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Obsession Asajj, Tholme in his prime. I know Asajj would win but Count Makashi doesn't think so so I made this thread to prove him wrong. Lets see... Tholme uses Makashi, got pwnd by Dooku, got pwnd by Sora, but he did keep his dueling skills up more than most Jedi in the Order (stated by Dooku) and he did kick some ass during the Clone Wars. Now about Asajj, she was beating Sian Jeisel, K'Kruhk and Rhad, 3 on 1 (though that does seem a little unrealistic, even for Obsession Aajj, to be able to do that), she was beating Kenobi and Zule Xiss 2 on 1 just a few months after AOTC, she beat Kit Fisto, beat J'ai Maruk, has killed 19 Jedi during her life time, was one of Dooku's strongest and most loyal Dark Side Acolytes, and was even pwning Anakin, just 6 months before ROTS, before Anakin went beserk and used the Dark Side on her ass 9she's the one who gave him the scar next to his eye). Plus she's younger, more energetic, and won't tire as quickly.


I say Asajj wins this comfortably, possibly even pwns Tholme.

Tholme is a master Jedi swordsman, even respected by Count Dooku, who has Anzati training and can hold his own to Sora Bulq.

Asajj loses. Hard.

Are you kidding? Bulq pwnd Tholme and I'm pretty sure Dooku was mocking him. I highly doubt Tholme would pwn Asajj or win at all. If he could own Asajj then he could beat ROTS Anakin, too.

Dooku was handling Tholme well, yes. However, Dooku crushes Ventress without any effort. And at no point did Sora 'pwn' Tholme in their two battles. Actually see Tholme fight.

Tholme would lose, but he would put up a tough fight. But he wouldn't present much of a challenge to Assaj, I don't think.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku was handling Tholme well, yes. However, Dooku crushes Ventress without any effort. And at no point did Sora 'pwn' Tholme in their two battles. Actually see Tholme fight.
So you don't call this pwnage?
http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_8/Clone_Wars_Vol_8_117.jpg

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_8/Clone_Wars_Vol_8_119.jpg

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_8/Clone_Wars_Vol_8_127.jpg


And Dooku pwns Tholme, too.
http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_8/Clone_Wars_Vol_8_009.jpg


That's major pwnage, asajj during the beginning of the Clone Wars lasted round 30 seconds against Dooku and Obsession Asajj if FAR stronger than she was at the beginning of the Clone Wars. She was even pwning Anakin just 6 months before ROTS until Anakin used the Dark Side to beat her.

Tholme also got beat bad by two Morgukai Warriors (though 1 got a surprise hit on him). Asajj takes this, I mean she was only really one step below Anakin and Obi-Wan by Obsession.

No, they engage in an actual fight, which Sora wins, and the fight's apparently long enough for Quin to kill Skorr.

And those two Morgukai were elite fighters....and yes, one of them got in a surprise hit on Tholme when he was fighting Tsyr.

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_8/Clone_Wars_Vol_8_119.jpg

It's heavily implied in the first two panels that Sora was toying with Tholme, it's pretty clear Tholme was no match for him (FTR I'm a big Tholme fan).

And as powerful as Morgukai seemingly are, they're no jedi, and Asajj has shown the ability to toy with large numbers of jedi.

BTW Lightsnake, do you know which year the Marvel comics featuring Lumiya were released?

Ventress might lose.

That is the real duel, yes, they enage for long enough that Vos can kill Skorr, which he does in no time, Vos wtf pwns Skorr's ass, would you like me to post the pics of it, too, or will you just admit that I'm right?

Pretty close...

He does no 'do so in no time', they are shown to engage at the late stages of issue 76 to early 77. Time in pictures does not mean real times DS

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He does no 'do so in no time', they are shown to engage at the late stages of issue 76 to early 77. Time in pictures does not mean real times DS
Okay, but this right here shows how far ahead of Skorr Vos is:

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_8/Clone_Wars_Vol_8_126.jpg


If Vos is really that far ahead of Skorr then the battle can't have lasted more than a minute and it's doubtful that it lasted that long even.

Plus, look here:

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_4/Clone_Wars_Vol_4_079.jpg

If he can really beat Tol Skorr and Kadrian Sey 2 on one so quickly, then I'd be very surprised if Skorr alone lasted even 30 seconds against him. 20 seems more right, and Tholme went down just as quickly. Honestly, read the text between Dooku and that person in the hologram, that's how long it taked Quin to take both down at once. I timed myself reading it. 28.9 seconds. For both of them. Skorr alone would go down quicker than that.




What makes you say that?

Stop posting the pictures, I have the comics. Several times, Skorr and Vos are shown to be on very close terms and killed Sey because she was attacking Shinte and not expecting Vos to turn on her, bad example.

