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Both at their peak. The scenario is where Darth Maul battled Obi and Qui-Gon (to make this an epic battle). Who wins?

At their peak are you kidding? that would mean FP anakin and revan will get pwned

You can't use FP anakin because that's illogical and that's pretty much forbidden on this forums. However, Anakin as of ROTS was at his peak, and he doesn't stand a chance against Revan in the force. However, it is very likely he could win a saber battle, but I don't see that happening either. Now you can wonder why I think Revan would win a saber battle, especially since we have no information on his saber skills. However, Revan was indeed the best of the best in his era, and I think that at the very least gives him a stalemate with Anakin in terms of dueling.

um... whats a stalemate? sorry, dont think im an idiot, its just that my first language is spanish so..

Originally posted by Riverollv
um... whats a stalemate? sorry, dont think im an idiot, its just that my first language is spanish so..
Stalemate means Draw.

Regarding Saber styles:

Anakin mastered Djem So (Form V).

Revan mastered Form I, possibly Form V, Form VI and Jar Kai.

And he was a skilled swordsman and after his fight on Star Forge, he proved to be a Prodigal Knight. I don't think that Anakin can defeat him even in pure Saber Combat.

Revan wins in all cases. And will easily destroy Anakin in the Force contest.

Wow, mommy, Revan might have mastered one or two more forms than Anakin Skywalker! That means jack shit.



Ooh, a Prodigal Knight? I want to be a Prodigal Knight, but then again, what does "proving to be a Prodigal Knight" have to do with this discussion?

Anakin proved his worth by defeating Count Dooku on the Invisible Hand, and he could very well be the numero uno swordsman in a stronger Jedi Order of thousands (as well as the galaxy), and even if wouldn't consider him as such, whomever is ahead of him is more adept, and more skilled than Revan, or Malak (e.g. Yoda, Mace).

But, then again none of that matters, because Revan is a Prodigal Knight.



No, Anakin can take him in bladed combat, him being a Prodigal Knight doesn't change that.

I'd personally say Revan takes it, even in saber combat.

Vandar described him as a saber prodigy, indicating that his natural grasp of the saber is on quite the high level; I would actually hesitate to even call Anakin a saber prodigy at all given he didn't technically advance at any extreme rate, and was only as good as he was because of his force strength.

Now we know that Revan did actually beat Darth Malak in saber combat, while being powered up by the Star Forge and described as near invincible. That's the same Malak who has quite the achievement under his belt, given that even in the days before he was powered up by the Star Forge, defeated Master Kavar, who was basically the BattleMaster of the KotOR Jedi Order, indicating he was one of the top KotOR Jedi Order duelists, and probably the best.

Revan's also faced far more combat against other force users and lightsaber users than Anakin has, seeing as he was involved in the Jedi Civil War. Add in the Mandalorian Wars, and he even has a greater overall battle experience than Anakin.

There's also the fact that Revan was perfectly content with going into battle with three powerful jedi with just his saber. Now we now that Revan certainly has the ability to have just taken them all out with the force, yet he was still confident enough in his saber ability to take it easy and just use his saber, implying that he might have been as confident in his ability with a saber as he was with his ability with the force.

The thing is, force ability strongly correlates with saber ability (precognition, reflexes, increasing your speed for example), and Revan being as strong as he is with the force heavily supports him being awesome with a saber.

So I'd say Revan takes this, due to his prodigious saber skills coupled along with his immense strength with the force, and his greater battle experience.

Originally posted by Advent
Wow, mommy, Revan might have mastered one or two more forms than Anakin Skywalker! That means jack shit.
Mastering more Saber Forms gives a clue about his Combat capabilities. I mentioned this not for comparison basis but for informative purpose that what Revan had practised/mastered before we could proceed to make further discussions.

Originally posted by Advent
Ooh, a Prodigal Knight? I want to be a Prodigal Knight, but then again, what does "proving to be a Prodigal Knight" have to do with this discussion?

Anakin proved his worth by defeating Count Dooku on the Invisible Hand, and he could very well be the numero uno swordsman in a stronger Jedi Order of thousands (as well as the galaxy), and even if wouldn't consider him as such, whomever is ahead of him is more adept, and more skilled than Revan, or Malak (e.g. Yoda, Mace).

But, then again none of that matters, because Revan is a Prodigal Knight.
And Revan proved his worth in combat against an entire army of Sith on Star Forge, Bastilla (who was powered up by Star Forge itself) and then the Dark Lord Malak, who was well prepared. And Revan succeeded against all odds.

Anakin's victory over Dooku is impressive but that does not compares to what Revan faced in his final long fight on Star Forge.

Yoda and Mace being ahead of Revan in Saber Combat is questionable. Mace's case can be backed up by his victory over Sidious but I can't say the same about Yoda.

Originally posted by Advent
No, Anakin can take him in bladed combat, him being a Prodigal Knight doesn't change that.
The Prodigal Knight has achieved much more then what Anakin did. It is questionable that Anakin can take him in Saber Combat or not. Dooku uses Makashi and Revan does not uses Makashi. Djem So proved to be effective against Makashi.

Revan is not like Dooku.

Originally posted by allfg
I'd personally say Revan takes it, even in saber combat.

Well, I might even say you're wrong.

You're wrong.



Palpatine described him as "the most gifted Jedi has ever met". Even Mace Windu says that his skills are exceptional. And the omniscient narrator would note Anakin Skywalker as:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation (which likely doesn't include Mace Windu, or Yoda). Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. (Revenge of the Sith novelization, Ch. 1)

Even if do want to consider it hyperbolic, it indicates that he is vastly powerful, and immensely skilled.

Within less than ten years, Anakin mastered Djem So to be able to wield the form with enough proficiency for Count Dooku to proclaim him as "fine a one as had ever seen". Now, as we know, that's obviously an innumerable amount of Jedi, given that Count Dooku was around for years upon years.



He was able to do in ten years what the majority of Jedi cannot do in a lifetime - defeat Count Dooku. If that's not indicative of him being prodigious, I don't know what is.

Now, you'll also have to take into account that he would've had to have practiced Shii Cho, and Ataru before even beginning Djem So, so it's even more of a testament to his skill that he was able to do such, and still go on to defeat Count Dooku, who would make some Council members look like child's play.



1. We know that Revan overcome Darth Malak in combat; where does it specifically state "saber combat"? As saying merely that implies they only dueled using lightsaber.

2. To go along with that, unless there's new information out, we have absolutely no idea of by how he defeated him, or even by what margin.

3. "This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic.

Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed." (Star Wars databank, Darth Malak)

It does indeed say that he was "nearly unstoppable", however, it then goes on to say that the Republic won, because the Star Forge was destroyed, and there's talk of the skirmish between the two forces, as well. One could assume that it wasn't stating that Malak, as an individual being was nigh unconquerable, but the entire force he had at his disposal.



Yes, that's "quite the achievement" compared to Anakin defeating Dooku! Hell, Anakin's stomped Cin Drallig, the battle master of the RotS Order, into a mudhole. While he's not the best, the mere fact that he was able to kill him using one hand while choking a padawan with the another speaks volumes.

Anyways, to get on point, Kavar, as far as we know, was jack shit when compared to Anakin, or even Count Dooku for that matter. Do you have any proof of the contrary? That he's even on their level? As for the actual duel between the two, what were the circumstances of the fight? Such as: how did Malak win, was it a basic beat down or a TPM Kenobi (or a hard fought duel that could've gone either way), etc. His defeat of Kavar is impressive, but not overly so, due to the fact we know next to nothing about what happened, and one thing we do know, though, is Malak got his jaw cut off by a Jedi.

I'm going to do the same thing you've done, except tailor it to fit my argument. Anakin was victorious over Count Dooku, and defeated him in record time. That's the same Dooku who has quite the list of achievements under his belt:

Originally posted by Advent
As seen in the background is Tholme, who himself is no weakling was battling with Sora (2-on-1) against Dooku, and even so Dooku still beat Sora, and right after spared Tholme, only of course, after owning him with his saber as well:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2785/tholmedookuduelga6.th.jpg

Really though, Dooku has a vast amount of training, and experience over Malak. Roughly 80+ years of it. Since we know he was trained as a youngling, he has about 70+ years experience as a Jedi, and 13 years as a Sith Lord. Now, we know experience definitely isn't everything, however, to deny it gives an advantage is purely ridiculous. For example, throughout those years - he is stated to know "Every weakness of Ataru" (his duel against Yoda obviously didn't end in a victory, however, Yoda's pure skill is probably better than anything).

And within those years, has mastered Makashi - the lightsaber to lightsaber form - to it's highest degree. Admittedly, forms are necessity for victory, however, it's clue that Dooku's lightsaber skills are no joke.

He has also bested Mace Windu in personal combat before, now Windu wasn't at his peak, however, he still beat him (it's kind of irrelevant to even bring up, but just to add to the fact). He's also described as "Dooku, consummate planner, consummate duelist." Consummate meaning perfect or to the highest degree. Clearly Dooku's skill with a lightsaber is amazing. Even Yoda comments on his skills:

"Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!"

Calling him the strongest student, and one that has learned the most. We also know Dooku is more powerful than Grievous, who has slain numerous Jedi Masters with ease (Council member as well), Asajj Ventress, and so on.

Furthermore, he was able to easily take down AotC Kenobi, who - even for the time - was never considered a shoddy swordsman, and AotC Anakin, then was able to combat Yoda for a decent amount of time, and still escape with his head on his shoulders. Not to mention, being described by the omniscient narrator as "one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history" (meaning one of the most powerful beings in the Order ever), and then titled as "an even greater Sith", implying his power increased.

Dooku really doesn't need anyone to list his feats, seeing as on merit alone, he's considered one of the best lightsaber duelists of his era, and more than likely in the top five of a stronger era (when it comes to top dogs, at least); those who are ahead of him, like Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Anakin, etc. are all better than Kavar, so it doesn't matter what his rank is.

Being at the top of the food chain in lightsaber combat within the Jedi Order is no small feat, but it doesn't mean that he's anywhere in the same league as the best of a different era. Even General Grievous is seemingly more talented (in blades).



That's great, but experience is hardly the end all, be all. It may add an advantage, but as we've seen demonstrated on several separate occasions, it doesn't stop more skilled opponents from killing them all the time.



There's also the fact that Anakin chooses to dominate his opponents with a lightsaber, and is perfectly content with unleashing his rage, and honing it like a weapon to completely overwhelm even the greatest of swordsman. Which, to me, implies that Anakin is a beast in lightsaber combat, and could very well take down anyone in the era in a pure lightsaber bout.

In an seriousness though, even if that were the case, it doesn't mean that in actuality he's as good in practice with lightsabers as in the force, we've seen several occasions where people decide to ignite their lightsabers, and choose that route over a force battle, even when they may have a better chance.

No one is denying that he's good with a lightsaber, so I don't really care. But, for all of Count Dooku's strength in the force, years of experience, and talent with a blade, he still lost to Anakin, and during their one-on-one duel, he did so very quickly, I might add.

I'm of the mind that Revan won't beat him. All these miscellaneous reasons, or the fact that Revan was a Prodigal Knight don't change the fact Revan isn't John Cena, so he's not overcoming these odds (Anakin) in saber combat.

@ S_w_LeGo:

Be quiet, and go respond to my where I, and everyone else, kicked your ass in this thread. I don't have time to watch Barney, and play with these toy arguments you give. Let someone who's a more capable debater attempt this situation.

Originally posted by Kadesh
At their peak are you kidding? that would mean FP anakin and revan will get pwned
He said ROTS Anakin so he means Anakin during his peak in ROTS.



Anyways, I think that Revan would take this but it'd be very close. Anakin might be better with a blade but Revan is stronger with the Force.

Nevermind this post.

So who is Anakin, Edge?

Erm, why'd you remove your post? Lol.

Cause it was what you said but shorter...no real point in keeping it.

You know, LeGenD, I simply don't understand why you can continue to debate; people have often compared you to Nebaris, but realistically, Nebaris is capable of constructing a good argument (when he isn't clouded by bias or simply not wanting to be a jackass). You aren't bound by such "restraints". You simply argue and argue and argue and get beat and get beat and get beat. Then you argue some more.

As far as this fight is concerned, it can go either way. Accounts of Revan seem to imply that he pretty much amazing with the Force and his usage of it. Anakin's power is uncontrolled and lies mostly within his potential (even though he is capable of spectacular feats), and so he lacks Revan's control. However, in certain situations, that is irrelevent. Count Dooku - as Advent has proven - was a supremely powerful Jedi (one of the very best in SW history) and then became a greater Sith Lord, meaning that he advanced in power and overall ability under Darth Sidious. And, yet, look what happened to Dooku in his fight with Anakin? Once a certain point was reached - Dooku's skill, knowledge, and experience was simply made into a joke. He cut through Dooku's defense and wiped him out.

