So...what has Freedon Nadd done?

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Shin_Nikkolas
In terms of feats/displays of power in the Force or combat?

Darth Sexy
Conquered a backwater planet filled with primitive people and... Wait that's it. But apparently he's a force god to some.

Blue_Hefner
He also forced Exar Kun to turn to the darkside

Janus Marius
Originally posted by Shin_Nikkolas
In terms of feats/displays of power in the Force or combat?

Well for starters, as a ghost he was able to collapse a wall on Exar Kun and crush his entire body while blocking Vodo from helping and even giving the Jedi Master a Force-backlash. He then heals Exar Kun's body, mending painfully every broken bone or torn muscle in a manner similar to Sion's rebuilding (Only far more complete) and orders the former Jedi around until the amulet incident where Nadd got his ass owned.

Nadd is likely inferior to earlier Sith lords since he takes direct orders from their spirits, and Kun outstripped him so it's safe to say he's inferior to Kun. However, he is no slouch either. His tomb where they kept his rotten body was a vector for the Dark Side; hell, you had to watch where you stepped or else you tripped in it.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Well for starters, as a ghost he was able to collapse a wall on Exar Kun and crush his entire body while blocking Vodo from helping and even giving the Jedi Master a Force-backlash.
'While' implies simultaneous action, which is untrue.

Even the comic proves this statement error-ridden: Nadd's is
A. On Korriban, increasing his powers a significant amount than usual, even in spirit form, able to lash out on Vodo
B. He does nothing more than 'trigger the release' of the energies in the cave...which, incidentally, causes the rather fragile little construct to react poorly, causing the cave in

In other words, Janus? Freedon did nothing more than throw a match on a lit fuse


No, he doesn't. Nadd does NOTHING to heal Kun. Kun's complete acceptance of the Dark Side knits his bones and heals him. It's Exar's acceptance of the Dark Side that heals him.
Two for two down here

Which, considering the massive Sith Rituals performed in over 400 years since his death by his descendants, many of whom were powerful Sith magicians with access to Nadd's personal store? Not a surprise.

That's two 'ghost feats' of Nadd that are heavily aggrandized, by the by.

exanda kane
Has a nifty temple.

Janus Marius
Let's take a look at the source material again, LS:

http://i3.tinypic.com/5y8qyr5.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/5z5vw37.jpg

Basically, it takes "little effort" for Freedon Nadd to shatter a "great" crystal which imprisoned Jedi spirits and unleash those energies into the cavern in a collapse which shatters Kun's entire body. He breaks a crystal meant to entrap many Jedi spirits with little effort, LS. He doesn't push a red button or shove a rock across a room with extreme effort.

And yes, the effort is not simultaneous to his attack on Vodo (You were correct, I mistyped), but all the same the initial action was effortless for a midi-chlorian-less spirit.

Once he crushes Kun with little effort, he then taunts Vodo before assaulting him across the galaxy using the Force:

http://i6.tinypic.com/6696iqt.jpg

Vodo is absolutely helpless.

Next, he forces Kun to accept the Dark Side and heals him. You claim that Kun accepted the Dark Side and this act healed him (Which is not only a breach of Occam's Razor; it's entirely unprecedented in the series), but we can clearly see that Nadd is in control of the situation. As he tells Vodo, his power is on Kun. He controls his life at this point:

http://i8.tinypic.com/43ptwyf.jpg

Furthermore, he's were Nadd confirmed that the spirits of the ancient Sith somehow reflects their power in life as they have to use this power to "preserve" their spirits.

http://i1.tinypic.com/4u26k9w.jpg

Common sense dictates that a body without midi-chlorians is at a disadvantage compared to a living body; that only the level of remaining power in the spirit is what can make it better than a living Force user. Nadd was more powerful than Kun who was alive until the amulet turned things in his favor. He was also able to effortlessly kill Ommin using the Force, the same King Ommin who floored Arca Jeth with a single attack (Though to Ulic's credit, Ulic was capable of withstanding the same attack.)