By the way, that was a test fight, bad example and totally irrelevant. There's nothing in Asajj's repetoire hinting she can take a Jedi master of Tholme's level

I agree and if Asajj wins against Tholme it wont be easy.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Stop posting the pictures, I have the comics. Several times, Skorr and Vos are shown to be on very close terms and killed Sey because she was attacking Shinte and not expecting Vos to turn on her, bad example.

By the way, that was a test fight, bad example and totally irrelevant. There's nothing in Asajj's repetoire hinting she can take a Jedi master of Tholme's level
if you have the comic then you'd better read them again to refresh your memory because obviously you can't remember them very well.

Skorr is close to Vos after viewing those two fights? I beg for proof.

I'm not talking about when he killed Sey I am talking about when he fought Sey and Skorr at the same time, where did I ever mention Sey's death? Look at what I posted before you respond.

Proof that it was a test fight?

And, as previously stated, Asajjwas beating Anakin just 6 months before ROTS, which puts her not far behind ROTS Anakin. Proof that Tholme is that strong?

Originally posted by darthsith19
if you have the comic then you'd better read them again to refresh your memory because obviously you can't remember them very well.

Skorr is close to Vos after viewing those two fights? I beg for proof.
Skorr is trusted enough to be a personal aide, 1, has faced Vos well enough on two occasions, twp

Read the comic lately? Dooku was testing him the entire time

Beating Anakin? Last I checked, Anakin kicked her sorry ass when he lured her out of hit and run tactics

Originally posted by darthsith19


What, ROTS Anakin would destroy her with ease, he would ultimate mega super pwn her, rape her to, if he didn't get it from Padme.

So he was a Dark Side Acolyte, so what? He was trusted for his loyalty, nothing ever says that he was trusted for his skills. When did he face Vos well enough? And the time they fought in The Dreadnaughts of Rendili doesn't count as Vos says later that he was tired and trying NOT to hurt Skorr.

So in otherwords you have no proof that that particular fight was a test.

Only when using the Dark Side, without it Anakin was getting own3d.




No, he wouldn't beat her that easily, unless you can prove that he got that much stronger in the last 6 months of the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by darthsith19
So he was a Dark Side Acolyte, so what? He was trusted for his loyalty, nothing ever says that he was trusted for his skills. When did he face Vos well enough? And the time they fought in The Dreadnaughts of Rendili doesn't count as Vos says later that he was tired and trying NOT to hurt Skorr.
Yes, because Vos's taunts to Skorr are to be utterly, 100 percent believed. Vos and Skorr mock one another consistently, so?
We can also buy he was never falling to the Dark Side, that killing Tinte was just and that
How about on Korriban when Skorr gave Quin a run for his money?

Besides Dooku and Sora coaching Quin on and it serving as an initiation? Come, now

Since when? When Ventress was forced out of hiding, she was screwed completely.
Ventress never once got the best of Anakin in that fight in a direct confrontation. Not once




He killed Dooku easily.
All the proof necessary

1. What Vos says to Skorr about him being tired and trying not to hurt Skorr makes perfect sense, he had been on the run for days, had fought droids, Kenobi even talks of how injured he is in that comic that he "loses" to Skorr (he says it'd be stupid for Vos to stay instead of him because of how tired Vos is). And there's no reason that Vos would try to hurt Skorr at that point, as he is, or is trying to appear to be, on Dooku's side.
2. Could you name one other time when Vos taunts Skorr, because I can't remember that ever happening. Maybe I'm forgetful, but I can't ever remember Vos taunting Skorr.

He was clearly turning to the Dark Side, read the comics, see the Jedi's responses to his actions, see him attack Tholme and try to kill him, see him try to kill K'Kruhk, too. How can you say that he wasn't turning to the Dark Side?

Nope, there was no coaching during that fight, look again, just Dooku talking to Tinte, no coaching.

O rly?
http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_6/Clone_Wars_Vol_6_157.jpg

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_6/Clone_Wars_Vol_6_159.jpg

Again, when Anakin wasn't using the Dark Side he got own3d.


Correction: He killed Dooku easily when using the Dark Side and when Dooku was tired, plus Anakin's form is the best form against Dooku's. And Dooku was at a disadvantage because he got kicked by Anakin while he was busy taking Kenobi down so he was a little hurt. Add them all together and there was a good reason that Dooku got pwnd other than that Anakin was as much stronger than him as you're hinting. And seeing how badly Ventress was beating him just six months before that it's doubtful that Dooku would have been pwnd at all if Anakin hadn't had so many advantages.

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. What Vos says to Skorr about him being tired and trying not to hurt Skorr makes perfect sense, he had been on the run for days, had fought droids, Kenobi even talks of how injured he is in that comic that he "loses" to Skorr (he says it'd be stupid for Vos to stay instead of him because of how tired Vos is). And there's no reason that Vos would try to hurt Skorr at that point, as he is, or is trying to appear to be, on Dooku's side.
Quinlan was willing to decapitate Aayla for a short time and has taunted Skorr extensively before. Not seeing how this's relevant

On Korriban.

