Rots Obi and Mace vs. Rots Anakin and Siddious
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Kaos sebaceous
I searched and didnt find anything
Setting:siddious's little room there as shown in mace siddious duel
i hope this thread isnt much of a failure
force,sabers,pretty much anything goes
Darth_Glentract
Well, Mace would likely put Sidious on the floor again and kill him while Obi-wan fights Anakin and eventually defeats him. Obi-wan and Mace win. However, in a different setting, say, the Senate Chamber, they'd lose.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, Mace would likely put Sidious on the floor again and kill him while Obi-wan fights Anakin and eventually defeats him. Obi-wan and Mace win. However, in a different setting, say, the Senate Chamber, they'd lose.
You're forgetting the fact that Obiwan isn't better than ANakin. In that one particular fight he was smarter than Anakin and got the higher ground. I highly doubt Obiwan would win against Anakin on more than a few occasions.
Prodigal Knight
Wrong, technically Anakin is better than Obi-Wan. However, Obi-Wan knows all of Anakin's moves and is more relaxed and calm than Anakin. In addition, Anakin's anger will make him make a mistake. That's how Obi-Wan survived Mustafar. It'll just be like that.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Wrong, technically Anakin is better than Obi-Wan. However, Obi-Wan knows all of Anakin's moves and is more relaxed and calm than Anakin. In addition, Anakin's anger will make him make a mistake. That's how Obi-Wan survived Mustafar. It'll just be like that.
Oh really? Well then tell me smartass, what happens when they fight in an open field? On even ground, Obiwan won't be able to get the advantage, and on even ground Anakin wouldn't have to try anything stupid.
darthsith19
Sidious > Mace
Anakin > Kenobi
Yes, Mace beat Sidious in a saber duel but Sidious could likely have still defeated Mace with the Force, imo. Anakin would normally beat Kenobi, he just f*cked up in ROTS when they fought. This time their fighting on flat ground so Anakin will win (cause there's no high ground for Kenobi).
Or else Sidious pwns Kenobi badly while Anakin and Mace duel, then Sidious joins Anakin and Mace gets pwnd.
Escape81
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, Mace would likely put Sidious on the floor again and kill him while Obi-wan fights Anakin and eventually defeats him. Obi-wan and Mace win. However, in a different setting, say, the Senate Chamber, they'd lose.
Mm-hmm.
Obi-Wan vs. Sidious. Sidious owns him.
Anakin vs. Mace. Anakin holds Mace off 'til Sidious comes over, and they own him.
Darth Subjekt
Also Anakin was extremely mad about the Padme situation and that was a special case. He wouldn't always be that mad. You forget he just turned, and was pissed about Padme and he didn't really want to be doing what he was doing, but he realised that he'd done too much to go back. In any other situation he'd tool kenobi.
Prodigal Knight
Anakin will do something arrogant and foolhardy. Remember, this is ROTS Anakin who believes he the strongest Jedi ever. Obi-Wan will handle him for at least five minutes before he is rescued.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Anakin will do something arrogant and foolhardy. Remember, this is ROTS Anakin who believes he the strongest Jedi ever. Obi-Wan will handle him for at least five minutes before he is rescued.
Glad you brought logic into an argument for once... Oh wait.
Prodigal Knight
However, the main problem is Sidious vs. Mace. It depends how this duel goes. When Mace killed Sidious, was Sidious trying or what? If Mace can defeat Sidious, then he can help Obi slay Anakin.
Prodigal Knight
Yes, again I have used logic in an argument. Just like every thread I reply to.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Yes, again I have used logic in an argument. Just like every thread I reply to.
Re-read your argument.
Prodigal Knight
Yeah, what's wrong jackass?
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Anakin will do something arrogant and foolhardy. Remember, this is ROTS Anakin who believes he the strongest Jedi ever. Obi-Wan will handle him for at least five minutes before he is rescued.
Prodigal Knight
And...?
In the Mustafar duel, Anakin and Obi-Wan spent at least three minutes fighting on a flat surface before Obi-Wan jumped onto the balance beam above the lava. This was almost as long as Mace and Sidious fighting.
It depends can Mace kill Sidious or Sidious to Mace.
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
And...?
In the Mustafar duel, Anakin and Obi-Wan spent at least three minutes fighting on a flat surface before Obi-Wan jumped onto the balance beam above the lava. This was almost as long as Mace and Sidious fighting.
It depends can Mace kill Sidious or Sidious to Mace.
You're missing the point. Anakin was going to lose had they continued on the flat surface. He was getting kicks and punches in.. Thats why Obiwan Jumped.
Prodigal Knight
Wow, Anakin was going to lose...eh?
Prodigal Knight
Yes, duh. However, I am talking about how long Obi-Wan will last. This will be enough time to judge the winner of Sidious vs. Mace.
Escape81
Or, Anakin takes on Mace long enough for Sidious to curbstomp Obi-Wan.
Darth Subjekt
this is surely possible. I think some of you really underestimate how powerful Anakin really was. There was hardly anyone in ROTS that could touch him power wise. Now of course Yoda and Mace have honed their skills for longer periods of time, but at that time, Anakin was the most powerful. Do you really think had GL started from ep1 and went forward, that things would have gone the same? If Anakin didn't have to get his Vader suit, do you think it would have played out the same? I've often wondered that. But anyway, Anakin is definitely good enough to hold off Mace til Sidious rapes OB1. Then it's lights out for Mace. Either way you set this up, I see the Sith winning.
EDIT:

I haven't heard curbstomp in a while...it struck me funny.

Blax X
Penis. Big, floppey, donkey penis.

Kadesh
you seem to forget mace has vaapad and shatterpoint. If mace could beat sidious he surely can beat anakin and then mace and obi wan will defeat sidious.
And if you talk about aggresively attacking mace windu, then you would be a fool, Sidious was really really good lightsaber duelist but lost due to mace shatterpoint or the suprised kick to his face, I dont see anakin beating mace at all when he goes apeshit trying to beat his opponent into a submission or when mace has far more experience than anakin
Blax X
Yes, the sacred boot to the face.
Kadesh
mace and obi wan take this, mace would beat anakin, sidious would fry obi wan, then its Mace Vs Sidious.
Again mace shatterpoint takes this, He beat sidious in rots comfortably. I dont see why he will lose here, maybe this time he takes out his sacred ding dong and shakes it for sidious
Darth Subjekt
well, if you read my post, you would notice that i didn't say that Anakin would beat him, i said hold him off long enough for Sidious to kill OB1 and join the fight. And Mace isn't as good in ROTS as he was during the CW. And again, i think alot of people underestimate Anakin and his abilities. Just because Mace used Vapaad doesn't make him invincible, i say there is a chance that Anakin could beat him, i just didn't say that in my last post.
Prodigal Knight
It depends. Mace Windu would want to go take on Sidious because he knows he can outclass Skywalker. Or Obi-Wan might rush over to Sidious becuz he doesn't want to fight Ani, but then Kenobi is smarter than that.
General G
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
It depends. Mace Windu would want to go take on Sidious because he knows he can outclass Skywalker. Or Obi-Wan might rush over to Sidious becuz he doesn't want to fight Ani, but then Kenobi is smarter than that.
I wouldn't say the Kenobi was smarter than that, he tried to get Yoda to allow him to take on Sidious, and Yoda to take on Anakin, so Obi would probably go after Sidious so that he won't have to fight his former apprentice.
I would say that Sidious owns Kenobi with Kenobi's own stupidity while Anakin holds his ground with Mace then Sidious and Anakin destroy Mace. Sith win.
Escape81
Originally posted by Kadesh
you seem to forget mace has vaapad and shatterpoint. If mace could beat sidious he surely can beat anakin and then mace and obi wan will defeat sidious.
And if you talk about aggresively attacking mace windu, then you would be a fool, Sidious was really really good lightsaber duelist but lost due to mace shatterpoint or the suprised kick to his face, I dont see anakin beating mace at all when he goes apeshit trying to beat his opponent into a submission or when mace has far more experience than anakin
No. I know the skills of Vaapad and Shatterpoint very well.
However, it is a fact that Sidious and Mace are equals in saber combat, and only Shatterpoint gave him the edge.
Unfortunately, Kenobi won't last ten seconds against Sidious. Anakin, unfortunately, is on the same level as Sidious, Yoda, and Mace in lightsaber combat, and could hold Mace off.
Then, Sidious comes over, and Mace is WTFpwned.
RocasAtoll
Originally posted by Escape81
No. I know the skills of Vaapad and Shatterpoint very well.
However, it is a fact that Sidious and Mace are equals in saber combat, and only Shatterpoint gave him the edge.
Unfortunately, Kenobi won't last ten seconds against Sidious. Anakin, unfortunately, is on the same level as Sidious, Yoda, and Mace in lightsaber combat, and could hold Mace off.
Then, Sidious comes over, and Mace is WTFpwned.
Matters:
Is Obi/Mace smart enough to piss off Anakin?
Escape81
Simply pissing Anakin off doesn't exactly guarentee a victory. Take a look at Dooku, lol. He pissed Anakin off, and got beheaded for his efforts.
In my eyes, Anakin and Vader are different, as are Dooku and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan has a strong connection with Anakin/Vader. And, remember, Vader thought Obi-Wan turned Padme against him.
And, given that Obi-Wan had no issue attacking Count Dooku with Anakin at his side, I see no reason why he wouldn't try the same thing with Sidious - especially if it means that he wouldn't have to fight Anakin.