This is what I interpret to be "Anakin at his peak" (aside from him at full potential, in which Revan would be annihilated), and so I do believe that Revan would die a painful, miserable death in a lightsaber fight, or in a situation similar to Dooku's, where his skills are made irrelevent. Revan isn't miles and miles above Dooku, so if we used common logical deduction - if Anakin can render someone of Dooku's caliber (who would not be owned by Revan) a joke (as spoken by the omniscient narrator), then Anakin would do the same to Revan. Granted, it may take more effort, but Revan will die to Anakin in a swordfight, and this is simply the irrefutable case.

However, if Revan plays smart and uses his considerable Force prowess from the beginning, I see him winning.

Escape, I think you're giving Anakin too much credit here. You can't really compare Dooku to Revan in the force because Revan IS far superior to him in that category, so in a force fight Anakin doesn't really have a chance.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, I think you're giving Anakin too much credit here. You can't really compare Dooku to Revan in the force because Revan IS far superior to him in that category, so in a force fight Anakin doesn't really have a chance.

I didn't say that Anakin would win in a Force fight. I said he'd win in a lightsaber fight, which he would. Revan may be a lot ahead of Dooku in the Force, but there is nothing to indicate that he is so in the lightsaber skill department. Anakin would soundly kick Revan's ass in that department.

Originally posted by Gideon
You know, LeGenD, I simply don't understand why you can continue to debate; people have often compared you to Nebaris, but realistically, Nebaris is capable of constructing a good argument (when he isn't clouded by bias or simply not wanting to be a jackass). You aren't bound by such "restraints". You simply argue and argue and argue and get beat and get beat and get beat. Then you argue some more.
I don't care about my comparison with other people as I may not be as good as you and others are but I have enough right to participate in a debate as you have.

What I mentioned above is what I know about Revan and Malak and I used some sources to also back up my points. Now you have trouble reading my posts then stop reading them or add me to your ignore list as it will save you from my views.

Originally posted by Gideon
As far as this fight is concerned, it can go either way. Accounts of Revan seem to imply that he pretty much amazing with the Force and his usage of it. Anakin's power is uncontrolled and lies mostly within his potential (even though he is capable of spectacular feats), and so he lacks Revan's control. However, in certain situations, that is irrelevent. Count Dooku - as Advent has proven - was a supremely powerful Jedi (one of the very best in SW history) and then became a greater Sith Lord, meaning that he advanced in power and overall ability under Darth Sidious. And, yet, look what happened to Dooku in his fight with Anakin? Once a certain point was reached - Dooku's skill, knowledge, and experience was simply made into a joke. He cut through Dooku's defense and wiped him out.
Fights indeed can go either way but this is in the case when two equals clash. Anakin is among best and I never denied this but simply trying to over-state him in certain areas won't help. I know that Anakin is a saber master but that does not means that he can over-power and defeat more powerful individuals. Advent has her own views about such things and I have mine. You agree more with Advent then you are allowed to do so as it is your choice but you cannot just go on and trash views of others that you don't like. People have different perceptions about things and you should be well aware of this.

Some people consider Vader to be most powerful Jedi and some don't.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is what I interpret to be "Anakin at his peak" (aside from him at full potential, in which Revan would be annihilated), and so I do believe that Revan would die a painful, miserable death in a lightsaber fight, or in a situation similar to Dooku's, where his skills are made irrelevent. Revan isn't miles and miles above Dooku, so if we used common logical deduction - if Anakin can render someone of Dooku's caliber (who would not be owned by Revan) a joke (as spoken by the omniscient narrator), then Anakin would do the same to Revan. Granted, it may take more effort, but Revan will die to Anakin in a swordfight, and this is simply the irrefutable case.
The point is that Anakin never reached his peak. We use ROTS as his best form for debates. Revan has clearly done and accomplished more then Anakin and several sources indicate him to be very powerful. Dooku is one very powerful individual indeed but I have provided a good case of Revan and Malak in my above post and most of those points are valid. People tend to forget that age and training of a Jedi are not the only factors that determine there capabilies as this has been proven false even in the movies and I have hinted on this in my post.

Originally posted by Gideon
However, if Revan plays smart and uses his considerable Force prowess from the beginning, I see him winning.
I agree but Revan is no less then Anakin even in Saber Combat. This is my belief and if you don't accept it and I expect this from some others as well, it is your choice. The point is that Revan and Anakin never clashed so we can't truely tell that who can win but since we can look at their accomplishments and references and adventures, we can get a perspective of how the fight can proceed.

Thanks for your particpation but really give others some space to speak as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
I didn't say that Anakin would win in a Force fight. I said he'd win in a lightsaber fight, which he would. Revan may be a lot ahead of Dooku in the Force, but there is nothing to indicate that he is so in the lightsaber skill department. Anakin would soundly kick Revan's ass in that department.

While I disagree with you there, and despite Revan being the top duelist and force user of tens of thousands, we can't really gauge his saber skill because it is, for the most part largely unknown, so I won't delve into that argument.

I'm glad to see that you don't care in regards to your "reputation" here, and I'd recommend continuing along that philisophical road, because it is beyond repair. I mean, really, you're not a debater. You're the type (with help) to be a school counselor. One minute, you're trying to be "zeh logic tiger!!" and the next you're a kitten. Do us a favor and pick one.



There you go: the fundamental flaw of debating. You're of the opinion that simply because you have an opinion that it makes you justified and - arguably - right. This isn't the case. Everyone has an opinion on every issue, and though they are welcomed to that opinion that doesn't prevent them from being wrong. If your opinion is refuted and tossed aside, it is no less of an opinion, but it is one that is factually wrong. Understand this and accept this. We're not saying that you have to get rid of your high standards for Revan or any other KotoR character, but we are saying that in most cases - facts can be proven. Basically, you can believe that "Revan > Anakin" but when more support comes for the opposition, it means you are wrong.



And those people would be wrong, as it can be proven and discounted that Vader is not the most powerful Jedi (considering how "Vader" isn't a Jedi, but a Sith) and if you are referring to Anakin - he is definately one of the most skilled and possesses the highest potential - but even then he is not "the strongest".



A regular Malak isn't on Dooku's level; hell, I can make an argument that would put him beneath Maul. Revan has "accomplished" more in terms of political and militaristic means but that doesn't make him a better fighter than Anakin. Hell, I could even point out that Anakin killed Durge - who was "virtually unstoppable" in a case even more extreme than Malak. Anakin also lacked Revan's lifetime of experience and training in the Jedi arts, as well as Revan's dabbling into the dark side. And then of course we can't even begin to say as to how tightly controlled and regulated Anakin was in comparison to Revan (through Sidious and the Jedi). I suppose since Sidious "accomplished" more than either Revan or Luke or Dooku or Yoda, he can take them all at the same time?



What you "think" and what is "real" can be called two completely different things. You think that way? Back it up.



And thanks for this senseless and irrelevent tidbit of information. Listen, son, this is an "internet forum". If someone wants some "space to speak", they are well within reason and capability to do so.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
While I disagree with you there, and despite Revan being the top duelist and force user of tens of thousands, we can't really gauge his saber skill because it is, for the most part largely unknown, so I won't delve into that argument.

That is poor reasoning; Revan's order /= Anakin's order. Anakin has a lot more competition in the saber department, such as Dooku, Mace, Yoda, and so on. So, really, DS. Revan's upper-level competition can't really compare to those three.

Originally posted by Gideon
That is poor reasoning; Revan's order /= Anakin's order. Anakin has a lot more competition in the saber department, such as Dooku, Mace, Yoda, and so on. So, really, DS. Revan's upper-level competition can't really compare to those three.

What do you mean poor reasoning? Notice how I said I can't make an argument for Revan BECAUSE he is an unknown. I recognize Anakin's order as a whole was more powerful, but that itself is hardly conclusive evidence that Anakin can beat Revan. And why can't we compare Revan and Malak to Yoda, Dooku, Mace, and Anakin? I think it's poor reasoning if you said Anakin>Revan in saber combat just BECAUSE he had more competition.

Originally posted by Advent
@ S_w_LeGo:

Be quiet, and go respond to my where I, and everyone else, kicked your ass in this thread. I don't have time to watch Barney, and play with these toy arguments you give. Let someone who's a more capable debater attempt this situation.
I conceded your points in that thread so I really don't feel the need to give a reply.

The point is that some people in other Forms changed my perception about Force Lightning.

I was among those who believed that very powerful Force Lightning can eliminate a Jedi. And I now once again believe this so it is not a big deal. People always learn from what they experience.

But so much pride is not good. You are an exceptional debator but that does not means that you are superior to others in other cases as well.

You have more sources and comics and novels of Star Wars and this is what gives you ultimate edge.

But note that not all will agree with you on every point. People tend to have different perceptions of things but that does not means that we should trash them because their views differ from ours.

In the Star Wars official forums, you will be stunned to see that so many different views exist regarding Star Wars and each person has his/her own perceptions. We can change some but not all.

Some people don't even know much about Revan there I think.

I agree with Sexy. We all know Revan would beat Anakin easily with the Force. But still we know both, Revan and Anakin, were amazingly skilled with the lightsaber as well. You cant simply say Anakin would really beat Revan by much. We know theyre amazing with the lightsaber becuz of what weve seen. For Anakin, in the movies, and for Revan in KOTOR. I mean, cmon, you cant say beatin a whole army of Dark Jedi AND Darth Malak IN the STAR FORGE while at their MAX and with the help of Bastila's battle meditation isnt somethin. Im not sayin Revan would win, but i just want to make the point that it may be quite close in terms of saber combat, anyhow.

That's not what I said. I said Escape simply misread my post. I didn't say Revan is better than Anakin because he was #1 in an order of tens of thousands. I said even with all of these advantages going to Revan, we simply don't know anything about his saber skills in comparison to the PT's top dogs.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm glad to see that you don't care in regards to your "reputation" here, and I'd recommend continuing along that philisophical road, because it is beyond repair. I mean, really, you're not a debater. You're the type (with help) to be a school counselor. One minute, you're trying to be "zeh logic tiger!!" and the next you're a kitten. Do us a favor and pick one.
What type of reaction will you expect from me when you compare me with some other debator? Of-course I won't give much attention because I cannot make my self a strong debator over night. It happens as time passes by and we get to learn more from others.

I have my strong points in some cases and also weak points in some cases. I cannot be perfect in all cases. And I won't start my self-praise to lift my image up. You don't like my views then simply don't respond.

Originally posted by Gideon
There you go: the fundamental flaw of debating. You're of the opinion that simply because you have an opinion that it makes you justified and - arguably - right. This isn't the case. Everyone has an opinion on every issue, and though they are welcomed to that opinion that doesn't prevent them from being wrong. If your opinion is refuted and tossed aside, it is no less of an opinion, but it is one that is factually wrong. Understand this and accept this. We're not saying that you have to get rid of your high standards for Revan or any other KotoR character, but we are saying that in most cases - facts can be proven. Basically, you can believe that "Revan > Anakin" but when more support comes for the opposition, it means you are wrong.
Do I force my opinion on all others? No!

I just mention my views. I hardly ever counter your opinions as you might have noted this in past few weeks but still you have your perceptions and I have mine. I sometimes however do disagree with views of others as this is part of debates but this does not means that I can change views of others forever. You should understand this that you cannot go on and dictate about what you think is true on others. I do also concede or accept points of others like I recently did in one of the threads here and thus I do think positively.

Originally posted by Gideon
And those people would be wrong, as it can be proven and discounted that Vader is not the most powerful Jedi (considering how "Vader" isn't a Jedi, but a Sith) and if you are referring to Anakin - he is definately one of the most skilled and possesses the highest potential - but even then he is not "the strongest".
If my points are proven false regarding this fight then I will accept them. I am not a fanboy of Revan and Malak to such an extent that I will not listen to what others say.

Originally posted by Gideon
A regular Malak isn't on Dooku's level; hell, I can make an argument that would put him beneath Maul. Revan has "accomplished" more in terms of political and militaristic means but that doesn't make him a better fighter than Anakin. Hell, I could even point out that Anakin killed Durge - who was "virtually unstoppable" in a case even more extreme than Malak. Anakin also lacked Revan's lifetime of experience and training in the Jedi arts, as well as Revan's dabbling into the dark side. And then of course we can't even begin to say as to how tightly controlled and regulated Anakin was in comparison to Revan (through Sidious and the Jedi). I suppose since Sidious "accomplished" more than either Revan or Luke or Dooku or Yoda, he can take them all at the same time?
If you are judging Malak's power from a game then this is wrong. Revan's power can differ in the game and with it difficulty level can also differ. Regular Malak is also very powerful as I have mentioned all details about him and they are worth reading. And strange thing is that it was regular Malak who over-powered Revan and was about to defeat him in the fight until Bastilla jumped in to save him. Remember that Nihilus is among the most powerful Sith Lords in SW history and yet we see him getting pwned in the game. This is the fault of Game Mechanics.

If Dooku will be put in a game then he will seem even less impressive because Malak knew more Sith techniques and powers then him as I made a comparison list here. Game Mechanics regarding fighting capabilities are not at all to be trusted.

And I agree that Sidious accomplished more then Revan as well. He is the most successful Sith Lord in the SW history.

Originally posted by Gideon
What you "think" and what is "real" can be called two completely different things. You think that way? Back it up.
I backed up most of my points with some sources. The posts are long but they contain good information. However there are always chances of flaws in any post made by any person.

