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Dooku, Sidious vs Obi, Mace, Kit
no rules

Hmmm. Sidious could pwn Obi-Wan and Kit while Mace and Dooku stalemate. Then Mace gets pwned.

OR

Dooku takes on Obi-Wan and Kit and wins with relative ease while Sidious fights Mace. Then Dooku helps Sidious and Mace gets pwned. Either way the sith win and Mace gets pwned.

Yup.

But WAIT! Fee Fi Fo Phum, I smell the blood of Fanboys. Come to demand worship for their Gods of Mace and Kenobi. Leading the way is a Noob, on his search for the Fisto Grail, the legendary cup that once bore the dentures of the happy Jedi, which he gave to Zett Jukassa shortly before his pwning by Palpatine.

Hail, Mighty Jedi!

Hahaha I actually lol'd. Especially the 'Fee Fi Fo Phum' bit.

Sidious and Dooku. Seriously.

Kenobi gets instantly tooled by Dooku while Sidious holds off Mace and kills Kit while doing so. (He did in ROTS, why not do it again?)

Dooku and Sidious team up on Mace and it's over. Sith win.

thev sith obviously take this one. If dooku can take down obi wan when he is fighting him and anankin together, he can surely do the same against obi and adi-mundi, who is considerablty weaker then anakin. If it was sidious, obviously he wins this. Then dooku and sidious just have to join in order to beat mace.

It says Kit, not Ki (even then the thread maker wouldn't leave it at just "Ki", but, you've still got the right outcome.

Originally posted by Rohangiga
Dooku, Sidious vs Obi, Mace, Kit
no rules

Well, Mace could take on Sidious, but Dooku would take down Obi-Wan and Kit. The Sith are taking this fight, but it'll be a hard fight.

Either:
a. Mace fights Sidious while Kenobi and Kit fight Dooku. Dooku wins, Mace defeats Sidious in a saber duel and then gets kileld in the Force duel.

or

b. Mace fights Dooku, Sidious pwns Obi and Kit, then he and Dooku together pwn Mace.


Either way, the Sith win.

Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Sidious and Dooku. Seriously.

Kenobi gets instantly tooled by Dooku while Sidious holds off Mace and kills Kit while doing so. (He did in ROTS, why not do it again?)

Dooku and Sidious team up on Mace and it's over. Sith win.

no! obi and and kit hold off dooku for a while, then mace kills sidious like in rots then all three of the take on dooku or even 2 if kit or obi dies

Originally posted by Rohangiga
no! obi and and kit hold off dooku for a while,

How the Hell will Obi-Wan and Fisto be able to hold off Dooku. A flick of Dooku's wrist sent Kenobi flying across the room in ROTS, there is nothing stopping him doing the same - except with more force. Not to mention that Kit is weaker than Kenobi anyway and uses friggin Form I. Dooku pwns them both with ease and helps Sidious beat Mace.

yea ur probably right

He doesn't "pwn them both with ease" as you put it, but he beats them, yes.

I agree that Mace is better with lightsaber then Sidious, but Sidious has better force powers, which he didnt use in his fight with Mace. Sidious is better then mace overall and he alone can defeat Mace, while Dooku takes dawn Obi-Wan and kit.
And for the record before someone starts to yell Sidious fanboy, i like Mace a lot more then Sidious,he is closly second for me , behind Dooku.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I agree that Mace is better with lightsaber then Sidious, but Sidious has better force powers, which he didnt use in his fight with Mace. Sidious is better then mace overall and he alone can defeat Mace, while Dooku takes dawn Obi-Wan and kit.
And for the record before someone starts to yell Sidious fanboy, i like Mace a lot more then Sidious,he is closly second for me , behind Dooku.

Its arguable that Mace is overall better then Sidious with a lightsaber. Mace can beat Sidious because of his style and the fact that Sidious is a darksider (which Mace is THE perfect person for fighting them). And Mace has his Shatterpoint ability, all of these lead to Sidious' defeat in saber combat against Mace, but overall (i.e. against other people) I don't think that Mace is a better saber duelist then Sidious, merely that he has all the weapons to fight darksiders. For instance, Anakin has a VERY VERY good chance of taking Mace in saber combat (before he becomes Vader), probably better then Sidious ever had against him. Plus, they're saber duel was not pwnage from Mace, Mace was sh!tting bricks for a bit, and the duel was close, despite all of Mace's weapons against darksiders. People who don't have those weapons would get "Kit Fisto-ed" by Sidious, who is still possibly a better saber duelist overall.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Its arguable that Mace is overall better then Sidious with a lightsaber. Mace can beat Sidious because of his style and the fact that Sidious is a darksider (which Mace is THE perfect person for fighting them). And Mace has his Shatterpoint ability, all of these lead to Sidious' defeat in saber combat against Mace, but overall (i.e. against other people) I don't think that Mace is a better saber duelist then Sidious, merely that he has all the weapons to fight darksiders. For instance, Anakin has a VERY VERY good chance of taking Mace in saber combat (before he becomes Vader), probably better then Sidious ever had against him. Plus, they're saber duel was not pwnage from Mace, Mace was sh!tting bricks for a bit, and the duel was close, despite all of Mace's weapons against darksiders. People who don't have those weapons would get "Kit Fisto-ed" by Sidious, who is still possibly a better saber duelist overall.