There's never any indication that this is true. While it would make sense that being on Korriban would benefit Nadd, the extent to which it does is impossible to determine. Rather than chalk all credit up to Korriban's influence, it is better to conclude that Nadd's personal power is still considerable, as no other Sith spirit is shown attacking Jedi Masters across the galaxy, snuffing out powerful Force users, nor healing former Jedi completely.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Let's take a look at the source material again, LS:



Basically, it takes "little effort" for Freedon Nadd to shatter a "great" crystal which imprisoned Jedi spirits and unleash those energies into the cavern in a collapse which shatters Kun's entire body. He breaks a crystal meant to entrap many Jedi spirits with little effort, LS. He doesn't push a red button or shove a rock across a room with extreme effort.

To 'trigger the release' of energies? That happen to shatter the cave and destroy the crystal? Again, throwing a match on a fuse. Not a single source ever says Freedon Nadd himself is the one with enough power to stop that, Janus.

Note that: It is a matter of little effort to trigger the release of the force. This is a great feat of power? Reaching out and altering the energies of delicate alchemical constructions? This is gross misinterpretation. BUt in fairness, do find me a source that points to Nadd's own power causing the explosion. Not the energies he released.

On Korriban, able to draw power from there again, might I remind you.


If by 'little effort' you mean 'sits back and allows the boulders to crush him', then yes



Yeah, I'm really sure he expected to find Freedon Nadd's spirit hovering over his fallen apprentice on the world that's second to Lehon in power of 'Dark Side Nexus'. Yeah, I really see him able to pull this on Luke, or Yoda, or even Odan. Does Vodo even know 'Force Light?' It's a technique for dealing with Dark Side ghosts, recall.


No, it isn't. To my recollection, the Dark Side Sourcebook and the Essential guide to Characters claim the Dark Side itself heals Kun when he full accepts it.
And you'll notice the circumstances are remarkably unique

Through manipulations, nothing more.



Yes, I'm aware of the matter. However, that their spirits were preserved by their power means....precisely what? I'm not getting the conclusion you're trying to draw.



Nadd was more powerful than a gifted Padawan? You'll notice that isn't filling me with admiration for him.
Oh, and this the 'same King Ommin' who just had his life support destroyed and couldn't even move a finger? Nadd said it himself: Ommin belonged to the Dark Side-Nadd simply claimed the dying king's soul




If it weren't for the matter only one of those is completely true, then I'd be far more likely to believe it.

Nadd was a DLOTs, meaning his power was considerable. Would he stand against someone like Luke, Yoda, Palpatine or Revan? Somehow, I doubt it.
Again: considering Force Light is pretty damn useful for dealing with a Dark Side ghost...if Nadd even came into contact with Thon, he'd have found himself driven back with his tail between his legs (and Thon's been stated to know the power, hence his ability to cleanse Arkania)

And also? Considering we know Korriban does present quite a boost to the powers of Dark Siders, as well as its huge Dark Side aura, we can certainly conclude it's what allowed Nadd to lash out whatsoever-considering it's stated directly in the Freedon Nadd Uprising he's powerless in his present state.
Is Nadd a powerful SIth Lord? Undoubtedly. Can he hang with upper tiers like Luke, Palpatine, Yoda, Marka, DLOTS Exar, etc? Almost assuredly not. His knowledge in the Dark Side was lacking,, considering he failed to truly complete his educations in either the Jedi or Sith schools, a planet accepted him as their ruler based on the assumption of him being a God...

Curiously enough, his only impressive feats really occur after he's dead, on Korriban. Given what else we know, this doesn't seem like a coincidence

Btw, Janus, think you'll sign on MSN sometimes? I'm having one of my rare breaks today

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Lightsnake


Your vagueness is so convincing there. Words like 'somehow', and 'almost' really support an argument.

Lightsnake
I see the ability to decipher context escapes you.

Darth Sexy
I have a problem with certain plot holes. For starters, how can there be a crystal holding jedi exiles? If I recall correctly, the only "jedi" that were on korriban were the original dark Jedi who came there. After that, there were no Jedi on korriban until the ancient sith were long gone. This is yet another inconsistency.

Lightsnake
No it isn't.

Apparently the Sith fought back when the Jedi came to wipe them out.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Lightsnake
No it isn't.

Apparently the Sith fought back when the Jedi came to wipe them out.