I think you missed the point of what I said...

Oh, so Dooku wasn't talking to him and Sora didn't yell at him to use Vaapad when Dooku was involved? And Dooku didn't say he knew the truth all along and strung him along?

Stop distorting things. I'm sorry, when did Ventress have any sort of upper hand? She...kicks him, matches blows with him, runs away and slashes him once-receiving a blow in kind using...wait for it...HIT AND RUN TACTICS.

Ownage implies Anakin was losing horribly


Sorry, bull.
Stated directly Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and that Anakin was more powerful than Dooku believed possible and that, and I quote: 'Dooku is dead, the rest is mere detail."

The moment Anakin decided to kill him, Dooku was a dead man. Plain and simple. Anakin>Dooku by a good margin.

Can you name a specific instance when he has taunted Skorr?

Unless they fight there another time besides the one that i posted pics of there is not aunting in their fight there. is there another time they fought besides the one between Vos, Skorr and Sey?

No, you said that we could just buy that Vos wasn't turning to the Dark Side. But he clearly was. I have no idea what you were going on there.

Yes, that did happen when Vos and Dooku sparred. However, how your getting Vos vs. Dooku and Vos vs. Skorr and Sey mixed up. I have no idea.

I know what ownage means. So what if she used hit-and-run tactics, she was still owning him, or i,f you prefer, Anakin was still losing horribly. it's not like hit-and-run tactics are against the rules of fair fighting or anything.



1. How is it bull? You can't just say bull unless you have a reason why it is bull.

2. I never said that Anakin wasn't more pwoerful than Dooku, I just said that he wasn't very far ahead of Dooku.

3. I have provided proof why Anakin doesn't > Dooku by a good margin. please refer to that.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Can you name a specific instance when he has taunted Skorr?

For possibly the third time: Korriban.

Korriban, AGAIN

Shows how little trust I have in Quin's statements there.

Because Dooku
A. knows quin is an agent already
B. Wants him in.
C. If they were fighting to kill, someone'd be very dead. Sora could've torn Quin to pieces

Where was she owning him? Not once did she get the better of him. AT ALL. The most she got was giving him a cut which he returned in kind.



Which, if true, wouldn't amount to dooku being dead the second Anakin decided to kill him

And I've provided canon, official proof why he does

DS, Dooku was not tired at all when fighting against Anakin alone. It is stated right in the ROTS novel that Dooku used the force to refill his stamina back to perfect state, before duking out with Anakin alone.

Nope, only the second. Also for the second time, name a specific instance, I mean quote what Vos said that was a taunt, sorry if I was unclear.

I'm sorry, wasn't Korriban where Vos, Sey and Skorr fought?

Quin said that he wasn't turning to the Dark Side because he didn't realize that he was, he thought that what he was doing was the only way to stop the Sith. That's totally different that telling Skorr that on Dreadnaughts of Rendili he was fatigued and trying not to hrut Skorr, especially when we have other proof (that I posted earlier) that this is true (I will post the otehr proof again if you want me to).

That has nothing to do with the fight between Skorr, Sey and Vos! Again:

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_4/Clone_Wars_Vol_4_079.jpg

This is the fight that we are referring to, and there is NO coaching during that fight!




So taunting him, kicking him in the face, cutting him in the head twice (while holding back) isn't getting the better of him AT ALL?

Oh my god, you can't read, can you?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Correction: He killed Dooku easily when using the Dark Side and when Dooku was tired, plus Anakin's form is the best form against Dooku's. And Dooku was at a disadvantage because he got kicked by Anakin while he was busy taking Kenobi down so he was a little hurt. Add them all together and there was a good reason that Dooku got pwnd other than that Anakin was as much stronger than him as you're hinting. And seeing how badly Ventress was beating him just six months before that it's doubtful that Dooku would have been pwnd at all if Anakin hadn't had so many advantages.

And it wasn't "one second".



The only proof that you've stated is "Stated directly Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and that Anakin was more powerful than Dooku believed possible" which only states that Anakin is stronger than Dooku and in no way says that he is, implies that he is, or states why he is stronger than Dooku by a large margin.




Are we reading the same novel?

This is what the novel says:
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.

So you see that Dooku was tired even when trying to use the Force to refill his stamina "back to perfect state", because his Force Powers were getting exhausted, too.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Nope, only the second. Also for the second time, name a specific instance, I mean quote what Vos said that was a taunt, sorry if I was unclear.
His entire diaologue to SKorr amounts almost entirely of taunts.

No. Quin only visited Korriban once.