I would disagree, i would put Mace only below Anakin, Yoda and on pair with Dooku(Dooku just a little better) in lightsaber skills, while Sidious is the best in force powers, not stronger then yoda, but has more offensive powers.

And of course Anakin from ROTS can beat Mace, by this time he is already the beast lightsaber dualist.Not that im Anakin fan though.

Actually, the Dooku Vs. Mace lightsaber duel argument is very much the same as the Mace Sidious one. Dooku is a more "skilled" duelist, but Mace has the weapons (and especially the style) to beat Dooku in lightsaber combat. In the ROTS novel it states that Anakin's major advantage over Dooku was the power his strikes had, and the force in which he was fighting. In essence, he was pummeling Dooku into the ground with Djem so, which is a "powerhouse" form of lightsaber combat. However, Mace's Vaapad is stated to produce MORE kinetic energy then even Djem so, as such, Dooku would face the same problem with Mace as he did with Anakin. Add in Mace's Vaapad (non lightsaber, but the Force aspect of the form) and his shatterpoint ability, and you have an almost 100% chance of Mace besting Dooku in saber combat.

Dooku mastered the form lightsaber to lightsaber so he has the better style, didn't they meet in the middle of the clone wars and fight, which ended in a draw(i didn't read that book, i read it somewhere on this forum). In the fight between Dooku and Anakin the explanation that Anakin was pummeling Dooku into the ground with Djem So, where is that evident from the movie, in the movie Dooku seams to have no trouble handling Anakins Djem so and his physical strength, except when he pushes him away near the end of the duel.
Its not like the fight with Luke and Vader, when Luke was hammering him and Vader had a trouble holding his lightsaber. I think this that this explanation is just some pure excuse, why Dooku lost so fast. And where did Mace use such powerful attacks, i didn't see them with his fight with Sidious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgPQxebCdjY

Show me where Dooku has trouble handling Djem so, Anakin won because of his superior skill.

Its in the ROTS Novel, I already mentioned that. And while Dooku has the OVERALL superior lightsaber style, it is weak against heavy hitting styles like Vaapad and Djem so. Makashi doesn't just automatically trump all the other styles. Dooku couldn't handle the force of Anakins attacks and it wore him down until he got his head lobbed off.

After Dooku "taunts" Anakin is when Anakin really starts to hammer away at Dooku, leading to his defeat, its pretty obvious to me, even in the movie (although its explicitly stated in the novel). Makashi, or at least Dooku, has trouble against Anakin because 1) He is the most skilled Djem so user he had ever seen and 2) Because Makashi doesn't generate enough kinetic energy to counter Djem so head on. Anakin isn't necessarily more skilled then Dooku, more likely they are about even. But Anakin's style is strong against Makashi, so he had the advantage, and thus so would Mace.

Oh and in the comic where Dooku and Mace fight, Dooku runs away. They fight for maybe (its hard to tell with comics) but like 30 seconds at best, then Dooku calls over his Magnaguards to distract Mace so he could flee. So it was and was not a draw, Dooku opted out of the fight, knowing full-well that he might lose.

Also it should be noted that Mace's form hadn't been created when Dooku mastered his. So really that measuring stick of lightsaber combat that everyone clings to so dearly around here, is coming up a little short. If Dooku actually had the best form possible, wouldn't it be considered the deadliest form ever created?

And you're right, Dooku had no problem handling Anakin's style or strength, that's why he beat Anakin...oh wait I'm sorry, thats right, Dooku got pwned...

I already said that Anakin is better then Dooku in lightsaber and he didn't won just because of his form, he won because of his superior
skill.Because he has the strongest to the Force and he mastered the lightsaber he can channel his connection to the force in his fights with lightsaber, thats why he is the best lightsaber dualist in the PT, maybe even ever up that point.
I know it was said that Mace has the deadliest form, but that doesn't automatically make him the best, you wouldn't say he could defeat Yoda, now would you.

You missed my point. The point is Dooku's form and it's description as the "ultimate refinement...lightsaber to lightsaber combat..." whatever, was said BEFORE Mace's form was created, meaning that had Vaapad/Shatterpoint existed then, then it could have been considered the ultimate refinement blah blah blah...

get what I'm saying now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#Types

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php


Here all 7 forms are known, including Vaapad and it still says Makashi is best lightsaber to lightsaber. I think it doesn't depend so much on the form, but the practitioner who is using it.
Didn't Mace have Shatterpoint, when he was a child.

Uh-oh, some websites say Makashi is best. I hope it isn't wikipedia or something, which anyone can edit and put down their own "explanations."