Originally posted by Gideon
And thanks for this senseless and irrelevent tidbit of information. Listen, son, this is an "internet forum". If someone wants some "space to speak", they are well within reason and capability to do so.
Once again your biasedness against me is evident. Listen man! Internet is filled with many people and all have their perceptions and if you don't agree with others in some cases then it does not means that they suck. People always learn from experiences.

In a Force fight Revan wins, but in a lightsaber only Anakin wins, regarding Dookus case, Anakin only had to decide to win against Dooku, even if Revan is better then Dooku with a blade, he cant just decide to win like Anakin did, no one except Anakin could do that.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's not what I said. I said Escape simply misread my post. I didn't say Revan is better than Anakin because he was #1 in an order of tens of thousands. I said even with all of these advantages going to Revan, we simply don't know anything about his saber skills in comparison to the PT's top dogs.

No, no. Srry if i didnt write things clear enough, Sexy. I never meant to say Revan is better than Anakin beacause he was no.1 in an order of tens of thousands, and i know we know nothin in comparison to the PT's dogs, im just sayin that if he did all of that, he must be pretty good handling a saber.

obviosuly VERY good

Of course he is very good, but not as good as Anakin.

Even if Revan could beat Anakin in the force department, what makes anyone here think he would? Once he entered melee, no way he could get off a force attack while in saber combat (seeing as how Dooku's force prowess was called "A joke," even though he uses Makashi, a form that leaves a hand free, for possible force attacks).
Now, why would Revan enter melee? Well, a good reason is because he doesn't know who the Hell Anakin is, and is woefully unaware of how badly he will get demolished and how quickly Anakin could be wearing his skin like a suit. I thought of another reason thanks to my good friend Nebby. He pointed out with such intensely powerful emotion and unwavering rhetoric that:

Originally posted by allfg
There's also the fact that Revan was perfectly content with going into battle with three powerful jedi with just his saber. Now we now that Revan certainly has the ability to have just taken them all out with the force, yet he was still confident enough in his saber ability to take it easy and just use his saber...

Wow. That was amazing. Basically, allfg has shown us that Revan, as a first reaction, brings out the lightsaber (also, in the picture of Revan over a defeated Malak Revan had a lightsaber out). Meaning, Anakin, as a first reaction, brings out a can of Whoop Ass.

I agree, but, Revan wouldn't go in every fight the same way.

Yes, but, that does go to show that Revan will most likely attack with his lightsaber.

Also, Anakin is fast enough to dodge some force attacks, and he has some good defence in the force.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FZ_93owuE-o
0:45
4:29

Although this obviously isn't the best video to show Anakin being fine against force attacks; keep in mind this is while he was a Padawan. As a Knight he was much more on top of his game, judging by the fight with Dooku. This video only shows him getting hit by force attacks that are in the thick of melee, and, as a Knight, if an attempt is made at that, the attacker will lose a significant amount of... limbs.

Yes, but Asajj isn't strong in the Force as Revan.

"From the site of Anakin Slywalker's last stand, where he sought to destroy his friend and former Master, Ob1-Wan Kenobi, a fearsome specter in black has risen. Once the most powerful Knight ever known to the Jedi Order, he is now a disciple of the dark side, a lord of the dreaded Sith, and the avenging right hand of the galaxy's ruthless new Emperor."

So as far as power goes, I don't think Revan is up there with Anakin. Does he have more control over his abilities? Absolutely, but as Escape pointed out - so did Dooku. Plus Dooku had the lightsaber advantage. Anakin, at his known peak, is too much for almost anyone to deal with in an all out fight (which includes the lightsaber), so having more power or ability in the force is worthless if you cant get the opportunity to use it. But even then, honestly, we don't know the extent of Anakin's force ability because he never demonstrated it to it's highest capacity, that we know of. Just because Revan has done certain things, doesn't mean he's definitely above Anakin, although it is a strong possibility. I dunno, force fight - Revan; sabers - Anakin; all out - that can go either way, but I'm leaning towards Anakin.

The only real chance someone has using Force powers on Anakin is in the beginning of the fight, where there is some distance between opponents, but when Anakin comes close and fights with blades, your a goner, like you said(Subjekt)in some other thread, he is just to fast, combined with his raw power and physical strength, he is unstoppable.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yes, but Asajj isn't strong in the Force as Revan.

But Dooku could be. And even if Revan was exponentially more powerful with Dooku in the force (which I would give a big "Hell No" to), it doesn't mean that he would have a chance to use his powers or that they would be much more than a nuisance to Anakin.

I would also give big Hell No to say Revan is much more powerful then Dooku and in the movie, Dooku didn't even try to use any Force powers on Anakin. Maybe if he had use them, especially in the beginning of the fight, the fight might have ended differently.

He didn't have a chance to use force attacks once Anakin got serious, and, he, like Revan (as I would imagine) prefers to enter saber combat.

Only in a lightsaber match.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
But Dooku could be. And even if Revan was exponentially more powerful with Dooku in the force (which I would give a big "Hell No" to), it doesn't mean that he would have a chance to use his powers or that they would be much more than a nuisance to Anakin.

What do you mean could be? Judging from what we know of Revan, Dooku, and other sith, the only ones that are on his level or above or Sidious and Exar Kun(excluding the ancient sith). Dooku is not anywhere near Revan's force abilities.

Because he made a holocron... or what?

Because his knowledge surpasses any other sith lord with the exception of Sidious.

Anakin would whoop Revan in a saber duel. But a Force battle would go to Revan. Overall I think its too close to call given Anakin's much superior Saber skill.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Anakin would whoop Revan in a saber duel. But a Force battle would go to Revan. Overall I think its too close to call given Anakin's much superior Saber skill.

What kind of logic is that? We don't have anything definitive on Revan's saber skill, so by default Anakin whoops him? Nevermind that Revan was #1 in his order. Nobody is disputing that there are too many sources NOT to give a saber duel to Anakin, but "whoop" is hardly the word I will use for their duel.

You stole that sig... I'm pretty sure.

Originally posted by Advent
^
You see, if I want to take down your argument, I will. It's not hard, I just have to take time I'm not going to take, because in my perspective, your posts are pathetic, and the one you made in response to mine was needlessly lengthy, because it didn't prove much of anything.
huh!

You did destroyed my argument in one thread but this does not means that you can do this in all cases and subjects. Thanks for your in-complete analysis of the situation in this thread.

I'll get to that later, LeGenD, but I can tell you from only addressing the first part that argument is horribly faulty, and riddled with idiocy. But, meh, enough talk. Look for a response when I get back from work.

Dueling does not always mean you fight with swords this and that. For example legend if i were to duel you, it means i could duel you in a debate, in singing or wrestling ^.~

Now a duel in starwars does not always mean a "clash of sabers". It could mean a force fight as well

Originally posted by Kadesh
Dueling does not always mean you fight with swords this and that. For example legend if i were to duel you, it means i could duel you in a debate, in singing or wrestling ^.~

Now a duel in starwars does not always mean a "clash of sabers". It could mean a force fight as well
hmm!

But the vision of Duron does indicates that a Saber clash took place between them. Anyways! I will soon know the answer as I have asked the relevant KOTOR author about this and am waiting for his response.

Well the vision seems credible, cept for the armour cuz it was stated ingame that revans robes was destroyed

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
hmm!

But the vision of Duron does indicates that a Saber clash took place between them. Anyways! I will soon know the answer as I have asked the relevant KOTOR author about this and am waiting for his response.


Where? I only saw Revan standing over Malak's body with his saber ignited, it's not like he would have it turned off just because he wanted to use the force as well...

Originally posted by Advent
Wow, mommy, Revan might have mastered one or two more forms than Anakin Skywalker! That means jack shit.



Ooh, a Prodigal Knight? I want to be a Prodigal Knight, but then again, what does "proving to be a Prodigal Knight" have to do with this discussion?

Anakin proved his worth by defeating Count Dooku on the Invisible Hand, and he could very well be the numero uno swordsman in a stronger Jedi Order of thousands (as well as the galaxy), and even if wouldn't consider him as such, whomever is ahead of him is more adept, and more skilled than Revan, or Malak (e.g. Yoda, Mace).

But, then again none of that matters, because Revan is a Prodigal Knight.



No, Anakin can take him in bladed combat, him being a Prodigal Knight doesn't change that.

Ooo...I think someones in love...

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/899/anakinvo4.th.jpg

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Bullshit? I have posted no bullshit regarding Kavar here

Obviously you've misinterpreted "bullshit", as something false, when all I meant was that it was: a) irrelevant, and b) doesn't prove a damn thing. For example,

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Then kavar instructed Jedi Exile in the arts of Saber Combat and she turned out to be one of the most successful fighters in her age and also helped her in difficult situations during fights.

Kavar was also known to practise Force Lightning (even as a Jedi). I would rate Kavar much higher then Dralling.

Do you realize how ****ing stupid that sounds? For one, if you're going to make a claim about a person, at least prove up on it. Where does it state Kavar knows Force lightning, as no source I've seen indicates such? Then, I'd like you to tell me who gives a shit if he instructed the Exile, because Drallig instructed several students, as he was the head lightsaber instructor. And guess what? Two of his students just happen to be considered the greatest Jedi team ever to grace the galaxy, Anakin Skywalker, and Obi-Wan Kenobi (source: Casualty Report: Order 66). So, your point really holds no water.

Cin is also said to be fully trained in all forms of bladed combat, save for Vaapad ("although well versed in nearly all styles of the lightsaber, except for Form VII..."; Visual Dictionary, p. 33), and on top of that, he's noted as being "one of the Order's top swordsmen", yet Anakin took him out in a few swings, even with using the other hand to manually choke the padawan.

It's even noted that "Drallig's skills marked him as a priority target for elimination by Lord Vader". Now, I don't even know where you got the impression I was arguing that Cin > Kavar, but it looks like your case for proving the opposite sucks. You have no real evidence suggesting Kavar was better, nor "much higher" in the rankings. Try again, chump change.

The entire reason I even mentioned Cin was to show just how dominate Anakin is in lightsaber combat, even against a man considered to be one of the best, knows multiple forms, and said to be able to take down Grievous. You took my post out of context, and argued against something non-existent.



Except, again, they prove literally nothing.



I own KotOR 2, but that's irrelevant, I don't have to have it in my possession, or even play it. It's your job to provide strong evidence to back up your assertions, and the like. Not mine to replay a sub par game.



That's wonderful, we've seen intelligent Jedi masters who haven't seen much combat at all, your point? How does being a strategist on the battle field account for jack shit when comparing him with another being? Again, nothing.

In reality, just because someone was mentioned as "intelligent" doesn't really mean too much; Darth Vader (OT) was intelligent, but would be decimated by the top dogs of the PT in a saber battle.



Oh my Buddha, what does that prove? It only shows that he's more well experienced, but as we know, experience hasn't had too much of an impact on the outcome of duels (see: Vodo/Kun, Odan/Kun, Anakin/Dooku, etc.), nor does it prove he's powerful. Tott "Small fry" Doneeta fought in the Great Sith War, too, is he more powerful than Drallig, FFS?



Thanks for repeating yourself. I think I disregarded it the first time for a reason. Drallig skill was so great that he was said to be able to take down General Grievous, a man who's killed more Jedi than Kavar has digits.



Thanks for repeating yourself. I think I covered this above, but for kicks, I'll tell you that Cin was also the Battle master of the "Golden Age of the Jedi", an expert in almost all forms (except Vaapad), and has taught said forms to thousands of students. All this is evident from actual source material.



Wow, he defeated some guards! "OMFGKAVAR=GOD".



You haven't even shown any evidence that Kavar's better, except for opinions, and beliefs (not factual), miscellaneous shit like "he taught Exile!" (big ****ing deal), and that he mastered some forms. Now, compare this to narration telling us how good Cin is, reputable masters commenting on his skill, and other things. Even if he's not that much greater (though, he intuitively is), it's apparent that he, at the very least, rivals him. Not that any of that was the point, though.



See above; you're lying, and/or uninformed.



And this is indicative that Drallig is lower than Kavar in dueling prowess? No, it's not. We can deduce that Drallig is wise, otherwise he wouldn't be instructing students whatsoever.



No, it is safe to say you're a biased KotOR fanboy, and that you have no idea what you're talking about. You've haven't provided a decent quantity (or even any) amount of viable evidence, and the things you've written don't put Kavar on a higher level than Cin, anyways.



I don't try, son. As much is apparent through my days here. If I was "trying to be smart", then I'd been using someone else's vocabulary; which is something I've noticed you to be doing lately.



duel, n.

A prearranged, formal combat between two persons, usually fought to settle a point of honor.

I don't know how you automatically think "it was a lightsaber duel!", simply because the last part of the word is in there. For example,

"The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides." (Yoda, Star Wars databank).

Now, as we know, Yoda and Sidious' battle in RotS was not purely a lightsaber duel, nor was the majority of it involving lightsabers. Despite this, it's still noted as a "duel", ergo you're entire premise is faulty.