As I said: What Quin says is usually suspect. Point is, this is inconclusive

My mistake then. Point remains: If that was a real fight, Sora Bulq would have torn Quin to pieces




Wow, TAUNTS! That's getting the better of him! Kicking him! Wow, he immediately struck back and sent her darting away for shelter. Wow, sshe cut him. He gave her a bigger cut to the face

when wa sshe holding back? Oh, right, she wasn't
None of this is ownage. NONE of it

"Dooku is dead, the rest is mere detail."
Thank you



"dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail."


pQuoted]
The only proof that you've stated is "Stated directly Anakin is more powerful than Dooku and that Anakin was more powerful than Dooku believed possible" which only states that Anakin is stronger than Dooku and in no way says that he is, implies that he is, or states why he is stronger than Dooku by a large margin.
Read the ROTs novelization. Thank you

Okay, can you at least tell me which comic this is in so that I can go look at the fight to refresh my memory?

Which comic was that, I wish to re-read it to refresh my memory.


How can you say that what he said to Skorr in that instance is inconclusive when it makes perfect sense, as even kenobi says that Vos is tired and there's no reason why Vos would have been trying to hurt Skorr.


I do agree than Bulq could have taken Vos. How does this refer to the fight between Vos, Sey and Skorr?


Taunts shows that one is comfortable enough to not concentrate fully on taking out their opponent but also to spend time taunting them. Kicking someone is a sign of getting an upper hand, even if it doesn't last, it means that the person who kicked the other person has the upper hand for at least a short amount of time. He didn't strike back and make her run, she taunted him and pretended that she was going to go find and kill Padme to rile him up. Cutting him is definitely getting an upper hand. Yes, he cut her worse, but only when using the Dark Side, and I have said about a dozen times that she was owning him when he wasn't using the dark side, I'm not denying that she lsot when he did use the dark side.


Yes, she was. She tells him that she could have taken his head off but chose not to, that's called holding back/not trying your hardest.

So if getting kicked in the face and cut in the face twice isn't ownage then may I ask what is?

Wow, Dooku is dead, so what, I knew that, what has that got to do with anything?

Stop saying that.

You can't just tell me to read the novelisation and expect me to read the whole thing just so you can prove one point. Post quotes. And fyi I have read the duel between Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku more than once before and everything it says agrees with me - that Dooku was tired, that Dooku's form (Makashi) is bad against Anakin's form (Djem So), that Anakin kicking Dooku worsened Dooku's status and that Anakin became stronger when he used the Dark Side. I don't see how anything in the novel helps your pont, which, apparently, is only:

"dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail."

Which isn't proof at all that Anakin is a good margin above Dooku.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, can you at least tell me which comic this is in so that I can go look at the fight to refresh my memory?

Which comic was that, I wish to re-read it to refresh my memory.
The one with Andeddu's holocron, when Vos and Skorr recover it


Besides hating him, having no reason not to kill him and having been willing to kill him in the past?


Quin looks to find Sora in a battle stance?


Taunts also work to throw the opponent off balance psychologically and could be easily used to weaken a stronger opponent.
She was never WINNINg the damn fight and certainly not owning.


From ASAJJ VENTRESS, this is to be believed? She's taunting him to enrage him all the way through, how is this conclusive? Anakin slashes her across the face, too

What Anakin did to Dooku.
Seriously, give it a rest. anakin cuts her right back and is never once outmatched.
If you think this is ownage, you need to get a better definition

"The rest is mere detail."
When Anakin decides to kill Dooku, it's stated he's already dead
Stop saying that.

Um, yeah. It is. It says Dooku was nothing to Anakin, Dooku is dead just because Anakin has decided to kill him, and so forth.

First few chapters, btw.

Originally posted by darthsith19


Are we reading the same novel?

This is what the novel says:
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.

So you see that Dooku was tired even when trying to use the Force to refill his stamina "back to perfect state", because his Force Powers were getting exhausted, too.


Uh, where does it say that it affected his force stamina much at all? As we saw, when he grew tired in the force, he lost his physical peak and grew tired, now if he filled up to perfect state, he wouldn't become more tired in the force, because they are holding up one and the same thing, his energy....


And how the **** would Dooku manage to get out anyway? Answere, he wouldn't. I could go on and blame every single duel in star wars for this now, example, "Hey, Dooku used lightning twice on Anakin and Obi-Wan, then he beat them both, then he used alot of force powers on Yoda. He must've been sickly tired which is why he couldn't win...."

In ROTS, Dooku would've lost either way, face it.

I personally think people are reading way too much into the whole "Dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail." The writer was probably just trying to be poetic, I really don't see how people can just consider Anakin as being greater than Dooku by a large margin based on that quote alone. He probably is firmly more powerful in that zone (though I hate that), but I doubt he's leagues above him or anything.

Okay, I'll read that comic to refresh my memory.

1. They were rivals, so sure they hated each otehr but they were on the same side so they try to kill each other.
2. The reason not to kill him is that they are on the same side, or at least Vos wants Dooku to believe that they are on the same side. Killing Skorr would blow Quin's cover.
3. When did Vos try to kill Skorr after they both started working for Dooku?

Yup, you're right.