Then, he dies, about ten seconds later.
Then, Sidious runs over and destroys Mace with assistance from Anakin.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Escape81
No. I know the skills of Vaapad and Shatterpoint very well.
However, it is a fact that Sidious and Mace are equals in saber combat, and only Shatterpoint gave him the edge.
Unfortunately, Kenobi won't last ten seconds against Sidious. Anakin, unfortunately, is on the same level as Sidious, Yoda, and Mace in lightsaber combat, and could hold Mace off.
Then, Sidious comes over, and Mace is WTFpwned. How sure are you it wont be mace vs sidious while anakin vs obi wan? That way they win, but if its Mace vs anakin and sid vs obi, thenMace team wins. Mace windu has the Edge over anakin for this,
Sidious wins IF tha match starts differently like mace vs sid and anakin vs obi which of cource obi wan gets killed as you said while mace and sidious continue, and Anakin helps Sid to overpower and pwn macewindu.
But if its mace vs anakin and obi vs sidious, obi wan getskilled again, And mace would kill anakin due to shatterpoint and i doubt anakin ever knew of mace suprise attacks, Then its mace windu vs Sidious and the match will end up like the one in ROTS
Darth Subjekt
Thats complete arrogance to just assume that Mace will just run through Anakin at all let alone as fast as Sidiuos would run through OB1. There's not that big of a difference between Mace and Anakin skill wise. Anakin still has his youth on his side and more physical power. Vapaad is a strong form, but I'm sure it has its weaknesses. No way that even if mace does beat Anakin it would be as fast as Sidious kills OB1, so Sidious still is able to run over and help, provided Anakin even needs the help.
((The_Anomaly))
Yes, it is well within Anakin's power to hold off Mace for a long long time. Mace would win more times then not in a 1 vs. 1 fight, but Anakin and Mace are prolly 50/50 in terms of saber combat. Vaapad and Shatterpoint give Mace a slight edge against Anakin, but not enough to beat him in any short amount of time. Anakin is just far too skilled and naturally powerful. Dooku is a prime example of that.
jollyjim311
Sidious shoots off lightning at Mace and Obi, and uses Anakin as a meatshield. Sidious takes out Kenobi before Mace can ever reach Sidious, and , together, Sidious and Anakin Beat Mace quickly.
Escape81
I could offer the same question to you. How are you sure that it isn't going to be Obi-Wan vs. Sidious and Mace vs. Anakin? Unless the thread creator specifies who fights whom, it is simple speculation on the debators' parts.
This is true. In a pure lightsaber confrontation, Anakin would be easily capable of holding off Mace for the time being. Obi-Wan won't last any significant length of time against Sidious - and then he will be able to help Anakin obliterate Mace.
I respect and have argued for Mace's abilities many times.
Unfortunately, what you just said made absolute no sense. All right, if Anakin kills Obi-Wan, you said that Mace will kill Anakin. Really? How will he do that when Sidious is all over him? Vaapad and Shatterpoint are both highly useful and highly handy - but not somuch that Mace can take on Anakin and Sidious (at the same time - especially) and expect to win.
No. If Anakin kills Obi-Wan, then Mace gets destroyed by Anakin and Sidious, quite comfortably.
And, of course, you are factoring in merely a lightsaber battle. Mace and Sidious are confirmed "equals" in lightsaber combat as of RotS. In fact, if you watch the fight closely, Sidious dominated a considerable part of the fight - forcing the normally offensive Mace to go on the defensive. However, Mace's skills with Vaapad's ability to circumvent dark side energy, as well as being highly accomplished in Shatterpoint allowed him to disarm Palpatine.
This is but one instance. You forget to factor in that Sidious is also more powerful than Mace in the Force. That could help cancel out Vaapad and Shatterpoint. Especially when Sidious is an expert at manipulating the environment to whatever advantage that he can.
Prodigal Knight
I concur that Anakin and Sidious would win. If you remember, Obi-Wan tried to convince Yoda to let him confront Sidious because he doesn't have the heart to face his former apprentice. In this scenario, I doubt Obi-Wan would go for Anakin because he wouldn't like to face against him.
Mace Windu would like to fight Sidious, but then he can easily have the desire to fight Anakin because Anakin's arrogance seems to get on Mace's nerves and Windu would gladly prove Anakin that he is not the best.
Of course, if this scenario happened, Obi-Wan dies and Mace gets butchered.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Escape81
I could offer the same question to you. How are you sure that it isn't going to be Obi-Wan vs. Sidious and Mace vs. Anakin? Unless the thread creator specifies who fights whom, it is simple speculation on the debators' parts.
Hmm good one, some good arguements too. But you assume that it is mace vs sidious and obi vs anakin.
Originally posted by Escape81
This is true. In a pure lightsaber confrontation, Anakin would be easily capable of holding off Mace for the time being. Obi-Wan won't last any significant length of time against Sidious - and then he will be able to help Anakin obliterate Mace.
Not that i know off, i do not believe that anakin would expect mace windus shatterpoint. Mace would kill anakin, i dont know how true it is when i read this on wookie and wiki, Against another dark side user, vaapad reflects ones own hate and anger against him, The same could happen to anakin. However, Obi wan is the weak link here, either one would kill him and then mace would get squashed
Originally posted by Escape81
Unfortunately, what you just said made absolute no sense. All right, if Anakin kills Obi-Wan, you said that Mace will kill Anakin. Really? How will he do that when Sidious is all over him? Vaapad and Shatterpoint are both highly useful and highly handy - but not somuch that Mace can take on Anakin and Sidious (at the same time - especially) and expect to win. No, what i was saying is IF anakin gets killed before sidious slaysobi wan, 2 on 1 on mace would beat him
Originally posted by Escape81
No. If Anakin kills Obi-Wan, then Mace gets destroyed by Anakin and Sidious, quite comfortably.
. Thats because you are assuming anakins opponent is obi wan while sidious opponent is mace, Of cource mace gets killed.
Honestly i dont know how this match started but its pointless to argue about this.
Originally posted by Escape81
And, of course, you are factoring in merely a lightsaber battle. Mace and Sidious are confirmed "equals" in lightsaber combat as of RotS. In fact, if you watch the fight closely, Sidious dominated a considerable part of the fight - forcing the normally offensive Mace to go on the defensive. However, Mace's skills with Vaapad's ability to circumvent dark side energy, as well as being highly accomplished in Shatterpoint allowed him to disarm Palpatine.
. Agreed, but palpatine didnt exactly dominate mace, mace parried the attacks, so is it safe to say that dooku got dominated by anakin and obi wan? i dont think so, well maybe
Originally posted by Escape81
This is but one instance. You forget to factor in that Sidious is also more powerful than Mace in the Force. That could help cancel out Vaapad and Shatterpoint. Especially when Sidious is an expert at manipulating the environment to whatever advantage that he can. Well this is a lightsaber match, not a force fight. The only killing power that i know mace has is force crush, which he demonstrated on grievious.
Palpatine has lightning, grip, and alot of other pimp powers, But normally fights start in a duel. The only known force fighter that i know of is nihilus and jorus c boath because nihilus relies on drain and jorus on lightning.
Great arguements escape

Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by Kaos sebaceous
I searched and didnt find anything
Setting:siddious's little room there as shown in mace siddious duel
i hope this thread isnt much of a failure
force,sabers,pretty much anything goes
Well here it looks like the thread starter said anything goes.
and also you're missing the point. For one, you're assuming it would be Mace vs Anakin, just as we are assuming otherwise. Secondly, the point we're getting at is even though we believe that Anakin has a good shot against Mace, that even if he does lose, he will last alot longer than OB1 will last against Sidious. THATS our point, or at least the main point I'm trying to convey. OB1 goes down hard and fast against Sidious, while Anakin holds off Mace. I really don't see Mace pwning Anakin at all. Mace was beaten by Dooku and well you saw what Anakin did to him...
Kadesh
trying to apply the a > b > c? i dont think thats good enough,
Firstly even if its anakin vs obiwan look at how long they fought in ROTS 10-15 mins, and look at the fight between mace and sidious, it lasted like what 5 mins?
Already anakin is not as strong as sidious in ROTS and mace was able to take down sidious due to his shatterpoint and suprise attack, What makes you think anakin would ever beat mace? At his full potential yes he surely will, but this is ROTS anakin,
And im sure mace underestimated dooku during their fight, if you are going to use A > B > C then listen to this, dooku beat mace, and mace = to sidious, does that mean dooku is better than sidious? No, same between anakin and mace. Just because anakin > dooku and dooku > mace does not mean anakin is above mace in force powers or lightsaber combat, Dooku i believed died because he underestimated anakin and mocked him during the saber lock. As a jedi master, windu already had a power which is disputed as a dark side power, force crush which he can use against anakin, He did it to grievious, But since this is lightsaber battle, that does not count
Darth Subjekt
negative. If you know me, you'll see I don't use the A>B>C argument ever...I'm using that as an example of Anakin's power and skill. And now you're using the ABC argument while denouncing it before and afterwards. You say that since Anakin fought OB1 for 12 min, and that he's not as strong as Sidious, and Mace beat Sidious in under 5 minutes, that Mace can beat Anakin??? Talk about hypocrisy...that sure sounds like an A>B>C argument to me.
