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I was just reading the most recent Wired Magazine, and they had an article that made me think of this.

Over the past couple years starting in about 2000, manga has steadily surpassed American comics in sales in both the U.S. and in many countries abroad. This has resulted in slumping U.S. comic sales and soaring profits for manga companies. I'm curious to see how the fans of American comics view the phenomenon, and your views on why it has taken place.

Is this really needed here?

Originally posted by Akuki
I was just reading the most recent Wired Magazine, and they had an articel that made me think of this.

Over the past couple years starting in about 2000, manga has steadily surpassed American comics in sales in both the U.S. and in many countries abroad. This has resulted in slumping U.S. comic sales and soaring profits for manga companies. I'm curious to see how the fans of American comics view the phenomenon, and your views on why it has taken place. Well it most likely takes place because let's face it Manga/Anime has become the new popular children media.

With that Children aren't growing up watching Batman or Superman anymore they are watching Naruto, and other such shows therefore what would they want to read about.

What they watch more or what they watch less.

We sell manga where I work and in the last two years I think we've sold like six volumes (books? TPB?).

I think kids need it beaten out of them.

.

I don't like Manga.
Or Anime.

Originally posted by Switch 07
Is this really needed here?
it's a serious question. I'm curious how fans of American comics view the trend, since it's had plenty of impacts on the American Comic industry as well, from the negative of slumping sales to the positive of having companies like Borders starting to stock comics in their own section, and of course the copycat efforts like Marvel mangaverse.


Personally i credit the change to the fact that anime has really taken over as the dominant form of cartoons on television, and to be honest not all that mny people enjoy wading through all the canon to read about comic book characters.

Originally posted by Bransolute
I don't like Manga.
Or Anime.



Good for you.

Originally posted by Bransolute
I don't like Manga.
Or Anime.



Co-signed.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Good for you. Thank you.

Originally posted by Bransolute
I don't like Manga.
Or Anime.

Same.

Originally posted by Bransolute
I don't like Manga.
Or Anime.


Sure it's your choice. But do you think the change in most kids atitudes is a result of smart decisions by the manga industry or more a result of bad ones by the comics industry, or a combination of both?

Originally posted by Switch 07
Same.
What are you thinking of when you think of manga though? Naruto and DBZ or the kickass seinens like Hellsing?

Man I hate all that crap that is on T.V now a days.

(AKA Anime. It reminds me why its good to not be a child anymore)

Originally posted by Akuki
What are you thinking of when you think of manga though? Naruto and DBZ or the kickass seinens like Hellsing? All of them.

Originally posted by Switch 07
Man I hate all that crap that is on T.V now a days.

(AKA Anime. It reminds me why its good to not be a child anymore)
You do realize that just about all the anime's on t.v. are aimed for 8-12 year olds?

Originally posted by Bransolute
I don't like Manga.
Or Anime.


I used to watch Dragon Ball Z.

I don't anymore.

Originally posted by Akuki
You do realize that just about all the anime's on t.v. are aimed for 8-12 year olds? Not Afro Samaria.

Meh. Half of them are. Things like Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo are often considered both shonen and seinen.

Y'all are haters.

Look at it from this point of view.

They've been selling comics for the last 70 odd years. Let the new kid have a chance. Secondly, don't watch any dubbed anime...well maybe watch Cowboy Bebop. Nothing else though. Everything else go with Subbed, MUCH MUCH better.

Originally posted by grey fox
Y'all are haters.

Look at it from this point of view.

They've been selling comics for the last 70 odd years. Let the new kid have a chance. Secondly, don't watch any dubbed anime...well maybe watch Cowboy Bebop. Nothing else though. Everything else go with Subbed, MUCH MUCH better.
Cowboy Bebop had an amazing voice cast. Probably the best dub I've heard yet.

Originally posted by Soljer
Meh. Half of them are. Things like Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo are often considered both shonen and seinen. I have no idea what you just said...

Originally posted by Bransolute
I have no idea what you just said...

Shonen= aimed for young boys
Seinen=aimed at older teens to college students

Originally posted by Bransolute
I have no idea what you just said...

Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and Samurai Champloo are some anime series that come on US television.

Shonen is manga specifically aimed at children - like Dragonball Z

Seinen is manga aimed at 'college-age' guys.

Or, at least, I think that's it.

What the HELL happened to my post?

Originally posted by Soljer
What the HELL happened to my post? Judge?

good anime (cowboy bebop) is far superior to marvel/dc cartoons.

however I don't like reading manga at all.