A duel by definition, even Star Wars definition, isn't 3/4 lightsaber combat, or a full on bladed battle, it's just two people trying to kill each other. If we believed what you say to be true, Yoda and Palpatine must've not battled using the Force. I mean, you do realize back in olden times, a duel was settled with guns? Alexander Hamilton, and Aaron Burr ring a bell?



Well, then you need to check again, because you've been "examination" was disproved; see above, chump change.

And you don't need to continuously tell me things that aren't really relevant, or have already been addressed (i.e. "epic", etc.). You sound like a broken record.



But, that's not what I asked, so try again, chump change. If you need some refreshing, I asked: how does getting a description ("titantic", "epic", etc.) indicate anything about a lightsaber duel, as you said 'all these cases'? Oh? What's that? They don't?

Indeed, mere description imply absolutely zilch in regards to what type of combat took place, which was my point, and the point that completely flew over your head like Superman.



So, then, why did you respond to when I asked Nebaris if it was a straight lightsaber duel, as his post insuiated?



If you seriously say that one more time, I'm going to reach through my monitor, and kick your ass. What relevance does this have, at all? The only thing it seemingly means is that it wasn't a squash match, which says that Revan didn't win easily; so, it's rather irrelevant to bring up. My original point regarding by what margin did Revan defeat him was more or less to say that we can't say it was the aforementioned (a slaughter).

Originally posted by Advent

Do you need me to take a picture playing the game while in a thong before you realize that the assumptions you make are completely idiotic, and aren't even backed up?



Yeah, I'll challange that.

I don't think Advent could post a picture of her doing that while playing the game.

Originally posted by Advent
Again, if you could understand that in certain texts, the meaning of the subject doesn't always need to be identified precisely. Almost the entire passage is dedicated to talking about how the Republic was engaged in combat with Malak (see what I did there? It's still completely proper, yet I didn't say "Malak's forces".
It can have multiple meanings like I pointed out above. There is no hard and fast rules about words being used in SW Databank that they always have precise meanings. A small term does not gives us a big/full picture about a thing or event until a better and more precise picture regarding an event is openly stated.

Compare these two terms now:

- Malak was unstoppable. (This term can have multiple meanings because of a usage of a single noun that refers to a single entity or character and the comment is not precise in nature.)

- But Republic emerged victorious. (Now this term has precise meaning as it is pointing towards an entity called "Republic" as a whole and it is not the name of a single character.)

The second term clearly hints on Republic Forces that were engaged with Sith Forces as a whole and not Malak alone. The first term does not clearly hints on Malak's Forces but focuses on Malak himself. Now I have a strong case backing up that Malak himself also prepared for an in-evitable clash with Revan to such an extent with help of Star Forge that he was also nearly unstoppable. And I have described this case before in detail.

Originally posted by Advent
Except that isn't the point, nor is the duel itself so much as directly mentioned in the entire paragraph (although, it notes what he did).
You haven't proved anything apart from stating your point of view. Your point of view is correct in its own way but my point of view is also correct in its own way as I am making use of those details that are missing in the SW Databank to further my case.

Originally posted by Advent
I'd advise you to stop looking up words in the dictionary, as the fact that you can't spell properly when it comes to simple words, or sentence structure seems to me to be a case of quasi-intellectualism (I mean, you continually use the word 'supposition', the fact you just started uses it, and use it often allude to that).
Dictionary is an important tool in understanding the meanings of words. You should know about its importance as you are a grown-up person now. A same sentence (unless precise in its meaning) regarding an event can have multiple meanings, especially if other missing details related to it are present and reinforce/address its nature and meaning.

Originally posted by Advent
Anyways, I've addressed this above. I also want to make note that you constantly repeat yourself when you could easily address a point, albeit incorrectly, without the lengthy, repetitive response. It's quite annoying. I know that you want your posts to look, and feel like they're superior, but they're really not. I admit my posts are long, outside of this, but I usually don't repeat myself unless need be (or it's a different post).
You haven't addressed anything apart from stating your point of view about certain terms that I mentioned here. Once again! you are not what you think you are. Stop being a dolt and try to understand the perceptions of others regarding same things that can differ from yours. You are not the only smart one in this world who is all-knowing.

Originally posted by Advent
What's that supposed to mean? You didn't even prove anything, and you really can't beat me. So much for your "EXCEPTIONAL DEBATING SKILLZ!!1111!ONEELEVEN!!". Tool.
I am not here to beat you and just stating my judgements about things and trying to explain you that peceptions about same things can differ from yours and can be correct at the sametime. And your display of immaturity in certain cases or shall I say "Girlish Behaviour" is not going to help your case when debating with me. Try to me more mature next time and read and understand what a specific line stated here is related to what case.

Those 3 cases are the only hints available regarding the Revan vs Malak case and each of them give a little different perspective about the same fight but one case does indicate that a saber clash did took place between them.

Originally posted by Advent
No, it doesn't. I'm glad you like to believe that it does, but we don't live in a fantasy world where the biggest dumbass rules.
Your case does not either. Same advice for you.

Originally posted by Advent
Take your own advice. I've played both games in the KotOR series, if you don't believe me, I'll scan the damn game (hell, I have both the PC version, and Xbox version of the sequel).

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/840/lastscanwl8.th.png

Do you need me to take a picture playing the game while in a thong before you realize that the assumptions you make are completely idiotic, and aren't even backed up?

Oh, and I'd take your own statement into considering for yourself, if I were you, seeing as it certainly doesn't apply to me.
Well you played them indeed but do not understand the events in them in a manner that I do. Take an advice: Keep your judgments in your brain and when you will learn to accept and understand views of others then come back and talk further.

Originally posted by Advent
No, it doesn't. I'm glad you like to believe that it does, but we don't live in a fantasy world where the biggest dumbass rules.



1. You're clearly lying; see above.

2. Don't even say anything like that again. You've yet to earn the rights to be able to claim something like that on here (not that you ever will, though).

3. You're an idiot.
I am not lying and you are being immature here. Anyways! I am off to sleep and will reply further tomorrow.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No one ever denied? that comment of mine cannot be denied as it suggests that a saber clash did took place between Revan and Malak though for how long, it is questionable.

You don't even make sense, Legend. In all honestly the above sentence(s?) are really confusing. Now, don't take that as "lol advent u r teh stoopid cuz u dunt undstand!", you should note that I'm saying it, because it's completely void of sense.

I said that no one ever denied they saber dueled, so why do you continuously bring it up? I even mentioned that it indicates they battled with blades, but again, not for how long, or what happened with them. This is why I say you're off the point.



Actually, it only furthers the fact that you like to twist arguments around, and defeat nonexistent ones, such as the one that I was responding to.



Legend, you're the only pseudo intellectual here, that much is apparent. If you honestly believe I'm "trying to pose smart", then you're even denser than I thought. Take a look at my debating history, you troll.

The reason that I would pass them off as invalid is explained, so you can stop while you're behind, and no lines you write later do anything to change that they (as its own statement) are wrong, regardless.



Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.



I was posting a picture relevant to the discussion. You constantly repeat yourself, when you could really address the points (or attempt to, rather) on a singular level without all the lengthy, repetitive responses, which are made in an effort to make them seem "superior" to mine, or others, when they really aren't.



Right, because that's all I've done. Please don't lecture me on how to debate, or how to respond.

The fact of the matter is, there's absolutely no reason for you to state things that I'm not arguing, and the fact that you continue to do such, is indicative of a strawman argument, which as pointed out, is fallacious. When something is "fallacious", that usually means that there should be no continuance of said something, yet you do it. Over, and over again.

These "single & certain cases" you refer to don't add to the discussion whatsoever.



Originally posted by Advent
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3466/brokenrecordlc6.png

^
That's you.



You see, the entire purpose of me making an assumption like that wasn't to necessarily say that it's absolute, or correct. Originally, it was to demonstrate the fact that we don't know what went on, and was for Nebaris' comment regarding the duel, then you later tried to respond to my argument on that, and made it seem as if you wholeheartedly agree that it was a straight lightsaber duel, or at least, the majority of it. You, as usual (see: Kavar/Drallig), took my post entirely out of context.

Seeing as you, yourself, have said that "we don't know what happened" (paraphrased), it means that my initial claims were correct. If you'll note, I say things like "specifically a saber duel", or ask "just a saber duel, as Nebaris' initial post implied?". If that doesn't tell you that I wasn't questioning the fact there were lightsabers involved, then you're an idiot.



This is exactly what I'm talking about. The perfect example of why I consider you pathetic, and why I continually say that you take things out of context, and twist them around, so as it seems you defeat my argument (otherwise known as a "strawman argument", which renders this portion void, so unlucky).

Review my rebuttal carefully, I'll highlight in bold what I'm referring to, so as you don't continue to do this:

Originally posted by Advent
Thanks for, again, proving nothing. For all we know, they had a huge Force battle initially, and ended it off in a short, two second samurai saber duel, or similar circumstances. We don't know what happened.

I use words like "for all we know", which means that we really don't know what happened (as stated at the end), yet to say that they dueled for x amount of time, or that it was a straightforward lightsaber battle (as both Nebaris', and your post implied) is ridiculous, at best. I never claimed that the examples I've given of what could've happened were right, it wasn't even the point I was trying to make.

I seriously do hope that you can understand this, as you constantly are doing the aforementioned actions, and not listening to a damn word I'm saying.



Oh my frickin' days, are you seriously that dense?

Originally posted by Advent
No one ever denied anything like that, so thanks for again, typing up a response for things of which I wasn't arguing. This is my point, you're completely off point.

And this seems to be a strawman argument, anyways, which would be a logical fallacy, try again.



How do I have "zero credibility" when I just proved what a complete fool you are above? I've stated, exactly, that they did battle using lightsabers. FFS, look, you blind bat, on every occasions you've mentioned this, I've taken the time to note that they did fight using sabers, so why do you act as if I haven't? I'm merely stating we don't know how long, nor do we know if it was a full fledged lightsaber duel, which was the entire point.

You seriously need to take some lessons in comprehension, language, and debating. And again, look at your post, you repeated yourself twice in the same point, and both times there was no reason to even mention that. You have zero credibility whatsoever, nearly everyone here considers you to be sub par, at best. Some would claim that you're not even a debater at all. So, for you to even think to mention my points as being unconceivable is ludicrous.



Quit using the thesaurus, it's really a nuisance, especially when anyone can tell a quasi-intellectual from an actual intellectual. And look (below, in your post), you continually say the same damn thing every sentence. "It was a saber clash, yay!". If you really cannot see the repetition, then I'm not even going to bother responding.



Thanks for responding directly to the point. Not.

You've committed a fallacy, so acknowledge it. And you persistently do so, ergo you're at the losing end. As well, see above, yet again, because I've explained why I'm not trying to say what you are, yet again, making it seem I am saying.



That's not a term, Einstein. Malak was termed as "nearly unstoppable", though. Anyways, they alluded to it by the entire paragraph being dedicated to the Republic forces against Malak's own. You seemed to be entirely convinced that simply because it say "Malak", and not otherwise, that you are completely correct. When will you see that you're wrong (that it isn't completely correct)?



Funny, I said the same thing before you even so much as hinted at that:

Originally posted by Advent
Even if you don't want to believe such, the quote is up for interpretation, ergo you cannot say that "Ooh! Malak himself is nearly unstoppable", and act as if it matters much, because it can be said both ways, and you can't prove yours as being absolutely correct (neither can I, but that's not what I'm trying to do anyways).

And your response consisted of "I I made your case weak. Wah, wah, wah! Mine is right". Hell, the last sentence in parentheses makes it clear that isn't what I'm trying to do.

Legend, you're really pathetic. I know that you love to make comments like "Ooh, you r an immature", and claim you even have any idea of what I'm about, but you really don't. Even then, you barely address my points, and substitute that for them.



I didn't say it was entirely "false", just read the quote that I said before you even wrote this. And, double standards do apply, you were repeatedly saying that "my case is weak", and implied that your point of view was right; whereas I at least acknowledged the possibilities. You fail.



Even in the political sense, Hitler most certainly did have an opposition. And to go along with that, it's not merely because of his "forces" (in this context, army) as you would put it, but also his political recognition, and influence.

The point I was intending to illustrate was that just because it states the subject in a singular sense, doesn't mean it isn't referring to his supplies, and the like. Whereas you seemed concrete in saying "No, it says Malak, so it is him, not his forces".

As a matter of fact, all of your posts thus far (save for this one) have an attitude that it is only talking about Malak himself, and as that being the only legitimate answer. So, save your sermon for someone else, boy.



False assumption, false statement, and false in general. Where did I give indication that it didn't power up Malak? I didn't, nor does anything I wrote suggest that. Once again, twisting shit like a twizzler, and making things appear that weren't previously there.



He doesn't need to. Malak's boosting up, or gaining difficulty only says that he gained some power in the game, not how much out of the game, nor does it say enough that it'd make him "nearly unstoppable".



I gave acknowledgment to your side as well, see above.

And the fact that I frequently express agreement when it comes down to Revan using a lightsaber (not for how long, or what went on) disagrees with your statement. So, you're lying, as much is apparent.