Where did it ever indicate that mace took Dooku lightly? It doesn't. Dooku was the apprentice of the most powerful Jedi of that time, Yoda, and to the best of my knowledge, Dooku was still a Jedi and wouldn't be out to kill Mace so you cant say that Mace didn't have the opportunity to reevaluate his stand on Dooku's skill and adjust accordingly. Mace was bested because he's simply not the best. Vapaad and shatterpoint alone do not guarantee Mace victory against Anakin.
Also, force mastery and overall force power are not the same thing. Mace has higher force mastery, but Anakin is the most powerful at this time. And if they are equal in saber skills (although using different styles) then Anakin's raw power would level the playing field with Mace's saber technique given edge. No matter how you cut it, the Sith take this.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
negative. If you know me, you'll see I don't use the A>B>C argument ever...I'm using that as an example of Anakin's power and skill. And now you're using the ABC argument while denouncing it before and afterwards. You say that since Anakin fought OB1 for 12 min, and that he's not as strong as Sidious, and Mace beat Sidious in under 5 minutes, that Mace can beat Anakin??? Talk about hypocrisy...that sure sounds like an A>B>C argument to me.
No im not, look what you just saidm "o dooku beat mace and anakin beat dooku" That was what you just said. And no, i was saying mace windu would finish sidious earlier before anakin kills obi wan,
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Where did it ever indicate that mace took Dooku lightly? It doesn't. Dooku was the apprentice of the most powerful Jedi of that time, Yoda, and to the best of my knowledge, Dooku was still a Jedi and wouldn't be out to kill Mace so you cant say that Mace didn't have the opportunity to reevaluate his stand on Dooku's skill and adjust accordingly. Mace was bested because he's simply not the best. Vapaad and shatterpoint alone do not guarantee Mace victory against Anakin.
Also, force mastery and overall force power are not the same thing. Mace has higher force mastery, but Anakin is the most powerful at this time. And if they are equal in saber skills (although using different styles) then Anakin's raw power would level the playing field with Mace's saber technique given edge. No matter how you cut it, the Sith take this. Since when raw powers gives you victory? Mace is calm in a fight, anakin goes apeshit trying to beat the sh!t out of his opponents, Firstly Anakins raw power does not garentee a stand still between mace and anakin, hell sidious is even better than anakin in lightsaber combat and got taken down due to shatterpoint.And not only that, Vaapad reflects a users hate against him giving the vaapad wielder a huge advantage in the battle situation. Yes i sure am using the A>B>C method, This is because it is alot more reasonable than the one you put up, which is dooku beat mace, and anakin beat dooku, And during ROTS anakin being more powerful than mace windu? Hell he doesnt even know force crush, an ability which would kill you for sure, and anakin cant even push the force outwards to block this attack.As for the saber duel, Just see how powerful mace can really get
See this picture of mace windu? i believe its very similar to what luke did in the unifying force. Quite similar to luke when he "looked like he was waving 20 lightsabers"
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6821/swirlingvzzzug3.jpg
now read this
"The power of Vaapad is simple: it is a channel for one's inner darkness; and it is a reflecting device. With strict control, a person's own emotions and inner darkness can be changed into a weapon of the light. Vaapad is able to take the hatred, anger and rage of the opponent and reflect it back at him. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used Palpatine's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power. Vaapad is at once a form of lightsaber combat, a state of mind, and an actual tangible power. To use it required great mastery, discipline and, above all else, purity of heart and spirit. Vaapad users are intense, focused, and introverted; there are even signs of pent-up hostility in them."
And read this, anakins form is form V
Form VII demands the emotional and physical intensity of Form V, but it much more effectively controls it. If mastered, Form VII results in extraordinary power.
Never ever underestimate vaapad, especially from mace windu whom i consider either the greatest lightsaber duelist or if not one of the greatest
Did you even know what i was saying eariler? i said the fight between anakin and obiwan was extremely long, while the fight with sidious was short? get it? Therefore since mace beat sidious earlier, he can double team anakin with obi wan.
Darth Subjekt
OK, you cant use the ABC and then say no one else can, thats just fuking retarded and ignorant. Sidious and Anakin have different strengths and different weaknesses, so what might work optimally against Sidious, might not work as well against Anakin. And yes, according to GL, "At the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful, he just lacks the experience that other Jedi masters have, and is ultimately why he loses to OB1. He just doesn't have the experience."
And ABC's are ABC's, one isn't better than the other. Its typically bullshit anyway, but if you want to use it in regards to a technique, its even more flimsy of an argument. I didn't say that Anakin's power would allow him to kill windu did i? No, i said that his raw power would help even the odds to Mace's Vapaad. And Anakin going ape-shit seems to work quite well for him doesn't it? Except that one instance when OB1 got him, which was an isolated incident being that he was more emotional than he normally would be. He wasnt that angry at the temple.
And yea i do get what you were saying. But do you understand that the fights were in two separate locations under two separate circumstances? Get it? No two fights would be the same. Its it'd be stupid to argue that it would. And again, if Anakin wasn't as mad as he was the first time he fought OB1, he would kill him alot faster. I believe you even said that in another thread, i may be wrong, but i doubt it. And Sidious wouldn't have to worry about converting Anakin and would probably spend little time trying to duel Mace when he could just kill him quickly with the force.
Darth Subjekt
Also, Mace wasn't moving quite that fast in the movie. In the movie he's somewhat slow, not much faster than Vader in ESB and ROTJ. So canically speaking, Anakin has a speed advantage. I know Vapaad uses that against the opponent, but it surely doesn't make you invincible.
Kadesh
Kill mace quickly with the force? mace can do the same with crush, And in many many instances, sidious resorts to the force ONLY when he gets disarmed. Examples, ROTS mace vs sidious, yoda vs sidious, DE, luke vs Sidious, he all resorted to force powers after he gets disarmed,
And no, raw power from anakin CANNOT contend with mace experiences of vaapad, Mace would know every single of anakins move, I assume that for one to master the juyo form then the vaapad, one has to master all the other forms and study its aspects.
Again vaapad is something anakin has never been against, And did you read the passage i provided? Vaapad would reflect anakins own raw power against him.
Lastly the picture i uploaded, like i said, it bears similarity with lukes so called "20 lightsabers" I read the book, and compared to the picture, its very similar.Not to forget that mace kills droids with his bare hands alone,
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Also, Mace wasn't moving quite that fast in the movie. In the movie he's somewhat slow, not much faster than Vader in ESB and ROTJ. So canically speaking, Anakin has a speed advantage. I know Vapaad uses that against the opponent, but it surely doesn't make you invincible. He was fast in AOTC battle of geonosis and fast in the clone wars cartoons and his speed is remarkable in the pic i uploaded, And he beat sidious who was even faster than both him and anakin
Council#13
Originally posted by Kaos sebaceous
I searched and didnt find anything
Setting:siddious's little room there as shown in mace siddious duel
i hope this thread isnt much of a failure
force,sabers,pretty much anything goes
Seeing as Mace already beat Sidious, he'd win again.
Obi-Wan and Anakin are basically the same, although it's difficult to determine who is the better: Obi-Wan is calm and sees things clearly, while Anakin is wild and reckless. Sheer power overcame methodical elegance, as can be seen in the Dooku-Anakin duel, but calmness and clarity overcame brute force, seen in the Obi-Wan-Anakin duel. However, Obi-Wan defeated Anakin by gaining the high ground. The duel could have gone on for an undetermined amount of time. On even grounding, they'll be going at each other like crazy. Eventually, Mace will beat Sidious and they (Mace and Kenobi) would move in to destroy Anakin.
Kadesh
same thing, calm ness took over agressiveness in the mace vs sidious fight
Council#13
Was Mace the calm one? I always thought that Vapaad was tapping into your darkside, causing it to be wild and untamed. Sort of.
Kadesh
Not to forget Vaapad is a VERY unpredictable form, and yes, mace was remaining calm and yet being able to tap into the darkside and not fall into its trap.
Darth Subjekt
Mace was hardly calm, as thats not what Vapaad is. It uses the hate and anger of the user as well as the opponent, and allows the user to enjoy the fight. And ROTS is obviously not AOTS or the CW cartoon, which by USh, is not canon. With his aging came slower speed. Period.
Kadesh
NOT canon? wtf is that, why are some people so stuck up on using movie only? It has already happened and already recorded, whats done is done.
Mace was hardly calm? if so we would have seen him get his ass kicked by sidious, same thing happened to anakin, he was not calm and got his legs hacked off.
Firstly anakin would not know how to predict vaapad since its a very unpredictable form, The amount of suprise attacks a vaapad user can pull out
Council#13
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Mace was hardly calm, as thats not what Vapaad is. It uses the hate and anger of the user as well as the opponent, and allows the user to enjoy the fight. And ROTS is obviously not AOTS or the CW cartoon, which by USh, is not canon. With his aging came slower speed. Period.
Vapaad might be wild, but the user has to be calm and controlled, or else they'll go fully into the Dark Side. Also, they can't use all their hate and anger, or else that would also be going into the Dark Side. Whose aging caused slower speed?
Kadesh
Originally posted by Council#13
. Whose aging caused slower speed?
No one
Darth Subjekt
Mace's. If hes faster in AOTC when he was younger, and then slower in ROTS when he got older, then aging has slowed him down.