What JEdi lightsnake? When did Jedi go to Korriban? I recall the second battle of Korriban or something that effectively wiped out the sith, but I don't remember anything about Jedi going over there. Furthermore, what "ancient sith" at this time could actually contend with a Jedi (judging by GAOTS). Those sith were pretty much useless. And if what you say is true, these weak sith were apparently not as weak as we suspect, especially if they can trap Jedi into crystals..

Lightsnake
I assume they landed on Korriban to continue the war...I can only assume the remaining Sith would put a lot at stake defending Korriban.

It's quite possibly they caught two Jedi in large groups, or any number of possibilities.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I see the ability to decipher context escapes you.

As does the ability to make a convincing argument escape you.

Darth Sexy
Wonderful comeback.. However, lightsnake's assertion is more correct than yours.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wonderful comeback.. However, lightsnake's assertion is more correct than yours. ...that and it's actually supported by facts.

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
As does the ability to make a convincing argument escape you.

I'd like to know if there is a particular reason you're being rude. Chances are, though, you'll just give me a rude answer.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Spartan ll
...that and it's actually supported by facts.

Really? Him saying Yoda, Luke, etc. could 'almost assuredly' beat Nadd is a FACT?

Wow, let me ask him all my SW unanswered questions since his word his canon.

The words almost assuredly and fact don't go together. It's just funny on this board that people will type and type paragraphs of facts then sneak their own opinion in like its one and the same with the facts. I'm just being subjective here. Stop being wimps.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Really? Him saying Yoda, Luke, etc. could 'almost assuredly' beat Nadd is a FACT?

Wow, let me ask him all my SW unanswered questions since his word his canon.

The words almost assuredly and fact don't go together. It's just funny on this board that people will type and type paragraphs of facts then sneak their own opinion in like its one and the same with the facts. I'm just being subjective here. Stop being wimps. Yeah, unlike your word, who's only purpose is to be an ignorant ass who questions another person's post that is based on facts(He even listed where he got his info from) yet don't bother to even make a counter argument against him, just insults.

Oohoo! What a big man you are! roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'd suggest that, yes, considering he has just about every new SW sourcebook(Which ARE canon, and are exactly what he's basing his argument on).

I don't know why he used almost, considering that Yoda and Luke are have shown repeatedly that they're leagues above what Nadd has done. Wimps? Considering you keep acting like a dick and saying that he's incorrect in his assessment(Which, again, is based off of facts), yet you don't have the balls to type one out to counter his and hide behind petty, ill-thought insults, I'd pretty much say that makes you the wimp, n00b.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Really? Him saying Yoda, Luke, etc. could 'almost assuredly' beat Nadd is a FACT?

Wow, let me ask him all my SW unanswered questions since his word his canon.

The words almost assuredly and fact don't go together. It's just funny on this board that people will type and type paragraphs of facts then sneak their own opinion in like its one and the same with the facts. I'm just being subjective here. Stop being wimps.
No, it's not fact, because nothing is absolute fact in regards to vs. matches between powerful fighters.

In it, we simply have to go with what sems the most likely or logical.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Spartan ll
Yeah, unlike your word, who's only purpose is to be an ignorant ass who questions another person's post that is based on facts(He even listed where he got his info from) yet don't bother to even make a counter argument against him, just insults.

Oohoo! What a big man you are! roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'd suggest that, yes, considering he has just about every new SW sourcebook(Which ARE canon, and are exactly what he's basing his argument on).

I don't know why he used almost, considering that Yoda and Luke are have shown repeatedly that they're leagues above what Nadd has done. Wimps? Considering you keep acting like a dick and saying that he's incorrect in his assessment(Which, again, is based off of facts), yet you don't have the balls to type one out to counter his and hide behind petty, ill-thought insults, I'd pretty much say that makes you the wimp, n00b.

lol. You really sound like a chick. I won't try to be subjective with you since you clearly have feminine reactions.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, it's not fact, because nothing is absolute fact in regards to vs. matches between powerful fighters.

In it, we simply have to go with what sems the most likely or logical.


What I was getting at is your argument was going pretty good before you said that. I'm not arguing the facts you brought up or anything like that, just how you were wording it. But you're acknowledging that there is a chance for unpredictability in a clash like that.... That's really all I was trying to get you to see(or say). I didn't think other people who weren't involved would get butthurt.