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Clone_Wars_Vol_4/Clone_Wars_Vol_4_080.jpg

However, how Sora's ready stance has anything to do with Vos beating Skorr and Sey, 2 on 1, I've no idea. Why do you keep bringing up otehr things, the fight we're talking about is Vos vs. Skorr and Sey.

Yes, your right, and Asajj was using them to help her own Anakin, by making him even further below her than he already was.

Well, I don't see any reason why should couldn't have moves her saber just an ince closer to his face and sliced it opened if she'd wanted to. I didn't notice Anakin cutting her until now, either, so maybe it isn't ownage, but she still had the upper hand.

Anakin didn't own Dooku any worse than she owned Anakin. Anakin cuts her once, she cuts him twice and kicks him.
And my definition of ownage is perfectly fine.

Stop saying what? And where does it state that when Anakin wants to kill Dooku he's already dead? Quote, please.

Obviously he is dead because Anakin decided to kill him, you can't die in combat unless someone decides to kill you. Dooku being nothing to Anakin could mean that Anakin doesn't care at all about Dooku, because I don't know what the quote is, so could please quote the part of the novel that states that Dooku is nothing to Anakin?



Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions...

Means he was getting weaker with the Force. I don't think you can just stop and fill up your stamina, either, you just have to use the Force while you're fighting to keep from getting tired as quickly. He was using the Force to keep him from fatiguing as quickly, which made his Force powers go down and his atamina go up. They are not one and the same.


Get out anyway? What the hell are you talking about, get out of what? Against Yoda he was tired but not so much as he was when he fought Anakin in ROTS because in AOTC Anakin and Kenobi were far enough below him that he didn't get very tired from their feeble attacks.

Yup, but he wouldn't have been owned if it hadn't been for Anakin's obvious advantages.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions...

Means he was getting weaker with the Force. I don't think you can just stop and fill up your stamina, either, you just have to use the Force while you're fighting to keep from getting tired as quickly. He was using the Force to keep him from fatiguing as quickly, which made his Force powers go down and his atamina go up. They are not one and the same.


Get out anyway? What the hell are you talking about, get out of what? Against Yoda he was tired but not so much as he was when he fought Anakin in ROTS because in AOTC Anakin and Kenobi were far enough below him that he didn't get very tired from their feeble attacks.

Yup, but he wouldn't have been owned if it hadn't been for Anakin's obvious advantages.


Still, his force went out fast as hell, even IF it really mattered that much (it could've count for next to nothing unless you can state otherwise, cause by the looks of it, it took about half a second and no effort at all) it wouldn't have mattered that much anyway, he could not simply hold on against Anakin.


And by "get out" I mean of the grasp that Anakin had on him. (Keeping him forced to defend and defend only, and he only became weaker). Really, there is no way that he would've survived "if he wasn't tired", because he was not getting out of that one. He became tired because he could not do anything but defend against Anakin (and become weaker) while Anakin became stronger and pushed the attack.

And really, I think would be stupid if it drained his force so much, if he needs it, then he would've used the force alone, and nothing else. He wouldn't need to refill his stamina, since the force is all that matters, why the hell would he drain his own force just to refill his 80 year old body's stamina, if the force is what keeps him going?
He was drained because he couldn't handle Anakin.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, I'll read that comic to refresh my memory.

1. They were rivals, so sure they hated each otehr but they were on the same side so they try to kill each other.
2. The reason not to kill him is that they are on the same side, or at least Vos wants Dooku to believe that they are on the same side. Killing Skorr would blow Quin's cover.
3. When did Vos try to kill Skorr after they both started working for Dooku?

Quin kicks Sora to definite death if Dooku didn't save him. quin didn't care at all and dooku warned Skorr next time he wouldn't bother.

How if these fights were real WHATSOEVER and not just practice, Sora would've opened Quin from crotch to throat

Good thing he wasn't below her, then, because Asajj is doing nothing but dancing out of reach. When anakin forces an engagement, she loses hard.

Wowee. Having the upper hand means precisely nothing if the fighr doesn't end that way

No, because Anakin is hardly even affected by ANY of that and gives as good as he gets. Dooku is totally out mathced

"Dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail."
A narraration quote when Dooku is still alive.

Learn to decipher narrative, please. Early chapters. When Anakin fights Dooku is not buried deep in the book

Originally posted by allfg
I personally think people are reading way too much into the whole "Dooku is dead. The rest is mere detail." The writer was probably just trying to be poetic, I really don't see how people can just consider Anakin as being greater than Dooku by a large margin based on that quote alone. He probably is firmly more powerful in that zone (though I hate that), but I doubt he's leagues above him or anything.

Don't try to interpret the thoughts of the writer (which you don't have access to), Nebaris. The quote was made from a novelization of the movie - which is second only to Lucas himself - and is therefore rendered completely factual.

Well one thing I will say is that the fightscene itself is entirely invalid anyway, due to the many contradictions, the the narration in this case isn't even canon.

Dear Sith'Ari: Stop trying to twist what the officials have spoken on.