And Kadesh, movies are the highest form of canon, less gl's spoken words. Just as Vader, If mace is slower in the movies than he is in the CW cartoons, or anyother EU source, then guess what, hes slower. Every form is unpredictable. If you knew every move your opponent would do, then there would be no point fighting. And a surprise attack is not kicking someone in the face while fighting, and surprise attack is if say Anakin and Mace were talking, and out of nowhere Sidious attacks Mace out of "surprise". You can say that if two people are in a street fight and they have only been punching an then one guy grapples him to the ground that it was a surprise attack...thats part of fighting. Mace didn't go in there and be like, "Palps, we gon' fight now muthafukka! but we only gon' use sabers, nothing else. And when i lay my vengeance down upon thee....blah blah blah." No, they were both fighting for their lives, and a kick was called for. But by no means was it a "surprise attack".
Council, thanks for the clarification on Vapaad. But you all have to admit, what works on one person doesn't mean it will always work on another person....right?
kamikz
Wait, what stops Sidious from taking Mace out with the force? It is the small room huh? Kinda makes it into a saber battle? Unless people think Mace can actually beat Sidious in a straight out fight.......
King Adas
Well is Sidious even that much stronger than Mace with the force? Is there anything spectacular he'd be able to pull off? Mace clearly has no problem with his lightning, so the question is whether he can take down his force defences with TK or something else, imo he can't.
Darth Subjekt
Well Yoda is higher than Mace, and Sidious is what, 20% higher than Yoda...so yea Sidious is stronger than Mace in the force. While I agree that MAce beast Sidious in ROTS, i sincerely believe that Mace wouldn't beat him most of the time. Different circumstances, different outcome. I think that just had to play out like that and so it did.
Escape81
I didn't assume, Kadesh. Who fights whom wasn't confirmed by the thread creator. However, logic dictates that my version of the pairs fighting would make sense, as Obi-Wan initially refused to fight Anakin until Yoda told him that Sidious would have been too powerful for him to beat.
In this fight, Windu has no knowledge of Palpatine's abilities, and would be unable to say: "you might wanna go after Anakin, 'cause Sidious'll nail your ass."
This is what you don't seem to be understanding. Anakin is on Sidious's level, Mace's level, Yoda's level, and Dooku's level in terms of lightsaber abilities. You said it yourself. They always duel with sabers first. Anakin will easily be capable of holding Windu at bay (notice how I didn't say "defeat" - though that is possible).
Sidious will kill Obi-Wan, and then Mace will be slaughtered.
Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. You don't seem to understand that Anakin > Obi-Wan. It will take longer for Mace to kill Anakin (if he can in a swordfight) than it will for Sidious to kill Obi-Wan.
No, it isn't. The logical fight seems to be Obi-Wan vs. Sidious and Mace vs. Anakin.
I said "dominated the fight". Sidious put Mace (who is an offensive person) on the defensive. It means that he was in control of the fight, initially, and through most of its duration.
This is saber only? If not, anything goes.
Palpatine > Mace in Force powers. Yoda = Palpatine in force powers, and the both of them are above Mace.
Darth Sexy
Escape, I think you shouldn't imply that Anakin would have a real chance at winning against Mace. If Sidious couldn't do it, Anakin can't do it either, unless you would think Anakin is superior to Sidious.
kamikz
Originally posted by King Adas
Well is Sidious even that much stronger than Mace with the force? Is there anything spectacular he'd be able to pull off? Mace clearly has no problem with his lightning, so the question is whether he can take down his force defences with TK or something else, imo he can't.
No problem with his lightning? When Sidious was in a bad position, frying himself and after he had fought a battle and had a lightsaber to his throat, he still caused Mace to struggle as hell, and even caused him to drop one hand at the end of the scene. Hadn't Sidious stopped, Mace would have been left to parry it with one hand, which he would not have made.
I think it's pretty safe to assume that if Sidious used lightning on equal ground, Mace would not make it....
Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, I think you shouldn't imply that Anakin would have a real chance at winning against Mace. If Sidious couldn't do it, Anakin can't do it either, unless you would think Anakin is superior to Sidious.
I think we're having another situation of you not understanding me correctly. I'll do my best to clear it up.
We are talking about a lightsaber fight. Sidious didn't touch a lightsaber in thirteen years, and was able to equal Mace in swordsmanship. He lost in a single instance, and that is credited only to Mace's considerable skills with Shatterpoint.
Imagine if he fought against Mace like he did against Yoda. I hate to tell you, but Palpatine is equal to Yoda in Force powers, and though the margin between the Palpatine and Yoda and Dooku and Mace isn't by a lot - the Force difference is enough that Sidious could win in an all out fight.
Anakin is on the same level as Yoda, Sidious, Mace, and Dooku in swordsmanship.
So, yes. I hate to tell you this, but he does have a chance (and a sizeable one, at that) to beat Mace in a swordfight.
Kadesh
No, you forgot vaapad refelcted palpatines one hate, speed and power against him,
What makes you everything anakins mastery of form V contends with vaapad? alredy form 7 requires the intensity of form V.
And against palpatin and mace, like i keep saying, Palpatine strikes with force attacks only when he gets disarmed. He proved this twice in ROTS and once in DE
And no, anakin will never beat mace is a saber duel, why? Because Vaapad is an unpredictable form, its something palpatine has never seen before and its something anakin has never been up against,
Originally posted by kamikz
No problem with his lightning? When Sidious was in a bad position, frying himself and after he had fought a battle and had a lightsaber to his throat, he still caused Mace to struggle as hell, and even caused him to drop one hand at the end of the scene. Hadn't Sidious stopped, Mace would have been left to parry it with one hand, which he would not have made.
I think it's pretty safe to assume that if Sidious used lightning on equal ground, Mace would not make it....
He can reflect it back with vaapad
Prodigal Knight
However, couldn't Sidious have sparred with Dooku while he's at his secret hideout in Coruscant (you see them at the end of AOTC).
Dooku must have known of Sidius's power otherwise he would have challenged him.
Kadesh
This is what you don't seem to be understanding. Anakin is on Sidious's level, Mace's level, Yoda's level, and Dooku's level in terms of lightsaber abilities. You said it yourself. They always duel with sabers first. Anakin will easily be capable of holding Windu at bay (notice how I didn't say "defeat" - though that is possible). -escape 81
No, it will not be possible for anakin to ever defeat mace windu,
Sidious is a far greater lightsaber duelist that anakin and yet even faster still, Mace vaapad and shatterpoint took sidious down, i dont see why it can take anakin down after a while.
What are you trying to say is that anakin can last for a while on mace is it? then sidious kills obi wan then they double team him? ok i got your point.
Not to forget i remember i read somewhere, "Anakin is one of the greatest swordsman in the jedi order, second to only mace and yoda". No i cant provide you with the source since i cant remember where it came from and no i am NOT making this up i swear
King Adas
Originally posted by kamikz
No problem with his lightning?
By saying this, I am just stating that he is able to defend against Sidious' lightning, don't take everything I say too literally.
He was damn close to Mace. I'd say he was in a pretty good position.
He was frying himself because Mace was reflecting his lightning back onto him, I really don't see your point here, it seems that you are trying to make an argument that Sidious was in an overall bad position in the particular instance that Mace was actually able to defend against his lightning, I really don't see why you posted this in that particular context.
Two things wrong with this point.
1. Mace had also just fought a battle.
2. Palpatine was using the force to attack Mace with the lightning, Mace was using his physical attributes (strength) to defend against it (blocking it with his saber). Now the fact that they had just thought a battle would actually work in Palpatine's favour in this case, as the battle really didn't take a toll on Palpatine's force constitution (the variable that would factor in on whether Palpatine would be successful in his lightning attack against Mace) with the exception of a few force assisted manoeuvres, force speed etc., whereas the battle took a huge toll on Mace's physical energy, and that is the variable (physical strength) that factored in on his success with defending against Palpatine's onslaught of sith lightning. In other words, the battle affected Mace more than it did Palpatine in that particular regard.
True, but it wasn't directly next to his throat, and Palpatine clearly had enough room to pull off the attack, I see no reason why he would've needed more room to pull it off as effective, and therefor see no reason why it would have factored in on the potency of Palpatine's attack in a negative way.
Yes, but Mace was still able to defend against it.
True, but the point is, Sidious did stop, and that was because Mace was skilled enough to not only defend against the lightning, but also redirect it back at Palpatine, and Palpatine was forced to stop otherwise the lightning may have killed him.
However, I see no reason how Sidious was at any disadvantage when he lightning attacked Mace, and therefor see no reason why the lightning would be any more effective on equal ground.
Darth Sexiest
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh really? Well then tell me smartass, what happens when they fight in an open field? On even ground, Obiwan won't be able to get the advantage, and on even ground Anakin wouldn't have to try anything stupid.
LOL!!!
Heh, don't worry my apprentice, I got this one...
Hey Prodigal Knight....
Darth Sexiest
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Wrong, technically Anakin is better than Obi-Wan. However, Obi-Wan knows all of Anakin's moves and is more relaxed and calm than Anakin. In addition, Anakin's anger will make him make a mistake. That's how Obi-Wan survived Mustafar. It'll just be like that.
Your WRONG.
Anakin is better than Obi-Wan, and about "Obi-Wan knowing all of Anakin's moves..."
Anakin knows all of Obi-Wan's moves .
Double edged sword, remember?
De de de...
That "Knowing all his moves thing" is crap.
Obi-Wan won only because of Anakin's mind being in a crippled state.
