt he'd stand up to Kun (even in his prime) as well as Vodo did; albeit Vodo didn't do good, Odan just wouldn't be able to put up such a fight.

On top of that, Odan isn't physically as strong as Kun - and I doubt he'd be able to break Vodo's stick if he conjured it up, seeing as how it's "more powerful than Exar Kun's lightsaber!".

Hold up. It's my opinion. In his prime when he was likely strong and agile, discovering ancient forgotten force techniques such as Battle Meditation and the Force Blocking technique and battling ancient sith, he was likely a total badass. And with knowledge comes great power.

And one other thing. Who says that you need to break Vodo's stick to defeat him? Why not just outduel him? And again, I'd like to repeat, it's my opinion, so please don't jump on my ass when you can't even disprove said opinion.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Hold up. It's my opinion.

I never said it was otherwise, I just asked for an explanation.



Not really, he was never a real fighter. Most of the way Ooroo describes him, the way Odan himself describes himself, and the way we see him at his death pretty much supports that. And he was never shown to be strong physically. Maybe strong in the Force, no doubt about that.



Ancient forgotten techniques? What the hell? Battle Meditation cannot save you in a one on one bout. And Vodo knows the Force blocking technique too apparently.



Yes, and Odan at age 1,000 was tooled with a swipe of the hand by Exar Kun. Odan who had been studying for a thousand years, and had an influx of knowledge. Odan basically was knowledge, however, it definitely didn't increase his power tenfold.



No one? Just a single point that adds to a list of disadvantages for Odan.



Odan likely - from what we know about him - would not be able to stand up to someone like Vodo. Proof that Odan is good with a lightsaber? In TOTJ he barely even used it, it was always his BM that saved the day.

And again, please show me where Odan is said to be good with a lightsaber.



Really? Basically, all your esteemed opinion was just speculation. "He stripped Sith of the Force, so he must be a good fighter", "He must've been a badass because he could use Battle Meditation", or "In his prime he was most likely strong and agile" with no given reasons to support your claims.

Let's ignore the facts like he's never been physically strong (as much is obvious), he's always been more of a bookworm and a savant, and he's never displayed any real skills with a lightsaber. You can add he got killed by Exar quite easily too, even with all that supreme knowledge. While Vodo was busy training people for 600 years, so you know he was practicing his skills with that, and actually can withstand Exar Kun for more than two seconds.

I have no doubt Odan was a capable fighter, but when comparing him to Vodo - I'd hardly put him over in combat.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I never said it was otherwise, I just asked for an explanation.

Your words were 'what the hell', which was quite an aggresive reply. If we were in a debate, I would understand, but I was just listing my opinion with no intention of starting a debate.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Not really, he was never a real fighter. Most of the way Ooroo describes him, the way Odan himself describes himself, and the way we see him at his death pretty much supports that. And he was never shown to be strong physically. Maybe strong in the Force, no doubt about that.

Actually, GAOTS and FOTSE makes it clear that Odan was going to drop his studies (to a degree) and become more of an active warrior. It was clearly Master Ooroo's wish, and when he died I wouldn't be surprised if Odan would have taken on a new approach to the jedi way. There is also the fact that Odan is seen on the front of one of the comics with his saber ignited, battling the sith.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Ancient forgotten techniques? What the hell? Battle Meditation cannot save you in a one on one bout. And Vodo knows the Force blocking technique too apparently.

Yes, ancient forgotten techniques, like Battle mediation and likely many other techniques such as stripping one of the force. And here's something from the 'Power of the Jedi Sourcebook':

'Odan-Urr - Keeper of antiquities. The teachings of Odan-Urr formed a foundation of the jedi code. He spent much of his time studying ancient texts and artifacts and meditating on the force. Master Odan-Urr lived for many centuries during which time he poured over manuscripts at the library of Ossus and presided over jedi assemblies. His insights into the will of the living force were taught for millenia after his passing'

Battle Meditation and the force blocking technique were just examples. And it's logical to assume that Odan introduced the force blocking technique to the jedi order, and possibly could have taught Vodo himself. I mean he was the one to teach Nomi...

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Yes, and Odan at age 1,000 was tooled with a swipe of the hand by Exar Kun. Odan who had been studying for a thousand years, and had an influx of knowledge. Odan basically was knowledge, however, it definitely didn't increase his power tenfold.

Well at this stage, he was extremely old and weak. He even says 'I am old and weak, and there is evil in the galaxy that I cannot stop'. This implies that he maybe believed himself to be the galaxy's ultimate protecter when he was young and in his prime. However he was now too old and could therefor not stop it.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
No one? Just a single point that adds to a list of disadvantages for Odan.