Originally posted by Bransolute
I have no idea what you just said...

Ok .

Shonen - Young Boys Manga , like 8-14 year olds. This is stuff like DBZ, Naruto , One Piece ect. Thats why themes of friendship and heroism are often prevalent . As well as 'beating the evil' out of bad-guys. Because of Japans differing culture however it is usually more perverted, violent and curse filled then what could be considered 'kids shows' over here.

Seinen - Adult Male Manga, this can range from Novel esq stuff (Death Note) to pornographic pieces. usually differs from the above by different writing style and titles.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Judge?

Looks like it just translated the Category: Shonen as the smilie. ":s"

OK I am now confused by all the talk of manga and anime.

Originally posted by Switch 07
OK I am now confused by all the talk of manga and anime.

Manga - Book format

Anime - Animated format of previous Books format.

Originally posted by Bransolute
I think I get it... one more time though please.

Well in comics terms, power pack would be Shonen, and the Authority would be Seinen.

I don know, I despise Naruto, and the kind, people need to watch more Bruce Timm, but meh, I'd rather kids be reading Superman than any manga...

Originally posted by Akuki

Well in comics terms, power pack would be Shonen, and the Authority would be Seinen.

Except powerpack would have more explosions, spikier hair, swearing and lots of porn all over teh interwebs.

Authority would just feature porn segments at the the back of the manga.

Originally posted by grey fox
Except powerpack would have more explosions, spikier hair, swearing and lots of porn all over teh interwebs.

Authority would just feature porn segments at the the back of the manga.
True after all, just about all the characters from Hellsing come from earlier pornographic comics made by the author.

Originally posted by Akuki
True after all, just about all the characters from Hellsing come from earlier pornographic comics made by the author.



I's funny because it's true, although the artwork is surprisingly consistent throughout.

Originally posted by grey fox
Except powerpack would have more explosions, spikier hair, swearing and lots of porn all over teh interwebs.

Authority would just feature porn segments at the the back of the manga.

Compelling argument in favor of manga.

More pornographic material .

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
I don know, I despise Naruto, and the kind, people need to watch more Bruce Timm, but meh, I'd rather kids be reading Superman than any manga...

Why do you hate Naruto ?

Originally posted by Soljer
Compelling argument in favor of manga.

More pornographic material .



Originally posted by grey fox
Why do you hate Naruto ?

Think of a cliche. Any cliche.

Originally posted by grey fox
Why do you hate Naruto ?


all i've seen is the dubbed cartoon, and I can't even sit through an episode...........

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
I don know, I despise Naruto, and the kind, people need to watch more Bruce Timm, but meh, I'd rather kids be reading Superman than any manga...
But when was the last time Superman had any sort of decent storyline?

Originally posted by Akuki
I was just reading the most recent Wired Magazine, and they had an article that made me think of this.

Over the past couple years starting in about 2000, manga has steadily surpassed American comics in sales in both the U.S. and in many countries abroad. This has resulted in slumping U.S. comic sales and soaring profits for manga companies. I'm curious to see how the fans of American comics view the phenomenon, and your views on why it has taken place.

Is this even true? When ever I look at sales charts Marvel and DC are waaaaaaay a head of Viz and Tokyopop

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Is this even true? When ever I look at sales charts Marvel and DC are waaaaaaay a head of Viz and Tokyopop

I thought the same when I first came in the thread.

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
all i've seen is the dubbed cartoon, and I can't even sit through an episode...........

From the people I've talked to manga fans can basically divided into people who love naruto and absolutely despise it. I happen to be one of those who absolutely despises it.

A request.

Can anyone give me a link to that AWESOME fight between the purple haired boy and the blond boy in Naruto.

I saw it once and it f*cking pwned.

Wasn't ridiculously powerful people like in DBZ and was still better than any fight they had.

Originally posted by Akuki
From the people I've talked to manga fans can basically divided into people who love naruto and absolutely despise it. I happen to be one of those who absolutely despises it.

The Naruto anime is a piece of crap like almost every anime based of a shonen manga. The manga was good for about two volumes when it first came out 1999, now it just isn't bad.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Is this even true? When ever I look at sales charts Marvel and DC are waaaaaaay a head of Viz and Tokyopop
I'm getting most of my information from the article, but they stated that manga accounted for 2/3rds of sales of graphic novel type comics in the U.S. currently.

Originally posted by Capt Spaulding
all i've seen is the dubbed cartoon, and I can't even sit through an episode...........