If Anakin had been clear and focused like how he had been while fighting Dooku, then Obi-Wan would have been doing the backstroke in lava.
Speaking of which, If Anakin is fighting Sidious and Mace is still alive, that means he hasn't "killed" Padme yet.
That also means he hasn't killed younglings yet either.
So mentally, he is still capable of much focus.
So, when he duels Obi-Wan in this scenario, given the fact he'll be calm and only think that Obi-Wan and Mace are trying to assassinate senator Palpatine, and the fact that Obi-Wan won't be able to find any high ground, not that it will help him anyway...
Obi-Wan will get trashed by Anakin.
BTW, This is sort of the reason Anakin beat Mace Windu in the RotS Video game.
In normal terms, Mace has about the power and skill of Dooku, perhaps slightly higher.
But, using Vapaad, he can absorb the Force energy that gradually permeates off of a Dark sider and either use it to fuel him through a fight, or re-direct it back into the opponant.
Of course Shatterpoint can also be used...
My point is, regularly, (Vader)Anakin would get defeated in a short duel by Mace, who would feed of his Dark Force energy and win out against him.
In the game however, Anakin fights Mace after witnessing "an assassination attempt".
Since he hasn't gone to the Dark side yet, he isen't using anger or the Dark side. He fights determinedly against Mace, in his mind trying to save the life of an innocent man.
Because of this, Mace cannot use Vapaad against/on him.
There is no Dark side energy resonating from Anakin to collect and utilise. Also, Shatterpoint cannot be used since Anakin is not utilising the Dark Side.
So Mace, who for all good purposes was basicly another "Dooku" in that duel and was left with his regular abilities.
And, like Dooku, after putting up a good but short fight, was eventually worn down, and out-techniqued.
Just wanted to point that out, since it confused people when the game came out...

Escape81
@Kadesh
No, I didn't forget. I remember the fight very well, I might add.
This doesn't change the fact that Palpatine dominated half of the fight (again, despite not touching it for thirteen years), and only in the final moments did Mace gain the upper hand.
You can say: "Mace could reflect and redirect blah blah blah", but it is a process - otherwise he would have won the fight fairly quickly and fairly easily, wouldn't you say?
If anything, though Vaapad is highly effective and unpredictable, it took a while to build up - as proven against Palpatine.
Hate to tell ya, who thought that Djem So would be able to "contend" with Makashi, the most effective form of dueling for lightsaber combat. And Anakin bested the master of Makashi - Dooku.
You can't say what can or can't contend with Vaapad. Afterall, Yoda is capable of beating Mace - and he uses Ataru - which Count Dooku says is a very "inferior" form.
What's your point?
Mace kicked him in the face and knocked him to the ground. Palpatine began to overpower Mace from an inferior position, and stopped by trying to manipulate Anakin. Lucas confirmed that Palpatine "faked" being weak.
Dude, don't tell me that Mace will always win against Anakin. You don't know, so don't pretend that you are an authority.
See the above.
Escape81
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
However, couldn't Sidious have sparred with Dooku while he's at his secret hideout in Coruscant (you see them at the end of AOTC).
Dooku must have known of Sidius's power otherwise he would have challenged him.
You should read Labyrinth of Evil. It details that Sidious sought out Dooku (who intended to seek Sidious out - to kill him), "and instead of a battle to the death, there was a conversation".
Dooku never fought with Sidious.
Then, it goes on to say how, unlike Maul, there was no need to engage in endless hours of lightsaber instruction, as Dooku was already an extremely proficient duelist.
Chances are, they never sparred at all. Dooku was already experienced (hell, he's even older than Palpatine), and the only thing he really would need instruction on is Palpatine's schemes as well as Dark Side techniques.
He likely feared Sidious due to his connection and grasp of the Dark Side, as well as his intellect. There's nothing that indicates that they ever sparred.
And, if you recall, Sidious's lightsaber was buried in a statue in his office.
@King Adas:
Sidious was lying on the floor, with Mace towering over him. That is a bad position. And, Lucas confirmed that Sidious was "faking" when he ceased the lightning attack (and the novelization confirmed that Sidious's pain fed the lightning in power - and Mace says "Anakin, he's too strong for me!"

. Meaning, from a much more vulnerable position - and despite being blasted in the face - he still had more to give, whereas Mace was on the verge of being impaled by his own saber.
Sidious > Mace in the Force.
King Adas
Didn't he have another one?
Blax X
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/tapeta009.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/Windu-2-2.jpg
Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by King Adas
True, but the point is, Sidious did stop, and that was because Mace was skilled enough to not only defend against the lightning, but also redirect it back at Palpatine, and Palpatine was forced to stop otherwise the lightning may have killed him.
However, I see no reason how Sidious was at any disadvantage when he lightning attacked Mace, and therefor see no reason why the lightning would be any more effective on equal ground.
Like Escape said, he stopped to play the sympathy role on Anakin. Had he continued and killed Mace himself, Anakin would booted his ass out the window. Thats why he was saying, "I'm too weak, weak." one minute, and then as soon as Anakin Ginsued Mace's arm, he screams, "POWER!! UNLIMITED POWER!!!" and flung Mace out the window.
OK, so he cant do a force push and then when Mace is picking himself up off the ground, ZAP...Mace is deep fried.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Escape81
@Kadesh
No, I didn't forget. I remember the fight very well, I might add.
This doesn't change the fact that Palpatine dominated half of the fight (again, despite not touching it for thirteen years), and only in the final moments did Mace gain the upper hand.
No sidious dominated part of the fight, after the anakin arrives cut scene it was mace who dominated the fight
Originally posted by Escape81
You can say: "Mace could reflect and redirect blah blah blah", but it is a process - otherwise he would have won the fight fairly quickly and fairly easily, wouldn't you say?
It takes time to build up as you said
Originally posted by Escape81
If anything, though Vaapad is highly effective and unpredictable, it took a while to build up - as proven against Palpatine.
agreed
Originally posted by Escape81
Hate to tell ya, who thought that Djem So would be able to "contend" with Makashi, the most effective form of dueling for lightsaber combat. And Anakin bested the master of Makashi - Dooku.
That is because makashi is weak against djem so.
Mace would know whats coming for him because as a master of form VII i think he needed to learn all the other forms before learning this.
And for a master to "create" a form, it seems just as good as palpatine inventing his force powers
Originally posted by Escape81
You can't say what can or can't contend with Vaapad. Afterall, Yoda is capable of beating Mace - and he uses Ataru - which Count Dooku says is a very "inferior" form. Both of them would know whats coming, mace and yoda surely have been in sparring matchs, both would know each others tactics
Originally posted by Escape81
Mace kicked him in the face and knocked him to the ground. Palpatine began to overpower Mace from an inferior position, and stopped by trying to manipulate Anakin. Lucas confirmed that Palpatine "faked" being weak.
I would like to know where you got that from
Originally posted by Escape81
Dude, don't tell me that Mace will always win against Anakin. You don't know, so don't pretend that you are an authority.
And dont tell me that anakin would beat mace either, you also would not know correct? And since when am i acting like i have the authority?
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Kadesh
No sidious dominated part of the fight, after the anakin arrives cut scene it was mace who dominated the fight
When did Sidious dominate ANY part of the fight with Mace? Did you watch the same fight?
Escape never said Anakin would win, he said Anakin has a chance and I suppose he's right. Will he win? No.. Does he have a chance? yes..
Kadesh
Sigh escape was saying palpatine dominated the fight before anakins cut scene. And yes i did watch the same fight
Anyways i doubt that on a 1v1 match that anakin can hold off mace
Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Kadesh
Sigh escape was saying palpatine dominated the fight before anakins cut scene. And yes i did watch the same fight
Anyways i doubt that on a 1v1 match that anakin can hold off mace
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Sidious did dispatch of the 3 B level Jedi, but he's no match for Mace and his shatterpoint, and neither is Anakin. Do they have a chance to win in a saber duel? Sure.
Kadesh
Well sure they do. Its the same with any 1, Its your planning and thinking. i still believe sidious can beat mace if he comes up with a plan, Anakin is wild and recklass and seeks to only beat his opponents up, He was far better that obi wan and still lost because he didnt stop and think. He just did it without thinking of the consequences.
I believe mace knows anakin is wild and recklass and im sure mace as a jedi master would use that to his advantage, sidious would do the same, so would vader.
Darth Sexiest
I guess people agree now that Anakin in this scenario would trash Obi-Wan without too much difficulty.
now the question stands.
Sidious is still probally fighting Mace.
Now Anakin is helping him. who wins this?
Kadesh
sigh, sidious team then, since DS arguements really make sense that obi wan would get trashed by anakin,
Mace would beat either one in a 1v1 match though
Darth Sexiest
True...
And thank you.

Kadesh
Your welcome, dammit already this match is unbalanced, because of obi wan mace is gonna get his ass handed to him.
They should be more like mace and yoda vs sidious and anakin, Now THATS a real match up
But still in saber combat i see mace stronger than the both of them, i mean come on he kills droids with his bare hands, i can provide a pic if you want me to and a pic to also show how badass mace is at saber
anyways, match is over, winner = palpatine and anakin
thanks to obi wans
Darth Sexiest
Ooo
Good point.

Kadesh
Well since obi wan goes down, mace is going to struggle fighting too of them, versus 2 great lightsaber duelists.
Even if its mace and yoda vs sidious, sidious would be in big trouble.