And really, you do sound like a broken record, I'll show you what I mean:

First point...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
it suggests that a saber clash did took place between Revan and Malak

Next point...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That PIC (which was actually a part of vision of a Jedi) showed Revan holding an ignited Saber in his hand and that was for what reason? for amusement or enjoyment purposes?

Following point...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
but that vision does suggests that a Saber clash took place between them in which Malak was finally defeated and fell while Revan's saber was still ignited.

That's progress? Rofl.



Dude, at the time, it was a current error, and a seemingly blatant lie. Not only that, but it was something you tried to play off as if you didn't say it at all, or rather, said something entirely different. You didn't say "I made a mistake", you tried to argue against it without acknowledging the supposed "grammatical error" you made (yeah, right). There's a difference.



Sure, you did, champ.



That's great. No one really cares about your opinion.



And I've shown your various little tricks. Right now, in fact, you're just trying to make it seem as if I'm in the wrong here, when in reality, you are. But, that's okay. I really could care less. So, .



How do you figure? I rarely ever make notions about the level the person I'm debating is on. I've only done it in a few, rare cases, and it only happens when someone tries to act as you do (that you're right, or disproved me). Hell, even when I put down the Ox's arguments, I never mentioned what I actually thought about his skill, or how I perceive him on the grand scale (aside from a complete dolt ); even though it seemed as if I hated him.



Stop being a senile old man (as Nebaris would say), and quit repeating yourself.



According to whom? I didn't realize you were the dictator of the forum. Sieg Heil! Anyways, I can discuss, point out, or make fun of your horrible grammar any time I want to, so shut the hell up already.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dictionary is an important tool in understanding the meanings of words.

No, I meant that as you look up words in the dictionary in a effort to sound like you: a) know what you're talking about, and b) are smart. I've also noticed that you take what I say to you, and flip it around, even when it doesn't apply.



Originally posted by Advent
Again, if you could understand that in certain texts, the meaning of the subject doesn't always need to be identified precisely.



You are such a poser, Legend. I called you (and use it almost every day) this in our debate, now you're using it (when you have never used it before)? Again, you prove what a copycat you are. One, I might add, that can't even formulate sentences or words without consulting either: someone else's post, or a thesaurus.

Both in an attempt, albeit failed, to sound smart.



So, you're calling me "all-knowing" (again, a word I just used; which furthers the point that you copy, and paste shit)? Good to know.

If you knew how to properly structure your sentences, you wouldn't sound so feeble minded. As you can see, you just called me "all-knowing", and there is no way around that from the way you worded your sentence.

I find it hilarious at best that one individual could type up such elaborate words, correctly, every time; yet when it comes to things like tenses, and making sentences grammatically correct, or spelling, you fail horribly (and quite often). Your kind is a dime a dozen, though, so don't feel left out.



Try to comprehend my basic sentences, try not to misinterpret, and then misrepresent my perspectives on matters in an effort to make up for the intelligence that you lack.

Also, quit saying the same lines. You just look more, and more foolish each time I point it out. Do you think it's going to go away, or something?



But, you really are, because you said that you "proved my case to be weak". Any reader can see that's not the case; the opposite, however, is true.

As a final statement that I'm going to make, from now on, every time you repeat yourself, I'm going to continue to post that picture. If I would've done it in this specific response, it would've been done at least twenty times. I'm going to have to repeat myself though, I'd like everyone to realize that the reason he constantly says the same things is to make his posts look longer (and thus, feel "superior), but they really aren't.

Anyways, I know all of your tactics, so I'd advise that you knock them off, and stick to debating, and jokes. Calling me "immature", or saying that "my points are weakened" is stupid, for lack of a better word, because it's not true in the least bit, and only used so it seems that it is true.



Originally posted by Advent
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3466/brokenrecordlc6.png

^
That's you.

Um...yes...

Anyways, the paragraph in question says this:

This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic. The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

Its silly to pick and choose which one explanation you want to go with on either side: that it was all about Malak's own personal power or that it was about his endless fleet of warships. As you can see the sections I bolded are clearly talking about both his personal and military power, since both are mentioned with the next phrase following being: "nearly unstoppable" its logical to assume that you both would be correct.

Originally posted by Advent
If you seriously say that one more time, I'm going to reach through my monitor, and kick your ass. What relevance does this have, at all? The only thing it seemingly means is that it wasn't a squash match, which says that Revan didn't win easily; so, it's rather irrelevant to bring up. My original point regarding by what margin did Revan defeat him was more or less to say that we can't say it was the aforementioned (a slaughter).
LOL! I shall be intrigued if you manage to pull off such a move. Revan did not win easily due to strong preparations that made Malak nearly unstoppable. I never said that Revan slaughtered Malak instantly on Star Forge. Even Yoda could not do that.

And I will respond to your further posts later on.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Um...yes...

Anyways, the paragraph in question says this:

This confrontation erupted into a massive battle as Republic fleet forces arrived to attack the Star Forge. Endless streams of ships poured forth from the Star Forge, striking against the amassed warships of the Republic. The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

Its silly to pick and choose which one explanation you want to go with on either side: that it was all about Malak's own personal power or that it was about his endless fleet of warships. As you can see the sections I bolded are clearly talking about both his personal and military power, since both are mentioned with the next phrase following being: "nearly unstoppable" its logical to assume that you both would be correct.
Thanks ACStyles!

You solved a problem regarding Malak himself also making nearly unstoppable.

I made a huge explanation regarding this and also stated that both assumptions can be considered and she still did not get it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I made a huge explanation regarding this and also stated that both assumptions can be considered and she still did not get it.

Originally posted by Advent
Even if you don't want to believe such, the quote is up for interpretation, ergo you cannot say that "Ooh! Malak himself is nearly unstoppable", and act as if it matters much, because it can be said both ways, and you can't prove yours as being absolutely correct (neither can I, but that's not what I'm trying to do anyways).

You were saying? Seriously. Now, not only did I say what you said, except in a shorter form, but I said it before you even made the remark. I'm not even going to be bothered with the repetition, and continuous strawman arguments, as even without reading through, I can already see what you're doing.

Edit:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And I am not lying about Kavar as proven above.

Again, further proof that you misconstrue nearly every single point I make. Let's take a look at what I was responding to:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Contrary to all this I have not seen much from Cin Drallig. He was known to have mastered Form I and Form VI and thats it.

Now, you clearly were lying, and/or misinformed, because I provided viable evidence which proves he's had complete training in all forms (again, except for Vaapad). I never said that you were making false statements regarding Kavar. Just goes to show how incompetent one can be.

Look at that, I skimmed through your argument, and can find two examples right away. This is why I cannot be bothered with you, and why I hold you on the level that I do. Need I continue?

Moreover, you don't want to listen to me when I tell you that "I get the point ", and that you commit the strawman fallacy left, and right. That's why I sent you the PM that I did, as you can see, I was clearly right about you.

Originally posted by Advent
You were saying? Seriously. Now, not only did I say what you said, except in a shorter form, but I said it before you even made the remark. I'm not even going to be bothered with the repetition, and continuous strawman arguments, as even without reading through, I can already see what you're doing.
You failed to grasp about what I said regarding Malak also making himself nearly unstoppable. And you constantly argued against it and suggested that only your assertion was true.

Here is what I said before:



Did you even paid attention to what I said here? I don't think so.

I meant that your perspective and my perspective can both be true and can fit according to that line.

Now as evident from SW Databank, both our perspectives were mentioned in shorter words.

Originally posted by Advent
Edit:



Again, further proof that you misconstrue nearly every single point I make. Let's take a look at what I was responding to:
And your lack of understanding of any single point of mine is what makes this debate worst. You fail to grasp what I say and continue to chant baseless slogans regarding my comments. This shows your lack of concentration.

Originally posted by Advent
Now, you clearly were lying, and/or misinformed, because I provided viable evidence which proves he's had complete training in all forms (again, except for Vaapad). I never said that you were making false statements regarding Kavar. Just goes to show how incompetent one can be.
My above lastest posts rectify all the issues regarding explaining Kavar and some other points as well. Read them and you will know. Now my points are as pure as possible.

Originally posted by Advent
Look at that, I skimmed through your argument, and can find two examples right away. This is why I cannot be bothered with you, and why I hold you on the level that I do. Need I continue?
You just skim and thats it. You never try to understand what I say and even do not notice errors that get rectified later on. You are not good at paying attention.

Originally posted by Advent
Moreover, you don't want to listen to me when I tell you that "I get the point ", and that you commit the strawman fallacy left, and right. That's why I sent you the PM that I did, as you can see, I was clearly right about you.
No! it is you who don't want to listen as evident from your feeble arguments now. You only like to insult and thats it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You failed to grasp about what I said regarding Malak also making himself nearly unstoppable. And you constantly argued against it and suggested that only your assertion was true.

Do I hear an echo?

Originally posted by Advent
I didn't say it was entirely "false", just read the quote that I said before you even wrote this. And, double standards do apply, you were repeatedly saying that "my case is weak", and implied that your point of view was right; whereas I at least acknowledged the possibilities. You fail.

Aside from the fact you like mimicking me, I said, exactly, that "it can be said both ways", which implies that, indeed, both assumptions can be true, but you cannot continually act as if what you said was absolutely right, which I labeled as the point.

Look at the last line in parentheses of the aforementioned quote (the previous post I made), I even noted "neither can I", which meant that I wasn't trying to claim mine as undeniable fact, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make anyways.

Furthermore, I even outright acknowledged that I wasn't trying to say your point of view was completely wrong ("I didn't say it was entirely 'false'...". Now, do you need me to further clarify this? Or will you accept that you misinterpreted my side, or the more likely case, misrepresented it, because as of now, you're not doing a good job of providing acceptable reasoning behind your posts.

So, try again.



See above; did you? No, not at all.



"Lack of concentration"? No, it only shows that you cannot comprehend basic English. I perfectly understand everything you say (unless it's constructed in the way that you've made it seem like your lacking in evolution).



Goodness gracious, that wasn't the point I was making. You responded to the point where I called you out on "lying, and/or being misinformed", and said that you didn't lie about Kavar. Why? I wasn't talking about Kavar at all, I was merely telling you that Cin mastered more forms than you named (and you said 'that's it', indicating you were either lying, and/or misinformed).

This isn't about Kavar, at all. So, I don't know why you keep on saying that I "fail to grasp" this, and that, when it's not me, but you in reality.

Plus, you didn't acknowledge that Cin mastered more forms in your previous posts, so you can't wiggle your way out of this one, worm.



Really? So you're in the closet nearest my computer, and watching my every movements? Can you read minds, as well?

I said that I skimmed through your previous post, not all of them. And, I read all the relevant things concerning what I'm about to address, before I address them. If I didn't, I'd be considered someone like you, but that's not how it is.

The rest of your post (or whatever the hell it is) just consists of you turning what you do, and applying it to me, when I don't do any of it, and just more ridiculousness.

And, more assorted comments:



And Arca Jeth, who would be considered as an average Jedi master on the grand scale, trained Ulic Qel-Droma. The same Ulic Qel-Droma that became the second most powerful being of his era (and one of the most powerful in known history), and who was considered the largest threat before Exar Kun revealed himself.

Training one doesn't account for much. As you've noted, Kreia was more or less the Exile's mentor than anyone. Likewise, with Cin, and Obi-Wan and Anakin, but the reason I said you point doesn't hold any value is because Cin trained Anakin Skywalker, "the most powerful Jedi Knight ever" in the history of the Order, and defeated one of the most powerful beings in the entire mythos, Count Dooku. The point your trying to make gets negated, because Anakin is better than the Exile, so why did you need to bring it up? Plus, training a student isn't indicative of much, anyways.



Wait, so because Kavar mastered Juyo, or various other forms, he's "a more skilled swordsman"? That's fallacious logic in itself, I should point out that - as far as you yourself have indicated - Kavar only mastered five lightsaber forms, compared to Drallig's six.

Once again, a point in the direction that you don't really make sense.



You have absolutely no proof behind that. I already know what you're going to say, too. "Advent ur immature, but Kavar has Juyo under his belt, so he's better! Although, I left out the part where it says that Cin mastered six forms, which is one more than Kavar, but forget that! KAVAR IS AWESOME!".

Legend, my question for you is, why are you still here? You have been thorougly pwned in this debate, and yet you keep coming back with your repetitious and inconsequential nonsense.

Kavar did instantly stun about 15 soldiers surrounding him, which is pretty impressive, and sword fighting was his forte/, so it can be assumed that he was pretty skilled.

Agreed, but, let's keep it at "Pretty skilled."

Originally posted by Advent
Do I hear an echo?
No! an answer! but oh well!

Originally posted by Advent
Aside from the fact you like mimicking me, I said, exactly, that "it can be said both ways", which implies that, indeed, both assumptions can be true, but you cannot continually act as if what you said was absolutely right, which I labeled as the point.

Look at the last line in parentheses of the aforementioned quote (the previous post I made), I even noted "neither can I", which meant that I wasn't trying to claim mine as undeniable fact, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make anyways.