Hold up. Make up yur mind. Is the stick an advantage for Vodo or Odan, because in your original post you implied that it was an advantage for Vodo, but now you directly stated it to be an advantage for Odan.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Odan likely - from what we know about him - would not be able to stand up to someone like Vodo. Proof that Odan is good with a lightsaber? In TOTJ he barely even used it, it was always his BM that saved the day.

It seems that he must have fought the sith outside of what we see in the comic. He is even seen fighting the sith on the front cover of one of the comics.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
And again, please show me where Odan is said to be good with a lightsaber.

This is never said. However, absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Really? Basically, all your esteemed opinion was just speculation. "He stripped Sith of the Force, so he must be a good fighter", "He must've been a badass because he could use Battle Meditation", or "In his prime he was most likely strong and agile" with no given reasons to support your claims.

As I said, it was my opinion and yes, I was speculating. Most of my speculation however is based on logical deduction. And please don't twist my words.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Let's ignore the facts like he's never been physically strong (as much is obvious), he's always been more of a bookworm and a savant, and he's never displayed any real skills with a lightsaber. You can add he got killed by Exar quite easily too, even with all that supreme knowledge. While Vodo was busy training people for 600 years, so you know he was practicing his skills with that, and actually can withstand Exar Kun for more than two seconds.

I've already adressed these points.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I have no doubt Odan was a capable fighter, but when comparing him to Vodo - I'd hardly put him over in combat.

And that's your opinion.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Your words were 'what the hell', which was quite an aggressive reply. If we were in a debate, I would understand, but I was just listing my opinion with no intention of starting a debate.

I'm an "aggressive replier", so don't take how I say things to heart. I'm quite explicit and sarcastic on these forums, so I do apologize for that.



Really? Care to show me where it makes it clear? And, really, active warrior? Lol, we still see his old ass studying books at the end of his life.

Heh, that kind of reminds me of what I saw last time. A scholar. New book, same Odan.



What are you talking about? Where is he "battling the Sith"? All I see is Odan with his lightsaber ignited, looking as if he's about to swing it and Odan just basically holding his lightsaber.

Oh wait! I forgot his Bruce Lee pose on the cover of GAOTS.

Anyways, Ooroo's wish? When Ooroo died, Odan's *wish* was "I wish I could have just stayed back with you, back in peaceful times...surrounded by my beloved books". Ooroo replies with "You will grow old and die among your precious books and scrolls". From that conversation it hardly implies Odan will become a battle heavy warrior, even Master Ooroo knows Odan's future - a bookworm.



Sadly, Vodo knows the Force blocking technique too. And Battle Meditation wouldn't be used against Vodo because while Odan would be sitting there, he'd receive a fine wooden stick shoved up his ass compliments of Vodo.



Wow. That sure shows me that Odan's a die hard warrior, or even a warrior for that matter. All it says is he studies most of his life, and meditated. Great job on proving Odan became a "more of an active warrior", and that he "took a new approach to the Jedi way". Seems he still did the same old, same old.



And this tells me...?



Oh please. The "I" was not italicized, or gave indication of what you are saying. Maybe if he would've said "...that even I cannot stop", then yeah - however, he said nothing of the sort, and it doesn't imply jack.

Vodo actually was confident enough in his skill to think he could stop Exar Kun, even being 600 years old.



ROFL. "Directly state it to be an advantage for Odan"? LMFAO.

I said directly that it "adds to the disadvantages for Odan". Let me go over that:

"Adds to" meaning just that combines,
"Disadvantages" meaning unfavorable condition, and
"For Odan" meaning just that.

Add three together and you get the outcome: that it adds to a list of disadvantages for Odan. In other words, it's a disadvantage for Odan, and obviously I've already stated it to be an advantage for Vodo.

Wow. You really need to get a grasp on reading comprehension, or just plain stop making sh*t up.



Tell me - what comic is that? Because on the covers of what I see Odan on, he's just holding his saber. And, of course he's battled Sith outside of what we see, he outright stated it. Regardless, he talks about stripping them of the Force, which doesn't imply he's actually can fight with a lightsaber.



However, you cannot just say that. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, but extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof - ever heard that? I could just as well say that Jack and the Beanstalk existed once because there's no evidence to disprove it.

And yes, I think it's quite a claim to say Odan's a good lightsaber wielding warrior when there's no evidence to suggest such. At all.



I don't. I put in quotes what you basically were saying:

"In his prime when he was likely strong and agile, "

Most likely? Deducting that claim from what exactly?