Darth Subjekt
So you're saying that even if it was lightside Anakin that Mace would pwn him? Firstly, Mace wouldn't pwn him at all. Hate to tell ya. And destroying droids with your bare hands has NOTHING to do with saber skills. Second, you people are relying too much on Anakin being angry and reckless. He was only like that due to the whole ordeal with Padme, and realizing that he had done too much to go back. He knew what he was doing was wrong, but could do nothing to fix it. (As said in the commentary as it shows him crying on Mustafar, for those who want to try to argue it.) Mace had a type of resentment towards Anakin for all his abilities eclipsing his. The fact that Anakin started at 9 years old (too old according to Mace.), and was ahead of Mace by 24, pissed him off. (GL states that Mace resents Anakin's superior abilities, not word for word, but thats the gist of it.), so Anakin obviously has something Mace doesn't. Don't just assume Mace will run right through Anakin at all. And what Escape was talking about as far as Sidious dominating part of the fight, is that he was pressing the attack on Mace, making him back up. And yes, Mace knocked him down, but Sidious was indeed FAKING being hurt and weak, as confirmed by Lucas. While Yoda is better than Sidious at dueling, I believe it was confirmed that Sidious is 20% more powerful than Yoda...so don't think Yoda would run through him either if he were in the fight. Look at how effortlessly Sidious was throwing pods at Yoda, and when it was Yoda's turn, he had to stop and concentrate very hard just to throw one back at him...
Escape81
Very nice.
But, no, lol. Sidious (at least as of RotS) isn't 20% more powerful than Yoda. Hell no, lol. He's got 20% more of Vader's potential, when Vader is put into the suit.
Darth Subjekt
hmm, i thought I heard that somewhere before the movie came out, lol...i want to double check now for the hell of it. lol. And for those of you who are obviously dumb, if someone has a chance to win a fight, then there is absolutely NO way that you can outright state that Mace WILL win. Thats a contradiction upon itself. Great argument.
Kadesh
Show me the quote or post me the link where it says george lucas stated sidious faked it, I dont deny him faking when he is being hurt after getting knocked down. The why try to kill mace?
Kadesh
Not to forget in AOTC anakin was recklass. And i have read somewhere i cant remember where but it said "anakin was one of the greatest lightsaber duelist in the jedi order, secondl only to mace and yoda"
Secondly, anakin would not to how to contend with vaapad, he has never fought some 1 who has mastered vaapad before and thus i doubt he knows of shatterpoint
Mider999
i still say palpatine let windu win if windu isnt as strong as yoda why did palpatine stalemate him in force and saber attacks, sidious should fight windu kill him, then if obi won still alive he'll just hit him with lighting and kill him.
Kadesh
sidious was trying to kill windu, and when he got kicked, didnt you hear him yelping and crawling? anakin was not there yet, if sidious really wanted to fake it he would have waited till anakin arrived then get kicked
Escape81
I never said Sidious faked the loss. But Lucas confirmed on the RotS commentary that Sidious pretended to be weak when he gave up the lightning assault.
Meaning, Sidious - from an extremely pathetic position, and being blasted in the face - still had more Force energies and reserves and was on the verge of overpowering Mace, despite the fact.
Darth Sexy
Be clear escape, Sidious FAILED in his initial lightning attempt. After, and ONLY after this fact, did he start pretending.
Kadesh
oo sorry for misreading it escape, i just woke up anyways its 11 am here.
Yes he did fake getting weak when anakin arrived
Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Be clear escape, Sidious FAILED in his initial lightning attempt. After, and ONLY after this fact, did he start pretending.
No.
Watch the scene again, or re-read the novelization (which goes into more detail).
When Windu kicked him, Sidious fell to the floor and scrambled to the windowsill. He was on his ass with Windu towering over him. Palpatine unleashed a barrage of Force lightning - which Windu reflected. He used Vaapad to create a circuit that spat the Force lightning back out to Sidious - striking him in the face.
However (!)
Sidious's pain fed the intensity of the lightning. The sheer force of the energy began to shove Windu's lightsaber back into his face. The novelization goes into such detail that Windu was choking on the ozone of the saber itself.
Lucas confirmed that when Palpatine stopped the lightning assault, he was "pretending to be weak".
Black and white, my friend. Sidious could have kept on going. Yes, he would've been in pain - but that would've done nothing but to feed the intensity of the lightning himself.
Why did he stop?
The answer is simple: his overall objective was to force Anakin's hand against the Jedi.
Advent
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Look at how effortlessly Sidious was throwing pods at Yoda, and when it was Yoda's turn, he had to stop and concentrate very hard just to throw one back at him...
You do realize that it would be harder to project something upwards rather than downwards, right? Even with a slope.
For example, it's much easier to lift a washer and toss it down a hill than it is for the person at the bottom to firstly catch it and throw it back up with probably as much speed as the person who initially tossed the washer down. This is the easiest explanation I could come up with without resorting to all that speed/velocity/acceleration/etc bullshit, lol.
Basically, it would be similar in principle to peddling a bicycle downhill versus uphill. It requires far more energy to do what Yoda did than what Sidious had done, so I wouldn't necessarily make this as a "point".
kamikz
Though agreed about the "Yoda catching then throwing it back at him", Sidious did toss about 3 pods at once upwards, then tossed them back at Yoda, all with ease and very quickly. Yoda's feat about catching Sidious pod is as impressive though....
Council#13
Originally posted by kamikz
Wait, what stops Sidious from taking Mace out with the force? It is the small room huh? Kinda makes it into a saber battle? Unless people think Mace can actually beat Sidious in a straight out fight.......
Well, the Vapaad probably moves so fast that Sidious won't really have time to access the Force against Mace. Saw how they did it in ROTS? Huh? Huh? winknudge
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well Yoda is higher than Mace, and Sidious is what, 20% higher than Yoda...so yea Sidious is stronger than Mace in the force. While I agree that MAce beast Sidious in ROTS, i sincerely believe that Mace wouldn't beat him most of the time. Different circumstances, different outcome. I think that just had to play out like that and so it did.
Where do we get these precentages? Isn't it just enough to say that Yoda is obviously stronger in the Force than Mace, and Sidious beat Yoda?
King Adas
When was this may I ask?
Council#13
Of course he was pretending. His blast that killed Mace was waaayyy powerful
xxXAcStylesXxx
Why are we underestimating Anakin against Mace Windu? I'd say they are close but Anakin using the DS is stronger. Anakin was according to the ROTS novel
"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest, the strongest."
And we have the fact that he utterly tooled Dooku in 8 seconds made a complete joke of one the most powerful Jedi in there 25k history. Anakin is a beast and if he's using his controlled rage against Mace, not his blind idiotic fury like he did against Obi Wan, Mace will get owned.
Kadesh
obi wan won against anakin because anakin was recklass, and Mace beat sidious whom is even stronger than anakin.
Firstly anakin whom is in the dark side, doesnt think before he acts, that is why he lost his legs, and secondly, if this is dark side anakin, Vaapad would reflect anakins speed and own raw power against him, and with shatterpoint and greater experience, he mops anakin on the floor, Not to forget Vaapad is totally unpredictable and anakin has never fought against a vaapad practitionar
Mider999
if anakin could defeat windu i would think he'd have owned obi won in seconds not a prolonged fight, and its already been stated by lucas that palpatine let windu win, which is logical he would have sensed anakin comming and thus let anakin decide to kill windu in order to drive anakin totally to the darkside. Some say oh how would he know anakin is comming thats just a silly question, palpatine spoke to his emperors hands from VERY big distences and he even sensed vader was in trouble when he fell into the lava pitt and said we have to go get him.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Mider999
if anakin could defeat windu i would think he'd have owned obi won in seconds not a prolonged fight, and its already been stated by lucas that palpatine let windu win, which is logical he would have sensed anakin comming and thus let anakin decide to kill windu in order to drive anakin totally to the darkside. Some say oh how would he know anakin is comming thats just a silly question, palpatine spoke to his emperors hands from VERY big distences and he even sensed vader was in trouble when he fell into the lava pitt and said we have to go get him. Stop lying, GL never stated that sidious let windu win, gl stated that sidious only PRETEND to be weak AFTER he got struck by his own lightning.
And no, anakin is no match for windu at all, Vaapad would kill him
And anakin was more powerful than obi wan and yet got defeated by him, Reason? he does not think before acting, Mace would use that to his advantage and anakin will never know how to predict vaapad, Also vaapad would reflect anakins own strength against him.
Come on people even claim anakin >>> Eu vader which is total bull crap. Anakin is recklass, while vader is patient and calm allowing him to kill his enemies with ease
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
obi wan won against anakin because anakin was recklass, and Mace beat sidious whom is even stronger than anakin.
Firstly anakin whom is in the dark side, doesnt think before he acts, that is why he lost his legs, and secondly, if this is dark side anakin, Vaapad would reflect anakins speed and own raw power against him, and with shatterpoint and greater experience, he mops anakin on the floor, Not to forget Vaapad is totally unpredictable and anakin has never fought against a vaapad practitionar
Prove that ROTS Sidious is a better lightsaber duelsit then Anakin, oh thats right he's not.
No, thats Ankain in his "RWARRRR YOU DONT NOOO MAW PAWA!" That is the Anakin that is shitty powerful but shitty, Anakin CONTROLING his rage and using it to fuel is own power is damn near unstoppable, we see what that Anakin did to Dooku, and Lighsaber master one of the most powerful beings to exist in the galaxy, and Anakin made a JOKE of him, completely destroyed Dooku.