Poor Bastard, check out the subbed eps. Their actually good Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos




Think of a cliche. Any cliche.

Tch, Naruto isn't that...full......of...cli- *looks at New Chapter*

Holy shit you may be right !Originally posted by Akuki
From the people I've talked to manga fans can basically divided into people who love naruto and absolutely despise it. I happen to be one of those who absolutely despises it.

I don't 'love it' its a decent series but Hellsing shits all over it.

Originally posted by Akuki
I'm getting most of my information from the article, but they stated that manga accounted for 2/3rds of sales of graphic novel type comics in the U.S. currently. Willrules probably makes the other half.

Originally posted by Switch 07
A request.

Can anyone give me a link to that AWESOME fight between the purple haired boy and the blond boy in Naruto.

I saw it once and it f*cking pwned.

Wasn't ridiculously powerful people like in DBZ and was still better than any fight they had.

Hair color doesn't narrow down characters much in anime . . .

Originally posted by Switch 07
A request.

Can anyone give me a link to that AWESOME fight between the purple haired boy and the blond boy in Naruto.

I saw it once and it f*cking pwned.

Wasn't ridiculously powerful people like in DBZ and was still better than any fight they had.

Sasuke and Naruto ?

Be difficult, simply because youtube is choc-a-bloc full of shitty AMV's made from it. I'll try though .

2006 Comic Sales

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/2006_year_end.html

Originally posted by grey fox
Sasuke and Naruto ?

Be difficult, simply because youtube is choc-a-bloc full of shitty AMV's made from it. I'll try though . Thanks.

A ninja interrupted at the end I think and the blond one made clones of himself. On a roof I think it happened.

Ok. The full fight is dragged out through three eps. So I got the 'best' part that I could.

TJ0Ak6HJMnU

A little background for those that don't know.

Purple Hair kid (Sasuke) is attempting to flee his village and join up with uber-badguy Orochimaru. Naruto (Blond haired kid) is trying to stop him. Naruto has a Demon of extreme power sealed within him and can tap it's power for ampage.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
2006 Comic Sales

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/2006_year_end.html

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6310396.html

$145 million out of $245 million from manga.

Originally posted by Switch 07
Thanks.

A ninja interrupted at the end I think and the blond one made clones of himself. On a roof I think it happened.


The roof fight ? Heh , that sucks in comparison to this .

3 episodes?

Holy shit.

Originally posted by grey fox
The roof fight ? Heh , that sucks in comparison to this .



Thanks.

Hah I found it once I found out their names.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiT4QvR_nKo

I need to watch the best one.

Shit , noticed that it's an AMV , sorry 'bout that . Seems whoever made it at least understood to keep the dialogue in.

Originally posted by grey fox
Shit , noticed that it's an AMV , sorry 'bout that . Seems whoever made it at least understood to keep the dialogue in. I thought it was a little weird but so far its making some sense to me. lol

fight scenes in anime are about 1000x better than fight scenes in american cartoons

Originally posted by grey fox
Ok. The full fight is dragged out through three eps. So I got the 'best' part that I could.

TJ0Ak6HJMnU

A little background for those that don't know.

Purple Hair kid (Sasuke) is attempting to flee his village and join up with uber-badguy Orochimaru. Naruto (Blond haired kid) is trying to stop him. Naruto has a Demon of extreme power sealed within him and can tap it's power for ampage.

Argh... that is a whole lot of crappy nu-metal in a 9 minute video.

That was an aswome fight, too bad the ending was missing. Oh well. If the rest of the Naruto had the same animation quality as that I might actually watch it... but it doesn't, so stick with the manga I say.

It's a lot easier to get into and just start reading a manga, than it is to start reading a comic. Most Manga have been published for a year or maybe two, most comics have been out for like 20 years. I suppose manga are a lot more appealing to new readers....

That and manga kicks ass, there art doesn't change as much and new writers won't come in and mess up everything. Hardly any retcons either.

Can't even begin to compare cartoons to actual, proper Anime.

Originally posted by grey fox
Except powerpack would have more explosions, spikier hair, swearing and lots of porn all over teh interwebs.

Authority would just feature porn segments at the the back of the manga.

I've got some of that

Originally posted by llagrok
It's a lot easier to get into and just start reading a manga, than it is to start reading a comic. Most Manga have been published for a year or maybe two, most comics have been out for like 20 years. I suppose manga are a lot more appealing to new readers....