What have the officials spoken on, Lightsnake?

Again, I DO believe that ROTS Anakin > Dooku, I merely stated that he wasn't above Dooku by a good margin; he is only a little above Dooku. Yes, Anakin would have beaten him even if he hadn't had all those advantages but he would NOT have pwnd him. His Force tired out so quickly because that was really all that was keeping him going, most of his stamina was completely gone, which is why he had to spend lavishly on his Force reserve. Your right, he couldn't handle Anakin. But do you agree that he wouldn't have gotten pwnd if Anakin hadn't had so many advantages?





Aren't these two statements a bit contradictory, in the first one you say that Quin could have kicked Sora to death, in the next you say that Sora could have opened Quin from crotch to throat. Make up your mind. And anyways, what the f*ck are you talking about Bulq for anyways, lightsnake? This entire time we've been debating I've been referring to Quinlan Vos vs. Tol Skorr and Kadrian Sey. WHY do you keep referring to Sora Bulq?

Is "dancing out of reach" against the rules of combat or something? If it isn't then the point remains that she had the upper hand, and it doesn't matter whether she got it by "dancing" or not. If it is against the rules of combat, then why is it against the rules?

It doesn't matter though, because if you look back to my original statement what I originally said was "Only when using the Dark Side, without it Anakin was getting own3d." I have no changed "own3d" to "Asajj had the upper hand." which changes the statement to something like "Only when using the Dark Side, without it Asajj had the upper hand". And my point still stands, and I have admitted several times that when Anakin used the Dark Side, he won, which is why I specifically stated that he won "Only when using the Dark Side". So it doesn't matter that he won because what I said is still true.

In both cases he is losing until he uses the Dark Side. Then, when he uses the Dark Side, he pwns both of them. I see no difference.

What the f*ck are you talking about? Lightsnake, I know that Dooku is dead. How is that from the novel? Who says it? I'm not going to read the entire first few chapters just to make you happy, how about you just quote the paragraph that that's in for me.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Again, I DO believe that ROTS Anakin > Dooku, I merely stated that he wasn't above Dooku by a good margin; he is only a little above Dooku. Yes, Anakin would have beaten him even if he hadn't had all those advantages but he would NOT have pwnd him. His Force tired out so quickly because that was really all that was keeping him going, most of his stamina was completely gone, which is why he had to spend lavishly on his Force reserve. Your right, he couldn't handle Anakin. But do you agree that he wouldn't have gotten pwnd if Anakin hadn't had so many advantages?


Sure.

So if Ankain is above Dooku, that means he's on par with Mace, Yoda, and Sidious?

No, well in swordsmanship maybe, but not overall.

Dooku has also better mastery of the Force then Anakin.

Yeah, Anakin is only better than Dooku in saber, but not in the force...

I really hate how quickly Dooku died, them you George Lucas, at least he took it like a man, when Anakin beheaded him.

I even want to see Anakin being beat by Dooku

Yea, me to, thats just a problem, its just a wish, that will never be realized.

I really hate that fight in ROTS. I expected to see Dooku vs Windu in ROTS. And they killed each other

Yea i read a script from a fan before 2 years from ROTS and in it they killed each other in the beginning of the movie.

I have heard of this outcome too. But unfortuntely, it didn't come true...><
I really like to see Dooku vs Mace. That fight is just a re-match of AOTC..><

What rematch, they never fought in AOTC.

I mean the fight of Dooku vs Anakin & Obi...

Oh, my bad. I would have liked to see him get killed by Sidious, he tried to take ower power or something, or that he redeemed himself and came back to the light and tried to kill Sidious because he was to dangerous.

That's still better than Dooku vs Ani & Obi...but I still like seeing Dooku vs Mace, Dooku vs Sidious is 2nd...I also hope Dooku can survive and appear in EU

How can he survive with his head chopped of.

I mean I hoped he can survive before I saw the movie...

No i was 100% sure he was going to die, he had to, so that Anakin becomes Sidious apprentice.

I have to go, its late her, have to go to sleep.

I know he was going to die. I just "hope" he can survive...doesn't mean that would come true...

It's debatable, but he could be above Dooku and still behind Mace, Yoda and Sidious, right? There's no reason why he couldn't be in between Dooku and those other 3.


And as far as how Dooku should have died... Mace would have been alright, but only if Mace had won.

But Anakin beating him is okay, too, it should have been closer, though, and longer, and Kenobi should never have been involved. Dooku fighting both at once and fending them off and then losing to one alone is stupid, and so is Dooku pwning Kenobi like he did. IMO Anakin and Dooku should have fought and while they were fighting maybe Kenobi could fight Grievous and/pr a bunch of magnaguards. When Dooku dies, Grievous flees, out the window, back into the ship, into the escape pod... yeah, that would have been better.

Or that he fell of a cliff and died, that he was so powerful, that was the only way for him to die-JK.

lol, he's weaker on ROTS than in the CW, though...