Furthermore, I even outright acknowledged that I wasn't trying to say your point of view was completely wrong ("I didn't say it was entirely 'false'...". Now, do you need me to further clarify this? Or will you accept that you misinterpreted my side, or the more likely case, misrepresented it, because as of now, you're not doing a good job of providing acceptable reasoning behind your posts.

So, try again.
Alright! you have a point.

Originally posted by Advent
See above; did you? No, not at all.
Understood.

Originally posted by Advent
"Lack of concentration"? No, it only shows that you cannot comprehend basic English. I perfectly understand everything you say (unless it's constructed in the way that you've made it seem like your lacking in evolution).
I can comprehend basic English. You are more specific now than you were before.

Originally posted by Advent
Goodness gracious, that wasn't the point I was making. You responded to the point where I called you out on "lying, and/or being misinformed", and said that you didn't lie about Kavar. Why? I wasn't talking about Kavar at all, I was merely telling you that Cin mastered more forms than you named (and you said 'that's it', indicating you were either lying, and/or misinformed).

This isn't about Kavar, at all. So, I don't know why you keep on saying that I "fail to grasp" this, and that, when it's not me, but you in reality.
I got it but I wanted to tell that Kavar seems better because of obvious reasons I have posted before. I don't consider Anakin's victory over Cin as something to take in to consideration with great importance as we have not seen much from Cin. But Anakin's victory over Dooku is one thing that I do acknowledge as a great victory.

Originally posted by Advent
Plus, you didn't acknowledge that Cin mastered more forms in your previous posts, so you can't wiggle your way out of this one, worm.
I know that Cin mastered all Forms apart from Form VII Combat styles. I should have written "to" in case of "and" but I wrote in hurry and a mistake happened. Next time I won't write in such a hurry as I made recent posts with more concentration than before.

Originally posted by Advent
Really? So you're in the closet nearest my computer, and watching my every movements? Can you read minds, as well?
I did not meant that.

Originally posted by Advent
I said that I skimmed through your previous post, not all of them. And, I read all the relevant things concerning what I'm about to address, before I address them. If I didn't, I'd be considered someone like you, but that's not how it is.
Addressing points is acceptable. I agree with this but being more specific helps, as you did now.

Originally posted by Advent
The rest of your post (or whatever the hell it is) just consists of you turning what you do, and applying it to me, when I don't do any of it, and just more ridiculousness.
We both had a sort of misunderstanding and now I can see that what you meant. Since I have debated with you not very often before so it took some time for me to grasp your debating style and mentality. Next time things will be more clear and right and chances of misunderstanding would be low. But do not resort to insulting tones as you did before. I don't like it.

Originally posted by Advent
And, more assorted comments:

And Arca Jeth, who would be considered as an average Jedi master on the grand scale, trained Ulic Qel-Droma. The same Ulic Qel-Droma that became the second most powerful being of his era (and one of the most powerful in known history), and who was considered the largest threat before Exar Kun revealed himself.
Arca Jeth was average but I was talking about Kavar who was among the top Jedi Masters of his age and had some exceptional skills that I mentioned now.

Jedi Exile also became one of the most powerful Jedi we have seen but her recognition level is low. I understand your point that even if a Jedi Master trains a great Jedi, that does not makes him better but same applies to Cin. He did trained Anakin and Obi-Wan but they proved to be better than him. But again I am not relying on Kavar's training of Jedi Exile to make him look good. I have pointed out many other points that make him look good.

Originally posted by Advent
Training one doesn't account for much. As you've noted, Kreia was more or less the Exile's mentor than anyone. Likewise, with Cin, and Obi-Wan and Anakin, but the reason I said you point doesn't hold any value is because Cin trained Anakin Skywalker, "the most powerful Jedi Knight ever" in the history of the Order, and defeated one of the most powerful beings in the entire mythos, Count Dooku. The point your trying to make gets negated, because Anakin is better than the Exile, so why did you need to bring it up? Plus, training a student isn't indicative of much, anyways.
Once again, my other points show that Kavar was good. He was a skilled swordsman, a famous person and also had good knowledge of Force.

Originally posted by Advent
Wait, so because Kavar mastered Juyo, or various other forms, he's "a more skilled swordsman"? That's fallacious logic in itself, I should point out that - as far as you yourself have indicated - Kavar only mastered five lightsaber forms, compared to Drallig's six.
I was talking about quality and not quantity. Dralling mastered several Saber Forms and so did Kavar, who even mastered Juyo. Now Kavar had some experience because of his participation in wars/conflicts and using Juyo in combat, he could be more effective in fight than Dralling. Juyo Form is called "Ferosity" Form and it makes a Jedi reckless and un-predictable in combat. As Juyo was the most challenging and demanding of all forms, it required intense focus, a high degree of skill, and mastery of other forms. Kavar was so adept in it that he said that Juyo was a complete and effective Form and he preferred it. Now I know that you know about Juyo but still don't you think that a Juyo adept who also has experience in combat will do better than Dralling? And what Saber Form Drallig used against Anakin?

Originally posted by Advent
Once again, a point in the direction that you don't really make sense.
And these types of lines spoil the mood of a debate. I made my case more clear above now.

Originally posted by Advent
You have absolutely no proof behind that. I already know what you're going to say, too. "Advent ur immature, but Kavar has Juyo under his belt, so he's better! Although, I left out the part where it says that Cin mastered six forms, which is one more than Kavar, but forget that! KAVAR IS AWESOME!".
I will not say absurd things when you will be more clear and I have asked a question above. Waiting to see your perception now regarding the effectiveness of a Juyo fighter.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Legend, my question for you is, why are you still here? You have been thorougly pwned in this debate, and yet you keep coming back with your repetitious and inconsequential nonsense.
Do you have anything better to say apart from saying "owned and "pwned"?

Your debating skills are not even close to that of Advent and I am trying to understand what Advent is saying. Check my above post for indications.

If you have something better to say than do so or keep quiet. I am not here to defeat any one in the debate and want to learn more about Star Wars and I think that I can get some help from advent in this case.

Thanks for nothing.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your debating skills are not even close to that of Advent and I am trying to understand what Advent is saying. Check my above post for indications.
Nobody said my debating skills were on the level of Advent, but they are good enough to shut you up.. Or so I thought. It is my right to say "pwned" because being capable of using common sense, "pwned" is the only logical conclusion I could come up with.


If you are not here to defeat anybody, you should have quit 3 pages ago. As Advent said, you sound like a broken record.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nobody said my debating skills were on the level of Advent, but they are good enough to shut you up.. Or so I thought. It is my right to say "pwned" because being capable of using common sense, "pwned" is the only logical conclusion I could come up with.
You can shut me up in some cases but not in all.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
If you are not here to defeat anybody, you should have quit 3 pages ago. As Advent said, you sound like a broken record.
That is my problem and not yours. You wan't to contribute in the debate then do so by providing some arguments and reasoning and not idiotic comments.

ACStyles shared something here and did not post crap like you did.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You can shut me up in some cases but not in all.


That is my problem and not yours. You wan't to contribute in the debate then do so by providing some arguments and reasoning and not idiotic comments.

ACStyles shared something here and did not post crap like you did.


I guess you missed the entire purpose of the first amendment. It is my god given right to post when I want, what I want, etc. I am doing YOU a favor by letting you know that further posting will result in more embarassment for you, since you like to take up 3 pages of space with repitituous bullshit. So next time instead of bitching, I want a thank you..

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I guess you missed the entire purpose of the first amendment. It is my god given right to post when I want, what I want, etc. I am doing YOU a favor by letting you know that further posting will result in more embarassment for you, since you like to take up 3 pages of space with repitituous bullshit. So next time instead of bitching, I want a thank you..
It is no longer a case of embarrasment as Advent understood my sensitivity level and posted informative things in her last post. I am not stoping you from posting here but just asking you to post some good and informative things and if you happen to disagree with some of my points as some people probably would, just point out them and I will respond and we will have a reasonable discussion. Otherwise you don't need to post silly remarks (Note: no pun intended here) as no one is doing so except you.

It is not a contest of superiority going on over here and not all of my points are wrong either.

Oh, and things like where I bring up General Grievous, or Obi-Wan Kenobi, or other various things about Soresu against Juyo (or Soresu in general) aren't really applicable much, I was merely bringing them up, just to mention them. Similar to like what I'm doing now, just mentioning. They really don't warrant any response, nor were they made to attract one.

The only real relevant thing regarding Juyo, and Cin's forms is simply that because Kavar attained mastery in Juyo, doesn't necessarily mean, in the least bit, that he's more 'skilled'. It's substandard usage of logic, and it doesn't signify what you're supposing. As well, the example given with Darth Maul furthers that, and the part where I note about an encounter between the two being a stalemate is important, too. Things like that compared to statements that were said in my initial few sentences are the only real things that need to be taken into consideration.

Originally posted by Advent
Oh, and things like where I bring up General Grievous, or Obi-Wan Kenobi, or other various things about Soresu against Juyo (or Soresu in general) aren't really applicable much, I was merely bringing them up, just to mention them. Similar to like what I'm doing now, just mentioning. They really don't warrant any response, nor were they made to attract one.

The only real relevant thing regarding Juyo, and Cin's forms is simply that because Kavar attained mastery in Juyo, doesn't necessarily mean, in the least bit, that he's more 'skilled'. It's substandard usage of logic, and it doesn't signify what you're supposing. As well, the example given with Darth Maul furthers that, and the part where I note about an encounter between the two being a stalemate is important, too. Things like that compared to statements that were said in my initial few sentences are the only real things that need to be taken into consideration.


Lol...

This is so romantic.

Advent would do just about anything fer her Anakin...

Its like what gideon said legend, you argue and argue and argue and when your arguements get torn apart you still go on argueing with the same thing which advent has refuted

Originally posted by Kadesh
Its like what gideon said legend, you argue and argue and argue and when your arguements get torn apart you still go on argueing with the same thing which advent has refuted
I am getting tired from these baseless comments. How many points do you think that have gotten refuted here?

Here I can make a summary for some of you to understand:

First of all, I and advent had some sort of misunderstanding between us, as we both were not familiar with each other's mentality, senstivity level and debating methods. This thing has got resolved in the end now.

- Now the points under discussion between me and Advent were:

A) Cin Drallig
B) Kavar
C) Kavar vs Cin
D) Malak being nearly unstoppable
E) Clash between Malak and Revan

A) Cin Drallig: In this case I and advent both have posted our views and both our views hold some water. Advent and I both agree that Cin is among the best in the PT Order. We also know that Cin practised/mastered Saber Forms I, II, III, IV, V and VI. Then my further point was that Cin is an unknown person because he has hardly ever actively participated in wars and this is true and has not yet been refuted.

B) Kavar: I discussed some capabilities of Kavar here. You can read his details in my top post in this page. Advent has agreed with most of what I said about him except for a single mistake that I made by saying that he practised Force Lightning but I rectified this mistake.

C) Kavar vs Cin: Advent says that she considers them to be equal. This is her perception. I say that Kavar is over-all little better then Cin due to some reasons I mentioned. This is my perception but still I am not arguing further about it because kavar is also an unknown individual when it came to combat apart from what we saw in KOTOR II. We also agreed that Kavar and Cin do not get any better by training some notable persons. And I agree with what Advent said about Saber Combat Styles so Kavar would might or might not hold an advantage over Cin in case of a pure Saber combat. So over-all we have some sort of agreement here. But I give this to Advent as she made a good point regarding Saber combat and made case of Cin stronger then before.

D) Malak being nearly unstoppable: Now I made my assertion regarding this and advent also made hers regarding this and both of our perceptions are correct and we both agree with perceptions of each others. Even SW Databank made this case clear for both of us to some extent and our perceptions are mentioned there in shorter forms. This is pure stalemate.

E) Clash between Revan and Malak: Now I provided three cases regarding this for supporting my claim that a long Saber Clash took place between Revan and Malak on Star Forge. Now Advent refuted two of those cases but my one case (the vision of Duron) saved my main point to some extent and it suggests that a saber clash did took place between Revan and Malak on Star Forge. But of-course I conceded that we don't know that this was an epic saber clash or not but we do know that over-all clash between Revan and Malak was an epic one. So Advent made a good counter argument here and I changed my perception from "long saber clash" to "a saber clash" but we both still don't know the whole story of this fight. So it is useless for any person to argue in this case.

This is what has happened so far here apart from some misunderstandings between me and Advent. So I don't think that there was a superiority contest going on over here and nor all my points are refuted. Initially we were hostile to each other but that is no longer a case here.

So before passing judgements, either improve your concentration level or don't reply until you have something useful to say. Thanks.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am getting tired from these baseless comments. How many points do you think that have gotten refuted here?

Here I can make a summary for some of you to understand:

First of all, I and advent had some sort of misunderstanding between us, as we both were not familiar with each other's mentality, senstivity level and debating methods. This thing has got resolved in the end now.

- Now the points under discussion between me and Advent were:

A) Cin Drallig
B) Kavar
C) Kavar vs Cin
D) Malak being nearly unstoppable
E) Clash between Malak and Revan

A) Cin Drallig: In this case I and advent both have posted our views and both our views hold some water. Advent and I both agree that Cin is among the best in the PT Order. We also know that Cin practised/mastered Saber Forms I, II, III, IV, V and VI. Then my further point was that Cin is an unknown person because he has hardly ever actively participated in wars and this is true and has not yet been refuted.