People in duels don't "think" they use the mucle memory of the form and let the force guide most of there moves, we saw what happens when people start to think, Bane vs Kas'im pt2 Bane starts to try and think ahead and all the possibilties that could arise and that leads to him getiing tooled around.
Vaapad, if it could truley redirect power and speed, why did Mace get tooled around by Dooku seemingly effortlessly?
Again Anakin was stated to be the strongest, fastest most powerful Jedi of his generation and perhaps EVER, Mace will not beat him.
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
And anakin was more powerful than obi wan and yet got defeated by him, Reason? he does not think before acting, Mace would use that to his advantage and anakin will never know how to predict vaapad, Also vaapad would reflect anakins own strength against him.
Think about what you just said:
Anakin doesn't think before he acts in any fight according to you so why in the **** would he try and predict what Vaapad can do?
Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by Advent
You do realize that it would be harder to project something upwards rather than downwards, right? Even with a slope.
For example, it's much easier to lift a washer and toss it down a hill than it is for the person at the bottom to firstly catch it and throw it back up with probably as much speed as the person who initially tossed the washer down. This is the easiest explanation I could come up with without resorting to all that speed/velocity/acceleration/etc bullshit, lol.
Basically, it would be similar in principle to peddling a bicycle downhill versus uphill. It requires far more energy to do what Yoda did than what Sidious had done, so I wouldn't necessarily make this as a "point".
so what would the velocity be on a pod traveling at a 15 degree slope? lol.
Nah but, not really trying to argumentative, but that wouldn't apply here. The pods have nothing to do with their physical muscles, its all in their minds. Remember what Yoda told Luke? "No different. Only different in your mind." And Sidious had to bring them up before he threw them down, and was doing it much faster. The only reason it would be harder to push a washer back up a hill, is because of gravity and physical strength. We're talking about people that jump the length of a foot ball field (defying gravity) and who hold, crush, throw, and lift things, sometimes rather large things, with their minds.
kamikz
Originally posted by Council#13
Well, the Vapaad probably moves so fast that Sidious won't really have time to access the Force against Mace. Saw how they did it in ROTS? Huh? Huh? winknudge
Where do we get these precentages? Isn't it just enough to say that Yoda is obviously stronger in the Force than Mace, and Sidious beat Yoda?
The Vapaad? You mean the animal?
Mace style might be pretty fast, but his reactions aren't instant. And lifting his hand for a force push is faster than for Windu to run forward to make a lightsaber duel....
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Prove that ROTS Sidious is a better lightsaber duelsit then Anakin, oh thats right he's not. Yes he is, he tooled 3 jedi masters and by DE he could move faster than the eye can see.
Sidious knows, juyo,makashi,ataru,djem. all anakin knows is djem so, And juyo > djem so
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, thats Ankain in his "RWARRRR YOU DONT NOOO MAW PAWA!" That is the Anakin that is shitty powerful but shitty, Anakin CONTROLING his rage and using it to fuel is own power is damn near unstoppable, we see what that Anakin did to Dooku, and Lighsaber master one of the most powerful beings to exist in the galaxy, and Anakin made a JOKE of him, completely destroyed Dooku. . That is because makashi sucks when contending to djem so, and anakins used alot of brute force
And you forgot that vaapad reflects anakins own raw power rage and speed against him, no way anakin can beat mace windu on that one
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
People in duels don't "think" they use the mucle memory of the form and let the force guide most of there moves, we saw what happens when people start to think, Bane vs Kas'im pt2 Bane starts to try and think ahead and all the possibilties that could arise and that leads to him getiing tooled around. . Before battle?
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Vaapad, if it could truley redirect power and speed, why did Mace get tooled around by Dooku seemingly effortlessly?
. I dont know, he did beat sidious whom is even stronger than dooku, And dooku is using makashi, it is not an offensive technique, it parries the blows from its opponents and he doesnt aggresively attack mace windu. So vaapad in that fight is useless, on Anakins match, anakin is using brute power to kill mace, thats when vaapad and shatterpoint really works
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Again Anakin was stated to be the strongest, fastest most powerful Jedi of his generation and perhaps EVER, Mace will not beat him. Try again, anakin would be the most powerful IF he had not sustained injuries on mustafar, the anakin in ROTS is nothing but a punk.
Yes,mace will beat him.
GL already stated anakin skywalker is 80% of sidious. and mace windu beat sidious with vaapad, a form which even one of the strongest sith lords could not predict, And no way is anakin stronger than yoda
read this
Vaapad was also described as "a superconducting loop," with the user on one end and the opponent on the other. It was able to take the powers of the opponent and reflect it back at them. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used the Chancellor's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power. Also, when Palpatine unleashed his Force lightning on Mace, the Jedi was able to use his lightsaber, with the power of Vaapad, to reflect the lightning back at him. However, because Palpatine was probably a master of the Sith variant of Juyo as well, he fed the power of Force lightning with his own pain, thus intensified the energetic attack despite his suffering.
Escape81
Lucas said that Darth Vader (in his suit) has 80% of the potential that Palpatine has.
Anakin's not as powerful as Palpatine as of RotS - but he had the potential to be twice as strong.
Kadesh
yes and acstyles claimed that ROTS anakin before the suit is stronger than mace and stronger than every one
xxXAcStylesXxx
So what. Why is KMC is on this "teh more forms you know you can pwn anyone!" SInce when does Juyo > Djem SO, and please no Wiki KOTOR 2 BS, Note we are not talking about DE Sidious, but regardless, I doubt he too could beat Anakin unless you wanna argue, DE Luke > Anakin. Anakin is physically stronger and overall better with a saber then Sidious. In a pure Lightsaber duel Anakin would beat anyone save for NJO and up Luke.
Ok because the perfect form for dealing with Lightsaber to Lightsaber combat all of a sudden sucks?
"Dookus decades of combat experience are irrelevant, his mastery of swordplay useless...Even his knowledge of the force had become a joke."
Anakin turned Dooku into a joke. Note, Dooku was containing and even defending against Anakins Djem So, so don't bring this Form X > Form Y BS
Wanna prove that up with a quote OTHER then Wiki? How can something reflect physical power back? Illogical.
During.
And Dooku could probably, no would beat Sidious in a straight Lightsaber duel. Sidious is NOT the Be ALL end all of Lightsaber dueling, he was beaten by Yoda in a straight duel and he was beaten by Mace in a straight duel, Dooku contended and was never disarmed (like Palpy was) by Yoda like Palpy was, and Dooku tooled Mace. He doesn't aggressively attack? He pushes him back to a pit, meaning he went on the attack you = wrong.
BULL SHIT. PROOF. PLEASE. ROTS novel states that at the point of his duel with Dooku, Anakin was "THE MOST POWERFUL JEDI OF HIS GENERATION, THE STRONGEST, THE FASTEST." Its still canon whether you choose to accept it or not.
That was Post Suit Vader Numb Nuts.
Please don't post crap from Wiki, without sources, I want actual quotes from novels, comics, creators, like I have provided not some user summary
xxXAcStylesXxx
Note: I NEVER said he was OVERALL stronger then the likes of Sidious and Yoda, but in a straight lightsaber duel and RAW power Anakin wins all the time, and the ROTS novel backs me up. Overall Anakin is better then Mace.
Kadesh
prove to me anakin can beat every body else.
And a quote from the novel contradicts DIRECTLY of the NEC saying, "yoda could not defeat The MOST POWERFUL sith lord of his time" and the nec came out long after ROTS
anakin hardly has any offensive force powers, mace has force crush, And again there is shatterpoint, which made sidious crawling, sidious in rots is even stronger than anakin, anakin coukld have been 2x of sidious
xxXAcStylesXxx
Read above genius. I SAID STRAIGHT LIGHTSBAER DUEL.
Kadesh
Vaapad was also described as "a superconducting loop," with the user on one end and the opponent on the other. It was able to take the powers of the opponent and reflect it back at them. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used the Chancellor's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power. Also, when Palpatine unleashed his Force lightning on Mace, the Jedi was able to use his lightsaber, with the power of Vaapad, to reflect the lightning back at him. However, because Palpatine was probably a master of the Sith variant of Juyo as well, he fed the power of Force lightning with his own pain, thus intensified the energetic attack despite his suffering.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Kadesh
Vaapad was also described as "a superconducting loop," with the user on one end and the opponent on the other. It was able to take the powers of the opponent and reflect it back at them. In his fight with Palpatine, Mace Windu used the Chancellor's own speed and hatred against him, reflecting it back against the Sith Lord and using it as his own power. Also, when Palpatine unleashed his Force lightning on Mace, the Jedi was able to use his lightsaber, with the power of Vaapad, to reflect the lightning back at him. However, because Palpatine was probably a master of the Sith variant of Juyo as well, he fed the power of Force lightning with his own pain, thus intensified the energetic attack despite his suffering.
this obviously came from the novel shatterpoint
and it also came from star wars insider. point shattered
xxXAcStylesXxx
STOP POSTING WIKI, LEARN TO READ, I SAID I WANT ACTUAL NOVEL AND COMIC OR CREATOR QUOTES NOT USER SUMMARIES.
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
STOP POSTING WIKI, LEARN TO READ, I SAID I WANT ACTUAL NOVEL AND COMIC OR CREATOR QUOTES NOT USER SUMMARIES. IT CAME FROM SHATTERPOINT NOVEL AND STAR WARS INSIDER!!!!