Almost everyone is, Yoda, Dooku, Mace... They are all overpowered in the CW.

Yeah, I know, but CW Grievous IS actually weaker by ROTS, because Mace Force Crushes him in the end of CW.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Almost everyone is, Yoda, Dooku, Mace... They are all overpowered in the CW. Especially Mace! Just compare what he done in Battle of Geonosis & Battle of Dantooine...><

Yeah and Dooku levitates in the air, that was funny.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yeah and Dooku levitates in the air, that was funny.
I think Dooku can do that actually, I saw somewhere said it was a kind of force power...

What, no one can fly trough the air, this isn't superman, for instance when Kenobi fell dawn that holle in the hangar in TPM, why didn't he just levitate back to the ground.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, no one can fly trough the air, this isn't superman, for instance when Kenobi fell dawn that holle in the hangar in TPM, why didn't he just levitate back to the ground. No. Firstly, he wasn't flying. Secondly, I mean I saw somewhere stated that it is some kind of special dark side force power(I am not sure)...

I don't know, i haven't seen anyone else do it, but maybe your right, but i doubt it. Where did you saw that?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I don't know, i haven't seen anyone else do it, but maybe your right, but i doubt it. Where did you saw that? It is "Force Flight"...http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Flight

Oh, its Wikipedia, we all know thats 100% reliable(sarcasm) and look what also it says on this site.

Many fans insist that this is not actual flight but merely a slowing and movement during a fall, or added power to the legs during a jump.

That's why I said I am not sure but I think Dooku can actually do that(CW is cannon)...

The story is, but some fights cant be, Mace defeats an entire army by himself, if thats true, why didn't he do it on Geonosis.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
The story is, but some fights cant be, Mace defeats an entire army by himself, if thats true, why didn't he do it on Geonosis.
That's what I thought too. Some fights are more realistic than others...

But some fight are way to unrealistic.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
But some fight are way to unrealistic.
Maybe.

Not maybe, they are.

No everyone would think they all are...

Who, they are insane.

Dooku just exerted TK on the ground as he descended. You merely have to be powerful in the force and focused to achieve such a feat.

Dooku would probably be unable to do that if he got thrown down during a fight as he'd likely lack the focus to continually exert his tk on the ground and against his body.

And Mace was figthing for his life on Dantooine, he basically unleashed all his power and never held back as most Jedi tend to do.

But, the same thing happened on Geonosis, if what you said its true, then he should have done the same thing on Geonosis and we all know what happened.

He wasn't alone on Geonosis, plus he was trapped in an arena (limited space) with droids shooting him on all angles. You're also forgetting that he lost his lightsaber for majority of his one-man-army display on Dantooine and had to rely on the force alone to survive.

The difference between Geonosis and Dantooine is that on Dantooine he never held back and there was less on his mind e.g. having found out one of your best friends (Dooku) is involved with killing Jedi.

The fight is over the top, what we see from the movies, and from other EU stuff, they don't appear they can do it, GL himself said in TPM Web documentaries, that Jedi are more one on one fighters.

It's over the top, no doubt, but not outside the realm of possibility for a powerful practitioner of the force like Mace. It was an exceptional display by an exceptional Jedi Master, simple as that.

But, from the movies, we, at least me, that i Jedi has no chance of defeating the whole army, Movie Mace, if he was in the Temple, he would probably be killed just as well, he would be toughest to kill, but killed nevertheless.

The movies also never show Mace taking on an army of battle droids by himself. So unless they did, I wouldn't be so quick to say his movie version couldn't do this or that (he's effectively the same character). Besides, I don't see why it should be outside the realm of possibility for a powerful force user, after all isn't the force capable of anything?

Nope, it isn't, a PT Jedi cant destroy a planet, Yoda had trouble holding that pillar failing on Obi and Anakin and Gl said in TPM documentary, something like this, Jedi are more negotiators, one on one fighters, they don't go blowing planets up, something like that. And isn't it logical to assume, that if there was 200 jedi in arena it would be even easier to defeat the hole army, because theirs more, so if theirs more Jedi, Mace doesn't fight as good ,as if he is alone, i think he would fight even harder if their was more Jedi involved, especially in the Arena, to save more Jedis life, as he was the best by far in that batlle.

Mace could never do anything near what he did on Dantioone, there's no reason that he'd fight betetr alone that with other Jedi, plus he was unarmed, if he could really do all that without a lightsaber then He'd have taken out those 4 SBD's that first fired at him with a wave of his blade, and then take out Jango with another wave of his blade, and then pwn all the droids in the arena by himself. If he could really do that he would have even brought any otehr Jedi with him to Geonosis and there would have been a LOT less casulties.