Gideon
What's wrong with saying that Yoda would "almost assuredly" defeat Freedon Nadd and consider it a fact? George Lucas said that you need to be 'Mace Windu or Yoda to compete with Palpatine', does that mean that no other Force user at the time could not overcome the Sith Lord in certain circumstances? Not really. Ergo, it would be absolutely foolish to say that Yoda would beat Nadd in every encounter, or vice versa, or saying that for anyone.

Darth Scythe
smh@the Kentucky education system.

Here it is, all spelled for you.

fact (fakt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2.
a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
Idiom:
in (point of) fact
In reality or in truth; actually.

Darth Sexy
Hey jackass, it's a FACT that Yoda is superior to Nadd. It is a fact that Yoda would beat Nadd. However, there's something known as "any given sunday".

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
lol. You really sound like a chick. I won't try to be subjective with you since you clearly have feminine reactions. So me agreeing with someone, whose post and assumptions was based on CANON sources and not overall stupidity and ignorance(Aka your posts), qualifies me as 'feminine'? You do realize that your above post makes you look like a retarded little child with an Internet connection(Not that your other posts haven't already proved that, mind you), right?

Ladies and gentlemen, I now present to you, the new GM N00baris!

Janus Marius
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Hey jackass, it's a FACT that Yoda is superior to Nadd. It is a fact that Yoda would beat Nadd. However, there's something known as "any given sunday".

I'm still curious under what valid arguments did you personally come at this conclusion, DS? I've heard LS' arguments (And noted them) but I'm curious as to what you have to say on Nadd versus Yoda. Please do me the favor of making actual structured argument instead of one to two sentence premises which are based on proof by assertion, your own opinion, or something you think LS said using sources only he has.

Please try that for me. Here, I'll make an example to help you along...

P1. Yoda is green.
P2. Everyone knows green is associated with St. Paddy's Day.
Cl. Yoda is Irish and probably drinks like a fish.

Now, that's not a perfect example, but hopefully you get the point. Instead of badgering people and riding on the coattails of more thorough and well-read debaters here, DS, I want you to prove up to me using logical structure in argument.

Darth Sexy
Yoda is a 900+ year old Jedi master, the grand master of the order. His mastery of the force was only rivaled by Sidious. He stalemated Sidious, who is at the best, the most powerful sith lord of this time, and at the worst, the greatest sith master to ever use sith evil, which puts him above Nadd. If I have to make an argument on why I think Sidious is above Nadd, then I will do so, although I doubt it is necessary. Nadd was definitely powerful, but to compare him to the likes of Yoda or Sidious would beg some serious proof on the part of Nadd. Yoda was a lightaber prodigy who happened to know 6 out of 7 forms of lightaber combat. You can sit here and tell me there are better debaters or well read debaters, but they would make the same argument.

FUrthermore, don't ridicule me by talking down to me and giving me examples of premises and conclusions, because I think I've proven that I know how to logically debate, even without the use or need of a class.

Janus Marius
Since it's quite apparent that you do need a class, let me demonstrate your argument in logical form.



Premise: Yoda is very old, and is the virtual head of the Jedi Order during a time when fighting Sith is unheard of.



Premise: The only person who seems to put up a strong challenge to Yoda is Sidious and Dooku, both of whom he fought and both of whom he was unable to overcome. Since he fought no other Sith Lords, we can only match him against these two.



Premise: Yoda was able to finally overcome Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord of the era, using the Force, but was eventually defeated because he put too much of his energy into countering his Sith Lightning and was unable to take the initiative despite being clearly superior to his opponent overall. Likewise, this same Sidious is only considered to be the most evil and powerful of the Sith by later historians nearly a generation later, when he has had more time to mature his Dark Side abilities and plenty of time to loot Jedi and Sith knowledge.



Premise: Yoda is shown to be familiar with the six major forms of lightsaber combat, as was General Grievous, and somehow this makes him able to contend with any Sith Lord in the world, including those shown only to utilize one style.