B) Kavar: I discussed some capabilities of Kavar here. You can read his details in my top post in this page. Advent has agreed with most of what I said about him except for a single mistake that I made by saying that he practised Force Lightning but I rectified this mistake.

C) Kavar vs Cin: Advent says that she considers them to be equal. This is her perception. I say that Kavar is over-all little better then Cin due to some reasons I mentioned. This is my perception but still I am not arguing further about it because kavar is also an unknown individual when it came to combat apart from what we saw in KOTOR II. We also agreed that Kavar and Cin do not get any better by training some notable persons. And I agree with what Advent said about Saber Combat Styles so Kavar would might or might not hold an advantage over Cin in case of a pure Saber combat. So over-all we have some sort of agreement here. But I give this to Advent as she made a good point regarding Saber combat and made case of Cin stronger then before.

D) Malak being nearly unstoppable: Now I made my assertion regarding this and advent also made hers regarding this and both of our perceptions are correct and we both agree with perceptions of each others. Even SW Databank made this case clear for both of us to some extent and our perceptions are mentioned there in shorter forms. This is pure stalemate.

E) Clash between Revan and Malak: Now I provided three cases regarding this for supporting my claim that a long Saber Clash took place between Revan and Malak on Star Forge. Now Advent refuted two of those cases but my one case (the vision of Duron) saved my main point to some extent and it suggests that a saber clash did took place between Revan and Malak on Star Forge. But of-course I conceded that we don't know that this was an epic saber clash or not but we do know that over-all clash between Revan and Malak was an epic one. So Advent made a good counter argument here and I changed my perception from "long saber clash" to "a saber clash" but we both still don't know the whole story of this fight. So it is useless for any person to argue in this case.

This is what has happened so far here apart from some misunderstandings between me and Advent. So I don't think that there was a superiority contest going on over here and nor all my points are refuted. Initially we were hostile to each other but that is no longer a case here.

So before passing judgements, either improve your concentration level or don't reply until you have something useful to say. Thanks. This is not the point. Remember the DE sidious vs revan thread? Your arguements of revan beating sidious have been torn apart and you go on argueing with the same shit that has been refuted. Yet you still go on argueing with things that are irrelevant
And remember the njo luke gauntlet? Advent, lightsnake and darth sexy brutally tore apart your arguements about the emerald lightning debate, yet you still go on until advent annihilated you completely.

Last thing legend, what i cannot stand when i debate with you is when you derail things. For example, about the whole shit about revan being more than twice the power of dooku which is impossible. like dooku is close to vader in power and if revan is more than twice the power, that makes him stronger than sidious, i destroyed that point and guess what you were argueing, You then changed your words by saying "ok, but he is still close to twice as powerful" and you still go on argueing as if you were assuming that he was close to being twice as powerful in the first place which by the way you did not.

I am merely repeating what gideon said. You just go on argueing and argueing and argueing, just like the last statement i said and im not even trying to argue, you still argue and i will bet once you read this, you will quote these 3 paragraphs to argue.

Originally posted by Kadesh
This is not the point. Remember the DE sidious vs revan thread? Your arguements of revan beating sidious have been torn apart and you go on argueing with the same shit that has been refuted. Yet you still go on argueing with things that are irrelevant
Is this thread about Sidious vs Revan? And I personally said so many times that Sidious can defeat Revan. Did this flew over year head?

Originally posted by Kadesh
And remember the njo luke gauntlet? Advent, lightsnake and darth sexy brutally tore apart your arguements about the emerald lightning debate, yet you still go on until advent annihilated you completely.
And I conceded. Anything else?

Once again this thread is not about Luke and Sidious and Force Lightning.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Last thing legend, what i cannot stand when i debate with you is when you derail things. For example, about the whole shit about revan being more than twice the power of dooku which is impossible. like dooku is close to vader in power and if revan is more than twice the power, that makes him stronger than sidious, i destroyed that point and guess what you were argueing, You then changed your words by saying "ok, but he is still close to twice as powerful" and you still go on argueing as if you were assuming that he was close to being twice as powerful in the first place which by the way you did not.
It was you who actually said that Dooku was about 50% of Sidious? Did you not?

And I used your argument to make my case that Revan is close to being 2x of Dooku, since he is more then 80% of Sidious. But of-course we don't know that how strong Dooku really was but I can safely say that he is not in the leagues of Revan, Yoda, Sidious, Kun and Luke.

So neither you or I could make a perfect assertion on that case. I only used your argument to make my case.

Originally posted by Kadesh
I am merely repeating what gideon said. You just go on argueing and argueing and argueing, just like the last statement i said and im not even trying to argue, you still argue and i will bet once you read this, you will quote these 3 paragraphs to argue.
Gideon is silent and so are others. A debate took place between me and Advent and it is up to me to respond when I like or not. You want to contribute then do so by posting something useful.

You see? you still want to argue and argue and argue. i just merely pointed out of what you do which annoys me and you choose to argue

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Is this thread about Sidious vs Revan? And I personally said so many times that Sidious can defeat Revan. Did this flew over year head?


And I conceded. Anything else?
Good to hear you conceded, because i can quote what you typed to hint that revan can beat sidious, i have a quote on my waiting list
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Once again this thread is not about Luke and Sidious and Force Lightning. I never said it was, i just pointed out you kept argueing about lightning even as DS and LS smashed you till advent and gideon completely annihilated you

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It was you who actually said that Dooku was about 50% of Sidious? Did you not? I did, but that was after you claimed revan being more than twice the power. And when i said that, you conceded that point and went on to argue that revan is now close to being twice the power, The point is, you are so persistent in argueing weather you concede or not
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And I used your argument to make my case that Revan is close to being 2x of Dooku, since he is more then 80% of Sidious. But of-course we don't know that how strong Dooku really was but I can safely say that he is not in the leagues of Revan, Yoda, Sidious, Kun and Luke. Exactly. but that was after my assumption buut you still argue, see the above
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So neither you or I could make a perfect assertion on that case. I only used your argument to make my case. Yes but that was to shut your nonsense of claiming revan is more than twice the power of dooku which isnt true

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Gideon is silent and so are others. A debate took place between me and Advent and it is up to me to respond when I like or not. You want to contribute then do so by posting something useful. Really? Ds and gideon both commented on you, and so did i.

All im saying legend and im saying it as a friend, Dont keep argueing when people prove you wrong, you arent right all the time and so am i. And dont always start an arguement which will get heated

Originally posted by Kadesh
You see? you still want to argue and argue and argue. i just merely pointed out of what you do which annoys me and you choose to argue
And what are you trying to prove here? I stop arguing when things get settled. This is what others do as well.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Good to hear you conceded, because i can quote what you typed to hint that revan can beat sidious, i have a quote on my waiting list
Yeah! that quote based on Force Lightning Storm. Let me tell you one thing Kadesh! forget it because it is a very old comment. If I start digging about your past mistakes here then it will not look good. Don't bring past things here to prove your irrelevant point here.

Originally posted by Kadesh
I never said it was, i just pointed out you kept argueing about lightning even as DS and LS smashed you till advent and gideon completely annihilated you
Once again! shall I remind you that you got smashed twice by Advent? Is it really relevant? I stopped arguing in that thread because I conceded. If I had argue and argue and argue as you claim, I would have done that in that thread. But I didn't and your point holds no water.

Originally posted by Kadesh
I did, but that was after you claimed revan being more than twice the power. And when i said that, you conceded that point and went on to argue that revan is now close to being twice the power, The point is, you are so persistent in argueing weather you concede or not
Once again bringing up past things is irrelevant. Revan's Force Mastery might be twice as good as that of Dooku but it does not means that he is twice as better in all other categories. That argument was old. Forget it and move on.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Exactly. but that was after my assumption buut you still argue, see the above
Irrelevant to this topic.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes but that was to shut your nonsense of claiming revan is more than twice the power of dooku which isnt true
Again irrelevant and old. Post something new.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Really? Ds and gideon both commented on you, and so did i.
Passing comments on others is bad thing. I know that people can do that but they kept silent afterwards. You should do the same if you don't have anything relevant to say. I don't taunt you in threads when you argue against others, so you should not do the same.

Originally posted by Kadesh
All im saying legend and im saying it as a friend, Dont keep argueing when people prove you wrong, you arent right all the time and so am i. And dont always start an arguement which will get heated
Want to stay friendly, follow my advice and stop bringing old issues here again and again.

Revans Force mastery isn't twice better then Dookus, then Sids would be even more and he would easily defeat Dooku.

Anakin would beat Revan, and even if you believe Revan had greater force mastery (so did Dooku) Anakin had a great defense against that... overwhelming offense.

I agree, but if Revan used Force in the beginning of the fight, when there is some distance between the fighters, he would have a chance of wining.

I hate to say it, but it depends on if they're using movie logic or EU logic , and i think you all know what i mean. EU characters are typically way overpowered, and have feats that go far beyond the capabilities that were set forth by GL. In any case, Anakin would most likely win -- Dooku was a fair distance away from the both of them and made it a point to jump down and walk over and get pwned. No guarantees that Revan will blast off with a fore attack right off the bat. Being that they are in fact characters whose only personality comes from the authors that create them, its hard to predict how a certain character would begin a fight. We can speculate and theorize, but thats about it. We cant say, "Oh, Revan will wtfpwn Anakin with teh uber f0rCe p0w3rs cause he's better than Dooku!" It doesn't really work that way...

But i think Anakin will win if it goes to saber, which i believe it ultimately would.

Yea, but like you said, we don't know that much about Revan, we don't know how he enters fights, we know Dooku likes lightsaber combat most then anything, we cant say the same thing for Revan and i said that Revan has a chance of wining, not wining for sure in an overall fight, but he would defiantly lose in a lightsaber fight.

True...i was merely pointing that angle out.

Originally posted by Allankles
Anakin would beat Revan, and even if you believe Revan had greater force mastery (so did Dooku) Anakin had a great defense against that... overwhelming offense.

You're an idiot, I can't even begin to describe it.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I hate to say it, but it depends on if they're using movie logic or EU logic , and i think you all know what i mean. EU characters are typically way overpowered, and have feats that go far beyond the capabilities that were set forth by GL. In any case, Anakin would most likely win -- Dooku was a fair distance away from the both of them and made it a point to jump down and walk over and get pwned. No guarantees that Revan will blast off with a fore attack right off the bat. Being that they are in fact characters whose only personality comes from the authors that create them, its hard to predict how a certain character would begin a fight. We can speculate and theorize, but thats about it. We cant say, "Oh, Revan will wtfpwn Anakin with teh uber f0rCe p0w3rs cause he's better than Dooku!" It doesn't really work that way...

But i think Anakin will win if it goes to saber, which i believe it ultimately would.

One of the dumbest things I've ever read.

What, why is is dumb, you just cant say it and offer no explanation.

It's dumb because there's no difference between "EU logic" and GL logic. Logic is logic, characters are portrayed differently, that's all.

Oh, but i still don't see Revan vining in a saber fight.

Good for you, we don't know much about Revan's skill, so probably. Anakin has no chance winning a force duel.

Anakin had no chance to win a Force duel against Dooku and look what happened.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Anakin had no chance to win a Force duel against Dooku and look what happened.

We dont know ENOUGH about Revan's lightsaber skills, so we cant know WHO'S BETTER. Theres really no way to know who will WIN. But what we know is enough to prove this wont be a "Anakin wins by far" or "Revan wins by far" duel. Though, if Revan's lightsaber skills are good enough to make it a long fight, his Force powers would probably affect in the fight, cuz most probably in a long fight Anakin would get distracted in a moment or Revan would use any lack of Anakin's concentration in his advantage.

Why would Anakin get distracted?

I dont know, i just set an example. It could happend to Revan as well. Or probably something similar to what happened in the duel against Obi-Wan could happen. He thinks he is more powerful than the enemy so he gets too confident about himself. That could be an advantage for Revan.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It's dumb because there's no difference between "EU logic" and GL logic. Logic is logic, characters are portrayed differently, that's all.

OK so logic was the wrong word, but you know what i mean...in the EU, characters can attack from lightyears away, supposedly move moons, and all that shit; in the movies all they can do is jump high and move some shit around if not really distracted. Completely different, and you know it. So because you look down from your mighty pedestal and argue the semantics of what I said in the first sentence, rather than the point, doesn't make the entire post dumb.