As far as Force Flight goes, it is bs, if Dooku could really do that then why couldn't Palpatine lift himself up out of the Death Star's reactor core that Vader tossed him down? Why did Vader almost die when he was riding on the lava and went over that waterfall, why didn't he just fly? Why did Mace die when he fell out of Palpatine's window and why didn't Yoda levitate back up at the end of his fight with Sidious when he was hanging on to the Podium by his fingertips? No, Dooku couldn't really do that, and if Palpatine and Yoda couldn't then I doubt msot other people could, possibly like NJO Luke, DE Sidious, Jacen, Kol, maybe a couple others but that's it and those are maybes.

Vader said, "Don't be too proud of this technilogical terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Originally posted by darthsith19
Mace could never do anything near what he did on Dantioone, there's no reason that he'd fight betetr alone that with other Jedi, plus he was unarmed, if he could really do all that without a lightsaber then He'd have taken out those 4 SBD's that first fired at him with a wave of his blade, and then take out Jango with another wave of his blade, and then pwn all the droids in the arena by himself. If he could really do that he would have even brought any otehr Jedi with him to Geonosis and there would have been a LOT less casulties.

As far as Force Flight goes, it is bs, if Dooku could really do that then why couldn't Palpatine lift himself up out of the Death Star's reactor core that Vader tossed him down? Why did Vader almost die when he was riding on the lava and went over that waterfall, why didn't he just fly? Why did Mace die when he fell out of Palpatine's window and why didn't Yoda levitate back up at the end of his fight with Sidious when he was hanging on to the Podium by his fingertips? No, Dooku couldn't really do that, and if Palpatine and Yoda couldn't then I doubt msot other people could, possibly like NJO Luke, DE Sidious, Jacen, Kol, maybe a couple others but that's it and those are maybes.

I completely agree.

Whether Dooku could levitate is debatable...

No its not, why didn't he levitate down in ROTS, when he did a sumer salt from the balcony, where Palpatine was imprisoned, yo show of, to let them know how powerful he was.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
No its not, why didn't he levitate down in ROTS, when he did a sumer salt from the balcony, where Palpatine was imprisoned, yo show of, to let them know how powerful he was. I think Anakin & Obiwan already know how powerful he was. But he want to let Asajj to know how powerful he was. Also, the height where he jumped is much shorter than that in CW. Also, he didn't use doesn't mean he didn't know how to use.

But if Dooku can do it then why can't Yoda or Sidious do it? Their stronger than Dooku, after all.

If we had some source, that isn't Wikipedia, an official one, i would agree, but know, i just cant.

Coz they are pretty tired & exhausted, but Dooku not...

What, when are Yoda and Sidious tired, maybe in the end of the fight, not in the middle.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, when are Yoda and Sidious tired, maybe in the end of the fight, not in the middle. darthsith19 said why they don't do that at the end.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, when are Yoda and Sidious tired, maybe in the end of the fight, not in the middle.
"Why did Mace die when he fell out of Palpatine's window and why didn't Yoda levitate back up at the end of his fight with Sidious when he was hanging on to the Podium by his fingertips?"

Sidious wasn't holding with his fingertips, he was holding on a lever.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Sidious wasn't holding with his fingertips, he was holding on a lever. He was saying Yoda.

Oh, my bad, i didn't read it in detail, i just went trough it.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Oh, my bad, i didn't read it in detail, i just went trough it. Patience, my friend

Of course, forgive me.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Of course, forgive me. Apology accepted.

You missed a good opportunity, you should say Apology accepted Captain Needa

Your right, they were tired, but what about Sidious when he gets tossed down the reactor shaft at the end of ROTJ?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
You missed a good opportunity, you should say Apology accepted Captain Needa You are Captain Needa?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Your right, they were tired, but what about Sidious when he gets tossed down the reactor shaft at the end of ROTJ? That's harder to explain. He maybe a bit shocked & he is still using lightning.

No, it was a god opportunity for a joke- much to learn you still have of comedy.

Forget it.

You mean about the levitating thing, yea it was silly.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Your right, they were tired, but what about Sidious when he gets tossed down the reactor shaft at the end of ROTJ? That's just like why Sidious didn't use force against Mace, why Dooku didn't use force against Anakin, etc. There must be some reasons why Palpatine didn't use...which I don't know...
Or becoz that force power havn't been invented yet at that time

Or because it doesn't exists.

Palpatine has to be dead in ROTJ

Well, out of story explanations don't count.

So, no one knows.

Because, he cant levitate, thats way.

Perhaps only Dooku can levitate

Not, even he can.

Who knows

GL.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
GL. Maybe he hasn't think about it before

Or he doesn't care. Levitation, even if its a real power, doesn't help you in a fight.

I agree...

You agree, that levitation isnr a real power, good.-

No, I agree about this: Originally posted by Count Makashi
Levitation doesn't help you in a fight.

I know, i was joking. Had you foled, haha.

I know you are always joking.

No you don't, i am to unpredictable, you are just playing it cool, but you are embarrassed.-JK.

How come I don't know you always joking while you always do that?

I don't always joke, i am unpredictable, thats why you don't know.