I would say the opposite is actually true...

You can pick up the beginning of almost ANY new arc of Spiderman and not need too much explanation. If you tried to just go and get a random chapter of a manga, you'd be lost bigger than shit.

Originally posted by Soljer
I would say the opposite is actually true...

You can pick up the beginning of almost ANY new arc of Spiderman and not need too much explanation. If you tried to just go and get a random chapter of a manga, you'd be lost bigger than shit.

Yeah, that's true.

But there are normally a lot more unknown characters in comics. I remember when I picked up Crisis on infinite earths a couple of years back. Hardly knew about anyone besides Superman, girl and the batster.

Also, it's a lot easier to actually read everything involving a certain manga character.

Originally posted by Soljer
I would say the opposite is actually true...

You can pick up the beginning of almost ANY new arc of Spiderman and not need too much explanation. If you tried to just go and get a random chapter of a manga, you'd be lost bigger than shit.

I'm not sure about that. In a story where the main plot is "I want to be the best *insert random title here* so now I'm going to go and fight people for 200 chapters" it doesn't really matter when you jump in.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not sure about that. In a story where the main plot is "I want to be the best *insert random title here* so now I'm going to go and fight people for 200 chapters" it doesn't really matter when you jump in.

But that's a shitty story no matter how you slice it.

Originally posted by llagrok
Yeah, that's true.

But there are normally a lot more unknown characters in comics. I remember when I picked up Crisis on infinite earths a couple of years back. Hardly knew about anyone besides Superman, girl and the batster.

Also, it's a lot easier to actually read everything involving a certain manga character.
There's also the fact that with manga there's always a definite and easily accesible starting point for the story, you just have to pick up the first volume. In the case of comics for many long running characters there is no real starting point to start reading about a character.

Originally posted by Akuki
it's a serious question.

I think the question was more directed at the placement, not the intent. We do have an anime/manga forum.

It's the obvious "familiarity breeds contempt" phenomenon.

American people are obsessed with Japanese culture just like Japanese people are obsessed with American culture.

Originally posted by grey fox
Y'all are haters.

Look at it from this point of view.

They've been selling comics for the last 70 odd years. Let the new kid have a chance. Secondly, don't watch any dubbed anime...well maybe watch Cowboy Bebop. Nothing else though. Everything else go with Subbed, MUCH MUCH better.
Outlaw Star is significantly better dubbed.

well this is a difficult question. as far as ANIMATION goes. most anime beats western toons handsdown. no contest there. but manga i dunno.
it certainly is unique and different. and it has its place. but western comics have also gotten quite good ever since graphic novels etc came into play. n vertigo/gaiman etc have no equals. so i dunno. i think they shud both exist.

Because the manga market is more open ended than comics. It's very easy to find various genre's available on the mainstream market. Compare that to the mordern U.S. market that has the big two which only delve in sci-fi or heroes. It becomes too much of a niche market. Comics had variety back in the day, but nowadays forget it. The highest selling comic nowadays will sell over 100,000 copies now a days versus a popular manga like One Piece which will sell 100 million copies. It's no contest, besides most comic readership fell during the 90's.

Furthermore, you get more bang for your buck. An issue of shonen jump comes with 5-6 different comics and cost 5$, and is even cheaper in japan. That's 100+ pages for five bucks, easy. Comics is like 2.99 for 23 pages. Then there's the fact that manga has a faster distribution time since it comes out once a week versus comicss which come out every month. This is due to the time it takes to color; So, if you don't like Black & White format then read a comic instead. Back issues are cheaper versus comics and Manga is pretty much like Graphic Novels in terms of how they are made. No artist or writer of the week experimenting on your character. I mean, if you like to see different writers and artist work on characters. That's entirely fine, but you have to remember that it's at the cost of consistency.

Originally posted by leonheartmm

it certainly is unique and different. and it has its place. but western comics have also gotten quite good ever since graphic novels etc came into play. n vertigo/gaiman etc have no equals. so i dunno. i think they shud both exist.

Vertigo is great, but I don't think that's the question

Originally posted by leonheartmm
well this is a difficult question. as far as ANIMATION goes. most anime beats western toons handsdown. no contest there. but manga i dunno.
There are a couple Western cartoons that I think you can compare favorably to anime.

US comic book heroes are frustrating, imo. I shouldn't have to explain to my friend why one minute Spidermans beating Firelord, then the next minute he loses to Captain America

Though Deadpool > Any anime/manga character ever created.