Conclusion: Yoda beats Nadd because he was able to put up a good fight against someone who twenty years later went on to become a real bonafide Sith Lord and not some weak little senator with a lightsaber up his sleeve and he knows a lot because he's old and knows the saber forms like any Jedi Master would, and he's never shown actually defeating a Sith Lord on neutral or otherwise situations.



No, the point here is that you are blatantly attacking others for sharing contrary beliefs and yet you lack the argument to support your own side, instead having to play "little dog" to all the big dogs who can actually debate their way out of a paper bag. You've proven my point by making this statement, DS. Your arguments = unproven, unsubstantiated opinion slinging.



You've never proved that you have logical thinking skills on par with anyone else here you attempt to bash, and certainly your lack of formal knowledge puts you at a recognizable and immediate disadvantage with people who have had a formal education on the topic of logic and reasoning. I've corrected you many, many times on terms you've abused, fallacies you've committed, and blatant bullshit you've perpetuated and yet you still claim you can hang with the big dogs when you haven't even taken a high school level logic class or read a book on proper argument structure. I bet you haven't even had a decent school debate on a topic with definate facts, have you?

When you enter into a field of something that you are admittedly not the expert in and then sling around stuff like you know what you're doing, it's ridiculous that anyone would take you seriously. You have no formal logic training, and you apparently lack the capacity to learn from your mistakes or at least properly fake it and Wiki the damn terms or faults in reasoning. I've had two years of formal and informal logic classes, including identifying fallacies, valid or sound argument structure, and I even have more experience in this subject matter and more sources than you do.

Me >>>>>> You in every single debate by virtue of my knowledge in the fields we're actually going over, and my training in the art of debate and arguing which you've apparently only ever studied here. This isn't saying I'm 100% right; it's simply saying that any time you make a claim and I make a claim, by virtue my claim is likely to be the more researched and logical one because I know what the hell I'm talking about, and you just spout off random shit you heard LS say or that you read on a KMC thread some time back.

So yeah, I think I'm entitled to lecture you just this once on your incredibly shitty debating skills which you've claimed time and again you're working to build up. If you were really interested in fair and progressive debating, you'd know how the basics work, for one. Two, you'd learn from those with classic training (myself, Nai, Illustrious, Faunus, Advent, etc.) and more experience. Three, you'd recognize when you've gone from making your point to just plain trolling and being an *******.

You've never demonstrated any of those three virtues, so yeah... No point in anyone listening to you. Unless you actually make an attempt to learn from your shallow-minded approach and make a change in your approach to debate, we should all just collectively ignore your inane posts.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Premise: The only person who seems to put up a strong challenge to Yoda is Sidious and Dooku, both of whom he fought and both of whom he was unable to overcome. Since he fought no other Sith Lords, we can only match him against these two.
It's funny how you mention this when you were the main proponent of the "ancient sith pwn all". All of a sudden you critisize others for the mistakes you are allowed to make. Since Yoda fought only 2 sith lords we can only match him against those 2? In that case, there is absolutely no purpose in having a versus forum then, since by your logic, we can only pit characters that have fought each other.




I don't think Grievous was a force user..


You know what's ironic? You haven't even made a case for Nadd. You sit there spitting out your "unknown" nonsense, but when the ancient sith are mentioned, suddenly they are chucking stars and wtfpwning all.




I love your ridiculous generalizing.
1. Blatantly means on a daily basis, please show me where I am CONSTANTLY do this. Until then shut the hell up. If you can't be civil, don't type.
2. Debate out of a paper bag huh? I guess that implies you can ignore sources in favor of your bias. Furthermore, calling my arguments (insert childish insult here), doesn't make it so. Because I have shown to make GREAT arguments, and not so great arguments. But due to your psuedointellecual, "I own internet text" mind, you seem to focus on the negative. I don't think you know the definition of constructive criticism.




Except I HAVE proven to be better than others, and worse than others, based on all the arguments. You can sit there and ***** and claim I haven't made a single logical argument, nor have defeated anyone in debates, and that would make you look ridiculous, unless you can show some proof. Furthermore, you are not exactly a credible debater in terms of objectivity, so I suggest you keep your snoody comments to yourself unless you can address me in a civil manner. Oh no Janus, I wasn't on the debate team, that MUST mean you are better than me, and you will get ahead of me in life (not likely).