Stop argueing with canon, fanboy of anakin, you claim anakin > sidious which is not true in a strait out lightsaber fight,
vaders djem so > anakins djem so , so that mean vader is teh uber dueler?
xxXAcStylesXxx
Why the **** would Shatterpoint talk about ROTS? DUMBASS.
xxXAcStylesXxx
Direct Insider quote please. Oh thats right you can't since its Wiki
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Why the **** would Shatterpoint talk about ROTS? DUMBASS. Since when shatterpoint talks about ROTS? it talks about VAAPAD and star wars insider summarises VAAPAD, got you owned again
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
vaders djem so > anakins djem so , so that mean vader is teh uber dueler?
What? THere the same person retard. Vader DID NOT use Djem So, he used a custom style to fit the restrictions of his suit ROVD states this.
Kadesh
Vader custamised DJEM so WITH other forms, read RODV again
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
Since when shatterpoint talks about ROTS? it talks about VAAPAD and star wars insider summarises VAAPAD, got you owned again
No, I didn't. You claimed that passage was from Shatterpoint, it clearly talks about ROTS, thus its not, Next you claim its from Insider with no actually quote, Using WIKI =/= CORRECT. Its logically impossible to reflcet physical attributes back. Use ur head silly.
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, I didn't. You claimed that passage was from Shatterpoint, it clearly talks about ROTS, thus its not, Next you claim its from Insider with no actually quote, Using WIKI =/= CORRECT. Its logically impossible to reflcet physical attributes back. Use ur head silly. It is totally silly to argue against canon. Then read star wars insider issue 62, look for the fightsaber category, it will hand you your ass
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
Vader custamised DJEM so WITH other forms, read RODV again
I just said it was a custom style,
Kadesh
if it is bull shit that some one typed in wiki then admin would have done something about it
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I just said it was a custom style, Yes and vader still uses djem so, just that it was custamised with other forms to compensate for his lack of agility. so what does that mean? Vaders blows are even stronger than anakins
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
It is totally silly to argue against canon. Then read star wars insider issue 62, look for the fightsaber category, it will hand you your ass
Question? Have you read, SW Insider 62? If so please post a direct quote, its on you to prove up genius, you aking me to prove your point is a logical fallacy, and ROTS novel states Anakin was the best, your arguing Canon.
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Question? Have you read, SW Insider 62? If so please post a direct quote, its on you to prove up genius, you aking me to prove your point is a logical fallacy, and ROTS novel states Anakin was the best, your arguing Canon. It is canon from the movie which states yoda > anakin, and that vaapad thing typed in wiki WAS FROM SOMEONE who read issue 62
NEC stated that sidious was more powerful and presuit vader
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes and vader still uses djem so, just that it was custamised with other forms to compensate for his lack of agility. so what does that mean? Vaders blows are even stronger than anakins
No, Vader himslef says all the power the suit grants him, He could do the same as Anakin with the force.
Kadesh
vaders physical strength alone is proven stronger than anakins, RODV mentioned "he enough strength to crush his saber hilt with ease"
Kadesh
and ill let Escape81 or DS own you, tired of argueing against a fanboy of anakin
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
It is canon from the movie which states yoda > anakin, and that vaapad thing typed in wiki WAS FROM SOMEONE who read issue 62
NEC stated that sidious was more powerful and presuit vader
Um prove up where in the movie it says from an narrator that says Yoda>Anakin in a lightsaber duel. LOL at your depending on a third party for your argument is hearsay prove up with a quote of shut the **** up. Again I said in a straight lightsaber duel not Overall. LEARN TO READ
And Insider 62 was publsihed a year or so before ROTS was ROTS > INSIDER 62. ANAKIN IS THE BEST.
Kadesh
sigh ill let some1 else own you because i dont have the sources about vaapad
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Kadesh
vaders physical strength alone is proven stronger than anakins, RODV mentioned "he enough strength to crush his saber hilt with ease"
And in that same breath he said he could lift a man clear over his head and toss him as Anakin, he said he could do all the things he could do as Vader as Anakin, and there will be no owning from anyone since Im right, calling me a fanboy doesn't save you from the fact your an idiot and a very shitty debater who depends on hearsay and has never actually seen the material in question.
Kadesh
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And in that same breath he said he could lift a man clear over his head and toss him as Anakin, he said he could do all the things he could do as Vader as Anakin, and there will be no owning from anyone since Im right, calling me a fanboy doesn't save you from the fact your an idiot and a very shitty debater who depends on hearsay and has never actually seen the material in question.
O? but vader has been shown to kill his opponents with his bare hands, killing a wild animal after his tie fighter crashes on some planet, snapping the neck of a jedi master during the purge, and snapping the neck of a rebel officer
Kadesh
Again the things from wikipedia or wookie are canon, who ever says they are not? Just because some one can freely edit them? wrong, the person in charge would do something there rather than let the page get vandalised
Darth Subjekt
Jesus Christ...the movie never stated that Yoda>>>Anakin, however, GEORGE LUCAS, ya know the guy who created Star Wars, said that at the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful Jedi, also this is backed up in the Novel as AcStyles has said MULTIPLE times. You are the one getting pwned here. You just keep rehashing the same garbage about vapaad and unpredictable moves, CW Mace killing droids with his hands (which has NOTHING to do with lightsaber combat or ROTS at ALL), and that you cant provide actual quotes. I cant provide the quotes from SWI#62, so I'm not mentioning it anymore. try again.
Council#13
Originally posted by kamikz
The Vapaad? You mean the animal?
Mace style might be pretty fast, but his reactions aren't instant. And lifting his hand for a force push is faster than for Windu to run forward to make a lightsaber duel....
There's an animal named Vapaad? shock
Once he raises his hand, he needs to concentrate on manipulating the Force, although that shouldn't be to hard, seeing as he's the Dark Lord of the Sith. Mace would probably be able to repel the attack with a Force Push of his own.
Kadesh
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Jesus Christ...the movie never stated that Yoda>>>Anakin, however, GEORGE LUCAS, ya know the guy who created Star Wars, said that at the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful Jedi, also this is backed up in the Novel as AcStyles has said MULTIPLE times. You are the one getting pwned here. You just keep rehashing the same garbage about vapaad and unpredictable moves, CW Mace killing droids with his hands (which has NOTHING to do with lightsaber combat or ROTS at ALL), and that you cant provide actual quotes. I cant provide the quotes from SWI#62, so I'm not mentioning it anymore. try again. That is all i need to hear, a confirmation from GL rather than the novel, and most powerful jedi? nono, sidious was stated by nec to be the strongest of his era, the quote "yoda could not defeat the most powerful sith lord". Maybe GL means jedi, not overall
And prove to me djem so > vaapad.
Darth Subjekt
OK well, a sith lord and a jedi knight are not the same thing now are they? So saying that Anakin is the most powerful Jedi would no include Palps. And I'm not saying that Djem >Vapaad...forms in and of themselves do not pwn one another...its the practitioner of said forms. But you cant prove that Vapaad>Dejm so either...its all opinion that you're stating. YOU don't THINK that Anakin could predict his moves, YOU don't THINK that Anakin can overcome Mace. Everything your spouting is nothing but speculation. We all know what Vapaad is, and we all know who mace is...neither one of those factors, alone or coupled together, can GUARANTEE Mace victory over anyone, especially Anakin.
Escape81
There's nothing that indicates that, as of RotS, Anakin is "more powerful" than Yoda, Sidious, or Mace. He could give them a hell of a fight - especially in sheer swordsmanship.
But what separates him from Yoda and Sidious is Force mastery. His raw connection to the Force greatly exceeds theirs, but they know far more (and I do mean FAR more) techniques and abilities than he does, and they have mastered them.
In an all out fight, they'd kill him. Mace, too, but it'd be closer.
Darth Subjekt
What indicates it is Lucas' word. He said that Anakin was the most powerful, he just lacked experience. Doesn't matter what he lacks or what other people have mastered, he, according to his creator, is the most powerful jedi. Thats all i was saying...
Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
What indicates it is Lucas' word. He said that Anakin was the most powerful, he just lacked experience. Doesn't matter what he lacks or what other people have mastered, he, according to his creator, is the most powerful jedi. Thats all i was saying...
The novelization said that Anakin was the most powerful. And it was Anakin who said it.
Lucas said that, in RotS, only Mace and Yoda could compete with Palpatine - and Anakin could have - if he wasn't beaten on Mustafar, and allowed to reach his potential.
Sorry, man. Anakin's number four as of RotS.
xxXAcStylesXxx
Originally posted by Escape81
The novelization said that Anakin was the most powerful. And it was Anakin who said it.
Lucas said that, in RotS, only Mace and Yoda could compete with Palpatine - and Anakin could have - if he wasn't beaten on Mustafar, and allowed to reach his potential.
Sorry, man. Anakin's number four as of RotS.
No it wasn't, it was a narrator who says Anakin is the best for the billionth time
"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The strongest, the fastest."
And no I disagree Anakins number 3 in overall skill behind Yoda and Palpy, in the saber department he's number 1, Anakin is overall better then Mace Windu, Anakin is stronger in the force, Mace even admits this when he's trying to stop a column from falling with the force he says if he had the raw force power of Yoda or Skywalker he'd be able to lift it.
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