Lolz, Plo Spoon livesd in the backyard of me!

Originally posted by Count Makashi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber#Types

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php


Here all 7 forms are known, including Vaapad and it still says Makashi is best lightsaber to lightsaber. I think it doesn't depend so much on the form, but the practitioner who is using it.
Didn't Mace have Shatterpoint, when he was a child.

Makashi is the best lightsaber-to-lightsaber fighting form, but Vaapad is the deadliest and is the hardest lightsaber form to master. It has innate properties to be used against dark side users - which Count Dooku is - and thus coupled with Mace's shatterpoint gives him two distinct advantages over Dooku.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Its arguable that Mace is overall better then Sidious with a lightsaber. Mace can beat Sidious because of his style and the fact that Sidious is a darksider (which Mace is THE perfect person for fighting them). And Mace has his Shatterpoint ability, all of these lead to Sidious' defeat in saber combat against Mace, but overall (i.e. against other people) I don't think that Mace is a better saber duelist then Sidious, merely that he has all the weapons to fight darksiders. For instance, Anakin has a VERY VERY good chance of taking Mace in saber combat (before he becomes Vader), probably better then Sidious ever had against him. Plus, they're saber duel was not pwnage from Mace, Mace was sh!tting bricks for a bit, and the duel was close, despite all of Mace's weapons against darksiders. People who don't have those weapons would get "Kit Fisto-ed" by Sidious, who is still possibly a better saber duelist overall.

I agree mostly. In ROTS, they were even blade for blade, until Mace found his shatterpoint. Them being even, though, accounts for Vaapads prowess against darksiders. Without the specific advantage of Vaapad, perhaps Sidious would be marginally better (even with Shatterpoint, an edge Mace has over everyone). I say that because, given Kit, Agen, and to a lesser extent Seasse's reputations, I don't think Mace could beat them as easily as Sidious did.

A more extreme example of the point you're trying to illustrate would be Anakin and Obi Wan. Anakin, strength for strength, trumps Obi Wan (although, Obi is still a forced to be reckoned with). If you were to get into a fight, you would want Anakin to back you up, not Obi Wan. However, against each other, due to specific advantages for Obi Wan, they are about even, and Obi Wan would even win in most situations.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You missed my point. The point is Dooku's form and it's description as the "ultimate refinement...lightsaber to lightsaber combat..." whatever, was said BEFORE Mace's form was created, meaning that had Vaapad/Shatterpoint existed then, then it could have been considered the ultimate refinement blah blah blah...

get what I'm saying now?

Hey moron, you're wrong. That was said about Makashi in an out of story article, at a point where Vaapad had already been established.

article?

Insider magazine #2, under the lightsaber form article.

oh, for some reason the way Ox always presented it, it seemed like something that Dooku had said himself, or at least like an in-universe description.

No worries, and no hard feelings about the hostility in the other thread, lol.

As for the fight, Dooku and Sidious should take it.

Makashi is probably the best lightsaber to lightsaber, Vaapad is probably the best overall, because Makashi isn't good against blaster fire.

Actually, I haven't heard where Makashi is bad against blaster fire. I thought that was just KOTOR's way of evening out all the saber forms. Think about it, all the jedi still know form 1, and all have pre-cog, so I don't see why it should be bad against blasters, might not be as good as other forms, but in no way bad...

All good, just caught me on a bad day. And for the record, I'm 26, lol. there's not many people here who are half my age! lol

Originally posted by kamikz
Actually, I haven't heard where Makashi is bad against blaster fire. I thought that was just KOTOR's way of evening out all the saber forms. Think about it, all the jedi still know form 1, and all have pre-cog, so I don't see why it should be bad against blasters, might not be as good as other forms, but in no way bad...

Maybe its not bad, but its probably the least good against blaster fire, because its being trained strictly lightsaber to lightsaber. It said that the Jedi abandoned Makashi trough centuries in time to PT, because others forms are better against blaster fire, but it probably depends more on a user, how god he is.

Yeah, that was my point, that it wasn't bad, but not nearly the best, probably the least suited one.

actaully mace windu is the grand master of every light saber style meaning he is supose to be the msot skilled light saber fighter all around as well as with every style.

Originally posted by kamikz
Lolz, Plo Spoon livesd in the backyard of me! Klo pwn is awesome.Originally posted by capt it up
actaully mace windu is the grand master of every light saber style meaning he is supose to be the msot skilled light saber fighter all around as well as with every style. Klo Poon would Poown Mace Window. He'd just throw him out with electric judgement. Mace is also a pussy.

Damn gay!




(And for those who didn't get the joke, it's a play on "Damn straight" :/ )

Originally posted by capt it up
actaully mace windu is the grand master of every light saber style meaning he is supose to be the msot skilled light saber fighter all around as well as with every style.

No he is not the most skilled he is not better then Yoda or Anakin in lightsaber duel and where did you get, that he knows every form.
I would say, that Mace and Dooku have the best pure skill, but that doesn't make them the best.