Yet I can enter a debate objectively, while you have yet to do so.


That makes a lot of sense. When I make an argument, i'm somehow copying someone else. When you make an argument, it's your own because youre Janus. That's beautiful logic from a self proclaimed debating genius.


Being an internet douchebag because you have to overcompensate for real life doesn't give you the temerity to lecture me. If you were a 100% logical and objective debater, you can spout of your pseudologic/words of wisdom. You should be lucky I even try to learn from the better debaters on this forum instead of sitting online with a chip on my shoulder because I'm not satisfied with my life. If you can lecture me in a civil manner, go ahead and do so. Until then shut the hell up, because you're not impressing anyone with any of your abilities other than shooting off text in the form of a douchebag.



Except I have, and you acknowledge it once already in my argument with Glentract on your forum. If I didn't "cover the points well", I wouldn't have demonstrated these virtues. So instead of being an ignorant jackass who deals and absolutes, try to focus on the positives, and give constructive criticism on the negatives..


What I don't understand is, why I have to sit there and defend Yoda in a fight against Nadd. You don't see anyone having to logically debate R2 vs. a Jedi? Certain things are obvious if you opened your eyes and started viewing these topics objectively. Here you have Nadd who did... Oh right, conquer a backwater planet and.. Oh that's about it. I guess that somehow puts him on the level of the most powerful Jedi up to Luke.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Since it's quite apparent that you do need a class, let me demonstrate your argument in logical form.



Premise: Yoda is very old, and is the virtual head of the Jedi Order during a time when fighting Sith is unheard of.
Yes. The absolute same as many of those in the KOTOR order-the timeframes are exactly the same.
Neither Yoda nor Vodo's orders had fought Sith in a millenium, rather exactly-though we know they have indeed fought Sith here and there, without knowledge-though Yoda himself knows of the Rule of Two, implying confrontations at points.

There are two people in Vodo's Order who have battled Sith: Odan and Thon.


Yoda is unquestionably strongest and better than Dooku-both battles ended with Dooku fleeing.
And considering the power and ability of both those Sith Lords, Yoda's rivaling them is a feather in his cap



He's also considered the most powerful Sith at the point he defeated Yoda, recall.




Generally mastering many forms is indication of a very skilled duelist-Grievous certainly was, evidenced by the many Jedi he killed and defeating Durge and Ventress simultaneously (Clone Wars Adventures Vol. 3)

Dooku running away with his tail between his legs-along with, I quote "Realizing he is not the strongest after all"- isn't a victory?

And a 'weak little Senator?' Really, Janus, this Palpatine bias has got to end. That 'weak little senator:
A. Killed three Jedi Council members at once
B. Was said by Lucas that only Mace and Yoda could compete with him. Not Depa, not Dooku, Not Anakin, Not Obi-wan, Not A'Sharad or T'ra Saa, or Kit Fisto, or Plo Koon, or Asajj Ventress, or Durge, or General Grievous or Zett Jukasa.
C. That weak little senator is described as having lightsaber skills that left MAUL-you know, the guy who made one of the finest swordsmen in the Jedi Order realize he couldn't win within seconds, the Maul whose saber skills saw an army of the galaxy's deadly assassins devastated completely- totally dazzled and outmatched? The same weak little senator who was able to wield his saber faster than Maul could even see and felt with a TWITCH in deviation, Maul would be in pieces
D. Same weak little senator able to compete with Yoda, described as the most powerful force of light the galaxy had ever seen and most powerful foe the Darkness had ever known?
E. Let's not neglect by ROTS, he's described as having already clandestinely visited numerous Dark Side worlds that increased his powers with what he's learned, under the guise of restoration of art has tracked down incalculable amounts of Sith knowledge and artifacts, and is able to summon the spirits of the Ancient Sith and bind them to his will for purposes of rituals and extracting their forgotten knowledge (Ultimate Visual Guide thankfully brought 'Sithisis' into continuity, and chalk him up as having mastered Sith lightning)

So, really...say you've noted it, but the irritating bias needs to end

Palpatine is many times the Sith Lord Nadd was, as evidenced by the fact he wasn't a spoiled little brat whose fall to the Dark Side equates to a hissy fit on his masters when they feel he's too immature and headstrong to become a Master and...petty dictatorship of a backwater planet without even the benefit of space travel, unable to beat a guerilla rebellion of non-Force Users (Quote from NEC: "Forming a band of light upon Onderon that even Nadd's dark powers couldn't crush."