"discovering ancient forgotten force techniques such as Battle Meditation and the Force Blocking technique and battling ancient sith, he was likely a total badass. "

Likely? Deducting that claim from what exactly?

All he ever says is that he used Force techniques to battle them really.

"Why not just outduel him?"

Deducting that question/assertion can outduel him] from what exactly?

I didn't twist your words around, that's basically the message you sent. Your claims are not logically deducted. Do you even know what that is, if I may ask?

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I'm an "aggressive replier", so don't take how I say things to heart. I'm quite explicit and sarcastic on these forums, so I do apologize for that.

Well it really upset me, so try and be a tad bit more sensitive.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Really? Care to show me where it makes it clear? And, really, active warrior? Lol, we still see his old ass studying books at the end of his life.

Heh, that kind of reminds me of what I saw last time. A scholar. New book, same Odan.



What are you talking about? Where is he "battling the Sith"? All I see is Odan with his lightsaber ignited, looking as if he's about to swing it and Odan just basically holding his lightsaber.

Oh wait! I forgot his Bruce Lee pose on the cover of GAOTS.

Anyways, Ooroo's wish? When Ooroo died, Odan's *wish* was "I wish I could have just stayed back with you, back in peaceful times...surrounded by my beloved books". Ooroo replies with "You will grow old and die among your precious books and scrolls". From that conversation it hardly implies Odan will become a battle heavy warrior, even Master Ooroo knows Odan's future - a bookworm.



Sadly, Vodo knows the Force blocking technique too. And Battle Meditation wouldn't be used against Vodo because while Odan would be sitting there, he'd receive a fine wooden stick shoved up his ass compliments of Vodo.



Wow. That sure shows me that Odan's a die hard warrior, or even a warrior for that matter. All it says is he studies most of his life, and meditated. Great job on proving Odan became a "more of an active warrior", and that he "took a new approach to the Jedi way". Seems he still did the same old, same old.



And this tells me...?



Oh please. The "I" was not italicized, or gave indication of what you are saying. Maybe if he would've said "...that even I cannot stop", then yeah - however, he said nothing of the sort, and it doesn't imply jack.

Vodo actually was confident enough in his skill to think he could stop Exar Kun, even being 600 years old.



ROFL. "Directly state it to be an advantage for Odan"? LMFAO.

I said directly that it "adds to the disadvantages for Odan". Let me go over that:

"Adds to" meaning just that combines,
"Disadvantages" meaning unfavorable condition, and
"For Odan" meaning just that.

Add three together and you get the outcome: that it adds to a list of disadvantages for Odan. In other words, it's a disadvantage for Odan, and obviously I've already stated it to be an advantage for Vodo.

Wow. You really need to get a grasp on reading comprehension, or just plain stop making sh*t up.



Tell me - what comic is that? Because on the covers of what I see Odan on, he's just holding his saber. And, of course he's battled Sith outside of what we see, he outright stated it. Regardless, he talks about stripping them of the Force, which doesn't imply he's actually can fight with a lightsaber.



However, you cannot just say that. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, but extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof - ever heard that? I could just as well say that Jack and the Beanstalk existed once because there's no evidence to disprove it.

And yes, I think it's quite a claim to say Odan's a good lightsaber wielding warrior when there's no evidence to suggest such. At all.



I don't. I put in quotes what you basically were saying:

"In his prime when he was likely strong and agile, "

Most likely? Deducting that claim from what exactly?

"discovering ancient forgotten force techniques such as Battle Meditation and the Force Blocking technique and battling ancient sith, he was likely a total badass. "

Likely? Deducting that claim from what exactly?

All he ever says is that he used Force techniques to battle them really.

"Why not just outduel him?"

Deducting that question/assertion can outduel him] from what exactly?

I didn't twist your words around, that's basically the message you sent. Your claims are not logically deducted. Do you even know what that is, if I may ask?

lol, not that I'm trying to back out of this or anything MOKOTO, but I really don't have the energy to start a debate with someone who replies in such big segments like you. If the source of the debate was something that I really firmly believed in, maybe, but it wasn't. If you want a debate, go here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412163&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Oh please. The "I" was not italicized, or gave indication of what you are saying. Maybe if he would've said "...that even I cannot stop", then yeah - however, he said nothing of the sort, and it doesn't imply jack.

Vodo actually was confident enough in his skill to think he could stop Exar Kun, even being 600 years old.

I know that I said I wouldn't reply, but just a few things:

1. The feeling that I got from that statement was what I already listed, and that was just a opinion. However I'm sure other's share it.