And portrayal means shit...Nebaris portrays himself as a god debater...how do you portray him? The characters aren't portrayed different, they're given god-like powers, and compared to the movies, they (the abilities) are ridiculous.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And what are you trying to prove here? I stop arguing when things get settled. This is what others do as well. Not really. all it takes for alot of us to shut up and get things settled is when advent steps in, and when she stepped on you proving you wrong, you kept going on and on

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yeah! that quote based on Force Lightning Storm. Let me tell you one thing Kadesh! forget it because it is a very old comment. If I start digging about your past mistakes here then it will not look good. Don't bring past things here to prove your irrelevant point here.
Firstly, i never said it is relevant. All i point out is what you do that annoys me. but fine since you are willing to concende ill do so too.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Once again! shall I remind you that you got smashed twice by Advent? Is it really relevant? I stopped arguing in that thread because I conceded. If I had argue and argue and argue as you claim, I would have done that in that thread. But I didn't and your point holds no water.
Oh i have been trashed by advent more than twice, everybody here has. And you did argue and argue, even as DS Ls and advent stepped in. as i said, if advent is gonna take part in the debate, she just has to make one post to shut us all up, and you still go on argueing and at the same time trashed again. But since you want me to concede on this fine i shall do so, provided you do not relight this topic again
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Once again bringing up past things is irrelevant. Revan's Force Mastery might be twice as good as that of Dooku but it does not means that he is twice as better in all other categories. That argument was old. Forget it and move on. i merely pointed out what you do which is irritating




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Passing comments on others is bad thing. I know that people can do that but they kept silent afterwards. You should do the same if you don't have anything relevant to say. I don't taunt you in threads when you argue against others, so you should not do the same.
They keep silent when you do not reply with posts that agitate them period
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Want to stay friendly, follow my advice and stop bringing old issues here again and again. fine by me

Originally posted by Riverollv
I dont know, i just set an example. It could happend to Revan as well. Or probably something similar to what happened in the duel against Obi-Wan could happen. He thinks he is more powerful than the enemy so he gets too confident about himself. That could be an advantage for Revan.

Or the same thing could happen in the duel against Dooku, he only needed to decide to win, in the fight against Obi-Wan he was emotionally conflicted. And Revan would probably think he is better to, then his opponent, like Dooku did.

Speak for yourself. I never have whether it be on this or any other forum.

actually there have been arguments where lightsnake or myself have stepped in and you kept on arguing.

Me? When? I don't even remember EVER engaging in a full blown argument with Advent on this forum

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
actually there have been arguments where lightsnake or myself have stepped in and you kept on arguing.

Please read what I said carefully before responding.

Well you were very vague to begin with, actually.

Apparently not, if he missed the point altogether.

Speaking in completely honesty I don't see what your getting at...I bolded what Kadesh said: "Everybody has been thrashed by Advent." I said I hadn't, again I don't see what your talking about.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Speaking in completely honesty I don't see what your getting at...I bolded what Kadesh said: "Everybody has been thrashed by Advent." I said I hadn't, again I don't see what your talking about. I was referring to the time before you and legend joined the forums, I apologise that i forgot to specify that

Have we decided who wins in this thread? Rev or Annie?

I say Anakin.

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. - ROTS novel.

Originally posted by allfg
I'd personally say Revan takes it, even in saber combat.

Vandar described him as a saber prodigy, indicating that his natural grasp of the saber is on quite the high level; I would actually hesitate to even call Anakin a saber prodigy at all given he didn't technically advance at any extreme rate, and was only as good as he was because of his force strength.

Now we know that Revan did actually beat Darth Malak in saber combat, while being powered up by the Star Forge and described as near invincible. That's the same Malak who has quite the achievement under his belt, given that even in the days before he was powered up by the Star Forge, defeated Master Kavar, who was basically the BattleMaster of the KotOR Jedi Order, indicating he was one of the top KotOR Jedi Order duelists, and probably the best.

Revan's also faced far more combat against other force users and lightsaber users than Anakin has, seeing as he was involved in the Jedi Civil War. Add in the Mandalorian Wars, and he even has a greater overall battle experience than Anakin.

There's also the fact that Revan was perfectly content with going into battle with three powerful jedi with just his saber. Now we now that Revan certainly has the ability to have just taken them all out with the force, yet he was still confident enough in his saber ability to take it easy and just use his saber, implying that he might have been as confident in his ability with a saber as he was with his ability with the force.

The thing is, force ability strongly correlates with saber ability (precognition, reflexes, increasing your speed for example), and Revan being as strong as he is with the force heavily supports him being awesome with a saber.

So I'd say Revan takes this, due to his prodigious saber skills coupled along with his immense strength with the force, and his greater battle experience.
Kavar might not be the best cause when exterminating the Jedi in KOTOR 2 Vrook was above him in combat. Not too mention that in KOTOR 2 it seems that Vrook leads the Jedi after the Appearant death of Master Vandar But I do agree) Revan > anakin)

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Or the same thing could happen in the duel against Dooku, he only needed to decide to win, in the fight against Obi-Wan he was emotionally conflicted. And Revan would probably think he is better to, then his opponent, like Dooku did.

Yeah, but first of all, Anakin becomes more arrogant when he gets seduced by the Dark Side, he even says he is more powerful than Sidious, which is NOT true. (when he tells Padme to join her and together destroy Sidious and conquer the galaxy) And, yeah, he was sure he could beat Dooku, but in ROTS he happens to be better in saber combat than him, and since we dunno enough about Revan then we cant tell whos better. If Revan's better and Anakin starts with the "Youre no match for me, im the most powerful being in the Universe!" thing Revan could use thins in his advantage in a situation when Anakin happens to be overconfident. If not, then Anakin's words would mean nothing.

Unless something similar in the ROTS Anakin v.s. Obi finale happens.

Yea, unless something like that happens, then Revan wins, but have many times will Anakin fight, just when he has Choked his wife, on a normal day, Revan goes down.

It would be a very cool duel

It would be, but Anakin would probably be a winer.

Revan pwnz the shit out of Anakin.

Originally posted by Cryo
Revan pwnz the shit out of Anakin.

Reasons?

darth revna would pwn anikin

1. revan has more experiance battling jedi

2. revan has better force powers like ankin has force lighting and revan has force strom

and anikin does not choke her wife daily he only chokes her once because he thinks she betraded her

Originally posted by ihavenoname
darth revna would pwn anikin

1. revan has more experiance battling jedi

2. revan has better force powers like ankin has force lighting and revan has force strom

and anikin does not choke her wife daily he only chokes her once because he thinks she betraded her

1-Anakin attacked the Jedi temple, yes with Clones, but he still killed allot of Jedi.

2-So did Dooku, but still lost, i don't think Revans better control of the Force will save him.

And i don't know what you wore trying to say in the last thing you wrote.

I am with Revan. He is probably one of the top 3 sith ever. After some statements i got from master vrook, the jedi council, the great warriors of his era and adjunta pall himself i must say revan would probably win this. But it's a damn close fight to me.

Those are opinions from the characters, whose opinions are fallible and Anakin is described the strongest Jedi ever in the ROTS novelization and the writer wrote that.

In that case why yoda and sidious were stated in the MOVIE, the highest canon source, as the strongest force users from that time?

Anakin maybe the strongest jedi ever in POTENTIAL, but as far as we saw, he was not the strongest at that time so or this statement is wrong or the narrator is talking about potential power. If i am not wrong, in the same novelization is written that "The Jedi have never faced a crisis like the Clone Wars" and this is wrong if we include EU, so, this movie plot script is reliable in the movies world, but out of with and with EU it has flaws.

Yoda and Sidious are more powerful with the Force, i said those things, to make a point that characters opinions aren't 100% accurate and i don't think Revans better Force mastery will be enough, Dooku had also better Force mastery, but he still lost.

The quote is about physical power, not Force mastery and Dooku has better Force powers like, Lightning, Choking, Grip, Push... and it still didn't help him. And do you remember that he completely revitalized himself, when Obi-Wan was taken out of the duel.
Dooku>Anakin in Force powers.
Revan is going down.

Sorry? Yes, the second quote is abbout physical power but the first one is clear, "the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy", dooku himself is saying that anakin had "tremendous" force power, that's why dooku couldn't use his force powers to defeat anakin, because if he tried like he did with obi, even without knowing dooku's techniques, he would just shield himself against his attacks and kill him as he did with his lightsaber...

I don't think so.

Yes Force energy, that he wont get tired as quickly as Dooku, not that he has better Force powers.
And did you see the part where Anakin and Obi-Wan Force Pushed and wore equal on Mustafar, if what you say is true, Anakin would easily had stronger Force push, as Dooku is stronger then Anakin.

It could go either way

Anakin can win this if it sticks to a lightsaber duel, but there's nothing to suggest that he could contend with Revan's mastery of the Force.

Dooku had better Force powers then Anakin, by great margin and they wore described as joke. Revan does have a small chance of wining, trough Force powers, but i think Anakin would be just to much for him.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku had better Force powers then Anakin, by great margin and they wore described as joke. Revan does have a small chance of wining, trough Force powers, but i think Anakin would be just to much for him.

Dooku allowed himself to end up in a situation where his Force powers were meaningless. It is possible that he could have used them on both Anakin and Obi-Wan - but decided to duel him saber-to-saber instead. This is due to Count Dooku's own hubris and arrogance. He is no match for Anakin in a lightsaber match, which is unfortunately what he decided to engage Skywalker in.

Revan has been defined as an extremely capable tactition (and though his personality hasn't been defined), there is nothing to suggest that he was arrogant or cocky. This is part of the "Gary Stu" syndrome that the moronic writers at Bio-Ware and LucasArts inflicted Revan with in their attempt to create a "perfect character".

If you're reading this, guys, you're stupid, and you need to get a damn life or try to make a character with flaws.

Anyways, enough of my rant. Revan's tactical prowess is above and beyond anything Dooku has at his disposal, and his Force powers are stronger as well. Anakin can win if this sticks to a lightsaber fight, but it isn't guarenteed.

Lastly, simply because Anakin assraped Dooku doesn't mean he can do it to anybody, because Dooku is hardly a Force god.

Dooku was described as consummate planer and it didn't help him, true he was arrogant, but he always had more cards to play, just not in his fight with Skywalker. And Revan isn't so much superior to Dooku in Force powers, the only chance of wining Revan has against Anakin, is in the beginning of the fight, but if Anakin comes close, comes at him, he is a goner. And Revan is no Force God either, i would only put NJO Luke and DE Sidious in this category, maybe i forgotten somebody.

As much as I don't like Revan, he clearly should beat a young brash guy like Anakin. Anankin is after just staring out. Revan should be able to defeat him.

You mean starting out, right and Dooku was also more experienced and calmed, he wasn't so reckless as Anakin and it didn't help him.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku was described as consummate planer and it didn't help him, true he was arrogant, but he always had more cards to play, just not in his fight with Skywalker. And Revan isn't so much superior to Dooku in Force powers, the only chance of wining Revan has against Anakin, is in the beginning of the fight, but if Anakin comes close, comes at him, he is a goner. And Revan is no Force God either, i would only put NJO Luke and DE Sidious in this category, maybe i forgotten somebody.

Count Dooku's singular flaw as both a combatant and a tactition is his arrogance; we can logically deduce that it was because of this hubris that he did not attempt to disable Anakin as he did with Obi-Wan. His thoughts during the RotS novelization all but confirm this. He was so wrapped up in his supposed "superiority" that he nearly died and barely managed to take Obi-Wan out of the fight. Books like Dark Rendezvous and Labyrinth of Evil also go out of their way to confirm that Dooku does not like Anakin at all - Dooku himself says that if "fate wished to humble Skywalker" then he would "gladly be the instrument" to do so. He is jealous of the recognition that Skywalker receives for his raw power, and indeed admits that Anakin reminds Dooku of himself when Dooku was younger.

So, we can assume that it was Dooku's juvenile, jealous intent to best Anakin in a lightsaber match that he didn't use the Force against him when he had the chance. As Dooku (and other Force users) grow tired during their duels, the script confirms that Anakin simply grows even more potent. Finally, Dooku simply had no chance in saber combat, and wasn't in the position to use the Force - as the novelization goes into detail, when he used the Force against Anakin and Obi-Wan during their duel, he is nearly killed by the other.

Now, of course, if Anakin is in the metaphorical "zone", Revan doesn't have a prayer in lightsaber combat - and, if the situation is right - in Force combat either. But it is useless to simply say that because Anakin overcame Dooku, he can do the same to Revan. There is nothing to say nor support that Revan is a victim of the same hubris that Dooku was. Combine this with the fact that Revan is a sound tactical genius (Dooku is far from it), he has a much better chance than Dooku.

Oh, and as far as Revan's Force powers are concerned, I would say he is at least on par with RotS Sidious and RotS Yoda - he'd give them one hell of a time - and Dooku isn't on par with either. He couldn't overcome Yoda when he was distracted and emotionally conflicted on a world empowered by the dark side, and he was completely terrified of Sidious, so it goes to show the possible gap of power between those two.

If Revan plays smart and uses the Force, he can and will win. If this ends up in a saber match, he'll go down hard.

I agree, with the most you said, but i still think Anakin would win, unless if in the beginning of the fight Revan does something with his better Force mastery.

Hasn't it been stated somewhere that Yoda was the ultimate or strongest weapon against the Dark Side? I know i most likely have the wording incorrect, but you know to what i refer. If that is the case, then shouldn't that put Revan at most, slightly below Yoda? I really don't care one way or the other on a personal level, as i am of the same opinion as you as to how the fight would end up, but just to be fair to Anakin in this situation is why i want to know.

What do you mean fair to Anakin.