IF you're saying that to piss DS off? Fine. If that's really a premise you hold? Color me a bit annoyed since I've quite politely challenged it a few times in the past month without even a response. I understand and respect you haven't had time to respond to them, but honestly...

I realize the entire purpose of that was to chastise DS and I don't disagree with that. Chalk it up to me being a little tired, but I did sort of snap on that, and if you take it as me being a bit too vicious, I apologize in advance

Darth Sexy
Gosh lightsnake, I'm glad you don't disagree with me being chastized. You are truly a great wingman. However, instead of verbally fellating people to avoid conflict, I suggest you make your views more known and voice your displeasure in a serious manner.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Spartan ll
So me agreeing with someone, whose post and assumptions was based on CANON sources and not overall stupidity and ignorance(Aka your posts), qualifies me as 'feminine'? You do realize that your above post makes you look like a retarded little child with an Internet connection(Not that your other posts haven't already proved that, mind you), right?

Ladies and gentlemen, I now present to you, the new GM N00baris!

Only teenagers and grown men who still live with their parents call people n00b. All you're doing is insulting at this point, and doing a bad job of it. I have no interest in engaging in a flame-fest with a 40 year old virgin. I'd rather not have mods breathing down my neck.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Hey jackass, it's a FACT that Yoda is superior to Nadd. It is a fact that Yoda would beat Nadd. However, there's something known as "any given sunday".

More namecalling... Mature. You might want to rethink your jackass comment since you did contradict yourself in that post there smartguy.

Feel free to come up with proof of this 'fact' of yours though.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Only teenagers and grown men who still live with their parents call people n00b. All you're doing is insulting at this point, and doing a bad job of it. I have no interest in engaging in a flame-fest with a 40 year old virgin. I'd rather not have mods breathing down my neck. Really? And I suppose you consider yourself the best source for this information? And you haven't been doing that since posting in this thread? Wow, not only are you stupid n00b, but a hypocrite aswell. I only praise LS assessment(Because it's a hell of a lot more intelligent than your sorry excuses of insults), and then you start calling me names, and claim I was the one insulting you at this point. Doing a bad job of it? Please. Don't get my insults confused with your shoddy, sorry excuses of insults. Atleast I actually have the balls to back mine up. Tell me, were you just born stupid, or are you good at acting like it? I'm guessing the earlier, since judging by the majority of your posts in this thread, you seem to take a like to making a complete ass out of yourself.

Darth Scythe
You're not even arguing over the original topic, just taking little shots. There's no need to address you at this point.

Violent2Dope
Darth Scythe is wrong on the grounds he is an idiot. That is all.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
You're not even arguing over the original topic, just taking little shots. There's no need to address you at this point. In other words, you can dish it out, but aren't man enough to take it.


@Violent2Dope: Pretty much sums it up, right there.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Darth Scythe is wrong on the grounds he is an idiot. That is all.

You're an Insane Clown Posse fan. You're already wrong at life. ****outtahere.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Spartan ll
In other words, you can dish it out, but aren't man enough to take it.



You're missing the point, but whatever you say.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
You're missing the point, but whatever you say. What point? The point that you started an argument with me(All because I supported someone's post that was based on factual sources), called me a woman and a 40 year old virgin, then accused me of calling you names first, and showed yourself to be nothing more than a hypocritical ass?

That seems like 'the point', to me.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
You're an Insane Clown Posse fan. You're already wrong at life. ****outtahere. This will really change mine and anyone elses opinion about you.roll eyes (sarcastic) I may like ICP, but my intelligence still greatly surpasses yours, who can't debate for a shit and resorts to flaming.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
You're an Insane Clown Posse fan. You're already wrong at life. ****outtahere.