2. No, he knew that it was his duty as his master.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
I know that I said I wouldn't reply, but just a few things:

1. The feeling that I got from that statement was what I already listed, and that was just a opinion. However I'm sure other's share it.

You're sure? Care to then list some of the people that share your esteemed opinion?



http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/120/oldrepublic2120as1.th.jpg

He went there with the intent to stop Exar Kun, he was confident he could, not just because he was his master. Do you really think Vodo would fight for no reason? Because basically, if Vodo didn't think he could win - that's pretty much what he'd be doing.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
I've read through some old threads and I have to say that it goes:
1. Faunus.
2. IKC.
3. Illustrious.
4. Janus.
5. Nai.

Uh no...

1. Illustrious
2. Faunus
3. Janus
4. Nai


IKC is somewhere in teh trash can...

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

#1. Odan was a lover not a fighter
#2. Vodo designed his stick to be able to withstand a lightsaber(not sure why I even added the obvious)
#3. Kun designed his lightsaber to increase intensity using only 1 focus crystal or power cell or what not, so when he turned on the second side of his lightsaber it was as if he was using one(Again not sure why I even added this crap).
#4. I don't see how you interpret that Kun "tooled" Vodo based on comic book scans. For all you know it could have been a long fought battle and once he started using the double light saber, that became too much for Vodo to handle.
I would put Mace and Yoda above Vodo and probably on the level of Ulic..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
#1. Odan was a lover not a fighter

Lol.



Well, I'll stick my thoughts that Vodo got tooled. It really doesn't matter, but hey - that's what I infer from the comic.

Kun was being contemptuous with him and trying to commute Vodo to the Darkside. As soon as he realizes Vodo won't falter, he casually steps back, ignites the other end of his lightsaber, gives a quick sermon, and then cleaves Vodo in two effortlessly. All with one side of his lightsaber. Add to the fact he was practically grinning the whole fight, and that's how I see it. Not to mention how well he fared as a padawan against Vodo, but now he's a Sith Lord, mastered lightsaber combat, created a new lightsaber which hasn't been seen before, received Nadd's teachings, Sadow's amulet, Sadow's scrolls, and all that stuff.

perhaps, perhaps.

It's Yoda>Vodo=>Mace>Ulic

No. It's Vodo>Mace>Yoda.

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
It's Yoda>Vodo=>Mace>Ulic

Could you clairfy what that means? Lol. I get Yoda > Vodo, but the whole "=> Mace > Ulic"?

I don't even know what "=>" is (maybe equal to/possibly greater than?), and if you were saying Yoda > Vodo = Mace > Ulic then you'd be wrong, considering Ulic > Vodo.

And GM, what are you talking about? Vodo > Mace > Yoda? Where'd you come up with that?

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
No. It's Vodo>Mace>Yoda.
LMAO

Mokoto, what are you talking about? Vodo>Exar>Ulic.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Could you clairfy what that means? Lol. I get Yoda > Vodo, but the whole "=> Mace > Ulic"?

I don't even know what "=>" is (maybe equal to/possibly greater than?), and if you were saying Yoda > Vodo = Mace > Ulic then you'd be wrong, considering Ulic > Vodo.

And GM, what are you talking about? Vodo > Mace > Yoda? Where'd you come up with that?

Where did you get the Ulic >Vodo

It's close, but Vodo is stronger than them both.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
It's close, but Vodo is stronger than them both.

Well if Exar has one saber Blade than Yes But anyway Vodo Wins. Or Yoda comes and saves Mace and kills Vodo

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Mokoto, what are you talking about? Vodo>Exar>Ulic.

What...the...hell?

Do my eyes deceive me?

Anyways, did you miss the part in TOTJ where Exar tooled Vodo? I'll fill you in on the end:

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7968/vodokunduelph6.th.jpg

Pssst. In-case you can't understand what that picture means - it means Exar Kun > Vodo. If you're arguing that Ulic isn't as good as Vodo, that's pretty illogical. Almost as illogical as saying Vodo > Kun when he already wiped the floor with Vodo.

Ulic stalemated Kun, and this is Kun after he received Nadd's teachings, along with Sadow's amulet, and scrolls:

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8053/ulickunmastersin7.th.jpg

Oh, and while Ulic was cut off from the Force, he was able to hold off Sylvar. You know - Sylvar - the pissed off Jedi Knight. And yeah, just to let you in on a secret, the Force increases proficiency with a lightsaber.