Now your insulting somone over there name and music preference in a star wars topic. WTF is the point in that.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Spartan ll
What point? The point that you started an argument with me(All because I supported someone's post that was based on factual sources), called me a woman and a 40 year old virgin, then accused me of calling you names first

Really? I thought I called you that after you called me a 'n00b'. Right? Right.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
This will really change mine and anyone elses opinion about you.roll eyes (sarcastic) I may like ICP, but my intelligence still greatly surpasses yours, who can't debate for a shit and resorts to flaming.

Debating? I told someone he wasn't convincing. I don't remember being part of the Freedon Nadd debate. I wasn't flaming anyone until like 4 of you who I wasn't even addressing came out of nowhere and decided to get all butthurt. So me not being able to 'debate for a shit' isn't a valid statement. But, alas, my original was directed at Lightsnake and we had our exchange. The rest of you are just crying for my attention. Who else is going to come out of the woodwork next and get some e-courage?



For the record, anyone who listens to ICP will never be smarter than me. Ever.

Faunus
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Who else is going to come out of the woodwork next and get some e-courage?*raises hand tentatively*

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Debating? I told someone he wasn't convincing. I don't remember being part of the Freedon Nadd debate. I wasn't flaming anyone until like 4 of you who I wasn't even addressing came out of nowhere and decided to get all butthurt. So me not being able to 'debate for a shit' isn't a valid statement. But, alas, my original was directed at Lightsnake and we had our exchange. The rest of you are just crying for my attention. Who else is going to come out of the woodwork next and get some e-courage?



For the record, anyone who listens to ICP will never be smarter than me. Ever. You were debating with LS, don't deny it. You flamed Spartan first, he just said he agreed with LS' argument supported with facts dumbass. I only said sumthin when you proved your stupidity. You can't debate for shit, fact. And you clearly know nothing about ICP, they have an excellent message that was well thought out and presented in a creative way. I don't care if you don't like ICP, but assuming that my intelligence is lower than yours by musical preference proves your stupidity.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Really? I thought I called you that after you called me a 'n00b'. Right? Right. Before that, you also called us all 'wimps', because we didn't agree with you insulting Lightsnake and not siding with you. Right? Right.

YOU initiated it, I finished it. Right? Right.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
I don't care if you don't like ICP, but assuming that my intelligence is lower than yours by musical preference proves your stupidity.

I gonna have to agree with that statement. (and i don't even like ICP) That's like saying that because someone can play or listens to something like bluegrass music a complete hick and is retarded.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
you clearly know nothing about ICP, they have an excellent message that was well thought out and presented in a creative way.

LOL. I can't take you serious after that.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Spartan ll
Before that, you also called us all 'wimps', because we didn't agree with you insulting Lightsnake and not siding with you. Right? Right.


Now your typing is emulating me? smh. But why would I care which one of you sides with me? Thats some chick shit. Clearly the way you band together to defend someone other than yourself gauges indicates how much you care who is on who's side. One speaks and all of a sudden everyone's brave.

Darth Scythe
Originally posted by Darth Hord
I gonna have to agree with that statement.

Speak English.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Speak English.

Now you are going to criticize me for making a typo and using slang? Wow you must like having alot of people against you because you certainly seem to be doing a good job of it.

Violent2Dope
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
LOL. I can't take you serious after that. And I can't take an arrogant ass like you serious when you flame people and blame the flame wars you started on others you stupid pig-headed cvnt.

Spartan ll
Originally posted by Darth Scythe
Now your typing is emulating me? smh. But why would I care which one of you sides with me? Thats some chick shit. Clearly the way you band together to defend someone other than yourself gauges indicates how much you care who is on who's side. One speaks and all of a sudden everyone's brave. Don't know. I wasn't the one calling everyone 'wimps' and picking fights I knew I couldn't win, remember?

Nope. I was just agreeing with his post, when YOU attacked me(Most likely because I didn't agree with your petty insults and you not providing ANY sort of argument whatsoever). The only thing I'm defending is myself, though IMO, I think it's pretty ignorant that you attacked him without provocation and don't even bother to provide a post that somehow(But VERY unlikely) proves his assessment wrong.

Gideon
Jesus, people, calm down with the flaming before Rex dropkicks a ban on your ass(es).

Captain REX
Stay on topic, folks, and keep it civil.

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