Also given he was described as a master of the lightsaber, and the fact that he was the only one out of his Jedi party who withstood Ommin's attack:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6339/energyulicsh0.th.jpg

And on top of that decapitated Warb Null (?) with a swift blow. Warb was the reason we see Cay with a mechanical arm btw:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1715/ulickillsoz6.th.jpg

This is all when he was a Jedi Knight, since then he's grown far more powerful. Basically just a recap, but anyways: he's stalemated a Kun who was at least above or equal to Vodo at that current time (when Kun/Ulic dueled), has a Sith amulet as well that is considered "deadly" and knocked Nomi and Cay on the ground, became a master lightsaber duelist, and was considered the biggest threat before Kun.

Now, tell me, is Vodo really stronger than Ulic? Ulic actually stalemated Kun. Vodo just...died.



See above.



If Exar had one blade he'd still defeat Vodo.

I dunno...

Vodo got tooled by Exar Kun.

It means Vodo is stronger.

Vodo comfortably has this.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Vodo comfortably has this.

"Comfortably"? Ahem, but excuse me - why don't you make a valid argument other than your simple assertion.

Where on earth are people getting the idea of someone as worthless as Vodo coming anywhere close to Mace?

I am a big Mace Windu fan, but he hasn't got this.
Vodo's dueling skills were incredible: he was arguably a greater dueler than Exar Kun, who was able to stalemate Ulic, who was able to stalemate a very powerful jedi knight while cut off from the force and while years out of practice.
He was also very strong in the force: he knew of the force blocking technique and while he had not mastered it, was very proficient with it and he was able to alter his staff via the force so it could withstand a lightsaber.
He trained Exar Kun who was incredibly strong, and was probably the strongest jedi of his era - an incredibly martial era.

WHAT?! The guy had two fights, both of which he LOST. Mace was one of the best best JEdi duelists, what, ever? With Vaapad, plus his ability and sheer physical strength, plus force abilities...oh, and that era wasn't martial, nomore than the PT, I'm getting tired of hearing that, when it's factual that the PT era was stronger. And last I checked, Torr Snappit could 'alter his staff', it's nothing special and I wonder WHY most Jedi don't do it...possibly because they see the absurdity of fighting with a stick.

And Exar's excellence was nothing to do with Vodo

It was martial. There were numbers of conflicts, the jedi wore battle armour and jedi were thought of as warriors more than peacekeepers. The pt era was the golden age of the jedi, as in relative peace. The same order where Niman, the diplomat's form was mostly used.

And Exar as a jedi was still very powerful, due to Vodo's teaching methods. So was Sylvar. Crado? Not so much, although he wasn't bad.

No more conflicts than the PT and I see Vodo in homespun rags, same as Oss...and Arca, Cay, Sylvar...no, not much armor.

And Crado not so bad? Ok, Crado was pathetic...and no, the PT era was called the Golden Age...meaning peak of power and ability

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
I am a big Mace Windu fan, but he hasn't got this.

Apparently you have no clue what you are talking about (as seems to be the case recently; putting Odan above Vodo), but I can't wait to read the rest...



Proof? Considering he was bested by a padawan Kun to an extent:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/4431/padawankunxx4.th.jpg



I'm guessing you can't see. Well, here you go just click on this picture and it *should* open your blind, blind eyes:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2525/vodokundueltl3.th.jpg

Yes, he's "arguably a greater dueler than Exar Kun"; regardless that Exar Kun already toyed with and destroyed Vodo as seen above.



Who, in turn, as I've argued is already better than Vodo. For the record, Ulic > Vodo as I already proved above.



You just copied my argument about Ulic and applied it to Vodo. WTF?



Sadly, as we've seen on two occasions - it has been broken. Again, none of these esteemed skills saved him (nor Odan who was a master of the technique) against the power of Exar Kun.



Exar Kun was the strongest of his era. Period.

EDIT:



So was Sylvar? Oh, you mean this Sylvar:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9079/sylvarfailsyv5.th.jpg

Seems a flick of the wrist from Exar Kun is all it takes to take down Sylvar. Very powerful indeed.

And Ulic being able to even defend against Sylvar for that long doesn't speak volumes for Sylvar. At all. Considering she was tapping into the Darkside and had the Force. Just so you know, the Force increases proficiency in saber dueling as well. So that only speaks well for Ulic; it doesn't work both ways.

Also may I remind you that it wasn't Vodo that made Kun into what he is, but Nadd's and the Ancient Sith's (Sadow's) teachings. Sure Vodo helped a bit, but Kun would have never gotten to where it was if it wasn't for the Ancient Sith.

Now, I suggest you quit mimicking IKC's arguments (because that's what you are doing), and get real. But since you seem to enjoy IKC's debating so much, I'll provide a nice little quote from him that sums up my response and your argument...

"None of these ridiculous assertions are supported by the comic, . You're a liar."